scriptural reference for not wearing stitched clothes for the orthodox

[Krishna Kashyap]

Namaste, 

my friend asked me this question below:

Can  you  get  me  the  scriptural  citations  for  the  traditional  Hindu  practice  of  not  wearing  stitched  clothing ?  I  presume  these  citations  are  in  the  Dharmashastras.

Both  panche  and  uttariya  (shalya)  are  not  stitched  clothing.  That  is  why  vaidikas  wear  those.  They  do  not  wear  jubba,  kurta,  pyjamas  etc.

Is this as per dharma shastras or just a social practice not to follow foreign clothing styles? Is this practice prior to the times of invaders who invaded India, or was it there even before 9th CE. or so?

****************************

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

[Krishna Kashyap]

Namaste, 

correcting a small mistake in my prior email:

my friend asked me this question below:

Can  you  get  me  the  scriptural  citations  for  the  traditional  Hindu  practice  of  not  wearing  stitched  clothing ?  I  presume  these  citations  are  in  the  Dharmashastras.

Both  panche  and  uttariya  (shalya)  are  not  stitched  clothing.  That  is  why  vaidikas  wear  those.  They  do  not  wear  jubba,  kurta,  pyjamas  etc.

Is this as per dharma shastras or just a social practice not to follow foreign clothing styles? Is this practice after the times of invaders who invaded India, or was it there even before 9th CE. or so?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)]

Namaste 

 

 

On : < … scriptural  citations  for  the  traditional  Hindu  practice  of  not  wearing  stitched  clothing resume these citations are in the Dharmashastras ?  Is this as per dharma shastras or just a social practice not to follow foreign clothing styles? Is this practice after the times of invaders who invaded India, or was it there even before 9th CE. or so >   

 

 

Sharing a memory based response on above question,  provided by Sri Rangapriya Swamy ji. (I do not remember the historic date – time place for citation; it is more than 30 years back at least).

 

1. ‘Traditional Hindu Practice’- even across the ‘Sampradaya – Nishtha- Brahmana segment’ in NOT wearing the stitched clothe during ‘Vedic Recitation ( Parayanam- Pooja – Patha- Homa) are at variance across different parts of Bharath.  For example:  the Rudri – reciters / Saptashati Parayana -  in south India,  Gruhasthas wear a ‘ (Pancha-Kaccha) vastra ;  Unmarried are not compelled for ‘Kaccha’. 

 

So Hindu Practices (generic)  are not constrained to ‘ Specific Sampradaya of Brahmana – Vastra- Vesha –Bhooshaa - Chinha’.  Cultural and Comfort Compliances are not exactly the essence of Vedic / Dharma Shaastra / Yoga compliance.

 

Therefore, any possible reference that comes up – traced to Puranas or other ‘aachaara – smruti’ works  in this context is an ‘ socio- contextual implementation of Dharma-Shaastra as a Yogic Principle’ reminder.  The other extreme end in a lighter vein is : The Vedic citer must not be ‘nude’ ( nagna ) ! – irrespective of the ‘ dress – code guidelines’.   

 

When ‘Desha’ Kaala changes – like an Indian ‘Vaidika’- going abroad and faces  Nature – atmospheric variations, affecting the ‘ wellbeing of ‘Body (= aarogya- saukhya), the relaxation to rule in ‘aachaara’-  is allowed.

 

2.  This brings to the next question:  wearing of  Native Handmade local market clothing to ‘Foreign/ Pre stitched clothing’ during Parayana.

Same logic as above. When ‘Japa- Homa- Parayana’ are not done as ‘Yoga’;  and event is more of a ritual –social mode, the local cultural conveniences take precedence.   The dress code of a ‘Maharashtrian Purohita’ differs from the dress code – appearance of a ‘ Pundit’ at Nepal- Both reciting same Veda- Parayana.

