वैदिक संस्कृत सीखें | Learn Vedic Sanskrit
उज्ज्वल राजपूत
Vishal J
मक्षू प्रत्नां वाचं प्र वोचाम नविष्ठया वाचा। सचस्व नः। We'll soon teach Vedic Sanskrit through Hindi. Join us! हम जल्द ही हिन्दी माध्यम से वैदिक संस्कृत सिखाएंगे। Registration: https://forms.gle/s53ziH6dFZFJ1Vmx8 WhatsApp group (for announcements etc.): https://chat.whatsapp.com/Ctlb3x9XyDC... YouTube: @LearnVedicSanskrit
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उज्ज्वल राजपूत
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
Now I am getting confused totally on the claims below !
a) What is this pedagogy- claim : ‘We'll soon teach Vedic Sanskrit through Hindi. Join us!’
b) What is this Pre-Requisite setting ? By whose authority ? In short what is ‘VEDA? What is SANSKRIT ?? What is the limit of ‘Some Familiarity’ ?? :
Comprehension of Hindi along with some familiarity with Devanāgarī symbols is the only requirement (which is met by most Hindi speakers from India).
And Why are traditional speakers keeping ‘Bhishma –Silence (the Indian comparable of Sphinx silence ) on such claims on this forum ?
Sphinx - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx
In Greek tradition, the sphinx is a treacherous and merciless being with the head of a woman, the haunches of a lion, and the wings of a bird. According to Greek myth, she challenges those who encounter her to answer a riddle, and kills and eats them when they fail to solve the riddle. This deadly version of a sphinx appears in the myth and drama of Oedipus.
In Egyptian mythology, in contrast, the sphinx is typically depicted as a man (an androsphinx (Ancient Greek: ανδρόσφιγξ)), and is seen as a benevolent representation of strength and ferocity, usually of a pharaoh. Unlike Greek or Levantine/Mesopotamian ones, Egyptian sphinxes were not winged.
Powers of Sphinx: https://therhetoricofmagic.com/magic/the-four-powers-of-the-sphinx-know-will-dare-keep-silent/
Regards
BVK Sastry
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Vishal J
K S Kannan
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Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor (Retd.), IIT-Madras.
Member, Expert Committee for Review of Criticism of Indian Knowledge Traditions, Central Sanskrit University (under MoE, GoI), Ganganath Jha Campus, Prayagraj.
Adjunct Faculty, Dept of Heritage Science and Technology, IIT Hyderabad.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.
Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit
University, Bangalore.
Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The
National Colleges, Bangalore.
K S Kannan
Aditya Asopa
2. "(In short what is ‘VEDA? What is SANSKRIT?? What is the limit of ‘Some Familiarity’ ??)"
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Aditya Asopa
1. Please be clear that ‘I am not hostile to any one’; rather I try to help. Common interest: Language Standards.
If you think asking serious questions is ‘hostile’, please let me know. Pl. read through the long response.
I will stop responding on contentious issues. If you feel that I am missing some-thing of critical necessity,
please educate me. It is never too late to learn new things and make course correction.
2. Responding specifically to your questions : As you say < Engaging in Good Faith>.
There is a simple rule in education : Teacher should teach what is right and useful.
Teacher cannot shirk away responsibility in teaching ‘incorrect – inappropriate- on subject over which they
Have less competence’. Don’t Do harm by confusion’ is the simplest expression of this.
Now to three questions raised b you:
2.1: Question: 1. Could you please elaborate on what do you mean by "by whose authority"?
2.1: Response: The clarity on ‘Vedic Sanskrit’ reveals answer to ‘Whose authority’- Tradition or Oriental.
Elaboration can be built on basic clarity of terms.
First let us set the reference of this exchange on defining ‘Vedic Sanskrit’. If your first class on Vedic Sanskrit came from A.A. MacDonnell Language models, deep linked to German linguists studies, you will certainly not like my response. And I have no intention to keep rebutting responses on ‘Oriental Model of Vedic Studies’- with the punch line – ‘During Vedic times…’ which is an oxymoron statement. In Traditional frame, Vedas are Time –history Transcendent; and on ‘Yuga-scale’ with big zero’s in front of significant.
In Oriental studies, the time lock is under some five millennia BCE.
What is the proposition –clarity ? ‘ in ‘Learn Vedic Sanskrit’. What do you desire to Teach ? Why ? how ?
Is it tradition technicality compliant ? Or is it Postcolonial Academic model ? Or ‘secular- for all’ mode ?
What is Vedic Sanskrit ? – Classical Technicality uses the term ‘Chanda’s’.
Reference is to ‘Mantras as Vision, Sacred, Unalterable.
Used for deployment in ‘Yajna, Yoga, Temple worship.
Teaching this ‘Chandas’=Vedic Sanskrit (?) requires ‘Bhashaa’ pre-qualification.
‘Chandas’ needs to be studied as augmented discipline with Six‘ Vedangas.
