AOU, Changing bird names

[Robert Righter]

Hi:

I would hope the American Ornithological Union would pause before changing common names of birds that are named after historic ornithologists as that could be divisive . Currently we are living in a period of time where accusations of racism are rampant and consequently we are currently judging past historic figures based on our current definition of how racist they may have been. This is how history becomes distorted and historic individuals unfortunately become misjudged. Let’s wait a decade or so and revisit the topic again when hopefully our lenses are clearer, less tainted. Why are we in such the rush to change the common names of birds that have been established for centuries. We all need to take a deep breath or two and wait to see what transpires.

Bob Righter

Denver, CO

[T. Luke George]

I don't think the definitions of how racist some of these ornithologists may have been will change now that they have exposed. Best to rip off the bandaid and move on. Below are Sibley's thoughts.

“As I’ve learned more about eponymous bird names over the last year, it’s become clear that these names carry a lot of baggage,” Sibley said. “If we cringe a little bit when we say or hear a bird’s name, that’s a barrier to communication. … It’s different from the free and uncomplicated flow of information that we can have when we talk about the Surf Scoter, or Warbling Vireo or Yellow Warbler.”

Sibley said that implementing a raft of name changes in field guides and other birding references will require a lot of time and adjustment, but it’s eminently doable: “The hardest part will probably be convincing the birding community that this is worth the trouble. Education will be key to that. It’s a small step in the big landscape of racial and social injustice, but I think it’s important and definitely worth doing.”

Luke George

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"what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" Mary Oliver

[Evan Wilder]

Robert,

What if we instead consider this issue from the perspective of an ever-evolving scientific community? We failed to acknowledge the destructive effects of colonialism and racism in the past, but we have a chance to improve upon that now. If we choose to “pause” our evolution now, when might it be more prudent to resume?

It's undeniable that America's history has been fraught with racism. This effort by the AOS specifically shines a light on the colonial disparities that saturated the 19th century. I will quote below a paragraph from the AOS's full report on the naming decision.

"A disproportionate number of eponyms were coined in the American West in the mid-1800s. One member of the committee found that, of the 78 eponyms in Tier 1 [the first wave of names being analyzed], 62% are from the West, primarily the Southwest; 77% of these were named between 1825 and 1875. Prior to that time and place, eponyms were relatively rare: Only 9 of the potentially 78 eponyms in Tier 1 were named before 1825. The eponyms from the American West largely honor and were conferred by “soldier scientists” traveling with the U.S. Army during the Mexican-American War and various Indian wars."

Since the American Ornithological Society published extensively about its decisions, let me bring a few more of their points into the conversation. Quoted segments are from the same report quoted above.

• Eponymous names are poor descriptors. Names that describe the bird (e.g., Spotted Sandpiper, Red-breasted Nuthatch), its habitat (e.g., Marsh Wren, Pinyon Jay), its range (e.g. Eastern Wood-Pewee, Mexican Chickadee), or something else about the species (e.g., Fish Crow, Northern Mockingbird) convey more information.
• Alternative methods of naming nature that do not imply ownership should be used. Eponyms, bestowed as honors and awards to specific people, not only ignore and conceal attributes of birds, they imply ownership or possession of an entire species by one human.
  
• We must also ask ourselves whose history we are commemorating through this list of names. Equating these names with the history of ornithology, or implying that ornithological history will be lost with the changing of these names, disregards the contributions and knowledge of populations that are not represented.
  
• Instability from such accepted name changes is regularly tolerated and expected across users of bird names.Name changes occur annually, and dozens of name changes occurred in 1957 and 1973 (American Ornithologists’ Union 1957, Eisenmann et al. 1973).
  

Many eponymous bird names came about by being the first white man to "discover" the species and codify the name within standard scientific taxonomy, which has historically been overseen by white men as well. The natural history and scientific history of birds goes well beyond this homogeneous approach, and maintaining our current naming system diminishes the role of birds in America's pre-colonial past – and the role of indigenous peoples in caring for them and their habitats.

