Gotra of Wife After Divorce
Vivek Rallabandi
kenp
rag hari
Regards,
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
On : < Gotra of Wife After Divorce> : < a socio-legal perspective> in context of < Sanathana Dharma >.
Sharing my personal thoughts gleaned from discussions on such ‘Contemporary Relevant issues’ with elders :
This discussion is highly overloaded issue. Opinions might galore than ‘Truth’ and ‘Fact’ (both hurt). The last update deliberation on this ‘ intra- discipline –research’ seen by me is in the magnanimous work of MM P.V.Kane – in the last volume – Which deliberated on ‘ Divorce- Dharma shaastra’ issues, in the context of - The Indian Divorce Act of 1869, a historical statute that was enacted during the British colonial era. It primarily governs the divorce laws applicable to persons professing the Christian faith in India.
A1869-04.pdf (indiacode.nic.in) https://www.indiacode.nic.in/indiacode/bitstream/123456789/2280/1/A1869-04.pdf
More to follow on this at : Hindu Marriages Act -1955.
a1955-25.pdf (indiacode.nic.in) https://www.indiacode.nic.in/bitstream/123456789/5399/1/a1955-25.pdf
1. ‘Gotra’ of wife is a ‘voluntarily –acquired/ accepted / Forced (?) new identity as a part of
‘(Vivaha) Samskara’, more specifically ‘Brahma’ Vivaha.
The new identity does not mitigate or override the ‘Native Inherited ‘Birth-Gotra’ Identity, which cannot
be taken out .
If there be a ‘vivaha- viccheda (divorce/ break), what goes away is the ‘acquired identity; the lady’s
original birth-gotra gotra identity is not disturbed. The original birth gotra identity reverts back.
2. If Marriage breaks, Legally/otherwise (?!),the acquired identity yields place to Native Birth-Gotra identity.
The ‘provision / right / Dharmic frame/ legality’ for ‘divorce’ is a contentious issue between ‘Dharma
Shastra’- rights and and ‘Nation’s Constitution’.
Dharma-Shaastra focuses on Individual duties by Samskara Samsaara (Male and Female) narrative of
Marriage – Vows. Vamsha- Gotra – Kula - Jati are deep linked issues. Man-women relation without
evolving to ‘Marriage- Samskara’ does not create the new entity called ‘FAMILY’ (Kutumba, Gruhasti).
National Constitution/s looks at ‘Marriage: as foundational relation between citizens (humans at nation)
needed to define ‘Family’ – the framework to provide ‘(Family-Court Justice’ (?).
The constituents of Family are limited to ‘individuals’ who opted become ‘Family’ and want to break it.
The family court gives top priority to Fundamental Rights, Responsibilities, duties enshrined with flavours
of Religion- Faith, safeguarding ‘Marriage- Divorce’ choices – The Individual rights for Family Life; which
gets topped up by Global Human rights issues, Women’s rights and international movements !
This, is where I see minimal overlap areas / rather conflict areas which seem to be out of ‘inherited
Dharma –Shaastra/ Artha Shaastra’ texts in the boundaries of Sanatana ‘Dharma- Artha- Kaama-
Moksha’ Shaastra for ‘Purushartha’–Varna Ashrama Dharma abhyasa’. This is where a contentious issue
in society comes up: Can a ‘Sanyasi’ ( who took to Saffron clothe life style’ revert back to ‘ Family life/
Life of Pleasures’? Dharma Shaastra’s would call this ‘A-dharma’. Constitution would say : Exercise of
Individual Life style Freedom. Society, Community, Media, Religious institutions, devotees – carry their
own views.
3. Thus, we see :
‘Gotra’ Identity is NOT key consideration for ‘Legal Marriage Contract’/ Marriage Certificate/ Legal right
for Property / Tax returns and the like.
The ‘Gotra’ Identity is IMPORTANT and NOT THE ONLY consideration in ‘HINDU/ VEDIC/Marriage’.
