Re: [Catalina 355:2159] Electrical upgrades
Michael Green
battery (under the seat next to water heater), parallel-ed my 4D's, and
coupled them with an Automatic Charging Relay and am very happy with the
way it works. i.e., I don't worry about not having enough juice to
start my engine after sitting at anchor for a while. I'm curious about
the larger alternator. Can you actually use that much output current to
charge batteries, or is there some other reason to have that much capacity?
Also, curious about the horn button on the pedestal.
Thanks,
Mike
On 1/3/2016 2:07 AM, John Salley wrote:
> After owning and cruising the 355 for a couple of seasons, I now have a better idea of my electrical usage and the modifications I wanted to do this winter to better accommodate it. I had originally planned to do the upgrades in stages, but decided to go ahead with all of now (except replacement of the original 4D batteries, which I think still have another year left in them), since most of the work is interrelated. I broke it down into 3 "sub-projects": replacement of the original alternator with a high output Electromaax unit, Balmar external regulator, and serpentine belt system; addition of a third battery dedicated to engine starting and emergency house loads; and a complete rewire to combine the two 4D's, route the alternator output directly to the house bank (I had already installed an ACR), and repurpose the existing battery switches to allow emergency use of either bank for house or engine starting.
>
> 1. Alternator/regulator/belt upgrade: I purchased a 140 amp alternator, regulator, and belt kit from Electromaax. Their systems are excellent quality, though I can't recommend purchasing from them because their post purchase customer service is abysmal. If you can find another vendor for their product, that would be the way to go. I can give further details privately if anyone is curious. The alternator just fits in the tiny engine box, though the belt tensioner doesn't fit and can't be used. The alternator has a rudimentary internal regulator that is essentially bypassed, but remains in place as a backup in case there is a failure of the external regulator. The serpentine belt kit goes on easily after removing the coolant pump pulley; it is replaced with a multi- grooved pulley from the kit. The grooved crankshaft pulley is simply bolted over top of the existing pulley. I also put on a new v-belt for the raw water pump while things were apart. I had to do some shimming with various washers to get the belt guard to fit back on, but there really shouldn't be a problem with leaving it off. Photos attached of the engine with the alternator installed. The Balmar regulator (not connected yet) will be installed behind the engine on the starboard side of the engine bay, where the engine's intake airflow will keep it cool and it is readily accessible for programming. The regulator has a feature that allows the alternator output to be reduced 50% when additional engine power is needed - this was wired to a switch on the helm, as well as a pair of alternator idiot lights to monitor its function.
>
> 2. I chose to install a group 27 AGM battery in the port cockpit locker, where it's readily accessible and still not too far from the battery switches (I like Jon Vez's installation behind the water heater, but wanted to reserve that space for other uses). The battery cables (2/0) enter the cabin through a hole drilled in the bottom of the locker into the space just forward of the aft water tank behind the panel at the foot of the aft berth. They then travel forward, with the negative cable connecting to the busbar behind the file drawer, and the positive to the battery switches (these switches were completely reconfigured and rewired; see the attached wiring diagram). The AC charger cable was also rerouted to the new battery, along with the sense wire for the Balmar Smart Guage.
>
> 3. In the main battery compartment, the existing 4D's were paralleled into a single house bank, and a 1/0 cable was routed directly from the positive terminal (actually a terminal fuse) to the alternator, going under the floor panel ahead of the engine box (the fiberglass "subfloor" has a molded channel to contain wiring). I also routed the regulator's battery temp sensor and voltage sensing wires through this channel to the house bank. The ACR was already mounted behind the battery switch panel, on a wood block epoxied to the hull. Finally, because I've had issues with my radar shutting down during engine starts, I ran an additional wire from the ACR's start isolation output to the actuating terminal on the engine's starter solenoid; this allows the ACR to separate the start and house battery cross connection when it senses an engine start.
>
> I'm planning to replace the house batteries with AGM's when they expire, probably after the coming season. I'll probably think about replacing the stock Charles battery charger with an upgraded one at that time.
>
> I will try to upload pictures, but may have to do a couple at a time due to Internet limitations. I have more; let me know if you'd like any more pictures or information.
>
John Salley
I installed an electric horn on the bottom of the mast-mounted radome bracket last year. The helm button is wired to a relay located behind the main electric panel, which minimizes the heavy gauge wire to the horn. It actually also has a Fogmate fog signal controller and requisite switches wired in, which is located on and behind the forward auxiliary panel over the aft captain's chair. I'll look for a picture of it.
Michael Green
install a solar panel yet.
I don't encounter much fog here in St Pete area, but I do think a horn
would be useful in our sometimes crowded fairways.
Thanks,
Mike
ken magida
We did a similar upgrade when we purchased Forever Young. Previously, we had a C310 which had the same 2-4D set-up as comes standard on the C355. While it was adequate on the C310, it was apparent that it could not work for us with the refrigerator set-up and electric head on this boat. We moor at our club and almost never go to a dock when out cruising. Since we have spent as many as 5 nights on the hook without moving, we knew we needed much more battery capacity. Although Gerry Douglas and the dealer both tried to talk us out it, we insisted that the dealer install a separate engine start battery and an ACR. The battery is in the front of the lazarette and the remote switch is mounted near the shore power switch at the rear of the lazarette. We also hardwired the 2-4D's together.
