Zion Discussion - OOC

[Chris B]

Hi guys,

I wanted to take some time before our game on Sunday to find out your opinion on the direction of the game in Zion City.

If we look at the cast of characters, they all appear to be independent minded people who shun authority.  Unfortunately, I've been trying to make the police a friend to the group to help them mesh into the landscape, when I should have been steering the NPCs as antagonists for the group.  This is my fault, and I'm hoping to correct this.

It seems the PCs would work better as an independent group of vigilantes that get together to face down a large threat, then go their separate ways until the next large threat.  Sort of like Marvel's Defenders (with Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Daredevil, and Jessica Jones). 

If this is your view as well, please let me know on here.  If you see the group as something different then also please state that.  I'm trying to determine the direction that the "team" (i.e. group of PCs) will go, and it seems each and every one is independent minded.  Thus, I want to know your vision for Zion.  What direction should we go?

Thanks for your input!  I greatly value your thoughts!!

 - Chris B.

[Kane Maximus]

Right now this is how Kane see's the group - 

Karelia - outspoken and means well, she just doesn't have the experience. Kane thinks she should invite her relatives over more often.

Luke - is just looking for a fun time. Kane sees him as a frat college student looking for the next party.

Bellz - tries to get things done but has such a bad reputation that Kane has a hard time being seen with her.

Allen - no idea who this is. Kane never had any time to interact with him.

Captain Davison - No idea who that is and Kane has never associated with her :)

As for the direction - I believe before we started this campaign we weren't looking to join an organization (Guardians). Then once the game started players started filling out paperwork to join Guardians. Then once the players discovered Guardians was full we wanted to start our own group. We also wanted to do this in a city that had no known meta's running around. We then moved to Zion for I believe 3 weeks now? We still have no official team and no team name but it is obvious that the group does want to form some type of team.

From what I see as a direction is - we have none. I think we are just randomly doing things until we fall into something.

As for Kane's direction - He is willing to be part of a team or something similar but he does care about his reputation. So if someone goes rogue Kane will disassociate himself from them.

[Ian Sheadel]

Solid outline Kane.  Classic dilemma.  I believe I have no input on this question at this time and will go with the general consensus at whatever point I hop in (i.e. January 12th).

~Ian

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[Chris Goodwin]

Hi all, I might not be able to make it this coming Sunday after all.  I should know by Saturday for sure and will update then.  If I can't make it then I'll pay for the room the next time.  

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[Patrick Swann]

I think the biggest thing we need is a direction to go in. I like the idea of being a team of vigilantes, but, right now, we feel like a team of random people. We have no purpose, no obvious goal. We came to Zion to be superheros, but there doesn't seem to be much in the realm of supervillains for us to fight. I think the best thing would be a big bad guy that all the characters just know needs to be stopped.

[Mark Jones]

Belladonna's view of the PCs:

Kane - she thought he'd be the most troublesome initially. Now she sees him as flighty and self-obsessed (all the social media stuff and being a clotheshorse), but not prone to causing trouble, if only because he cares about his image. Pretty impulsive, but that can be managed.

Luke - a troublemaker, and very close to being more trouble than he's worth as a teammate.

Karellia - ditto. She's got a real chip on her shoulder about family and authority figures.

Alan - Hardly even knows he exists.

Captain Davidson - persona non grata, and fortunately not her problem any longer.

I think the Defenders approach might be the best one. I don't see these characters really jelling into a team. Independent actors who work together when necessary might be easier to manage. If we take the Luke Cage/Iron First "Heroes for Hire" approach, we could maybe find a niche as troubleshooters.

Your city having trouble with superpowered thugs? Don't have a local superteam of your own? Your problem too small for the famous superteams (who are busy with bigger threats)? Call our guys. We'll come deal with the problem, then--bonus!--we'll LEAVE again. (This approach might mean we travel to various cities for adventures; not everything would happen in Zion.)

It would also allow for players like variety (I'm looking at you, John, and you, Patrick) to swap in new characters occasionally for one-shots or try-outs, maybe as local heroes who need some help with a big problem.

Anyhow, that's my two cents. I don't think the PCs we have are going to work as a formal team. This might work, though.

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[Kane Maximus]

 

Just me reading into what Mark, Patrick and myself put up here.

Patrick - we have no goal so we will not work together.

Mark - The PC's just don't jell together to work together.

Me - has difficulty being associated with some PC's

What needs to be done:

PC's either need to be modified to fit into the group or PC's need to accept other PC's flaws.

We as players have a huge roll in making sure our characters get along The GM should only assist us with stabilizing that connection. 

As such I will be the first to ask what is it about Kane that needs to be modified to fit along with everyone else?

Someone will need to choose to give guidance to the group, some sort of direction. I can modify Kane to do this if no one else does but someone will need to do this.

[Patrick Swann]

I think Kane should be around more and focus less on his schedule. Also maybe turn off the phone.

We all seem to have made characters that aren't hero-minded.

I suppose I'm next. What needs to be changed about Luke? I'm already planning to be a little less mischievous with him.

[Mark Jones]

I don't think Kane is a problem. He has a busy schedule outside of superheroing, but he flies so fast that he's never far from the action. I/Belladonna thought he might be a problem, but he hasn't been. At worst, he flies off before the police show up.

Which is, frankly, far better than actively antagonizing the police, refusing their commands, or worse. That's the sticking point. I don't mind Luke being mischevious, or Karellia having a chip on her shoulder about her family. But unless the group wants to be frozen out (at best) or actively hunted (at worst) by the authorities, we need to be able to cooperate with the authorities.

