Rule for अधिकमास - no correction necessary at any future date ?

[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Scholars,

    Namaste.

    Prof. L.V.S. Mani has remarked in the footnote of his article "Intercalary (Adhika) and Decayed (Kshaya) Months" that "the rule for determining Adhika Masa has been framed by which the lunar year is always tagged to the solar year ... the ancient Hindus have devised a method by which no correction is necessary at any future date."

[Ref: The Astrological Magazine, Ed. Dr B.V. Raman, Feb.1982, p.184]

     But since there are problems in the Hindu Luni-Solar Calendar and hence Calendar Reform Committee was set up. In this regard I would like to know comments from the specialists.

     Thanks and regards

     Narayan Prasad

[Narayan Prasad]

Namaste.

Since no comments have come up so far, I would like to mention the opinion of Pt. S.B. Dixit about a century back in his astronomical work "भारतीय ज्योतिषशास्त्राचा इतिहास". An extract from p.418 is attached herewith.

The seasons depend on the tropical year and not on sidereal year. The Roman calendar in general official use all through the world is based on tropical year. But the Hindu's calendar is based on sidereal year.

The mean value of tropical  year in the year 2000 AD: 365.242190402 mean solar days.

The mean value of sidereal year in the year 2000 AD: 365.256363004 mean solar days.

(See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year#CITEREFIERS2014)

So the difference between the two: 0.014172602 mean solar days.

Its inverse = 70.5586

So error of 1 day will occur in about 70.56 years and of 30 days in about 2116 years.

If the luni-solar Hindu calendar is to be continued, a better option to restrict the Hindu festivals to the required seasons, would be to dispense with an अधिकमास in about 2000 years.

In case of the occurrence of two अधिकमासs within 3 lunar मासs, it is better to accept only one to avoid a क्षयमास in between.

Regards

Narayan Prasad

[Anand Hudli]

Namaste Mahodaya,

Hindu lunisolar calendar is based on sidereal (background of stars) consideration more than seasons. So it is debatable whether panchanga makers in the country will unanimously agree that adhikamasa system in current use should be given up. As things stand currently, with different computational methods (sUrya siddhAnta, AryabhaTIya, dRggaNita, etc.) in preparing panchangas, we see significant differences in dates of festivals and observances. If we introduce an additional method to make festivals closer to seasons, i.e. following the tropical year rather than sidereal year, there will be further confusion. Note also that elimination of adhikamAsas will not guarantee coincidence of festivals with the "correct" season all the time, since in that case we will be following a lunar calendar instead of a lunisolar calendar. That would lead to festivals falling in different seasons in different years and not just the "correct" season. 

Anand

[A K Kaul]

Shri Narayan Prasadji,

Jai Shri Ram!

Kindly bear with me for some time for my comments about adhika/kshyayamasa.

Generally speaking what the late one and only Pandit S B Dikshit has said is quite correct!

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

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[Prakash Raj Pandey]

The year reckoned on the basis of sankranti is sidereal one.  I thought so. 

Prakash

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[A K Kaul]

Dear Narayan Prasadji,

Jai Shri Ram!

Thank you for initiating discussion on the ticklish topic of adhika/kshya-masa!

Adhikamasa is a phenomenon recorded in the earliest Veda viz. the Rig-Veda 1/25/8 which reads/says

वेदमासो धृत व्रतो द्वादश प्रजावतः |  वेदा य उपजायते

"Varuna knows the twelve months; (and) the animals created during that period; (and the thirteenth intercalary month) which is created near the twelve months" (S B Dikshit's translation)

Thus there are supposed to be occasionally thirteen lunar months vis-a-vis the twelve solar months of a (solar) year.  

This thirteenth (adhika) lunar month was known as  मलिम्लुच: and अम्हस्पतिः as per Vajasneya Samhita 7/30 and 2/30-31.

Now the question arises as to what type of lunar month was adhika/kshaya vis-a-vis its solar counterpart and what type of month was the latter one .

Unlike a solar year there is no lunar year in a proper sense.  

 A synodic month from New Moon to New Moon (Amanta to Amanta) is usually taken into account for calculating an adhika (excess) or Kshyya (decayed) month.

The solar year as per the entire Vedic lore is seasonal which means  that it has to be inexorably connected to the seasons. 

Thus a solar year of twelve solar months comprises  six seasons.  

The Vedas declare in quite an unambiguous manner that a (Vedic solar) year has no existence unless it is supported by seasons

ऋतुभिर्हि संवत्सरः शक्नोति स्थातुं  (शतपथ ब्राह्मण 8/7/1/8)

एकं वा एतद्देवानामहः || यत्संवत्सरः || (तै. ब्रा. 3.9.22) 

As per the attachment RV02, a Vedic year consists of 12 months which are made of five seasons (six seasons actually, but the commentator Acharya Sayana has clarified that Hemanta and Shishira have been clubbed together, and as such only five seasons have been talked about) (Attachment RV1)

Lal Bahadur Shastri Samskrit Vidyalaya, Delhi, have published the first Mandala of the Rig Veda, with the commentary by well known Vedic scholars Acharya Shivraj Jharkhandi and Aahitagni Shastri.

They  have given a detailed explanation of the above quoted mantra of the Rig-Veda about Adhika-masa in the following words

साल के बारह महीने और बारह महीनों  की प्रजा अर्थात दिन, घटी , पल और विपल  वरुण जानते हैं |   तेरह महीने भी होते हैं क्यूंकि चान्द्रमास अर्थात अमावस्या  का समय (२९ दिन १२ घंटा ४४ मिनट ३ सेकण्ड का होता है और इसका बारह गुणा करने से साल  ३५४ दिन ८ घंटे  ४८ मिनट 36 सेकण्ड का होगा | परन्तु  सूर्य का सौर वर्ष (सायन मेष राशि से चल कर पुनः सायन मेष राशि पर आने तक) ३६५ दिन ५ घंटे ४८ मिनट ३५  सेकंड का होता है | इससे प्रति वर्ष १० दिन २१    घंटे ११  से का अंतर आता है | इस लिए ३ वर्षों मैं एक मॉस बड़ा कर सौर और चंद्र वर्षों का मेल करते हैं।। यही तेरहवां महीना  है जिसको वरुण जानते हैं।

(Here I have made some minor changes in the duration given by the commentators.  I have given the difference in mean duration, though these days adhika-mas is decided on the basis of Apparent longitudes of the sun and the moon.  But in ancient Vedic days, only mean longitudes were followed, and even those were not very correct).

However, what is to be noted here is that the commentators have mentioned specifically  ''A solar year ranges from one SAYANA Mesha RASHI/SAMKRANTI  to the next SAYANA Mesha Rashi Samkranti " 

This translation was done by them about a hundred years back when there was no nirayana-sayana controversy!

(Pl. see RV01 attachment)

As a further demonstration of the same, the earliest indigenous astronomical work viz. the Vedanga Jyotisham of 15th century BCE has made a solar year start/range between two Udagayanas i.e. the two Winter Solstices.  And as calculation of an exact solar month was next to impossible in that hoary past, Acharya Lagadhs has advised to add two intercalary (lunar) months after every thirty (seasonal solar) months in a five year yuga of sixty (seasonal) months.

I can declare it with all the emphasis at my command that none of the Vedas or the Vedangas touched any niraayana (what is euphemistically known as sidereal) year even with a barge pole!

I am sure none of the scholars of this august forum will disagree with me on either of these points!

Thus we have to commence a new solar year from either of the Solstices (Either Uttarayana or Dakshinayana) or Equinoxes (Either Vasanta Sampat or Sharat Sampat) if we really want to follow the Vedic lore in letter and spirit.  And we must adjust all the synodic lunar months accordingly vis-a-vis Madhu, Madhava etc. solar months.

I must put on record here that the Vedic solar months also were/are named Madhu, Madhava etc. 

And the Vedas tell us मधुश्च माधवश्च वासन्तिकावृतू  and so on.  

As per the attachment Madhu-Madhava-lunr months, it is clear that lunar Madhu, Madhava etc. months have to be adjusted against and correlated with seasonal solar Madhu, Madhava etc. months.

We cannot wish  them away, howsoever hard we may try!

Unless we do so immediately, we will continue to follow adharma in the name of "sidereal calendar"!

What pains me is that Vaishakhi,  the new solar year that we are celebrating on 15th of April these days, has absolutely no sanction, I REPEAT ABSOLUTELY NO SANCTION, from any shastra! It is not connected with any star either, nor is it based on any siddhanta, including the Surya Siddhanta nor any Purana, whether Srimad Bhagvata or Vishnu Purana or Shiva Purana or Vishnudharmotara Purana and so on!

What pains me to see is that even the well-read Vedic scholars of this august forum are taking such a lacunae lightly!

The long and short of this mail is 

NIRAYANA IS REALLY NIRADHAAR---IT HAS NOT EVEN ASTRONOMICAL SANCTION, LET ALONE THE SANCTION FROM ANY OF THE VEDAS OR THE VEDANGAS OR PURANAS OR SIDDDHANTS!

IT HAS TO BE DISCARDED IMMEDIATELY!

शुभस्य शीघ्रं |

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

Avtar Krishen Kaul

--

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Namaste.

<quote\>

If the luni-solar Hindu calendar is to be continued, a better option to restrict the Hindu festivals to the required seasons, would be to dispense with an अधिकमास in about 2000 years.

</quote>

Erroneous judgement to see relative movement between seasons (say, solstices) and mAsa-s of panchAnga as a defect:
In reality this "defect" is deliberate and lets the logic of yuga-s (kali etc) work out within the panchanga framework.

It is no coincidence that during Mahabharata (start of kali) winter-solstice occurred in the mid of kumbha (i.e. on average at the start of mAgha).

mAgha is no ordinary mAsa and the start of the present kali is linked to WS in mAgha. In fact mAgha in Hindu panchAnga has some invariant properties that help us identify even the nakshatra (hence rAshi) framework changes over really long periods of time.

The problem is, such intricate subjects cannot be done justice with in decrepit Indian University system, or for that matter committees lorded by comrades.

And I don't see BVP as a right platform either.

[Radhakrishna Warrier]

“But the Hindu's calendar is based on sidereal year.

The mean value of tropical  year in the year 2000 AD: 365.242190402 mean solar days.

The mean value of sidereal year in the year 2000 AD: 365.256363004 mean solar days.

(See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_year#CITEREFIERS2014)

So the difference between the two: 0.014172602 mean solar days.

Its inverse = 70.5586

So error of 1 day will occur in about 70.56 years and of 30 days in about 2116 years.”

Currently, many in India celebrate Uttaraayana (winter solstice) on January 14th, although the actual event is on December 21.  There is thus a difference of 24 days.  Does it mean that both (the actual and that which is celebrated) coincided 1693 years ago?  Then it would mean that the present sidereal calendar came into existence at that time.  That might have been during the reign of the famous Bhoja Raja thought to be a contemporary of Kalidasa.

(अद्य धारा निराधारा निरालम्बा सरस्वति ... fame)

I believe the difference between sidereal and solar years is due to the precession of the equinox.

Regards,

Radhakrishna Warrier 

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Subject: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Rule for अधिकमास - no correction necessary at any future date ?

 

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[A K Kaul]

Dear Shri Warrier,

Jai Shri Ram!

Neither any of the Vedas nor the Vedangas nor the Puranas nor the siddhantas has talked about any sidereal year.

Even the Bhagavadgita has talked about a year comprising two Ayanas of six months each which means a seasonal/tropical year.

Those six months are solar as well as lunar. 

Each Ayana consists of six solar months whereas the Gita in the same shloka has talked about lunar months also when it has said

अग्निर्ज्योतिरहः शुक्लः षण्मासाः उत्तरायणम्।।.....

Thus there is absolutely no indication of any sidereal year in the Itihasas either.

This aberration of "narayana" seems to have crept in by not having followed/understood either the Surya Siddhanta or Aryabhatiya or the Siddhant Shiromani etc. properly though we swear by these works.

Makaranda and Graha-Laghava have been the main culprits for having created this mayhem!

That means we have to eliminate----do a correction of---- about 24 days from our calendar exactly as Pope Gregory had eliminated 10 days from the Julian  calendar by frog-hopping to October 15 from October 4 in 1586.

The earlier we do so the better.

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

Avtar Krishan Kaul

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[Radhakrishna Warrier]

"That might have been during the reign of the famous Bhoja Raja thought to be a contemporary of Kalidasa.".

I think I might be wrong.  

I see in Wikipedia that Raja Bhoja was a Paramāra king whose  period of reign was 1010 to 1055 CE.  But in Kerala, there are folktales connecting Kalidasa and Raja Bhoja of Dhārā.  In the collection of folktales "Aitihyamāla", there is this story in which Kalidasa was the court poet in Raja Bhoja's court.  Besides that, both had a bond of deep friendship between them.   For some reason, Kalidasa became estranged with the king and leaves the kingdom.  The king becomes very sad and sends spies in search of his friend Kalidasa.  The king gets the news that someone was found roaming in the forests who had some resemblance to Kalidasa.  The king resorted to a trick to ascertain the identity of this person.  He proceeds to the forest incognito to find this person.  He finds this stranger in the forest and tells him that the king of Dhara is no more.  Stricken with extreme sorrow, the stranger says:

अद्य धारा निराधारा, निरालम्बा सरस्वती

पण्डिता खण्डिता सर्वॅ भोजराजे दिवंगते

The king then reveals himself to be Raja Bhoja.  Kalidasa sings in extreme joy:

अद्य धारा सदाधारा, सदालम्बा सरस्वती

पण्डिता मण्डिता सर्वे भोजराजे भुवंगते

This is the story in Aitihyamala.

If this Bhoja has to be a contemporary of Kalidasa, he is a different Bhoja than the Paramara king Bhoja Deva.

Maybe, the sidereal Calendar was launched during the Gupta era, or slightly after that.

Regards,

Radhakrishna Warrier

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[A K Kaul]

Dear Shri Tuvij,
Jai Shri Ram!

<Erroneous judgement to see relative movement between seasons (say, solstices) and mAsa-s of panchAnga as a defect:

In reality this "defect" is deliberate and lets the logic of yuga-s (kali etc) work out within the panchanga framework.>

As adhikamasa is a phenomenon going on since the earliest viz. the Rig-Veda ( 1/25/8 

वेदमासो धृत व्रतो द्वादश प्रजावतः |  वेदा य उपजायते) it has nothing to do with any yuga including the Kaliyuga!

Even otherwise also, the Kali Era that is given in the Panchangas and which we are following has absolutely no basis, either astronomical or scientific nor even scriptural.

It has come into vogue from about 499 AD when Aryabhata claimed in his Aryabhatiya that he was 23 years old when 3600 years of Kaliyuga had elapsed.

<mAgha is no ordinary mAsa and the start of the present kali is linked to WS in mAgha. In fact mAgha in Hindu panchAnga has some invariant properties that help us identify even the nakshatra (hence rAshi) framework changes over really long periods of time>

Present Kaliyuga is supposed to have started on either Ujjain mean midnight of February 17/18, 3102 BCE at Ujjain (as per the Surya Siddhanta) or at about 6-00 am of Ujjain mean time at Ujjain on February 18, 3102 BCE as per Aryabhatiya!  (Just see the confusion here also!)  

As per the attachment Kali-zero planets, it was the Vedic month of Tapasya/Phalguna then.  The Winter Solstice was on January 13/14 in 3102 BCE.  That means it was more than a month before the so called (current) Kaliyuga started.

<The problem is, such intricate subjects cannot be done justice with in decrepit Indian University system, or for that matter committees lorded by comrades.>

The problem of calendar reform has been going on for the last more than two hundred years.  The late Pandit S B Dikshit had done a Herculean job and started publishing a Panchanga as per the injunctions of shastras with expenses from his own pocket without any subsidy from anybody.

But because of vested interests he had to close it!

Pandit Dikshit was neither a comrade nor a faculty member of any decrepit University!

Efforts have been going on ever since.

The Calendar Reform Committee of 1954-55 had invited suggestions/objections from one and all.  Almost every Panchanga-maker had participated in it.

The Committee had arrived at a uniform decision that a (so called) Sayana calendar should be followed.  But again, it was derailed by vested interests including its Secretary, late N C Lahiri who was publishing his own (Nirayana, of course!) Lahiri Panchang in Bangla and Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris in English!

<And I don't see BVP as a right platform either.>

Honestly, I wonder as to if a forum like BVP which has a galaxy of Samskrit scholars of extraordinary caliber in almost all the disciplines is not the right platform for this arduous but the most essential chore, which other forum is!

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

--

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

1.     The exchanges in this post seem to be taking off the line of tradition; and also charging the followers of traditional texts look as 'sheep flock, making a blind following since the time of Aryabhatta' ! So may be it.

 

·        The long short of this model of this debate seems to be  challenging the vedanga Jyotisha discipline and all related professions, communities to discredit it, by attacking the  tools -methods and systems used in it.

·        If really the intention is to get the stated benefits of vedanga jyotisha, and understand 'why-how' of the tradition, a different approach in education-training, study, practice, research in vedanga jyotisha in alignment with the yoga- tradition needs to be reinstated.

·        Misconstruing the texts of tradition, quoting practice abuse, inappropriate pedagogy and distorted translations is not the way bring glory to the 'bhaarateeya sampradaya'.

·        If we have not understood the 'sampradaya' , let us work to understand it the way it was designed and is recommended for use,  before casting aspersions and discrediting the discipline.   The people of past centuries are not going to rise from grave to defend charges made on them now !

·        Vedanga Jyotisha or Vedas never claimed to be the documents of season studies, rain fall, sky- objects-study. The 'Grahas- Nakshatras' of Vedanga Jyotisha are Devataas.

·        They are not floating matter in void ,  devoid of consciousness, unconnected with any human life event, burning matter to generate light and heat, measured as

·        electromagnetic energy.   

·        The concept of ' samvatsara' in the quoted  veda mantras (1/25/8)  and translations of terms ' madhu, madhava, malimlucha,saha, sahasya needs reference back to   

Vedanga Nirukta explanations to understand and align them to the use  in vedanga Jyotisha tradition. Rigveda 1-164-48 is an iconic description and NOT time specifying standard or poetry of season - phenomenon explanation.  This cannot be done without a proper understanding of Paninian vedanga Vyakarana.

 

2.    Defense of adhika masa / vakya panchanga - living tradition from traditional schools:   Let us look at a plausible defense model for vakya-panchanga.   

 

2a.  Vakya-Panchanga of vakya  adhika masa as a time reference - Tradition, 'Where and what is 'adharma' in vakya-panchanga ?:  The first point for highlight here is the authority to  use 'vararuchi- chandra-vakya' system for vakya panchanga;  calculations provided by  Nilakantiya and continuing tradition to prepare 'vakya-panchanga'. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandravakyas ).

 

            Vararuchi, also known as vartika-kaara, a samskruth grammarian and amends provider for Panini (c. 4th century CE),  is a legendary figure in the astronomical traditions of Kerala. He is credited with the authorship of the collection of Chandravākyas. Chandravākyas  are a collection of numbers, arranged in the form of a list, related to the motion of the Moon in its orbit around the Earth. These numbers are couched in the katapayadi system of representation of numbers and so apparently appear like a list of words, or phrases or short sentences written in Sanskrit and hence the terminology Chandravākyas. In Sanskrit, Chandra is the Moon and vākya means a sentence. The term Chandravākyas could thus be translated as Moon-sentences. These were routinely made use of for computations of native almanacs and for predicting the position of the Moon. The work ascribed to Vararuchi is also known as Chandravākyāni, or Vararucivākyāni, or Pañcāṅgavākyāni. Madhava of Sangamagrama (c. 1350 – c. 1425), the founder of the Kerala school of astronomy and mathematics, had set forth a revised set of Chandravākyās, together with a method for computing them, in his work titled Venvaroha.

 

            Chandravākyas were also popular in Tamil Nadu region of South India. There, the astrologers and astronomers used these vākyās to construct almanacs. These almanacs were popularly referred to as the Vākya-pañcāṅgas. This is used in contrast to the modern mode computation of almanacs based on computation methods copied from NASA's astronomical observations which may or may not be accurate. These modern almanacs are known as Dṛk Pañcāṅgas ( or Thirukanitha Pañcāṅgas).

 

      Another important point is  bringing the connection of  vararuchi as the Samskruth grammarian and Vedaga Jyotisha tradition, the continuity of this tradition over a millennia in India . This was the time stretch when masters of tradition and vedanta acharays prevailed, and we also get the Sayana Veda-bhashya. If there had been any kind of < variant understanding of Rigveda for panchanga purposes,  failure to connect sayana and nirayana system of calculations, time deviation in observing the vratas or samskara-shraddhas according to Dharma Shastras >, someone would have pointed out the need for correction. To make a sweeping charge that all the acharyas and communities in the long period of millennia < followed 'adharma' in the name of sidereal  calendar, which has absolutely no sanction from any shastra>  is a tall claim !

 

2b.    Social usage and reference in mahabharta for adhika masa as a time reference : Within Indian tradition, the best known ancient reference to the 'adhika-masa/ kshaya masa' calculation comes in Mahabharata, when  counting of the last date  for  pandavas exile period was debated. (At least as the mahabharata narrative presents). From this reference positioned for  3100 BCE circa, let us jump to the vedanga jyotisha calculations in the period 1500 circa- Kelallur Nilakantha Somayaji (also referred to as Kelallur Comatiri) 14 June 1444 – 1544)   a major mathematician and astronomer of the Kerala school of astronomy and mathematics in India. One of his most influential works was the comprehensive astronomical treatise Tantrasamgraha completed in 1501. He had also composed an elaborate commentary on Aryabhatiya called the Aryabhatiya Bhasya. In this Bhasya, Nilakantha had discussed infinite series expansions of trigonometric functions and problems of algebra and spherical geometry. Grahapareeksakrama is a manual on making observations in astronomy based on instruments of the time. Known popularly as Kelallur Chomaathiri, he is considered an equal to Kottessori Parameshwaran Kundisori. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilakantha_Somayaji) . The astronomy related significance of this work can be seen in Prof. Ramasubramanian's article at - http://www.physics.iitm.ac.in/~labs/amp/kerala-astronomy.pdf .

 

2c.   Why did ancient sages provide multiple siddhantas and scope for panchangas ? Were they trying to deliberately confuse posterity or  we are blind to the guidance glaringly present in the tradition ? : The upfront statement in almost all panchangas, at least south indian ( especially from karnataka, andhra pradesh, and tamilnadu) have upfront statement indicating where to use  calculation  by 'surya siddhanta (Drik-ganitha/ Nirayana ) and where to use 'vakya-panchanga' calculation. The publications are very clear in recoding difference by day and time, whether it be for a major event like  Yugadi, Ganesh chaturthi, Navaratri , Ramanavami, Janmashtami   Or  specific event like ekadashi observation, tithi for shraadha karma.  

 

2d.      Now, when vedanga jyotisha has provided 18 siddhantas and several predictive systems of 'jataka' and specific models of calculation, should we not ask a question -why so many variants ? What is the purpose ? It is here that we have a clarity from tradition. Each  panchanga is used for specific  dharma -shastra related 'ritual -religiosity'.   Traditional communities have no problem with the traditional panchangas !

            This is told in the most common quote, placed upfront in almost all panchangas ! ( may not be in the Indian national almanac) :

              tithescha shriyamapnoti, vaaraat ayushya vardhanam ;

             nakshatrat harate paapm, yogat roga-nivaranam;

             karanaat karya samsiddhih, panchanga -phalam uttamam.

 

       The benefit of knowing tithi is for wealth gain; knowing vaara is for longevity knowledge; knowing yoga is for preparedness to take care of advent of health issues ; knowing karana is for success in action ; knowing nakshatra is for freedom from sin.

 

2e.      These five elements  are deeply connected with Sun (drik-ganitha), Moon ( Vakya -siddhanta), Nakshatra ( backdrop of Sun and Moon movements), Yoga and Karana are addition subtraction derivatives related to tithi.  Therefore, the panchanga system is made to provide the consolidated  information on these five elements. When the vedanga information was to be a reference document for public use in community for observance of religious ceremonies, the connection of 'panchanga detail to business calendar was made as a convenience.

 

2f.              The Dharma shastras provided the TIMING for  'karma-samskara observance'  by soura and chandramana panchanga using  the five panchanga elements as above. They also say why a particular vedanga jyotisha-ganitha based panchanga is to be used for different karmas. This is a part of the vedanga-jyotisha diagnostics of the problems of the seeker. This is where one finds the detailing of graha-kaarakatva ( as sun is for Atmaa, Father ; Moon is for Manas ; guru is for santaana and the like).  I am still seeking someone, knowledgeable about tradition to explain me what makes a ' Souramana Ekadashi' observance different from 'Chandramana Ekadashi tithi' , even if it is in term of ' punya-phala'. I have not been find someone who can provide the rationale and mystic of Dharma (Yoga) shastra. This is not simply showing the ' difference in day-time to begin and end ekadashi' - in relation to a business calendar like gregorian or a shaka calendar or a specific religious institution panchanga publication.  

 

2g.              There is a clear difference in the movement of sun and moon; The two models of soura and chandramana panchagnas can stand independent and on their own feet, without recourse to the other! The sun-moon movements are going on independently  in the sky and universe. The panchanga kartaa provides a  localized reference  pointing to the periodic crisscross of the two calculations, for a convenience.  Adhika maasa / kshaya maasa is the presence or absence of this overlapping crisscross period. This practice of documenting soura and chandramaana as separate publications was / is seen in some panchangas of karnataka . The pages of vakya and drik are placed in independent sections, even when the book is one;  the nirayana degree calculation chart is placed in an independent section. In short, the panchanga, as a  printed document is a conglomeration of calculations arrived at placed as  data from various rules ; and the practicing vedanga jyotishi / counseling dharmashastra guide/ the purohita is supposed to know which section to use for what purpose.

 

2h.      The panchanga document does not venture to explain the 'why difference between two systems'? . The answers for this question is to be looked at in 'Dharma Shastra' design which recommends the observance of ' karma' in an appropriate time, using which system and why.  The Dharma shastra provides the basis for the 'TIME -EVENT OBSERVANCE- BEENFIT'.  Example . Why bhadrapada shuddha chauti  observance of ganesha vrata is special compared ot sankashti on chaturthee in the dark half of the chandramaana maasa.  Why mahashivaratri is different fom maasa-shivaratri.   

 

2i.            The Vedanga Jytoisha based Panchanga provides the 'KAALA-GANITHA'.  The 'KARMA-KANDA' provides the ' METHOD AND SYSTEMS (Vidhi-Vidhana OF PERFORMING KARMA'. The Vedas provide the 'MANTRA' to be used.  The ' PURO-HITA/ Acharya guides the conducts the Karma ( aachaaryavaan purusho veda). This model of  integrated vedanga jyotisha education, along with Yoga and Samskrutham, the lifestyle training and disciple to be professional of vendaga jyotisha  is endangered in the current period. The reason is lack of proper community education on Why-When of Dharma /Karma observances, the hype claims of some jyotish practitioners, the inappropriate translations and partial interpretation of the source works in the name of academic research.  

 

3.  Why is the difficulty of  modern researchers in understanding the  multiple  panchangas ?  and what may be the likely reason ?:

 

3a.      Preference to align X-ian business calendar dates to different dates in traditional  panchanga for a social  convenience:   Where then is the difficulty of modern researchers and critics in understanding the traditional thought? It is in an effort to  align the 'vedanga Jyotisha- Ganita/ panchanga' (used for Veda-Dharma practice)  to the historical alien model of Gregorian calendar used for business The Gregorian calendar is the calendar used in most of the present world. It is named after Pope Gregory XIII, who introduced it in October 1582. The calendar spaces leap years to make the average year 365.2425 days long, approximating the 365.2422-day tropical year that is determined by the Earth's revolution around the Sun. The history of Gregorian calendar goes back to Roman Republic and the Roman Empire  and  Julian calendar, which began in 45 BC,  There was no discontinuity in the cycle of weekdays or of the Anno Domini calendar era. The reform also altered the lunar cycle used by the Church to calculate the date for Easter (computus), restoring it to the time of the year as originally celebrated by the early Church. Due to globalization in the 20th century, the calendar has also been adopted by most non-Western countries for civil purposes. The calendar era carries the alternative secular name of "Common Era". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar)!

 

3b.          The vedanga jyotisha calendar (chandramana, souramana, barhaspatymana, Nakshatra maana..) did not think of aligning their calculations to any social historical calendar - of shaka  model or historical reference like Gregorian calendar !    Vedanga jytoisha identified the sky-map positions and visioned the ' AUSPICIOUSNESS OF TIME' (Shubha-labha muhurta) for a given location. The Geo-locale identity and Skymap graha-position,  the measures of observed relational movements/ position of  sun and moon in the backdrop  of bha-chakra ( ecliptic)   was used to measure the 'AUSPICIOUS NATURE OF TIME', down to the level of ghati-vighati units.  The time measure is indicated in five units: Tithi, vara( based on Hora), nakshatra, yoga, karana.  Each of these elements has a specific benefit, as noted above. This part is not examined seriously and objectively  by science research; nay it is pushed out as 'superstition, tribal practice belief, palcebo-practices, con-arts'.  

 

4.        I conclude my post with a request. 'Hubble telescope, NASA ephemeris based planetary positions are not a substitution or equivalent of ' Yoga-Vision', and 'vedanga jyotisha ganitha'. Let us work together to understand the tradition and see how best the axiomatic benefits stated from vedanga jyotisha studies can be realized. Negative commenting and rejection of tradition is not going to bring any good outcome. If we love and respect our inheritance, let us put our time and effort to research the tradition. If this is not our interest, pride or useful for our life, let us do serious research to disprove veda- vedanga system in an objective scientific way, the approach of ' Null hypothesis' .

The wisdom of Gita (3-26)on null hypothesis  is : na buddhi-bhedam janayed, ajnanam karma-sanginam ; josayet sarva-karmani ,vidvan yuktah samacaran:: Let not the wise disrupt the minds of the ignorant who are attached to fruitive action. They should not be encouraged to refrain from work, but to engage in work in the spirit of devotion.

 

            What is null hypothesis? - In inferential statistics, the null hypothesis is a general statement or default position that there is no relationship between two measured phenomena, or no association among groups. Testing (accepting, approving, rejecting, or disproving) the null hypothesis—and thus concluding that there are or are not grounds for believing that there is a relationship between two phenomena (e.g. that a potential treatment has a measurable effect)—is a central task in the modern practice of science; the field of statistics gives precise criteria for rejecting a null hypothesis. The null hypothesis is generally assumed to be true until evidence indicates otherwise. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis)

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

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[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Shri Kaul Ji,

     Namaste!

<<I must put on record here that the Vedic solar months also were/are named Madhu, Madhava etc. >>

Don't you think it proper to have separate nomenclature for the lunar and solar months ?

<<As per the attachment Madhu-Madhava-lunr months, it is clear that lunar Madhu, Madhava etc. months have to be adjusted against and correlated with seasonal solar Madhu, Madhava etc. months.>>

BTW, is the English translation "History of Indian Astronomy" that of S.B. Dixit's work in Marathi (भारतीय ज्योतिषशास्त्राचा इतिहास) ?

Is this English translation complete ? Is it available nowadays? What are the publication details?

Thanks and regards

Narayan Prasad

[A K Kaul]

Dear Shri Narayan Prasadji,

Jai Shri Ram!

<Don't you think it proper to have separate nomenclature for the lunar and solar months ?>

The nomenclature (lunar) Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. has created a lot of confusion as some niraadhar nirayana followers are saying that Chaitra-Shukla Paksha Purnima has to be in (so called) Chitra Nakshatra---that too Lahiri nakshatras!---and then only the month will be named as Chaitra!

Shankar Balkrishan Dikshit has made it very clear that the names Chaitra etc. came into vogue quite late in the day as is clear from the attachment Madhu=Chaitra and no"no Rashis in the Vedas"! 

It is also surprising as to how these nirayana scholars claim that a lunar new year starts from Lahiri Chaitra, when right from the Surya Siddhanta to Siddhanta Shiromani, (from Alpha to Omega of Siddhantic astronomy!) all the astronomical works advise to make it start from (lunar) Madhu.  The commentators right from Ranganatha to Pandit Sudhakar Dwivedi have named the same Madhu as (lunar) Chaitra.  It is thus clear that because of our ignorance of the siddhantas, we are not celebrating any of the festivals whether lunar or solar, in accordance with any injunctions from the Vedic lore or Pauranic or siddhantic!

All we are doing is celebrating Lahiri lunar as well as solar months/festivals!  That is why I call it "Almighty Lahiri Ayanamsha" which is actually niraadhar but it has over ruled the Vedic, Pauranic and siddhantic injunctions!!

Thus if we have to celebrate any Chaitri Navratra, it has to be the lunar month of Madhu Shukla Pratipat.  We may name it Chaitra but will that be agreeable to nirayana jyotishis!

<BTW, is the English translation "History of Indian Astronomy" that of S.B. Dixit's work in Marathi (भारतीय ज्योतिषशास्त्राचा इतिहास) ?

Is this English translation complete ? Is it available nowadays? What are the publication details?>

I had got a hard copy of Part I of "History of Indian Astronomy" from Kolkata several decades back when part II was out of print.  However, now both the parts (volumes) are available in pdf format.

I am also attaching the "aadesha Patra" of His Holiness Shankarcharya of Dwarka, issued by him in 1893, (and produced by S B Dikshit in his work) advising that nirayana is absolutely useless (niraadhaar!) for any religious festivals etc. 

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

NIRAYANA IS REALLY NIRADHAAR---IT HAS NOT EVEN ASTRONOMICAL SANCTION, LET ALONE THE SANCTION FROM ANY OF THE VEDAS OR THE VEDANGAS OR PURANAS OR SIDDHANTAS!

IT HAS TO BE DISCARDED IMMEDIATELY!

शुभस्य शीघ्रं |

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

Avtar Krishen Kaul

--

[Siddharth Wakankar]

History of Bharatiya Jyotish by S.B.Dikshit was translated into English by Shri R. V. Vaidya who worked for 22 years in the Ujjain Observatory and I think the book was published by some Govt.of India agency. I forgot its exact details.I personally knew Shri Vaidya and he has written some books in Marathi also on Hindu Sanskriti, Panchanga etc. His younger sister,son in law and other relatives were staying in Mumbai and Vadodara,but,I have lost their track now,otherwise,I could have given their contact details.

Best of luck in your efforts to trace the details about this book 

Prof. Siddharth Y Wakankar.

Vadodara.9427339942.

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[Narayan Prasad]

<< However, now both the parts (volumes) are available in pdf format. >>

<<History of Bharatiya Jyotish by S.B.Dikshit was translated into English by Shri R. V. Vaidya >>

Dear Shri Kaul ji and Prof. Wakankar,

     Namaste!

     Thanks a lot to both of you.

   

     Here are the three links:

     

    https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra1
    https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra2

    https://archive.org/details/IndianCalendarSewelDikshit/page/n6

    Long back I saw only the first part in English translation at BORI library. The second part was not available there.

    Anyway, in the year 2000, I could get a copy of the third edition of भारतीय ज्योतिषशास्त्राचा इतिहास in Marathi published from Pune in 1989. Cover page attached.

    Its Hindi translation appeared long back (in 1957 ?) probably from Allahabad. 

    Best regards

    Narayan Prasad

[Irene Galstian]

Just noticed this:

https://archive.org/details/BharatiyaJyotishSastra1

>>>> *Adhikamasa *is a phenomenon recorded in the earliest Veda viz. the

>>>> सूर्य का सौर वर्ष (*सायन मेष राशि से चल कर पुनः सायन मेष राशि पर आने
>>>> तक*) ३६५

>>>> दिन ५ घंटे ४८ मिनट ३५ सेकंड का होता है | इससे प्रति वर्ष १० दिन २१
>>>> घंटे
>>>> ११ से का अंतर आता है | इस लिए ३ वर्षों मैं एक मॉस बड़ा कर सौर और चंद्र
>>>> वर्षों का मेल करते हैं।। यही तेरहवां महीना है जिसको वरुण जानते हैं।
>>>> (Here I have made some minor changes in the duration given by the
>>>> commentators. I have given the difference in mean duration, though
>>>> these
>>>> days adhika-mas is decided on the basis of Apparent longitudes of the
>>>> sun
>>>> and the moon. But in ancient Vedic days, only mean longitudes were
>>>> followed, and even those were not very correct).
>>>> However, what is to be noted here is that the commentators have

>>>> mentioned specifically ''A solar year ranges from one *SAYANA Mesha
>>>> RASHI/SAMKRANTI to the next SAYANA* Mesha Rashi Samkranti "

>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAGfmG5qZeX_OK1n1SritbTFa2w3J_9k-Pzq4gVEaHb2BTtBjqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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[Anand Hudli]

Dear Shri Kaul,

The significance of Nakshatras (sidereal considerations) in the Vedas cannot be ignored in favor of the seasons. We have a description of the nakshatras in the Atharvaveda, Taittiriya Samhita and Brahmana, and the Shatapatha Brahmana. Please see the description of the 28 nakshatras (including Abhijit) in Atharvaveda 19.7.2-5 below:

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.405452/page/n291

There are prescriptions for certain karmas to be performed under certain nakshatras. See, for instance, Taittiriya Brahmana 1.1.2 according to which the consecration of the sacred fire is to be done under the Krttikas. 

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.496177/page/n11

The Vedas also recognize the lunar sidereal month to be the traversal of the moon in the 27 asterisms. This is roughly 27.3 days. This should not be confused with lunar synodic month which is about 29.53 days.

Anand

[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Sir,

     Namaste!

<< The Vedas also recognize the lunar sidereal month to be the traversal of the moon in the 27 asterisms.>>

Could you please give the exact reference (preferably with attachment of the relevant scanned page) ?

Best regards

Narayan Prasad

[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Shri Kaul ji,

  Namaste!

<<It is also surprising as to how these nirayana scholars claim that a lunar new year starts from Lahiri Chaitra, when right from the Surya Siddhanta to Siddhanta Shiromani, (from Alpha to Omega of Siddhantic astronomy!) all the astronomical works advise to make it start from (lunar) Madhu.  The commentators right from Ranganatha to Pandit Sudhakar Dwivedi have named the same Madhu as (lunar) Chaitra.  It is thus clear that because of our ignorance of the siddhantas, we are not celebrating any of the festivals whether lunar or solar, in accordance with any injunctions from the Vedic lore or Pauranic or siddhantic!>>

Then could you give reference of any articles on how to compute अधिकमास and क्षयमास from the reformed Hindu calendar you propose ?

BTW, will there be क्षयमास in the saayana luni-solar calendar ?

As per the sidereal lunar months I have presented the basic concepts and all the required steps how to compute these in my article in 3 installments. 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1HlnTQGjaDtJgckIAeTZANWneBeda-tXL?usp=sharing

In the 1st installment I have presented the basic concepts of अधिकमास and क्षयमास. 

In the 2nd installment I have given the table of all the अधिकमास and क्षयमास occurring between 1800 AD and 2200 AD.

In the 3rd installment, I have presented detailed procedure how to compute अधिकमास and क्षयमास using computer. For a clear understanding of the concept, I have presented the start and end of all the Hindu months for 1982-83 AD in which both अधिकमास and क्षयमास occurred.

Best regards

Narayan Prasad

[Subrahmanyam Korada]

नमो विद्वद्भ्यः

The nomenclature (lunar) Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. has created a lot of confusion as some niraadhar nirayana followers are saying that Chaitra-Shukla Paksha Purnima has to be in (so called) Chitra Nakshatra---that too Lahiri nakshatras!---and then only the month will be named as Chaitra!

Shankar Balkrishan Dikshit has made it very clear that the names Chaitra etc. came into vogue quite late in the day as is clear from the attachment Madhu=Chaitra and no"no Rashis in the Vedas"! 

                                                      ----- Vid A K Kaul

So it is clear that neither yourself nor Dikshit bothered to study Panini and  महाभाष्यम् !

Very recently , in the post ' पाणिनिः - ज्योतिषम् ’ , I touched this aspect of how names such as चैत्रः are evolved - how can one say they are 'vogue quite late in the day ' .

नक्षत्रेण युक्तः कालः , सास्मिन् पौर्णमासीति (पा सू  4-2-3 , 4-2-21 )

I have already made it clear that you are quoting from the Vedic literature that is available now (12 or 13 Branches ) - there are/were 1130 Branches .

Patanjali quotes works like काष्ठम् , मुहूर्तम्  ( सकाष्ठं ज्योतिषमधीते , समुहूर्तं ज्योतिषमधीते -- 

’ग्रन्थान्ताधिके च ’ पा सू  6-3-78 - सह is replaced by स ) । Did Dikshit study these works - when and where ? -  at least does he know such and such  books existed !

One should first study पाणिनीयम्  and then go to other शास्त्र-s , otherwise he cannot do justice - his words cannot be taken as an authority.

More important - one cannot be taken seriously if he does not possess योगिप्रत्यक्षम् ।

Even Amarasimha says - पुष्ययुक्ता पौर्णमासी पौषी मासे तु यत्र सा ।

धन्यो’स्मि

Dr.Korada Subrahmanyam
Professor of Sanskrit, CALTS,
University of Hyderabad,
Ph:09866110741(M),91-40-23010741(R),040-23133660(O)

Skype Id: Subrahmanyam Korada

Blog: Koradeeyam.blogspot.in 

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[A K Kaul]

Respected Dr. BVK Sastry,

Jai Shri Ram!

Many thanks indeed for your long and analytical response!

Obviously, it will go a long way in smoothing the knots into which Indian astronomy/calendar has got entangled.

<"The long short of this model of this debate seems to be  challenging the vedanga Jyotisha discipline and all related professions, communities to discredit it, by attacking the  tools -methods and systems used in it".>

As already clarified several times, I am more of a traditionalist than a reformist, much less a renegade.  

Whether it was phalita jyotish based on Brihat Parashari or Mansagari or even Brighu Samhita and so on, or the traditional astronomy based on Grahalaghava and Makaranda----which were supposed to be further based on the Surya Siddhanta and Aryabhatiya etc., I was a blind follower! 

As there seemed to be a lot of confusion in different panchangas, I had started publishing my own panchanga under the banner "Shri Krishen Universal Ephemeris and Panchang" since 1994 both in Hindi and English, and continued it for several years.(attachment SKUE-1).

Quite a few of my predictions proved correct and I was awarded NOSTRADAMUS AWARD on September 3, 1995, by His Holiness Jagadguru Jayendra Saraswati of Kanchi Kamakoti, at Kanchi.  It was sponsored by Express Star Teller, Chennai, and carried a cash award of Rs. 11000/- (a lot of amount in those days!), plus to and fro air ticket from Delhi to Chennai plus stay at a five star hotel there!

So you can rest assured that there is nothing like "discrediting the communities" much less "challenging the Vedanga-Jyotisha"!

I may also mention here that though I am not an Arya Samajist, but having read the Satyarth Prakash of Swami Dayanand Saraswati, I got a rude shock when I came across his statement that predictive astrology is/was meant only to make a fool of a common man and "janma patrika" (जन्म पत्रिका) must be called a "shoka patrika" (शोक पत्रिका) instead!  (Attachment Dayananda-Jyotish).

And Swami Dayananda Saraswati could not be accused of being some heretic or under the influence of foreign powers to have warned about astrology like that!

Similarly, since I could not find any mention of Mesha etc Rashis in the Vedic lore available with us as on date, it is an insult to the Vedas to call predictive astrology. at least the Rashi-based astrology, as Vedic astrology, especially since there is no mention of any such practice in any of the Vedas (available as on date)! (Attachment Rashis-are-of-Greek-origin, a page from the commentary on the Vedanga Jotisha by Dr. K V Sarma, the famous scholar from Kerala).

Then again, as you claim yourself that the "astrological" planets are entirely different from astronomical planets,  'Hubble telescope, NASA ephemeris based planetary positions are not a substitution or equivalent of ' Yoga-Vision', and 'vedanga jyotisha ganitha'.which means we can not call predictive astrology as "scientific" either!

So predictive astrology as followed by most of us today is neither scientific nor Vedic nor as per any other shastra.

In spite of these facts, I have no right to dissuade anybody from following or practicing predictive astrology with whatever Ayanamsha or technique or Rashicha-Chakra they choose to do so.

But then we have also to safeguard our dharma from anything that is against the letter and spirit of our shastra.

Here there is a direct conflict between the so called nirayana Rashis and our festivals like Makar Sankranti/Pongal or Chaitri Navratra etc. which scholars like you must address.

Your  another main point is

<The concept of ' samvatsara' in the quoted  veda mantras (1/25/8)  and translations of terms ' madhu, madhava, malimlucha,saha, sahasya needs reference back to   Vedanga Nirukta explanations to understand and align them to the use  in vedanga Jyotisha tradition. 

In his commentary on The Rigvedic mantra 1/25/8 

वेद मासो दृत व्रतः द्वादश प्रजावतः। वेदा य उपजायते।।

Acharya Sayana also has confirmed that this mantra is talking about an adhika-masa. (Attachment RV Adhikamasa).  He has taken recourse to Panini and Nirukta etc. in arriving at this conclusion.

3a.      Preference to align X-ian business calendar dates to different dates in traditional  panchanga for a social  convenience:   Where then is the difficulty of modern researchers and critics in understanding the traditional thought? It is in an effort to  align the 'vedanga Jyotisha- Ganita/ panchanga' (used for Veda-Dharma practice)  to the historical alien model of Gregorian calendar used for business The Gregorian calendar is the calendar used in most of the present world. It is named after Pope Gregory XIII, who introduced it in October 1582. The calendar spaces leap years to make the average year 365.2425 days long, approximating the 365.2422-day tropical year that is determined by the Earth's revolution around the Sun. The history of Gregorian calendar goes back to Roman Republic and the Roman Empire  and  Julian calendar, which began in 45 BC,  There was no discontinuity in the cycle of weekdays or of the Anno Domini calendar era. The reform also altered the lunar cycle used by the Church to calculate the date for Easter (computus), restoring it to the time of the year as originally celebrated by the early Church. Due to globalization in the 20th century, the calendar has also been adopted by most non-Western countries for civil purposes. The calendar era carries the alternative secular name of "Common Era".  

Regarding your above point, kindly see the clarification "The last laugh on Ayanamsha Hoax" in the attachment "julian-year-versus-VJ-Year".  There are also some clarifications about the same in the attachment "Samvatsar-11", under the  para "JULIAN NEW YEAR WAS INTRODUCED ON THE BASIS OF 'VEDANGA JYOTISHA'.  It is from one of the pages of my "Shri Krishen Universal Ephemeris & Panchang" for 1999.

It concludes, "Tragically, however, India got stuck with Lahiri and Rome (and the rest of the world) with Julius Caesar.  Neither cared for the Vedic Uttarayana or the New Moon after that"

Thus it is an open secret that Julian calendar of 45 bc was based on the Vedanga Jyotisha of 15th century BCE

                                                                                            *******************

This discussion is a actually about the fact whether the panchangas we are following these days like the Rashtriya Panchang (based on "almighty" Lahiri Ayanamsha) or the ones like "Kashi Vishva Panchang" from the BHU, Varanasi, supposed to be based on the Surya Siddhanta/Makaranda with some so called beeja corrections and so on is as per our shastras or not.

We also find that some Sansthans of venerable jagadgurus are following some Vakya-panchangas.

May I ask you a simple question, sir!

Which of these Panchangas, according to you, is in accordance with the Vedic, Pauranik and siddhantic lore and how?

Since you appear to be favouring a panchanga based on "yogic intuition" instead of NASA data, that means at least the Rashtriya Panchang and all the other Panchangas based on the same are ruled out according to you.

And IMHO, at least 90 per cent Hindus of Bharata-Varsha are following Lahiri panchanga  for not only predictive astrology but all their religious festivals and muhurtas and so on.

Thus you are yourself more or less of the same view that about 90 per cent of the Hindu population is following a wrong panchang though because of different reasons.

Kindly do correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding the Vedic year vis-a-vis our shastra, I shall send you a detailed write up after hearing from you.

With kind regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

On Tue, 16 Jul 2019, 20:06 Dr BVK Sastry, <sastr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Namaste

 

1.     The exchanges in this post seem to be taking off the line of tradition; and also charging the followers of traditional texts look as 'sheep flock, making a blind following since the time of Aryabhatta' ! So may be it.

 

·        The long short of this model of this debate seems to be  challenging the vedanga Jyotisha discipline and all related professions, communities to discredit it, by attacking the  tools -methods and systems used in it.

·        If really the intention is to get the stated benefits of vedanga jyotisha, and understand 'why-how' of the tradition, a different approach in education-training, study, practice, research in vedanga jyotisha in alignment with the yoga- tradition needs to be reinstated.

·        Misconstruing the texts of tradition, quoting practice abuse, inappropriate pedagogy and distorted translations is not the way bring glory to the 'bhaarateeya sampradaya'.

·        If we have not understood the 'sampradaya' , let us work to understand it the way it was designed and is recommended for use,  before casting aspersions and discrediting the discipline.   The people of past centuries are not going to rise from grave to defend charges made on them now !

·        Vedanga Jyotisha or Vedas never claimed to be the documents of season studies, rain fall, sky- objects-study. The 'Grahas- Nakshatras' of Vedanga Jyotisha are Devataas.

·        They are not floating matter in void ,  devoid of consciousness, unconnected with any human life event, burning matter to generate light and heat, measured as

·        electromagnetic energy.   

·        The concept of ' samvatsara' in the quoted  veda mantras (1/25/8)  and translations of terms ' madhu, madhava, malimlucha,saha, sahasya needs reference back to   

Vedanga Nirukta explanations to understand and align them to the use  in vedanga Jyotisha tradition. Rigveda 1-164-48 is an iconic desclription and NOT time specifying standard or poetry of season - phenomenon explanation.  This cannot be done without a proper understanding of Paninian vedanga Vyakarana.

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Jai Shri Ram, AKK-ji.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2019, A K Kaul <jyot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Tuvij,
Jai Shri Ram!

<Erroneous judgement to see relative movement between seasons (say, solstices) and mAsa-s of panchAnga as a defect:

In reality this "defect" is deliberate and lets the logic of yuga-s (kali etc) work out within the panchanga framework.>

As adhikamasa is a phenomenon going on since the earliest viz. the Rig-Veda ( 1/25/8 

वेदमासो धृत व्रतो द्वादश प्रजावतः |  वेदा य उपजायते) it has nothing to do with any yuga including the Kaliyuga!

I never said that adhikamasa has something to do with Kaliyuga. Anyway the presence of adhikamasa in Veda makes it clear that the (mainstream) panchanga has always been luni-solar : i.e. neither solar, nor lunar. I remember some old references that even talk about paksha-s in the core Vaidika mAsa-s such as tapah etc.

 

Even otherwise also, the Kali Era that is given in the Panchangas and which we are following has absolutely no basis, either astronomical or scientific nor even scriptural.

It has come into vogue from about 499 AD when Aryabhata claimed in his Aryabhatiya that he was 23 years old when 3600 years of Kaliyuga had elapsed.

<mAgha is no ordinary mAsa and the start of the present kali is linked to WS in mAgha. In fact mAgha in Hindu panchAnga has some invariant properties that help us identify even the nakshatra (hence rAshi) framework changes over really long periods of time>

Present Kaliyuga is supposed to have started on either Ujjain mean midnight of February 17/18, 3102 BCE at Ujjain (as per the Surya Siddhanta) or at about 6-00 am of Ujjain mean time at Ujjain on February 18, 3102 BCE as per Aryabhatiya!  (Just see the confusion here also!)  

As per the attachment Kali-zero planets, it was the Vedic month of Tapasya/Phalguna then.  The Winter Solstice was on January 13/14 in 3102 BCE.  That means it was more than a month before the so called (current) Kaliyuga started.

You mean WS was near the start of mAgha (when Kali was about to start), right? This is what I meant, too.

Even then - though your calculations exactly support my statement - I'm presently cautious of calculations correlating ancient panchanga dates with the gregorian.

 

<The problem is, such intricate subjects cannot be done justice with in decrepit Indian University system, or for that matter committees lorded by comrades.>

The problem of calendar reform has been going on for the last more than two hundred years.  The late Pandit S B Dikshit had done a Herculean job and started publishing a Panchanga as per the injunctions of shastras with expenses from his own pocket without any subsidy from anybody.

But because of vested interests he had to close it!

Pandit Dikshit was neither a comrade nor a faculty member of any decrepit University!

Efforts have been going on ever since.

The Calendar Reform Committee of 1954-55 had invited suggestions/objections from one and all.  Almost every Panchanga-maker had participated in it.

The Committee had arrived at a uniform decision that a (so called) Sayana calendar should be followed.  But again, it was derailed by vested interests including its Secretary, late N C Lahiri who was publishing his own (Nirayana, of course!) Lahiri Panchang in Bangla and Lahiri's Indian Ephemeris in English!

As I've said before we need to be wary of Lahiri or any other formula for correlating ancient panchanga dates with the gregorian.

As a general rule when one talks about means and perturbations, one must understand that cumulative errors are bound to increase over large spans (of time). (are choas-theoretic aspects not at play?)

Perhaps scholars at this forum (who have worked with/ made such algorithms; e.g. open-source "Pancanga 3.14") should shed more light on this. This will help others to develop (if needed) one in quick time.

 

<And I don't see BVP as a right platform either.>

Honestly, I wonder as to if a forum like BVP which has a galaxy of Samskrit scholars of extraordinary caliber in almost all the disciplines is not the right platform for this arduous but the most essential chore, which other forum is!

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

On this point I concede my mistake for making that remark. Perhaps with time permitting I should start a separate thread explaining in precise terms my defence of luni-solar traditional panchanga from first principles, as well as covering its evolution, and what needs to be done.

A last remark: Hindu panchanga is neither siderial nor tropical.

 

[Dr BVK Sastry]

Namaste

 

1. Good to know that  you are  < more of a traditionalist than a reformist, much less a renegade. >  and you are also a <  publishing own panchanga> .

  

 

2.  Good to know  that  your < predictions proven correct>   you were awarded < Nostradamus award ...> .  That is not the logical basis to establish the science of Vedanga Jyotisha.  One needs to discover/ Vision  the Universal law . The validity of vijnana is two ways: Explain the phenomenon and events of past by time ( Bhoota- kaala darshana/ The rear view mirror). And see through the time in future ( Bhavishyat Kaala darshana/ The front wind shield through which one has to see for driving  forward)  and track them. Many people claim the validity for  Bhavishyat  based on their ability to look at the past.  This is the trap of many renowned astrologers. The claim for seeing - future  because they were able to analyze the past !  The two skills of seeing the Time in backwards unwinding and forward revealing are different, by skills, ganitha, yoga. The jyotishi who ends with a past analyst skill and reputation is a ' post-mortem surgeon' working on a dead body.  The jyotishi who desires to work and guide for a better future needs  past analysis and anlyst; but has to go far beyond to integrate the present and future ; this is a skill, intuition and certainly a  'ganitha' involved too much. The reputation of a Jyotishi who works on this line takes time to get validated . Such a person is like a Olympics coach and doctor for an olympics athlete.  They have to work with live bodies, forces and ' Ishwara- anugraha'. The real tragedy is ' India has many Jyotishis who live by 'post-mortem model glory'  and less by 'Vedanga - Jyotir-yoga' standards.  The fight on ganitha and panchanga will simply disapper if ' one as a practicing Jyotishi' can see the ' Samvatsara chakra - as Kaala-gati' in ones own body, breath and thought ( Shareeram Vishwam; Shareera graha-nakshatra mandalam; surya atmaa- Manah chandrah- nakshatraani roopam).  This is when astrologer becomes a Jyotiryogi. then this debate on panchanga is meaningless .  Your own body tells you which is the right pancha-anga   that is working for you and the  query maker. Why ? That opens the door to the understanding of Gita (11-32) - Kalosmi - I am the TIME ;  and Vishwaroopa darshana when ' Shashi is told as a Nakshatra ( nakshatraanaam aham shashi - Gita  10-21); No Panchanga in the tradition  works  on this Gita  sloka.  Again, we talk so much of 'dwadasha -aadityas' but show me one Panchanga which has shown more than  one Surya ??   But, when it comes to Prashna, the lagna ( time of query), the Manas (chandra, chandra nakshatra) from drik or valya works beautifully ! How ? Why ? When it comes to muhurtha, Surya in uccha / Ekadasha by vaky or drik works good. Why ?

 

 

I hope i have made a pointer for your further thought, to explore where 'Panchaga ganitha stops' and 'Vedanga jyotisha stops'.

 

Regards

 

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

 

Till then, Happy debate.

 

 

Regards

BVK Sastry

 

 

 

From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of A K Kaul
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 6:24 PM
To: Bharatiya Vidvat parishad
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Rule for अधिकमास - no correction necessary at any future date ?

 

Respected Dr. BVK Sastry,

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[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Shri Kaul ji,

       Namaste !

 

<<Quite a few of my predictions proved correct and I was awarded NOSTRADAMUS AWARD on September 3, 1995, by His Holiness Jagadguru Jayendra Saraswati of Kanchi Kamakoti, at Kanchi.  It was sponsored by Express Star Teller, Chennai, and carried a cash award of Rs. 11000/- (a lot of amount in those days!), plus to and fro air ticket from Delhi to Chennai plus stay at a five star hotel there!>>

It was a pleasure to know this.

Could you please indicate what अयनांश you used for predictive purposes?

(It is preferable to reply this query under a different subject.)

Best regards

Narayan Prasad

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[Anand Hudli]

On Thursday, July 18, 2019 at 8:33:28 PM UTC+5:30, Narayan Prasad wrote:

Dear Sir,

     Namaste!

<< The Vedas also recognize the lunar sidereal month to be the traversal of the moon in the 27 asterisms.>>

Could you please give the exact reference (preferably with attachment of the relevant scanned page) ?

Dear Shri Narayan Prasad,

Please see the link below to the Vedanga Jyotisha (Yajurvedic version) for a reference to the sidereal month called stRmAsa:

https://archive.org/details/VedangaJyotisha/page/n77

Anand

[Prakash Raj Pandey]

Namaste

Firstly we must recognise that pursuing the history of astronomy since the days of Vedas, and fitting our panchangas to positions and motion of the "planets" as we see them in the sky today are completely two different subjects. 

Such discussions are further complicated by arguments whether our festivals should be aligned with the seasons -- Navaratra in Sharad and Holi in Vasanta -- or should be aligned with lunar months --  Navaratra in Ashvina and Holi in Falguna. ( I am in favour of celebrating festivals in the  lunar months as provided in texts such as Nirnayasindhu. But as this thread is about adhimasa, I would not venture into this contentious issue.) 

It is further complicated by whether months Madhu, Madhava correspond to Chaitra, etc, or are two different sets. 

There are also some who regard later day improvements as "imports" but others see them as "organic developments".

This discussion has brought to light most of the issues.

Let me add one piece of information on adhimasa from Panchasiddhantika of Varahamihira when he describes the Paitamaha Siddhanta: 
 
रविशशिनोः पञ्च युगं वर्षाणि पितामहोपदिष्टानि । 
अधिमासास्त्रिंशद्भिर्मासैरवमो द्विषष्ट्या तु ॥१॥

The Sanskrit tika is by Sudhakar Dvivedi: 

रविशशिनो रविचन्द्रयोर्युगं पञ्चवर्षात्मकं भवतीति पितामहेन पञ्चवर्षाण्युपदिष्टानि तथा त्रिंशद्भिर्मासैरेकोऽधिमासो दिनानां द्विषष्ट्याऽवमं चैकमित्येतानि सर्वाणि ब्रह्मणा कथितानि।

Thibaut's translation: 
According to the teaching of Pitamaha five years constitute a yuga of the sun and moon. The adhimasas are brought about by thirty months, and an omitted lunar day (avama) by sixty-two days. 


In those days a solar year was of 366 days, so the 5 years would of 1,830 days.

In the five-year period there would be two adhimasas (one in each 30 month period).  So the tithis (without considering omitted days) would be, 62*30= 1,860. 

Now by dividing 1,860 by 62 we get, 30 avama days, and when we subtract 30 from 1860, we get 1830, which is number of the days of  5 solar years. 

The 5 solar years and 5 lunar years, thus, terminate at the same point, and a new yuga starts. 

Now there is one problem, the solar year is not of 366 days, but of 365 days plus approx. 6 hours. So it is not clear how that extra 18 hours was taken care of. 

The book I have downloaded is one digitized by Google. 

Please pardon my transgression in the field where the learned are discussing. 

Prakash

[A K Kaul]

Respected Dr. BVK Sastry,

Jai Shri Ram!

Many thanks for your prompt response.

<Good to know  that  your < predictions proven correct>   you were awarded < Nostradamus award ...> .  That is not the logical basis to establish the science of Vedanga Jyotisha.  One needs to discover/ Vision  the Universal law . The validity of vijnana is two ways: Explain the phenomenon and events of past by time ( Bhoota- kaala darshana/ The rear view mirror). And see through the time in future ( Bhavishyat Kaala darshana/ The front wind shield through which one has to see for driving  forward)  and track them. Many people claim the validity for  Bhavishyat  based on their ability to look at the past.  This is the trap of many renowned astrologers. The claim for seeing - future  because they were able to analyze the past !  The two skills of seeing the Time in backwards unwinding and forward revealing are different, by skills, ganitha, yoga. The jyotishi who ends with a past analyst skill and reputation is a ' post-mortem surgeon' working on a dead body.  The jyotishi who desires to work and guide for a better future needs  past analysis and anlyst; but has to go far beyond to integrate the present and future ; this is a skill, intuition and certainly a  'ganitha' involved too much. The reputation of a Jyotishi who works on this line takes time to get validated . Such a person is like a Olympics coach and doctor for an olympics athlete.  They have to work with live bodies, forces and ' Ishwara- anugraha'. The real tragedy is ' India has many Jyotishis who live by 'post-mortem model glory'  and less by 'Vedanga - Jyotir-yoga' standards. >

As far as predictive astrology is concerned, it does not appear to have been the fulcrum of our astronomical works either right from the Alpha viz. the Vedanga Jyotisham of Lagadha of 15th century BCE to Omega viz. the Siddhanta Shiromani of Bhaskarcharya of 12th century AD on the basis of which we decide our festivals and muhurtas etc.

This is clear from the two attachments VJ-jyotisham, a page from the VJ, which states 

quote

The Vedas have indeed been revealed for the sake of performance of sacrifices.  These sacrifices are dependent on various segments of time.  Therefore, only he who knows the lore of time, viz. jyotisham, understands the performance of sacrifices. (Dr. KV  Sarma translation)

unquote

Similarly, Bhaskaracharya-II also seems to be exactly echoing the VJ with the following words

वेदस्तावद्यज्ञ कर्म प्रवृत्ताः  यज्ञा: प्रोक्तास्तु ते कालाश्रयेन|| शास्त्रादस्मात्  काल  बोधो यतः स्यत् वेदाङ्गत्वं ज्योतिषस्योक्तमस्मात् || 

Here Bhaskaracharya has  emphasized that since the  jyotisha shastra is meant for deciding the proper timings for yajnyas, that is why it is known as a Vedanga!

(P. see attachments VJ-Jyotisham and Bhaskaracharya-Jyotish)

That is why I had said that  predictive astrology is neither Vedic, nor Pauranik, nor sidhantic nor even scientific!  On the other hand, according to Swami Dayanada Saraswati, an extraordinary scholar of the Vedic lore, predictive astrology is meant only to make a fool of a common man!

The main topic of this discussion being the "Calendar reform", I had requested you to let me have your views about the niraadhar Lahiri Ayanmasha Pnahcnagas (and the SS Panchanga of BHU etc.) which are being followed by about 90 per cent of the Hindus. I have yet to have any response from you.

For your kind information, the two attachments "VKS-Rashi1 and VKSRashi-2" are a commentary on III/23-25 of Panchasiddhantika  by one of the most reputed astronomers of Kerala viz. Dr. K V Sarma.

He has thundered

Quote

"At the first point of Mesha and Tula are the spring and autumnal equinoxes (and the sacred days thereof are when the Sun is there).  

"The equinoxes i.e. the points of intersection between the ecliptic and the celestial equator, though moving westward slowly along the ecliptic, were at the first point of Mesha and Tula only at the time of the author.  At the present day the equinoxes have moved far into Uttara-Bhadrapada and Uttara-Phalguni, but the sacred days are still observed with the sun entering Mesha and Tula (nirayana) by blind routine....

"As the seasons depend upon the position of the mid-day sun in the sky and the length of day time, and these depend on the Sun's declination depending on tropical (sayana) longitude of the Sun, the seasonal months are different from either the solar sidereal months Mesha etc. or  the synodic months Chaitra etc. and these cannot correctly represent the seasons.  That is why the Vedas give a new set of months, (actually tropical months) for the seasons....This confusion has resulted in Madhu, Madhava etc. and Chaitra, Vaishakha etc. as synonyms.  People who know are amused, when in the sankalpa recited for Hindu rituals the month of Vrishabha, which is advanced summer, is mentioned as spring.! 

Unquote

I think it is high time that scholars like you do something about rectifying the situation, as otherwise a time will come when we will be celebrating Pongal (Makar Samkranti!) on the day of Dakshinayana (around June 21,) (Karkata Samkranti) instead of Uttarayana (December 21/22) in the name of Lahiri predictive astrology and Lahiri nakshatras!

With kind regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

[A K Kaul]

Dear Shri Warrier,

Jai Shri Ram!

<Currently, many in India celebrate Uttaraayana (winter solstice) on January 14th, although the actual event is on December 21.  There is thus a difference of 24 days.  Does it mean that both (the actual and that which is celebrated) coincided 1693 years ago?  Then it would mean that the present sidereal calendar came into existence at that time.  >

There  was never any nirayana (which is really niraadhaar!, called euphemistically as sidereal), calendar in India.

The Vedas talk of a seasonal (thus a tropical) year, the Puranas talk of a seasonal (thus a tropical) year and the siddhantas talk of a seasonal (i.e. a tropical) year.

Nirayana is thus an aberration which arose because of the mismatch between what the Surya Siddhanta and other siddhantas wanted to project but what their calculations yielded!

The Surya Siddhanta cried from housetops in its Maanadhyaya, 7th, 9th and 10th shloka

भचक्रनाभौ विषुवत् द्वितयं समसूत्रगम् | अयन द्वितयं चैव चतस्रः प्रथितास्तु ताः ||

भानोर्मकर संक्रान्तेः षण्मासाः उत्तरायणम् ||  कर्क्यादेस्तथैव स्यात् षण्मासाः दक्षिणायनं ||

द्विराशिमानाद् ऋतवः षडुक्ताः शिशिरादयः || मेषादयो द्वादशैते मासासैस्तैरेव वत्सरः ||

Bapu Dev Sastri has translated these as

"In the middle of the starry sphere, the two equinoxes are diametrically opposed, so are the two solstices (in the ecliptic) those four points are very common.

"From the time of the sun's entrance into Capricorn the six solar months are the Uttarayana (the northing of the Sun): in the same manner from the time of the entrance of the Sun into Cancer, the six solar months are the Dakshinayana (the Southing of the Sun).  From that time (i.e. the Winter Solstice) the periods, in each of which the Sun remains in the two signs are the seasons Shishira (the very cold season) etc. and the twelve periods in the sun remains in the 12 signs of Aries etc. are the solar months and a year is equal to the aggregate of those months."

It is quite evident from the above that the SS had never even imagined anything nirayana!

Though the Surya Siddhanta claims that it is a work that was "revealed" to Maya Mahasura at the fag end of the last kritayuga which, according to the same work was around in (3101 +2019=) 5120 years of Kaliyuga + 864000 years of Dwapara + 1296000 years of Treta = 2165120 years back, but its calculations tell us that it is a best-fit for Shaka 444 i.e. 522 AD when its mean longitudes correspond almost exactly to the mean longitudes as per modern astronomy. 

There also, it is the tropical mean longitudes and not any Lahiri or Ramana etc. longitudes.  (Pl see attachment Shaka444).

That means this work (the SS) was compiled in the early centuries of CE, irrespective of what the so called Maya Mahasura has claimed!

And that is why Munjal of tenth century AD had advised in his Laghumanasa to make an addition of one arc-minute per year to the mean longitudes of the planets obtained from the Surya Siddhanta etc. works so as to make them "drik-tulya".

In around 505 AD Varahamihira had claimed in his "Panchasiddhantika" स्पष्टतरो सावित्रः" i.e the Surya Siddhanta was the most accurate (astronomical work).  Exactly like the SS, VM also had said in the same Panchasiddhantika 3/26

उदगयनं मकरादावृतवः शिशिरादयश्च सूर्य वशात्। द्विभवनकाल समानं दक्षिणमयनं च कर्कटात्।।

"The sun's turning northward is when it reaches the zero point of Makara i.e. at Winter Solstice, and it's turning southwards is at the zero point of Karkata i.e. at Summer Solstice, with the attendant sacred days.  The seasons Shishir etc. commence with the Winter Solstice and each season lasts two tropical months". (Translation by K V Sarma).

505 AD was 17 years before the year of the best-fit of the SS.  Therefore, the Makar Sankranti as per the calculations of (Panchasiddhantika) SS did not coincide with Uttarayana exactly.  Varahamihira started getting jittery and he exclaimed in is Brihatsamhita 3/4-5

अप्राप्य मकरमर्को विनिवृत्तो हन्ति सापरां याम्याम् | कर्कटमसंप्राप्तो विनिवृत्तश्चोत्तरां सैन्द्रीम् ||

"If the sun turns North without reaching the Makar Samkranti, it kills the people of Western and Southern directions.  Similarly, without reaching Karkata, if it turns North, it destroys the people of East and Northern directions"!

This is exactly what is happening these days!  The sun is turning North i.e. it is Uttarayana (Winter Solstice!) on December 21 whereas the "almighty" Lahiri Makar Samkranti (and also the BHU Surya Siddhanti Makar Samkranti and maybe even as per "Vakya Panchangas"!) it is taking place on January 14/15----after about 24 days of Uttarayana! 

And we are celebrating such a Makar Samkranti which is supposed to be killing the inhabitants of Western and Southern directions of the country!

Similarly, the sun is turning South these days i.e. Dakshinayana (Summer Solstice) takes place on June 21 whereas the sun enters "almighty"  Lahiri Karkata Rashi and the BHU SS Karkata Rashi and also probably "Vakya-Panchanga" Karkata Rashi  on July 14/15  i.e. 24 days after Dakshinayana!

And it is supposed to be killing the inhabitants of East and Northern directions!  And we are celebrating such a Karkata Samkranti.

If VM had envisaged a so called sidereal Makar or Karkata etc. Samkrantis, he would never have expected them to coincide with Uttarayana/Dakshinayana for more than a few years and so on.  

Adhika-Kshyaya Masah:

There is no separate lunar year!  We subsume synodic lunar  months into "almighty" Lahiri solar months.  And if there are two New Moons between two "Lahiri" Samkrantis, we call it an adhikamasa. And if there is no New Moon between two "Lahiri" Samkrantis, we call it a kshyaya masa!

It is just the whim and fancy of the present Panchanga makers and has no sanction from any shastra, as repeated umpteen number of times!

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

On Tue, 16 Jul 2019, 09:19 Radhakrishna Warrier, <radwa...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"That might have been during the reign of the famous Bhoja Raja thought to be a contemporary of Kalidasa.".

I think I might be wrong.  

[Narayan Prasad]

Dear Shri Kaul ji,

    Namaste!

<< As far as predictive astrology is concerned, it does not appear to have been the fulcrum of our astronomical works either right from the Alpha viz. the Vedanga Jyotisham of Lagadha of 15th century BCE to Omega viz. the Siddhanta Shiromani of Bhaskarcharya of 12th century AD  >>

Here, I would like to quote two passages from the opinions of C.G. Rajan who was an expert in Astrology, Hindu Astronomy and Mathematics:

[Ref: Saptarishi Nadi, Kataka Lagnam, Madras Government Oriental Series, 1958]

"The human desire to link the heavenly bodies with man so far as their effects on man were concerned, has been responsible for the growth of Astronomy and for this reason, Astrology is very often said to be the Nursing-Mother or Foster-Mother of Astronomy. Astrology, Astronomy and Mathematics, which is required for the growth of the first two, are sister-sciences and always go together, as if they are Triumvirates and consequently most of the eminent scientists of the mental calibre of Newton and Kepler were generally conglomerations of Mathematicians, Astronomers and Astrologers." [Introduction, p.xxiii]

"If astrology is really false and if there is no truth at all in it, it would not have had its fascination and strong hold on the masses and on even many educated and cultured persons including great mathematicians, scientists, politicians, physicians, surgeons, priests, historians and philosophers from the earliest times ... Socrates, Pythagoras, Aristotle, Plato, Porphyry and Hippocrates, the Father of Medicine, were all believers in the doctrines of astrology." [Introduction, p.xxxi]

Best regards
Narayan Prasad

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[A K Kaul]

Dear Shri Narayan Prasad ji, 

Jai Shri Ram!

Kindly read my statement again.

I have talked about astronomical works from the Vedanga Jyotisham of Lagadha (15th century BCE) to the Siddhanta Shiromani of Bhaskaracharya-II (12th century AD).

Jyotisha as Vedanga is wrongly supposed to be predictive astrology when both these astronomers have declared jyotisham as a Vedanga for deciding proper timings of performing sacrifices.

Predictive astrology is the art of making correct predictions from incorrect data and it is directly related to intuition or may be even divine grace!

With regards and Jai Shri Ram!

A K Kaul

PS

There are quite a few mails with me awaiting a response.

I shall be replying them shortly.

AKK

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