Bad news ?

[K S Kannan]

Some of you may know that four major U.S. book publishers viz.

Hachette Book Group, HarperCollins Publishers, John Wiley & Sons, and Penguin Random House

have filed a lawsuit against Internet Archive, citing copyright violation.

It may be desirable thus that India have its own repository of its rich heritage

of books and manuscripts, and audio and video recordings.

Best perhaps not to rely on the West.

If the rich and the philanthropic of India come together

to sponsor this massive project,

there may be some viable solution.

--

Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Member, Advisory Board, "Prof. A K Singh AURO Chair of Indic Studies", AURO University, Surat.
Member, Expert Committee for Review of Criticism of Indian Knowledge Traditions, Central Sanskrit University (under MoE, GoI), Ganganath Jha Campus, Prayagraj.
Adjunct Faculty, Dept of Heritage Science and Technology, IIT Hyderabad.

Nominated Member, Academic Committee, Kavi Kula Guru Kalidasa University, Ramtek.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

https://sites.google.com/view/kskannan

[Girish Jha]

Dear Prof.Kannan,

I am happy to read your view and welcome it.

Regards,

Girish K.Jha

Professor of Sanskrit(Retd.)

Patna University

Residence: Indirapuram,Ghaziabad(UP)

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[V Subrahmanian]

Prof C.S. Yogananda of Mysuru, who is a member of this forum, has a plan to develop a resource of the type that is being discussed here.  

warm regards

subrahmanian.v

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Some experts in the field must make proper budget estimates so that crowd sourcing other fundraising methods can be thought of.  

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--

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

Senior Director, IndicA

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra

BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.

Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru

BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership

Editor-in-Chief, International Journal of Studies in Public Leadership

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

 

 

[Prabhu]

sarvebhyo namaH

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/26/1166101459/internet-archive-lawsuit-books-library-publishers

". . .Friday, U.S. District Court Judge John G. Koeltl of the Southern District of New York sided with the publishers, saying established law was on their side."

"Koeltl noted that the Internet Archive can still scan and publish copies of books that are in the public domain."

[M V S Siva Prasad]

Respected sir , 

As for as I know this portal had civil servants like IAS Dhaval Patel sir and Retired DGP. KARANAM ARAVINDA RAO sir etc. 

I wish to know their opinion from the view of civil servants for having India's own portal for such a rich heritage . And the way to approach govt for such an initiation from the Govt of India.

Ministry of Culture representatives are also present here. I request their opinions also on this discussion sir. 

I personally in favour this initiation as it gives independent Indian approach for the protection of documents and it's rich cultural heritage. 

IISC , IIIT -HYD , IIT-KANPUR , IIT-M ,etc. Reputed institutions are doing some projects  individually / collectively . If all such institutions comes under the Central Government's initiative project ( ग्रंथ संरक्षणम् - पुस्तकं हस्त भूषणम् ) 

That will be really a good one. 

I personally shared my opinion sir. Please pardon me if any wrong in it.

There were some initiations by govt of India like DLI etc. Instead of making a new one developing DLI is a better one na. I felt like it because a reform is a better one than a new initiation. Instead of buying a new house repair of old house is a better one I feel. 

I personally shared my opinion . Sorry for inconvenience if any.  

Thank you sir. 

Sorry for inconvenience if any.

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[Shashi Joshi]

Kannan sir,

Forget in US, in any country, if a book is actively published, under copyright, and someone makes it freely available, then there will be lawsuits.

And that is okay.

Thanks,

~ Shashi

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Thank you,
Shashi

[K S Kannan]

Dear Joshi ji,

I am not supporting any copyright violation.

But we must take due care when, in the wake of punishing copyright violators,

those who do not are also immensely inconvenienced perchance as to just close shop!

Laws sometimes work in weird ways: the pendulum often swings from one extreme to the other.

The backlash should not get to be a flash-flood that washes out even the legitimate transactors.

Should Archive.org close suddenly, for whatever reason, would we all be at sea, caught unawares,

for want of (uncontemplated) viable alternatives?

My focus was, in fine, towards developing some lasting indigenous repository

that depends not upon the whims and fashions of Western Indologists or the legal eagles there.

Should we continue to be beholden to Jstor - that they can dole out articles that have appeared in BORI

and one or two other Indian journals? It is just a reminder for bringing about autonomous functionaries here

that can be, and ought to be, responsible for the treasures of our own vast heritage.

And finally, even if Archives.org should get full protection,

should we not develop the maturity to secure our own precious instruments?

I for one am deeply dismayed even wrt the fact that many of our govt. functionaries

still latch on to gmail in their governmental, or even private, transactions

- fating thereby many confidential matters to leakages and other vulnerabilities.

The question is : Ought "Atma-nirbhar Bharat" be confined to some miniscule/limited domains?:

Is our heritage the last or the least in the list?