Either that, or go full-on A-TEAM, operating in secret, pursued by the authorities every time we show up in public. Just be prepared for "the authorities" to include superteams from Evergreen City, Gotham, Millennium City, or elsewhere. That's a viable campaign approach, if that's what we decide to do. 

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[Patrick Swann]

I would prefer to be an officially sanctioned team, but I have a hard time imagining anyone in charge hiring us as we are now. So maybe an A-Team approach would be the best.

[Kane Maximus]

 I think Kane should be around more and focus less on his schedule.

I'll take this one step further in a positive direction - If we have down time I'll drag other characters with me (if they have nothing better to do).

Also maybe turn off the phone.

Is it the live streaming that Luke can't handle or are you talking about just powering down our phones off in general? 

We all seem to have made characters that aren't hero-minded.

I can't see this statement as being true.

I think Luke is hero driven. He doesn't like to see people hurt and is always attempting to heal them.

I suppose I'm next. What needs to be changed about Luke? I'm already planning to be a little less mischievous with him.

I think his mischievousness adds flavor to Luke. I think the big thing is he doesn't know the difference in authority figures and tends to provoke them. You will need to put a handle on this aspect of your character. 

I would prefer to be an officially sanctioned team, but I have a hard time imagining anyone in charge hiring us as we are now.

This is why we are discussing this. I do agree with you on this Patrick as I think the mentality of the group fits better in an official structure.

Belladonna thought he might be a problem, but he hasn't been. At worst, he flies off before the police show up.

This is what our group was originally suppose to do but it has become obvious that we are more inclined to work with the police and other city/governments agencies than around them.

unless the group wants to be frozen out (at best) or actively hunted (at worst) by the authorities, we need to be able to cooperate with the authorities. 

Either that, or go full-on A-TEAM, operating in secret, pursued by the authorities every time we show up in public. Just be prepared for "the authorities" to include superteams from Evergreen City, Gotham, Millennium City, or elsewhere. That's a viable campaign approach, if that's what we decide to do. 

Going down this path can be extremely dangerous. I could see us completely de-railing the game, fighting against other heroes and possibly becoming villains ourselves. 

Our character would need to have a very organized mentality. Such things as Code against killing, Justice not law, protective of innocents, etc....and we would need to actually follow these complications *cough Frank*

I think working within the law will continue to give us a good stable structure to stay within these bounds of being "good"

[Mark Jones]

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On Tuesday, December 24, 2019 10:14 AM, Kane Maximus <portlan...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think his mischievousness adds flavor to Luke. I think the big thing is he doesn't know the difference in authority figures and tends to provoke them. You will need to put a handle on this aspect of your character. 

Yeah, if Luke can be less antagonistic toward the cops, his overall mischeviousness and sassiness is fine (lots of classic heroes are smartasses).

Belladonna thought he might be a problem, but he hasn't been. At worst, he flies off before the police show up.

This is what our group was originally suppose to do but it has become obvious that we are more inclined to work with the police and other city/governments agencies than around them.

Was it? I never had that idea. That said, that could work for me. We show up, save the day, then rush off before the cops show up.

unless the group wants to be frozen out (at best) or actively hunted (at worst) by the authorities, we need to be able to cooperate with the authorities. 

Either that, or go full-on A-TEAM, operating in secret, pursued by the authorities every time we show up in public. Just be prepared for "the authorities" to include superteams from Evergreen City, Gotham, Millennium City, or elsewhere. That's a viable campaign approach, if that's what we decide to do. 

Going down this path can be extremely dangerous. I could see us completely de-railing the game, fighting against other heroes and possibly becoming villains ourselves. 

Our character would need to have a very organized mentality. Such things as Code against killing, Justice not law, protective of innocents, etc....and we would need to actually follow these complications *cough Frank*

I think working within the law will continue to give us a good stable structure to stay within these bounds of being "good"

Yeah, I don't really want to do the A-Team approach, but I thought I'd throw it out there as a possibility. I prefer either "sanctioned" (officially or unofficially) team that cooperates with the police, or more classic superheroes, who have no official standing, but don't fight the cops or kill people, and tend to avoid the cops so as not to come into conflict with them.

[Chris B]

As an aside, I think becoming "sanctioned" won't be a problem, as I've floated the idea that Sentinel LLC would be willing to expand, for a fee, to any city that actively requests "protection". 

In this case, the Sentinels would first search for local heroes that might fit the requirements, as it's better to have someone who knows the local culture before importing new people to fill the positions.  However, the heroes would need to prove their experience helping people and taking down the "bad guy".  Much like the interviews the Guardians did in Gotham.  That was a turning point for the team, after which we gelled into a cohesive unit.  The good news for this concept is that Erulim is on the ground with these supers, and he can testify to their effectiveness in battle and desire to protect innocents.

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[Chris Goodwin]

Hi all, I am going to be there on Sunday after all.  I'll pay for the room.

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[Chris B]

That sounds great Chris. Let us know if we can do anything for you. 

I hope your mom is resting well. 

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[Chris B]

Hi Guys,

I wanted to take a little time to discuss the team dynamic at this point.

I think it's important to advance the narrative that the Zion group will be a team after this adventure.  The group risked their souls (not just lives, but souls) to venture into Hell to rescue a single teammate.  Surviving an engagement/battle/deployment tends to solidify the bonds between people, many times to the point of becoming brothers/sisters if not automatic friends.  Thus regardless of what happens, the survivors will become close.  Whether you role play that out or we just hand wave it and say it is so.  This is the normal human reaction to being in combat with others.  You become a band of brothers.  As such, be prepared to act this way toward each other in game.

