On Krishna getting his army killed

[Raunak Dhar]

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_67bb27f9-8d2f-40e1-9307-be6ce2d3c25d

Any comments on this? 

[sandeep k]

Namaste Raunak, 

The Grok argument conveniently considers Krishna as Bhagawan in one case vs other so it is not a rational conclusion. This is a classic case of how Artificial intelligence fails in reality.

Details:

Answering First question Grok describes how Krishna is God and has a divine plan. Looks good. 

Grok after the second question has illogical arguments. It assumes that Krishna is the Lord and knows that Duryodhana is going to lose but (midlessly) assumes Krishna as ordinary man when he offers to Duryodhana and Krishna.

When asked to analyse as an ordinary man or a normal King, Grok analyzes and says he "Krishna's action looks like cold political calculation at the direct expense of his own people." and "He sends them to be slaughtered while he stays protected on the winning team.". Think, if he is an ordinary King, he does not know the end outcome of the war and has offered his services (supposedly) equally (by dividing the army and himself and offering them. Mind that he also promised he would not fight even if they got him on their side) to Duryodhana and Arjuna. Even by normal man speculation, Duryodhana was stronger and in power so Narayanee sena would be expected to win so betrayal is out of question.

For the question that he did not consult his army for making that decision, as a King he can decide whatever he seems fit. All the kings participated in the war except the Udipi King who offered catering services. Krishna's army would not be left out like that, he gave them clear direction. Imagine as he is offering himself, there is a risk of him getting killed also, in that case the army will be directionless. So he did his will very apt to the situation as a common man.

The reason for his offer was that unarmed Krishna (though he was the King), was on one side and he wouldn't fight. While very capable Narayanee sena would fight loyally on the other side.

Grok also assumes he fought his own army but no, he did not. He just advised Pandavas.

Dhanyawad.

On Sat, Mar 14, 2026 at 11:20 PM Raunak Dhar <mynameisr...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_67bb27f9-8d2f-40e1-9307-be6ce2d3c25d

Any comments on this? 

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[Kalyan Chakravarthy]

On this topic, the following verses from the भगवद्गीता are relevant -

श्री भगवानुवाच

कालोऽस्मि लोकक्षयकृत्प्रवृद्धो
लोकान्समाहर्तुमिह प्रवृत्तः।
ऋतेऽपि त्वां न भविष्यन्ति सर्वे
येऽवस्थिताः प्रत्यनीकेषु योधाः।।11.32।।

The Lord said - I am the world-destroying Time. Manifesting Myself fully, I have begun to destroy the worlds here. Even without You, none of the warriors arrayed in the hostile armies shall survive.

Earlier, Arjuna says on seeing the विश्वरूप - 

अमी च त्वां धृतराष्ट्रस्य पुत्राः

सर्वे सहैवावनिपालसङ्घैः।
भीष्मो द्रोणः सूतपुत्रस्तथाऽसौ
सहास्मदीयैरपि योधमुख्यैः।।11.26।।

वक्त्राणि ते त्वरमाणा विशन्ति

दंष्ट्राकरालानि भयानकानि।

केचिद्विलग्ना दशनान्तरेषु

संदृश्यन्ते चूर्णितैरुत्तमाङ्गैः।।11.27।।

All these sons of Dhrtarastra together with the hosts of monarchs, Bhisma, Drona and Karna along with the **leading warriors of our side**,....Hasten to enter Your fearful mouths with terrible fangs. Some, caught between the teeth are seen with their heads crushed to powder.

As Time, BhagavAn brings about the destruction of the warriors on both sides. 

श्रीकृष्णार्पणम्

[Raunak Dhar]

By the logic of "I am a destroyer", everything becomes legitimized then. 

The question, however, is getting one's own clan warriors killed en masse. This truly is betrayal. This truly is abusing their loyalty. This truly is callousness on the level of a Joseph Stalin or a Ghinghis Khan. And even with all the mental gymnastics, it is still a failure to not only protect one's people, but to actively contribute to their mass butchery.

Would it be okay if Modi gets all of Indian Army destroyed and say "this is for upholding Dharma" and "btw I am a destroyer, so all is well"?

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[Kalyan Chakravarthy]

When I actually look at the chat with Grok, I see these statements made -

>"Leave aside how later commentators and Puranas rationalize it. Just look at Mahabharata and judge this action of Krishna as if he were an ordinary man."

The above statement seems to suggest that the Mahabharata somehow treats Krishna as an ordinary human. 

But this is not correct. There are several places in the Mahabharata, from almost all the parvas, right from the beginning to the end, where Krishna's Divine status is repeatedly mentioned and reiterated. This is neither a later commentary nor a later rationalization. 

