Meaning of वाक

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

Dear friends, I am baffled by meaning of Vaaka that appears in RV  १,१६४.२४  गायत्रेण प्रति मिमीते अर्कमर्केण साम त्रैष्टुभेन वाकम् ।

१,१६४.२४ वाकेन वाकं द्विपदा चतुष्पदाक्षरेण मिमते सप्त वाणीः ॥

I request all of you to kindly Enlighten me.

There are so many meanings of vaala.

वाकम्, त्रि, (वकस्येदमिति । वक + “तस्येदम् ।” ४ । ३ । १२० । इत्यण् ।) वकसम्बन्धि । वक- स्येदं इत्यर्थे ष्णप्रत्ययेन निष्पन्नम् ॥ (क्ली, वकस्य समूहः । “तस्य समूहः ।” ४ । २ । ३७ । इत्यण् । वकसमूहः ॥ उच्यतेऽसौ अनेनेति वा । वच् + घञ् । वाक्यम् । यथा, उत्तरराम- चरिते । १ । १ । “इदं कविभ्यः पूर्ब्बेभ्यो नमो वाकं प्रशास्महे ॥” वेदभागविशेषः । यथा, महाभारते । १२ । ४७ । २५ । 

It is also found in MB

“यं वाकेष्वनुवाकेषु निषत्सूपनिषत्सु च । गृणन्ति सत्यकर्म्माणं सत्यं स्रत्येषु सामसु ॥” पुं, वकस्यावयवो विकारो वा । प्राणित्वादञ् । वकावयवविशेषः ॥)

[Hnbhat B.R.]

It seems the word or group of words other than related to बक or vaka first meaning as वकस्येदं वकस्यावयवविशेषः। related wo वच्.

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[V Subrahmanian]

In the Chandogya Upanishad 7th chapter there is a word:

वाकोवाक्यम्   for which the bhashya is: तर्कशास्त्रम्.

Could not check the vyakhyanam.

regards

subrahmanian.v    

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[Hnbhat B.R.]

"वाकोवाक्यं = तर्कशास्त्रम्।" शाङ्करभाष्यम्।

"वाकोवाक्यं प्रश्नोत्तररूपं वेदवाक्यम् । "

याज्ञवलक्यस्मृतौ व्याख्या।

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[V Subrahmanian]

Namaste Sri H N Bhat ji,

Your reference to Yajnavalkuya smriti vyakhyanam led me to a short search and I found several interesting results showing the wide range of contexts in which this term 'vaakovaakyam' is used:

https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/vakovakya  In this page itself there are many references, texts, where this term is used and the following is just one: 

A History of Indian Philosophy Volume 1 (by Surendranath Dasgupta)

Part 2 - Nyāya and Vaiśeṣika sūtras < [Chapter VIII - The Nyāya-Vaiśeṣika Philosophy]

disputation was regarded even then as a subject of study, and it probably passed then by the name of vākovākya

 उक्तिप्रत्युक्तिरूपं वाकोवाक्यम्” छा॰ भा॰   https://sa.wiktionary.org/s/6lf

vākovākyam

वाकोवाक्यम् = तर्कशास्त्रम् q. v.; Ch. Up.7.1.2.   https://www.sanskritdictionary.com/?q=v%C4%81kyam

 

https://sa.wikibooks.org/s/d7   (प-१२; अकि-१,८.२३-१०.३; रो-१,३५-३९; भा-४९/६२) सप्तद्वीपा वसुमती त्रयः लोकाः चत्वारः वेदाः साङ्गाः सरहस्याः बहुधा विभिन्नाः एकशतम् अध्वर्युशाखाः सहस्रवर्त्मा सामवेदः एकविंसतिधा बाह्वृच्यम् नवधा आथर्वणः वेदः वाकोवाक्यम् इतिहासः पुराणम् वैद्यकम् इति एतावान् शब्दस्य प्रयोगविषयः ।

In any case whether this helps answering the original question posed by Sri Veeranarayana Pandurangi ji is not known. 

warm regards

subrahmanian.v

   

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[Hnbhat B.R.]

I also remembered the reference in Mahabhashya Paspashahnika.

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[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

But Vaaka and Vaakovakya are different.

