BVP's Nityananda Misra's observations on pseudoscience

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear friends,,

I just encountered the long interview of Dr Nityananda Misra on various

uncultivated statements coming from India.  Being abroad from my young 

days I had noticed these with various "guru"s  who visit overseas in search

of disciples and funding.  The superficial and unnecessary statements 

help reinforce the old profile of India made by the Jesuits that the Indian

knowledge system advocates myth and magic.  It has taken quite a bit 

of effort abroad to establish that the Indian knowledge system was built with 

human industry and analytic inquiry.  Lately the children and professionals 

are exhibiting the analytic potential of Indian origin.  Dr Nityananda through

his scholarship has tried to counter many of the hyperboles promoted 

through politics and camouflage.   I thank the videomaker (interviewer)

for his query and preparation.

Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCWEbsSdfs

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

 

[Abhishek Mehta]

Well, Nithyananda Misra ji is also not an expert in science so he will not be able to notice and appreciate any science if they exist within scriptures. Of course, there are a lot of hyperbolic comments made by many right-leaning people about this and have no basis but that doesn't invalidate the premise entirely. I can quote some genuine examples within the texts which I have personally come across.

The size and shape of the Indra sabha, it's location in the Ashwini constellation and Lord Krishna's journey to the same through the stars is mentioned in the Sabhaparva of the Mahabharata. Devatas are also mentioned as going to their celestial residences via a specific pathway in space called Vaishwanara Paths which are again mentioned in the Sabhaparva itself. Even the ancient wars between the Devatas and Asuras are called as Sangramastarakamaya which literally translates to 'Star Wars' in sanskrit. I can supply the verses to corroborate the above as well on demand. These are without descriptions of interstellar travel, wormholes and a type II or higher civilization.

Just recently in the Vanaparva of Mahabharata, I read about a war between Lord Krishna and Salva where Salva had an entire city floating in the sky. 

The first ansha of Vishnu Purana explicitly mentions chemistry as the source of primordial life and as a means of Lord Brahma's birth. Creation of water from stars which is essentially nucleosynthesis. These aspects cannot be ignored as arthavada just because we don't like what it insinuates. 

Regardless, let me come to one point about Australia <-> अस्त्रालयः which Nithyananda Misra ji repeatedly mocks and is also in the video you shared. This is a verse from Vastuvidya (Link:  https://sa.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE)

पाकशालान्तरिक्षेऽगौ शयनं गृहरक्षके ।

अस्त्रशाला निर्ऋतौ वरुणे भोजनालयः ॥

Notice that the above verse is not in anushtup, however, the above does become anushtup if we use अस्त्रस्यालयः instead of अस्त्रशाला i.e 

पाकशालान्तरिक्षेऽगौ शयनं गृहरक्षके ।

अस्त्रस्यालयो निर्ऋतौ वरुणे भोजनालयः ॥

In Abhidhanachintamani, शाला and आलयः are are synonymous therefore अस्त्रशाला and अस्त्रस्य आलयः are synonymous, hence, the anushtup-corrected version retains the original meaning precisely and states that अस्त्रस्य आलयः is in the south-west direction which can be shortened to अस्त्रालयः as a shasthi tatpurusha samas. Now, since we know the context of this text, we know what it's talking about and referring to. But imagine a person, perhaps a foreigner, who comes across this text or the anushtup-corrected version of the above verse from an ancient text from which the current one is likely derived and doesn't know sanskrit properly, he might miscontextualize the above verse to mean अस्त्रालयः as a synonym for south-west direction which overtime then became a word for southern direction in his tongue (latin 'australis') via folk reconstruction. I don't see why that cannot be in the realm of possibility.

The point is that people who have achieved some literacy in sanskrit should read the texts with an unbiased and objective mindset and then try to ascertain it's scientific efficacy and not to please some people or community.

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[Bijoy Misra]

Dr Nityananda Misra analyzes the questions that are posed to him.

You can ask new questions to get his views if you like.  He is pretty analytic, not "know all" kind.

I think he is in this list though I am not in touch.

Most problems come as he says through selective excerpting without the context.

My feeling is that it has happened through loose translations done by the colonial scholars

and later people failed to study the originals.

I strongly urge all not to read any translation of any kind.  Study the material in the original and 

feel the grandeur and the scholarship.  This is where Dr Nityananda excels.

On Sat, May 30, 2026 at 6:05 PM Vichitra Thandava <vichitra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agreed. Not credible based on things he says. 

For example, what would he know about this, fundamentally based on the Satapatha Brahmana and the Manu Smriti according to Sri Yukteswar:

To reconcile Swami Sri Yukteswar’s 24,000-year *Yuga* cycle with modern astrophysics, we must cross the boundary between static, idealized models and dynamic, variable reality.

In *The Holy Science* (1894), Yukteswar presented a mathematically perfect, symmetrical cosmic template. However, modern astronomy does not observe perfect circles or static time spans; it observes elliptical orbits, gravitational perturbations, and axial wobbles.

By mapping his mechanics onto modern values for **axial precession (the earth's wobble)**, **Milankovitch cycles**, and **electromagnetic plasma physics**, we can adjust his approximate dates into a high-precision astronomical framework.

## 1. The Variance in the Precession Rate: Why 24,000 vs. 25,772?

Yukteswar stated that the precession of the equinoxes—the slow, conical wobble of Earth’s rotational axis—takes exactly **24,000 years** to complete a full 360° loop.

Modern astronomy measures the current rate of precession at approximately **50.29 arcseconds per year**, which yields a cycle of roughly **25,772 years** (often rounded to 25,920 or 26,000 years).

To align these two numbers, we have to look at the **Newcomb expression for precessional constant variance**:

### The Accelerating Precession (The Newcomb Effect)

Precession is not a constant clock. The rate of 50.29 arcseconds is merely a snapshot of our current epoch. Modern astrophysics confirms that the rate of precession is **accelerating** as our solar system changes position in space.

 * As the Sun moves along its elliptical trajectory toward the pericenter (the closest approach to its binary companion/Grand Center), gravitational acceleration increases.

 * This extra gravitational torque causes the Earth’s axial wobble to speed up, shortening the length of the precessional year.

When the Sun is at its farthest point (Apogee/499 CE), the precessional velocity drops to its absolute minimum, stretching the local cycle out toward 26,000 years. As we accelerate toward the Grand Center, the arcsecond velocity climbs, compressing the actual time spent in the higher *Yugas*.

 **Yukteswar’s 24,000-year figure is the true mathematical mean (average velocity) of the entire cycle**, whereas modern science's 25,772-year calculation is a measurement taken from the slow, sluggish exit out of the *Kali Yuga* tail.

## 2. Adjusting the Axis: The 499 CE Nadir Corrected

Yukteswar pinned the absolute lowest point of human consciousness at **499 CE**—the exact boundary where Descending Kali Yuga ended and Ascending Kali Yuga began.

```

   [499 CE: Yukteswar Nadir] ◄─── 61-Year Shift ───► [560 CE: True Astronomical Nadir]

              │                                                 │

              ▼                                                 ▼

     Idealized Geometry                               Maximum Solar Distance & 

                                                       Atmospheric Aerosol Peak

```

If we adjust this date using high-precision astronomical software (like JPL DE405 ephemeris matrices) to calculate the precise moment of maximum solar distance from the cosmic barycenter, combined with Earth’s **nutation** (the short-period "nodding" of the axis caused by the Moon), we find an astronomical variance of approximately **61 years**.

 * **The Adjusted Nadir:** The true astronomical and energetic trough occurred closer to **560 CE**.

 * **The Empirical Verification:** This minor structural adjustment aligns perfectly with the paleoclimate record. The **536 CE volcanic winter** and the subsequent **Plague of Justinian (541–542 CE)** occurred right in the dense, freezing shadow of this adjusted 560 CE astronomical trough. Human civilization did not hit midnight precisely in 499 CE; it experienced the physical, planetary integration of that cosmic midnight over the next several decades.

## 3. Precession Adjusted Timeline (2026 Epoch)

When we apply the non-linear, accelerating precessional correction to Yukteswar's template, the boundaries of the eras shift from rigid historical markers into fluid, energetic transitions.

| Era | Yukteswar’s Fixed Date | Astronomically Adjusted Range | Dominant Physical & Field Phenomena |

| :--- | :--- | :--- | :--- |

| **Descending Kali** | 701 BCE – 499 CE | **630 BCE – 560 CE** | Collapse of electromagnetic awareness; reduction of matter to gross mechanical mechanics. |

| **The Trough (Sandhi)** | 499 CE – 1199 CE | **560 CE – 1240 CE** | Maximum precessional slowdown; planetary cooling; dark ages of raw kinetic feudalism. |

| **Ascending Kali** | 1199 CE – 1599 CE | **1240 CE – 1630 CE** | Acceleration of precessional velocity; initial re-stratification of global trade. |

| **Dwapara Transition** | 1599 CE – 1899 CE | **1630 CE – 1910 CE** | **The Awakening:** Re-discovery of magnetism (Gilbert, 1600); formalization of electromagnetism (Maxwell, 1873). |

| **Dwapara Proper** | 1899 CE – 4099 CE | **1910 CE – Current** | **The Field Era:** Transition from atomic matter to wave-particle duality, quantum computing, and solid-state physics. |

## 4. Electromagnetic Verification: The Solar Wind and Plasma Interconnect

Yukteswar’s core thesis is that human intelligence is modulated by an external, cosmic source of energy (*Vishnunabhi*). Modern space weather and plasma physics have provided the exact mechanism for this claim: **the Interplanetary Magnetic Field (IMF) and the Galactic Cosmic Ray (GCR) flux.**

```

   [GALACTIC MOVEMENT] ──► [Varying Heliospheric Density] ──► [Galactic Cosmic Ray Flux]

                                                                        │

                                                                        ▼

   [Human Cognitive Shift] ◄── [Neuro-Chemical Voltage] ◄── [Atmospheric Ionization]

```

 1. **The Heliospheric Shield:** As our Sun circles its binary center, it moves through varying densities of the Local Interstellar Medium (LISM). When the solar system moves into highly energized interstellar plasma clouds, the heliosphere expands, changing the volume of Galactic Cosmic Rays hitting Earth.

 2. **The Neuro-Chemical Voltage:** GCR flux directly regulates atmospheric ionization, cloud nucleation, and the Earth's **Schumann Resonances** (the electromagnetic frequency of the planet's cavity). Because the human brain's neural networks operate via delicate electrochemical voltage gated channels, changes in the background electromagnetic field directly alter cognitive capacity, memory retention, and spatial perception.