The administration of ‘Vivaha-Samskaras’ have found easy path of ‘Contracting ritual to ‘Acharya’ to
perform by ‘Acharya gotra – Sutra - Shaakhaa’ (?!- Is Acharya getting multiple marriages ?!)
The ‘Gotra’ Identity-Shift for ‘Lady’ is at variance in different formats of Hindu/ Vedic Marriage !
The ‘Inherited Gotra Identity reverts to Lady, in case of a ‘Vivaha- Vicheda/ Punarvivaha consideration’.
The < socio-perspective > issue of ‘Gotra’ needs a socio-academic re-education / research on what
constitutes ‘self- Identity’ by each meaning tag associated with the technical term ‘Gotra’.
The < socio-legal perspective > needs positioning < Ancient Dharma- Shaastra > in the new context of <Nation- Constitution ( and Amendments/ Acts and Rules with Amendments, Court Rulings > on ‘What constitutes a ‘ Legal Hindu Marriage, What constitutes inter-religious Marriage, What constitutes a legal Hindu- divorce, What conditions regulate ‘ Next Marriage’ . The paradigm shifts in interpreting ‘ancient Vedic resources, practices in a frame outside of ‘Vedanga – Dharma Shaastras’ using lime-light of < Religion- Anthropology – Language Translation- Scripture Scholarship academic research on what constitutes ‘Gotra: An inseparable part of self- Identity’ by each meaning tag associated in lexicon for the technical term ‘Gotra’.
BVK Sastry
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Surajit Dasgupta
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rag hari
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Raghav ji
1. The subject line being contentious, I submitted my response, with caution as < my personal thoughts gleaned from discussions on such ‘Contemporary Relevant issues’ with elders >.
When Surjeet Dasgupta responds : < If Hindu shastras do not have a provision for divorce, how can they tell what gotra a woman would have after divorce? There are a few instances of separation, of course, none amounting to divorce. > Technically Hindu Shaastras have deliberated and made provisions for women to invoke ‘Divorce ( as Marriage Contract Annulment) / Remarriage (Second Marriage). One would need a broad view and study of all Purushartha Shaastras / Mainly ‘Vatsyayana Kama-Shaastra’ , Artha shaastra for the punishments to women/ men in matters of violating Family norms, Prayaschitta Shaastras and Practices. All Shaastra talks comes in the framework of ‘ Varna- Ashrama / Jati- Kula – Vamsha – Gotra – Vrutti’ framework. Society is dynamic. Values and rule books are meant to give ‘Rule of Dharma across Family – Community – State – Nation and Globally / In this life as well as life after life. If Modern Society / Constitutions of Nations carry a different Society – ground reality- Alignment to Religion – Philosophy- God View ( by different Books ; and here I mean Old Testament Life Perception of One Life- One God- One book’) then Value needs to be delivered by appropriate mechanism.
In days before Rotary dial phone, Letter Communication was the norm. Post Rotary telephone till Cell phone, dialling number by number pad is the new norm. Post advanced technology of Video live- satellite communications, no one expects to enforce the ‘Rotary Dial- Constraints to make a call’. Still Communication is the desired objective. This is modality of how Shaastra puts a rule to deliver Sanatana Dharma Values Locally in context.
2. For Raghav ji’s point, My response below indented marked < BVK Sastry ( 1 to 4 ) : )
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of rag hari
Sent: 24 April 2024 15:54
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Gotra of Wife After Divorce
I have a few humble points to make and my humble apologies since this contradicts insights from Vidwan B.V.K Shastry and request him to correct my lack of knowledge and correct me where I have gone wrong.
BVK Sastry ( ) :
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Sanathana Dhrma says:
Sa-Gothra marriages are not allowed (citing that Rishi of origin would become the same and they are as good as Siblings).
BVK Sastry ( 1) : There is no need to get in to any argument on my views. There is also no need to take my notes below, point wise as any criticism or superior view ! The Path of ‘Dharma’ is ‘walk on razor edge ! More so on ‘Stree Dharma’ which is invoked here and connected to ‘Stree –gotra’.
If ‘Sa-gotra’ marriages were not allowed/ were not solemnised / were not accepted in society, there wold not be the ‘Prayaschitta –Vidhi’s related to such violation.
The statement < ‘Sa-Gotra’ Marriage Not allowed> is a highly misnomer ridden social understanding and practice in filtering Marriage – Alliances. Without going to details, the regulatory –rule - dynamics of ‘ Gotra’ amongst relatives, Transition through Samskaras, is NOT same across Smruti works. There have been several amends and permitted freedoms. How does any traditional practitioner decide which is the ‘Smruti- work’ applicable to their family members ? beyond a matter of faith / convenience/ elders words / Sampradaya / Shishtaachara’? would it be practical now ?
‘Gotra’ does not mark a ‘Blood Relation Based ‘Sibling’ ( Daayadya) relation. Technically the ‘Sibling’ by ‘Blood relation’ is primary consideration for ‘Saa-Pindya/ Aashaucha observations’. It is time that scholars of tradition with authority bring together their learning to clarify the situation. The ‘ rule book of ‘Varna-Ashrama’ observing ‘Brahmana is not the common guidance for ‘ Generic Basket Citizen under the cover of social term- ‘Hindu’.
Unfortunate though, many such technical discussions end up quoting ‘Texts’ out of context and result in heated arguments. So, Seeker of Truth does not go for disturbing ‘Hornet’s nest of Faith’. (Shraddhaa – Jaadya/ Sampradaya / Asdaacharya – vachana- praamaanyaat…)
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A woman's Gothra changes after marriage and her life changes even from the prakruthi (biological) point of view.
BVK Sastry (2 ) : This statement needs lot more caution and attention.
Do you mean to say Shaastra speaks of ‘Gotra’ as a shifting identity, some ‘Abstract unknown force’ applicable to ‘Women’ ? An identity tag, which somehow, mysteriously undergoes a ‘Change’ during ‘Vivaha –Samskara’ ? and carries a ‘DNA level change ‘ ??
Lots of deeper issues to be cleared here! Do we have any Ayurveda Expert who can link such claim of ‘ Gotra’ relation to ‘Child-bearing/ Women Productivity – Fertility’.
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Santhana Dharma does not foresee any kind of separation (as explained by Dr. Korada Subrahmanyam garu ) and the concept of ardhangi.
BVK Sastry (3 ) : Even Christianity does not accept ‘Divorce/ marriage annulment’ if one were to by the Marriage Oath administration . The Human society carries a ground reality of ‘ Rule and Oath violation’- with several instances, documented throughout history.
Brahmana Society provided the Ideal of family by Sri Rama’s life : Eka-patniVrata/ Pativrataa standards to block ‘ Divorce / Marriage Annulment- Thoughts’. But then everyone is Not IDEAL Iconic !
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Western science says:
Do not marry among relatives (citing common root DNA). Also, the offspring are unhealthy if done.
The man's DNA enters the Woman's body after marriage and brings biological changes to her body.
BVK Sastry (4 ) : The marriage among relatives is more common norm than violation of it. The ‘unhealthy offspring’ citing common root DNA’ in cases of ‘marriage amongst relatives’ is a seriously contextualized research. Genetic Science of reproduction does not carry any ‘Gotra’ Markers in DNA !
There is more ‘Hype’ than ‘Truth’ in collating Data with the Facts and ‘Extending it to connect to Dharma-Shastra- Gotras. Gotra match in Tradition is NOT associated anywhere close to a medical health check and compatibility !
DNA Markers - Genetic marker - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_marker
Genetic Marker (genome.gov) https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Genetic-Marker
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Hence, the modern concept of DNA and DNA exchanges is very close to (but subset of) the Gothra concept.