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

वाकः ---

In लौकिकभाषा we do not come across many usages of this शब्द --

in the usage वाकोवाक्यम् --

1. छान्दोग्ये 7-1-2 , वाकोवाक्यम् = तर्कशास्त्रम् शां भा 

 

2.पस्पशाह्निकम् , महाभाष्यम् - उक्तिप्रत्युक्तिरूपः ग्रन्थविशेषः -- यथा ’ किंस्विदवपनं महत् ? भूमिरावपनं महत्  -- example is from 

कृष्णयजुर्वेद -- both भर्तृहरि and कैयट ।

3.गौतमस्मृतिः - 8 अध्यायः - 6 सू   

4.कात्यायनस्मृतिः --  वाकोवाक्यं पुराणानि इतिहासानि चान्वहम्  14-11  

5.याज्ञवल्क्यस्मृतिः -- ब्रह्मचारी - 1- 45

In the above examples - a वाक्यम् is given as question and another वाक्यम् is given as the answer . So the term वाक

can be taken as another form of वाक्यम् ( वचो’शब्दसंज्ञायाम् पा सू 7-3-67 - कुत्वाभावः - वाच्यम् -- शब्दसंज्ञायां तु  वाक्यम् -

वच् - ऋहलोर्ण्यत्  पा सू  3-1-124  ) - so वाक्यं वाक्यं = वाकोवाक्यम् ।

In Telugu the term नमोवाकमुलु (नमोवाकाः) is being used .

In वैदिकपरिभाषा , the term अनुवाकः  is being used -- अनुसृत्य गुरुं उच्यते इति अनुवाकः - in वेद , we have वाक्यानि only - so 

वाक means वाक्यम्  -- अनूचानम् -is another usage -- अनु + वच् + ल्युट् -- उपेयिवाननाश्वाननूचानश्च पा 3-2-109 .

In उत्तररामचरितम् , नान्दीश्लोक - भवभूति used  the term नमोवाकम् --

इदं कविभ्यः पूर्वेभ्यः नमोवाकं प्रशास्महे ।

वन्देमहि च तां वाणीम् अमृताम् आत्मनः कलाम् ॥

Different commentators took pains to explain this term - नमोवाकम् ।

श्रीवीरराघव , one of the commentators resorted to छन्दस् , व्यकरणम् , पूर्वमीमांसा and वेदान्त , to justify his टीका and refute 

others' ---

नम उक्तिः नमोवाकः - इति कोशः -- this is not there in अमरकोश - and it takes up लौकिकशब्द-s only .

1.Then how चतुर्थी - कविभ्यः ? by ' नमः स्वस्तिस्वाहास्वधालंवषड्योगाच्च ’ पा --  he says - नमोवाकमित्यत्र एकदेशनमःशब्दापेक्षया कविभ्यः इति चतुर्थी -- 

We do not find this kind of behavior granted in महाभाष्यम्  - may be he meant - नामैकदेसग्रहणे नामग्रहणम् -- सत्यभामा - सत्या ,भामा । But application of सूत्रम् in such a case is different .

2. Then how इदं नमोवाकम् ? He says सामान्ये नपुंसकम् ---

a better answer can be - शक्यं च क्षुदुपहन्तुम् --- भाष्यकारप्रयोगः पस्पशायाम् --- ’ वेदाः प्रमाणम् ’ - गान्धर्ववेदे (सङ्गीतरत्नाकरे ) प्रयोगः -- यद्भावः  तद्भवति  इत्यादिलौकिकप्रयोगाः -- so  सामान्ये नपुंसकम् ।

This word may be put under पृषोदरादि , as it is used by  a great poet  भवभूति ।

So the word वाकः , unless proved otherwise due to प्रकरणम् etc ,  is to be taken in the sense of वाक्यम् -- वच् +घञ् , कुत्वम् ।

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

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[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

There is another example --- अविवाक्यम् अहः । What is अविवाक्यम् ? -- the tenth day of a ' ten-day-याग ’ -- दशरात्रयज्ञविशेषः ।

’यजयाचरुचप्रवचर्चश्च ’ पा 7-3-66--Panini says there will not be कुत्वम् -- प्रवच् + ण्यत्  -- प्रवाच्य ----

वार्तिकम् --- प्रवचिग्रहणमनर्थकम् वचो’शब्दस्ंज्ञाभावात्  -- प्रवचिग्रहणम् प्रत्याख्यातम् - why ? because there is no any thing with a संज्ञा

-- प्रवाच्यम् etc (प्रवाच्यं नम ग्रन्थविशेषः - काशिका is wrong ).