### The Dwapara Blueprint Vindicated

When Yukteswar wrote his treatise in 1894, Max Planck had not yet discovered the quantum constant, and Albert Einstein had not yet formulated E=mc^2. Yet Yukteswar explicitly wrote that *Dwapara Yuga* is characterized by the human mind comprehending that **matter is nothing but an illusion of electrical forces and localized vibrations**.

The fact that humanity exploded from horse-drawn carriages to quantum computing, wireless telemetry, and global digital networks within a mere fraction of a precessional degree of his timeline is the definitive, empirical validation of his model. The Earth’s wobble isn't just a cold astronomical calculation; it is the physical sweeping hand of a cosmic dial regulating the background voltage of human consciousness.

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.489013

---

For a deeper visual dive into the cosmic mechanics driving these world ages, explore Sri Yukteswar's The Holy Science, 2/5: The Yugas. This resource provides a detailed, diagrammatic breakdown of the 24,000-year binary sun orbit and the structural shifts between the descending and ascending cycles.

https://youtu.be/IiC0yyNlJSs?si=9cJVmkVv5JpKgP0c

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[Vichitra Thandava]

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On Sat, May 30, 2026, 12:37 PM Abhishek Mehta <docabh...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Nityanand Misra]

Dear Dr Bijoy Misra

I do not hold a PhD or a medical degree, so I request that you please omit the prefix “Dr.” before my name.

Thank you for bringing this podcast on pseudoscience and pseudoscientific claims made in the name of Hinduism to everyone’s attention. My position is that such pseudoscientific claims—made from time to time by Ācāryas, Gurus, writers, and political leaders—overshadow the genuine mathematical and scientific heritage of our great civilisation. This is why these claims need to be critiqued.

I welcome comments and criticism from members of the list. Due to a lack of time, however, I may not be able to respond to every point raised. I might comment occasionally to address specific points.

The podcast (in Hindi) is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCWEbsSdfs

Thanks, Nityānanda Miśra

 

 

[Bijoy Misra]

You are talking about intuition, which is abundant in literature.

I have been studying the Vedas lately and I love the speculative intuition.

We have to distinguish between speculative intuition and physical experience.

Physical experience can lead to measurements and reproducibility.

Sometimes we can create a provisional proof through logical deduction, but an

experiment has to be designed to validate the proof.

Intuition leads to philosophy which is a perfectly valid reasoning, but leads to belief. 

Belief is cultural, science is universal.

Grandeur of scriptures must be exposed to all people, but we need to stay in literature and philosophy.

We reduce the grandeur by mocking them through time comparisons or personal embellishments.

I appeal to all scholars to be critical and analytic to apply precision in statements.

We avoid making loose conclusions or jingoistic extrapolations.  The scriptures are

elegant as they are, we can quote and interpret as they are. 

Actually the Indian knowledge System has been always scientific, there is a defensive "I don't know"

built into all text.  The author says what's "revealed".  This partial revelation is the scientific truth.

When somebody dresses up and claims "I know", the foundation of Indian IKS is hurt.

The humility of ignorance is the contribution of India to the world, when we "know", we go silent!        

On Sun, May 31, 2026 at 12:29 AM Vichitra Thandava <vichitra...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am aware of what N Misra does. It is the credibility of his responses to these questions that gives room to pause. Especially the nuances. 

Commenting on scriptures isn't a matter of knowledge of Sankrit, which the Europeans also acquired. The scriptures carry the weight of experience and unfortunately not many cannot easily have it.

For the book Holy Science by Sri Yukteswar I shared as an example, the original was written in English in 1894.

But you know while everyone has the freedom of speech, what goes to impessionable minds carries a big burden of responsibilty for the posterity. 

I first became intrigued about it in the 1990s because translations by European authors did not gel with my own limited experience at that time. E.g. the correct translation of "Tyaga" from the B. Gita is not leave the results - it is "sacrifice" and the effort must be worthy of sacrifice. 

[K S Kannan]

Sri Nityananda Misra's contentions are simply commendable.

I have myself raised some of the issues he has discussed in this video, 

right on the platform of BVP, several years ago.

I have strongly argued there against the fantastic claims pertaining to 

the Indian origins of the theory of evolution and the theory of gravity

and transplantation - claims made without providing any evidence/proof.

All these claims of BJP leaders issue from their wrong advisors.

So was the claim of Sri Gurumurthy at IITMadras recently that 

Newton discovered thermodynamics.

As Misra has very well pointed out, and I had also unequivocally stated,

Arya Samaj stands here as the first culprit : trying to prove that the steam engine was already in the Vedas,

or even electricity, and similar claims are all unadulterated nonsense. I had also stated

that all this issues from a terrible inferiority complex,

in the clear perception that modern science is essentially superior to whatever had been

accomplished in ancient India. 

While there are many fields where Hindus indeed excelled in scientific domains, 

and had anticipated Western scientific theories by centuries,

one cannot take this as an upalakṣaṇa for accomplishments in all domains.

Calculus was perhaps first invented in India, and it was possibly stolen from here,

and the first public claims were made in the West. The West has never been slow in such unabashed usurpations

and brazen claims of originality. (One may also look into the feud between Newton and Leibnitz,

and how the international dispute was "solved" with Newton as the head of the committee for investigation.)

The RSS has a major share of Arya Samajist members and their ideas, and naturally so, for it was Dayananda Saraswati,

a great patriot and a great tapasvin, who was outspoken in his scholarly and vitriolic attacks

on Islam and Christianity as a pioneer - a trait not shared amongst a great many traditional Hindu scholars

then, and, for that matter, for scores of years thereafter too. 

The voluminous work called "Pride of India" has possibly ingested many Arya Samajist ideas,

and the book may need a drastic revision at the hands of genuine scholars - the likes

of Nityananda Misra - who may purge the work of extravagant/unsubstantiable claims.

One can understand that the pendulum has swung from one of an extreme inferiority complex

to a sudden gush of superiority complex, both mostly baseless. An objective approach

is what is called for. 

Dinned into the ears of the public - ad nauseum - has been the claim that NASA has declared 

that Sanskrit is the best/only natural language suitable for computers/programming. 

My master Sri HSVaradadesikacharya was the one who clearly stated that there is 

hardly semblance of the Vedic in the Vaimānika Śāstra (this is cited in the writings by HSMukunda et al.)

It may be recalled here that while giving the presidential remarks on a talk of Prof. Amba Kulkarni

on the scientific heritage of India, I had categorically recorded my appreciation that she consciously,

and cautiously, avoided any reference to  the Vaimānika Śāstra as well as Vedic Mathematics. 

In contrast to all this, ancient Hindus excelled in two domains - tough fields, verily,

where Westerners could hardly make even a nominal progress, and all in the preChristian era:

the two very difficult "soft sciences" namely the study of language and the study of mind.

Pāṇini and Patañjali flourished centuries before Christ, and both betray a long tradition

preceding them. 

Laplace was all praise for the Hindu numerical system, going even today 

by its misnomer as the Arabic numerals. The binary system originated with Piṅgala,

and so did, as corollaries, the Binomial Theorem, the Pascal's Triangle, and the Fibonacci numbers,

so called. None here blew their own trumpet for these discoveries, as was also the case with the so called

Pythagoras Theorem. Envy unlimited and hypocrisy unabashed - are the inerasable hallmarks of the West.

Ananda Coomaraswamy, a scholar colossus, has made plain that one can at once be 

an evolutionary scientist as well as a metaphysician with absolutely no conflict. 

It is unfortunate that the thought leaders of the Hare Krishna Movement 

are so opposed to the theory of evolution, and it is the same apprehension of the antinomy between 

science and Hindu spirituality that has driven even the otherwise sound scholars like Prof KSNarayanacharya

to take their stand against the said theory. The specious equation of the daśāvatāra-s with the evolutionary steps

actually began with the Theosophists.

We are still wallowing in our inferiority complex, as we cannot deem something as great

if Western scholars would not deign to accept it as such. We must admire in this context 

the efforts of Prof MDSrinivas, Prof KRamasubramanyam, and Prof MSriram, who have quietly 

worked hard and laid bare with ample proof the Hindu contribution to mathematics, 

such as cannot be gainsaid by the skeptical Westerners, academic or vulgar.

Ignorance of Sanskrit writ large in the talks/writings of Sri Sri Ravishankar and Sadhguru

can no wonder end up with making claims that do not redound to the credit of our heritage.

God save our precious heritage - from the hands of blind admirers!

Are we obliged to say:

paṇḍito hi varaṁ śatruḥ, 

na mūrkho hita-kārakaḥ?

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Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

Hon. Prof., Chanakya University, Bangalore.,

Emeritus Prof. and Director, Vishnugupta VishwaVidyapeetham, Gokarna.,

Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor (Retd.), IIT-Madras.

Member, Advisory Board, "Prof. A K Singh AURO Chair of Indic Studies", AURO University, Surat.
Member, Expert Committee for Review of Criticism of Indian Knowledge Traditions, Central Sanskrit University (under MoE, GoI), Ganganath Jha Campus, Prayagraj.
Adjunct Faculty, Dept of Heritage Science and Technology, IIT Hyderabad.

Nominated Member, Academic Committee, Kavi Kula Guru Kalidasa University, Ramtek.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

https://sites.google.com/view/kskannan

[Vichitra Thandava]

I am aware of what N Misra does. It is the credibility of his responses to these questions that gives room to pause. Especially the nuances. 

Commenting on scriptures isn't a matter of knowledge of Sankrit, which the Europeans also acquired. The scriptures carry the weight of experience and unfortunately not many cannot easily have it.

For the book Holy Science by Sri Yukteswar I shared as an example, the original was written in English in 1894.

But you know while everyone has the freedom of speech, what goes to impessionable minds carries a big burden of responsibilty for the posterity. 

I first became intrigued about it in the 1990s because translations by European authors did not gel with my own limited experience at that time. E.g. the correct translation of "Tyaga" from the B. Gita is not leave the results - it is "sacrifice" and the effort must be worthy of sacrifice. 

[लोकेश]

I really appreciate Dr. Nityanand Mirsa for that video and it really takes guts to make that video especially when you are speaking against someone's beliefs. The psuedoscience is a big problem in IKS circles. Scholars speak of siddhis, paras pathar(पारसपत्थर), healing snake bites using mantras or jhad phook and so on, and when they are asked to demonstrate it they run away or point to some video on youtube as their evidance or a line in scripture. They don't understand the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Recently Art of Living has started a program where they are teaching spoon bending to small kids. The kid looks at the spoon and it bends by the power of mind. One IKS scholar, I was talking with, supported it. I told him about this and he said it is possible. In fact not just him all the IKS scholars to whom I discusseded this saw nothing wrong with it. The psuedoscience seems to be increasing in modern India. If psuedoscience is not removed from Indian Knowledge Systems, it will become a joke.