Thank you for your time.

- Evan

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 3:28 PM Robert Righter <rori...@earthlink.net> wrote:

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[Bonnie Morgan]

why aren't we worried about renaming birds named for women's body parts?

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[Mel Goff]

It could be David Sibley just wants to sell more field guides with the new names. 😉

 

Mel Goff

Colorado Springs

 

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[Susan Rosine]

Let's face it -- a lot of bird names are stupid in general. They are not descriptive. 

So, don't just get rid of white men's names ------

Junco - Spanish for reed. ?????

Mallard -- old French/English for Drake ?????

Wren -- who knows? Haha

Loon -- they aren't crazy (haha)

Waterthrushes are Warblers. Fix that. 

***WOMEN - how do you feel about Ruby-crowned Kinglet? The female is not ruby-crowned! And what about:

Red-Winged Blackbird

Ring-necked Pheasant

Red Crossbill

Brown-headed Cowbird

Chestnut-collared Longspur

Purple Finch

Rose-breasted Grosbeak

American Redstart

Hooded Warbler

Black-throated Blue Warbler

And on, and on, and on. 

If AOS REALLY wants to be inclusive, and not offend anyone, how about we stop offending half of the human population?

Done with my rant. Probably.

Susan Rosine

Brighton

[nic korte]

As an old guy lucky enough to go birding now and then with some 20-somethings…they are very passionate about this.   They are the future. 

 (I agree with Kenn Kaufman, however, the loss of an honorific such as Parker’s Antbird, would seem wrong. Besides, some of those families are so similar that meaningful descriptive names are impossible.)

Nic Korte

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On Nov 2, 2023, at 7:47 PM, Susan Rosine <u5b2...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Susan Rosine]

Serious question -- are there people who actually cringe? I have African and American Indian ancestors, and I've never cringed. I've also never looked up these men and read all about them. Just some dude named Wilson or Steller or McCown or Townsend. Oh wait, I am related to Townsend, so I do know a bit about him. (yeah yeah he wasn't perfect, I know).

I care more about the birds, and saving them (we've lost BILLIONS since I was a little girl) than getting their name changed to be acceptable to humans. It just seems like there are way, way more important things than a bird's name. 

What if they changed Wilson's Warbler to Black-capped Warbler? Hardly fair to the female. Shouldn't that make me cringe as a woman?

Susan Rosine

Brighton 

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 4:27 PM T. Luke George <t.luke...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think the definitions of how racist some of these ornithologists may have been will change now that they have exposed. Best to rip off the bandaid and move on. Below are Sibley's thoughts.

“As I’ve learned more about eponymous bird names over the last year, it’s become clear that these names carry a lot of baggage,” Sibley said. “If we cringe a little bit when we say or hear a bird’s name, that’s a barrier to communication. … It’s different from the free and uncomplicated flow of information that we can have when we talk about the Surf Scoter, or Warbling Vireo or Yellow Warbler.”

Sibley said that implementing a raft of name changes in field guides and other birding references will require a lot of time and adjustment, but it’s eminently doable: “The hardest part will probably be convincing the birding community that this is worth the trouble. Education will be key to that. It’s a small step in the big landscape of racial and social injustice, but I think it’s important and definitely worth doing.”

Luke George

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 3:28 PM Robert Righter <rori...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Hi:

I would hope the American Ornithological Union would pause before changing common names of birds that are named after historic ornithologists as that could be divisive . Currently we are living in a period of time where accusations of racism are rampant and consequently we are currently judging past historic figures based on our current definition of how racist they may have been. This is how history becomes distorted and historic individuals unfortunately become misjudged. Let’s wait a decade or so and revisit the topic again when hopefully our lenses are clearer, less tainted. Why are we in such the rush to change the common names of birds that have been established for centuries. We all need to take a deep breath or two and wait to see what transpires.

