BIKE Cycle track custom sign

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Serge Issakov

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Jul 9, 2021, 12:46:15 PM7/9/21
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San Diego is apparently starting to use a custom 🚲 CYCLE TRACK signs to avoid the misleading 🚲 BIKE LANE sign to designate Class 4 bikeways without implying they are mandatory use bike lanes per CVC 21202. Bravo!

We should try to help get this standardized. 

Serge




Judy Frankel

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Jul 9, 2021, 12:52:17 PM7/9/21
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Did they put an end bike lane sign with 200 feet of dashing to have time to merge out before cycle track?


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William Sellin

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:02:38 PM7/9/21
to Judy Frankel, Cabo Forum
Bravo San Diego! 

Maybe those 2 engineers & 10 street crew staff are actually getting caught up! (looks like it will take a while before it is seen as a double parking lane though)

Good question Judy - if there IS a bike lane on approach it should already have an intersection line (D39) but only 50 feet on city blocks is required.

William Sellin (Bill)
District 12 Area Director


“By and For Cyclists - 
protecting rights of access 
for bicyclists to public roads.”
Road Rights Matter!
Among other case law and statutes, including the Constitution of California, 
we rely upon Williams v County of Sonoma (2020)* establishing the precedent 
that government entities have a duty to safely maintain roads.
Cyclists do NOT assume the risk of unreasonable road hazards created by government neglect.
*55 CalApp. 5th 125,269 Cal.Rptr. 3d 273, 220 Cal.App. LEXIS 909.



On Jul 9, 2021, at 9:52 AM, Judy Frankel <judyf...@att.net> wrote:

Did they put an end bike lane sign with 200 feet of dashing to have time to merge out before cycle track?


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 9:46 AM, Serge Issakov

San Diego is apparently starting to use a custom 🚲 CYCLE TRACK signs to avoid the misleading 🚲 BIKE LANE sign to designate Class 4 bikeways without implying they are mandatory use bike lanes per CVC 21202. Bravo!

We should try to help get this standardized. 

Serge


<image_6483441.JPG>



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Judy Frankel

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:07:03 PM7/9/21
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D39 is the dashing at intersection?  Should also be where a bike lane ends.



William Sellin

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:14:18 PM7/9/21
to Judy Frankel, Cabo Forum

MUTCD with “Complete Streets Elements Toolbox” added…

It prompt permission for turning vehicles to merge into the bike lane to turn right. 
It certainly IS a good prompt to merge out of the gutter lane & get into the travel lave at most intersections.
It should not be dashed when a bike lane ends mid block unless a right turn option exist - it should be bike only for as long as possible.



Infrastructure Review Committee
      OCBike.org


Area Director for Caltrans District 12
      CABOBike.org

Among other case law and statutes, including the Constitution of California, 
we rely upon Williams v County of Sonoma (2020)* establishing the precedent 
that government entities have a duty to safely maintain roads.
Cyclists do NOT assume the risk of unreasonable road hazards created by government neglect.
*55 CalApp. 5th 125,269 Cal.Rptr. 3d 273, 220 Cal.App. LEXIS 909.
On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:06 AM, Judy Frankel <judyf...@att.net> wrote:

D39 is the dashing at intersection?  Should also be where a bike lane ends.


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 10:02 AM, William Sellin
Bravo San Diego! 

Maybe those 2 engineers & 10 street crew staff are actually getting caught up! (looks like it will take a while before it is seen as a double parking lane though)

Good question Judy - if there IS a bike lane on approach it should already have an intersection line (D39) but only 50 feet on city blocks is required.
William Sellin (Bill)
District 12 Area Director

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<PastedGraphic-13.tiff>

Judy Frankel

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:19:02 PM7/9/21
to wase...@gmail.com, Cabo Forum
Well if the class 2 bike lane ends at a class 4, which is what they are doing at the border of solana.beach into  the city of Encinitas trap that's not an intersection but should have a bike lane ends sign and dashing to give a heads up that you'll be stuck in a cycle trap.  They are doing this a lot.  No warning



On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 10:14 AM, William Sellin

William Sellin

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:24:50 PM7/9/21
to Judy Frankel, Cabo Forum
Agree - but edge riders who trust bike lanes are most likely going to stay in the gutter lane

Those of us who know better can safely merge across a solid Detail 39 bike lane when ever we need to - The Intersection line is to invite motorists into the gutter lane - and could lead them into driving into the cycle track / double parking lane.

The proponents of ‘protected bike lanes’ will never encourage the departure from their segregated facility into the roadway… and if it is at a city limit, the obligation would be hard to post (or paint) in the neighboring city upon approach.  
 
William Sellin (Bill)
District 12 Area Director


“By and For Cyclists - 
protecting rights of access 
for bicyclists to public roads.”
Road Rights Matter!
Among other case law and statutes, including the Constitution of California, 
we rely upon Williams v County of Sonoma (2020)* establishing the precedent 
that government entities have a duty to safely maintain roads.
Cyclists do NOT assume the risk of unreasonable road hazards created by government neglect.
*55 CalApp. 5th 125,269 Cal.Rptr. 3d 273, 220 Cal.App. LEXIS 909.