Therefore, before proceeding with further discussion, there needs to be agreement on what pramANa-s are accepted. Then we can look at what those pramANa-s state. If Mahabharata is accepted as a pramANa, then Krishna cannot be treated as an ordinary human. If there is concern about interpolations, then such aspects too can be discussed. 

श्रीकृष्णार्पणम्

[Raunak Dhar]

Hello Mr Chakravarthy.

When I write to Grok to treat Krishna as ordinary human and judge him based on what is in Mahabharata, I am not implying that Mahabharata calls Krishna an ordinary human. 

I am merely asking to not give any special exceptions which people of all religions give to their religious authorities. I am simply asking to judge the character of Krishna ordinarily i-e objectively, so we don't accept such things as okay which we would not accept from anyone else who doesn't have cultural authority. 

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[Kalyan Chakravarthy]

In this case, the reply given by Sandeep ji is already very good and addresses the points well.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणम्

[Abhishek Mehta]

From a strategic point of view having members loyal to you to be in the opposite faction is the easiest way to weaken them internally and take them down. This is exactly how superpowers like US maintain their supremacy even in front of very strong foes like USSR.

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[Papia Mitra]

Hello Mr. Dhar,

the whole point of Krishna as God is that he is God. So how can one judge him objectively as if he is ordinary human? 

Modi in spite of his brief sudden claim to be nonbiological is not considered to be God. 

If you are trying to show that  Krishna cannot be god because of this, that is a whole different argument. 

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--

There is no Brahman. There is only ME.

[Raunak Dhar]

Is this what was happening?

Weakening the other side? 

I think you are bringing totally new hypotheses here; speculations that are unwarranted by any actual material in the text. 

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[Raunak Dhar]

I read the Mahabharata like I read the Illiad or The Lord of the Rings—as a magical story from which you can learn things about the nature of human life.

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[Abhishek Mehta]

Either you quote the relevant verses to refute me or you can stay silent. I don't tolerate rhetorics here. It was an educated guess based on my reading of the Adiparva and sabhaparva. But you are welcome to refute me with the verses.

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[Rajaram Krishnamurthy]

The answer is already said as under :

B G war and death justification explained

mad-anugrahaya paramam guhyam adhyatma-sanjnitam
yat tvayoktam vachas tena moho ’yam vigato mama

BG 11.1: Arjun said: Having heard the supremely confidential spiritual knowledge, which You have revealed out of compassion for me, my illusion is now dispelled.

bhavapyayau hi bhutanam shrutau vistarasho maya

tvattah kamala-patraksha mahatmyam api chavyayam

BG 11.2: I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of all living beings, O Lotus-eyed One, and also about Your eternal magnificence.

ihaika-stham jagat kritsnam pashyadya sa-characharam

mama dehe gudakesha yach chanyad drashtum ichchhasi

BG 11.7: Behold now, Arjun, the entire universe, with everything moving and non-moving, assembled together in My universal form. Whatever else you wish to see, observe it all within this universal form.

tvam aksharam paramam veditavyam

tvam asya vishvasya param nidhanam

tvam avyayah shashvata-dharma-gopta

sanatanas tvam purusho mato me

BG 11.18: I recognize You as the supreme imperishable being, the Ultimate Truth to be known by the scriptures. You are the support of all creation; You are the eternal protector of Sanātan Dharma (the Eternal Religion); and You are the everlasting Supreme Divine Personality.

anadi-madhyantam ananta-viryam

ananta-bahum shashi-surya-netram

pashyami tvam dipta-hutasha-vaktram

sva-tejasa vishvam idam tapantam

 

BG 11.19: You are without beginning, middle, or end; Your power has no limits. Your arms are infinite; the sun and the moon are like Your eyes, and fire is like Your mouth. I see you warming the entire creation by Your radiance.

nabhah-sprisham diptam aneka-varnam

vyattananam dipta-vishala-netram

drishtva hi tvam pravyathitantar-atma

dhritim na vindami shamam cha vishno

BG 11.24: O Lord Vishnu, seeing Your form touching the sky, effulgent in many colors, with mouths wide open and enormous blazing eyes, my heart is trembling with fear. I have lost all courage and peace of mind.

ami cha tvam dhritarashtrasya putrah

sarve sahaivavani-pala-sanghaih

bhishmo dronah suta-putras tathasau

sahasmadiyair api yodha-mukhyaih

vaktrani te tvaramana vishanti

danshtra-karalani bhayanakani

kechid vilagna dashanantareshu

sandrishyante churnitair uttamangaih

BG 11.26-27: I see all the sons of Dhritarashtra, along with their allied kings, including Bheeshma, Dronacharya, Karn, and also the generals from our side, rushing headlong into Your fearsome mouths. I see some with their heads smashed between Your terrible teeth.