Bob Righter

Denver, CO

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[Eric DeFonso]

I've just turned 56 and have now been birding for 30 years, but I am excited about the prospect of some significant name-changes. I too have had the opportunity to get to know a lot of young birders, and they get it, which delights me.

Personally, yes, I cringed once I realized who John McCown was. That to me was an embarrassment, and now that I know who he was and what he fought for, there's no unlearning that. I'm glad to see that the common name for the bird no longer reflects the legacy of that really awful man. I can only imagine then what a letdown it was or would have been if I weren't a white person but wanted to get into birding. As we've seen, it was easy enough to change that common name out, and we now regularly refer to that bird as the Thick-billed Longspur. To me it's like taking down a statue of Robert E Lee. Doing so doesn't erase Lee (or McCown) from history, it only means we no longer celebrate what they did or represented. Similarly, I still look back in amazement at how long the former name of the Long-tailed Duck was retained. It was still in effect when I started birding and I remember being a bit surprised at its existence and use since it sounded so degrading to living people, so when it got switched, I felt better about referring to the bird.

Moreover, I do look forward to the new names that we'll be finding for Townsend's Warbler, Solitaire, and Shearwater. It's a lot easier to advocate for the protection of birds (by us humans) when the very name of the birds you're seeking to protect aren't pointlessly offensive to other humans whose help and cooperation we need. It's all about respect. The next generation of birders needs to be larger and more diverse than we've been up until now, and the objective is to get lots more people to care about the long-term well-being of birds and their habitats. All hands on deck. I'm all for carrying out an easy reform that reflects a commitment to having as many people help out as can be. It's just a starting point to be sure, but why not.

I agree that sometimes eponymic names seem preferable because unique and concise adjectival descriptors for some species can be difficult to come up with. (One can witness this firsthand upon reading the South American Classification Committee forum exchanges, where committee members routinely discuss necessary name changes for South American birds.) This will be especially true for so many tropical species, although the current initiative isn't really designed or aimed at those groups. I also know that not all eponyms derive from people who were awful. Some were at worst just mildly annoying or no more fallible or obnoxious than any of us. Some names have little or no connection to the people who actually first described the birds (William Swainson comes to mind on both counts.) Humboldt was practically exemplary of a great human being even by our modern standards, certainly way above his contemporaries. Many others, like Parker, lived concurrently with some of us and do seem worthy of commemoration. To that I would say, sure, although I also remember that the name changes we're discussing are only for the common names, and not the scientific names. That's because changing the Latinized species name is an essentially impossible process according to the longstanding and universal ICZN (International Code of Zoological Nomenclature) conventions. For that reason, even now the Thick-billed Longspur's scientific name is Rhynchophanes mccownii, and cannot be changed unless a major change in our understanding of its systematics arises (which in its case seems very unlikely now).

Similarly, Townsend's name will persist in scientific names like that of the solitaire (Myadestes townsendi), etc. As will Parker's if it ever comes to that with the tropical Parker's Antbird (Cercomacroides parkeri).

-------

Eric DeFonso
Boulder County, CO

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[Megan Miller]

I am a freshly minted 31 year old and I have been part of Colorados birding community for around 20 years. I grew up here, found my passion for birds and wildlife here, and built a career out of it. It was very difficult and now that I am here the path forward doesn’t feel any easier. We still have great challenges to overcome to create a better planet for birds and people.

 A few years ago when discussion about changing bird names moved through twitter and instagram I was also initially hesitant. I love Wilson’s Warblers with all of my heart. But the more I learned about some (but not all) of the men that described these species the more it seemed that they were murderers first and avian hobbyists on the side. I think there are plenty of platforms to remember the people who described and categorized all these birds and it’s time to move on to new naming conventions. 

I know for a lot of younger birders this feels important because we feel we have so little power the change our world for the better. It feels like a tiny step to building a community fitting to our and future generations. I do think it’s inevitable and it is only a small change considering the changes that could face us in the coming years. 

I think Says Phoebe should be called Sunrise Phoebe. 

