RE: Cobirds vs Ebird Reporting

[markc...@comcast.net]

Recently, I have noticed a trend of good to great chaseable birds not being reported to CObirds but instead just added to the eBird checklist. The reason for the email is that yesterday, a Great-crested Flycatcher was reported from the Denver Botanical Gardens at Chatfield around 8:40 a.m. After looking at the photos attached to the checklist, I'm struggling to rule out a Brown-crested Flycatcher. The problem with this kind of reporting is that you're not hearing about the bird until the next day. A few weeks ago, a Tri-colored Heron was reported to CObirds and many people were able to see the bird before it disappeared the following day. I'm not trying to criticize a person's decision of reporting, because it is ultimately their choice. I'm trying to get a better understanding of why this trend is increasing so rapidly?

Mark Chavez
Lakewood-Green Mtn
http://jaeger29.smugmug.com/

[Joey Kellner]

The trend will continue (and may even expand) as new and easier ways of reporting and tracking bird sightings.  With phone apps now available to easily document our sightings conveniently in the field there is less urgency to race home and type up a message on COBIRDS.  This is just my opinion as to why this is happening.  I too am guilty of spending a day in the field, coming home exhausted and then failing to report my sightings in a second forum.

 

Birding is a great hobby and it leaves much to the observer as far as the desire to be involved 1) by themselves, 2) join up with other individuals, 3) join a local club or group, or 4) join a national organization (ABA).  It is up to the individual to decide what level of birding THEY want (feeder watching, local patch watching, Big Day attempts, annual "year" list tracking or continent (or worldwide) birding).  Like I said, a great hobby for all levels of interest or involvement.

 

With that decision also comes another decision (wow, so complicated).  How to document or track what you see?  Some just get out and watch and don't track any of their sightings...they just enjoy getting out in the fresh air and seeing nature.  Others track to the minute level of what bird was on what specific power pole!  Once you determine what level of record keeping you want, you must decide (yeah, another decision) what method to use to track your sightings (paper, computer spreadsheet, software package designed for birders, or something like eBird). 

 

Here it comes....another decision...do you feel comfortable with and want to report your sightings to others?  How?  1) A phone call and leave a message on the local Rare Bird Alert (easy and convenient with just a phone call)?  2) Use a computer at home (or a laptop in your hotel) to post your sightings online (e.g. COBIRDS)?  3) Send a "tweet" to all your close birding buddies, 4) Post to your Facebook page so that anyone "following" you can see what you've found, 5) Submit your sightings via a smart-phone app to eBird?  Wow!  What options we have!  Now for convenience, one stop "shopping" (birding) allows me to track my sightings on a checklist AND at the same time provides me with a method to notify others!  Wow, what convenience!

 

What I'm really getting at here is that technology is developing and changing fast and unless there is a way to synthesize all the electronic (and other) data out there, there will always be a disconnect in reporting.

 

Now I'm not suggesting that this REALLY happen, but what if eBird posted their alerts to COBIRDS automatically every few hours?  I would get a lot of email that I really don't want AND it might just "clutter up" COBIRDS.

 

So, until all the observation data can be gathered together in a single location (and selectively "mined" for the good stuff...and the bad stuff ruled out) we will be in a world of multiple forums for gathering sighting data.

 

Isn't America great?!  Our enjoyment and hobby are not dictated to us.  All these choices we have!  With great choice comes great responsibility?

 

My three thoughts (small as they may be).

 

Joey Kellner

Littleton, Colorado

[otowi]

I also wonder how many people know about CObirds?  There are a lot of birders not subscribed to this or any other group.   CObirds seems to me kind of like an "insider" thing that only people in certain circles know about, and that many are likely to assume is only for use by experts or highly experienced birders to share reports with one another.  Who is really wanted to post here and what is post-worthy?

An advantage of eBird is that you can keep your whole life list there easily and can simply report what you think you saw - it feels a lot more personal and functional for individual use.  Just as phone lines have gone by the wayside, egroups are a little old school today in terms of how people actually use the Internet for social purposes, so using CObirds requires many to take a set of unnatural steps that they wouldn't ordinarily be doing.

Diana Beatty

El Paso

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 12:53:16 PM UTC-6, Mark wrote:

[The "Nunn Guy"]

Hi all

To add, just today while "walking the internet" I found two local "Birds and Brews" and "Northern Colorado" birding groups.  Seems to have been around awhile as well.  I agree with Joey, Diana people bird for personal reasons and "centralized or one-stop birding" is quickly disappearing--21st century digital birding is the norm.  I even realize at some point my site below will become obsolete without change.