 

3.  What is  ‘Japa- Homa- Parayana’   done as ‘Yoga -  in Yajna Model?  ’;   

 

      The symbolic explanation of ‘Clothe’( Plain) is equated to wrap of ‘Unbound Aakasha/ Akhanda Shabda / Atma Chaitanya’- an anchor

      transcendence level as  a pre-qualification to probe deeper in to Veda Parayana and Internally  Vocalize ( Vaikhari to Madhyama / Baahya to

        Abhyantara – journey ). This is ‘Aakaasha Shareeram Brahma’ linked Yoga- directive.  

 

        Acharya Shankaras sloka says – ‘Nagno Nissanga –shuddho- Tri-Guna –Virahito….’ -as ‘ staying in Prakruti and aiming to get Triguna freedom’.

 

       The symbolic explanation of ‘Clothe’( stitched – cut  print decorated / coloured ) is equated to  ‘Bound Aakasha/  khanda vakya / Devataa-

        Chaitanya’, the finite manifestation of Avyakta;   an anchor with a name –form as  Devataa ;  a pre-qualification to access Para Brahma

         through Veda Parayana.   That is ‘Devataa’ before ‘ Brahma’.   This is Ganapathyatharva sheersha :  The difference between  worshipping

        Ganapathy  as   ‘Dhyana-sloka- described Devataa’ before experiencing  ‘Ganapathy as   ‘Tvameva Pratyaksham Brahmaasi’ Yoga- directive.

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[bharat gupt]

Unstitched garments have been regarded as purer and essential for rituals in the Mediterranean and even the Middle East. For example, in the Haj unstitched is essential.

Nothing 'foreign' about this.

Regards,

Bharat Gupt
Former Faculty, Delhi University,
Trustee and Executive Member
INDIRA GANDHI NATIONAL CENTER FOR THE ARTS
(Ministry of Culture), New Delhi

Vice Chairman,NATIONAL SCHOOL OF DRAMA

mobile:+91- 98100 77914
email: bharat...@gmail.com
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[V Subrahmanian]

As rightly pointed out, the rules for clothing, even during rituals, in temples, etc. are region specific.  This can be clearly observed in the North India where the cold weather demands specific clothing to enable normal functions.  Purohits, archakas, etc. are seen wearing banian, jibba, sometimes even pants, sweaters, woollen caps, and even gloves etc. during their ritualistic functioning. In fact this has not spared even the deities: There is the practice of draping Rama, Lakshmana in full sleeve shirts/jibba.  We saw the purohits dressed that way during the Ram Mandir prana pratishtha day.  

The archaka of the temple at Badrinath is dressed in such attire during snowfall. 

regards

subrahmanian.v    

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[Yasoda Jivan dasa]

Namaskarah 

I don't remember exactly either in parasar madhav or yajnavalkya smriti it is said that stitched cloth is considered in the category of nagna (naked).  Therefore traditionally brahmanas don't wear it in yajna.  Still from the quotation from bhagavatam it do clear that there were kancukas and other such  things  in previous yugas,  which were stitched clothes. 

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[kenp]

Here are some links.

https://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/hindu-lifestyle/hindu-attire/sewing-clothes#:~:text=Since%20every%20thread%20in%20an,of%20spiritual%20healing%20is%20more.

https://medium.com/habibainsaf/a-stitch-in-time-69c7ea6c7c35

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewing_needle#:~:text=England%20began%20creating%20needles%20in,the%20principal%20place%20of%20manufacture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewing_machine

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-these-six-religious-groups-wear-what-they-wear_n_55ce7bcae4b055a6dab07ad0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty

https://apparelresources.com/technology-news/manufacturing-tech/stitch-free-garmentst-the-future-of-sewn-industry/

[Shoba Narayan]

When I was researching why Indian women preferred sarees, a textile historian called Uzramma who founded Dastkar Andhra used a lovely phrase.  She said, "We are raised with a belief in the 'purity of the unstitched cloth'"

Just another data point.