Megan Miller

Pueblo, Co 

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[Ted Floyd]

From Megan:

I think Says Phoebe should be called Sunrise Phoebe. 

What a marvelous suggestion. The name "Phoebe" refers to a sun deity (masculine or feminine or both; things were rather gender-fluid back in the day) and indicates brightness or radiance. Which, if you've ever seen the bird on the prairie in the sunrise, is the essence of perfection.

I hope someone's listening. :-)

Ted Floyd

Lafayette, Boulder Co.


 

Megan Miller

Pueblo, Co 

[Susan Rosine]

So then, take men off our coins and paper money who owned slaves and/or were cruel to American Indians--even though that was (sadly) normal and typical behavior for the times they lived in. 

McCown had no slaves, but Washington and Jefferson did. 

Susan Rosine 

Brighton 

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 11:10 PM Martin Gerra <mge...@yahoo.com> wrote:

It seems that the AOU has drawn a pretty clear and discernible criterion for renaming , i.e., not naming any species after Homo sapiens. There can be only two objections to this- one - some what understandable but very weak , the other indefensible. The one that is somewhat understandable is that learning new names might be  hard for those of us older birders who have used the old names for years. The second objection- the one that is indefensible- is that you are annoyed that we no longer choose to honor racists and enslavers. In order to avoid arguments about just how much racism merits a name change, the AOU has made a wise decision to elide the debate by agreeing that no Homo sapiens names should be attached to bird species. I say bravo ( even though I am old, and will now have to learn new names). 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 2, 2023, at 7:47 PM, Susan Rosine <u5b2...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Susan Rosine]

Van,

I love your new name as much as I love Stellar's Jays! 

Megan,

Sunrise or Sunset would both be nice names! 

Eric,

Since Townsend is a relative on mine, how about Town's End Warbler and Town's End Solitaire? After all, neither bird likes big cities 😂😂

And I thought it was hilarious what McCown had to say about the Confederates. Plus, he owned no slaves. And I didn't even know who he was until they changed the name of the bird.

Susan

Brighton 

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023, 7:41 AM Van Rudd <van....@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m all for names that relate to the birds, not the people who “discovered” them. 

My only suggestion for a new name:

Stellar’s Jay should be called the Stellar Jay, because they are. 

Van Rudd

Louisville, CO

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 2, 2023, at 23:04, Megan Miller <megan.k.m...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Peter Ruprecht]

Megan's suggestion for a wonderfully lyrical new name for our "dryland phoebe" delights me. A descriptive name is an improvement over an eponym, but a descriptive name that poetically celebrates the essence of the bird is even better. "Thick-billed" certainly beats "McCown's", but does it really do justice to a bird whose buoyant song-flight over an open prairie at dawn is a true wonder of nature? Perhaps we can follow the example of the odonates community who standardized the common names for dragonflies with creative and mellifluous ones like "boghaunter" and "sundragon".

If we think about naming a species for its habitat, let's keep in mind that its breeding habitat or the area that we most associate with it might not be where it lives for most of the year. In Colorado, Lincoln's Sparrow could accurately be called Willow Sparrow, but that might be confusing to people who see it in its nonbreeding range (where it spends the majority of its time). Similarly with Baird's -> Tundra Sandpiper.

We may also want to consider the current preferred names for parts of a bird, particularly the upper front of the torso. These days, something like "Crescent-chested" sounds better to a lot of people than "Buff-breasted".

Finally, while we're at it, could we please consider reverting Northern Harrier to Marsh Hawk? :)

Peter Ruprecht

Superior

[Susan Rosine]

I would vote for Marsh Hawk, Sunrise Phoebe and Stellar Jay! I would also like Rufous-sided Towhee back. The ones in the Pacific Northwest aren't very spotted, and have more rufous than ones in Colorado. 

Susan Rosine 

Brighton 

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[Mark Minner-lee]

It’s been forever since I’ve seen such a passionate conversation about a birding topic so I’ll throw my two cents in.