Tradition sets other modes of learning conditions, life style, usage.
‘Chandas’ is NOT –HISOTORIC/ Time Bound.
Violate these conditions- It will not be Vedic Sanskrit !
What is Vedic Sanskrit ? – Oriental / Colonial Interpreted Technicality using the term ‘PIE’ /Buddhist/
Hybrid Sanskrit/ Prakrit Local language source and fabricated artificial construct.
Reference is to ‘Prior Language stratifications’ – historic constructs,
Nothing to do with Yoga or Vedanta, Ritual, Religion.
Vedic Sanskrit Document is a historic ‘panegyric’ in some archaic language.
Vedic Sanskrit Document is historically, philologically amenable to meddle !
Vedanta – from ‘Upanishads of Veda is a ‘philosophical appendage’.
Therefore , defining ‘Whose authority’ invoked in to your teaching model is critical.
There are several ‘unanswered questions, confusions’.
But one thing is clear. The models are distinctly different like ‘Lions and Tigers’.
‘Oriental / Colonial Interpreted Technicality’ is like ‘Studying ‘Corpus of Veda as ‘Corpse of historic
literature’. This is violation and negation of ‘everything that one associates with ‘Bharateeyataa’.
Key issues unresolved : Samskruth Language Modelling. The ‘Paninian grammar rule cannot be invoked
per teachers comfort level and fancy ! and selectively violate the integrity of ‘Chandas- Bhashaa’.
Sayana Madhava Vedic commentary, written for ‘Karma-Kanda’ cannot be inappropriately invoked for ‘Vedanta Jnana- Kanda’! .
Simple historic fact : All three major Vedanta schools were prior to ‘Sayana Veda –Bhashya’;
Sayana Madhava was very well acquainted with ‘Vedanta model – use of Samskrutham for Veda- commentary and language niceties between ‘Chandas’ and Bhashaa’; and ‘Veda for Yajna- model – use of Samskrutham for Veda- Prayoga and language niceties between ‘Chandas’- Bhashaa and Loka- Bhashaa/ local Bhashaa’.
And all this is stated upfront by Sayana Madhava in the ‘ Upodghata’- in clearest possible exposition of text.
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2.2: Question: 2. "(In short what is ‘VEDA? What is SANSKRIT?? What is the limit of ‘Some Familiarity’ ??)"
I think the answers to these questions are obvious.
2.2: Response: Sorry ! Answers are NOT OBVIOUS ! Nor Converging in different models of ‘VEDIC STUDIES’.
For Vedanta schools and Practicing religion tradition: Vedas are ‘Eternal, Cosmic, Universal, Divine’- Sound structures.
For Darshana –schools, Veda is ‘Shaastra- Darshana – Authority’. Inviolable Shabda Pramana.
For Oriental schools : Veda is historic, tribal, panegyric babble and folk literature ! Prayers of migrants (?)
For Secular schools : Veda is ‘Brahminical cunning constructions’.
When ‘Veda’ –clarity is not there, ‘SAMSKRUTHAM: The Language of CHANDAS (Universe/ Darshana/ Mantra) and ‘Samskrutham – Bhahsaa - as LANGUAGE OF Learned responsible user are not same; Yet Panini- Patanjali – Yaska and all Acharyas – Shaastrakaaras are ‘crystal clear on What ‘Samskrutham is as ‘Shaastra- Yoga- Samvada –Bhashaa’.
‘Bhashaa is Tool to understand –access – get benefit of - deploy –vision ‘Chandas’.
When ‘Veda’ is not obvious, when ‘language of ‘Veda’ is NOT obvious and fuzzy, then how do you set ‘ some familiarity’ as a prequalification for ‘Veda –Samskruth-studies’ by a ‘local language script’ ??
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2.3: Question: 3. Could you explain what you mean by "traditional speakers" and why would you assume that the original poster is not a "traditional speaker"?
If you feel that the teacher is not learned enough or the course is not rigorous, maybe you could point out nicely why you suspect that.
Engaging in good faith.
2.3: Response: Again < engaging in good faith>, I do not want to make remarks on someone who has made efforts this far in ‘Samskruth – Outreach’. I am not making any assumption. I appreciate all efforts of all who are working hard for keeping Samskruth afloat.
Traditional Speaker is one who is proficient in Social and Shaastra usage of ‘ Bhashaa’ by Panini Standards ( marked as ‘ Shishta / Sadhu –Shabda Prayoga’.
Today , All ‘Sanskrit Speakers’ are NOT hitting the ‘Panini Language Standard’ in all cases. So, as in statistical models, 60% compliance is tolerated as ‘PASS LEVEL CODE FOR SANSKRIT’. The benefit is keeping Samskruth Interest afloat and alive.
The qualification to speak ‘mama naama – tava naama’ – sambhashana – Saamjika Samskrutham is not enough to venture in to the ‘Vedic Sanskrit’- either in traditional or oriental model.