To that end, you will need a team name.  Start thinking about who you are as a group.

Now, in the last session, I saw the right actions (reconnoiter the house/brothel, infiltrate, confront the madam).  However, I think the wrong people were tasked with doing each of these actions.

I planned on y'all getting to the madam by one of three means:

1) Act as a client wishing to partake in the services

2) Apply for a position as a call girl

3) Offer a partnership or service to the establishment

You tried the first two, but I think you sent in the wrong person for each task.  Karelia is too timid and "good two shoes" to be a passable call girl.  Instead, Belladonna would have been a better choice, as she is very seductive, streetwise, and has Striking Appearance.  Likewise as the client, Allen was definitely the wrong person.  His complication basically gave him a negative modifier when dealing with these well off business people.  Instead, Jonathan (Erulim) would have been a much more plausible client for this high end establishment.  The reverse is true for the reconnoiter mission.  Allen would excel at that.

Now, I wanted to let you know how I see the characters (thus how the NPCs see the characters, in general):

 - Karelia's core competency is covert ops.  She has lots of Breaking & Entering related skills that make her a master infiltrator.  She is also a master tactician.  Combine this with her straight laced aura and her family's reputation, she would make a great face for the general public and authority figures.

 - Belladonna, on the other hand, is the proverbial bad girl.  She has the skills of a spy; a person who knows the language and culture of the underworld and the cunning to talk her way into any space.  She has the ability to extract knowledge from those she encounters, both verbally and forcibly, and sleuth any problem.  She is the team's detective.

 - Allen is always present but never there.  His ability to blend in and learn many things makes him a great recon specialist.  In the last adventure, he should have been sent to the corner, alone, and when a client left, Allen should have approached him/her, asking for change.  When the client focused on the drunk (in a positive or negative way), Allen could have used his Mind Control and asked the client for the layout of the building, who was where, what's the secret password, and where the madam was.  He is the team's lookout and information broker, with the ability to ask anyone, anything, and extract info without being noticed.  He should also build his contact base, so he knows who to call for whatever the team needs.

 - Kane is the team's pretty boy.  Although he is a Brick in battle, he mainly acts as the conduit for the team's reputation.  He should be the team's PR person, using his fame and good looks to generate a positive image for the team.  He could easily rally his fan base to back the team and provide video and other images to the press.  He should also design the team's uniforms (if you get them).

 - Luke should be the team's conscious.  Being part angel, he knows what is right and should exert himself as the team's moral compass to stay in the grace of God.  However as part demon, he should also rally the team to be chaotic when needed, taking irrational actions and exact revenge on those who are out to hurt the team and the city in which they live.  In this light, he should institute himself as the Judge, trying those whom they face and becoming the harbinger of justice for those who deserve it.  If Luke deems someone's actions justified, then they will be acquitted.  However if he finds the NPC's actions unjustified, then punishment will be pronounced, and depending on the severity of the judgement, the punishment could be light or severe.

 - Erulim (Jonathan).  Jonathan is a "special guest star" for the time being, however since he will have a night club and an apartment building in Zion, he may be a recurring character, depending.  That said, Jonathan, when with the team, is the businessman.  The high roller and guy with the connections to Zion's elite.  He has the clout of a national hero team to sooth the government and the business connections to get what the team needs.  He could become the "man behind the curtain" for the team, sheltering them with his business dealings and acquiring missions for the team to accomplish.  Like I said earlier, he would have been great as a client to infiltrate the brothel, while Belladonna acts a a call girl and Karelia sneaks in through the window.

 - Ohm is the team's mystic.  With a vast knowledge of extra-planar beings and his book store houses a vast array of knowledge.  He is an excellent tracker and master of disguise, in case you need to find someone or make the team look different.  He is also a man of the mind, and has ways to get into your head and under your skin.  As an aside, I can imagine the fun conversations and comic relief between Allen (the drunk homeless guy) and Ohm (the mystical tree-hugging hippie) if this was on television.  

Anyway, this is how I see the PCs and their role in the team.  You don't necessarily need a specific leader, just as long as you come together with mutual respect and concern for each other (in game).  I think the current adventure would provide the catalyst for this in a huge way, thus even if we don't role play the team coalescing, we can state that it has occurred and move forward from there.

Also after the Hell adventure, I will advance time a bit, which will allow the group to have some much needed downtime and allow us the time to say the PCs have gotten to know each other better.  Also, we can also hand wave any administrative things that need to be done (finding living quarters, setup a base, completing the legal issues from the warehouse fiasco, etc).  However, I need to know how much time you would like to have advance.

What do you think?

[Mark Jones]

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On Wednesday, January 15, 2020 11:11 PM, Chris B <chrisj...@gmail.com> wrote:

 - Belladonna, on the other hand, is the proverbial bad girl.  She has the skills of a spy; a person who knows the language and culture of the underworld and the cunning to talk her way into any space.  She has the ability to extract knowledge from those she encounters, both verbally and forcibly, and sleuth any problem.  She is the team's detective.

I considered it (going undercover), but Belladonna has a well-known reputation. I figured it was very likely that she'd be recognized and wouldn't be able to learn anything (short of, you know, stealing someone's memories, which would be rather obvious).

Anyway, this is how I see the PCs and their role in the team.  You don't necessarily need a specific leader, just as long as you come together with mutual respect and concern for each other (in game).  I think the current adventure would provide the catalyst for this in a huge way, thus even if we don't role play the team coalescing, we can state that it has occurred and move forward from there.

