Brahmins travel abroad restrictions

[L N Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali]

I’m currently exploring a fascinating topic that touches on traditional santana dharma views about sea travel and crossing into foreign lands. As I’ve been going through texts like the Manusmriti, samskara prakasha etc., I keep coming across ideas about the “impurity” associated with foreign travel by the means of sea travel and the need for purification rites (punar-samskara) when returning. It’s really intriguing to see how these texts treat the act of crossing the sea as something that impacts ritual purity and, in some cases, even caste status. what are the punar-samskaras like? will these samskaras restore the rights of an individual in performing all the yagnas and spiritual rituals?

Since this topic seems complex and deeply rooted in cultural and religious beliefs, I thought I’d reach out to you for some guidance. I’d love to know your thoughts on why ancient texts might discourage or impose restrictions on sea travel, is it only with sea travel? is traveling by air is OK?  and how these ideas might have evolved over time?  Also, I'd be grateful if there are any other texts or sources you’d recommend.

[Aravinda Rao]

Namaskaras, 

Kindly mention the name of the text which you have shown. I could not see any name mentioned on the pages.

I am no authority on the smriti texts but my quick response is that the word sanatana dharma should not be extended to these texts which came much later than the Vedas (including the Upanishads). It may be appropriate to use the expression sanatana dharma (meaning eternally applicable dharma) to the socio-philosophical knowledge and value system of the Vedic texts. We find highly egalitarian and lofty social values. We are asked to see Brahman in the whole creation. The prayaschittam shown in the pages is punah-upanayanam, which is not very drastic, but if drastic prayaschittam is prescribed somewhere else, one has to seek the opinion of the acharyas.

We also see that there are scores of smritis and dharma shastras, which means that no dharma shastra is final. So the present acharyas of the established peethams can be our guide.

Aravinda Rao      

On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 12:18 PM L N Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali <mlngo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m currently exploring a fascinating topic that touches on traditional santana dharma views about sea travel and crossing into foreign lands. As I’ve been going through texts like the Manusmriti, samskara prakasha etc., I keep coming across ideas about the “impurity” associated with foreign travel by the means of sea travel and the need for purification rites (punar-samskara) when returning. It’s really intriguing to see how these texts treat the act of crossing the sea as something that impacts ritual purity and, in some cases, even caste status. what are the punar-samskaras like? will these samskaras restore the rights of an individual in performing all the yagnas and spiritual rituals?

Since this topic seems complex and deeply rooted in cultural and religious beliefs, I thought I’d reach out to you for some guidance. I’d love to know your thoughts on why ancient texts might discourage or impose restrictions on sea travel, is it only with sea travel? is traveling by air is OK?  and how these ideas might have evolved over time?  Also, I'd be grateful if there are any other texts or sources you’d recommend.

--
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[Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali]

Thank you for your quick response sir.
These pages are from the "samskara prakasa"
Please find the book in the following link

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.383542

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[Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali]

I would also like to hear about this issue from aagama sastra perspective also.... Any view from pancha ratra agama, vikhanasa agama and shaiva agama is very much welcomed.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Hemant Dave <nas...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2024, 4:15 pm
Subject: Fwd: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Brahmins travel abroad restrictions
To: Nagaraj Paturi <nagara...@gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Hemant Dave <nas...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov, 2024, 17:16
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Brahmins travel abroad restrictions
To: <bvpar...@googlegroups.com>

You may want to consult the following sources/modern studies:

Kane, Pandurang Vaman. 1993 (reprint) History of Dharmaśāstra (Ancient and Mediæval Religious and Civil Law), vol. 3. Poona: Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, pp. 933 ff. Kane's HDh as always is standard, reliable, and the place to find anything.

Casa, Carlo Della. 1997. Un kalivarjya anomalo e discusso: il viaggio per mare. In Siegfried Leinhard and Irma Piovano (ed.), Lex et Litterae: Studies in Honour of Professor Oscar Botto. Torino: Orso.

Arp, Susmita. 2000. Kālāpāni: zum Streit über die Zulässigkeit von Seereisen im kolonialzeitlichen Indien. Stuttgart: Franz Steiner Verlag.

I have not seen this work but it was favourably reviewed in various journals which can be consulted for example on Jstor.

Pearson, M. N. 1981. Coastal Western India, pp. 116–144.

Varadrajan, Lotika. 1983. Indian seafaring: the precept and reality of Kalivarjya. The Great Circle 5 (1): 1–12. is almost unhelpful.

Sources and studies cited by them can further be followed.

Best wishes,

Hemant Dave

 

"Weeds are flowers too, once you get to know them..."

On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 at 12:18, L N Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali <mlngo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m currently exploring a fascinating topic that touches on traditional santana dharma views about sea travel and crossing into foreign lands. As I’ve been going through texts like the Manusmriti, samskara prakasha etc., I keep coming across ideas about the “impurity” associated with foreign travel by the means of sea travel and the need for purification rites (punar-samskara) when returning. It’s really intriguing to see how these texts treat the act of crossing the sea as something that impacts ritual purity and, in some cases, even caste status. what are the punar-samskaras like? will these samskaras restore the rights of an individual in performing all the yagnas and spiritual rituals?

Since this topic seems complex and deeply rooted in cultural and religious beliefs, I thought I’d reach out to you for some guidance. I’d love to know your thoughts on why ancient texts might discourage or impose restrictions on sea travel, is it only with sea travel? is traveling by air is OK?  and how these ideas might have evolved over time?  Also, I'd be grateful if there are any other texts or sources you’d recommend.

