Fwd: Jessie S. Yee Memorial Commission 2023

[c...@sonus.ca]

> In honor of Jessie S. Yee, an avid supporter of the arts, Gordon Yee and the Virginia Tech School of Performing Arts are pleased to announce the third annual Yee Commission competition.
>
> Each year, the commission will feature a different ensemble and theme. For this commission, October Sky, an ensemble of Virginia Tech Music faculty, will premiere the new work and the theme is “gratitude”.
>
> Any composer, except previous winners and those affiliated with Virginia Tech, is eligible and all styles of music are welcome.
>
> The commission is $4,000 to compose a new work for the following ensemble:
>
> October Sky:
> Brian Thorsett, tenor
> John Irrera, violin
> Alan Weinstein, cello
> Annie Stevens, percussion
>
> The piece must be composed for the full ensemble and can include electroacoustic music. Up to 134.2 channel spatial audio is available for fixed media and the composer is welcome, or Charles Nichols is available, to perform a live electroacoustic part. The ensemble will premiere the new work on the December 2024 New Music + Technology Festival in the Cube of the Moss Arts Center at Virginia Tech.
>
> At the time of the premiere, the Virginia Tech School of Performing Arts will host the winning composer for a residency, during which they will present their work in a seminar and critique student compositions in a masterclass. The winning composer will also adjudicate student compositions, along with a panel of Virginia Tech music faculty, for the annual Yee Prize student composition competition.
>
> To apply for the commission, each composer should submit one PDF score and one matching MP3 or WAV audio recording of a composition that demonstrates their ability to compose for the ensemble, along with a description of the proposed composition. Information and files must be submitted at https://forms.gle/iXHkVDmXukN6Lrpe9, by December 1, 2022 at 11:59 pm Eastern Time.
>
> Compositions will be adjudicated by a diverse panel of Virginia Tech faculty composers and performers and guest musicians.
>
> Contact Charles Nichols at cs...@vt.edu with any questions.
>
> Previous winners:
>
> 2021: Juhi Bansal
> 2022: Bobby Ge

[Rick]

Hi all,

Sorry about this mundane technical question, but I'm finalising a few things at my home studio and I imagine many of you have been through this already.

I have a fairly well treated room (it's too small, so it will never be perfect or good for mastering, but that's another issue). The speakers I'm using are quite good, but they're linear down to about 80Hz and bottom out at 55Hz.  Normally that would be kind of ok, but I've lost my access to a room with subs to check things against.

I guess the question is 'what can I get away with?' I want to be able to compose (not that you can tell from out there) with confidence, but I'm aware that no matter what, my room won't be at any kind of mastering level.

I think I'll *need* a sub, (and a decent crossover)
But how little can I get away with spending on a sub?
I'm not trying to cheap out, but I want to be practical too. I don't want to start looking at selling a bass guitar or a vintage racing bicycle to finish this off.

I'm looking for off-hand opinions and expert advice but also willing to accept psych counseling and career advice ;)

Best, and many thanks in advance,

Rick

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick Nance
Leicester, UK
rick...@uab.edu

RickNance.org

[EricGO]

Hi Rick,

I have wrestled with the same issues as you for many years. There are those with greater expertise in this area but here’s what works for me. Please excuse me repeating things you already know.

Unless your room is treated for those low frequencies you will never get a good bottom end in there, no matter the quality of sub you choose. The smaller the room the tougher it is. So the trick is to learn what the tools you have give you mix-wise and then how those mixes end up sounding in the real world. Then you compensate where you need to, it becomes second nature. 

So it’s a process of testing your mixes on as many systems and in many places as you can, the car, through earbuds and really cheap monitors. I also bought some Shure SRH1840 headphones and reference them along with using the Sonarworks plugin for headphones. Play favourite mixes in your space and study how they sound. There are many more ways to approach learning your space. 

A fantastic resource is the Sound On Sound magazine Forums. There are some highly skilled mixers in there who are very generous with advice. I have learned so much over the years and my mixes have definitely improved due to their advice and tips. Login to the Forums and search away for any topic or ask away. 