[vishal jaiswal]

---

modern science is essentially superior to whatever had been

accomplished in ancient India. 

---

Practical yoga achieved perfection of the physical plane in sidestepping disease, old age and death itself, along with rejuvenation.

Modern science doesn't even have the tools to measure all this in the first place, forget about the understanding. 

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[K S Kannan]

Dear Sri Jaiswal,

You have either not correctly grasped, or just misrepresented what I have stated.

I said 

"...all this issues from a terrible inferiority complex,

in the clear perception that modern science is essentially superior to whatever had been

accomplished in ancient India."

What I just meant is:

"The inferiority complex has its basis on the [foolish] feeling that modern science is superior."

I am not asserting that modern science is superior. Quite the contrary, rather.

By referring to Pāṇini and Patañjali, I am referring to Vyākaraṇa and Yoga.

The world is yet to produce the like of the two giants. The study of language and of mind

have never been easy, and it is these two toughest problems that were tackled squarely in India.

What I have presented is by way of sthālī-pulāka-nyāya.

There are many other domains of knowledge that I have not touched upon

- Āyurveda, for example.

While grieving the plethora of misrepresentations,

I have not been oblivious to the very many accomplishments of the r̥ṣi-s.

We live in an age of self-styled Maharṣi-s and Mahātma-s.

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[Bijoy Misra]

Dear Vishalji,

This is too broad and is an unscientific statement.

Right conjecture is also science, conjecture comes from clear observations.

Rivers must have an origin, the universe must have an origin,  the origin has to be genderless,

all life is one - many like these are profound scientific observations.  It is true that people didn't

get into lens grinding, steam engine and power production.  I think it's more to do with the

inertia nature of the basic philosophy.  Aristotle put man (individual) at the center of the activity,

India chose man as a part of the activity.  Cosmologically the latter is more scientific.   

The question is if we treat a disease or heal a man!  Healing needs the universe and that's science.

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra    

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[Srinivas Rg]

With due reverence to all the senior Pandits in this august group, i wish to submit that Shri Nityananda Mishra has called into question the very idea of Apta Vakya Pramana, in the said podcast, in the time interval 1:29:23 to 1:29:40; the link to the exact time is here: https://youtu.be/ZDCWEbsSdfs?t=5365

Pranam,

- Srinivas

[लोकेश]

The idea or the scope of आप्तवाक्य has been challenged traditionally too. For example see महेश्वरानन्द's remark in महार्थमञ्जरी —

आगमस्तु

यद्याप्तमात्रवाक्यत्वात् प्रामाण्यमर्हति, तर्हि तस्याप्तिः कीदृगिति

चिन्तायामन्यस्मादाप्तात्, तस्याप्यन्यस्मादिति

मूलक्षयकारिण्यनवस्थेत्यप्रामाण्यमेव | माणिक्यादिपरीक्षावत्

त्रिचतुरकक्ष्याविश्रान्तौ तु सैव सङ्कोचाय कल्पते | 

Translation: But if the Āgama (Scripture) deserves validity (प्रामाण्य) merely because it is the statement of a trustworthy person (आप्तवाक्य) then, upon inquiring, "What is the nature of his trustworthiness?", [if the answer is] "From another trustworthy person," and his [trustworthiness is derived] from yet another—this leads to an infinite regress (अनवस्था) that destroys the very root [of the argument] (मूलक्षयकारिणी). Thus, it results in absolute invalidity of Āgama...

I think we cannot reject आप्तवाक्य altogether because we use it in our day to day life, however we must limit its scope. When the subject matter is extraordinary then आप्तवाक्य is useless in my opinion. Like they say in modern times — extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. Merely - 'trust me I saw this in samadhi', isn't enough.

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[Abhishek Mehta]

Can you give any source which considers apta vakya as pramana? There are only four pramanas stated in Hindu texts - pratyaksha, shabda, anumaana, upamaa. May I know in which of the above four apta vakya maybe considered?

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[लोकेश]

In शब्दप्रमाण. See आप्तोपदेशः शब्दः (न्यायसूत्र १.१.७), किम्पुनस्तत् त्रिविधं प्रमाणमिति? उच्यते दृष्टमनुमानमाप्तवचनं च। (युक्तिदीपिका) 

आगमः also comes under शब्दप्रमाण / आप्तवचनम् - प्रत्यक्षानुमानागमाः प्रमाणानि ॥ ७ ॥(योगसूत्र)

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[Abhishek Mehta]

So it means aaptavachanam can be anything, they can be shabda as a quotation or the other three depending on the nature of the vachanam. This means an aaptavachanam needs to be examined first to see which pramana classification it follows. This only proves that all statements must undergo scrutiny irrespective who says it.

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[Nityanand Misra]

On Tuesday, 16 June 2026 at 9:35:34 am UTC+5:30 Srinivas Rg wrote:

With due reverence to all the senior Pandits in this august group, i wish to submit that Shri Nityananda Mishra has called into question the very idea of Apta Vakya Pramana, in the said podcast, in the time interval 1:29:23 to 1:29:40; the link to the exact time is here: https://youtu.be/ZDCWEbsSdfs?t=5365

Pranam,

- Srinivas

Namaskāra

Please see the statement in its context. The context is this: Shri Jaggi Vasudev, also known as Sadhguru, claims that Ādiyogī expounded the theory of evolution 15,000 years before Charles Darwin. He offers no proof of the claim. I do not need to add that no proof exists. If such a claim in relation to Science is made without any evidence other than the claimant saying that this was revealed to them in a state of samādhi, it is pseudoscience in my opinion. It is also a misappropriation of a Western theory by claiming it came from India, specifically from the tradition Shri Jaggi Vasudev claims to represent.

So, I have not made a general statement against the principle of “āptavacanaṃ pramāṇam”, but a specific statement in the context of scientific claims. Think about Dayānanda Sarasvatī (founder of the Ārya Samāja) claiming descriptions of the steam engine, wired electricity, and telegraphy in the Ṛgveda. For such scientific claims, with zero evidence, can ‘āptavacana’ be treated as evidence?

Thanks, Nityānanda Miśra

 

[Srinivas Rg]

Respected Pundits,

Feel totally free to ignore what i am saying here. But i have to say this: the torch bearers of the spiritual knowledge in India lost sight of the critically important part of spiritual practice, which Sadhguru calls by the name "tantra" and which Swami Vivekananda called by the name "Raja Yoga". There may be more to this nomenclature but you get the idea. 

I will give a sample: Today, you can go and check, when Upanayana is conducted, the Purohita says to the vatu, while teaching Pranayama, "hold your nose with little fingure and thumb and say ॐ प्रणवस्य परब्रह्मऋषी: परमात्मा देवता गायत्री ....". That is the beginning and end of the teaching of Pranayama, the critically important part of tantra aspect of spiritual practice, for beginners, at least. 

So, when the whole huge "august" group of people lost sight of the direction they should give to their own children, Sadhguru came to help. He revived the tantra aspect of spiritual practice in a huge way and opened the gates of tantra wide and for all, and lifted any number of कलिमलग्रसित जीव s like me, when the entitled Pandits watched everything that is happenning in the society and helped very little. Being a sixty year old brahmana, who lived most of his life among the brahmanas of Bengaluru and Chamaraja Pete,  I should know!

And today, all you have is criticism for Sadhguru! 

Namaskara
Srinivasa

[Ananda Maitreya]

We should welcome internal critique and critical views on "our" traditions etc. If someone is honest in trying to debunk some extravagant claims, we can review those efforts, as of Nityanand's, with some understanding.

What is scientific and pseudo-scientific etc is also important to define, clarify etc. There is enough literature on these areas, so once there is some agreement on the definitions of the domain, then misunderstandings can be reduced.

What Dr. Misra mentions earlier, about the sense of "speculative intuition" in the Rg Veda, is very insightful. And that is a spirit, in terms of exhaustiveness and non-compromising research/argumentation, found in  Indian intellectual pursuits (darshana-s?) that can be celebrated. That may well be scientific. Not just the well-known logico-epistemological tradition of the Nyāya and the Buddhists. But a thoroughness of shastric endeavor, the drive to explain and expound with endless commentaries, sub-commentaries, points to a tradition that had the ability to engage in detail with almost any topic under the sun. But certainly, with areas crucial to human flourishing, to human knowledge, to human "upliftment,"  as Dr. Kannan observes.

Just reading a small passage of the Mimāmsakas, the Advaitins, the Nayāyikas, the Buddhists, the Jains etc is "mind-blowing" to put it in modern terms, in terms of the economy and the rigor of the text. But, if in addition we find some fantastic claims of head-replacement surgery etc which seem a little over-the-top, then a crtical take is welcome.

With that view, Nityanand's attempts to engage with some seemingly unfounded claims made in the name of tradition are commendable. Someone has to step in. One can only look to Vivekananda and see his sparse, no-nonsense style in dealing with profound matters. Even Shankara's views on "shushka-tarka" (dry logic) etc are remarkable. Let's take a cue from the vast intellectual endeavors of those savants that went before us and who did not shy away from an opponent's blistering probings - 

Ananda

[K S Kannan]

It is not that entitling statements  as āpta-vacana/āgama was an easy escape-route from critical examination.

What would qualify as āgama? Rigorous tests were indeed applied:

तत्र आप्तागमः तावद् वेदः।, of course; 

but yet, other statements could qualify too as āgama,

provided they passed the four tests: 

यश्चान्योऽपि कश्चित्
(a) वेदार्थाद् अविपरीतः
(b) परीक्षकैः प्रणीतः
(c) शिष्टानुमतः and 
(d) लोकानुग्रह-प्रवृत्तः शास्त्रवादः,
स चाप्तागमः।

The roles not only of yukti, but also of anumāna and arthāpatti 

cannot be ignored, as Ayurvedic texts say.

 upapatti and yukti have their roles too. 

युज्यते = युक्तियुक्तं भवति।
उपपन्नम् = उपपत्तिमद् भवति।

What is the standard?:

युक्तियुक्तं वचो ग्राह्यं बालादपि शुकादपि !।
युक्त्ययुक्तं वचोऽग्राह्यं वृद्धादपि शुकादपि !!॥

If the modern guru-s agree to lay bare the logical foundations of what they claim,

who would disagree with them? Difficulties arise when claims are made,

but evidence is not forthcoming.

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[Srinivas Rg]

Respected Pandits,
I have this submission to make. You see, my whole life has been a tantalizing game of touch and go with that sweet thing inside me, it has been a sequence of immense agony and peak ecstasy with some doldrums phases in between. So, it is my search for ecstasy and my need to avoid agony and doldrums, that is my raison d'etre, my reason to live and that is also, primarily, the reason for this mail.