yatha nadinam bahavo ’mbu-vegah

samudram evabhimukha dravanti

tatha tavami nara-loka-vira

vishanti vaktrany abhivijvalanti

yatha pradiptam jvalanam patanga

vishanti nashaya samriddha-vegah

tathaiva nashaya vishanti lokas

tavapi vaktrani samriddha-vegah

BG 11.28-29: As many waves of the rivers flowing rapidly into the ocean, so are all these great warriors entering into Your blazing mouths. As moths rush with great speed into the fire to perish, so are all these armies entering with great speed into Your mouths.

lelihyase grasamanah samantal

lokan samagran vadanair jvaladbhih

tejobhir apurya jagat samagram

bhasas tavograh pratapanti vishno

BG 11.30: With Your fiery tongues You are licking up the hosts of living beings on all sides and devouring them with Your blazing mouths. O Vishnu, You are scorching the entire universe with the fierce, all-pervading rays of Your effulgence.

shri-bhagavan uvacha

kalo ’smi loka-kshaya-krit pravriddho

lokan samahartum iha pravrittah

rite ’pi tvam na bhavishyanti sarve

ye ’vasthitah pratyanikeshu yodhah

BG 11.32: The Supreme Lord said: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.

tasmat tvam uttishtha yasho labhasva

jitva shatrun bhunkshva rajyam samriddham

mayaivaite nihatah purvam eva

nimitta-matram bhava savya-sachin

BG 11.33: Therefore, arise and attain honor! Conquer your foes and enjoy prosperous rulership. These warriors stand already slain by Me, and you will only be an instrument of My work, O expert archer.

dronam cha bhishmam cha jayadratham cha

karnam tathanyan api yodha-viran

maya hatams tvam jahi ma vyathishtha

yudhyasva jetasi rane sapatnan

BG 11.34: Dronacharya, Bheeshma, Jayadratha, Karn, and other brave warriors have already been killed by Me. Therefore, slay them without being disturbed. Just fight and you will be victorious over your enemies in battle.

tvam adi-devah purushah puranas

tvam asya vishvasya param nidhanam

vettasi vedyam cha param cha dhama

tvaya tatam vishvam ananta-rupa

BG 11.38: You are the primeval God and the original Divine Personality; You are the sole resting place of this universe. You are both the knower and the object of knowledge; You are the Supreme Abode. O possessor of infinite forms, You alone pervade the entire universe    KR IRS 17326

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[Abhishek Mehta]

My guesswork is almost always correct. But regardless of that I will share verses once I get to that part of Mahabharata.

On Tue, Mar 17, 2026, 1:28 PM Raunak Dhar <mynameisr...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is nothing to refute in your speculations.

You are the one who is bringing total guesswork here. Burden of proof lies on you to justify your guesswork, not on me to refute. 

[Sandeepk252]

Raunakji Namaskar,

Mahaanubhaav 🙏🏻 You are welcome to read any way you want but I beg to differ when you compare Mahabharat with Lord of the rings (really? Lord of the rings?). I am not scholarly like you but want to humbly suggest that various scholars have explained Mahabharat in different ways, which you might like to help with perspective. 

Remember it is not a novel but a piece of our own history. You can see poetic freedom here and there but life lessons are powerful and still relevant if you try to apply. 

Thanks

On Mar 17, 2026, at 1:32 AM, Raunak Dhar <mynameisr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Sreedhar Chintalapaty]

I continued the conversation on Grok, reminding it to not superimpose Modern Western Ethics on an Ancient Indian Scenario (neither should we!). Since I personally prefer avoiding premature appeals to Godhood, I asked it to treat Krishna as a Kshatriya man. Here's is the conclusion it came to:

The epic itself does not explicitly condemn Krishna here (it presents it matter-of-factly as clever diplomacy). Many characters admire his neutrality and wisdom. However, the action fits a pattern in the Mahabharata where even great figures make hard, sometimes harsh choices under dharma's conflicting layers: personal/kin ties, political necessity, and the larger cosmic order of the war (relieving Earth's burden is implied in the setup, though you asked to set later rationales aside).

Your point stands that both Krishna and the Narayani Sena act loyally within their roles: the troops to their assigned duty/commander; Krishna to his chosen side and counsel. In pure Mahabharata dharma, higher loyalty often trumps strict clan preservation—dharma (as Krishna later expounds in the Gita) can demand transcending ordinary kula bonds when adharma threatens the world. The Kauravas are also distant kin, but the war's framing justifies siding against their excesses.