Eric

On Nov 26, 2022, at 6:54 AM, Rick <ri...@uab.edu> wrote:



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CEC-Conference" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cec-conferenc...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/CAM5B-WN8_SLNeNj%3Dv__5q7uTOMB-NTr0ANQEHFwzZejvumLsLg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Rick]

Thanks Eric,

I have used a lot of this trying to perfect a home setup. Sometimes I admit I skip doing a car mix (figuring I'll just compress the heck out of it when it's time or hand that off to someone doing the mastering) and I'm switching between my speakers, the open back and closed headphones (DT1770 and DT1990) but no SonarWorks set up. I haven't ruled Sonarworks out, but I'll get to that after I'm convinced I can't go any further.
I've been using REW to show me what the serious problems are and after having built 12 broadband absorbers and bought a few more, I've tamed some of the low end. Like you said, there's only so much that can be done given the physical space. I will always have a null caused by the boundary interference problem but like you, I just try things a different way, walk around the room, etc., to find out what the set up is and what the mix is.

I'm literally at the last place I can go (I believe) before I have to start looking at low end reinforcement.
Can you tell me if you've found anything that suffices for a controlled range below 80Hz or so? 

Thanks again,

Rick

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/30BFF3BE-8171-46CE-8440-D0CB8F10DC53%40glassorchestra.com.

[EricGO]

Hi Rick,

I haven’t built any as they would take up too much room in my space but I believe large bass traps are the only way to go. They would be filled with what I think you call Rockwool over there, or Roxull Safe and Sound over here. And there is maths involved and probably frequency measurement to find the specific frequencies that are too prominent. You need an expert to deal with it correctly and not waste time and effort. From my experience it’s a deep rabbit hole.

e

On Nov 26, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Rick <rick...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/CAM5B-WN2YtbXyuBwXCUQ4SrTnf9MmzpDHP-YC4_wps9awvrkZw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Alan O'Connell]

Agree with everything Eric is saying. As a side note if you wanted a cheap sub I would recommend Presonus. The bang for buck is fantastic 

Even buy a used one 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/30BFF3BE-8171-46CE-8440-D0CB8F10DC53%40glassorchestra.com.

[Tony Seaton]

Hi Rick

How little can you get away with spending on a sub?

[There's a "million dollar" question!]

I have a small (and not particularly acoustically treated) room, albeit with walls somewhat lined with bookcases...  Main monitors are smaller ADAMs (F5) - I have a fairly low-cost active sub which I occasionally bring into service, and can be "tuned" thanks to some rather useful switching on its crossover - the Wharfedale SW150.  It's not a fairly low-priced model, but punches well above its weight (and price bracket). 

Worth investigating, especially if funds are tight.

https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/sw-150/

HTH

Tony

At 11:54 26/11/2022, you wrote:

Hi all,

Sorry about this mundane technical question, but I'm finalising a few things at my home studio and I imagine many of you have been through this already.

I have a fairly well treated room (it's too small, so it will never be perfect or good for mastering, but that's another issue). The speakers I'm using are quite good, but they're linear down to about 80Hz and bottom out at 55Hz.  Normally that would be kind of ok, but I've lost my access to a room with subs to check things against.

I guess the question is 'what can I get away with?' I want to be able to compose (not that you can tell from out there) with confidence, but I'm aware that no matter what, my room won't be at any kind of mastering level.

I think I'll *need* a sub, (and a decent crossover)
But how little can I get away with spending on a sub?

I'm not trying to cheap out, but I want to be practical too. I don't want to start looking at selling a bass guitar or a vintage racing bicycle to finish this off.

I'm looking for off-hand opinions and expert advice but also willing to accept psych counseling and career advice ;)

Best, and many thanks in advance,

Rick




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick Nance
Leicester, UK
rick...@uab.edu

RickNance.org

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CEC-Conference" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cec-conferenc...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/CAM5B-WN8_SLNeNj%3Dv__5q7uTOMB-NTr0ANQEHFwzZejvumLsLg%40mail.gmail.com .

Tony Seaton

[Tony Seaton]

Correction : it is a fairly low-priced model ...

[That'll teach me to re-read what I edit whilst writing/thinking!]