BVK Sastry (5 ) : This needs research – on fundamentals of Gotra mapping to DNA marker ; Branches meeting in air does not mean the roots of Tree are same; not even the sameness of tree !
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Recent research about the concept called "Telegony" shows that the DNA that enters a female body remains even after she remarries (or does not remarry).
BVK Sastry (6 ) : See response on point 5.
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By closely connecting the above dots, I have reasons to believe the native Gothra and the acquired Gothra stay and for healthy offspring, the next husband has to be from Gothras different from the two.
BVK Sastry (7 ) : See response on point 5. ‘Telegony’ seems more a pursuit of ‘Chastity of Women: to the extreme of ‘Thoughts in the mind of Women’. There are references to such extreme thoughts –stray ideas in Indian literature also / Jain works …. What does this have to do with ‘Gotra’ ?
Telegony is a theory of heredity holding that offspring can inherit the characteristics of a previous mate of the female parent; thus the child of a woman might partake of traits of a previous sexual partner. Experiments in the late 19th century on several species failed to provide evidence that offspring would inherit any character from their mother's previous mates.[1] It was superseded by the rediscovery of Mendelian inheritance and the Boveri–Sutton chromosome theory.
Telegony is the idea that a female will be permanently affected when she is first impregnated, since the fetus will pass back characteristics to her that will affect all future offspring, no matter their progeny.[2]
The term was coined by August Weismann from the Greek words τῆλε (tèle) meaning 'far' and γονος (gonos) meaning 'offspring'.[2]
Further information: Partible paternity
The idea of telegony goes back to Aristotle. It states that individuals can inherit traits not only from their fathers, but also from other males previously known to their mothers. In other words, it was thought that paternity could be shared.[3]
Of a supposed Parnassos, founder of Delphi, Pausanias observes, "Like the other heroes, as they are called, he had two fathers; one they say was the god Poseidon, the human father being Cleopompus."[4] Sometimes the result could be twins such as Castor and Pollux, one born divine and one mortal.
The more general doctrine of "maternal impressions" was also known in Ancient Israel. The book of Genesis describes Jacob inducing goats and sheep in Laban's herds to bear striped and spotted young by placing dark wooden rods with white stripes in their watering troughs.[5] Telegony influenced early Christianity as well. The Gnostic followers of Valentinius (circa 100–160 CE) characteristically took the concept from the physiological world into the realm of psychology and spirituality by extending the supposed influence even to the thoughts of the woman. In the Gospel of Philip, a text among those found at Nag Hammadi:
Whomever the woman loves, to him those who are born are like; if her husband, they are like her husband; if an adulterer, they are like the adulterer. Often when a woman sleeps with her husband, but while her heart is with the adulterer with whom she is accustomed to unite, she bears the one whom she bears so that he is like the adulterer.[6]
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BVK Sastry ( 8) : The citation above dates back to year 1897 - Published:01 January
(1) The term telegony has been used to cover cases in which a female A, after mating with a male B, bears to a male C offspring having some resemblance to or some peculiar characteristic of A’s first mate B. The instances of telegony usually cited are (i) cases of thoroughbred bitches when covered by a thoroughbred dog, reverting in their litter to half-breds, when they have been previously crossed by dogs of other races. Whether absolutely unimpeachable instances of this can be produced is, perhaps, open to question, but the strong opinion on the subject among dog-fanciers is at least remarkable; (ii) the case of the quagga noted by Darwin (see 'Origin of Species,’ 4th edition, p. 193), and still more recently (iii) a noteworthy case of telegony in man cited in the ‘British Medical Journal’ (see No. 1834, February 22, 1896, p. 462).
If this is acceptable as a ‘Science – Reference of authenticity’, similar narratives are also there in Ayurveda – on how pregnant women’s thoughts affect the mind –body of the ‘child in womb’. For more exotic issues, the ‘Garbhadaana / Pumsavana’ Samskaras also may be explored in this context.