[Krishna K]

Please see the attached image which prohibits people from doing
shrauta-smaarta karma in a 'nagna' state. Wearing stitched clothes
(syuta-vastra) is considered nagna. It is quoted in one of the
commentaries on Shri Madhvacharya's sadachara-smriti. It seems fairly
popular; remember seeing the 10 types of nagnatva (with some
modifications) in smriti-sangraha kind of texts.

Regards,
Krishna

On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 10:59 AM Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[संस्कृत संवादः]

।।श्रीभगवानुवाच।।
कार्पासं कम्बलं बाल्कं कोशजं वस्त्रमिष्यते।
तत्‌पूर्वं पूजयित्वैव मन्त्रैर्देवाय चोत्सृजेत्।। ६९.१ ।।

निर्दशं मलिनं जीर्णं छिन्नं गात्रावलिङ्गितम्।
परकीयं ह्याखुदष्टं सूचीविद्धं तथोषितम्।। ६९.२ ।।

उप्तलेशं विधौतं च श्लेष्ममूत्रादिदूषितम्।
प्रदाने देवताभ्याश्च दैवे पित्र्ये च कर्मणि।। ६९.३ ।।

वर्जयेत् स्वोपयोगे न यज्ञादावुपयोजने।
उत्तरीयोत्तरासङ्गैर्निचोलो मोदचेलकः।। ६९.४ ।।

परिधानं च पञ्चैतान्यस्यूतानि प्रयोजयेत्।
शाण वस्त्रं निशारं च तथैवातपवारणम्।। ६९.५ ।।

चण्डातकं तथा दूश्यं पञ्च स्यूतान्यदुष्टये।
पताकाध्वजदण्डादौ स्यूतं वस्त्रं प्रयोजयेत्।। ६९.६ ।।

इति श्रीकालिकापुराणे।

शनिवार, 27 जनवरी 2024 को 5:36:25 pm UTC+5:30 बजे Krishna K ने लिखा:

[Surajit Dasgupta]

Is there any scientific evidence in support of the belief that Vedic-era India already had the needle as a stitching/sewing/knitting implement? If yes, the Britannica and Wikipedia articles that credit England for the invention in 1639 CE must be edited. If not, the question of a choice Vedic Indians had between stitched and unstitched clothing does not arise.

Of course, Sanskrit has words like सूची, सूच, सूचिका, सूचिनी, ग्रन्थनसूची, सेवनी, कूर्चिका, वेशी, शलाका, सीवनी, and कुर्चिका, but what kind of needles were they? Is there a possibility that some or all of these words entered Sanskrit vocabulary at a stage in history after the invention of sewing needles?

Regards,

Surajit Dasgupta
Mobile: 9650444033

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[संस्कृत संवादः]

There is no scale to measure the foolishness of those who believe such nonsense western propaganda. I think only another western perspective may suffice them here. 

शनिवार, 27 जनवरी 2024 को 9:40:26 pm UTC+5:30 बजे Surajit Dasgupta ने लिखा:

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/sanskrit_query.py?qs=needle&matchtype=default

Search for term needle in all dictionaries

29 resultsHighlight Devanagari and press "t" to transliterate.

   1) अणिः aṇiḥ from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 37)

अणिः aṇiḥ m. -णी [अणति शब्दायते अण्-इन्] 1 The point of a needle. -2 A linch-pin, the pin or bolt at the end of a pole of carriage. अणीकृत्वैलपत्रं च Mb 7.202.73. -3 A limit. -4...

   2) असूचीसंचार asūcīsañcāra from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 35)

असूचीसंचार asūcīsañcāra a. impenetrable even to a needle.

   3) एकचक्र ekacakra from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 57)

...abst. n.; -kakshus, a. one-eyed (also of a needle); -kará, a. living alone; solitary; m. N. of Siva; -kârinî, f. faithful wife or mistress...

   4) कुशाग्र kuśāgra from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 71)

कुशाग्र kuśāgra n. point of a blade of Kusa: -buddhi, a. whose intellect is as sharp as a needle.