In the course of my search, i found plenty of help for practicing both path of Bhakti and the path of Viveka chudamani. But, being a completely कलिमलग्रसित जीव, I was forced to find more help. That is when I discovered Sadhguru and even more importantly, His tantra approach to practice. Benefits have been profound.

Other than the health benefits, this tantra vidya definitely helps in approaching that sweet thing inside.

The question I asked you in my earlier mail was simple and direct. Was it not the job of Pandits and Guru-s and Mathadisha-s and the text book writers to give me this education? Was not my own upanayana supposed to help me with this? Dear Bharatiya Vidvat Parishat, be informed, that tantra vidya, which must have flourished at one time in our country, is now as good as obliterated. (see appendix)

Am I alone in this struggle? In this struggle to touch that thing which is inside me? Are the people in my locality not struggling? Are the people in India not struggling? Is it not true that the only reason for sorrow of a person is that person is not able to touch that thing inside him?

If you are indeed "uttardayi-s" to our ancient rishis, which you claim to be, do something about this. And if somebody else like Sadhguru is doing this, please do not downplay his effort.

Tell me something, say somebody believes that shiva was indeed there fifteen thousand years ago and he has therefore been misled by Sadhguru and that same somebody also learns and practices the tantra vidya as taught by Sadhguru, will such a person stand to gain or lose, overall?

You are ignoring the reasons to credit Sadhguru who is doing a job you should have done, and on top of that, you are highlighting the reasons to discredit him!

Our heritage is the knowledge of how to reach that sweet thing inside. Do reach there and then do spread the knowledge of how you did it. Nobody can stop you.

I know and experience what i am talking, but I can not prove to you that I have some experience of that sweet thing inside me. But why should you be concerned about my experience or Sadhguru's experience? What is stopping you from getting your own experience? Point is, if you had any experience of that which is inside, your understanding of those topics which Shri Nityanand Mishra has mentioned in that podcast would be entirely different.

In conclusion, I wish this may happen: सह नाववतु । सह नौ भुनक्तु ।सह वीर्यं करवावहै । तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ।  This depends on whether you are willing to make it happen or not. But I got plan B, माऽहं ब्रह्म निराकुर्यां मा मा ब्रह्म निराकरोदनिराकरणमस्त्वनिराकरणं मेऽस्तु । and this has worked before and this is guaranteed to work again.

I have spoken enough. Now is my time for silence. Permanent silence.

Namaskara
Srinivasa


Appendix
The list of people/institutions who are spreading tantra vidya whom i came across in my life:
1) Ramakrishna Mission, Gandhi Bazar
2) Shri Nagendra, who used to teach us yogasanas in chamaraja pete 4th main, i understand it is the same mahodaya who has created Prashanti Kutira and S-VYASA
3) Shivananda School of Yoga, Hrishikesh
4) Shri Vasanth Lad (whose videos are in youtube)
5) Shri Jijnasu Vasudeva (whose videos are also available in youtube)
6) Shri Sadhguru

[Rajaram Krishnamurthy]

As a novice it made an interesting reading. IF I WERE TO SAY 1 LET IT BE; EACH HAS A VIEW; LOKO BINNA RUCHI 2 WHY SHOULD IT BE CALLED AS "PSEUDO-SCIENCE PEDDLER"AT ALL?  SAME VIVEKANANDA ALSO SAID THOSE WELL EDUCATED ALONE MISINTERPRET AND PRESENT THEIR KNOW-HOW IN A BAD SHAPE. MAY BE THAT IS THE REASON WHY ,UNLIKE OTHER NATIONS, WE NEVER RAISE TO THE OCCASIONS, WHERE OUR CULT IS BEING INSULTED.  WHAT EXACTLY IS THE REAL SCIENCE? IN E=Mc2 ,M IS STILL AN UNRESOLVED ALPHABET BUT ALL READ IN THEIR TEXT WHILE A SMALL SECTOR IS OPPOSING EINSTEIN. SO PEOPLE WHO DO NOT GIVE UP THEIR SKINS EVEN IF "ONE-SHORT" CALLING IT AS SCIENCE, IS NOT A ps pEDDLERS; BUT ONE WHO COPIED THEIR TEXT AND WROTE FOR MONEY FROM iNDIA ARE. OR DOES WRITERS OF THESE COLUMNS PRAISE SUCH?  TRUTH IS ONE WHICH IS PERMANENT. WITH Q E D ONE TRIES HIS UNDERSTANDING. WITHOUT Q E D TRUTH WILL NOT CHANGE TO UNTRUTH!. WHERE SUN RISES FROM THE EAST IS TRUTH ,IT NEED NOT BE PROVED MATHEMATICALLY, SINCE ALL MATHEMATICAL PROFS ARE MODIFIED LATER, MAKING THE MATHEMATICS AS JUST A TOOL.  WHERE AI IS A TRUTH , AND WHERE A WRONG FACT WAS/IS STATED,   AI IS NOT WRONG, BUT ONE WHO WROTE SUCH AND ONE WHO FED IT FAITHFULLY. THERE ARE MANY NITHYANANDA MISRAS; WHAT ABOUT HIS SCIENCE?; PSEUDO? OR OTHERWISE?; WHAT HE DID PROVE THAT THOSE WHO SPOKE ON FACTS FROM VEDAS, AS KNOWN ALREADY, WERE NOT THE SCIENTISTS BUT MANTRA RECITERS ONLY? AND AFTER ALL WHY PSEUDO-GURUS OR SCHOLARS PSEUDO LIKE MISRAS SHALL BE LISTENED TO? JUST FOR LIKES AND SHARING?   IF YOU CAN RESPECT YOUR PARENT PLEASE DO OR ELSE AVOID MAKING PSEUDO RESPECT FOR PARENTS AND ANCIENT TEXTS. TRUTH SHALL STAY FOR EVER AND WILL NOT DISAPPEAR BECAUSE MISR SAID IT K RAJARAM IRS 1726

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[BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)]

Namaste

 

1.The search for  path, techniques, guidance < maarga, tantra, maarga-darshana>  becomes meaningful only when < sought after benefits  = phala –upa-bhoga> have been experientially validated by a check-list of lists < आप्तागमः> .  This list cover concurrence and co-located  communion of   experience and <anubhava-pramana>  knowledge – teaching transfer <Jnana-pranama> and  Science-practical application <Vijnana-pramana>.

 

2. Sri Nityananda Misra is clearly pointing to the discordance and breaks of this integrity in current society, where ‘Samskruth terms –sentences and expressions < like ‘xyz’ are used in a ‘free for all’ –        ‘say- speak – make –break – interpret – connect it the way you like a room decoration’- use as you like it’ mode. So the question is what is  the meaning- intent- benefit of Samskruth term-unit <xyz> ?

 

3.  Giving values to what xyz- stand for and how to construct them is regulated in Samskruth language tradition; and is deeply linked to ‘ specific benefit’.  As a seeker –practitioner, you pick the path right for you, the personalized instruction and practice: The <anu-shaasanam>.

Here again < Panini- Samskrutham –die-hards> have a strong opinion on < what is right > and < what is the only right thing to the exclusion of other models>.  Nityananda misra is bringing together two understandings together; leaving the rest of the team to define ‘ What constitutes the < right and Only-right> way of < Samskruth term meanings and usage>.

Rest is left to your choice.

 

4.  For example:   To teach < शिवाय > as one single processed unit or split it as  < शिव / सिव + अय / आय > or give multiple meaning associations to the basic units and processes> is a custom choice for teacher in context.  But to tag –brag- claim that it is the < only way of tradition and  <only-right way> of tradition>  is debatable. Tirumoolar presentation may not be the same as views in shiva purana.

 

The same units ( like x=c, y=a , z= t >  can yield by different for <xyz> depending upon your construct and split. Interpretation genius abounds in the schools pointed by you as references.

 

5. Summary: Let us appreciate Nityananda Misra’s work and move on from where it is leading us.

Wishing away Nityananda does not take out the reality of clinkers in ‘Sanskritized Panini’ teaching.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[MoT IoT]

Namste to all !!!

Guess it is not too late to scribe this response.

About 43 years ago, I had the opportunity to serve as a Shruti Box accompanist for a renowned Gamaki who presented discourses on Gadugina Bharata to select audiences in Bengaluru. During one such discourse, the Gamaki narrated an episode where Arjuna encounters an Ashareera Vaani (a disembodied voice). As someone deeply interested in science, I found myself wondering how such an event could be explained. I speculated that it might have been Arjuna's intuition, a psychological phenomenon, or perhaps a heightened sixth sense. Like many others, I dismissed it as a mythical element of the epic.

About 25 years ago, while travelling to Madurai with my first mobile phone, an interesting thought suddenly occurred to me just before I reached my destination. I recalled that very episode of GAMAKI and realized that what was once described as an "Ashareera Vaani" has been realized by some one - possibility of hearing a voice without the physical presence of the human speaker. 

43 years back, if some one would have guided us to think pragmatically to look at possibility, we would had more innovations today.  

Unfortunately, even today we are teaching our Scriptures as Mythology / Old way of understanding things, to next generations. 

This experience reinforced an important lesson for me - Perhaps we should be cautious and restrain from throwing away / dismissing every seemingly impossible events (as on date), described in our ancient scriptures as mere mythology. If we approach such descriptions with an pragmatic and yet scientific mindset, they would  trigger / initiate / inspire fresh questions, stimulate research, and even lead to new discoveries / future technological innovations.

Incidentally, some with "I know All" attitude, breach limits and dismiss others !!! 

C-Section surgery, Ganesha scribing Mahabharata, Trishanku loka, Samudrollanghana.... list goes on....

DhanyavaadaH

Ma Cham HARI PRAKASH

( Request to apply Hamsa-Ksheera Nyaya)

[Prabhat Mishra]

Dear Esteemed Members of the Bharatiya Vidvat Parishat,

Warm greetings.

My name is Prabhat Ranjan Mishra. I am originally from Kanpur and for the past two decades I have been serving as a director in a technical enterprise in England. My work concerns environmental management, resource conservation, and sustainable industrial processes.

This December 2026, I am scheduled to deliver a 30‑minute address in Brussels at an international forum of the nonwoven and technical textiles industry. I intend to voluntarily devote approximately five minutes of this talk to India’s ancient scientific perspectives on sustainability and ecological balance. My research paper is due for submission in October.

I write with a humble request. If any distinguished member could kindly suggest authoritative references from ancient Indian texts—Devanagari, Sanskrit, or other Indian languages—that illuminate themes such as sustainability, environmental protection, balance of the five elements, harmonious coexistence with all living and non‑living aspects of nature, and long‑term ecological equilibrium, I would be deeply grateful. The presentation will be entirely apolitical, non‑religious, and free from any commercial interest.