Thanks
Gary Lefko, Nunn
http://coloradobirder.ning.com/
Mobile:  http://coloradobirder.ning.com/m

[BirdNerd's Email]

Mark,

I have found that on my e-bird alerts for rare species or birds I haven't found this year the hourly setting helps me catch some of those reports.   This obviously misses birders who enter lists at the end of the day or later, but it does help catch a fair number of recent reports without the person entering the list having to enter sightings elsewhere.  Not a complete solution, but a helpful one for chasers-

Mark Minner-Lee

Superior, CO

Sent from my iPad

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[Kay Niyo]

A quick way to check for “currently reported” birds in your area is to click on the website home pages of DFO http://dfobirds.org/ or CFO http://cobirds.org/ and look at BirdTrax, the “Recent eBird Sightings” app that is constantly updating.  Scroll down in BirdTrax and you will see the Great-crested Flycatcher reported by a couple birders, where and when.

 

Kay

 

Kayleen A. Niyo, Ph.D.

Niyo Scientific Communications

5651 Garnet St.

Golden, CO 80403

303.679.6646

K...@KayNiyo.com; www.KayNiyo.com

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[Art Hudak]

BirdTrax did not report my Palm Warbler (Western) from Bear Creek Park, Denver county on 10/25/15. It was on the list and I simply put 1 in the box verifying the species recognition. It did not come up as rare. This was my first record of this bird in Denver county.

Art Hudak, city of Denver, county of Denver.

[Steve Stachowiak]

Cobirders,

A "Thank You" to the parties that posted the Great-crested Flycatcher sighting to eBird and documenting the record for further discussion.

I am not following the logic to Mark's original post because even if the bird had been posted to CObirds the minute it was seen it would have been simply noted as a Great-crested Flycatcher; a good sighting but not extraordinary nor would it have included a picture.  The posting to eBird documented the sighting with pictures and possibly established the second state record of a rarer species than originally thought when posted.

It should be noted the CObirds and eBird are two entirely different things.  Instead of the idea of one displacing the other it should be viewed as one augmenting the other.  Now birders have a wider array of information to learn about birds and their distribution from two sources.

Thirty years ago that information was only available in a monthly newsletter from the Denver Field Ornithologists (DFO) that arrived a month after the sightings.  Then DFO sponsored a recorded (on tape) bird sighting report that was available 24-7 assuming the administrator had updated the tape (which at times would be updated as many as eight or more times a day during the spring).  What progress!  How quaint!  How dated!  CObirds is an open forum that is used by everyone from beginners to experts and very accessible.  I can now be anywhere in the world and in thirty seconds or so on my phone view everything posted to both CObirds and eBirds allowing me to know more about the current status of birds in the State than was ever possible.

I do not have a problem saying that today's birders are spoiled by an embarrassment of riches.  Embrace them.  Use them.  Share the knowledge.  Enrich the birding experience for everyone.  Show your passion!  Besides, in about five years all this will be obsolete anyways, and I cannot wait for what comes next!

Good Birding,

Steve Stachowiak

Highlands Ranch, CO

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 12:53:16 PM UTC-6, Mark wrote:

[David Suddjian]

As an avid eBirder and regular CObirds poster, I agree that the two satisfy different needs or purposes, but these overlap between the two outlets, too. I don't principally use either for chasing purposes, as that is a not a main interest for me, thus the immediacy is less a need. But I will note that a CObirds post can be a good deal more informative about the birding experience at a location, and offer much additional info that is lacking in the eBird alerts or even on eBird checklists. It is easier to tell the story of the birding experience via CObirds, or enjoy stories from others, and I like that part. And easier to pose thoughts and delve into interesting questions. So both are good outlets.

The current membership of CObirds is 1,409 people, so it is hard to see that as an insider thing. I think many birders seek out regional lists as a basic sort of info and can fidn CObirds that way, and anyone discovering CFO or DFO could also readily learn about CObirds. 

David Suddjian

Littleton, CO

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[Marcia Maeda]

This is a belated note of appreciation for those who continue to post on Cobirds, often with narratives.  Some of us don't use ebird, and the stories on Cobirds are often instructive.