We were fortunate that we did this upgrade initially because it became immediately apparent that we were not getting the ability to skip days without running the engine to charge the batteries. The next winter we installed a Balmar Smart Gauge which has confirmed that the batteries are running down much faster than we had hoped. In 3 seasons we have not ascertained the reason. The house bank should have at least 350 amp-hour capacity which with never going below 50% should give us 175 amp-hours before we need a charge. The refrigerator and the electric head are the major consumers of power but I don't think they should be using that much - the instruments are off at anchor, so there is minimal lighting, stereo, and VHF in receive mode. Yet, in the morning the Balmar generally reads 60-65% which means there is no way to avoid running the engine during the day.
I have also thought about installing a higher capacity alternator and external regulator, in which case the AGM's would make sense. Apparently others are having the same issue. I spoke with Gerry Douglas several times about it and he is not very concerned about the issue. For that matter, my dealer did not think much of my initial concern either and both of them tried to discourage me from the ACR even if I installed the extra battery. It would seem to me that if the boat had an ice box with a refrigeration unit, instead of the installed unit which does not allow for using block ice due to the lack of a drain hole, it would give an alternative means of minimizing engine run time. We have taken to using an igloo under the salon table with a block of ice as the sole refrigeration when we are out for only 1 or 2 nights as it is large enough. When we are out for several weeks, we use it because the installed refrigerator is not large enough.
I would be interested in hearing if others have the same experience and what you are doing about it. In particular, has anyone does an energy audit to ascertain exactly what is being used by each electrical device?
Also, in the meantime, I am investigating a small capacity solar installation to minimize sulfating of the batteries while on the mooring to extend their life. This however will not solve my main problem and there is no room to install a large enough solar array to run the boat while on board at anchor. Has anyone installed a similar system and what are your experiences?
One other comment - the C355 seems to have been designed for use at a dock rather than on a mooring or at anchor due to arrangement of the bow cleats and chocks which are too close together to comfortably pass the spliced loop through the cleat. Also the arrangement of the foredeck does not allow for the installation of a chain lock on the deck. Has anyone seen the need to make any modifications and what are they?
In any event, we are very happy with Forever Young and can't wait until Spring.
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Jon Vez
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ken magida
Thank you for your comments. In particular, I was surprised that the factory batteries were only 160 AH. I thought 4D's were generally larger capacity. The normal degradation of the batteries was a factor I considered but since the situation has existed since the boat was new, I was not focusing on that. Certainly, by now, it is having a significant effect.
I am very reluctant to go with such a large solar array for several reasons. We keep our bimini closed when we are not on the boat because of a large bird population which creates a huge mess. Instead of messing up the canvas, it will cover the solar array and adversely affect its efficiency. It will also require us to come to the dock frequently to wash the panels. Further, unless it is very hot, I prefer to sail with the bimini closed as it gives better visibility of the sails.
Also, I don't think any size array will give me 80 AH per day in Long Island Sound or our destinations east and north.
I was considering using 2 panels on opposite sides of the dodger (to minimize shading from the boom) with separate controllers so even if one panel is shaded the other will work at full efficiency.
I would be interested in seeing your energy audit if you don't mind sharing it.
From: Jon...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [Catalina 355:2170] Electrical upgrades
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2016 18:24:26 -0500
To: catal...@googlegroups.com
Sent from my iPad
We did a similar upgrade when we purchased Forever Young. Previously, we had a C310 which had the same 2-4D set-up as comes standard on the C355. While it was adequate on the C310, it was apparent that it could not work for us with the refrigerator set-up and electric head on this boat. We moor at our club and almost never go to a dock when out cruising. Since we have spent as many as 5 nights on the hook without moving, we knew we needed much more battery capacity. Although Gerry Douglas and the dealer both tried to talk us out it, we insisted that the dealer install a separate engine start battery and an ACR. The battery is in the front of the lazarette and the remote switch is mounted near the shore power switch at the rear of the lazarette. We also hardwired the 2-4D's together.We were fortunate that we did this upgrade initially because it became immediately apparent that we were not getting the ability to skip days without running the engine to charge the batteries. The next winter we installed a Balmar Smart Gauge which has confirmed that the batteries are running down much faster than we had hoped. In 3 seasons we have not ascertained the reason. The house bank should have at least 350 amp-hour capacity which with never going below 50% should give us 175 amp-hours before we need a charge. The refrigerator and the electric head are the major consumers of power but I don't think they should be using that much - the instruments are off at anchor, so there is minimal lighting, stereo, and VHF in receive mode. Yet, in the morning the Balmar generally reads 60-65% which means there is no way to avoid running the engine during the day.
Jon Vez
Hi Ken,
I will get you my audit information the next time I visit the boat as my Maintenance log is not at home. 4D’s are spec’d by dimensional size. The Plates are what determine the AH capacity. That’s why you pretty much get what you pay for.
I live in Boston, so we have a similar climate, but with quality (expensive) panels and dual MPPT controllers, you very well may get a substantial amount of AH back if you choose to use your Dodger instead of the Bimini. I understand your dilemma with the Bimini, but it is the ideal spot for a couple of large panels as there is no shading and is relatively flat for semi-rigid panels. I plan on using removable panels that Velcro or zip in as I have to break everything down for winter storage.
Jim Scherzi has a nice install among others. He used Bruce Schwab, who is up and Maine and I have been speaking with Bruce about my install…If you Google his company you may find a suitable solution….
Jon
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/BAY182-W54735DF6E7F6786B71B720DAF10%40phx.gbl.