   5) कूर्चिका kūrcikā from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 593)

कूर्चिका kūrcikā 1 A painting brush or pencil. -2 A key. -3 A bud, blossom. -4 Inspissated milk. -5 A needle

   6) जाम्बवम् jāmbavam from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 735)

जाम्बवम् jāmbavam [जम्ब्वाः फलं अण् तस्य बा˚ न लुप् Tv.] 1 Gold. -2 The fruit of the Jambu tree. -Comp. -ओष्ठम् a. cauterizing needle or probe.

   7) झामरः jhāmaraḥ from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 748)

झामरः jhāmaraḥ A small whetstone used in sharpening needles &c.

   8) निष्पाण्डव niṣpāṇḍava from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 145)

...abst. n.; -prabhâva, a. powerless: -tva, n. -ness; -pramâna-ka, a. supported by no authority; -prayogana, a. disinterested (spectator); useless: -m, ad. uselessly; needless, uncalled for;

   9) निस् nis from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 932)

...free from any motive; निष्कारणो बन्धुः. -3 groundless, not proceeding from any cause. (-णम् ind.) without any cause or reason, causelessly, needlessly. -कालकः (निष्कालकः) a penitent shaven and smeared with clarified butter. -कालिक (निष्कालिक) a. 1 one whose...

   10) पाश्चात्त्य pāścāttya from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 162)

पाश्चात्त्य pāścāttya (or -ya), a. posterior; western; last: -bhâga, m. eye (of a needle).

   11) वज्र vajra from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1381)

Mb.1.123.27. -सार a. as hard as adamant, having the strength of the thunderbolt, adamantine; क्व च निशितनिपाता वज्रसाराः शरास्ते Ś.1.10; त्वमपि कुसुमबाणान् वज्रसारीकरोषि 3.4. -सूचिः, -ची f. a diamond-needle. -हृदयम् an adamantine heart.

   12) वज्र vajra from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 267)

...N.: -maya, a. hard as diamond, adamantine; -sârî-kri, make as hard as diamond; -sûkĭ̂, f. diamond needle; (vágra)-hasta, a. holding the thunderbolt in his hand (gnly. of Indra...

   13) विशिखा viśikhā from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1471)

विशिखा viśikhā 1 A spade. -2 A spindle. -3 A needle or pin. -4 A minute arrow. -5 A highway; विशिखायां सौवर्णिकप्रचारः Kau. A.2; Śi.15.70. -6 A barber's wife. -7 A sick-room.

   14) वेशी veśī from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 299)

वेशी veśī f. [√vis] needle (RV.1).

   15) वैयाकरण vaiyākaraṇa from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1503)

वैयाकरण vaiyākaraṇa a. (-णी f.) [व्याकरणं वेत्त्यधीते वा अण्] Grammatical. -णः A grammarian; वैयाकरणकिरातादप- शब्दमृगाः क्व यान्तु संत्रस्ताः Subbāṣ. -Comp. -खसूचिः (a grammarian who merely pierces the air with a needle) a poor grammarian.

   16) शलाक śalāka from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 309)

शलाक śalāka m.2, ãkâ, f. small stick, thin rod, switch, bar (of a cage or window), rib (of an umbrella), pencil (for applying collyrium); finger, toe (rare); pointed instrument for piercing, arrow-head, needle.

   17) सीवनी sīvanī from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1684)

सीवनी sīvanī 1 A needle. -2 The frenum of the prepuce. -3 The part of the body of a horse below the anus.

   18) सूचक sūcaka from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1696)

सूचक sūcaka a. (-चिका f.) [सूच्-ण्वुल्] 1 Indicative, indicating, proving, showing. -2 Betraying, informing; स विनाशं व्रजत्याशु सूचकोऽशुचिरेव च Ms.4.71;11.50. -कः 1 A piercer. -2 A needle, any instrument for...

   19) सूचि sūci from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 357)

सूचि sūci f. needle; sharp point or tip; kind of military array, pointed column; (pointer), index (common in Indian editions ˚– w. -pattra, n.): -ka, m. tailor; -kulâ-ya, den. Â. appear like a collection of needles.