Yeah, I agree that we don't need a formal leader. Or even a formal team structure, for that matter. Anyone who uncovers (or stumbles across a threat) can just rally the others to help deal with it.

Also after the Hell adventure, I will advance time a bit, which will allow the group to have some much needed downtime and allow us the time to say the PCs have gotten to know each other better.  Also, we can also hand wave any administrative things that need to be done (finding living quarters, setup a base, completing the legal issues from the warehouse fiasco, etc).  However, I need to know how much time you would like to have advance.

What do you think?

I'll have to think about it before I decide how much time I'd like to have pass.

[Chris B]

On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 11:21 AM Mark Jones <mark.s...@protonmail.com> wrote:

I considered it (going undercover), but Belladonna has a well-known reputation. I figured it was very likely that she'd be recognized and wouldn't be able to learn anything (short of, you know, stealing someone's memories, which would be rather obvious).

True, the succubus may know her reputation (the general public doesn't I don't think, just those in power).  Thus if a known assassin roles in and asked to speak to the madam about any "work" she may need, then Lina would likely have found the offer intriguing and asked Alice what sort of work she had in mind.  😈

Yeah, I agree that we don't need a formal leader. Or even a formal team structure, for that matter. Anyone who uncovers (or stumbles across a threat) can just rally the others to help deal with it.

I agree, if we go with the concept that the characters are friends, who bond and spend time together .  In Evergreen, this isn't the case.  Most of the team feels it's a job, thus a more formal structure is required.

[Kane Maximus]

I think it's important to advance the narrative that the Zion group will be a team after this adventure.

Kane speaking to Jonathan:

"They want to be a team but they don't know why they want to be a team." (*)

Mark's response:

I agree that we don't need a formal leader. Or even a formal team structure, for that matter.

I agree for now as the group wants to be a team but it still doesn't feel right to be one just yet.

I think having some type of base might bring us together a bit more. 

  the survivors will become close.

So either a TPK or we become mind controlled to be close?

I say let it happen naturally. If we become closer great if not then we are just people with each other's phone numbers.

I planned on y'all getting to the madam by one of three means...

One thing to always expect is the unexpected from gamers. The game will never play out the way you expect it.

Kane is the team's pretty boy.  Although he is a Brick in battle, he mainly acts as the conduit for the team's reputation.  He should be the team's PR person, using his fame and good looks to generate a positive image for the team.  He could easily rally his fan base to back the team and provide video and other images to the press.  He should also design the team's uniforms (if you get them).

Never going to happen with Bellz bad rep. As for a uniform he got pulled into hell before he could take care of this. He had a good conversation with Karelia while shopping about this.

As for Kane's connection with the group he went shopping with Karelia so this brought him closer to her (didn't need to go to hell for this).

Kane still doesn't know Allen that well and I can't see them having that much in common.

Luke is the prankster that is misunderstood. Kane see's him as the older annoying brother (that gives out nuggies).

Erulim is connecting very well with Kane as he is showing interest in his music career in regards to a night club.

Ohm is about as absentminded as Kane. This might cause some problems later but for now will see where it goes.

Belladonna is great in the field as Kane learned how to do a "recon" and how important it is from her.

(*) Having a blast in Russia.pdf

[Chris B]

Hi Guys,

I wanted to let you know that I really really enjoyed your company in yesterday's game.  Some of the zaniness and the out of character discussion was fun.

I also wanted to let you know I'm not having fun GMing the game.  Instead, I went home yesterday feeling sad, irritated and depressed.  I've felt this way after most of the game sessions since I started as GM again, but I kept pushing forward out of a sense of obligation to you and the group. 

Despite what you may think, I don't believe I'm doing that good of a job as GM.  This means I don't have a lot of motivation to work on the game between sessions, thus most of the ideas are only partially assembled before they are introduced at the table. This has a significant negative impact on the game and further perpetuates my negative feelings.

In addition, the game feels very adversarial, where I'm constantly at odds with the player characters.  I think almost everyone has been arrested by now, and in last night's session, I felt the proper course of action was to evict Alice from her hotel suite, which impacted that character negatively.  The group (in game) has not cohered into a team that wants to do good.  Instead, it seems like they are a group of renegades that are at constant odds with the system, even though the system is trying to work with them.  A case in point, after half the team spent a week or two fight piracy in the name of justice, the first and main idea on how to handle the weapons at sea was to commit an act of piracy.  While I thought about this course of action before the game, I'm not sure why the group didn't work to get a commission of some sort from the government to raid the ship or request to be a part of the Coast Guard search party. 

My role, as GM, is to think about the very worst on people and use that to provide a challenge to the players.  This is a dark space to be in mentally, and the main consolation is when I can be in the lighter spaces of those who help and support the heroes in their mission. Unfortunately, even the support mechanisms need to be antagonistic, so it's all bad.  Do I have the government crack down hard or take an uncharacteristically soft touch?  Will the players be mad if I throw their characters in jail for 10-20 years for their actions?

This last break was great, as I completely forgot about the game and my responsibilities to come up with something to get the adventure back on track.  Someone (Ian or Chris, I think) asked in an email why it was so quiet.  It was in part because I don't feel motivated to play Champions anymore, so I'm not sending things out.  And if the GM goes quiet, the players usually do as well.

I'm sorry for any negative feelings this may create.  I don't want to cause you any pain or sadness.  I do need to ensure I'm not feeling this way each week, either.  So, I think the next session will likely be my last as GM for this campaign.  I can use our current battle to wrap up the weapon smuggling story line, if needed. 