Regards,

KSKannan

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[Raj Kombiyil]

Om Namah Shivaya, Dr Kannan:

Absolutely a must that we have our own repository for digitised books, manuscripts + AV recordings. I am sure it will materialize soon if people of your stature and other scholars in the group petition our Hon PM for storage accessible 24×7. We shouldn't store our knowledge on western portals.

Thank you & pranam,

Raj

--

[Gadadhar G]

Can Dharma Wiki be used for this purpose - https://dharmawiki.org/index.php/Main_Page

regards,

G Gadadhar

[BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)]

Namaste

 

1.  On copyright law and violations at India, there are multiple laws operating in their own silos!

 

The grant of copyright is a limited monopoly. It is limited in the `scope' of the rights granted and in terms of `time'. In India, copyright on a literary work is provided for the lifetime of the author plus sixty years after his death. In case of joint authorship, the sixty years period is calculated from the beginning of the calendar year following the year in which the last (surviving) author dies. Copyright with respect to photographs, cinematographic works and sound recordings spans for 60 years of its first publication. In order to strike a balance between the society's need for access to knowledge and the need to rewarding creators, limited uses of copyright protected works are permitted without authors consent. These are called `fair use' of copyright. Section 52 of Indian Copyright Act permits certain activities which do not amount to infringement. Important in this `exception list' are reproduction of literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works for educational purposes, e.g. research, review etc., and reporting in newspapers, magazines and periodicals etc.

 

1.1:  How to legally battle out a question like : Who holds copyright of  ‘Abhijnana Shakuntalam’?

 

- Can not argue ‘ Kalidasa’ ! for the author is no more with us to make the claim; time barred !

 

- Cannot argue that a ‘Copy right  of a ‘Certain Print format – with Commentary – Translation of original’ also covers copyright for the ‘Original’ !  There is no such  ‘ included copyright’ legal enforcement provision.

 

- Cannot argue that a new formatted –different media version of ‘Abhijnana Shakuntalam’ is different from ‘ Original Copyright (-able/ ed) work’  Or ‘drawn from public source’ ?!   

 

What then is ‘a specific © symbol pointing to in the print text of ‘Abhijnana Shakuntalam’ ? I do  not know .

 

 

2.   May  links ( and reports ) below could help to get a better picture on ground reality.

 

a) study on copyright piracy in india.pdf –

    A 73 page-        Government of India sponsored study Commission Report of year 1999,  

     from National Productivity Council (NPC) - Department of Education, Ministry of      

     Human Resource Development.

 

b) Copyright Judgement in India: Some famous cases - Corpbiz Advisors https://corpbiz.io/learning/copyright-judgement-in-india/

 

 

3.   Bottom line: Ethics is not a regulator of economic offense :  On the legislation front, copyright laws in India are comparable to those of many developed countries. In order to keep a pace with the contemporary technological developments, India's copyright legislation had been amended from time to time, e.g. in 1983, 1984 and 1994, since its commencement in 1958. The punishments for copyright violations had been made progressively more stringent. The present law is also almost in full conformity with the Uruguay Round Agreement on Trade Related Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPs).

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[Mahesh Kulkarni,Thane, India]

Respected sir

What does it mean by following statement:

"Koeltl noted that the Internet Archive can still scan and publish copies of books that are in the public domain."

--

[Amba Kulkarni]

Thank you Prof. Kannan for initiating this, and also for clear articulation of the need of the hour.

Best,

Amba

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--

आ नो भद्रा: क्रतवो यन्तु विश्वत: ll
Let noble thoughts come to us from every side.
- Rig Veda, I-89-i.

Professor
Department of Sanskrit Studies
University of Hyderabad

Prof. C.R. Rao Road 

Hyderabad-500 046

(91) 040 23133802(off)

http://scl.samsaadhanii.in

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/scl

http://tdil-dc.in/san/

http://sanskrit.uohyd.ac.in/faculty/amba

[M V S Siva Prasad]

Respected Kannan sir ,

Your opinion is really acceptable . Law works sometimes in a different manner. We can't predict it. And we can't change the verdict when it's given in USA. 

The legal system of USA differs with our indian system and it's highly strong in USA.

 In India on Delhi university materials  copyrights issue supreme court of India favoured the students for the upliftment of education  . 

Our system had humanitarian concerns also along with the rules and regulations. But we can't predict verdicts like this in USA system .  

Your suggestion to have indian archive is in the path of Prevention is better than cure sir.  

Although may or may not be suitable but iam citing a case happened in USA regarding a  Torrent site Demonoid.com. 

It also had faced a case of copyright violations. 

After the verdict on demoniod.com  not only the concerned torrent site several torrent sites were banned which had alot of data. 