If helpful, I can also share a two‑year‑old presentation in which I briefly mentioned the concept of pañcatattva‑santulan, which I now hope to present in a more scientific and well‑referenced manner.

Any guidance you may kindly offer will not only enrich my address but also help present the depth of India’s knowledge traditions with dignity and humility to global industry leaders and policymakers.

With sincere thanks,

Prabhat Ranjan Mishra

[Prabhat Mishra]

Namaste Subrahmanian‑ji,

Thank you very much for your thoughtful and encouraging message. I am truly grateful that you took the time to share this lead about the recent Sanskrit seminar. Your note is extremely helpful, and I appreciate your kindness in pointing me toward a potentially rich source of references.

To further help me locate the exact event you mentioned, may I request a few additional details from your recollection? Even approximate information will be very valuable. For example:

• Any keywords or themes repeatedly mentioned during the seminar
• A rough idea of when it was held (month or year)
• Whether it was organised by Madras Sanskrit College or another institution
• Names of any other speakers or panel members you may recall
• Whether the YouTube stream was on a specific channel (e.g., Madras Sanskrit College, Samskrita Bharati, or another scholarly body)

With even a few of these clues, I should be able to trace the recording more efficiently.

Thank you once again for your guidance and goodwill. I remain sincerely appreciative.

Warm regards,

Prabhat Ranjan Mishra

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 at 18:21, V Subrahmanian <v.subra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste

Very recently I watched a seminar on this topic held in Sanskrit at....... Dr. Srinivas Varakhedi attended online while all other scholars were in person.  Sarvashri Mani Dravid Sastriji, andK.E.Devanathan spoke at the end, summarizing. The other members presented papers.  It was very interesting.  Many references were cited.  I don't remember the venue but it was aired on YouTube.  If you can locate it, it would be helpful to you. Some or one of the scholars was from the Madras Sanskrit College, Chennai. 

Best wishes,

subrahmanian.v 

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[Abhishek Mehta]

Based on what I have read personally the concepts that come closest to what you are looking for is Kshama and Aanrinyam, two attributes that lead to a sustainability and ecological balance. 

Aanrinyam refers to the state of being free from rinas which are of five kinds - Bhuta, Manushya, Rishi, Pitra and Deva. The idea is that we owe five kinds of debts to the animals, to our species, to our teachers, to our ancestors and to our gods. And we need to live our life in a way that repays these debts to them. There are many ways you can repay these debts but the key modes are

Bhuta - Donation

Manushya - Compassion

Rishi - Teaching 

Pitra - Reproduction 

Deva - Worship

Kshama is considered a mode that can repay all the above debts and also help others achieve Aanrinyam. Once the debts are paid the worlds becomes balanced and the soul obtains liberation. If this is something you believe that is relevant to your paper or presentation do let me know i will try to go back and find the relevant verses again.

--

[V Subrahmanian]

Namaste

Here is the link to the video on the topic of sustainability in the context of the Four Purusharthas: 

Sastrartha Sabha Bharatiya Vigyan Sammelan 2025 || National Sanskrit University,Tirupati

https://www.youtube.com/live/SOaPwa8uDKY

By oversight I mentioned that Sri Srinivas Varakhedi had joined this event online.  

Warm regards

subrahmanian.v 

[Prabhat Mishra]

Dear Mr Mehta,

My apologies for not acknowledging your message sooner.

You have articulated an important and often neglected dimension of this subject—one that is easily missed in the rush and restlessness with which industry trends tend to develop. Your reflections are excellent, and I shall try to present them in a manner that resonates with the conference theme while also carrying their relevance into wider aspects of life and work. Encouraging ecological balance and sustainable habits is essential, both for industry and for individuals.

Thank you very much for your help. I will adapt your suggestion to the topic I must address and will gratefully acknowledge your contribution.

Warm regards,

Prabhat Mishra

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[Prabhat Mishra]

Dear Mr Subrahmanian,

Thank you very much for your generous help and for taking the time to advise me. Your reference is highly useful, and I shall integrate both its key insights and the original citations into my presentation.

I will also record my sincere appreciation for your support, as I will for all assistance extended to me by the members of this esteemed group.

Kind regards,

Prabhat Mishra

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAKk0Te2fiiUVp_-MGvxPc_ZZ-ew36_dnfpGaGzC-AjMn_4Xdwg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nagaraj Paturi]

My talk on how Dharma  by etymology  and by definition a sustainability idea. 

Dharma as Essentially an Environmentalist Concept by Nagaraj Paturi

https://youtu.be/MA911I9X0os?list=PLplXz64H2WtGtmPiusQySL2yDv606WdcQ

Full playlist of the conference curated by me. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCMKXxpHmk4&list=PLplXz64H2WtGtmPiusQySL2yDv606WdcQ

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAN-XwyObB1JjQ69Lz4a06n_UVqG3PCNgyLxWwBujTdYscNjTTQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--

Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad, Telangana-500044

 

 

 

[MoT IoT]

Interesting conversation Subrahmanian Ji.

Namaste to ALL !!

Most of the global giant Organizations (like GE, Rolls Royce..) incorporate SDG goals of UN to draft their Policies and Procedures, mainly for Compliance and global acceptance of their products n services. Many Countries Public policies are also driven by these SDG's for various collaborative, financial, political and power sharing reasons.

There is a need to understand the SDG's in broader and operational perspectives, before considering them as Sacrosanct. Every country tweak these SDG's appropriate to the aspirations of their people and Government. Hence any discussions based on SDGs have multiple persepctives, beyond mere Environment Sustainability.

Similar conversation happened at RKMVERI, Howrah, Kolkatta, in Decemeber 2024. In the 2 day National Seminar on Environment and Disaster Management, some pointers were presented on VEDIC-VEDANTIC approach to Environment Sustainability. I had participated in the event in person and made some observations.

When I compile the discussion points in 2024 Kolkatta seminar and the Tirupati discussions in the Link, it seems we are carried away with western definition of Sustainability.

Each of the 17 SDGs have clearly dealt in our huge corpus of knowledge sources aka Scriptures, 18 Vidya Sthanas, which is termed as DHARMA of the SOCIETY, both at Individual layer (Vyashti) and Societal layer (Samashti).

Incidentally, our approach to Scriptures is always at VYASHTI layer, which leads to ultimate Purushartha - MOKSHA. But this is orthogonal to the SOCIETAL sustenance, as per MODERN WORLD definition. It becomes necessary for us change our lenses, before we explore SUSTAINABILITY in the language of UN.

To cut the clutter, best way forward is to follow VEDIC LIFE STYLE, to achieve SUSTAINANCE both at VYASHTI and SAMSHTI layers, instead of convincing WESTERN AUDIENCE on richness of SUSTAINABILITY concepts in our Scriptures.

Some questions : 

1. Shanno Bhava Dwipade Sham Chatushpade - शं नो भव द्विपदे शं चतुष्पदे ॥ - is not the ultimate SUSTAINABLE Goal at SAMASHTI layer?

2. Sharma Varma Chardirasmabhyam yamsatu - शर्म॒ वर्म॑ च्छ॒र्दिर॒स्मभ्यं᳚ यंसत् - is not the ultimate SUSTAINABLE Goal at VYASHTI layer?  

DhanyavaadaH !!

Maa Cham HARI PRAKASH

( Request to apply Hamsa-Ksheera Nyaya)

[vishal jaiswal]

It's very difficult if not impossible for most westerners to let go of materialism. That's why sustainability as a side effect of progress towards moksha is quite foreign in that framework.

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[Srinivas Rg]

Respected Pandits,
In the context of this opinion, please find my reply.

" Ignorance of Sanskrit writ large in the talks/writings of Sri Sri Ravishankar and Sadhguru

can no wonder end up with making claims that do not redound to the credit of our heritage."

वाग्वैखरी शब्दझरी शास्त्रव्याख्यानकौशलम्। वैदुष्यं विदुषां तद्वद्भुक्तये न तु मुक्तये॥

अविज्ञाते परे तत्त्वे शास्त्राधीतिस्तु निष्फला ।

विज्ञातेऽपि परे तत्त्वे शास्त्राधीतिस्तु निष्फला ॥

ಸಾಮಾನ್ಯ ರೂಪದಲಿ, ಸಂಸಾರಿವೇಷದಲಿ । 

ಸ್ವಾಮಿ ನಿನ್ನೆಡೆಗೆ ಬರಬಹುದು ವರ ನೀಡಿ ॥ 

ಮೈಮೆ ಕಾಂಬೊಡೆ ನಿನಗೆ ಸಂಸ್ಕಾರವಿರಬೇಕು । 

ತಾಮಸಿಗೆ ವರವೆಲ್ಲಿ? - ಮಂಕುತಿಮ್ಮ 

उष्ट्राणां विवाहेषु , गीतं गायन्ति गर्दभाः ।

परस्परं प्रशंसन्ति अहो रूपं अहो ध्वनिः ll

Respectfully Yours,

Srinivasa.

On Saturday, 30 May 2026 at 11:56:40 pm UTC+5:30 Bijoy Misra wrote:

Dear friends,,

I just encountered the long interview of Dr Nityananda Misra on various

uncultivated statements coming from India.  Being abroad from my young 

days I had noticed these with various "guru"s  who visit overseas in search

of disciples and funding.  The superficial and unnecessary statements 

help reinforce the old profile of India made by the Jesuits that the Indian

knowledge system advocates myth and magic.  It has taken quite a bit 

of effort abroad to establish that the Indian knowledge system was built with 

human industry and analytic inquiry.  Lately the children and professionals 

are exhibiting the analytic potential of Indian origin.  Dr Nityananda through

his scholarship has tried to counter many of the hyperboles promoted 

through politics and camouflage.   I thank the videomaker (interviewer)

for his query and preparation.

Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCWEbsSdfs

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

Dear Dr Bijoy Misra

I do not hold a PhD or a medical degree, so I request that you please omit the prefix “Dr.” before my name.

Thank you for bringing this podcast on pseudoscience and pseudoscientific claims made in the name of Hinduism to everyone’s attention. My position is that such pseudoscientific claims—made from time to time by Ācāryas, Gurus, writers, and political leaders—overshadow the genuine mathematical and scientific heritage of our great civilisation. This is why these claims need to be critiqued.

I welcome comments and criticism from members of the list. Due to a lack of time, however, I may not be able to respond to every point raised. I might comment occasionally to address specific points.

The podcast (in Hindi) is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCWEbsSdfs

Thanks, Nityānanda Miśra

 

 

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[K S Kannan]

Dear Srinivas,

Your words of appreciation regarding Sri Sadguru (&/or Sri Sri Ravishankarji)

carry conviction, and I have nothing to dispute here. 

India has given birth to many saintly figures all along, and even these may very well be great teachers fulfilling a divine mission.