I wanted to let everyone know this early, so there was time for you to discuss who (if anyone) would like to take over as GM of this campaign.  If someone wants to continue it, I can provide them with my ideas and notes, so the adventure(s) can continue.

I'm not making this decision lightly, as I feel like I am letting everyone down.  However, I don't like the anxiety I feel as the weekend looms and the lack of sleep both Saturday (before the game) and Sunday (after the game).  As such, I need to stop playing for a while and recharge.  We can discuss the possibility of my running a different system/genre, but I think I may be tired of GMing in general.  Regardless, I think I may take some time away from the gaming table, all together.  We can talk about it at the next session in two weeks.

Thank you for your time, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on how the campaign should end up.

 - Chris B.

[Chris Goodwin]

Yikes!  

If you're not enjoying it, if it's causing you anxiety, then yes, you should take a break!  The GM is a player too, and should also be having fun.  

Just in case I haven't said it enough, I've been enjoying it.  Thoroughly.  Even during the times when we've gone a little, or a lot, off track.  

We can and should talk about what to do next, here on the Google group and at the next session.  I've got some ideas, but nothing concrete yet; some things I've wanted to try, get some GMing practice in myself.   The next two scheduled sessions are March 8 and March 22; I'm going to try to make both of them.  GameStorm is March 26th through the 29th, so it's possible I might not be able to make it on the 22nd.  I will do my best though.  (I'm GMing a third-edition Hero era Robot Warriors session at GameStorm, and I wouldn't mind throwing down a hex map and some mech minis and running a mech bash in Hero on the 22nd, if I can.  It might not be much more than that, if that's okay.)

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[Mark Jones]

I'm with Chris G, Chris. If you're not having fun, then you should take a break. Just a break from being GM, or a break from gaming, whatever you need.

We'll have to (as a group) decide what we want to do next. If someone is willing to take over and run a game, great. I'm already running one on the alternate Sundays so I can't do it, but maybe someone else is ready to do it. If not, we'll have to brainstorm something else. But either way, it's not on you, Chris, to worry about that. If you want to step back from GMing, you don't need our permission. Take care of yourself.

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[Chris Goodwin]

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 3:01 PM Mark Jones <mark.s...@protonmail.com> wrote:

I'm with Chris G, Chris. If you're not having fun, then you should take a break. Just a break from being GM, or a break from gaming, whatever you need.

We'll have to (as a group) decide what we want to do next. If someone is willing to take over and run a game, great. I'm already running one on the alternate Sundays so I can't do it, but maybe someone else is ready to do it. If not, we'll have to brainstorm something else. But either way, it's not on you, Chris, to worry about that.

100%.  We got this.  I'm totally up for running a one-shot of Giant Robots vs. Kaiju using Robot Warriors (Hero System) on March 22nd, unless (a) everyone else says no way, and (b) someone else suggests something.  

 

If you want to step back from GMing, you don't need our permission. Take care of yourself.

100% as well.  Your health is more important than the game!  

Chris G.

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Chris Goodwin

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[Ian Sheadel]

First off Chris,  thank you for letting us know. I know you were probably feeling anxious about that.  

It's also been pretty obvious that you've been getting worked up or stressed out and there's no need to push through any kind of pain or upset.  As Chris G said, take care of yourself.  

I'm one of the people with a background/interest in GMing but it's questionable whether can/will.  If I did, it would definitely be my only game. And while I'd enjoy GMing, I wouldn't be able to consistently give alot of priority to it which would mean being a bit off the cuff and I'm not sure that would be fair to the group...

That said, I could set up a shorter run of (4? 5?) sessions to run without getting into a longterm commitment.  I'll start giving that more thought and maybe let Chris G do some one-offs in the meantime!

Thanks again.  You have done a great job.  Looking forward to talking more soon.

~Ian

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[Kane Maximus]

If you need to stop running then stop running. 

As for needing to put in your two weeks notice - you don't need to do that, this isn't work. If you don't want to run then stop - don't make it worse by doing something you don't want to do for another Sunday.

If you need to recharge and completely take off from the game table - then do it. Do something you enjoy doing. It's your free time that you earned throughout the week, make sure you spend it the way you want to. 

Go bowling, read a comic book, watch a movie, play a video game, play hockey, play with the dog, whatever it might be - just make sure you enjoy it.

As for the direction of play:

We have been down this path many times. We will discuss what type of systems that are out there and it will eventually loop back to Champion/hero system. So I would rather not waste time discussing new systems. Our group is a Heroes system group.

For some of you I ran a hero system fantasy game and everyone seemed to enjoy it. I think it was only 3 game sessions in total.

I would be willing to continue this if everyone enjoys a different setting.

If everyone is good with super heroes then we could continue Gotham. 

We also have Chris G to run "Giant Robots vs. Kaiju using Robot Warriors" which is also hero systems for a one shot game.

Ian has also brought up he wouldn't mind running (I assume hero system also) a game for a few sessions (will the Easter Bunny return?)

Patrick I believe runs Pathfinder so I'm going to throw that out as some of the group doesn't like d20.

Frank doesn't like to run.

Mark is already running a current game so he's out as well.

If we vote for Chris G we will need an alterative for an additional person to run after the one game.

Ian would be good for a couple of games so we would also need another person to run after his games.

Which can either lead to Chris B running after Chris G and Ian run (3 or 4 sessions?).