In such a situation कुत्वाभाव is achieved by वचो’शब्दसंज्ञायाम् पा सू 7-3-67 and therefore प्रवचि is not required .

कैयटः -- "दशरात्रस्य यज्ञविशेषस्य दशममहः - अविवाक्यमुच्यते , यस्मिन् याज्ञिका न विब्रुवते - न नानावाक्यानि उच्चारयन्ति इत्यर्थः । तत्र पृषोदरादित्वात्  कुत्वम् अन्यत्र प्रतिषेध इति प्रवचिग्रहणं प्रत्याख्यातम् ।"

’ विविधं वाक्यम् विवाक्यम् , न विवाक्यम् अविवाक्यम् ’ - इति योगरूढः अयं शब्दः इत्यर्थः । 

So here also कुत्वम् is achieved by पृषोदरादीनि यथोपदिष्टम् पा 6-3-109 .

[Jan E.M. Houben]

As far as I know Alfred Ludwig published a translation of the Rgveda into German plus commentary plus introduction between 1876 and 1883.

If this first complete translation of the Rgveda is now being translated into English I consider this very good news. 

As for RV 1.164.23-24, 12 years ago I concluded my study of these stanzas as follows: 

RV 1.16423-24, two enigmatic statements in the "Riddle Hymn," express two complementary viewpoints on the relationship between smaller and larger units of metrical speech employed in ritual chanting. As such, they provide antecedents for two complementary views which play a major role in Bhartrhari's Vâkyapadîya, one according to which the units of a lower organizational level (especially the word and its meaning) are primary, the other according to which units of a higher organizational level (especially the sentence and its meaning) are primary. 

For those who want to see the full argument I have uploaded the article on academia.edu:

https://www.academia.edu/39950384/RV_1.164.23-24_and_Bhartrharis_philosophy_of_language
Jan Houben 

On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 21:20, Raik Strunz via INDOLOGY <indo...@list.indology.info> wrote:

Dear Veeranarayana Pandurangi,

according to Böhtlingk’s PW vāká- refers to ‘Spruch, Recitation, Formel im Ritus’ (Apte ‘speech, uttering’), a specific kind of expression destined for the ritual context. Alfred Ludwig (forthcoming) translates the whole stanza:

“by the gâyatra-metre he measures the arka, 

by the arka the sâma, by the trišṭubh-metre the vâka |

by the vâka, that has two feet, the vâka that has four (read: catušpadam); 

by the mora he measures the seven modes of singing || 24 ||”

Best,

RS

 

–––––––––––

Raik Strunz, M.A.

Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter

Email: raik....@indologie.uni-halle.de

Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 

Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg

Institut für Altertumswissenschaften

Seminar für Indologie

Emil-Abderhalden-Straße 9

D-06108 Halle (Saale)

www.indologie.uni-halle.de

>>> Veeranarayana Pandurangi via INDOLOGY <indo...@list.indology.info> 24.07.19 16.01 Uhr >>>

Dear friends,

 I am baffled by meaning of Vaaka that appears in RV  १,१६४.२४  गायत्रेण प्रति मिमीते अर्कमर्केण साम त्रैष्टुभेन वाकम् ।

१,१६४.२४ वाकेन वाकं द्विपदा चतुष्पदाक्षरेण मिमते सप्त वाणीः ॥

It is also found in MB

“यं वाकेष्वनुवाकेषु निषत्सूपनिषत्सु च । गृणन्ति सत्यकर्म्माणं सत्यं सत्येेेेषु सामनि। 

I  request all of you to kindly Enlighten me.

I have seen S Jamison translation with no use. 

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Jan E.M. Houben

Directeur d'Études, Professor of South Asian History and Philology

Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite

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[Irene Galstian]

This is very interesting news (probably because I live in a cave).
When will Ludwig be out? What made the scholars in charge of this
project take up the translation of a translation?