T

At 15:41 26/11/2022, you wrote:

Hi Rick

How little can you get away with spending on a sub?

[There's a "million dollar" question!]

I have a small (and not particularly acoustically treated) room, albeit with walls somewhat lined with bookcases...  Main monitors are smaller ADAMs (F5) - I have a fairly low-cost active sub which I occasionally bring into service, and can be "tuned" thanks to some rather useful switching on its crossover - the Wharfedale SW150.  It's not a fairly low-priced model, but punches well above its weight (and price bracket). 

Worth investigating, especially if funds are tight.

https://www.wharfedale.co.uk/sw-150/

HTH

Tony

At 11:54 26/11/2022, you wrote:

Hi all,

Sorry about this mundane technical question, but I'm finalising a few things at my home studio and I imagine many of you have been through this already.

I have a fairly well treated room (it's too small, so it will never be perfect or good for mastering, but that's another issue). The speakers I'm using are quite good, but they're linear down to about 80Hz and bottom out at 55Hz.  Normally that would be kind of ok, but I've lost my access to a room with subs to check things against.

I guess the question is 'what can I get away with?' I want to be able to compose (not that you can tell from out there) with confidence, but I'm aware that no matter what, my room won't be at any kind of mastering level.

I think I'll *need* a sub, (and a decent crossover)
But how little can I get away with spending on a sub?

I'm not trying to cheap out, but I want to be practical too. I don't want to start looking at selling a bass guitar or a vintage racing bicycle to finish this off.

I'm looking for off-hand opinions and expert advice but also willing to accept psych counseling and career advice ;)

Best, and many thanks in advance,

Rick




--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick Nance
Leicester, UK
rick...@uab.edu

RickNance.org

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CEC-Conference" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cec-conferenc...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/CAM5B-WN8_SLNeNj%3Dv__5q7uTOMB-NTr0ANQEHFwzZejvumLsLg%40mail.gmail.com .

Tony Seaton

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CEC-Conference" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cec-conferenc...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/63823391.a70a0220.a6fee.143aSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com .

Tony Seaton

[Rick]

Thanks! I wondered about Presonus. Good to know. I've seen some great prices and specs on them.

Just to be clear about all that other stuff. I've spent a lot of time measuring the room's frequency responses using REW (Room Eq Wizard) with proper measure mics. The bass absorbers I've built have gotten the more serious issues under control. The reason I'm asking about subwoofers isn't primarily for correction, as much as extending the range of a pair of 'near-perfect' studio monitors which have a 55Hz cutoff (and down to 80Hz ±2dB linear response). Of course the monitors will always be limited by the room, but they aren't specialised for very low frequencies (for instance, they aren't ported) so they'll need some level of help.

all great help so far guys,

R

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/CAG8yg-Eoho4bjfZZPM-Z4UPKPYhQJ%2B0seVNbHBf8TqSNcQLSJA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Rick]

Thanks Tony, I'll check them out.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/6382349d.050a0220.6503a.418eSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN%40gmr-mx.google.com.

[Kevin Austin]

Hi

I hope you are well.

I am not an expert on this. [But don’t ask me about my experience with ‘expert advice’ . . . ]

In my experience you are trying to deal with several different issues, which is problematic.

To answer your basic question:

'what can I get away with?'

Simple answer . . ." around here, nothing."

You can’t dance at every wedding, and only really expensive studios can do more than a few things well. It’s not in the nature of the medium or the aesthetics.

Some people want good looking studios, some people want studios that are precise [and can be a bit ugly]. Some people need a small private space, some need a space where 2 or 3 people can listen comfortably.

You indicate that you want a small production studio, built for one. Two main things. [1] the acoustics; [2] the setup and monitors.

[1] Not easy but the aim is dead, dead, dead and more dead. The more absorption in the space, the fewer [detrimental] effect[s] you have to deal with. Low frequencies where the walls / ceiling floor are under a half wavelength can be very problematic. You need to absorb them.

With a dead flat room you move to [2]. [As long as it is not you that is dead flat, or flat dead.]

[2] The best [small] monitors you are prepared [*see investment below] to spend the money for.

