Ganapati to Vakratunda

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Bandhavi Brahma

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Jun 11, 2020, 12:10:40 AM6/11/20
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Pranam to all scholars,

I have read that in the early times, the names Ganesha and Ganapati applied for Indra, like in आ तू न इन्द्र Rgveda Ganesha suktam. But when names like Vakratunda and Ekadanta appear for example in Ganapati Atharvashirsha mantra, it becomes more tailored for Ganesha in the Parvatiputra Vinayaka form with elephant head. I read that western indologists consider Ganapati Atharvashirsha to be late origin from even 16th century CE. How is it still having udattadi svaras in such a case? Does Shri Adi Shankaracharya mentions Ganapatya tradition in his works?

My question is are there any known works or commentaries tracing a connection between vedic devata like Indra and modern form of Ganapati? Are names like Vakratunda or Ekadanta applied for any vedic devata directly, in any purana or tantras? Please direct me to works on Ganapatya which explore its connections with veda, similar to other works which do the same for Shaiva and Vaishnava.

Thanks to all in advance and namaskar,
Bandhavi

Nagaraj Paturi

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Jun 11, 2020, 12:50:51 AM6/11/20
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha#First_appearance 

Ganesha appeared in his classic form as a clearly-recognizable deity with well-defined iconographic attributes in the early 4th to 5th centuries CE.[155] Some of the earliest known Ganesha images include two images found in eastern Afghanistan. The first image was discovered in the ruins north of Kabul along with those of Surya and Shiva. It is dated to the 4th-century.[156] The second image found in Gardez has an inscription on Ganesha pedestal that has helped date it to the 5th-century.[156] Another Ganesha sculpture is embedded in the walls of Cave 6 of the Udayagiri Caves in Madhya Pradesh. This is dated to the 5th-century.[156] An early iconic image of Ganesha with elephant head, a bowl of sweets and a goddess sitting in his lap has been found in the ruins of the Bhumara Temple in Madhya Pradesh, and this is dated to the 5th-century Gupta period.[157][156][158] Other recent discoveries, such as one from Ramgarh Hill, are also dated to the 4th or 5th centuries.[156] An independent cult with Ganesha as the primary deity was well established by about the 10th century.[155] Narain summarises the lack of evidence about Ganesha's history before the 5th century as follows:[155]

What is inscrutable is the somewhat dramatic appearance of Gaṇeśa on the historical scene. His antecedents are not clear. His wide acceptance and popularity, which transcend sectarian and territorial limits, are indeed amazing. On the one hand, there is the pious belief of the orthodox devotees in Gaṇeśa's Vedic origins and in the Purāṇic explanations contained in the confusing, but nonetheless interesting, mythology. On the other hand, there are doubts about the existence of the idea and the icon of this deity" before the fourth to fifth century A.D. ... [I]n my opinion, indeed there is no convincing evidence [in ancient Brahmanic literature] of the existence of this divinity prior to the fifth century.

The evidence for more ancient Ganesha, suggests Narain, may reside outside Brahmanic or Sanskritic traditions, or outside geocultural boundaries of India.[155] Ganesha appears in China by the 6th century, states Brown,[159] and his artistic images in temple setting as "remover of obstacles" in South Asia appear by about 400 CE.[160] He is, states Bailey, recognised as goddess Parvati's son and integrated into Shaivism theology by early centuries of the common era.[161]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha#Possible_influences  


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The roots of Ganesha worship have been traced back to 3,000 BCE since the times of Indus Valley Civilisation.[164][165] In 1993, a metal plate depiction of an elephant-headed figure, interpreted as Ganesha, was discovered in Lorestan Province, Iran, dating back to 1,200 BCE.[166][167] First terracotta images of Ganesha are from 1st century CE found in Ter, Pal, Verrapuram, and Chandraketugarh. These figures are small, with an elephant head, two arms, and chubby physique.[168] The earliest Ganesha icons in stone were carved in Mathura during Kushan times (2nd–3rd centuries CE).[168]  


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganesha#Vedic_and_epic_literature 

Two verses in texts belonging to Black YajurvedaMaitrāyaṇīya Saṃhitā (2.9.1)[182] and Taittirīya Āraṇyaka (10.1),[183] appeal to a deity as "the tusked one" (Dantiḥ), "elephant-faced" (Hastimukha), and "with a curved trunk" (Vakratuṇḍa). These names are suggestive of Ganesha, and the 14th century commentator Sayana explicitly establishes this identification.[184] The description of Dantin, possessing a twisted trunk (vakratuṇḍa) and holding a corn-sheaf, a sugar cane,[185] and a club,[186] is so characteristic of the Puranic Ganapati that Heras says "we cannot resist to accept his full identification with this Vedic Dantin".[187] However, Krishan considers these hymns to be post-Vedic additions.[188] Thapan reports that these passages are "generally considered to have been interpolated". Dhavalikar says, "the references to the elephant-headed deity in the Maitrāyaṇī Saṃhitā have been proven to be very late interpolations, and thus are not very helpful for determining the early formation of the deity".[189]  


Stories about Ganesha often occur in the Puranic corpus. Brown notes while the Puranas "defy precise chronological ordering", the more detailed narratives of Ganesha's life are in the late texts, c. 600–1300.[197] Yuvraj Krishan says that the Puranic myths about the birth of Ganesha and how he acquired an elephant's head are in the later Puranas, which were composed of c. 600 onwards. He elaborates on the matter to say that references to Ganesha in the earlier Puranas, such as the Vayu and Brahmanda Puranas, are later interpolations made during the 7th to 10th centuries.[198]

In his survey of Ganesha's rise to prominence in Sanskrit literature, Ludo Rocher notes that:[199]

Above all, one cannot help being struck by the fact that the numerous stories surrounding Gaṇeśa concentrate on an unexpectedly limited number of incidents. These incidents are mainly three: his birth and parenthood, his elephant head, and his single tusk. Other incidents are touched on in the texts, but to a far lesser extent.