Thank you,
Irene

On 7/28/19, Jan E.M. Houben <jemh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As far as I know Alfred Ludwig published a translation of the Rgveda into
> German plus commentary plus introduction between 1876 and 1883.
> If this first complete translation of the Rgveda is now being translated
> into English I consider this very good news.
> As for RV 1.164.23-24, 12 years ago I concluded my study of these stanzas
> as follows:
>
> RV 1.16423-24, two enigmatic statements in the "Riddle Hymn," express two
> complementary viewpoints on the relationship between smaller and larger
> units of metrical speech employed in ritual chanting. As such, they provide
> antecedents for two complementary views which play a major role in
> Bhartrhari's Vâkyapadîya, one according to which the units of a lower
> organizational level (especially the word and its meaning) are primary, the
> other according to which units of a higher organizational level (especially
> the sentence and its meaning) are primary.
>
> For those who want to see the full argument I have uploaded the article on
> academia.edu:
> https://www.academia.edu/39950384/RV_1.164.23-24_and_Bhartrharis_philosophy_of_language
> Jan Houben
>
> On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 21:20, Raik Strunz via INDOLOGY <
> indo...@list.indology.info> wrote:
>
>> Dear Veeranarayana Pandurangi,
>>

>> according to Böhtlingk’s PW *vāká*- refers to ‘Spruch, Recitation,

>> Formel im Ritus’ (Apte ‘speech, uttering’), a specific kind of expression
>> destined for the ritual context. Alfred Ludwig (forthcoming) translates
>> the
>> whole stanza:
>>

>> “by the *gâyatra*-metre he measures the *arka*,
>> by the *arka* the *sâma*, by the *trišṭubh*-metre the *vâka* |
>> by the *vâka*, that has two feet, the *vâka* that has four (read:
>> *catušpadam*);

>> by the mora he measures the seven modes of singing || 24 ||”
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> RS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> –––––––––––
>>
>>
>>
>> Raik Strunz, M.A.
>>
>>
>> Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter
>>
>> Email: raik....@indologie.uni-halle.de
>>
>> Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655
>>
>>
>> Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg
>>
>> Institut für Altertumswissenschaften
>>
>> Seminar für Indologie
>>
>> Emil-Abderhalden-Straße 9
>>
>> D-06108 Halle (Saale)
>>
>>
>> www.indologie.uni-halle.de
>>
>> >>> Veeranarayana Pandurangi via INDOLOGY <indo...@list.indology.info>
>> 24.07.19 16.01 Uhr >>>
>>
>>
>> Dear friends,
>> I am baffled by meaning of Vaaka that appears in RV १,१६४.२४ गायत्रेण

>> प्रति मिमीते अर्कमर्केण साम त्रैष्टुभेन *वाकम् ।*
>> १,१६४.२४ *वाकेन वाकं* द्विपदा चतुष्पदाक्षरेण मिमते सप्त वाणीः ॥

>>
>> It is also found in MB

>> “*यं वाकेष्वनुवाकेषु* निषत्सूपनिषत्सु च । गृणन्ति सत्यकर्म्माणं सत्यं

>> सत्येेेेषु सामनि।
>>
>> I request all of you to kindly Enlighten me.
>> I have seen S Jamison translation with no use.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAPnSTeh-OEjeH%2Bxy4mF%2BvBnD4qKrS8CWDCQvTLONhVAuGaGMkw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
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>
>
> --
>

> *Jan E.M. Houben*

>
> Directeur d'Études, Professor of South Asian History and Philology
>

> *Sources et histoire de la tradition sanskrite*

>
> École Pratique des Hautes Études (EPHE, PSL - Université Paris)
>

> *Sciences historiques et philologiques *

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> *johanne...@ephe.sorbonne.fr <johanne...@ephe.sorbonne.fr>*
>
> *johanne...@ephe.psl.eu <johanne...@ephe.psl.eu>*
>
> *https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben
> <https://ephe-sorbonne.academia.edu/JanEMHouben>*

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[Jan E.M. Houben]

this is then even better news...

JH

On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 at 13:39, Raik Strunz <raik....@indologie.uni-halle.de> wrote:

Dear Dr. Houben,

“this first complete translation of the Rgveda [.] now being translated into English” is actually Ludwig’s very own translation of the Rigveda into English. 

He made it in 1885–86 and 1893 (Maṇḍala IX.). Thanks to Prof. Slaje I got the chance to edit and publish this translation from Ludwig’s manuscript that had been bought ca. 1912 onto Oxford, possibly by then Boden Professor Macdonell (based on a comparison of the secondary page count in the ms. with Macdonell’s handwritten numbers in an earlier letter). On some occasions we could find that it differs to his German translation, rarely giving information about exegetical sources he newly consulted. So Ludwig did even after his release of the German translation and the commentaries further on consult this secondary literature, perhaps we should interprete the English RV translation as an update to his German one (also he now counted the hymns in the established manner, not anymore in his very own way by sorting them anew}. 