I recommend in the U$7-800+ range for each speaker. This is where everything you are going to hear comes from. The speakers should be about an arms length away. You want free-field conditions. Hopefully you will have tamed the acoustical resonances issue. What you will hear is the signal from the speakers will above any reflected signals.

I learned 15 years ago not to have one subwoofer. [Long story with a 16.12 channels system.] I have 2 subs on my MAINs [L] & [R]. I compromise and feed all left channels to the let sub, and all right channels to the R-sub.

I know that my two main configurations are two-channel and five-channel. Therefore I have a center speaker. [My side and back speakers – 7 channels total – are of slightly lower quality.]

I just measured. My nose to [MAIN] tweeter distance is 23-24 inches [about 60 cm]. My nose to tweeter of the center speaker is 28” [~70 cm].

Subs

On my mainly used 4 listening systems, only one is close to studio quality, I have six subs. Two are the lowest end <ug> sub on two $200 speakers in my uni office. It makes them bearable for non-critical listening. One — a bit bigger — in the kitchen with two $500 speakers, ditto the bedroom.

My two listening subs where I am right now, are 15” [40 cm] ‘cubes’, mid-range [$-wise] SONY subs. My main Adams speakers go down ‘relatively comfortably’ to 45-50Hz. These subs carry this down to around 28Hz. Low frequency phase distortion is a function of room acoustics. [I have some terrible room nodes, but they are [about 2-3 feet, 65cm-1m] behind the speakers and behind where I listen, so I only hear them if i walk around the room.

I have progressively built this [home] system over the past 20+ years. Before that I had no quality listening at home. An advantage of buying quality equipment is that this is all an investment. [A] An investment in the quality of the work I can do and what I listen to, and [B] a capital investment. My $600 speakers of past decades still sell for $250-$300. Most of my [better] equipment has reduced its value[depreciated] by less than 40%.

Be well

Kevin

[Rick]

On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 6:28 PM Kevin Austin <kevin....@videotron.ca> wrote:

Hi

I hope you are well.

I am not an expert on this. [But don’t ask me about my experience with ‘expert advice’ . . . ]

In my experience you are trying to deal with several different issues, which is problematic.

To answer your basic question:

'what can I get away with?'

Simple answer . . ." around here, nothing."

You can’t dance at every wedding, and only really expensive studios can do more than a few things well. It’s not in the nature of the medium or the aesthetics.

Some people want good looking studios, some people want studios that are precise [and can be a bit ugly]. Some people need a small private space, some need a space where 2 or 3 people can listen comfortably.

You indicate that you want a small production studio, built for one. Two main things. [1] the acoustics; [2] the setup and monitors.

[1] Not easy but the aim is dead, dead, dead and more dead. The more absorption in the space, the fewer [detrimental] effect[s] you have to deal with. Low frequencies where the walls / ceiling floor are under a half wavelength can be very problematic. You need to absorb them.

With a dead flat room you move to [2]. [As long as it is not you that is dead flat, or flat dead.]

Hi Kevin, (doing ok, hope you are too)

Thanks for the details. The studio is already in place, so some of what you've already done is past my being able to address, and I am still a 2 channel guy. It would be nice one day to change that, but I can't see that happening in this life. (if anyone wants to unload a 6 pack of small monitors, I'm happy to pick them up. I can trade Alabama jalapeno cornbread, or insulin amping apple pies)

The treatments have gone about as far as is practical for the size room (right now a dozen plus _well-placed_ absorbers. When I get a new measurement mic I can re-measure the room (having recently adjusted for bilateral symmetry) but I am where it's getting that all efforts to perfect the annoying nodes have long past a point of diminishing returns. (I 'imagine' that using diaphragmatic  absorbers tuned to the room's specific problem node(s) would be better, but $$$ (or £££, your exchange rate may vary) 

[2] The best [small] monitors you are prepared [*see investment below] to spend the money for.

I recommend in the U$7-800+ range for each speaker. This is where everything you are going to hear comes from. The speakers should be about an arms length away. You want free-field conditions. Hopefully you will have tamed the acoustical resonances issue. What you will hear is the signal from the speakers will above any reflected signals.