These two personages have contributed a great deal to the sacred legacy we are all heir to,

and have inspired many, especially the youth, and opened their eyes to the great values of our heritage.

This is a formidable task, and their success has also been extraordinary. That the two persons have been 

invited even in academic circles here and abroad shows the wide reach and impact of the noble work they are doing.

Who would not appreciate these great achievements?

My dissatisfaction was only wrt one small thing:

India has expressed the great and grand truths of life through millennia through Sanskrit.

One can also do great service to our heritage by not undermining Sanskrit, 

by not misrepresenting what is expressed in Sanskrit. 

It is not that a knowledge of Sanskrit is a primary qualification for experiencing spiritual truths; 

for that matter, no language is. You have yourself aptly cited the expression "mūkāsvādanavat" 

from Nārada-bhakti-sūtra. But then, that does not mean that one has to underrate/misrepresent 

the good and the great role of Sanskrit, or what is expressed in it. 

Is it not best to speak of what we know best, and rather not err even in small details 

wrt things we are not well-versed in - and in particular, wrt our own sacred language?  

(DVG, whom you quote befittingly,  was a good example of this, yet seldom pedantic.) 

For, such errors may, not impossibly, make some people come to doubt the knowledge and authenticity of 

the speaker, and thereby close their minds wrt some really great ideas emanating from the speaker.

Won't you consider that unfortunate? 

Sanskrit has been the undisputed voice of our heritage. Great service can be rendered 

to our heritage without undermining that role, too. And while speaking in public, it is also 

best to ensure that what we are speaking does not contain factual errors, even small ones. (And if some errors 

have indeed occurred perchance, in spite of our carefulness, it is best to announce the corrections 

in some near future.) My concern was about just this, nothing else. Would you appreciate a great book

well printed but not proof-read well?

All said, it would be excellent if you can bring out the excellences of these masters,

as experienced by you, on this very platform - so that more people can benefit from them,

and come to experience the exalted happiness you seem to have yourself experienced. 

(Rather than merely point to the numerous You-tubes and the abundant literature about

their teachings, you would do well to bring out succinctly the merits of their teachings 

and practices as experienced by you in particular. That can perhaps help/inspire many).

I do not think BVP will block such well-intentioned attempts. Parasparam bhāvayantaḥ 

can also be extended to our own interactions where we point out each other's (merits and) demerits

for mutual enlightenment and enhancement. BVP is an excellent platform for this, 

though some may cross their limits now and then, knowingly or unknowingly.

After all, who can gainsay the merit of the maxim:

śatror api guṇā vācyā, doṣā vācyā guror api ?

And please do point out if I have erred in facts, or their expressions, 

or in my approach in general.

KSKannan

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[Ramesh Rao]

Thank you for your eloquent response, Dr. Kannan.

I have met both Sri Jaggi Vasudev and Sri Sri Ravishankar. Both men have built empires of wellness and spiritual quests and should be lauded for bringing solace to many who seek shelter in this world of challenges and heartbreaks.

I have taught at a J Krishnamurti school and had the opportunity to sit with him and my colleagues to discuss matters big and small about the school, education, our quests, etc.

However, we should not conflate the abilities of these men with expert knowledge in fields they are not trained in. 

I had a good friend, trained in yoga, a student of Swami Rama, who used to argue that the priests in temples have no knowledge of or experience in yoga while describing some of the esoteric states he had entered while meditating. I used to ask him about how much time he had spent learning the agama shastras. Why compare? 

With regards,

Ramesh Rao

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[MoT IoT]

Interesting conversation.

It will be injustice to ourselves if we look at Scriptures as either too regressive or too futuristic. 

Issue seems to be the perspective through which one takes to study Scriptures. Searching for modern technological advancements in Scriptures would be  Ativyaapti. Looking for the fundamental principles would be appropriate, through which all Technical innovation sprouts. 

Quick example : 

in Indic Scripture Corpus, there are at least 5 references, similar to puranic Ganesha's birth event. Understanding them - AS IT HAPPENED,  might be in-appropriate. Same time excluding them as IMAGINARY will also lead to selective bias, as most think through the western learning methodologies.

DhanyavaadaH !!

Hari Prakash

On Wednesday, June 17, 2026 at 7:16:49 AM UTC+5:30 Nityanand Misra wrote:

[Bijoy Misra]

Dear friends,

I had written about this before.

I request all participants to treat this forum as a professional group than

a casual social group.  Please use real names in identification as a 

respect to the group.

Best regards,

Bijoy Misra

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[Aravinda Rao]

Namaskars, 

I am not a regular participant in the group but I do watch some discussions. I watched the rather lengthy video of Sri Mishra till the end. My first reaction is instant admiration for him. Though I am from a totally different field, I have been a teacher of Vedanta texts (the Gita, the Upanishads, Ramayana Yoga sutras etc.,) for the last 14 years on the advaita academy website, having done a Ph. D in Sanskrit, with the upanishads as my topic for research. It is embarrassing to listen to some of the wild claims made by mostly traditional scholars who are not trained in science but who make such claims. Unfortunately, some scholars learned in Sanskrit and science do also make such comments. Against this background, I really welcome the video of Sri Mishra, I wish the video were made in English and dubbed into regional languages like Telugu so more scholars would be careful not to superimpose modern science on scriptural texts. 

It also should remind us of the stupendous task of the scholars who are revising our textbooks under the new NEP scheme. Several scholars such as Sri Mishra, Prof. Kannan, Prof. Ramasubrahmaniyan of IITB,  Sri Paturi (as I see in this group) have to be consultants for such the tricky task undertaken by the government. अपृष्टोऽपि हितं ब्रूयात् यस्य नेच्छेत् पराजयम्।

Sri Mishra, however, made some comments about the jingoistic scholars conflating dharma (religion) and vignan (science).But we have to identify and talk about some of the finest aspects of our dharma. While the powerful world religions are based on a mere belief in a skygod, heaven, hell and a mandate for divine imperialism, the sanatana dharma is based on the philosophical ideas of the upanishads which investigate into the nature of Reality and posits it as satyam, jnanam, anantam brahma - the highest reality is of the nature of infinitely existing consciousness. It is an impersonal entity.There are debates in our shastras and interpretations about how this consciousness manifests as the universe and thus different traditions sprang up. The Vedic literature has itself given different forms like Vishnu, Shiva, Shakti, etc., each of which can be worshipped as the Supreme Reality. Several traditions could be harmonised only because of the fact that the upanishadic thought became the basis for all of them.The Upanishads talked at two levels, the absolute level for a seeker and an empirical level for a devotee or lay person.

There was some discussion on the theory of evolution in the video. We can see ideas very close to creation in the Taittiriya Upanishad (2-1) which says that the first manifestation from the Supreme Atman was the space. From space, air emerged and from air, fire emerged. Fire gave rise to fluid substances, water and water, in course of time became earth. The plant kingdom emerged first and such a plant kingdom became the food for animals which emerged in the end. ओषधीभ्योऽन्नम् अन्नात् पुरुषः. The British scholars knew all our old books and it is possible that Darwin could also have got an insight from this and fortified it by field research.  

Another point which could have been mentioned by Sri Mishra is the vast timelines in Hindu thought. We have a cyclical concept of time whereas till recently the west was talking about a linear concept, fixing the year of creation as 4004 BCE. Comments of astronomers such as Carl Sagan about the Indian concept of time are well known. 

Indian society was probably guided by an elite  in two levels; those who were philosophers, mathematicians, astronomers etc., and others who were mere custodians of religious practices. Scholars at the first level produced our shastras, and unified the society under the umbrella of the upanishadic thought. The custodians of religion who belonged to the second category might have objected to some scientific ideas of Aryabhaatta, mentioned by Sri Mishra in his solitary example of such opposition to scientific ideas.

At some places in the video, the listener gets a feeling that the speaker and the interviewer were enjoying the process of trouncing their opponents. 

Aravinda Rao

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[Srinivas Rg]

Dear Teachers and Scholars,
Firstly, with humility, I bow down to all of you.
I shall most happily share what I have learnt from Sadhguru Mahaprabhu. That takes a bit of effort in editing  and proof reading. Indeed, I have already made a mental draft.
 
Humble Namaskaara to all of you.
Srinivasa 

[Srinivas Rg]

I shall post the english translation of this mail a little later. but I do wish to post the kannada version without much delay. 
ಪೂಜ್ಯ ಕಣ್ಣನ್ ಗುರುಗಳ ಪಾದಾರವಿಂದಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಸಾಷ್ಟಾಂಗ ಪ್ರಣಾಮ ಮಾಡುತ್ತಾ ತಿಳಿಸಬೇಕಾದ ವಿಷಯ ಒಂದು ಇದೆ. ನಾನು ನ್ಯಾಷನಲ್ ಕಾಲೇಜಿನಲ್ಲೇ ಪಿಯುಸಿ ಮತ್ತು ಬಿಎಸ್ ಸಿ ಓದಿದವನು, 78-83 ಇಸವಿಯಲ್ಲಿ. ಪೂಜ್ಯರೆ, ನನ್ನ ಅಪರಾಧವನ್ನು ಕ್ಷಮಿಸಿರಿ. ನಾನು ತಮ್ಮ ವಿಷಯದಲ್ಲಿ ಅಪಶಬ್ದಗಳನ್ನು ಆಡಿದ್ದೇನೆ. ಸಾಕ್ಷಾತ್ ತಾವೇ ನನಗೆ ಕುಮಾರಸಂಭವದ ಪಾರ್ವತೀಭಾವಪರೀಕ್ಷಾ ಪಾಠ ಮಾಡಿದಿರಿ. ಸಾಕ್ಷಾತ್ ರಂಗಪ್ರಿಯ ಸ್ವಾಮಿಗಳೇ ನಮಗೆ ಅಭಿಜ್ಞಾನಶಾಕುಂತಲ ಪಾಠ ಮಾಡಿದರು.

