Keeving process, learning and questions

[Simon Renault]

Hi there,

Back in November, here in Southern Vermont, we pressed 6 different batches of cider using a variety of  heirloom varieties. Each batch is 5 gallons and fermented in glass carboys. The goal was to experiment with keeving, learn as much as possible and observe how each batch would respond and ultimately taste. The keeve was more or less successful and 7 months later, we have bottled four of the six batches (we bottled at 1.015). The fermentation in the last two batches was quite consistent, (hovering between 10 and 20 FSU) but now seems to have stopped altogether at 1.020. One of them is actually developing a white pellicle on top and we are wondering whether it is from (good) wild bacterial fermentation or (bad) outside bacteria. We would love to hear thoughts from the cider community about the white pellicle and are also curious to hear any feedback on our process. Any questions, suggestions, comments are welcome. I am including our keeving data spreadsheet in this email for those who are interested and curious about our data collection and process.

Thank you,

Simon

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Simon Renault
General Manager

Scott Farm Orchard

https://scottfarmvermont.com/

802-356-8265

[Andrew Lea]

Well I don’t want to be a party pooper, but looking from this side of the pond I never saw a white pellice on a cider (keeved or not) which was in any way a good thing. At best it’s the beginning of a film yeast which you can certainly tackle in its early stages - lots of information for handling that in the archives here. There can be some “good” lactic acid bacteria in maturing cider but they don’t normally form films, though some can lead to “ropiness” or dextran gels. But these are not aerobic and they usually form sheets or ropes in the body of the cider which eventually drop to the bottom.  

Do you have pictures? Could it just be a second crop of keeved calcium pectate?

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

On 10 May 2021, at 17:34, Simon Renault <simonin...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<Keeving Data.xlsx>

[Edu V Coto]

Acetic bacteria...?

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[Andrew Lea]

Yes Acetobacter is another possibility.  But in my (UK) experience they need to be at >20C to proliferate, whereas film yeasts will develop at much lower cellar temperatures. And keeved fermentations are usually run as cool as possible so I would regard acetobacter as less likely. And by the time they develop to be a significant film, the odour of acetic acid and ethyl acetate is pretty unmistakeable.

However, YMMV ;-)

Andrew

Wittenham Hill Cider Portal
www.cider.org.uk

On 10 May 2021, at 22:16, Edu V Coto <eduar...@gmail.com> wrote:



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