reefing

[Jose Faraldo-Gomez]

Hi all,

I’m considering buying a new C355 with an in-mast mainsail furler (moving up from a 22-ft daysailer) and one of the many questions I have is how to best reef the sail in significant wind. I take it one must point into the wind, with the boom perhaps slightly off center to facilitate furling? Or is it possible to reef from other/any point(s) of sail?

A related question is, in sporty conditions, do owners typically find that partially furling the 135 genoa is a better or worse option than replacing it with a smaller jib before leaving the dock?

Thanks for any input - and for all the info in this group. So helpful.

Jose

[Marvin Isgur]

The mainsail furling can get wrinkled or get folded. This can obstruct both opening and closing the mainsail. I suggest the the wind be between 10 and 30 degrees off of the starboard bow. Loosen the main sheet before you reef as well. With that combination, I have never had an issue.

Hope that this helps! Good luck. You will love the 355

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Jose Faraldo-Gomez <jose.f...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,

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[Zach Smith]

My biggest gripe with the in mast furling is when u need to unfurl just a bit... Say when the wind drops from 25kts to 20kts and youre going from "2nd" reef to "1st" reef. With the continuous line that goes to the drum at the mast it is possible to let it go slack and then have the entire main come dumping out. Especially tricky if you are single handing.

As for the headsail, a purpose cut sail will always be more efficient than a partially furled, but it works just fine furling the genoa. I wouldnt worry about it unless you like changing sails or are racing. :)

[Michael Green]

The main furls on a shaft inside the mast by rotating counterclockwise, so it is much easier to furl and unfurl with the boom a bit to port.

Mike

[Juan Galan]

We only daysail in Biscayne Bay[Miami] and rarely go out if winds are over 15kts.

We find it very easy to unfurl/furl both the Main and the Genoa. You have clutches to hold the loop[keep it tight] that controls how the main goes out until ready to move main. Usually, my wife unfurls the main while I am holding the loop line.

The comment made about the boom slightly to port is correct as it helps but we often furl it in at end of daysail with boom on center - we never head into wind to bring main or jib in.

The Catalina 355 is a great boat - we had a 2015 36 Beneteau and a 2016 Hunter 31 previously. Our 355[shoal draft] has over 6,000# ballast while Beneteau had 4,000+# and Hunter 31 had 3500#. That extra ballast makes a huge difference -she sails with less heel and is stiffer in a puff!! Looks wise , the Platinum edition Beneteau was a looker that got lots of thumbs up, but the Catalina 355 is recognized as a great boat. I think they are getting close to hull# 200, which is quite an achievement!

Juan Galan #147

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[Andy Follett]

I have Zack's boat and the same complaint/observation on unintentionally dumping the entire main out when deploying/reefing the main, especially when single handed.  Will try using the clutches and play with the tension on the continuous furling line while deploying the sail with the outhaul.  Single handed, that would seem to take some finesse not normally found on a 3/8" running rigging line (IMO).  It doesn't take but a few degrees off a heading in a 20 knot wind for the sail to catch the wind and you're looking at the whole main deployed over the side of the boat with the outhaul only pulled out a few inches/feet.  Especially if you are set up with the boom a little offset to port.  

Anyone have a technique other than, or in addition too, the two-person operation with one person tweaking the tension on the continuous furling line while the other works the outhaul?

So, on a related note, why is the furling line continuous in first place - what is the purpose of the "out" line - other than having the ability to unfurl and jam up the sail inside the mast?  Other boats I've been on, with the furling line that raps around the actual shaft in the mast, like a corkscrew, work better with more control.  I think those were Seldon masts as well.  That furling line's only purpose is to furl the sail and the outhaul's only purpose is deploy the sail.  I.E. there is no way to "unfurl" the sail inside the mast and jam it up and it's easy to keep tension on that furling line to keep from dumping the whole sail out when you intend to reef from the start. 

There must be some "Seldon logic" for the continuous furling line.  Anybody have a guess on what that is?

It's a great boat but what I'm missing here?