Or I could just run one right at the bat (no pun intended batman). I could be ready by 02/07/20 if need be.

That all being said I do enjoy running but I enjoy playing more. Since I do play in Mark's game I am getting enjoyment out. Chris B has also given me the break I needed (Thanks Chris  for putting up with Kane)

I am going to be a bit conceited with my vote but I would like to vote for myself to run next (either game is fine).

[Chris B]

Thank you, everyone, for your support.  I feel awful about this; because, it causes you problems.

Since I have a personal need to finish what I start, I want to run the game next session (March 8th).  This way we can either get Zion in a place where it can sit on a shelf for a bit or someone else can take over.

On that note, if you, Ian, or you, Chris, want to run a few session in (or around) Zion, I can give you the info on the homeless camp thing and the death of the fashion designer.  I can also pass on the links for the gun runners.  This way, you can run the game (as is) for a couple of sessions using the adventures we currently have (since neither specifically need Karelia or Ohm).

I don't think I've earned the right to play in Gotham yet, as we are only a third of the way through my watch as GM (this will be the 8th session, and four months Nov-Feb), so I don't think I will be playing The Ranger for a bit (at least until I've been GM for another four months [8 sessions]). I don't think I can get into character, and I'm sure I would feel guilty, thus I will be a meek player.  Since the team needs the Ranger to be a strong leader to keep it moving and together, it probably wouldn't work out.  Plus, you will need to work with Ian to change Erulim, which might be contentious.

John, you deserve more of a break than four months, and it's not right to make you GM this soon.  If the others can run for a couple of months, I can probably pick it back up and finish my shift.

Again, I apologize for dropping this on your lap.

[Ian Sheadel]

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 19:19 Chris B <chrisj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you, everyone, for your support.  I feel awful about this; because, it causes you problems.

It seems like everyone is fine with this and we just want to maximize mutual enjoyment of all involved.

Since I have a personal need to finish what I start, I want to run the game next session (March 8th).  This way we can either get Zion in a place where it can sit on a shelf for a bit or someone else can take over.

I appreciate your accountability and commitment.

On that note, if you, Ian, or you, Chris, want to run a few session in (or around) Zion, I can give you the info on the homeless camp thing and the death of the fashion designer.  I can also pass on the links for the gun runners.  This way, you can run the game (as is) for a couple of sessions using the adventures we currently have (since neither specifically need Karelia or Ohm).

It is my opinion that once we've wrapped this in a bow, we should leave it on the shelf.  This is your campaign, your story, and whether or not we ever go back to it, I at least would leave it under your ownership.  If I took it over, it wouldn't be MY story and I also wouldn't have as much fun with it.  

I don't think I've earned the right to play in Gotham yet, as we are only a third of the way through my watch as GM

I believe this is a 'rule' that you're placing on yourself and no one else has such a demand.  I obviously understand the spirit but you're placing an expectation on yourself that assumes you're John, or have to meet some debt to us, which is not true, as far as I can tell.  We all want to enjoy each others company and create stories.  That's the whole goal.  Maybe John loves running alot more than you and has a different endurance level.  That's okay.  If we're not all having fun, then we're doing it wrong and I don't believe you have anything to prove to anyone.

(this will be the 8th session, and four months Nov-Feb), so I don't think I will be playing The Ranger for a bit (at least until I've been GM for another four months [8 sessions]). I don't think I can get into character, and I'm sure I would feel guilty, thus I will be a meek player.  Since the team needs the Ranger to be a strong leader to keep it moving and together, it probably wouldn't work out.  Plus, you will need to work with Ian to change Erulim, which might be contentious.

Maybe. Probably not.  Either way the question is simply "What maximizes our joy".

John, you deserve more of a break than four months, and it's not right to make you GM this soon.  If the others can run for a couple of months, I can probably pick it back up and finish my shift.

It sounds like John is pretty totally on board with running again and voted for himself (conceitedly, haha).  If he does need/want/could use more of a break we (Chris G and I) could totally fill in for a couple months.

You can finish it up if you actually wanted to, but it very much sounds like you're saying that out of obligation and not out of joy...and there is literally zero obligation for you to match some set expectation, especially if you're really not feeling it and it is therefore causing non-joy to take hold.  No need for it. 

Again, I apologize for dropping this on your lap.

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[Kane Maximus]

 Since I have a personal need to finish what I start, I want to run the game next session (March 8th).  

Sorry Chris - as a friend I will not allow you to run the next game as you just told us how it is making you feel currently.

Zion is closed for now - you can always pick up at any point in the future but for now you are officially on break (until the doctors let you off the cruise ship ).

[Chris B]

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 7:50 PM Kane Maximus <portlan...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Since I have a personal need to finish what I start, I want to run the game next session (March 8th).  

Sorry Chris - as a friend I will not allow you to run the next game as you just told us how it is making you feel currently.

Zion is closed for now - you can always pick up at any point in the future but for now you are officially on break (until the doctors let you off the cruise ship 😂).

Well, funny you should mention the doctors.  I spoke to my psychologist about it (yeah, I got one of those now), and he agreed it would be a good idea for me to finish the battle, and thus the adventure.  It's a third of the way through my shift, and I planned on wrapping up the Bullet Mob adventure very soon, anyway. 

Then it won't be on my mind in the future (as I will keep thinking about it until it happens) and I will have had a full 8 session then (which is the official 33% mark).

As such, finishing the adventure will be more of a benefit for me than if we left it hanging, as I know I'd need to come right back to that exact moment at some point in the future.