1.  Call the birds whatever you want, my priority in life is to enjoy them and advocate for their continued existence.  The name in my humble opinion the name has only been a marker of distinction not of importance.  

2. If people are truly not interested in helping with conservation/protection over the name of a bird then they are already not focused on helping birds anyway.  Changing the name isn’t going to make a difference in driving their ultimate support.

3.  Let’s stop stepping over hundred dollar bills to pick up pennies - there are a multitude of issues with more significance and impact that we can devote our energy to if it is the welfare or birds that we are truly interested in.    Let’s make the changes and move on to bigger and better things!

In other words at the end of the day just go out and keep enjoying birds while they are still here - the names do not matter.

Regards,

Mark Minner-Lee

Erie, CO

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2023, at 9:19 AM, Susan Rosine <u5b2...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Susan Rosine]

WELL PUT! BRAVO!!!!!!

Susan

[Eric DeFonso]

Sunrise Phoebe - EXCELLENT!

I think a lot of inspiration can come from seeing the kinds of English names given to hummingbirds in the neotropics. These names are a delight and if nothing else add greatly to the fun involved in searching them out and of course in finding them. I have perceived the value of an appropriate, catchy, or distinctive name for a bird, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. It adds to their charisma, and I would submit that anything that helps people feel more connected to the birds and thus to the natural world, even if it operates on an unconscious level, has a value. Names are part of language, and language is fascinating.

Sure, I'd still chase a dull-colored cardinal if one shows up in Boulder County, but I love the fact that on that magical day when someone finds it, I'll be seeing messages with PYRRHULOXIA splattered all over the subject lines instead. :)

Eric

p.s. There really is a bird called the Dull-colored Grassquit in South America. It's an accurate name, for what it's worth.

-------

Eric DeFonso
Boulder County, CO

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 11:04 PM Megan Miller <megan.k.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pamela Dowd]

Mark’s comments are well stated. What does it matter the names when over 1000 birds die in one night crashing into buildings.

 Is not more important to focus on both protecting the birds and the environment than to be a part of rewriting history to cover a past that makes some people feel uncomfortable.  

Thousands of dead migrating birds make me feel uncomfortable. 

Before moving to Colorado I helped picked up those birds. 

Respectfully,

Pam Munroe

Parker, CO

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2023, at 11:12 AM, Susan Rosine <u5b2...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Van Rudd]

I’m all for names that relate to the birds, not the people who “discovered” them. 

My only suggestion for a new name:

Stellar’s Jay should be called the Stellar Jay, because they are. 

Van Rudd

Louisville, CO

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 2, 2023, at 23:04, Megan Miller <megan.k.m...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Charlie Paterson]

How did American ornithology wind up with a committee that has the oxymoronic task of giving birds "official" common names, anyway? 

Everything biological already has a "universal" scientific name.  

Charlie Paterson

Colorado Springs

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[Chip Dawes]

I agree that time will likely reveal this historical rewrite to be a short lived (from a historical perspective) phenomenon.

The practice of excising notable individuals from the historic record goes way back to ancient Egypt where Hatshepsut and Akhenaten (King Tut's father) were but two notable examples from antiquity.  

More recent examples can be found in the French and Russian revolutions.

The historical record is usually recovered in part and the historical rewriting practice deprecated.  

This latest bout of historical cancellation will likely go through the same convulsions as past practices of this type of behavior.

On Thu, Nov 2, 2023 at 3:28 PM Robert Righter <rori...@earthlink.net> wrote:

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[Edward Landi]

80% of the world’s biodiversity is under the management of indigenous people. They are responsible for what’s left. If we want to conserve more birds and bird habitat, building relationships and collaborations with indigenous communities is essential. 

I don’t see collaborations happening with indigenous communities if we continue to name birds after people that dug up their ancestors’ grave sites. Townsend and Audubon showed no respect for indigenous people when they dug up skulls and kept them like souvenirs. 

Also, bird conservation is all about convincing non-bird people and the public to give their support.