[STEWART SMITH]

Andy, are you using the ratchet located on the continuous line drum when reefing. If you set it to lock you can reef but cannot redeploy unless you release the locked ratchet. Not sure I am on the same page as you as I may not be understanding your issue.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/b3deeb5a-b37a-4a76-a678-d4212414adcfn%40googlegroups.com.

[hvb...@gmail.com]

Instead of using clutches to try to control the continuous line during deployment, put the continuous line a turn or two around the winch when you get the sail where you want it close the clutches cinch up the continuous line take it off the winch and put the mainsheet on the winch and trim it in. 

HVB

Sent from the field. 

On Feb 5, 2024, at 8:48 AM, STEWART SMITH <stusm...@cox.net> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/2032786538.2023919.1707140901212%40myemail.cox.net.

[Eric Carnell]

Unfurling the mainsail in a strong wind does require strict attention to the continuous furling line so you don’t unfurl too much. Here is my single-handed method which works in apparent winds (at least) up to 25 kts. 

Flip mast ratchet to open. Decide upon a mark on the mainsail that will be your reefing point. When this mark exits the mast, this is where you will stop the sail. For example, use vertical reef marks if you have put them on the foot of the sail. Or look up for other marks as a starting point if not sure (the red diamond?, the black hull numbers-which one?)

Use autopilot to put boat on starboard tack with wind 5-20° off the bow. Loosen main sheet enough to allow boom to self center to wind as sail comes out. Make sure vang is set so boom is at ideal height for furling or unfurling. Wrap outhaul line on winch and put in handle. Grab both furling lines in right hand and pull tight and release both clutches with left hand. Now you need to start pulling the sail out without letting the wind pull it too far. Start by cranking the out haul winch handle with the left hand while holding both furling lines with right hand.  Slacken the 2 furling lines with your right hand and line will slip on the furling drum on the mast as you crank the out haul. The wind may grab the sail and start to deploy it. So you will then apply pressure to the furling lines by pulling back tightly on both lines with right hand to stop the mast winch drum. Then “catch up” with the outhaul winch. You can then operate the furling lines with both hands. Pull the left and ease the right to unfurl the sail a bit. Keep the line tight on the drum as you do this. Then catch up with the outhaul. If you overshoot the mark, pull on the right while easing the left to furl back in a bit. When happy, pull both furling lines tight and lock them both in clutches then go to mast and engage ratchet for safety. 

-Eric Carnell

Solstice

Hull #126

Yorktown, VA

On Feb 5, 2024, at 9:38 AM, hvb...@gmail.com wrote:

Instead of using clutches to try to control the continuous line during deployment, put the continuous line a turn or two around the winch when you get the sail where you want it close the clutches cinch up the continuous line take it off the winch and put the mainsheet on the winch and trim it in. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/02E785E0-F935-44E3-ABB4-F29A3763B718%40gmail.com.

[Andy Follett]

Thanks for the replies. 

Yes to HVB and the ratchet.  I use it.  That only works once the sail is out - of course.  My goal is I want to reef from the onset, already knowing I don't need the whole sail based on the wind.  So, that works when you decide you've got more wind than you need for where you already have the sail.

I have given Eric's technique a try in the past but I'm going to revisit it. Eric, I think I can modify that even further by leaving one of the clutches to the continuous line closed.  Then I just need to ease off the one that's open and only have to hold on to one vs. both the in/out at the same time.  Maybe even give it a wrap or two around the starboard cabin top winch for extra/easy leverage.  I'll give it a try and report back.

Andy Follett

Hull #142

Kemah, TX

[William Lieppe]

Interesting thread.

Selden had some recommendations regarding unfurling and reefing the main, printed in the Summer 2023 issue of MAINSHEET.

In response to an owner who reported excessive wear and failure of the line driver, Selden's recommendation was the following:

   “Excessive wear on the line driver is normally the result of using the endless furling line as a brake when unfurling the sail. The friction of the line on the spinning line driver burns the line driver. This is clearly seen in the photo. Proper unfurling of sail involves releasing all tension on the endless line. Deploy the furled sail by pulling on the outhaul until the sail is completely out. Reef or furl using the starboard side of the endless line. This will provide a tight reefed sail with less wrinkles and save your line driver."  

