Patient Endpoints Published

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Jenni Syed (Cerner)

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Aug 1, 2018, 2:27:35 PM8/1/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers

We would like to announce that an initial list of our production patient endpoints for the Meaningful Use API are now available. You can find them here: https://github.com/cerner/ignite-endpoints

 

Currently, this list is not a complete list of all our clients with the FHIR/Ignite endpoints, the work to get all clients added is ongoing. This list will be updated periodically with new endpoints as well as updates or corrections to existing endpoints. We recommend that you watch our git history if you would like to receive notifications when the list is updated.

To consume this from a service, we recommend that you use the GitHub API


Let us know if you have any questions.

Michele Mottini

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Aug 1, 2018, 2:47:28 PM8/1/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers, Lee Manchester
Fantastic! Thanks!

...but of course I do have a question: are the registered app already white-listed for these end points? Or should we ask the individual provider to white list them?

  - Michele
  CareEvolution Inc

Jenni Syed (Cerner)

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Aug 1, 2018, 3:17:56 PM8/1/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers
HI Michele,

Our system still works using whitelists (as opposed to blacklists) and each client has to confirm that they authorize an application to run in the environment.

~ Jenni

Michele Mottini

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Aug 1, 2018, 4:28:12 PM8/1/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers
Got it, thanks Jenni

  - Michele
  CareEvolution Inc

Adrian Gropper

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Aug 1, 2018, 4:47:36 PM8/1/18
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How does this whitelist process work for patient-facing apps? Is the app registration request to Cerner or to a specific hospital endpoint?

Adrian 

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Adrian Gropper MD

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Andrew Torres (Cerner)

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Aug 1, 2018, 7:45:30 PM8/1/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers
Adrian,

The process requires that you engage the health system in order to have the app whitelisted against their Millennium instance. The health system will then reach out to Cerner requesting that we whitelist the application against their Millennium instance. Once Cerner receives the request/approval from the client we will then whitelist the application.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How does this whitelist process work for patient-facing apps? Is the app registration request to Cerner or to a specific hospital endpoint?

Adrian 
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM 'Jenni Syed (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir-developers@googlegroups.com> wrote:
HI Michele,

Our system still works using whitelists (as opposed to blacklists) and each client has to confirm that they authorize an application to run in the environment.

~ Jenni

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Adrian Gropper

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Aug 1, 2018, 8:20:49 PM8/1/18
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How can this possibly work for patient-directed access? Apple (Health) can maybe afford to engage 500 or 5,000 health systems to get whitelisted but almost any other app developer would find this an insurmountable economic barrier. It is also inconsistent with the API Task Force outcome. Open Epic is far from perfect but it is accessible to typical developers and even to motivated individuals using Free / Open Source Software.

How does one go about appealing this process?

Adrian

On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 4:45 PM 'Andrew Torres (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Adrian,

The process requires that you engage the health system in order to have the app whitelisted against their Millennium instance. The health system will then reach out to Cerner requesting that we whitelist the application against their Millennium instance. Once Cerner receives the request/approval from the client we will then whitelist the application.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How does this whitelist process work for patient-facing apps? Is the app registration request to Cerner or to a specific hospital endpoint?

Adrian 
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM 'Jenni Syed (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
HI Michele,

Our system still works using whitelists (as opposed to blacklists) and each client has to confirm that they authorize an application to run in the environment.

~ Jenni

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Adrian Gropper MD

PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.

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Andrew Torres (Cerner)

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Aug 2, 2018, 8:01:08 AM8/2/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers
There is no appeal process to change the current situation. We understand it isn't the best process, and aim towards improving the process.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 7:20:49 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How can this possibly work for patient-directed access? Apple (Health) can maybe afford to engage 500 or 5,000 health systems to get whitelisted but almost any other app developer would find this an insurmountable economic barrier. It is also inconsistent with the API Task Force outcome. Open Epic is far from perfect but it is accessible to typical developers and even to motivated individuals using Free / Open Source Software.

How does one go about appealing this process?

Adrian
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 4:45 PM 'Andrew Torres (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir-developers@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Adrian,

The process requires that you engage the health system in order to have the app whitelisted against their Millennium instance. The health system will then reach out to Cerner requesting that we whitelist the application against their Millennium instance. Once Cerner receives the request/approval from the client we will then whitelist the application.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How does this whitelist process work for patient-facing apps? Is the app registration request to Cerner or to a specific hospital endpoint?

Adrian 
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM 'Jenni Syed (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir-developers@googlegroups.com> wrote:
HI Michele,

Our system still works using whitelists (as opposed to blacklists) and each client has to confirm that they authorize an application to run in the environment.

~ Jenni

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Adrian Gropper MD

PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.

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Adrian Gropper

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Aug 2, 2018, 12:29:15 PM8/2/18
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The ONC Interoperability Summit is next week. There will be three days to discuss improving the process.