--

[Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali]

Thank you, for your valuable info sir.

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[Sreedhar Chintalapaty]

The closest we find to sub-caste at the time of the writing of the oldest major works of Dharmaśāstra is jñātisaṃgha i.e., extended kinship group. Contemporaneous usage of varṇā was as a "diacritical mark of individual status." rather than as a group identity. See Society at the Time of the Buddha by Narendra Wagle (https://archive.org/details/societyattimeofb0000wagl).

So loss of varṇa in the Dharmaśāstra refers to a demotion in ritual role, not loss of caste. Gautama says "dvijātikarmabhyo hāniḥ patanam. tasya nimittāni patanīyāni" (Gautama Dharmasūtra 21.4). Neglecting svādhyāya for three days makes one ineligible to be a ṛtvik. There is arthāvada in this, but as anyone who has tried to memorize the much smaller Bhagavadgītā knows, skipping practice for even one day can lead to a lapse/delay in recall. Neither of which, of course, was unacceptable when performing a Yajña.

Dharmanirūpaṇam has a long but ahistoric discussion on the topic of sea voyages (https://archive.org/details/qQMR_kalya-apaddharma-sarvasve-sanskrit-missing-pages-sanskrit-jangamwadi-math-collection).

Adding historic context might throw more light on the rationale, etc. From what little I know, the second urbanization of India was proceeding apace at the time of the writing of the oldest major works of Dharmaśāstra. One of the major components of that was international trade. Dalrymple tells us that Indians figured out the monsoons by this time, and it took about two months to go from India to the trade posts in the Red Sea. Then they'd stay there until the monsoon reversed directions. So going on a voyage will cause months-long disruption in svādhyāya. Also, Indian ships were unique in that they were stitched. While this made them quite resilient to the waves, it was obviously not a great place for agnihotra. This inevitable disruption in svādhyāya is perhaps why the Dharmaśāstra discourages sea voyages, etc.   

Best Regards,

Sreedhar

On Tue, Nov 12, 2024 at 12:48 AM L N Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali <mlngo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’m currently exploring a fascinating topic that touches on traditional santana dharma views about sea travel and crossing into foreign lands. As I’ve been going through texts like the Manusmriti, samskara prakasha etc., I keep coming across ideas about the “impurity” associated with foreign travel by the means of sea travel and the need for purification rites (punar-samskara) when returning. It’s really intriguing to see how these texts treat the act of crossing the sea as something that impacts ritual purity and, in some cases, even caste status. what are the punar-samskaras like? will these samskaras restore the rights of an individual in performing all the yagnas and spiritual rituals?

Since this topic seems complex and deeply rooted in cultural and religious beliefs, I thought I’d reach out to you for some guidance. I’d love to know your thoughts on why ancient texts might discourage or impose restrictions on sea travel, is it only with sea travel? is traveling by air is OK?  and how these ideas might have evolved over time?  Also, I'd be grateful if there are any other texts or sources you’d recommend.

--

[kamalesh pathak]

Sir, I am not authorised to give my openion, but to a broad minded group..space is to explain our view..
Sea travel or air voyage both indicates same thing ( going to mlechchha desha ) to my view..it's perhaps .. one should not be dharma bhrasta in foreign land.  To keep intact sanatan these punarsamskaras and restrictions are mentioned in our shastras.
Agam granthas are not seen by me, yes smrities have seen 18+17 (Manu smriti having big volume so didn't studied) rest 35 smrities deal with various subjects like routine act, special acts, dharma, rituals prAyaschittas, sanskaras etc, we can see there difference of openions, conclusion is..to follow own veda shakha, Sutra aranyak Brahman and smriti of our ancestral tradition,
सर्वेभ्यो नमांसि
Kamalesh pathak

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[Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali]

Found something interesting in "keshava paddhati" of koushika gruhya sutra of atharva veda...

अथ देशान्तरगमनस्य स्वस्त्ययनमुच्यते

[ये पन्थानः (६.५५) इति परीत्योपदधीत ॥ कौशिकसूत्र ७,३(५२).१ ॥ प्रयच्छति ॥ कौशिकसूत्र ७,३(५२).२ ॥] ऽये पन्थानो बहवो देवयानाः इति तृचेन सूक्तेनाज्यं जुहोति । आज्यतन्त्रे I ये पन्थानः इति समिध आदधाति । पुरोडाशादि योज्यं सर्वत्र I ये पन्थानः इति सूक्तेन तृचेन मन्थमभिमन्त्र्य पथिकाय प्रयच्छति स्वस्त्ययनकामः I ये पन्थानः इति तृर्चेन भक्तमभिमन्त्र्य प्रयच्छति भोजनार्थम् । समाप्ता ग्रामदूरागमनस्य शान्तिः । अनेन कर्मणा कलहादि दोषो न भवति ॥

This is about a ritual to be performed before going to another country or region...
Not found anything on rituals that are to be performed after returning... From any melcha desha or sort...

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[Munagala Subrahmanyam]

There is a book namely Samudra Yana Mimamsa available in archive website . Its publoshed around 1900 AD . That may help in the discussion.

[Munagala Subrahmanyam]

Please check the following archive link for the book samudrayana meemamsa. Its published in 1885.

https://archive.org/details/dli.ernet.496297/page/n1/mode/1up

On Thursday, May 8, 2025 at 12:59:09 AM UTC+5:30 Gowtham Sarma Mahamkali wrote: