Philosophy of naming the tenses in Paninian system
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Madhav Kiran Sodum
Oct 17, 2021, 1:43:58 PM10/17/21
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Respected Vidvans,
Pranams to all,
Could you please tell if there is any common feature between all the ṭ-ending lakāras (laṭ, liṭ, luṭ, lṛṭ, leṭ and loṭ) or between all the ṅ-ending lakāras (laṅ, liṅ, luṅ, lṛṅ) due to which the tenses were named as such by Panini? Or is the naming arbitrary?
Thanking you in advance.
Himanshu Pota
Oct 23, 2021, 9:05:04 AM10/23/21
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Madhavji,
I know very little and here I put down a few words, in case it helps.
Panini names the suffixes so that the name of the suffix itself tells how to apply the suffix. In general, suffixes don't just join with the dhaatu but they modify the dhaatu too. How to modify the dhaatu is encoded in the name of the suffix.
All the lakaara names ending in ṭ have something in common in how they modify the dhaatu and similarly lakaara names ending in ṅ. In many instances the eighteen suffixes, which attach to dhaatus, themselves get changed depending on if they are in the ṭ group or the ṅ group.
In short, naming them thus makes for the shortest derivation from the dhaatu to its final form.
To get a complete answer you may have to devote time learning the Paninian system of derivation.
I have given a response, as a beginner like me would know. I am sorry if you knew this and you were looking for a higher philosophical answer.
Panini names the suffixes so that the name of the suffix itself tells how to apply the suffix. In general, suffixes don't just join with the dhaatu but they modify the dhaatu too. How to modify the dhaatu is encoded in the name of the suffix.
All the lakaara names ending in ṭ have something in common in how they modify the dhaatu and similarly lakaara names ending in ṅ. In many instances the eighteen suffixes, which attach to dhaatus, themselves get changed depending on if they are in the ṭ group or the ṅ group.
In short, naming them thus makes for the shortest derivation from the dhaatu to its final form.
To get a complete answer you may have to devote time learning the Paninian system of derivation.
I have given a response, as a beginner like me would know. I am sorry if you knew this and you were looking for a higher philosophical answer.
Thanks.
Himanshu
Madhav Kiran Sodum
Oct 24, 2021, 1:27:24 AM10/24/21
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Thank you Himanshu ji,
This does answer my question to an extent... but a question is why loṭ lakāra is named as such when it shares more features of ṅ-lakāras...
Thank you.
Madhav Kiran Sodum
Oct 25, 2021, 2:42:23 AM10/25/21
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Thank you Ujjwalji.
My question is: why have (3.4.85) loṭo laṅ-vat, when loṭ could have been named as loṅ or some ṅ-ending lakāra - since it really shares more features of ṅ-lakāras than ṭ-lakāras.
Regards
उज्ज्वल राजपूत
Oct 25, 2021, 3:26:55 AM10/25/21
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https://worldsanskrit.net/wiki/05---sArvadhAtukaprakaraNam-adantam-aGgam/03---tiGpratyayAnAM-siddhiH
इत्यत्रोत्त॑रल्ँ लभ्येत॒ कच्चि॑त्। इ॒दम् अन्वि॑ष्यताम्-।
अग्रे तर्हि लोट् लङ्वत् इति चेत्, पाणिनिना किमर्थं लोट् टित् कृतं न तु साक्षात् ङित् ? कुतः लोट्-स्थाने नामकरणं 'लोङ्' न स्यात् ?
Madhav Kiran Sodum
Oct 26, 2021, 1:57:29 AM10/26/21
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Thank you Ujjwalji for this reference... but i couldn't get the author's
logic in saying that ṅ-lakāras wouldn't allow one to apply
टित आत्मनेपदानां टेरे (३.४.७९) when in fact this sutra is not used for loṭ...
उज्ज्वल राजपूत
Oct 26, 2021, 2:17:20 AM10/26/21
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but i couldn't get the author's logic in saying that ṅ-lakāras wouldn't allow one to apply टित आत्मनेपदानां टेरे (३.४.७९) when in fact this sutra is not used for loṭ...
क आ॑ह महोदय॒ न सूत्र॑म् इ॒दल्ँ लो॒टि प्रव॑र्तत॒ इति॑? इ॒माम् प॑श्यतु-।
→ तन् + वहि [तिप्तस्..३.४.७८ इति वहि-प्रत्ययः]
→ तन् + उ + वहि [तनादिकृञ्भ्यः उः ३.१.७९ इति उ-प्रत्ययः]
→ तन् + उ + वहे [टित आत्मनेपदानां टेरे ३.४.७९ इति इकारस्य एकारादेशः]
→ तन् + उ + वहै [एत ऐ ३.४.९३ इति एकारस्य ऐकारादेशः]
→ तन् + उ + आट् + वहै [आडुत्तमस्य पिच्च ३.४.९२ इति आडागमः]
→ तन् + ओ + आ + वहै [आट्-आगमस्य पित्-त्वात् सार्वधातुकार्धधातुकयोः ७.३.८४ इति गुणः]
→ तन् + अव् + आ + वहै [एचोऽयवावावः ६.१.७८ इति अवादेशः]
→ तनवावहै
Madhav Kiran Sodum
Oct 26, 2021, 9:32:55 AM10/26/21
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Thank for the steps Ujjwal ji, now I see the use.
But the question remains that why have loṭo laṅ-vat and then change e to ai using eta ai (3.4.93) when iḍ-vahi-mahiṅ can be directly changed to ai by having a sūtra like: ṭita ai and be done with loṭo laṅ-vat?
Regards
Nagaraj Paturi
Oct 31, 2021, 3:37:38 AM10/31/21
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I request Prof. Korada to guide the young Vidwan on this question.
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Nagaraj Paturi
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
Director, Indic Academy
BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra
BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
BoS Rashtram School of Public Leadership
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Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies,
FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of Liberal Education,
Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
Subrahmanyam Korada
Nov 3, 2021, 3:45:58 AM11/3/21
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नमो विद्वद्भ्यः
Could you please tell if there is any common feature between all the ṭ-ending lakāras (laṭ, liṭ, luṭ, lṛṭ, leṭ and loṭ) or between all the ṅ-ending lakāras (laṅ, liṅ, luṅ, lṛṅ) due to which the tenses were named as such by Panini? Or is the naming arbitrary?
----- Vid Madhav Kiran Sodum
The question cannot be answered on a list like this -- it takes a Monograph .
The best suggestion is - sit down with a गुरु who studied complete महाभाष्यम् , preferably with वाक्यपदीयम् , for a couple of years (depending on the मेधाशक्ति) and learn पाणिनिव्यकरणम् - get in touch with ten commentaries -- knowledge of वाक्यशास्त्रम् / पूर्वमीमांसा and न्ययवैशेषिके is essential (not desirable) .
Take a look at this - just a दिक्सूची --
लस्य ( 3-4-77 ) -- लस्य इत्यधिकारः । .... किंचेदं लस्य इति ? दश लकाराः अनुबन्धविशिष्टा विहिता अर्थविशेषे कालविशेषे च । तेषां विशेषकरान् अनुबन्धान् उत्सृज्य यत् सामान्यं तद्गृह्यते । षट् टितः , चत्वारः ङितः । ( काशिका )
So all लकाराः are not कालवाचकाः and ट् and ङ् have got specific purposes .
Some purposes are general and some are specific --
Note one thing -- लाघवम् (brevity) and निर्दुष्टता ( perfection) are the hallmarks of Panini .
टित आत्मनेपदानां टेरे (3-4-79) -- applicable to टित् लकाराः only .