Summary: Gotra identity links to DNA / Genetics / is a subject for interdisciplinary study; which in its current state has several mismatches of basic tenets and models – mapping.
Till such research on ‘Gotra’ Marker is complete, there is no need to connect Social practice with Constitution (Legality) or Religiosity (Faith) using ‘Modern Science’ which flagrantly violates the basic framework of ‘ Dharma Shaastra Tradition’.
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Regards
BVK Sastry
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Mahamaho. Subrahmanyam Korada
Ph:09866110741
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
Thanks for the detailing.
Some clarifications requested pl.
[ Pl. Excuse if my request seem to be arguing for the devil’s case.Stepping out of comfort zone is difficult.]
Why am I having this question ? How are the following connected in Arjuna’s questions.
What gets priority : Gotra -Protection, Kula Dharma Practice, Vamsha- Abhivruddhi ?
What is Yoga- Upayoga- Viniyoga of these conceptual identities ?
[ Thanks to Dr. Yadu who pitched on this issue – on a Private Personal Call to contemplate on ‘Decision making by Satyavati and Vyasas acceptance for Niyoga; and Bhishma’s defence of state.
I am struggling to understand Arjunas thought process in Gita : 1-39 to 45: Teaching ‘Later sections of Gita as ‘Vedanta talk’ is easy ! So the book says – this way we practice settles the debate.
But connecting First chapter Questions to rest of 17 chapters Discourse-solution is difficult.
All Traditional Commentators Known address –explain Gita with first acceptance of Arjuna’s questions in Totality. All Modern Gita- Discourse providers and Translators are happy picking one sloka as sufficient to solve world’s problems.
Arjuna’s questions remain disconnected with the society dynamics, State, Family Change’s in Society.
The terms which Arjuna uses are: kula-kshayakrutam dosham, paataka, paapam, sanatana-kula-dharma-pranaasha, adharma, - kula-striyah- pranashyanti / streeshu dushtaasu varna-sankarah jaayate, Sankarah narakaaya, pitarah patanti lupta-pind udaka-kriyah, kulaghna, (shaashvata)-jaati-kula-dharma-utsaadana .
Arjuna argues: ‘We are taught like this /told like this /groomed like this to follow binding norms /
We understand elders teaching like this’ to decide ‘DHARMA’- ityanu-shushruma (1-44)
1. On< If पति and पत्नी have different gotras the above injunctions would be rendered null and void>
BVK Sastry (1) : The current practice even in most traditional circles is to < seek alliance from different
gotras> :: a Filtering condition APPLIED PRIOR TO MARRIAGE – PROPOSAL CONSIDERATION.
That is PRE- MARRIAGE GOTRA STATUS OF INDIVIDUAL < Male- Female > Gotra Status
before they QUALIFY TO THE TERM < पति and पत्नी > . Request help to understand the
implication of < above injunctions would be rendered null and void>.
2. On < If a lady goes for a second marriage , ..she would get the gotra of the second husband -- a third
marriage would entail the third husband's gotram . .. In the event of death of her husband , if she
wishes to remain as a widow , she would continue to carry her husband's gotram >
BVK Sastry (2) : 2.a. Does this imply -‘First Marriage’ permanently takes away the ‘Birth Gotra- Identity’ for
the Female ?
2.b. Does it, by extension, imply, the ‘female not willing to marry/ remain a spinster for life’
Would have here ‘Birth Gotra’ for her life? Even if ‘Parent have fallen out of ‘Gotra- status’?
2.c. When Panini provides ‘ Gotra’ to spread across ‘ Three Generations ( Vruddha –
reference) and beyond, How would several present ‘ Gotra – proud families’ reconcile ‘
Fallen Gotra –status of Earlier generations ( even if it be limited to grandparent limit ?) Or
Claim to faithfully pass on their own ‘ Janma –Gotra/ Acquired Transcient Gotra ’ to next
of third generation (Pautra- Prabhruti) ?