Bill Lieppe

Hull #162

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/73c55f90-6414-495f-9982-58c67eeb0590n%40googlegroups.com.

[Andy Follett]

So it sounds like Seldon's reefing technique is to completely unfurl the sail, then reef (furl back in) as desired.  Interesting. I can count on one hand the number of times in the past year I've wanted/needed to reef from the onset. So, it's not a burning concern but more of a nusense event. 

I would have thought that all that luffing of the sail while pointed into the wind juggling/messing with outhaul, furling, vang, etc. would be hard on hardware and sails more than the wear on the line driver.  The noise from all the luffing bothers me as well.  It's their boom so seldon should know.

Thanks for all the input.  I'll have to try several of these out, including the official seldon response.

Anyone ever come up with a reason for the out (inboard) furling line's usefulness/existence - other than being able to jam the sail up inside the mast :)  I just can't see why they designed it that way.  It is what it is and that system is on who knows how many 100s or may 1000s of boats so I would think there's some logic that I'm just not seeing.

[Eric Carnell]

Hi Andy,

I would agree that I would rather put wear on my furling line if I need to reef at the onset. I see no good reason to unfurl the entire main sail in 25+ kts. But consider this: if you use both furling lines to let out the sail (one in each hand) you can slowly unwind the sail on the furler (without slipping the line), take up slack on outhaul, slowly unwind a bit more, take up more slack, etc. This is how an electric furling system works. One bidirectional toggle controls the motor on the furler and another toggle controls the outhaul motor. You operate them together or in an alternating pattern to control both ends of the sail. In our manual system you have to have both furling lines even if you only ever operate the mast winch drum in one direction. How else do you keep the furling line always around the drum. You need to have the return line. And you need to have the return line in a clutch to lock the line tight around the mast winch drum when you set the sail in a reefed position. If you just lock the clutch on the right furling line, the loose left side can allow the mast drum to start unwinding the sail (especially in heavy wind) before you have time to go lock the ratchet on the mast. 

-Eric Carnell

On Feb 6, 2024, at 3:28 AM, Andy Follett <apfo...@gmail.com> wrote:

So it sounds like Seldon's reefing technique is to completely unfurl the sail, then reef (furl back in) as desired.  Interesting. I can count on one hand the number of times in the past year I've wanted/needed to reef from the onset. So, it's not a burning concern but more of a nusense event. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/57bd0d20-ccfd-4b33-93f9-3fd3551d171en%40googlegroups.com.

[Andy Follett]

Eric,

I'll give it a try.  Just have to be patient when unfurling the sail: take the time, etc.  Now all I need is some nasty wind.

And you're right - since the line goes around a drum (rather than winding up in the mast) the other end has to go somewhere :)  Hence the "out" line on the furler.

Andy

[William Lieppe]

So, using the furling line as a brake apparently does not wear out the line itself, but (according to Selden) rather the line driver, which can make it difficult if not impossible to furl the main.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/catalina355/3be9a74c-4b59-4e81-9fc6-0ddd9216d8c1n%40googlegroups.com.

[Andy Follett]

Went out today and the wind was strong enough (15 kts) that I could play around reefing the main from the start.  I ended up holding the furling lines (both of them) in my right hand and the outhaul on the winch with the left.  I kept enough tension on the furling lines that they stayed on the line driver and moved in/out appropriately.  if the sail started to unfurl by itself, I just closed my fist on the furling lines and pulled hard enough to make sure the line couldn't slip on the driver and the sail stopped coming out.  I think that satisfies Seldon's "not letting the furling line slip on the driver" yet it does use the lines to stop deployment of the sail aka a "brake". 

I might do this a handful of times a year so I'm personally not going to fully deploy the sail in a strong wind, go up on the deck (in that wind with the whole sail out - possibly flailing away right over my head), flip the lever to "ratchet". come back into the cockpit and reef a possibly uncooperative sail back in.  I'll still have to get to the rachet lever but at least it will be under a reefed sail, mostly under control, over my head.

I was looking for some ideas/techniques and I got them.  Great forum.  Thank you to everyone who replied and now I have something that works for me. I have a fair amount of experience, but this has been nagging me for a while.  Thanks to the forum again and however you sail, be safe.