My career has involved a lot of this and I can’t tell you how confused the public gets when they hear an honorific names: 

“You mean you want to protect the Caspian Sparrow?” 

We just don’t name any other things like this unless it belongs to someone. Honorific names are cumbersome and I have trouble getting people to remember the name. How is the public supposed to care about a grassland bird like the Cassin’s Sparrow if they can’t even remember the name?

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[Annette Aguero]

I love this! Very well put!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 3, 2023, at 11:07 AM, Mark Minner-lee <markrmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

It’s been forever since I’ve seen such a passionate conversation about a birding topic so I’ll throw my two cents in.

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[SeEttaM]

This amounts to nothing more than an attempt to 'white-wash' ornithology---to make it look like this field didn't revere those considered heroes during earlier historical periods who are now considered evil. 🤔 Future generations will look back on this and sigh. We can't erase the historical reality, slavery and Indian Wars and other bad stuff happened with birds named after some of the participants. And some birders and ornithologists thought that sweeping those names under a rug in 2023 was a higher priority than conserving birds and their habitats.  Geeze🫣🫣🫣🫣

SeEtta Moss

Canon City

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[Stacie West]

Where is the idea that changing some bird names means that conserving birds and their habitats coming from? 

An ad hoc committee was formed. It didn't take over the rest of the work of the AOS, other birding organizations, and a growing number of birders in the US and world. Perhaps this movement to consider the names and legacies of these early ornithologists will lead to efforts to not erase but continue to educate and repair.

Since a few commenters shared: I'm 41 and began birding just over 3 years ago, and I'm delighted to hopefully have so much life left to continue to enjoy it and advocate for birds and their habitats. Birding has continued to evolve and advance how I approach my profession as an urban planner, and I'm grateful. With the zeal of a newcomer, I've also enjoyed welcoming others into the joy of birding. 

How wonderful that, from time to time, we can evaluate things like names and their meaning or impacts, consider additional information or perspectives, and learn from different ways of looking at the world. I suppose being a newbie makes it easier to accept change, but I also enjoyed my first experience birding in another country this year and learning about common names in other languages. What a delight to be able to tickle our neurons with expansive and inclusive thinking.

Happy birding,

Stacie West

Denver

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[Dan Zmolek]

The conservation point is that, when you decide whether to support an organization, it is better to look at their actual track record in getting positive outcomes for the birds.  And there really should be a lot more discussion of wildlife protection than these side issues.  You can keep arguing about the name after the bird is extinct, but what’s the point. 

  But the bird name topic is interesting.  I would recommend the book : Mrs Moreau's Warbler: How Birds Got Their Names.  That gives a neat account of English bird names and how various folks have been trying to standardize them ever since.  In particular, it was interesting to read about MacGuillivray’s work.  And the number of cool folk names that have been left by the wayside, but should be brought back - such as firetail for redstart.   

One thing is sure, the same group that brought the Mew gull debacle will likely not handle these re-names very well either.   Probably will be a good market for a browser extension to fix whatever dumb names come out next…

Dan Zmolek

Longmont

[Diana Beatty]

We don't have to cast this as an either/ or discussion.  We can care about the birds and conservation and also care about how naming conventions affect those who are often disenfranchised.  

While I appreciate the concern of some that name changes are an effort to hide history, I disagree.  First of all, the scientific names are currently still remaining eponymous.  Second, all the birds that aren't eponymously named aren't concealing any history by being so-named.  The history remains available to all who want to know it, and if we are concerned these individuals will somehow be forgotten or remembered in some inaccurate way, having a bird name or not doesn't address that issue one way or another.  

Usually those who are interested in name changes are so interested not because of trying to sanitize history or demonize historical figures, but rather to allow for the expansion of our historical lens to include those who are often left out or seen as less important.  People often talk the talk about wanting to make birding more inclusive, and this is one pretty small thing in that direction.  While some may find it silly or not the most effective step,  the fact that it is meaningful and important to some people should be respected.  We can't tell people we want to be more inclusive for them and then disregard what they ask for to feel included. 