   20) सूचिः, सूची sūcim, sūcī from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1697)

सूचिः sūcim, सूची sūcī f. [सूच्इन् वा ङीप्] 1 Piercing, perforating. -2 A needle; निमेषादपि कौन्तेय यस्यायुरपचीयते । सूच्येवाञ्जनचूर्णस्य किमिति प्रतिपालयेत् ॥ Mb.3.35.3. -3 Sharp point or pointed blade (as of Kuśa grass); अभिनवकुशसूच्या परिक्षतं मे...

   21) सूचिका sūcikā from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1697)

सूचिका sūcikā [सूचि स्वार्थे क] 1 A needle. -2 An elephant's trunk. -Comp. -धरः an elephant. -मुख a. having a pointed mouth or head. (-खम्) a shell, the conch-shell.

   22) सूचिनी sūcinī from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1697)

सूचिनी sūcinī 1 A needle. -2 A night.

   23) सूचिपत्‍त्र sūcipat‍tra from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 357)

सूचिपत्‍त्र sūcipat‍tra n. index; -bhinna, pp. split at the point (bud); -bhedya, fp. so dense as to be capable of being pierced with a needle (darkness); -sikhâ, f. point of a needle.

   24) सूची sūcī from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 357)

सूची sūcī f. needle: -bhedya, fp. to be pierced with a needle, dense, palpable (darkness); -mukha, n. point of a needle: -̮agra- sambhedya, fp. so dense as to be capable of being pierced by a...

   25) सूच्यग्र sūcyagra from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 357)

सूच्यग्र sūcyagra n. point of a needle; -̮âsya, a. having a mouth pointed like a needle; m. mosquito.

   26) सेवती sevatī from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1703)

सेवती sevatī 1 A needle. -2 A seam. -3 A suture or seam-like union of parts of the body.

   27) सौचिक saucika from Macdonell: A practical Sanskrit dictionary (p. 360)

सौचिक saucika m. [needle-man: sûki] tailor.

   28) स्यूत syūta from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1734)

...p. [सिव्-कर्मणि क्त] 1 Sewn with a needle, stitched, woven (fig. also); चिन्तासंततितन्तुजालनबिडस्यूतेव लग्ना प्रिया Māl.5.10. -2 Pierced. -3 Woven together, joined; नीलोपलस्यूतविचित्रधातुमसौ गिरिं रैवतकं ददर्श Śi.4.1. -तः 1 A sack.

   29) स्यूतिः syūtiḥ from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1734)

स्यूतिः syūtiḥ f. [सिव्-भावे क्तिन्] 1 Sewing, stitching. -2 Needle-work. -3 A sack. -4 Lineage, family. -5 Offspring.

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--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Dean, IndicA

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[kenp]

वर्णभेदेन वस्त्रभेदं 'उत्तरीयस्यावश्यकत्व चाह भृगुः

ब्राह्मणस्य सितं वस्त्रं नृपते रक्तमुल्बणम् ।

पीतं वैश्यस्य शूद्रस्य नीलं मलवदिष्यते ।

नोत्तरीयमधः कुर्यात् नोपर्यधस्थमम्बरम् ।

नान्तर्वासो विना जातु निवसेद् वाससं बुधः ।

विवस्त्रो नोत्तरीयश्च नग्नश्चाकच्छ एव च ।

श्रौतं स्मार्तं तथा कर्म न नग्नश्चिन्तयेदिति ।

नग्नो मलिनवस्त्रः स्यात् नग्नः कौशेयकेवलः ।

नग्नो द्विगुणवस्त्रः स्यात् नग्नो दग्धपटस्तथा ।

नग्नश्च स्यूतवस्त्रः स्यात् नग्नो ग्रथितवस्त्रकः ।

नग्नश्च बहुवस्त्रः स्यात् नग्नः कौपीनकेवलः ।

काषायवस्त्रः साक्षाच्च दश नग्नाः प्रकीर्तिताः ।।

https://sa.wikisource.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A0%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D:%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%88%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%97%E0%A5%83%E0%A4%B9%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D-%E0%A4%AD%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%83_%E0%A5%A7.pdf/%E0%A5%A8%E0%A5%A9%E0%A5%AB