Adrian

On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 5:01 AM 'Andrew Torres (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
There is no appeal process to change the current situation. We understand it isn't the best process, and aim towards improving the process.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 7:20:49 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How can this possibly work for patient-directed access? Apple (Health) can maybe afford to engage 500 or 5,000 health systems to get whitelisted but almost any other app developer would find this an insurmountable economic barrier. It is also inconsistent with the API Task Force outcome. Open Epic is far from perfect but it is accessible to typical developers and even to motivated individuals using Free / Open Source Software.

How does one go about appealing this process?

Adrian
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 4:45 PM 'Andrew Torres (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Adrian,

The process requires that you engage the health system in order to have the app whitelisted against their Millennium instance. The health system will then reach out to Cerner requesting that we whitelist the application against their Millennium instance. Once Cerner receives the request/approval from the client we will then whitelist the application.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How does this whitelist process work for patient-facing apps? Is the app registration request to Cerner or to a specific hospital endpoint?

Adrian 
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM 'Jenni Syed (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
HI Michele,

Our system still works using whitelists (as opposed to blacklists) and each client has to confirm that they authorize an application to run in the environment.

~ Jenni

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Adrian Gropper MD

PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.

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Adrian Gropper MD

PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.

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Jay G

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Aug 2, 2018, 6:03:56 PM8/2/18
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This process makes the list even more useless as the data does not have any location/contact info or organization website url to help start the engagement process with these entities. For example, which of the 36,900 results on google represents "ABC Pediatrics"?

Thanks,
Jay
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Adrian Gropper MD

PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.

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Adrian Gropper MD

PROTECT YOUR FUTURE - RESTORE Health Privacy!
HELP us fight for the right to control personal health data.

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Angela Webster

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Aug 3, 2018, 9:27:45 AM8/3/18
to Cerner FHIR Developers
Drew,

This makes sense to whitelist those that are building provider facing application but for a patient facing application this is wrong.  This goes against everything that HHS, CMS, and the ONC are saying.  The MyHealthEData program clearly is about removing these types of barriers.  What about patients who cannot afford an Apple phone?  This policy does not promote interoperability.  Patients should have access to their own health data without hindrance regardless of which EHR their doctor is using.  Epic is making this easy and I hope Cerner will reconsider and do the same.

Thanks,
Angela


On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 6:45:30 PM UTC-5, Andrew Torres (Cerner) wrote:
Adrian,

The process requires that you engage the health system in order to have the app whitelisted against their Millennium instance. The health system will then reach out to Cerner requesting that we whitelist the application against their Millennium instance. Once Cerner receives the request/approval from the client we will then whitelist the application.

Thanks,
Drew

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-5, Adrian Gropper wrote:
How does this whitelist process work for patient-facing apps? Is the app registration request to Cerner or to a specific hospital endpoint?

Adrian 
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 12:17 PM 'Jenni Syed (Cerner)' via Cerner FHIR Developers <cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
HI Michele,

Our system still works using whitelists (as opposed to blacklists) and each client has to confirm that they authorize an application to run in the environment.

~ Jenni

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Kevin Shekleton (Cerner)

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Aug 3, 2018, 12:51:24 PM8/3/18
to cerner-fhir...@googlegroups.com
Hi everyone - thanks for the discourse and passion on this topic. I know it is an important one -- all of us are consumers and access to our health data is important.

This public group was created because we believe that being open and helping developers interact with our APIs at a technical level is very important. This group is monitored by the entire development teams here at Cerner building out our continued support for FHIR, SMART, and other newer interoperability standards that live in and alongside the FHIR ecosystem (eg, things like CDS Hooks). This belief in openness is demonstrated in other related activities like our open source development work (you can learn more at https://engineering.cerner.com/blog/cerners-open-source-contributions-for-interoperability-developers/)

As the purpose of this group is around technical discussions and monitored by the Cerner development teams, we are able to provide development help and technical support when calling these APIs. In the context of this discussion, we took the great feedback here and elsewhere and put together a living document of the 1,193 (and counting!) deployments of Cerner clients with our patient facing SMART and FHIR support (branded as Cerner's Ignite APIs) to better help developers understand each endpoint that exists -- both now and in the future as additional Cerner clients enable support for these APIs. For instance, if your SMART app is running outside of a container (stand alone), then these APIs are a critical bit of information you need.

However, this Google Group and the development teams here cannot speak to non-technical topics. This includes things like our development roadmap or, in this case, decisions related to policies -- both external policies/guidance as well as internal policies Cerner or our clients have. These non-technical topics are best had in other venues and with parties that are better versed in these areas rather than the developers here. Additionally, in many cases, what may seem plain or straightforward often is not and there are many parties and factors at play.

While I think this discussion is great and needs to continue, there will be nothing productive gained in this particular forum so I'm closing off this thread. Thanks for speaking up and while this isn't the right forum to continue this discussion, we really enjoy helping all of you use the APIs and seeing the great things you all are building!

Regards,
Kevin Shekleton (Cerner)
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