2.c. Is this an issue- concern- scopus of Genetic Science- DNA- Blood-Bio-Marker/
Genome Research?
3. On Dharmashastra stipulated conditions of < ..नष्टे मृते प्रव्रजिते क्लीबे पतिते…> for ‘ next marriage
option / Annulment of First Marriage as a pre-condition for next / Second Marriage>
BVK Sastry (3) : The listing as < ..नष्टे मृते प्रव्रजिते क्लीबे पतिते…> for ‘next marriage may need an
explanation and expansion to cover < present day reasons/ Law for awarding Divorce (?)
to include even beyond ‘Adultery- Cheating’ ( Vyabhi-chaara / Para- Purusha/ Stree /
Sanga / Bahu-Patnee/ Patitva). It is addressing the Ethics Core of Society.
The current society reasons to award legal divorce / marriage dissolution are more, even
beyond ‘Adultery- Cheating’ ( Vyabhi-chaara / Para- Sanga) and go to include
3.a) Failure to Live Compatibly ( Mutual Failure of Saaha-charya / Brahma Charyaa /
Dharma Charyaa >
3.b) Prioritization of ‘self-comfort / rights / perceptions’ even when it means overriding
the ‘ sapta-padi vows which both accepted legally –socially- contractually –
witnessed socially through the sacred samskara to get elevated status as
‘Pati- Patni’ / Dampati / Jaayaa- Pati/ Gruhastha / Sumangali / Saubhagyavati /
Shreemati / Kula-Dharma- Patni / Kula- anganaa / Kula Naari / Pati vrataa
Varnaashrami / ’.
Totality of These Meaning covered under the scope of the term –‘ Family’.
In common language usage, the expression ‘Now, We Are Family’ points to this.
Regards
BVK Sastry
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Rajagopalan Soundararajan
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
1. Thanks for pointing to one more interesting complex socially – politically –economically relevant aspects and dimension of < acquired – gotra- pravaram > . The issue is deeply connected to ‘Inheritance Rights and Government Control-Taxes’ hotly debated in the current Indian elections as a ‘Policy Issue’ ??
2. Stated cryptically, this boils down to
Choices for Balancing Life-Identity which are Good, Practical, Affordable, Acceptable and Optimal – by
(A) Sanatana Dharma Shaastra AND/OR (B) National Constitution AND (C) Global Good Practices.
( Regrouping above debate by A +B * C - is left to organizers).
The action her needs Proactive investment to Identify Scholar/s for Education-Support- Outreach to ‘UNDERSTAND – PROTECT From ‘IDENTITY TAGS and ATTACKS ON THIS’.
It is simply a self-deception to ‘Believe Government Should Plan- Invest Regulate’ or ‘Academia –Scholarship in isolated ivory towers on River beaches (Thames or Ganga) – deep forests or mountain tops – isolated from current society, would come up with a solution that society will accept and practice.
3. The question framing for deliberation would be : What role has Gotra Identity (From Vedic Dharma Shaastra) has to play in deciding (LEGAL- SOCIAL – RIGHT coming out of Constitution for ) ‘Citizen- family member by lineage - Right for Inheritance ( for Wealth) and Spiritual Freedom to make choices of religion practice / to be head of a religion-practicing place and community ( Technically Guru- Swamy – Acharya- Purohita- Sastry- Pundit) ( for Salvation- Moksha – Ashrama Adhikara for Yoga- Samskara).
4. What is the relevance – Utility- Application ?
Imagine a situation where ‘Family Priest hood inheritance’ / ‘Next Leader of Matha/ Samsthanam’- needs to be decided; and Parent / Guru has no biological offspring (?) and is compelled to ‘adapt’ or yield the place to someone else who is qualified other wise ? Do we have solution pointers in ‘Ramanuja – Swayam Acharya’ sampradayas here ? There seems to be some practical working guideline in Acharya Madhwa sampradaya, on how to select and train the ‘base pool of potential stock and groom them for leadership’. The ‘Female leadership’ in traditional ‘Mathas’ is still a contentious issue. Pl. help me to understand if there is any traditional guidance on having a ‘Female- Mathadhipati / Shankaracharyaanii’ ?? The deep technicality of ‘Gotra’ is a critical filter here.
Some reading material:
Year 2014 –supreme court landmark judgement.
Supreme Court Judgment in Chidambaram Temple Case: What Next? - Temple Worshippers Society https://templeworshippers.in/supreme-court-judgment-in-chidambaram-temple-case-what-next/
The Property Rights of Hindu Widows: A Study of Colonial and Post-Colonial Reforms (1856-1956) - IJCRT2307547.pdf https://ijcrt.org/papers/IJCRT2307547.pdf
Servants of the Cross (servantsofthecrossmn.com) https://www.servantsofthecrossmn.com/About-Us.php
Explained | The tedious process of adoption - The Hindu https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/explained-the-tedious-process-of-adoption/article65879614.ece
5. The Technicality of ‘dattaka’ - does carry ‘several – family- relation – generational dependencies related to ‘benevolent adapting parents’. The issue becomes more complicated and challenging with the legal and technological innovations !
6. Adoptions in India are governed by two laws — the Hindu Adoption and Maintenance Act, 1956 (HAMA) and the Juvenile Justice Act, 2015. Both laws have their separate eligibility criteria for adoptive parents. Those applying under the JJ Act have to register on CARA’s portal after which a specialised adoption agency carries out a home study report.
One can be adopted legally as a child of God, but until we are glorified in the future resurrection, we are not fully adopted into the family. Although we are the legal heirs, we have not yet come into our inheritance. By way of analogy, a child may inherit millions of dollars in a trust fund, but because of the terms of the will they do not have full access to their inheritance until they turn twenty-one. But the child may have access to some of the inheritance, an allowance for living expenses managed, etc.
7. If the religion viewing lens is shifted, the issue becomes more complex :
If a Father has more than one wife (?- Legal/ Other wise ?? :: Satyavati – Daasharaaja ( Father of Satyavati / Mahabharata – incidence before Satyavati’s Marriage) - Shakuntals’s Dilemma – ‘Raajaano bahu –vallabhah / bahavah putrah’ – or in a different context, children of Sri Krishna staking claim for inheritance ??) and many children, who can stake claim to Throne – Power- Legally ?
If the Parent were a sage, like Yajnavalkya, Vishwamitra shifting the viewing lens,
the issue becomes much more complex : What would I give to my biological off-springs and ‘Knowledge- adapted – Shishya, treated on par with a son (?)’. What would be Wifes stake on husbands wealth before children get to stake a claim ?
8. Suffice to say –‘Modern Adoption’ law has no relation to the ‘Acquired- Gotra- Pravara’ Identity technicalities of Dharma Shaastra tradition.
Change in Gotra status- identity –dynamism needs a more detailed deliberation and public/ debate in the ‘Closed Closets of Dharma-Shaastra’ by Concerned Communities, before raising the issue as a Social- Legal- Religion Nationwide debate. The Community and Public Need a Coherent talk and education on ‘Gotra Identity’.
9. The issue is not as simple as the change in family last names for female - after marriage, a practice very common amongst the family- marriages all over the world ! The ‘Care taking Model of Orphan – Abandoned Child on the road side, by the ‘Compassionate Church’ to care and groom the army of faithful servants of Cross is a much more complex issue. [Adoption Children of God – Romans 8:23-27 - Reading Acts ].