Marcia Maeda

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[Gary Brower]

Thanks, David!

I was hoping/waiting for you to weigh in.  I know you are involved in both "worlds", so your input is helpful.

Gary Brower

Englewood, CO

Sent from my iPad

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 30, 2015, at 8:19 PM, David Suddjian <dsud...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[David Suddjian]

One more point from me, in response to Diana's question,  "Who is really wanted to post here and what is post-worthy?"

You can find the answer at the COBirds Information page here:  http://cobirds.org/CFOPage.aspx?pg=2

The information there indicates a wide range of topics are acceptable, even if there is a focus on reporting and relating interesting or rare birds. But even then, it is pretty open, as stated on the page, "Whatever you think is rare or interesting is acceptable."

As for who is wanted to post, it is open to all members to post within the parameters of what is acceptable for the list (see link).

David Suddjian

Littleton, CO

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[apan...@yahoo.com]

The nice thing about ebird is your observations go into a database where they reside permanently to be used in various analyses.  Your observations to cobirds are soon no longer relevant and not easy to retrieve, summarize, etc.  fortunately, sharing your ebird lists to cobirds only takes a few clicks.  I will try to start doing this more.  

If you haven't yet tried the new ebird app for your phone I suggest you do. Very easy to use!

Arvind Panjabi

Fort Collins 

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[Brandon K. Percival]

I think cobirds was first created, to save people from calling the Colorado Rare Bird Alert all the time, to find out what rare birds were being seen in Colorado (which is good for those of us, who didn't live in the Denver area, since it costs money to call the Rare Bird Alert).  So, for a while cobirds was the best way to find out about rare birds people were finding around Colorado.  Later on, everyone got cell phones, so when something crazy was being found, your phone was ringing, if you are in the loop.  Cobirds was still working, as some people would post from their phones to let the word out about rare birds quickly.  Now, there is e-bird, and rare bird reporting to cobirds has gone downhill it seems.  Luckily, if something crazy is found, the cell phone still rings usually.  

I got a call late on Thursday evening, to look at a e-bird checklist, with photos of a "Great Crested Flycatcher", of course, I thought before seeing the photos, a Great Crested Flycatcher in Colorado in late October probably isn't one.  I wasn't surprised to see the photos that showed the bird was a BROWN-CRESTED FLYCATCHER!  If the e-bird checklist was submitted mid-day or before, even without photos, giving directions to the "Great Crested Flycatcher", some local Denver birders, would have quickly, gone to look, since they would know, a Great Crested Flycatcher in Colorado in late October, is very very unlikely, and some would remember Dave Leatherman found a Brown-crested Flycatcher in late October a few years ago at Crow Valley Campground, thinking someone should go look quickly.  Anyway, these late October rare flycatchers don't seem to stick around, so knowing about it right away, would be better, if anyone else is going to be able to see.  When I birding on Wednesday, I was actually looking for Brown-crested Flycatcher, Thick-billed Kingbird, and Groove-billed Ani among other things, since this seems like a good time of the year to be looking for these birds.  I didn't find any of those birds of course, though they were all on my mind.  It is good to know, when certain birds should be here, or not be here.  

Congrats on the finders of the Chatfield Brown-crested Flycatcher on Thursday, and great job on getting photos.  The Colorado Birds Records Committee will be looking forward to the documentation on this sighting.  I think there are only two accepted records for Colorado of this species, as of right now.  The Crow Valley bird and the one from the summer in the San Luis Valley.  I think there are a couple other sightings too.  Hopefully this species will show up more, and maybe stay long enough for all of us to see.

 

Brandon Percival

Pueblo West, CO

[Dan Stringer]

When I started birding six years ago, CoBirds was where I learned what was out there and where to look. eBird is great for so many data-related reasons, but CoBirds tells the tale. Reading how Dave Leatherman posts great bird notes but also related entomology, plants, weather, listing a multitude of areas new to me, etc...or how David Suddjan helps complete the picture with related sightings in an under-birded overall area, or how Steve Mlodinow describes an all-day trip, apparently keeping index cards in his head for unexpected birds therefore finding them, or Glenn Walbek reporting from the far reaches of Lincoln County (so that's the time of year I might consider going there!), or Brandon Percival posting something that makes me get in my car and go learn something in that Pueblo area that's so unique...these things are Irreplaceable to developing birders who learn that there's good habitat right near where they've been driving and hiking all along, or where they've never been. I agree with Mark Chavez, any time a sighting is posted to CoBirds we have the option of getting an e-mail alert right as it's posted...last week when I went to Terry Lake to view a reported Loon, I was sure (from a long ways away) that it was Pacific...when pulling out of the parking area I got an e-mail alert on my phone about Red-throated Loon, backtracked, and was able to re-assess the bird. Later confirmed it was Red-throated Loon, it was a great education for me.