[Kane Maximus]

I have no idea what type of psychologist your dealing with but when someone is hurt they get benched.

I'm treating this the same way as anyone on my hockey team.

My player - "My knee is locked and I feel shooting pain"

Me - "You need to sit out the period until you feel better"

My player - "But it's 3rd period and we only have 2 defense players"

Me - "will we survive. It isn't worth your health."

I've done this a few times with different players and different injuries.

You -

"I also wanted to let you know I'm not having fun GMing the game. I went home yesterday feeling sad, irritated and depressed. I've felt this way after most of the game sessions since I started as GM again, but I kept pushing forward out of a sense of obligation to you and the group. "

"This has a significant negative impact on the game and further perpetuates my negative feelings."

"I don't feel motivated to play Champions anymore"

"I don't like the anxiety I feel as the weekend looms and the lack of sleep both Saturday (before the game) and Sunday (after the game)."

No doctor in their right mind is going to tell you to continue doing something that does you harm (mentally or physically).

You are now benched from running until you feel better.

For our next game Chris G will run then I will start up my Forgotten Realms game.

[Chris Goodwin]

My vote is to let Chris B finish out the combat session.  I could run on the 7th but it would be easier for me to push out to the 22nd, and Chris, if it's helpful to you to not leave it unfinished, I'm game if you are.

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[Patrick Swann]

My vote is to finish the combat on the 8th. Chris, if you need to finish the combat, then let's finish it. As someone who has dealt with anxiety and depression in the past, I can say closure can do a lot of good.

-Patrick

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From: champions-of-...@googlegroups.com <champions-of-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chris Goodwin <cgoodw...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:51:56 AM
To: Kane Maximus <portlan...@gmail.com>
Cc: CHAMPIONS of the Northwest <champions-of-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Zion Discussion - OOC

 

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[Mark Jones]

Or we could just handwave it. "The PCs defeated the bullet gang a pitched battle, and called in the authorities (including the ATF) and the bad guys are all now in jail. Mission accomplished."

That means Chris doesn't have to run another game session, and can just enjoy playing someone else's game.

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[Chris B]

Well, that was fast...

[Ian Sheadel]

I'm glad to hear that John is up to the challenge of picking back up as GM. 

I'd also like to throw out there, for your voting pleasure, that I have a solid outline of the next handful of sessions of the campaign I had started a while back.  It will not likely be a long-term campaign as we have been doing, but I have a storyline I would love to get out and would probably run some 7 or 8 sessions if I don't stretch it out, bringing us up to about June.  With the conception built up the way it is, I feel I could do it justice and would have adequate time for the investment of building and planning along the way.

That said, Chris, are we cool with blue-booking the wrap up?  Opening the 8th for Chris' Mecha vs Kaiju Battle?

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 7:50 PM Kane Maximus <portlan...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Since I have a personal need to finish what I start, I want to run the game next session (March 8th).  

Sorry Chris - as a friend I will not allow you to run the next game as you just told us how it is making you feel currently.

Zion is closed for now - you can always pick up at any point in the future but for now you are officially on break (until the doctors let you off the cruise ship 😂).

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[Chris B]

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 5:47 AM Ian Sheadel <shead...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm glad to hear that John is up to the challenge of picking back up as GM. 

I'd also like to throw out there, for your voting pleasure, that I have a solid outline of the next handful of sessions of the campaign I had started a while back.  It will not likely be a long-term campaign as we have been doing, but I have a storyline I would love to get out and would probably run some 7 or 8 sessions if I don't stretch it out, bringing us up to about June.  With the conception built up the way it is, I feel I could do it justice and would have adequate time for the investment of building and planning along the way.

If you are ready to go, Ian, your game would be the best answer to the schedule gap.  Plus it would fill a lot of time, giving everyone an opportunity to  discuss further gaming options/schedules.

I'm concerned that at the moment, Chris needs to be ready two weeks before he planned, which is too aggressive, especially since this one-shot is for Game Storm and not us.  He should have the time he needs to get it right before the convention.  He offered March 22nd, and this is a gift.  We shouldn't force him into a timeline he isn't ready for.

 

That said, Chris, are we cool with blue-booking the wrap up? 

I guess I have to be, as I don't have a choice.  I've been relieved of my duties, regardless of my request to finish, thus I suppose I stand relieved.  As for how I feel about that, I prefer not to comment at this time, as I regret my initial email on Monday.

 - Chris B.

 

[Ian Sheadel]

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 10:14 Chris B <chrisj...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 5:47 AM Ian Sheadel <shead...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm glad to hear that John is up to the challenge of picking back up as GM. 

I'd also like to throw out there, for your voting pleasure, that I have a solid outline of the next handful of sessions of the campaign I had started a while back.  It will not likely be a long-term campaign as we have been doing, but I have a storyline I would love to get out and would probably run some 7 or 8 sessions if I don't stretch it out, bringing us up to about June.  With the conception built up the way it is, I feel I could do it justice and would have adequate time for the investment of building and planning along the way.

If you are ready to go, Ian, your game would be the best answer to the schedule gap.  Plus it would fill a lot of time, giving everyone an opportunity to  discuss further gaming options/schedules.

I'm concerned that at the moment, Chris needs to be ready two weeks before he planned, which is too aggressive, especially since this one-shot is for Game Storm and not us.  He should have the time he needs to get it right before the convention.  He offered March 22nd, and this is a gift.  We shouldn't force him into a timeline he isn't ready for.

I didn't realize the aggressiveness of the timeline.  There are other options including:  

-Skipping it altogether

-Giving you a fully played catharsis

-Me doing a one-shot

-Other games, other things...

