Meta-cognition

[Jinan K B]

Can anyone tell me how does the concept of 'META-COGNITION' figure in
the Indian Knowledge system?

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[Anand Hudli]

If by meta-cognition is meant "cognition of cognition", nyAya uses the term anuvyavasAya to explain the awareness or experience of objective knowledge, such as "this is a pot." The anuvyavasAya is, in this case, of the form "I know this is a pot." The anuvyavasAya is caused by the objective knowledge, as per nyAya. Mimamsa also accepts anuvyavasAya, but says the anuvyavasAya is known through inference. Both these systems, hence, accept parataH prakAsha vAda, which means objective knowledge requires another knowledge to manifest it. This is refuted by advaita Vedanta, which holds that knowledge is svayaM prakAsha, self-luminous. One argument against parataH prakAsha vAda is simple. If knowledge requires another knowledge to be manifested, the second knowledge would require a third knowledge, and so on, leading to an infinite regress. Hence, advaita vedanta says, when we cognize an object, we also cognize the cognition of the object, simultaneously. 

Anand

[Achyut Karve]

Dear Vidvans,

I think Patanjali squarely addresses this issue in Sutras 20, 21 and 22 of the fourth pada of the Yoga Sutras.  

In short the cognition of cognition or meta cognition as it is called is awareness on account of the enseatment of the द्रष्टा and not another cognition.

With regards, 

Achyut Karve

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[Anand Hudli]

A clarificarion. Prabhakar Mimamsa agrees with advaita Vedanta that knowledge is self-manifested. However, Bhatta Mimamsa subscribes to parataH prakAsha vAda.

Anand

[Jinan K B]

Dear Anand/ Achyut

Thank you for the response.

I hope you won't mind me pursuing this further.

Does it happen simultaneously along with cognition or is there a time gap?

And does it happen as a conscious process or does it happen automatically?

What is the role of Language in this? Or does it have?
What about thinking? What is its role or does thinking has any role in this?

Does it happen to everyone or does it happen due to some other
factors? can it be developed if one does not have this ability?
If you don't mind I would like to ask one more thing.

The following thought came to me this morning.

When Newton SAW the apple falling, could we say it was an act of
cognition as well as metacognition? It is surely a simultaneous act
in which apart from just seeing the fact something additional did
happen which led him to the understanding of gravity. He saw the apple
falling and he probably also saw that it is the nature of things to
fall to the ground.

So is metacognition an act of seeing the abstract or recognizing the
abstract? or could we say was a kind of inference happening though
metacognition? This inference is automatic and there has been
sufficient background research that would have happened.

There are definitely prior conditions that enabled this kind of
SEEING. Metacognition is not a reflection as there is a time gap
between the action and reflection and reflection is often deliberate.

And metacognition is also not insight. Correct?

So could we say metacognition happens to people who have involved in a
deep enquiry?

I was thinking of another example of how people who are deeply
interested in language/ grammar etc also could have this happening to
them. So they hear what is being said and also at the same time
cognize the abstract, depending upon what they have been enquiring up
on.

So could we say that one condition is deep interest and second is that
metacognition happens when a real experience is happening? That is a
concrete experience is when both cognition and metacognition happens?

--
Jinan,

On 22/05/2019, Anand Hudli <ahu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If by meta-cognition is meant "cognition of cognition", nyAya uses the term
>
> anuvyavasAya to explain the awareness or experience of objective knowledge,
>
> such as "this is a pot." The anuvyavasAya is, in this case, of the form "I
> know this is a pot." The anuvyavasAya is caused by the objective knowledge,
>
> as per nyAya. Mimamsa also accepts anuvyavasAya, but says the anuvyavasAya
> is known through inference. Both these systems, hence, accept parataH
> prakAsha vAda, which means objective knowledge requires another knowledge
> to manifest it. This is refuted by advaita Vedanta, which holds that
> knowledge is svayaM prakAsha, self-luminous. One argument against parataH
> prakAsha vAda is simple. If knowledge requires another knowledge to be
> manifested, the second knowledge would require a third knowledge, and so
> on, leading to an infinite regress. Hence, advaita vedanta says, when we
> cognize an object, we also cognize the cognition of the object,
> simultaneously.
>
> Anand
>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 8:52:05 AM UTC+5:30, Jinan K B wrote:
>>
>> Can anyone tell me how does the concept of 'META-COGNITION' figure in
>> the Indian Knowledge system?
>>

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Dear Sri Jinan-ji,

Addressing these issues in general is a broad area of study whereas this forum can only focus on the answers to your questions from S'aastras, ancient Sanskrit sources, Indic Knowledge Systems etc. 

------------

How S'aastras deal with cognition is not  metacognition in s'aastras. That is just the science of cognition in s'aastras. What s'aastras say about how an individual cognises one's own cognition,  what s'aastras say about how an individual is aware of his own awareness  what s'aastras say about individual's knowledge about his/her own knowledge etc. come under the topic of  'handling of metacognition in S'aastras

-----------------

As is well known , ancient Indians excelled particularly in such areas of study of aatmonmukhatva aatmonmukha aspects of human life etc. Vedanta, Yoga, VyaakaraNa dars'ana (as claomed to have been distilled from the Mahaabhaashya of Patanjali by Bhartrihari ) etc.are abundantant in such discussion.   

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Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre for Indic Knowledge Systems. 

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Nagaraj Paturi]

BTW, may I remind that this topic is directly connected to Vedic Mindfulness that was discussed in another thread where Indic Academy's seminar on the topic was announced?

[Jinan K B]

Dear Nagaraj-ji

My intention in posting the question and then elaborating it was also
to understand from the context of the traditional Indian knowledge
system.

But as I am researching the cognitive damages of the present
educational paradigm I have a very practical need to understand not
only what was said in the S'aastras, ancient Sanskrit sources, Indic
Knowledge Systems etc.but also the 'cognitive' process that led to
this understanding.

So please feel free to write to me directly to explore this further.

Jinan

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[Bijoy Misra]

People who are deeply interested may refer to this paper that came out earlier in the month.

We came to similar conclusion in our work earlier.

"meta" is a loaded phrase.  We have to find cognition neurally.

The paper is attached.

On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 6:42 AM Jinan K B <jin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear  Nagaraj-ji

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[K S Kannan]

Meta-level considerations are reflected in

- vijn"AtAram are kena vijAnIyat?

- yena tyajasi tat tyaja

- kenes"itam patati pres"itam manaH?

etc.

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