Lawrence W. Preston considers the most reasonable date for the Ganesha Purana to be between 1100 and 1400, which coincides with the apparent age of the sacred sites mentioned by the text.[204]  

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Nagaraj Paturi
 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.


Director,  Inter-Gurukula-University Centre , Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
 
 
 

G S S Murthy

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Jun 11, 2020, 1:19:26 AM6/11/20
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Valmiki Ramayan which refers to the birth of Kumara makes no reference to Ganesha. The only possible reference which occurs is not complimentary. "विनायकाश्च शाम्यन्ति" in phalashruti.
Thanks and regards,
Murthy



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Nagaraj Paturi

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Jun 11, 2020, 1:47:09 AM6/11/20
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The historical studies cited from the Wiki page already considered all such aspects, Sri Murthy-ji.

Historical studies take to older dates and texts as shown in that summary of the studies.  

K S Kannan

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Jun 11, 2020, 2:14:20 AM6/11/20
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No reference in Kalidasa either.

V Subrahmanian

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Jun 11, 2020, 2:23:47 AM6/11/20
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On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM G S S Murthy <murt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Valmiki Ramayan which refers to the birth of Kumara makes no reference to Ganesha. The only possible reference which occurs is not complimentary. "विनायकाश्च शाम्यन्ति" in phalashruti.

Sir, such 'vinayaka-s' in plural is there in the Srimadbhagavatam too, one instance is where post-Putana death, the gopi-s did a 'purification' ritual to the baby Krishna (owing to the physical contact with Putana), where they chant - 'let the vinayaka-s go away'.   

From this we conclude that these vinayaka-s are evil spirits. The benign Vinayaka for which the method of puja, even the modaka, etc. are stated in the Yajnavalkya Smriti.  

Also, the Mahabharata is believed by many to have been scribed by Ganesha, the elephant-faced god.  Madhvas hold this belief.  In the Villi Bharatam, by a Tamil (stated to be Ramanuja school), also includes this in his work. Also Madhvacharya has given a place for Ganesha in his Mandukya Upanishad Bhashya, as a presiding deity in one of the three states (of waking, etc.). This is my understanding.

1.       Balakanda, sarga 22, verse 11:

image.png

As they followed sage Viswamitra spreading radiance, they looked like sons of the god of fire, (Skanda and Visakhu) following the incomprehensible Siva.  

Not sure why two sons of Shiva are admitted and how the other is not Ganesha.  If any further information is available on the identity of the 'other', welcome.  Why is it that the above two are not popular in parlance?


regards
subrahmanian.v
Thanks and regards
Murthy

Hnbhat B.R.

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Jun 11, 2020, 2:26:04 AM6/11/20
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The reference in the mantra 

गणानां त्वा गणपतिं हवामहे कविं कवीनामुपमश्रवस्तमम्। 
ज्येष्ठराजं ब्रह्मणां  ब्रह्मणस्पत आ नः शृण्वन्नूतिभिः सीद सादनम्।।

is said to the Vedic deity Brihaspati addresed as ब्रह्मणस्पते and not to the Puranic deity Ganapathi.

Thank you

K S Kannan

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Jun 11, 2020, 2:40:21 AM6/11/20
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Any parallel of kumArAviva in the Ramayana with
kumArAv adyApi dviradavadana-kraun"cadalanau ?



--
Dr. K.S.Kannan  D.Litt.

​Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.

Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.

Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.

Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.

Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.

Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.

Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit University, Bangalore.

Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The National Colleges, Bangalore.

shankara

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Jun 12, 2020, 2:24:42 AM6/12/20
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Namaste,

Giving below details of a few articles on the origin and evolution of Ganesa.

Ganesa and Ganapati Cult in India and South East Asia by BN Puri 1978-79 (Rtam Journal)

Evolution of Ganesa by Yuvraj Krishan 1994 (East and West journal)
The Origin of Ganapati Cult by SM Michael 1983 (Asian Folklore Studies)
The Origins of Gaṇesa by Yuvraj Krishnan 1982 (Artibus Asiae)
For a detailed bibliography refer to 'Ganesa Lord of Obstacles Lord of Beginnings' by Paul B Courtright

regards
shankara


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Bandhavi Brahma

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Jun 14, 2020, 12:23:05 AM6/14/20
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Thanks to all scholars for kindly giving useful references on this topic.

Interesting question that Subrahmanian ji has raised about two sons स्कन्द and विशाखु (??) also.. It will be interesting to see more references if more scholars have any inputs. 

Namaskar,
Bandhavi
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