That affected alot of people / students / others etc. who were dependent on those sites for their educational / professional / business needs. 

It may happen like that to archive website also. The foresight of kannan sir is really good. The thought of Indian Archive is really necessary. 

If once the site is banned we not only loose data we loose resource libraries also where we can search for the paperback copies or manuscripts etc . That will be like going to hell after golden era. Now in search of any classical indian literature we are using majorly archive website only. If we loose it we loose alot .

Several institutions which have scanned copies of books were shared in Archive website only. If we loose it we loose all those resources. 

The intervention of govt is really needed because those scanning centers which scanned several books and manuscripts etc were sponsored by the govt.of India. 

Indian archive is really necessary sir. 

Thanking you.

Sorry for inconvenience if any. 

Namaskaraha.

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[Sathya Narayanan N]

Govt seems to have some kind of archive here.

https://indianculture.gov.in/ebooks

 Govt institutions can reprint older books and upload here.

Their are many mini archives.org in higher edn institutions. They might contain copyright books. It might lead to some sort of problems.

regards

Sathya

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[K S Kannan]

That Archives.org casts a wide net is obvious.

There have been instances of books published long ago (a century ago easily),

available in Archive.org, formerly, but disappearing suddenly without trace.

Earlier, there used to be a note - that certain books have been withdrawn from circulation, etc.

No more. Now, they are just not there: and none to complain to, none to help.

The larger issue of Gmail and Google, & Co. etc. is also obvious.

The day must come - sooner than later - when the GoI shows the door to these giants,

as it did to TikTok (& as many countries are realising belatedly, and closing it down),

but devising providing first an Indian alternative..

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[Sahishnu Pārāsharya]

Dear colleagues,

It is my pleasure to inform you that the newly established "Deshik" Centre for Research and Archiving (CRA) [estd. 2022] at Dr. B. R. Ambedkar University Delhi (AUD) with the financial support of the Arts and Culture Department of the Delhi Government (Govt. of National Capital Territory of Delhi) is currently working to setup the Deshik Archives - which is focused on the decolonization of ideas and knowledge systems - which will host collections of intellectual works, manuscripts, documents, and old and new publications relating to Indian knowledge traditions, including audio-visual resources. For now, this includes resources in Sanskrit, Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi and Bangla (our Fellows are proficient in these only, at the moment). This would extend to important works and resources in European languages as well, whether in translation or in their originals. Furthermore, these Archives will also attempt to comprehensively document the literature and debates associated with various decolonial movements around the globe and provide access for Hindi and other Indian languages.

I will post more details on the BVP forum as and when they become available, but for now, the following points may be kindly noted:

1. The difficulties of using Internet Archive are well-noted. There also exist some private efforts (like @sanskritmanuscript on Telegram) which attempt to keep such documents together. We can attempt to archive these collections on the Deshik Archives. As for copyright issues, I am told that our centre will attempt tie-ups with major publishers to negotiate digital access. Since I am handling the Sanskrit section at the moment, I welcome any members on BVP and elsewhere (especially archivists and librarians) to get in touch with me, so we can coordinate and collect manuscripts and resources to be added to the archive. Once the Archives are online, users will also have the option to upload new resources. 

2. The centre is working on publishing the inaugural issue of its tri-annual journal Bhashiki (Journal of Language & Archiving, in Hindi) dedicated to Indian languages and Indian knowledge systems. A twin journal in English is planned to be launched soon thereafter. Once more details are available, I will post our calls for papers. Our guiding theme is decolonization as it relates to ideas, epistemologies, and knowledge systems as a whole.

3. The centre also hosts a number of academic events in Delhi, notably its public lecture series (Vyakhyan Mala) at the India International Centre. The first and inaugural lecture was delivered by Acharya Radhavallabh Tripathi (Sanskritist) and the second was delivered by Rajeev Bhargava (political theorist). The centre also hosts research-intensive one-day seminars named "Vakovakyam" on specific themes and questions and led by specific invited scholars. Three such Vakovakyam sessions were held between Sept 2022 and March 2023, each led by Probal Roy Chowdhury, Manindra Nath Thakur, Purushottam Agrawal respectively. The centre also hosts two-day to three-day academic conferences on larger themes. If you wish to remain updated on these events, please do send me your email IDs and phone numbers privately, I will add these to our broadcast list.

I am available over email at sbhattacharyya @ aud.ac.in, if you have any questions. I am also on Telegram (@sahishnubhattacharyya) for those who prefer Telegram.

स्वस्तिकामः

Shrī Sahishnu Bhattāchāryya, MSc (Osnabrück),

Academic Fellow (Indian Knowledge Systems),
Centre for Research and Archiving (CRA),
Dr. B. R. Ambedkar University Delhi (AUD),
Lothian Road, Kashmere Gate, Delhi -110006