 ನನ್ನ  ಕರ್ತವ್ಯವೇನಿತ್ತು ಗುರುಗಳೆ? ನಾನು ಮಾಯೆಯ ಬೆಂಕಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಬಿದ್ದು ಸಂಕಟಪಡುತ್ತಿರುವಾಗ ಕಾಪಾಡಿದವರು ಸದ್ಗುರುಗಳು. ಅವರ ನಿಂದೆಯನ್ನು ಸಹಿಸಲಾರದೆ ಹೋದೆ. ಎರಡುಸಾವಿರದ ಹದಿನಾರನೆಯ ಇಸವಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಮಾಯೆಯ ದೆಸೆಯಿಂದ ನನಗೆ ಪ್ರಾಣಸಂಕಟ ಒದಗಿದ್ದಾಗ ನನ್ನ ಕೈಹಿಡಿದು ಸದ್ಗುರುಗಳು ಕಾಪಾಡದೇ ಹೋಗಿದ್ದಲ್ಲಿ ಮಹಾಯಾತನೆಯಿಂದ ಸಾಯಬೇಕಾಗಿತ್ತು. ಸಮಯಕ್ಕೆ ಒದಗಿ ಅಭಯದಾನ ಮಾಡಿ ಕಾಪಾಡಿದ ಅವರ ನಿಂದೆಯನ್ನು ನಿತ್ಯಾನಂದ ಮಿಶ್ರರು ಮಾಡಿದರು. ಆ ಪಾಡ್ ಕಾಸ್ಟ್ ನೋಡಿದ ದಿನದಿಂದಲೇ ಅವರನ್ನು ಖಂಡಿಸುವ ಅವಕಾಶಕ್ಕಾಗಿ ಕಾಯುತ್ತಿದ್ದೆ. ಈಗಲೂ ಸಹ ಅವರ ವಾದವನ್ನು ನಾನು ಶತಶಃ ಖಂಡಿಸದೆ ಬಿಡಲಾರೆ. ತಮ್ಮ ಪಾದಾರವಿಂದಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಮತ್ತೊಮ್ಮೆ ನಮಸ್ಕರಿಸಿ ಅರಿಕೆ ಮಾಡಿಕೊಳ್ಳುವುದೆಂದರೆ ನಾನು ಪರವಸ್ತುವಿನ ದರ್ಶನ ಮಾಡಿದ್ದು ಅಪ್ಪಟ ಸತ್ಯ. ಕೃಪಾಲು ಮಹಾರಾಜರು ನನ್ನ ಮೇಲೆ ಕೃಪೆ ಮಾಡಿದ್ದು ಅಪ್ಪಟ ಸತ್ಯ. ಮಾಯಾತರಣ ಮಾಡಿದ ಜನರು ಮಾಯೆಯ ಸಂಕಟವನ್ನು ತಿಳಿದಿರುತ್ತಾರೆ. ಮತ್ತು ಮಾಯಾತಾರಣ ಮಾಡಿಸುವವರನ್ನು ಗುರುತಿಸಿ ಗೌರವಿಸುತ್ತಾರೆ. ಇದೇ ಮಾಯಾತರಣ ಮಾಡಿದ ಜನರ ಒಂದು ಮುಖ್ಯ ಲಕ್ಷಣ. ಅದು ಮಿಶ್ರರಲ್ಲಿ ಇದೆಯೇ ಗುರುಗಳೆ? ಒಟ್ಟು ಲೋಕವು ಮಾಯೆಯ ಬೆಂಕಿಯಲ್ಲಿ ಬಿದ್ದು ಬೇಯುತ್ತಿರುವಾಗ ಈ ಘನಪಂಡಿತರು ಶಿವನು ಹದಿನೈದು ಸಾವಿರ ವರ್ಷಗಳ ಹಿಂದೆ ಬಂದಿದ್ದಕ್ಕೆ ಸಾಕ್ಷಿ ಏನಿದೆ ಅಂತ ಸದ್ಗುರುಗಳನ್ನು ಕೇಳುತ್ತಿದ್ದಾರೆ. ಇದು ಪಾಂಡಿತ್ಯವೆ? ಇದೇ ಮಿಶ್ರರ ಮನೆಯ ಜನರು ಮಾಯಾತರಣ ಮಾಡಿದ್ದಾರೆಯೆ? ಸ್ವತಃ ಮಿಶ್ರರು ಮಾಯಾತರಣ ಮಾಡಿದ್ದಾರೆಯೆ? ಮಾಯಾತರಣಕ್ಕಿಂತಲೂ ಶಿವನು ಹದಿನೈದು ಸಾವಿರ ವರ್ಷಗಳ ಹಿಂದೆ ಯಾವ ಭಾಷೆಯಲ್ಲಿ ಉಪದೇಶ ಮಾಡಿದ ಅನ್ನುವುದು ಮುಖ್ಯವಾಯಿತೆ? ಇವರು ಪಂಡಿತರೆ? ಗುರುಗಳೆ, ನಾನು ಕೇಳುತ್ತಿದ್ದೇನೆ, ಇವರು ಪಂಡಿತರೆ?

ಮಾಯೆಯಿಂದ ಬಿಡಿಸದ ಪಾಂಡಿತ್ಯ ಸುಡಲಿ. ಅಂಥ ಪಂಡಿತರ ಸಂಗವು ಜನ್ಮ ಜನ್ಮಾಂತರಗಳಲ್ಲೂ ನನಗೆ ಆಗದಿರಲಿ. ಇದೇ ನನ್ನ ಕೊನೆಯ ಮಾತು, ಗುರುಗಳೆ.
ತಮ್ಮ ಪಾದಾರವಿಂದಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ವಿನಯದಿಂದ ಸಾಷ್ಟಾಂಗ ಪ್ರಣಾಮ ಮಾಡುತ್ತಾ ಇದೇ ನನ್ನ ಕೊನೆಯ ಮಾತು. ಅಂದರೆ ಈ ವಿಷಯದಲ್ಲಿ ಇದೇ ನನ್ನ ಕೊನೆಯ ಮಾತು.

ತಮ್ಮ ಆದೇಶದಂತೆ ನಾನು ಯಾವ ಯಾವ ವಿಷಯಗಳನ್ನು ಸದ್ಗುರುಗಳಿಂದ ತಿಳಿದುಕೊಂಡೆನೋ ಅವೆಲ್ಲವನ್ನೂ ಪಟ್ಟಿ ಮಾಡಿ ಮತ್ತೆ ಬರೆಯುತ್ತೇನೆ. ಅದು ಸ್ವಲ್ಪ ಸಮಯ ಹಿಡಿಯುವ ಕೆಲಸ. ಒಂದೆರಡು ಅಥವಾ ಮೂರು ನಾಲ್ಕು ವಾರಗಳಲ್ಲಿ ಮಾಡುತ್ತೇನೆ. ಈ ಮಧ್ಯೆ ನನ್ನ
ಉಪಜೀವನದ ಕೆಲಸಗಳನ್ನು ಮುಂದುವರಿಸಬೇಕಾದ ಅನಿವಾರ್ಯತೆಯೂ ಇದೆ.

ಇದೆಲ್ಲವನ್ನೂ ಇಂಗ್ಲೀಷಿನಲ್ಲಿ ಬರೆಯುವುದು ಕಷ್ಟ ಗುರುಗಳೆ, ಕನ್ನಡ ಎಷ್ಟೆಂದರೂ ಮಾತೃಭಾಷೆ.

ನಮಸ್ಕಾರಗಳು,
ಶ್ರೀನಿವಾಸ

[Harsha M]

Hello 

What is pseudo-science depends on what is science, something that could be called pseudo-science now might not be then, we have to call them out and expire such shlokas even if they come from Shastras.

A very simple thing,
1. Makara Sankranti is still observed on Jan 14 in many solar calendars of India but it is already moved behind to Dec 22
2. Rashi-phala and Jyotishhastra, if Astro-Talks speaks about it that's fine it is their business, but not Panchanga writers, they should call it out as pseudoscience
3. Recent Dvaita-Advaita arguments feel like a huge bunch of pseudo science, by both Advaita Vadins and Dvaita Vadins.
4. The basis of Upanayana Samskara was to have a ritual before sending to studies, and those who don't study remained a  non-Dvija. If the study is administrative and warfare kshatriya, trade and business vaishya, philosophy and research (where I put any open research which as a supply dont have any material demand and hence need an explicit sponsorship, like astronomy, medical research, philosophy, spirituality etc.).  -- Restricting it to Brahmanas by Mathas is a pseudo science. 

This should not be restricted to one Sadhguru claiming which can be a Hyperbole which is the uniqueness of Indian culture (like Rama lived for 110000 years, Krishna married 16000 wives, etc.), hyperboles need to be controlled but the essence of message needs to be seen beyond hyperbole, and our spiritual leaders also need to avoid such traps.

Because of this though I like to study Indian philosophy, epics and literature I stay cautious with Spiritual Gurus, Matadhishas, Priests, etc.

Thanks for this thread. Hope it reaches farther than being a mere one-off observation.

Regards,
Harsha

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[Rajaram Krishnamurthy]

  dEAR ALL

           tHERE ARE SCHOLARS ONLY TO ARGUE IN INDIA; I AM SORRY O SAY THAT WITH THE VAST TREASURE IN INDIA IN ABUNDANCE SO FAR ,THERE IS , NONE TO WRITE GOOD TREATISES ,OTHER THAN AND AFTER ADI SHANKARA AND SAYANA ,PARTLY DAYANANDA AND ARABINDO VIVEKANANDA, BUT THESE KINDS OF DEBATE GROW AT LARGE. I DO REMEMBER "Instead of absorbing multiple perspectives and creating a fuller picture, academic and political debates encourage mutual exclusion: if one side is right, the other must be entirely wrong. A nation-state needs loyal citizens, especially when it is surrounded by hostile nation-states. This poses a problem for historians. Should history indulge the needs of the nation? Or should it criticize the nation’s past in the pursuit of truth?  truth-seekers and justice-seekers, despite being driven by ideology. History remains more belief-based, i.e. mythical, than academicians are willing to admit. DEVDUTT PATNAIK WORDS.  AND ALSO REMEMBER NITHYANANDA MISHRA CALLING HIM FOR A DEBATE THRO MANY MEDIA. LEARNING SANSKRIT DID NOT MAKE MANY A RESEARCHER; BUT WITH EXPERIENCES IN SANSKRIT, AND CONVERSING WITH THE KASI PUNDITS AND LIKE, MANY BRITISHERS AND WEST AND PRESENT DAY BOOK WRITERS , WASTE OUR NATIONAL ASSET. WHAT EACH WROTE IS STILL A OPINION AND BY LEARNING OR NOT LEARNING SANSKRIT, COMMERCIAL INTERPRETATIONS WILL NOT LEAVE ANYONE WHO REFUSED TO SEE THE INNER MEANING BUT GRAZES OUTWARDLY, ANY GODMEN OR WOMEN NEED NOT BE CRITICISED INCLUDING KINGDOM NITHYANANDA SINCE ARE THERE NOT MEANINGS INSIDE THEIR WORDS, INSPITE OF BEING COMMERCIAL?; AND THOSE SPEAK AGAINST ARE ALSO COMMERCIAL AS VP OF FINANCIAL KINGDOM IN MUMBAI ONLY. AS LONG AS THE INNER MEANINGS OF THE RIG VEDA AND UPANISHADS ARE NOT DECODED WE LOSE OUR CREDIBILITY BEFORE THE WEST AND WE ALREADY PAID THRO OUR OWN AUTHORS AND STILL WALKING TOWARDS. LET THERE BE A NEW LEAF. K RAJARAM IRS 2 8 26

On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 at 09:07, Srinivas Rg <writ...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/609a9186-6e7d-4294-80d7-2ecc7f5dbdb8n%40googlegroups.com.

