Damson co-ferment

[Andy Backinsell]

I have done a co-ferment experiment with some Damsons that were used to infuse a brandy, I left them in a dry cider for a little over a month, slightly longer than I was hoping but didn't get round to racking until today.  I noticed that some of the damsons had developed white/grey tarnish, perhaps mould.  I also left perhaps too long a gap between the brandy and the co-ferment, they were stored airtight in the fridge but for a few months.

I had a quick chat with Chat GPT and it was emphatic that I should discard the batch.  Talked about mycotoxins  - would people agree or consider the high alcohol (about 7%) and high acid an amount of protection.  I am not too fussed, I have more cider and more damsons... just lack the brandy (poor mans barrel influence)!  Just curious to see what others would do.

 

[Andy Backinsell]

[gareth chapman]

There are two things to consider here.
How likely there is to be mycotoxins, could they be produced in the conditions you have provided, which toxins and during which part of the process they were produced.
Alcohol and acid won't break down mycotoxins, but the fermentation process may or may not break them down, depending on which ones.
If you think you have mould on the fruit personally I would steer clear.

[Megan Faschoway]

Hi all, 

Completely anecdotal information here - I did a carbonic maceration with plums this year and the plums were covered in this same yeasty sediment, especially the ones near the bottom. Same as the continued lees that has been dropping out. Mine felt and smelled like lees so perhaps this is the case for you? From the photo it looks exactly the same and I wish I had taken a photo for reference. 

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[Andrew Backinsell]

Thanks both, yes I am leaning towards if anything pellicle or similar film yeast, there was very little (damsons had risen into the tiny bit of neck space) room for oxygen and no hair like growth or colour so I am reasonably happy it’s not a mould that could lead to toxins. It might all go down to the taste, if it’s worth the worry! 

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[Andrew Lea]

Many plums have a very waxy cuticle and my guess is it’s simple plum wax which is insoluble in dilute alcohol. And yeast lees.

Andrew

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