Maṇḍalas I–V will be published this year in a first volume, and the other five will also come out some time over the next few years.

Best,

Raik Strunz

 

–––––––––––

Raik Strunz, M.A.

Wissenschaftlicher Mitarbeiter

Email: raik....@indologie.uni-halle.de

Tel.: +49 345 / 55 23655 

Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg

Institut für Altertumswissenschaften

Seminar für Indologie

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D-06108 Halle (Saale)

www.indologie.uni-halle.de

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सर॑स्वत्यै॒ स्वाहा॑ ॥

>>> "Jan E.M. Houben" <jemh...@gmail.com> 28.07.19 13.12 Uhr >>>

[Jan E.M. Houben]

As for RV 1.164.24, is "measure" (Ludwig, Jamison-Brereton) really a felicitous translation here?

To my 2007 article I would like to add an *update* 28-7-2019 and revert to my 2000 translation of the verse: 

According to the Gāyatrī (-line) one makes the song of praise (arká); according to the song of praise a chant (saáma), according to the Triṣṭubh 

(-line) the recitation; according to the two- and four-lined recitation (again a larger) recitation; according to the SYLLABLE they make the seven VOICES.

note: With “According to” I revert to my 2000 translation of this verse,
taking the verb in the first line, práti mimīte ‘make in accordance with; copy’ (Grassmann,
1875, p. 1023-1024: práti mā, wonach [I.] ein Lied [A.] bilden) to be valid in the two
subsequent lines, and even in the last line (simplex pro composito) where the verb is explicitly
given as mimate (viz. práti), but the construction with instrumental is continued from the
previous lines. (See further explanation in the article.)

JH

[Veeranarayana Pandurangi]

This was my earlier post in the thread. I am posting it for Bvp list

Dear  Friends, Thanks for positive reply.

however I am concerned that while the translations and interpretations largely concentrate upon words rather than intention.  

for example this translation by Ludwig

 

“by the gâyatra-metre he measures the arka, 

by the arka the sâma, by the trišṭubh-metre the vâka |

by the vâka, that has two feet, the vâka that has four (read: catušpadam); 

by the mora he measures the seven modes of singing || 24 ||”

 

is largely based on Sayana  who is about measuring. परिच्छिनत्ति or संमितान् करोति is the word. 

 

how one is measuring arka by gayatri metre? what arka? how measuring sama by arka? how can one measure vaka by tristubh metre? which two feet vaka? which four feet vaka? by what mora which seven seven modes of singing? 

how prati mimite relates to measuring? 

 

Houben’s translation of 1.164.24 too suffers from same problem-

 

With gayatri (line) one makes the song of praise (arka): with the song of praise a chant, with the tristubh (line) the recitation. With the two and four lined recitation (one makes again a larger) recitation; according to the SYLLABLEthey make the sven VOICES

 

Why and how gayatri line alone is making a song of praise? Why other metre lines are not doing this? Why one making chant by full arka rather than a simple line? Why recitation is made by tristubh lines and not other lines? What kind of recitation is this? Recitions can be made of even a sentence without metre. Why making a larger recitation only by two and four lined recitations? Why not with three five six or hundred line recitations? Why “according” is added here when it is not understood in previous lines? What are the seven voices? (this is guessed as voices belonging to seven priests) why one seven voices? Not hundred voices? (Even a single voice too made according to syllable)

 

How prati mimite refers to “make”

There are somany uses of prati mi (ma)