‘Digital Samskruth’ again is a new threat –challenge that has sufficiently damaged the ‘core fabric of ‘ voice Primary language’ to ‘become a Romanized script-representation- IPA voice - processing mechanism’ with hype claims on AI deliverables!
Think calmly : Is it possible to ‘lock any Indic Brahmi language – LLM – or MT (Machine Translation) design in to ‘Latin Grammar- English like – character set boundaries’ which defines ‘ Computer- Samskruth- eco system’ ( I am deliberately not precise in the expression here; and sorry for that). I hope you understand the deeper nature of the problem.
I am and have been an active part and parcel of ‘Samskrutha Sambhashanam’ programs right from its inception. I am appreciative of the value the course offers social pride and confidence it builds to ‘social ethos in prayer –worship scenario’. There is a need to review and come up with new context sensitive and ‘Panini Framework appropriate Language Model’ in to social awareness.
For this work, why do Native enthusiasts look for a ‘ beyond Bharath- support’ ? and happy to adapt ‘short models of Local language instruction sets ? Samskruth Scholarship was efficiently delivered in ALL Indic Brahmi languages in NON- ENGLISH ECO SYSTEM of Desi- Prakruth languages for centuries. Why is that model deprecated ?
If social Samskruth interest is to have a ‘English Similar Sanskrit- For Social usage ’, well it can be done; but calling it as ‘Panini rule compliant’ is not correct. What is the purpose ??
Every Indic Brahmi Language (Classical Tamil) had clear design guidance to keep desi language purity by Panini – ‘Bhashaa-rule’ guidance. For all good reasons, English – Modern schooling language –reforms erased all that; introduced ‘anglicised Desi –Bhashaa – learning model; and now upgraded to ‘AI – generated models and Teacher impersonating AI Bots ! with Machine generated speech.
So ‘Samskruth deprecation and dilution is systematically made ‘in-house’ – inside nation. Why is this ground reality out of sight in scholarly discussion ?
Take for example the teaching of ‘Shuddha Marathi or Odia or Telugu’ as Local language locked to ‘English (Social model) by disconnect to ‘Source Model of Samskrutham’. What are the consequences? .
Is this being given attention in ‘ Mother tongue – Education at Schools’ and implemented in any school at any part of nation for any one indic language? The ‘marks oriented syllabus- exam system places ‘5 marks for classical language scholarship- text studies:: Right from early high school to arts graduation’; Teachers lack training –motivation –opportunity –precision of language grammar needed for text teaching. Students are happy to ignore this ‘ 5 marks’ and focus on ‘ getting ‘ pass marks out of 95. The story of first language-Sanskrit teaching is another Pandora’s box.
There are different multiple dimensions of challenge that have come up in learning ‘Bhashaa’- itself properly. These are questions that need to be answered by those consuming ‘Public tax money as guardians of classical language –standards ’. That would be too much to ask for. So, I have preferred to keep friendship than become pain in a** by raising ‘heart burning - uncomfortable issues. Many know it’; but the scenario is like ‘ Dhrutarashtra sabha, where Draupadi was dran and disrobed’. We wait for that Yogeswara to make the next avatara- to save the language of his teaching in ‘Gita- Samvada’.
Just remember one thing. In current period,
The Panini - Bhashaa pedagogy foundation of Panini
- critical pre-qualification to ‘engage with Vedic Studies’
- critical pre-qualification for All Indic Language- Classical Standard and Purity maintenance
Is ‘deprecated’ ; and is substituted by inappropriate language –grammar models’.
This is the ‘ in-house damage to the classical heritage language of India’ and needs ‘ In-house correction’.
This is work which cannot be delegated to an agency beyond ‘ Traditional Teams’ : A fast aging and slipping out genre in India’.
Regards
BVK Sastry
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abhishek prasad
Sincere Question:
1. It is said that there is no excuse for mistakes we make. We have to pay the price for each and every act we perform on here ; that may be good or evil. We are just all the manifestations of all karma done by.
2. Or can we say that Human Endeavour is far stronger than Sanchit Karma (Collected Ones) or Prarabdha? Through Human endeavor we can lessen our past collected karma or may be eradicate (root out) htese past deeds from the scratch and get liberated.
Which out of two is more powerful and stronger ... The Luck (Prarabdh) or the Human endeavor?
As my understanding says that human endeavor is far stronger than all luck or past karmas.
Please do enlighten me rightly on this...
Regards.
Abhishek
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
1. You are right : <.human endeavour is far stronger than all luck or past karmas > .
This is Gita : 18-53 : Keeping focus on ‘Kuru’- DO.
Don’t end up in procrastination with Knowledge.
3-20. Action is basis of success output. (80%).
18-14: Do your 80% aiming for success. Trust Nature and leave 20% to ‘Greater Will of Universe’.
Don’t depend upon 20% wish of ‘Greater will of Universe’ and ignore ‘80%’- self work.
Regards
BVK Sastry
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