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Vedic_Sampattee/u5t4AeL6BmYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%9B%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%A4%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%99%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D%E0%A5%A4&pg=PA9&printsec=frontcover

https://www.google.com/books/edition/%C5%9Ar%C4%81ddha_Kriy%C4%81_Kaumud%C4%AB/sswoAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%B6%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%B2%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%9C%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%B0%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%9B%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%82&pg=PA146&printsec=frontcover

[Yasoda Jivan dasa]

Thank you for this quote.  I believe it is from parasar madhav.  Kindly add reference 

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[Sreedhar Chintalapaty]

नमस्सर्वेभ्यः 

It occurs to me that the injunction against stitched clothes must be read in the context of the injunction for mandatory poverty ( कुंभीधान्यः) and स्वाध्याय rather than the context of whether or not needles and tailoring existed.

Within the context of mandatory poverty and स्वाध्याय, stitched clothes represent a reprehensible departure from the norm.

बुधजनविधेयः

श्रीधरः

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[kenp]

सूचिः containing verses but none with सूचि

https://sa.wikisource.org/w/index.php?go=%E0%A4%97%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A4%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D&search=%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%82%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%83&title=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B6%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%83%3A%E0%A4%85%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B5%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%A3%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%8D&ns0=1

To find the verses one can search the rest of the Sanskrit words related to needle here.

[संस्कृत संवादः]

निषिद्धवस्त्राणि यथा । भारते ।
न स्यूतेन न दग्धेन पारक्येण विशेषतः ।
मूषिकोत्कीर्णजीर्णेन कर्म्म कुर्य्याद्विचक्षणः ॥

इति शब्दकल्पद्रुमे वाचस्पत्ये च। 

परन्तु भारते कुत्र उल्लेखितः इति न ज्ञायते।

शनिवार, 27 जनवरी 2024 को 5:36:25 pm UTC+5:30 बजे Krishna K ने लिखा:

Please see the attached image which prohibits people from doing

[kenp]

Yasoda Jivan dasa wrote:
Thank you for this quote. I believe it is from parasar madhav. Kindly add reference

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.424446/page/n5/mode/2up?view=theater

[Surajit Dasgupta]

I said already that words for "needle" existed in Sanskrit but also asked whether we could be sure those words referred to a sewing needle. Other than a sewing needle, there are crochet needles, knitting needles, trussing needles, upholstery needles etc.

And if Sanskrit vocabulary does have a word or words for sewing needles, do we know when exactly the word or words entered the lexicon? History tells us that quite a few of the scriptures named in this Google Group conversation are not of the Vedic era (the period of which begins in an unknown date of origin but ends in 500 BCE). This is a legitimate etymological inquiry. There is nothing "foolish" in the question. If it's Western propaganda, it must be challenged and encyclopaedias with an air of authority, which further such 'propaganda', must be edited.

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

28) स्यूत syūta from Apte: The practical Sanskrit-English dictionary (p. 1734)

...p. [सिव्-कर्मणि क्त] 1 Sewn with a needle, stitched, woven (fig. also); चिन्तासंततितन्तुजालनबिडस्यूतेव लग्ना प्रिया Māl.5.10. -2 Pierced. -3 Woven together, joined; नीलोपलस्यूतविचित्रधातुमसौ गिरिं रैवतकं ददर्श Śi.4.1. -तः 1 A sack.

Clearly sewing is mentioned. 

The sources seem to be , if I understood the abbreviations correctly,

 Malavikagnimitram (4th - 5th Century CE)

 and Shishupalavadha ( 7th Century CE)

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[Sreedhar Chintalapaty]

I got this info on wikipedia

A number of needles were found in Harappa. In fact, Harappans are credited with inventing the eye of the needle.