किं स ऋधक्कृणवद्यं सहस्रं मासो जभार शरदश्च पूर्वीः । नही न्वस्य प्रतिमानमस्त्यन्तर्जातेषूत ये जनित्वाः ॥४,०१८.०४ इति, प्र तुविद्युम्नस्य स्थविरस्य घृष्वेर्दिवो ररप्शे महिमा पृथिव्याः । नास्य शत्रुर्न प्रतिमानमस्ति न प्रतिष्ठिः पुरुमायस्य सह्योः ॥६,०१८.१२ त्वमस्य पारे रजसो व्योमनः स्वभूत्योजा अवसे धृषन्मनः । चकृषे भूमिं प्रतिमानमोजसोऽपः स्वः परिभूरेष्या दिवम् ॥ त्वं भुवः प्रतिमानं पृथिव्या ऋष्ववीरस्य बृहतः पतिर्भूः । विश्वमाप्रा अन्तरिक्षं महित्वा सत्यमद्धा नकिरन्यस्त्वावान् ॥१,०५२. १२-१३  गोजिता बाहू अमितक्रतुः सिमः कर्मन्कर्मञ्छतमूतिः खजङ्करः । अकल्प इन्द्रः प्रतिमानमोजसाथा जना वि ह्वयन्ते सिषासवः ॥ १,१०२.०६  त्रिविष्टिधातु प्रतिमानमोजसस्तिस्रो भूमीर्नृपते त्रीणि रोचना । अतीदं विश्वं भुवनं ववक्षिथाशत्रुरिन्द्र जनुषा सनादसि ॥१,१०२.०८  यो विश्वस्य प्रतिमानं बभूव यो अच्युतच्युत्स जनास इन्द्रः ॥२,०१२.०९  आपान्तमन्युस्तृपलप्रभर्मा धुनिः शिमीवाञ्छरुमां ऋजीषी । सोमो विश्वान्यतसा वनानि नार्वागिन्द्रं प्रतिमानानि देभुः ॥ (१०,०८९.०५) न अर्वाक् इन्द्रम् प्रतिमानानि दभ्नुवन्ति, यैर् एनम् प्रतिमिमते न एनम् तानि दभ्नुवन्त्य् अर्वाक् एव एनम् अप्राप्य विनश्यन्ति इति निरुक्तम्।  इन्द्रो दिवः प्रतिमानं पृथिव्या विश्वा वेद सवना हन्ति शुष्णम् । महीं चिद्द्यामातनोत्सूर्येण चास्कम्भ चित्कम्भनेन स्कभीयान् ॥ (१०,१११.०५) स्तुषेय्यं पुरुवर्पसमृभ्वमिनतममाप्त्यमाप्त्यानाम् । आ दर्षते शवसा सप्त दानून्प्र साक्षते प्रतिमानानि भूरि ॥ (१०,१२०.०६) वि सूर्यो मध्ये अमुचद्रथं दिवो विदद्दासाय प्रतिमानमार्यः । दृळ्हानि पिप्रोरसुरस्य मायिन इन्द्रो व्यास्यच्चकृवां ऋजिश्वना ॥ (१०,१३८.०३)

Why aksara means syllable? When it is used in different meaning in same context ऋचो अक्षरे परमे व्योमन्यस्मिन्देवा अधि विश्वे निषेदुः । यस्तन्न वेद किमृचा करिष्यति य इत्तद्विदुस्त इमे समासते ॥(१,१६४.३९) This mantra apparently does not refer to Syllable, because a person who does not know syllable can not know Rk. Then what is the fun of censuring such a person “what one will do with Rks if he does not know syllable”

How those who know Aksara sit comfortably? Everybody knows syllables. What is speciality of this Syllable?

 

Again the translation of 1.164.23 by Houben raises this question--

“That the  Gayatri (line) is based on the Gayatri (hymn) (the smaller on the larger unit, rather than the other way round), and that the Tristubh (line) is fashioned of Tristubh (hymn) and that the Jagati LINE is based on the Jagati (hymn): only those who know this have attained immortality”

Why only three metres are quoted here? When the concept is that smaller part is derived from larger.  Why Pada means only line and not anything line  तद्विष्णोः परमं पदं सदा पश्यन्ति सूरयः ।  दिवीव चक्षुराततम् ॥ १,०२२.२०  तद्विप्रासो विपन्यवो जागृवांसः समिन्धते । विष्णोर्यत्परमं पदम् ॥ १,०२२.२१

The bigger questione is How one attains amrtatva by knowing this base of hymns?

Jamison translation is same as Houben. It does not make much sense. 

I have revieved Jamison on 1.154  in the linkhttps://www.academia.edu/39520019/VISNU_SUKTA_1.154_A_Review_of_Commentaries_and_New_Translation_of_Rgvedas    

Translation should be meant to convey the inner meaning rather than word to word measurement which has pierced all the translations of Rgveda so far.  

Please let me know if there are any credible interpretations available anywhere

 thanks again for kindling interest in your translations