We do birds no favors by trying to put this issue against conservation or other important issues.  We have room and capacity for more than one issue at a time, and the reality is that the future of birds in part depends on more people caring about birds, and thus inclusivity is essential for bird survival.

We can see this as an exciting opportunity for bird names to become useful in understanding something about the birds.   

Diana Beatty

El Paso County

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[Stacie West]

Well said, and I couldn't agree more.

I've been thinking over the last few days how the renaming effort doesn't have to be the end of the discussion on righting historic wrongs or highlighting efforts to conserve and celebrate birds among communities whose voices were historically left out, and worse, of ornithology and conservation work and documentation.

And from a habitat and conservation standpoint, and relating directly to the work I do, communities subject to the historic practice of redlining are still often communities with fewer birding surveys and data. (

https://www.science.org/content/article/echoes-u-s-housing-discrimination-seen-bird-survey-data)

Sometimes that can perpetuate the idea that those neighborhoods aren't good places to bird or that residents aren't interested in birding. Often it indicates that there may not be healthy habitats. We know that healthy bird habitats benefit their human neighborhoods as well. There are many groups and individuals seeking to change access to green spaces and nature for historically disenfranchised communities. Let's celebrate those.

Let the conversation around names and history continue to inspire us to work toward a better world -- for us and for the birds we love.

Stacie West

Denver

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[Carol Blackard]

Thank you, Diana Beatty. Finally my thoughts exactly expressed on this list, and expressed beautifully.

How this discussion ever became either names OR conservation is puzzling indeed. They are not mutually exclusive goals.

I believe in both respect and conservation. And personally, since learning more about some ugly behaviors of Townsend, I won’t feel respectful about applying that name to the warbler I love.

Carol Blackard

carolblackard.com

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2023, at 10:57 AM, Diana Beatty <otowi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Marty W]

Thanks Diana for your clarity and wisdom. Reason, common sense, and a focus on what's best for most (humans birds and the future of the whole planetary biosphere) should always be our compass and remain in the forefront.

Marty Wolf

NW CO Spgs

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[mvjo...@gmail.com]

And I have a question and hope I did not miss anything in this lengthy thread. Will AOS accept our suggestions for possible name changes? Seems like we in the field have an excellent grasp of possible features and habitats. Seems to me they should take a participatory and inclusive approach and invite suggestions and ideas. 

John Rawinski

Monte Vista, CO

[John A Maynard]

Well said. And I would hope that some historic names like Lewis and Clark could be retained.

John Maynard

On Nov 4, 2023, at 6:23 PM, mvjo...@gmail.com <mvjo...@gmail.com> wrote:

And I have a question and hope I did not miss anything in this lengthy thread. Will AOS accept our suggestions for possible name changes? Seems like we in the field have an excellent grasp of possible features and habitats. Seems to me they should take a participatory and inclusive approach and invite suggestions and ideas. 

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[Mel Goff]

John,

They only said they would have "public input", so that may not even include any birders. Especially older birders who may not fall into the target audience for the exercise.

 

Mel Goff

Colorado Springs, CO

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[Stephen H]

I agree Robert. I don't find the arguments for removing all eponymous bird names here or elsewhere very convincing and believe this to be more about politics & power seeking from the activists involved.

To quote one of the co-founders of "Bird Names for Birds" who was behind the effort, "Smash the patriarchy and celebrate birds?! That’s my new motto according to the news today."

[Noelle Nicholson]

A lot of great opinions have already been expressed, but I have one more point of view to throw in the mix. 

I’m including two quotes below about names, one by Mary Oliver, the other by Robin Wall Kimmerer. 

I think of these words often because the name of a bird can be the least important thing about it, even though it’s sometimes the first thing I want to know. What about its song, its body contour, its bill shape, its place in the landscape? Most of our names are arbitrary and unrelated to what makes that bird that bird. 