On Jul 9, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Judy Frankel <judyf...@att.net> wrote:

Well if the class 2 bike lane ends at a class 4, which is what they are doing at the border of solana.beach into  the city of Encinitas trap that's not an intersection but should have a bike lane ends sign and dashing to give a heads up that you'll be stuck in a cycle trap.  They are doing this a lot.  No warning


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 10:14 AM, William Sellin
<MUTCD 9C-101 Bike Lane Marking GREEN.png>
MUTCD with “Complete Streets Elements Toolbox” added…

It prompt permission for turning vehicles to merge into the bike lane to turn right. 
It certainly IS a good prompt to merge out of the gutter lane & get into the travel lave at most intersections.
It should not be dashed when a bike lane ends mid block unless a right turn option exist - it should be bike only for as long as possible.


<PastedGraphic-2.tiff>
Infrastructure Review Committee
      OCBike.org

<PastedGraphic-12.tiff>
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/caboforum/971597140.2932661.1625851131164%40mail.yahoo.com.
<MUTCD 9C-101 Bike Lane Marking GREEN.png><PastedGraphic-2.tiff><PastedGraphic-12.tiff>

Michael Graff

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:29:47 PM7/9/21
to serge....@gmail.com, Cabo Forum
I guess the person in the red sedan didn’t get the message?

I wonder how widespread the knowledge of 21202 is. Outside of CABO, do people know that bike lanes are mandatory-use, and cycle tracks are optional-use? Can they tell, at a glance, whether a bikeway is a lane or a track?

Judy Frankel

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Jul 9, 2021, 1:42:29 PM7/9/21
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Well cyclist around here are very aware of the difference and avoid. But if you are riding there for the first time you may miss it.  In one place cyclist notice at the last minute and hit the barrier when changing their mind at the last minute.

In the location of thev city limit there is no parking.  There are wheel stop and pole separation. There is also no sidewalk so pedestrians are in the trap.  This is on the coast highway 

Serge Issakov

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Jul 9, 2021, 2:03:52 PM7/9/21
to michae...@pobox.com, Cabo Forum
The treatment isn’t done yet.  I expect stencils and bollards in the buffer are still coming.  Red Mercedes gets a pass for now. 

No, most people don’t know nor care. Nor do they need to know if treatment is done right.  I’m just happy that traffic engineers, at least in San Diego, seem to get it. We’ve even been successful in getting BMUFL/sharrow treatment adjacent to cycle tracks.

Serge

Scott Mace

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Jul 9, 2021, 3:34:24 PM7/9/21
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Nobody in northern California, and nobody at California Bicycle Coalition, and no one at LAB, certainly no one at NACTO, and very few in the media use the term "cycle track." To uneducated, it sounds like a term for a velodrome.

All those entities use the term "protected bike lane." If we do end up with a special sign, it's likely to read that way. I assume that's why CABO never pressed the issue. (Be careful what you wish for.)

All this is because of a failure of all of us to pursue signage with the urgency that was demanded when Class 4 bikeways were approved.

Now we have one cowboy sign department trying to set the standard. This is NOT how road and street signage works in California!

Further, any sign on a white background is a regulatory, not advisory, sign. See:  "A white rectangular sign indicates that you must obey important rules." https://www.dmv.ca.gov/.../california.../traffic-signs/

We should not have to be reacting to cowboy signs on poles. We have statewide policy and planning tools. We've failed to use them, ever since Class IV was established.

Scott Mace

Serge Issakov

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Jul 9, 2021, 4:04:19 PM7/9/21
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I’m fine with cycle track. Separated bikeway is good too. 

The sign could even be just

     🚲 
BIKEWAY

White/regulatory is appropriate because motor vehicles are prohibited on bikeways. 
It’s an important distinction from the green BIKE ROUTE signs. 

Serge

William Sellin

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Jul 9, 2021, 4:15:36 PM7/9/21
to Serge Issakov, sc...@wiredmuse.com, cabo...@googlegroups.com
I think it is important. 
We need to stop using “Protected Bike Lane” as it is not either… 
If DOT can’t complete the job, I am glad to see San Diego address this omission by the DOT for Class IV designation.
Misuse of Class II BIKE LANE & Class III BIKE ROUTE both violate the express purpose of those signs.

William Sellin (Bill)
District 12 Area Director


“By and For Cyclists - 
protecting rights of access 
for bicyclists to public roads.”
Road Rights Matter!
Among other case law and statutes, including the Constitution of California, 
we rely upon Williams v County of Sonoma (2020)* establishing the precedent 
that government entities have a duty to safely maintain roads.
Cyclists do NOT assume the risk of unreasonable road hazards created by government neglect.
*55 CalApp. 5th 125,269 Cal.Rptr. 3d 273, 220 Cal.App. LEXIS 909.


<image_6483441.JPG>


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