-(It seems unfeasible to launch my campaign or John's campaign so quickly especially given people will probably fiddle with characters)

 

That said, Chris, are we cool with blue-booking the wrap up? 

I guess I have to be, as I don't have a choice.  I've been relieved of my duties, regardless of my request to finish, thus I suppose I stand relieved.  As for how I feel about that, I prefer not to comment at this time, as I regret my initial email on Monday.

It sounded like a question, rather than a demand to me. My impression was that it was offered as a way to pull you out of the stressor.  My vote would be to go with whichever way would cause the best catharsis in laying this puppy to rest.  I know if it were me, I'd prefer to have a final closer for even a challenging run and it sounded like that's what you had intended/wanted.  I also see that we might be approaching the 'beating a dead horse' phase and I'm happy to move on in whichever direction we land on.

 

 

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[Kane Maximus]

 

I didn't realize the aggressiveness of the timeline.  There are other options including:  

-Skipping it altogether

-Giving you a fully played catharsis

-Me doing a one-shot

-Other games, other things...

-(It seems unfeasible to launch my campaign or John's campaign so quickly especially given people will probably fiddle with characters)

I reached out to Chris G before throwing him into the fire and he seemed confident that he would be setup for the 7th. He has details as to the mechs build and structure and damage of weapons. (some really good stuff in there that would be great to incorporate into our normal champions games).

If Chris G finds he doesn't have enough time to get this all together for the 7th we have the following possibilities

Ian continues his game (only Chris G, Chris B would need to design characters - Easter Bunny here I come!)

John continues his game (only Chris B and Ian would need to design characters)

If no one wants any of the above we can just skip the 7th.

Ian I'm not sure how long it takes for you to prepare for a game but I figured it would take some time that's why I'm jumping in to run the Forgotten Realms until you are ready.

For those that have not played in the Forgotten Realms game yet that I run - Frank provides me with modules that he has purchased to run (typically D&D). I convert it into hero system and BAM instant storyline/game. That is why I've run this at odd times when games get canceled due to scheduling conflict or other issues. The game is simple and easy to put together.

As for beating the dead horse...

Chris B didn't post a simple thread "Hey guys I'm going to need a break from running a while. My last game will be our next game session. Can someone else pick up after that?"

He posted a very serious in depth write up that shouldn't be ignored and will not be ignored (you really should re-read what he said and you can clearly see the recent harm it is doing to him). I cannot fathom putting a friend through all the latest conflicts within his life to simple entertain me and the rest of the group for one more Sunday (simple because he feels obligated - which is why he would say he would go through the pain to run one more game. Ethically I just can't allow this to happen).

Chris B - you ran a good game and everyone enjoyed it. Now enjoy the car ride while someone else drives.

[Chris B]

Hi everyone,

Thank you again for all of your support.

It seems Ian is probably going to step in as GM and restart his gaming world, which is great!  Thanks Ian!

As such, I feel comfortable asking if I could take a few sessions off to regenerate.  I want to take March and April off (4 sessions) to spend time with my family and step away from the table for a bit.  Then, I want to return in May (May 3rd) to continue with Zion.  Kaitlynn has some activities on Sundays in March (and maybe April) that would necessitate my being a little late to the game sessions, anyway (11am - 12:30PM, I think).  

Here is the schedule I'm thinking about:

 - Take March and April off from the game table and do something other than gaming.

 - Return May and run Zion from May - August (and if needed a into September?).

 - September - February return to Gotham, play a different game, take some time off, etc.

 - Return to Zion (with me GMing) March - August.

I was hoping to see if I could reserve part of Spring and the Summer months to be a dedicated time for me to run the game (regardless of what we all decide as a game/setting/etc).  After John ended Gotham, I felt compelled to step up and GM, since it seemed I was the last person available for that role.  I didn't want to and I wasn't ready, but I was concerned the group would dissolve if I didn't GM.  This is why it was more of an obligation instead of a desire.  I'm not trying to besmirch anyone by saying that, just sharing my thoughts at the time.  

However, I want to fix this by letting everyone know that as long as you are willing to play, I plan to GM Champions (or something else if the whole group decides) starting in the spring through the summer.  Summer is easier on me, as Fall and winter are my absolute busiest at work.  Mix this with the poor weather (seasonal depression, as I'm from the Sunshine State :P), the holidays, and other family concerns (school functions mainly), and autumn and winter are a stressful time to add the GM load.  Plus, I seem happiest in the summer, here in Portland.  

As such, I was hoping to reserve this timeframe for my game.  The rest of the year, someone else can GM, we can play board games, or simply not gather if we want a break.  Thus, we know we will always have a game mid-year, even if we disband for the other months for some reason.  In addition, with a fairly standard schedule, I will be able to properly prepare and get motivated for the upcoming game, which will allow my stress level to be much lower.

In summary, thanks to Ian stepping in for a while, I'm comfortable requesting time off for about 4 sessions, knowing you are in good hands (thanks Ian!).  This will give me time to recharge and properly setup the rest of the main adventure (and the side adventures I have thought about), so I will be rested and prepared come May.  In addition, it will keep us on schedule to revisit Gotham (hopefully) in the autumn.  I am also requesting to reserve the mid-spring and summer months (April-August) for my game going forward (with March being flexible either way).  This will ensure I have a set schedule for GMing and we have a game to look forward to, regardless of what happens in the intervening months.

Please let me know your thoughts, and thanks again for your kindness!

 - Chris B.

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