10. The debate needs ‘Intra-Scripture / Multi Religion Debate/ Bahu-Shaastra- Shruta jna – samiti- samvaada:: Schoalrly debate ’- all getting locked to ‘Language of Text- Intention of Text- Pedagogy of Instruction’- what we have been trained- What we are told, What we have used for training as heard from elders :: ‘iti-Anu-Shushruma’ (Gita 1-44) – The ‘Gotra –Sutra’ related - What is ‘Sin and Redemption- Confession – Redemptor / Paapa – Naraka – Praayaschitta - Tapas - Moksha – which all get deeply linked to Gita 18-66: ‘sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja | Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah”.
11. The debate also takes us back to the question in Yaska’s Nirukta, debated by the ‘Rushi-Gana’ :
Who amongst will be qualified the NEXT – Rishi ? to lead us in the future ?
Artha Shaastra addressed this as ‘Training Next King’ – ‘ Raja Kumara/ kumari- Shikshana’.
MBA schools call this as ‘elite training finishing schools where children of current wealthy
industrialist’s and leaders are trained specially for a future LEADERSHIP job-role inheritance ?
(Doon School - ? https://www.doonbusinessschool.com/about/vision-and-mission.html
Beyond Historicity, Pride of asking the most relevant question,(in my limited understanding)
I see only American Corporate- Political Party – Religion Institutional Board Management
Teams addressing and taking consistent investment and action on the essence of Nirukta
question : Who Next ? Why ? How ? What for ? For Whom ? How to Keep the System well
oiled and governed ?
The Western tradition practices this wisdom, in one perspective: The Quakers Movement
(https://www.quakersintheworld.org/quakers-in-action/what/mission ) There are many
comparable organizations which have picked the ‘Women’ issue and made significant
contributions. (Technically VINIYOGA issue, as Dr. Yadu keeps repeating).
Long mail inevitable to point to multiple dimension of complex problem and contemporary relevance.
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rajagopalan Soundararajan
Sent: 26 April 2024 16:33
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Gotra of Wife After Divorce
This leads to another interesting practice followed on the Gotra of a young boy given in adoption to a childless couple. The young boy is initiated into Brahmacharya ashrama by the adopted father with the acquired Gotra pravaram. When the boy grows up and is ready for marriage, the girl is chosen from a family that is neither the Gotra (acquired) nor the native.
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Mahamaho. Subrahmanyam Korada
(2) : 2.a. Does this imply -‘First Marriage’ permanently takes away the ‘Birth Gotra- Identity’ for
the Female ?
2.b. Does it, by extension, imply, the ‘female not willing to marry/ remain a spinster for life’
Would have here ‘Birth Gotra’ for her life? Even if ‘Parent have fallen out of ‘Gotra- status’?
2.c. When Panini provides ‘ Gotra’ to spread across ‘ Three Generations ( Vruddha –
reference) and beyond, How would several present ‘ Gotra
(3) : The listing as < ..नष्टे मृते प्रव्रजिते क्लीबे पतिते…> for ‘next marriage may need an
explanation and expansion to cover < present day reasons/ Law for awarding Divorce (?)
to include even beyond ‘Adultery- Cheating’ ( Vyabhi-chaara / Para- Purusha/ Stree /
Sanga / Bahu-Patnee/ Patitva). It is addressing the Ethics Core of Society.
The current society reasons to award legal divorce / marriage dissolution are more, even
beyond ‘Adultery- Cheating’ ( Vyabhi-chaara / Para- Sanga) and go to include
In common language usage, the expression ‘Now, We Are Family’ points to this.
The concept of 'Family' is slowly losing its 'गन्ध’ । Sons and daughters are also not keeping up their धर्म - too much of money - aping
the western culture etc. may be the cause .
धन्यो’स्मि
Adju.Professor , Dept of Heritage Science and Technology, IIT, Hyderabad
Ph:09866110741
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rag hari
Pranamas to the vidwans and humble seekers of knowledge.