Vibha, Tripathi (2018). "Metals and Metallurgy in Harappan Civilization". Indian Journal of History of Science. 53 (3). doi:10.16943/ijhs/2018/v53i3/49460.

Thanks,

Sreedhar

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[V Subrahmanian]

In the Jivanmukti Viveka, Swami Vidyaranya gives an analogy:

नापि स्थूलेन खनित्रेण सूच्येव सूक्ष्मपटस्यूतिः सम्भवति |  

It is impossible to stitch a soft/thin cloth with the crowbar as the needle.  

If knitted cloth is also under the 'nagna' category, I am afraid the woollen cap/scarf worn by orthodox sannyasins would also be a taboo. Or maybe the rules are only for clothing used to cover the upper and lower body.  Knitted / stitched Head cap/scarf are not disallowed. In many parts of Karnataka the habit of wearing a cap is there among Brahmins too. Or, again, the restriction is only on stitched clothing during performing rituals and not during other times.

regards      

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[Surajit Dasgupta]

Thank you, Nagaraj ji, for the apt citation and date.

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[संस्कृत संवादः]

Foremost of all you should present evidence or exact reference for the claim that sewing needles were first invented in 17th century. Still I am sharing you a post with exact reference for your knowledge. Also I am attaching an image thereof from government website.

https://twitter.com/monidipadey/status/1534749182736875520?t=2HkKnfHCssT_2U5eEuCmGQ&s=19

रविवार, 28 जनवरी 2024 को 10:20:56 am UTC+5:30 बजे Surajit Dasgupta ने लिखा:

[K S Kannan]

The evidence of the words weave and sew

derived respectively from the Sanskrit veñ and siv

should not be missed.

veñ tantusantāne 1U - vayti - vayate

(Cf. vyeñ saṁvaraṇe 1U  - vyayati-vyayate)

sivu tantusantAne 4P - sīvyati

(Cf. siñ bandhne 5U - sinoti - sinute

                 and 9U - sināti - sinīte  

This is technically ṣiñ) (=ṣopadeśa).

Also note the sense of the anatomical sīvanī and sevanī (frenum or frenulum),

known to Yoga and Āyurveda, referring especially (and indeed picturesquely) 

to the nether middle of the scrota.

Though the word sūtra is derived usually from sūtr (sūtr veṣṭane vimocane ca), 

it is connected to sūc (sūca paiśunye - oh how poor the Dhātupāṭha is!):

sūcanāt sūtram. The twin actions of the needle in enveloping something, 

followed by setting it free (typically the cloth) are both graphically captured 

by the twin meanings here.

One must also not forget the evidence of the age-old rhinoplasty/plastic surgery,

described in detail in Suśruta Saṁhitā, which to the last detail was duly performed

to the French soldier in India (in 1700s?), and later on copied and incorporated into 

Western medical practice). Rhinoplasty of course involves some kind of stitching.

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--

Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor (Retd.), IIT-Madras.

Member, Advisory Board, "Prof. A K Singh AURO Chair of Indic Studies", AURO University, Surat.
Member, Expert Committee for Review of Criticism of Indian Knowledge Traditions, Central Sanskrit University (under MoE, GoI), Ganganath Jha Campus, Prayagraj.
Adjunct Faculty, Dept of Heritage Science and Technology, IIT Hyderabad.

Nominated Member, Academic Committee, Kavi Kula Guru Kalidasa University, Ramtek.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

https://sites.google.com/view/kskannan

[K S Kannan]

Typo :

Before 5U,

pl. read bandhne as bandhane

[K S Kannan]

Yogaśikhopaniṣad 5.27 has it as sīvinī.

[Sahishnu Bhattacharyya]

Dear Krishna Kashyap mahodayā,

Perhaps the point here is not about the stitch itself, but what it represents.