And yet…I do feel Oliver’s same “inexplicable delight” in knowing a bird’s name. When I can call a Wilson’s Warbler a Wilson’s Warbler and not just an amazing little yellow and black bird, I feel that I’m respecting them, as Kimmerer says, and taking the tiniest step towards a more reciprocal relationship. 

But if we call birds by their names as a matter of respect, is calling them by the name of people who enslaved or degraded other people an act of respect? 

“Little Bird in the Pepper Tree”

 

Don't mind my inexplicable delight

to know your name,

Wilson's warbler,

yellow as a lemon, with a black cap.

Just do what you do, dipping branch by branch

down to the fountain

to sip neatly; then fly away.

A name is not a leash.

 

-Mary Oliver

 

 

It's a sign of respect and connection to learn the name of someone else, a sign of disrespect to ignore it. And yet, the average American can name over a hundred corporate logos and ten plants. Is it a surprise that we have accepted a political system that grants personhood to corporations, and no status at all for wild rice and redwoods? Learning the names of plants and animals is a powerful act of support for them. When we learn their names and their gifts, it opens the door to reciprocity.

 

- Robin Wall Kimmerer

Noelle 

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2023, at 22:13, Stephen H <hen...@shendrix.com> wrote:

I agree Robert. I don't find the arguments for removing all eponymous bird names here or elsewhere very convincing and believe this to be more about politics & power seeking from the activists involved.

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[jhm...@gmail.com]

I’ve been a birder for 50+ years.  I’m unproud to say my skills have not really advanced much in those years.  I have no audio capabilities (too many voices in my head I think…) I haven’t added to my life list in a while and 90% of my lists were completed in an ornithology course in college and jungle trips in South America.

 

My undergraduate degree was in Environmental Education, but I screwed up and went to law school…. So birding and most wildlife viewing got in the back seat of my life at times. I still point out hawks sitting on light poles to whoever is sitting in the car or sometimes to no one. Then I try and figure out what type of hawk it is. Growing up in Ohio that was a real issue, versus here, red tailed…..

 

The one thing that I have also stumbled over/laughed/ at been curious about is bird names are always changing. I get excited when I see a sparrow hawk and then spend 10 minutes trying to remember what the new name is. I looked at some of my early bird books and a third of the names are now different.  I seriously read these emails thinking “is that a new bird I don’t know about or have I missed another name change.”

 

Bird is the only wildlife accounting study where the names change. I’ve not seen a fungus name change announcement ever.

 

The American Bison, Wolf, Alligator etc. have not changed their names since my classes at The Ohio State University in the 70’s. I’ve always thought there were a group of egg head birders (figure that out) sitting around coming up with new names just to make birding more challenging for me (a personal issue in my mind).

 

So this latest round of changes have a reason in a lot of peoples minds, other than to just confuse me further. Sure at some point we will cease because we won’t know if Grunt & Doink, our Neanderthal cousins ate other Neanderthals so we can’t change the Purple Footed Doink to something else.

 

If it gets one more person into birding or liking birding or worrying about birding I’m all I favor of it.

 

If it protects one more bird, please continue to confuse me.

 

If Sibley has another book to sell, OK, hopefully he will come by on a book tour and I can sit in the back and wonder how he does it. Or I can write the new names in my old book because unlike humans, changing our name does not mean a trip to the salon (or saloon) to get a new hair color.

 

Obviously it is providing birders with something to talk about, as I sit here in my office trying to bird out the window, with computer glasses on that allow me to almost focus on the window.

 

Going to get my blow tube that I brought back from the jungle and sit on the deck birding and shooting outdoor cats. I love cats but they are indoor animals and the darts don’t have Curare on them…any more. I’m not good enough to hit the cats, and as long as I don’t cough and inhale a dart I can hit the fence and scare the cats away.

 

Just my $400 worth (I am an attorney so Yes I have an inflated value of myself)

 

Jim Moss

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[mvjo...@gmail.com]

Thanks Mel. 

John Rawinski

Monte Vista CO