Since I'm limiting myself to a stereo pair I've opted for ATC SL 20 (active). They were used, but they've recently been refurbished and upgraded at the factory.

I learned 15 years ago not to have one subwoofer. [Long story with a 16.12 channels system.] I have 2 subs on my MAINs [L] & [R]. I compromise and feed all left channels to the let sub, and all right channels to the R-sub.

I hope that with a straightforward 2-channel system that multiple subs aren't an issue. At least for now I have to go on that assumption.

 

I just measured. My nose to [MAIN] tweeter distance is 23-24 inches [about 60 cm]. My nose to tweeter of the center speaker is 28” [~70 cm].

 

I'm using a 'golden ratio/rule of 2/3rds placement (Cardas?) plan that so far has yielded the better measurable results. Again, re-measuring and readjusting is needed even before a sub is chosen.  The room is about as 'free-field' as I can get it. I may try the speakers closer to the front again, but for now, this seems to work.

Subs

On my mainly used 4 listening systems, only one is close to studio quality, I have six subs. Two are the lowest end <ug> sub on two $200 speakers in my uni office. It makes them bearable for non-critical listening. One — a bit bigger — in the kitchen with two $500 speakers, ditto the bedroom.

My two listening subs where I am right now, are 15” [40 cm] ‘cubes’, mid-range [$-wise] SONY subs. My main Adams speakers go down ‘relatively comfortably’ to 45-50Hz. These subs carry this down to around 28Hz. Low frequency phase distortion is a function of room acoustics. [I have some terrible room nodes, but they are [about 2-3 feet, 65cm-1m] behind the speakers and behind where I listen, so I only hear them if i walk around the room.

AhA! 

So you're happy with the Sonys and they help with your room nodes as well as carrying your signal down to under 30Hz. Good to know. And you didn't think it was necessary to use something more akin to the ADAMs as your subs. My mains go down around the same as yours.

I have progressively built this [home] system over the past 20+ years. Before that I had no quality listening at home. An advantage of buying quality equipment is that this is all an investment. [A] An investment in the quality of the work I can do and what I listen to, and [B] a capital investment. My $600 speakers of past decades still sell for $250-$300. Most of my [better] equipment has reduced its value[depreciated] by less than 40%.

yeah, even my 20+ year old microphones are holding their value well. My backup speakers also serve as my living room cinema/entertainment speakers and they seem to be holding their resale value reasonably well too. 

Thanks Kevin. Maybe too much info to digest at the moment, but I'll work on it.

Best wishes for the coming year,

Rick

 

On 2022, Nov 26, at 06:54, Rick <ri...@uab.edu> wrote:

Hi all,

Sorry about this mundane technical question, but I'm finalising a few things at my home studio and I imagine many of you have been through this already.

I have a fairly well treated room (it's too small, so it will never be perfect or good for mastering, but that's another issue). The speakers I'm using are quite good, but they're linear down to about 80Hz and bottom out at 55Hz.  Normally that would be kind of ok, but I've lost my access to a room with subs to check things against.

I guess the question is 'what can I get away with?' I want to be able to compose (not that you can tell from out there) with confidence, but I'm aware that no matter what, my room won't be at any kind of mastering level.

I think I'll *need* a sub, (and a decent crossover)
But how little can I get away with spending on a sub?
I'm not trying to cheap out, but I want to be practical too. I don't want to start looking at selling a bass guitar or a vintage racing bicycle to finish this off.

I'm looking for off-hand opinions and expert advice but also willing to accept psych counseling and career advice ;)

Best, and many thanks in advance,

Rick

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick Nance
Leicester, UK
rick...@uab.edu

RickNance.org

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CEC-Conference" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cec-conferenc...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/CAM5B-WN8_SLNeNj%3Dv__5q7uTOMB-NTr0ANQEHFwzZejvumLsLg%40mail.gmail.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CEC-Conference" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to cec-conferenc...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cec-conference/C0830D68-8079-4BEF-AA9A-6BECB74B4870%40videotron.ca.

--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rick Nance
Leicester, UK

RickNance.org

[Rick]

Kevin,

By the way; What a great home system(s)! I have a John Lewis radio in the kitchen. I'm lucky that it gets DAB!