In the samāvartana section of the Pāraskara-gr̥hya (2.6.20), there is a vidhi of using "ahatam vāso dhautam vā amautreṇa ācchādayīta". The commentators Harihara and Gadādhara explain that this phrase refers to a new garment with fringes (navam sadaśam pavitram vasanam), i.e. one that has not been 'injured' by any kind of instrument. A stitch here must be seen as something that pierces the cloth and 'injures' it. Given the Vedic ritual propensity to pay attention to the minute of details, especially when it comes to sharp objects capable of harm, it is understandable that they avoided wearing an 'injured' cloth lest it transfer the negativity onto itself. It may be difficult to relate to this idea in the 21st century, but we must think in terms of the world as it existed then. (For comparison, note how vigrahas of devatās undergo a rite of cleansing to purify the negativity of the sculptor's tools injuring the stone. I believe it is called the agnyuttāraṇa rite [?].) The commentators also add for the phrase "dhautam vā amautreṇa" that it means "arajakena dhautam", i.e. the cloth should not have gone to the washers' for cleaning (who would typically beat the cloth over a stone by the river - as it still done in villages and towns - which is another form of 'injury'). Thus, either a new cloth, or a washed one (but not at the house of the washer).

If we extend that understanding to the stitch, my siddhānta would be: it is a vidhi that prescribes a cloth that has not been at the tailor's or at any one ritually impure place (like the washer's), so that could be a plain fabric with fringes (unsewn edges) or privately washed at one's own home. (Nevertheless, it is arguable to what extent this is possible in modern times, since almost everything we use is produced from somewhere else.)

I hope this is of help!

Svasti,

Sahishnu Bhattacharyya

[Sahishnu Bhattacharyya]

*mahodaya, not mahodayā (apologies for the typo!)

[S. Bhattacharyya]

A contribution to the shastrīya understanding may be to purify the clothing items after the stitching and dyeing work is done. I seem to vaguely remember a local practice of dousing puja-related garments in Gangā-jal separately. One could do such a purification with the āpohishṭhīya mantras, for instance. That could work, by fulfilling the spirit of the śāstras (instead of the literal).

स्वस्तिकामः

Shrī ​​S. Bhattāchāryya, MSc (Osnabrück),

Centre for Research and Archiving (CRA),

Dr. B. R. Ambedkar University Delhi (AUD),

Lothian Road, Kashmere Gate, Delhi -110006

Office hours are by appointment only.

Email address: <sbhatta...@aud.ac.in>

Telegram: @sahishnubhattacharyya

Adhyaksh, Prayogaśāstra Research Group (PRG)

Telegram: @prayogasastra, @ritualshastra

Mailing list: <prayog...@googlegroups.com>

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[BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)]

Namaste

 

 

A  poetic reference from Kalidasa – to the ‘ Soochi’ in  a poetic context. Sharp Needle and piercing .  

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[V Subrahmanian]

There was a tradition some decades ago where women, brahmins and others too, widows and others, would not wear a blouse.  The sari itself would be long enough to fully cover the upper part too.  Even today I have heard that in very orthodox vaishnava households, during cooking for shraaddha, etc. the woman does not wear a blouse. The reason is that it is stitched clothing. 

regards

subrahmanian.v

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[Aravinda Rao]

Even now the sanyasins are expected to wear unstitched clothes. They too cover the shaven heads with the same dhoti. Perhaps it is a mark of simplicity and non-dependence on people to the extent possible. Surprisingly, the Muslims during Haj, wear the same white dhoti (two pieces) which all Hindus wear during religious functions. 

Aravinda rao

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[Krishna Kashyap]

Thanks a lot for all your answers. Namaste

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[Prakash Raj Pandey]

.

This is from the first Volume of Samskara Deepaka by Nityananda Panta Parvatiya. 

न स्यूतेन न दग्धेन पारक्येण विशेषतः 

मूषिकोत्कीर्णजीर्णेन कर्म कुर्यात् विचक्षणाः ॥

regards 
Prakash Raj Pandey

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[kenp]

Tata textile factory plans to make unstitched clothes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFVWeIhkf_M&t=650s