CB or Zotonic

[kdah...@gmail.com]

We are about to do a redevelopment from scratch of a web app that was built in Yii, I would like to know what the advantages of ChicagoBoss are over Zotonic are.
What impressed me most about Zotonic is that they have a lot of modules that we need that are already done like Facebook integration, SEO module, blogs, rss feeds etc.
But on the other hand at least on paper CB seems a lot more impressive. I would also like to know in terms of development cycle and the time it takes to build an app in CB how that
compares to Yii or Django.

Your answers are greatly appreciated!

[kotedo]

Hi,

Long story short, if you need all the modules that are already in zotonic, go with zotonic.

Developing equal quality modules will take time and skill.

I LOVE ChicagoBoss, but I am not afraid to use zotonic for websites.  Fantastic.

—Kai

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[Karim Dahmani]

Thanks for your reply, I have decided to use some sort of Erlang Framwework to develop a site that is similar in features to
Trip Advisor, we have thrown away 3 complete rewrites in PHP, my biggest issue right now is that my developers are pushing
really hard to go with Django, and they tell me that Erlang is not well suited to this type of project and there are no large scale
websites that use Erlang, and information I can use to prove my point would be of great help. I do have to say that they have
no experience with Erlang but my take is that they can definitely learn it.

[Cuong Thai]

Hi Karim,

Yii, Django and ... are slow dogs.

Zotonic is CMS. They say it is also Web Framework, but they work with only postgres, no NoSql (http://zotonic.com/page/620/proven-and-powerful-database)

ChicagoBoss is Web Framework.

If your product doesn't need NoSql, Zotonic is the best choice.

Regards,

Cuong Th.

[David Welton]

> Thanks for your reply, I have decided to use some sort of Erlang Framwework
> to develop a site that is similar in features to
> Trip Advisor, we have thrown away 3 complete rewrites in PHP, my biggest
> issue right now is that my developers are pushing
> really hard to go with Django, and they tell me that Erlang is not well
> suited to this type of project and there are no large scale
> websites that use Erlang, and information I can use to prove my point would
> be of great help. I do have to say that they have
> no experience with Erlang but my take is that they can definitely learn it.

If you hired them to code, presumably they know what they are doing
and are giving you good advice, no?

For *most* new sites, the difficult problem is finding product/market
fit - can we get the right mix of features/community/whatever to make
it successful? This often requires rapid iteration - adding new
stuff, trying new ideas, and with something like Django, or Ruby on
Rails, or even PHP, you're more likely to find a lot of code to use
out of the box.

Where Erlang is really good is that it uses fewer resources to
accomplish the same thing. One area where Erlang *really* shines is
if you need to use web sockets. Those just aren't a good fit for
Rails or Django. For some kinds of projects, these things are
critical - for many, though, they are not.

There are certainly large and well-known projects that utilize Erlang.
Whatsapp. Facebook used to use it for their chat system

--
David N. Welton

http://www.welton.it/davidw/

http://www.dedasys.com/

[Karim Dahmani]

They are slowly getting convinced, but they adamantly want to stick to ChicagoBoss over Zotonic
if we are going to use Erlang which we will, since I have had a very good experience back in
2001 when I was involved (as a partner not as a developer) in creating a layer 5 switch totally built in erlang.

As I had mentioned previously we are building a site that is similar to Trip Advisor but for the online gambling
industry, so if we are going to be starting from scratch with CB and would have to create all the following modules

1. CMS (with all the standard functionality such as seo modules, RSS feeds, support for media embedding
2. Forum
3. Social Media integration (Facebook login and registration and profile synching)
4. Review modules

Could something like this be done in 6 months with 4-5 developers using CB?

Thanks again!

[Michael Connors]

One could argue that Zotonic's use of Postgres is NoSql, as they use it to store resources as a single binary blob which is converted back to erlang term application side. If you want to use the CMS features of Zotonic you would need to use Postgres, that is true; however you could use Riak or something else for your own custom models without much effort.

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[Michael Connors]

While I think that Erlang is well suited to to web-applications; I think it is important to factor in the learning curve and the availability of experienced developers.

If your developers know Django, and are comfortable using it they are more likely to meet their deadlines than with an unfamiliar language. 

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[Nick Pavlica]

Karim,

On Friday, January 24, 2014 11:26:43 AM UTC-7, Karim Dahmani wrote:

They are slowly getting convinced, but they adamantly want to stick to ChicagoBoss over Zotonic
if we are going to use Erlang which we will, since I have had a very good experience back in
2001 when I was involved (as a partner not as a developer) in creating a layer 5 switch totally built in erlang.  

Erlang is an excellent language/runtime for web applications, and offers a number of advantages over the other languages and frameworks mentioned in this thread.  Additionally, Elixer, another language for the EVM, can be used as well.  Elixer is gaining allot of support from some serious players in the Ruby/Ruby On Rails community like Dave Thomas.  Your developers should pick up enough Erlang/Elixer quickly enough that they can get the the basics done, and grow from there.  If they can't, you should reconsider the real value of your team.  Over the long run, I think you, and your team would be happier with ChicagoBoss.  Going with a general purpose framework will allow you to more easily grow into your real requirements :)

   

As I had mentioned previously we are building a site that is similar to Trip Advisor but for the online gambling
industry, so if we are going to be starting from scratch with CB and would have to create all the following modules

1. CMS (with all the standard functionality such as seo modules, RSS feeds, support for media embedding
2. Forum
3. Social Media integration (Facebook login and registration and profile synching)
4. Review modules

Could something like this be done in 6 months with 4-5 developers using CB?

You should have a good start in 6 months, but it seems a little naive to think that you will be at parity with a site like Trip Advisor that has been under development for years.

 

Regards

-- Nick

[Karim Dahmani]

Nick thanks for your valuable input,

My developers are already getting up to speed and are loving CB/Erlang, Elixir is next.
As far as developing the product I described in 6 months that is obviously not going to be the
full feature set of Trip Advisor as we don't even need that much, only the components I mentioned
above.

Thanks,
Karim

[Nick Pavlica]

Karim,

On Tuesday, January 28, 2014 5:02:42 PM UTC-7, Karim Dahmani wrote:

Nick thanks for your valuable input,

My developers are already getting up to speed and are loving CB/Erlang, Elixir is next.

  Awesome,  happy they are loving it!  

As far as developing the product I described in 6 months that is obviously not going to be the
full feature set of Trip Advisor as we don't even need that much, only the components I mentioned
above.

  Thanks for the clarification!  Please share the site with us when your ready!

   -- Nick

[Karim Dahmani]

We definitely will, and hope to contribute a lot to ChicagoBoss as we grow our team

[Karim Dahmani]

Nick one more quick question, do you think Riak would be the best choice as far as databases to use with CB?

[Nick Pavlica]

Karim,

On Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:49:38 PM UTC-7, Karim Dahmani wrote:

Nick one more quick question, do you think Riak would be the best choice as far as databases to use with CB?

If a NoSQLDB is right for your project, Riak would be a good choice.  However, Postgresql also has allot to offer as well.

-- Nick

[Karim Dahmani]

Thanks! Much appreciated!