[Sanskrit Names]

Please avoide ALL CAPS.

It is jarring, and rude in netiquette.

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

~ Sanskrit Names

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[Rajaram Krishnamurthy]

On Sun, 2 Aug 2026 at 14:54, Rajaram Krishnamurthy <keyar...@gmail.com> wrote:

No, it is incorrect to say Makara Sankranti falls back to December 22. Makara Sankranti continues to be celebrated on January 14 or 15 each year on the Gregorian calendar.

Why December 22 is Mentioned?    December 22 is the winter solstice (the shortest day of the year and the true astronomical start of the sun's northward journey, or Uttarayana). About 1,700 to 1,800 years ago, the winter solstice and Makara Sankranti actually coincided in late December.

“Unlike most other Hindu holidays, which are determined according to the lunisolar Hindu calendar, Makar Sankranti is reckoned according to the solar calendar and thus falls on approximately the same day annually in the Gregorian calendar. In Hindu astrology (jyotisha), there is in every month a sankranti—the transition of the Sun into a new astrological sign. The entrance of the Sun into the sign of makara (a mythological crocodile-like creature), which roughly corresponds to the sign of Capricorn, is considered particularly auspicious, because it is popularly regarded as marking the beginning of the Sun’s northward course. Makar Sankranti marks the entrance of the Sun into makara according to sidereal time, which is measured against stars, whereas solstices are reckoned according to tropical time, which is measured against the location of the Sun. Calculated against solar time, the winter solstice (December 21 or 22) marks the beginning of the Sun’s northward journey. Because of the precession of equinoxes, these two dates—the entrance of the Sun into the sign of makara and the beginning of the Sun’s northward journey—have separated.” [Brittanica][Bhishma verse predicting his date of death]

                 Why the Date Stays in January?     Traditional Hindu astrology (Jyotisha) calculates Makara Sankranti based on the sidereal zodiac (fixed against the background stars) rather than the tropical seasons. Due to the precession of the equinoxes (the slow wobble of the Earth's axis), the seasonal calendar and the stellar calendar have drifted apart by about 24 to 25 days. Because the festival follows this fixed sidereal calculation, it remains locked to mid-January.

      2      The roots of the panchangam trace back to Vedic timekeeping (Jyotisha), one of the six auxiliary disciplines (Vedangas). The Rigveda references celestial cycles and 300 days to 360-day year divided into 12 lunar-solar months. [wheels of SUN} The specific mathematical framework crystallized in the Vedanga Jyotisha by Rishi Lagadha had origins of many Rig Vedic verses and Gregorian calendar is the Pseudo science from Vedic science. Every incident in Vedic scriptures is dated by panchangam data only. Precession marked long ago here. Modern science discovered from Physics as well as Boudica of Vedas. Jyodisha was once by Guru; after seeing the copied astrology from here, by the west in different names, it is commercialized; but pseudo-science boundary is in the west. NOT ONLY FAKE CREATIONS IN WEST BUT ALSO CLAIMED AS TRUE SCIENCE IS A JOKE.   AND JOKES ARE ACCEOTED BY SOME HERE. CAPITAL IS NOT RUDE BUT INVITES YOUR ATTENTION.

            Advaita (Non-Dualism): Proposes that a single universal consciousness (Brahman) is the only reality, and the material world is an illusion (Maya). Dvaita (Dualism): Proposes that God, souls, and matter are permanently distinct real entities. It views the material universe as fully real rather than illusory, aligning closer to common-sense realism. Duality is behind the western world in whose modern science a few walks around with heads high. IF DUALISM IS PSEUDO SCIENCE WHAT ABOUT DETERMINATIONS OF DUALITY OF THE WEST? MODERN SCIENCE IN ITSELF IS A DUALITY. CAPITAL LETTERS ARE NOT RUDE.

             Advaita (Nondualism ; A-not, Dvaita-two) is one of the many spiritual philosophies that have their origin in the Vedas, the primary religious scriptures of Hinduism. There are four Vedas – Rig, Yajur, Sama, and Atharva. In each Veda, the first section dealing with various religious rituals is known as Karma Kanda (Karma – action, Kanda – portion) and the second part that is concerned with spiritual topics is called Jnana Kanda (Jnana – knowledge) or Vedanta (anta – end; Vedanta – ultimate goal of the Vedas). Within the Jnana Kanda, there are numerous self-contained texts called Upanishads dealing with the spiritual knowledge for attaining Moksha (liberation) through the realization of the true nature of one’s self. This knowledge is typically imparted by Gurus (teachers) to Sishyas (disciples) in the form of a dialog with questions and answers. The entire spiritual philosophy of Advaita has long been elegantly summarized into the following three fundamental postulates:

1.   Brahman Satyam: The only truth is Brahman (the infinite, universal consciousness).

2.   Jagat Mithya: The whole experienced universe is only an illusion (due to Maya).

3.   Jivo Brahmaiva Na parah: The Atman, the individual consciousness, is identical to Brahman.

   As a highly intellectual pursuit with the aim of relieving suffering, Advaita shares many similarities with psychiatry, some of which I have highlighted. While Advaita deals with nondualism at the plane of a higher reality, psychiatry as a profession is still endeavoring to overcome the powerful Cartesian dualism that has been dominating medical thinking for centuries, to try to establish another kind of nondualism − parity between mental and physical health. Over the last few decades, there appears to be a growing interest in applying aspects of Advaita philosophy to modern psychology and psychiatry. {Advaita: Oneness as a lived reality—examining aspects of profound and a radical psychology SA Pandit Psychology and Developing Societies, 2021•journals.sagepub.com} WHICH IS PSEUDO SCIENCE?

            The upanayana is one of the samskaras, the rites of passage that shape the whole course of life for many Hindus. There are rites for the safe-delivery of a baby, rites of naming, first-feeding, and first hair-cutting. There are samskaras for education, for marriage, and for the maturity of old age. In performing all these rites, Hindus powerfully enact the sanctity that should flower in each and every phase of human life. SAMSKARAS 40 /16 ARE  

Saṃskāra (संस्कार) has various context-driven meanings, that broadly refer to "the putting together, accomplishing well, making perfect, a form of solemn recognition and getting ready, engaging in works and acknowledging the purification of body by cleansing or mind by education or an object by a process (such as polishing a gem or refining a metal)".  The word samskara is rare in the oldest layer of Vedic literature, but its roots sam and kr occur often enough.

न । ताः । अर्वा । रेणुककाटः । अश्नुते । न । संस्कृतत्रम् । उप । यन्ति । ताः । अभि । उरुगायम् । अभयम् । तस्य । ताः । अनु । गावः । मर्तस्य । वि । चरन्ति । यज्वनः ॥ R V 6  28  4

na | tāḥ | arvā | reṇu-kakāṭaḥ | aśnute | na | saṃskṛta-tram | upa | yanti | tāḥ | abhi | uru-gāyam | abhayam | tasya | tāḥ | anu | gāvaḥ | martasya | vi | caranti | yajvanaḥ

“Let not the dust-spurning (war) horse reach them nor let them fall in the way of sacrificial consecration let the cattle of the man who offers sacrifice wander about at large and without fear.”

Commentary by Sāyaṇa: Ṛgveda-bhāṣya

Not let them fall: na saṃskṛtatram abhyupayanti = viśasanādisaṃskādisaṃskāram nābhyupagacchantu, let them not go right to the consecration of immolation; as metonymy, perhaps the cows means their produce, milk and butter, which are constantly offered

यः । उग्रः । सन् । अनिःस्तृतः । स्थिरः । रणाय । संस्कृतः । यदि । स्तोतुः । मघवा । शृणवत् । हवम् । न । इन्द्रः । योषति । आ । गमत् ॥

yaḥ | ugraḥ | san | aniḥ-stṛtaḥ | sthiraḥ | raṇāya | saṃskṛtaḥ | yadi | stotuḥ | magha-vā | śṛṇavat | havam | na | indraḥ | yoṣati | ā | gamat

“He who is fierce, unmoved (by foes) and firm, ready equipped for battle-- if Maghavan hears theinvocation of his adorer, he will not go apart (from us) but come here.”

 The word appears in Rig Veda hymns 6.28.4 and 8.33.9, as well as other Vedic texts, where the context suggests it simply means "purify, prepare". It appears in Jaimini Purvamimamsa-sutra  many times, where it again means "prepare, perfect, polish" something, either through action, speech or mind. In sections 3.8.3, 9.3.25 and 10.2.49 of the Jaimini Pūrvamīmaṃsa-sutra, the word samskara is used to describe actions of "washing the teeth, shaving the head, cutting nails, sprinkling water" as part of a ceremony. Samskara is defined by ancient Indian scholar Shabara as, "that which prepares a certain thing or person fit for a certain purpose". samskara in Hindu traditions, states Kane, have been ceremonies, expressing outward symbols or signs of inner change, marking life events of significance. They served a spiritual, cultural and psychological purpose, welcoming an individual into a stage of life, conferring privileges to the individual(s), expecting duties from the individual, and impressing on the individual as well individual's social circle of their new role.  IF YOU WISH YOU DO IT OR THROW IT/ WHERE IS PSEUDO SCIENCE COMES IN HERE? If you wish to clean your teeth, do it or refrain from; its your outlook; WHERE IS PSEUDO CREEPS IN?

                  Hyperbole bridges the gap between objective reality and subjective human experience in literature. While an absolute statement like "I have cried a river" is factually false, it acts as an authentic reflection of a character's internal, emotional truth. Hyperbole functions as a direct window into an individual's psychology.  Objective language often fails to communicate overwhelming experiences. Telling an audience that a character is "deeply in love" lacks the punch of William Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet, where Romeo declares Juliet's eyes could "stream so bright / That birds would sing and think it were not night. How the hyperbole was taken here by a few but only against, Sanskrit literatures?  In Harper Lee’s To Kill a Mockingbird, Scout notes that days seemingly grew longer because there was "nowhere to go, nothing to buy and no money to buy it with." This hyperbole captures the agonizing pace of childhood poverty and boredom. IF SO, WHY HYPERBOLE IN ANCIENT CULTURE SPIKED AT? SELF-APPRAISAL OF SUCH?

          In case of differed views which could be modified after several years ( I HAD SEEN SO MANY} LET NOT FLOWING MIND DISTORT OUR OWN HOUSE. THANK YOU  K RAJARAM IRS 2826 

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