From this internal ancient lens, Krishna's move is pragmatic kshatriya realpolitik: he avoids committing his full force to either side fully, prevents total Yadava fratricide at the outset, and tilts toward what the text portrays as the righteous cause. It costs his warriors dearly, but in an epic where entire akshauhinis are fodder for dharma's victory, and where leaders like Bhishma accept clan destruction for their oaths, it's not portrayed as simple betrayal or forsaking. It's a leader's calculated risk in a dharmic war.

If we stick rigidly to "protect your own above all," then yes—it falls short. But the Mahabharata repeatedly shows dharma as complex and hierarchical, not absolute clan loyalty. Krishna navigates that complexity without the text calling him disloyal. That's the judgment on its own terms.

Best Regards,

Sreedhar

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[Rajaram Krishnamurthy]

1   kRISHNA WAS yADHAVA SO NOT A KSHATRIYA

2   KRISHNA WAS FAIR ENOUGH TO OFFER EITHER HIM OR HIS FORCE THAT TOO GIVING THE FIRST CHOICE TO DURYODHANA; BUT DURYODHANE CHOSE A WRONG ONE; ONLY LEFTOUT WAS GIVEN TO PANDAVAS. 

3    BEFORE WAR, PANDAVAS WERE NOT EVEN PREPARED FOR RULING OR WAR; BUT WHEN DURYODHANA AS KING OWNING A LARGE AREA, REFUSED TO PART WITH EVEN 5 HOUSES, NOW DHARMA IS LOST; THE KINGDOM SHALL GO ONLY TO PNDAVAS AFTER THEIR FATHER; BUT DRIDARASHTRA USURPED IT; AND DENYING 5 HOUSES ONLY OUT OF THEIR PROPRIETY, IS ADHARMIC. SO INEVITABLE WAR. 

4        IN LOVE AND WAR THERE ARE NO HARD ANDFAST RULES; ONLY DIPLOMACY TO SHORTEN THE WAR; THAT IS WHAT TRUMP TODAY DOING AS A GOABEL; KARNA HAD THE ARROGANCE OF SHOOTING ONLY TO TAKE OFF ARJUNA-HEAD; SULLIAN UNCLE OF PANDAVAS RUTHLESSLY ADVISED KARNA TO AIM TO STOMACK; KARNA WAS ARROGANT; SO WHEN PRESSED BY KRISHNA IT TOOK OFF THE FLAG. DURYODHANA BANGED HIS THIGHS WWHEN DISROBING HIS MOTHER EQUIVALENT BROTHER WIFE; SO HAD TO BE TORNED AND CROSSING THE LEGS WAS DIPLOMACY. DRONA AS AGURU OUGHT TO HAVE ENQUIRED WHETHER HIS SON IS DEAD; BUT A GURU WHO TEACHES AVOID PASSION WENT INTO IT SO DIED. BHISHMA PRINCIPLE NOT TO FIGHT WITH A NAPUMSAKA BROUGHT BROUGHT THE REFUSAL TO FIGHT AND CHOOSE A KASHATRIYA DEATH. ADHARMA DESTROYED THE EVILS IN ENTIRETY. KRISHNA WAS A DIPLOMAT AND NOT AN ADHARMIC.

5   AND A LITTLE ADHARMA EXPANDING INTO KALIYUGA AT THAT BORDER 3102 BCEE. NOW KRISHNA IS NEEDED BUT..........

K RAJARAM IRS 280326 

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[Pradeep Phutane]

While I may not be an expert in the subject, as a humble student, I find it a futile exercise to argue with machines or the foolish. The metaphorical interpretation of the Mahabharata has intrigued intellectuals and devotees alike for centuries.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2026 at 9:50 AM Raunak Dhar <mynameisr...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_67bb27f9-8d2f-40e1-9307-be6ce2d3c25d

Any comments on this? 

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[Rajaram Krishnamurthy]

SIMPLE MY DEAR WATSON; IF INTELLIGENT HE WILL BE FEEDING THE MACHINES RIGHT STUFF AND AVOID THE FOOLISH; WHERE ONE READ THE MAHABHARATA AND BHAGAVAD GITA ENTIRELY THAT TOO THE WRITE UP OF MANY NON-INTRIGUED CUM NONCHALANT -INTELLECTUALS ,WRITTEN SO SIMPLY, THE GUHYA THE SECRET IS REVEALED THERE ITSELF. K SARA SARA WHAT WILL BE WILL BE; PREDETERMINED KARMAS SHALL FOLLOW SUIT . GOD GAS NO PARTIALITY; THEETHUM NANDRUM PIRAR THARA VAARA. K RAJARAM IRS 29326

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