नित्यं ङितः (3-4-99) ---applicable to ङित् लकाराः only . इतश्च (3-4-100) - ङितो लस्य इत्यादि ।
For brevity , at times Panini may put अर्थविशेषवाचक and कालविशेषवाचक in tandem -- लोटो लङ्वत् (कार्यातिदेशः) - तामादयः सलोपश्च ।
Specific purposes --
लट् -- वर्तमाने लट् (3-2-123) , लटः शतृशानचौ अप्रथमासमानधिकरणे (3-2-124) -- पचन् पचमानः
तौ सत् (3-2-`27) -- शतृशनचौ सत्संज्ञौ स्तः ।
लृटः सद्वा (3-3-14) -- करिष्यन् - करिष्यमाणः ( आने मुक् - पा सू ) ।
लट् स्मे , अपरोक्षे च (3-2-118, 119) -- अपरोक्षे भूतानद्यतने -- इति उपाध्यायः कथयति स्म ।
विधिनिमन्त्रणामन्त्रणाधीष्टसंप्रश्नप्रार्थनेषु लिङ् (3-2-161) लोट् च (3-2-162) |
धातुसंबन्धे प्रत्ययाः (3-4-1)
क्रियासमभिहारे लोट् लोटो हिस्वौ वा च तध्वमोः (3-4-2) -- .... लोट्प्रत्ययो भवति सर्वेषु कालेषु । सर्वलकाराणाम् अपवादः । तस्य च लोटो हि स्व इत्येतौ आदेशौ भवतः । लुनीहि लुनीहि इत्येवायं लुनाति ।
पुरीमवस्कन्द लुनीहि नन्दनम् मुषाण रत्नानि हरामराङ्गनाः ।
विगृह्य चक्रे नमुचिद्विषा बली य इत्थमस्वास्थ्यमहर्दिवं दिवः ॥ शिशुपालवधम् -1 ( ंमल्लिनाथः बभ्रामात्र ) ।
आचार्यात् पादमादत्ते पादं शिष्यः स्वमेधया ।
पादं सब्रह्मचारिभ्यः पादं कालक्रमेण च ॥ याज्ञवल्क्यशिक्षा
धन्यो’स्मि
Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit (Retd)
Professor of Sanskrit (Retd)
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Ph:09866110741
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Shashi Joshi
Nov 4, 2021, 8:40:54 AM11/4/21
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Korada Acharya,
I am interested to know the source of the shloka you mentioned in the last reply:
आचार्यात् पादमादत्ते पादं शिष्यः स्वमेधया ।
पादं सब्रह्मचारिभ्यः पादं कालक्रमेण च ॥ याज्ञवल्क्यशिक्षा
I am unable to find in the aforementioned work as available here - https://archive.org/details/shikshasamgraha
Do you, by any chance, have the shloka number reference for it?
DhanyavadaH,
Shashi
Shashi
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Siddharth Wakankar
Nov 4, 2021, 9:16:01 AM11/4/21
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आचार्यात् पादमादत्ते पादमेकं स्वमेधया।
पादं सब्रह्मचारिभ्यः पादः कालेन पच्यते।।
This is the reading which I know and I think it is from some Brahmana text,of which I have no exact reference.
Earlier on this bvp,this was discussed.Dont remember the exact date/ year.
Prof.Siddharth Y.Wakankar
Vadodara.9427339942.
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Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan
Nov 4, 2021, 1:09:22 PM11/4/21
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Yes, I can’t find it in the Yajnavalkya Siskha published by Chowkamba either
Ramakrishnan
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Subrahmanyam Korada
Nov 4, 2021, 8:29:15 PM11/4/21
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नमो विद्वद्भ्यः
I learnt it roughly 55 years ago and now the primary source is eluding - not in शिक्षा-s . May be even a सुभाषितम् just like many other verses .
Would be notified if I come across something .
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Shashi Joshi
Nov 4, 2021, 8:35:09 PM11/4/21
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https://blog.practicalsanskrit.com/2009/12/how-we-learn-and-grow.html
Update at the end of article:
Update 17-Jan-2020:
The source of this shloka first seems to be in Mahābhārata Udyoga Parva 44:16, in a paraphrased form. Nīlakanṭha in his commentary on Mahābhārata gives this shloka as an example, with a slight different wording:
The source of this shloka first seems to be in Mahābhārata Udyoga Parva 44:16, in a paraphrased form. Nīlakanṭha in his commentary on Mahābhārata gives this shloka as an example, with a slight different wording:
आचार्यात् पादमादत्ते पादं शिष्यः स्वमेधया ।
कालेन पादमादत्ते पादं सब्रह्मचारिभिः ॥
In the commentary on Apastamba Dharmasūtra by Haradatta, Khanda 7, Sutra 29:
In the commentary on Apastamba Dharmasūtra by Haradatta, Khanda 7, Sutra 29:
आचार्यात्पादमादत्ते पादं शिष्यस्स्वमेधया ।
पादं सब्रह्मचारिभ्यः पादः कालेन पच्यते ॥
Thank you,
Shashi
Shashi
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Madhav Kiran Sodum
Nov 8, 2021, 12:00:10 AM11/8/21
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