Please keep posting to CoBirds. It's benefitting more people than you know.

Dan Stringer,

Larkspur, Co

On Friday, October 30, 2015 at 12:53:16 PM UTC-6, Mark wrote:

[Libby Edwards]

Since we moved back to Colorado from overseas 7 years ago and Cole Wild turned us on to CObird as well as eBird, COBird has been the most invaluable system of learning about Colorado birds, the areas to see them, and everything that Dan Stringer said below about those amazing individual birders who we have learned so much from. And priceless is the enthusiasm that comes through at every spotting, especially this fall when waves of sandhill cranes were coming over.  Not only have we learned a lot, CObird has made us better birders, increased our sense of habitat and season, and helped us meet some of those special people who are so willing to take time to show us where to find birds. And I will add a thank you to Ted Floyd for his posts too, making us aware of nights flights, and full moon watching. 

YES! Please keep posting to CObird. You are right, it is benefitting more than you realize as I even forward local posts to friend birders who are not on CObird.

Libby Edwards

Fort Collins

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[Scott Somershoe]

I'm a little late chiming in, but this is a common issue, probably all states.  A lot of folks go birding, at whatever intensity, some post to the list(s), some use eBird, and some post on Facebook, while others do combos of these and others yet do none.  

In Tennessee, we had the same issue with cross-posting.  For years eBird use in TN was pretty limited, but I slowly but surely got more people to use eBird (through talks to TOS chapters and some arm twisting) and encouraged posting to the state list TN-Bird.  Many folks refuse to post to the list because of fear of criticism and scrutiny, and getting nasty grams from the list manager turned a lot of people off (everyone got rudely chewed out now and again).  I ultimately created a TN Birding Facebook page, plus promoted Facebook and eBird through two websites I designed for my agency (I was ornithologist for the Tennessee state wildlife agency).  We engaged with thousands of people that were otherwise unaware of birding groups and wildlife resources sharing information through utilization of the Tennessee's Watchable Wildlife (tnwatchablewildlife.org) website and and the new Tennessee Birding Trails (tnbirdingtrail.org) website and associated Facebook pages and an "Ask Scott" email link where I got all kinds of questions.  Sadly, I launched the birding trails page day before I announced I was moving to CO to be the land bird coord for this region of the US Fish and Wildlife Service, so that page hasn't been completely promoted yet (but the Bird Trax rare bird gadget is on the home page and eBird is full integrated everywhere on both web sites).  

The morale of the story is that we can engage thousands of folks to share information. Some will choose to post, eBird, FB, all or none, but we should continue to encourage use of multiple resources as much as possible.  We constantly promoted the TN-Bird list on Facebook in Tennessee but folks often wouldn't post, so when someone posted a rarity (often via posting photo of a bird they couldn't ID), I made a point of posting to the list serve. That cross-posting was very important for a lot of reasons.  In general, the List Serve is a very good archive of bird records, field notes, etc, where as Facebook is not searchable and is a terrible archive but is easy for engaging tons of folks easily.  All outlets have positive attributes, but it's always going to be tough to make them all work to their max.

In terms of eBird data, I'll echo what Arvind said with the scientific value.  In TN, when we were updating our State Wildlife Action Plan, I got permission from the eBird folks and downloaded 250,000 records of priority species occurrences in the state.  These data were the majority of bird records we had for most species and were extremely valuable to conservation planning for the state.  So submit those lists!  Your every day birding records are valuable at many levels, no matter what state or country you are in.  eBird isn't just a listing tool (although I use it for that too!).  

I'd also add that birding is fun, has to be fun, and honestly, sharing birds with others is the greatest part of this crazy obsession (I mean, hobby) of mine.  Some of my fondest birding memories are of sharing good birds with others, whether I found them, chased them, or founds goodies with a group.  Memories of birds and birding days from years ago remain with me much better than what I did last week.

Good birding!

Scott Somershoe

Littleton CO

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