How to count "akshara" in तत्सवितुर्वरेण्यं
Vineet Chaitanya
उ॒ज्ज्व॒लः
Nagaraj Paturi
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAK5aoV%3Da4ZKq%3D9Gs94juZK6H8iRSy%3DGR_Q4SSjrOkWaoCAoszA%40mail.gmail.com.
Sreejit Datta
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAJGj9eakup_Qt2q3fOKYszik8a8nYzj2Usq9zaAY6c3VS-CuGw%40mail.gmail.com.
Venkatakrishna Sastry
Namaste
I made a simple table, as below, to see how would this mantra -akshara classification by scripting, saying and transliteration models.
The ' akshara- count' traditionally refers to ' varna- akshara -svara' combine' as basis for classification.( This accounts for the time , elongation:: maatraa -kaala, accents).
The script based ' akshara classification is helpful to identify the units -sequence needed for pronunciaiton; but may need a different template to calculate the 'akshara -count/ word -letter unit count'.
Still contemplating on the implication of this analysis .
| BY SCRIPTING CONVENTION OF DEVANAGARI (CURRENT PERIOD ) | Laghu-guru prastara of Chandas (Laghu- ऽ; Guru- | ) | IAST Transliterated | ISO1919 |
1 | त (1) | | | ta (1) | ta (1) |
2 | त्स ( 2) | ऽ
| tsa ( 2) | tsa ( 2) |
3 | वि (3) | ऽ | vi (3) | vi (3) |
4 | तु (4) | | | tu (4) | tu (4) |
5 | र्व (5) | ऽ | rva (5) | rva (5) |
6 | रे (6) | | | re (6) | rē (6) |
7 | णि( 7) | ऽ | ṇi( 7) | ṇi( 7) |
8 | यं( 8)
| | | yaṃ( 8)
| yaṁ( 8)
|
9 | भ (1) | | | bha (1) | bha (1) |
10 | र्गो ( 2) | | | rgo ( 2) | rgō ( 2) |
11 | दे (3) | | | de (3) | dē (3) |
12 | व (4) | | | va (4) | va (4) |
13 | स्य (5) | ऽ | sya (5) | sya (5) |
14 | धी (6) | | | dhī (6) | dhī (6) |
15 | म ( 7) | ऽ | ma ( 7) | ma ( 7) |
16 | हि ( 8)
| ऽ | hi ( 8)
| hi ( 8)
|
17 | धि (1) | ऽ | dhi (1) | dhi (1) |
18 | यो ( 2) | | | yo ( 2) | yō ( 2) |
19 | यो (3) | | | yo (3) | yō (3) |
20 | नः (4) | | | naḥ (4) | naḥ (4) |
21 | प्र (5) | ऽ | pra (5) | pra (5) |
22 | चो (6) | | | co (6) | cō (6) |
23 | द ( 7) | ऽ | da ( 7) | da ( 7) |
24 | यात् ( 8)
| | | yāt– ( 8)
| yāt– ( 8)
|
Regards
BVK Sastry
Vineet Chaitanya
आप वर्णविच्छेद करके स्वरों की संख्या गिन सकते हैं। वही अक्षरसंख्या है।
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/4d98c7fb-ce75-4558-ac0b-0fa8d5730d1en%40googlegroups.com.
vasantkumar bhatt
Vineet Chaitanya
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/BMXPR01MB22803DB35BF1FF34EC38EEF2BB290%40BMXPR01MB2280.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
Vineet Chaitanya
Ashish Sharma
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/5f5744ca.1c69fb81.dad82.42bd%40mx.google.com.
Ashish Sharma
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAK5aoVm7AzoMq%2Br5CFmu7Rwk0mEpQgMWia%2BpUctfiK5K%2Bi9V9g%40mail.gmail.com.
Nagaraj Paturi
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAA2tTo4Xo7qPwra%2BS1t0a464nBGoJ1jJ%2BMHjOPT5OL_D0SuHfA%40mail.gmail.com.
vasantkumar bhatt
Sivasenani Nori
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/BMXPR01MB2280129CEFB28C5E676FDDA2BB270%40BMXPR01MB2280.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
Madhav Deshpande
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/BMXPR01MB2280129CEFB28C5E676FDDA2BB270%40BMXPR01MB2280.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
Ashok Aklujkar
Thomson, Karen and Jonathan Slocum, eds. 2006. The Rigveda: Metrically Restored Text. A corrected version of the preceding. Linguistics Research Center, The University of Texas at Austin.
Venkatakrishna Sastry
Namaste Ashish Sharma
I am responding to your question in two parts. First part is from Classical langauge position. Second is from Vedanga Jyotisha position.
Classical langauge position: The conceptualization of 'AKSHARA' for ' articulation ( uccharana)' - is not dependnet upon the scripting mode.
The < वरेण्यं and वरेणियम् > difference carries articulation place and effort differences ( sthana-prayatna of ' VARNA- AKSHARA SAMYOGA/ AANUPOORVI' ) .
Different splits- differing results is the simple logic and insight. Wave graphs will be different for both. This has a pointer to the right teaching - learning- use of Gaayatri mantra per veda.
ण्यं = (ण् + य् + अनुस्वार ) = मूर्धानुनासिक व्यञ्जन + अन्तस्थ व्यञ्जन + अनुनासिक व्यञ्जन transformed to अनुस्वार = एकाक्षर - ( गुरु अक्षर)
णि-य-म् = ( ण् + इ + य + म् ) = मूर्धानुनासिक व्यञ्जन + तालु स्वर + अन्तस्थ व्यञ्जन + अर्धाक्षर ओष्ठ अनुनासिक व्यञ्जन = अक्षर द्वय or सार्ध-अक्षर-द्वय (लघु- गुरु अक्षर )
I hope that this detailing helps you to see the difference: ( I have not elaborated on Swara and Kaala- bala - samyoga -devataa - part, speed of pronunciaiton called ' gati', level of ' japa'-pronunciation called loud- soft/ upaamshu - maanasa . These details are public knowledge in practicing tradition for over a millennia ; and are part of Samskruth Vyakarana studies in ' Vaidika -Sandhya- vidhi/ training and practice'.
This entirety is technically called ' Maitra- upaasanaa':: (simply) tri-kaala sandhyaavandanam'.
The importance of this is explained by Manu: : कुर्यात्- अन्यत्- न - वा - कुर्यात्, मैत्रो ब्राह्मण उच्यते . Each of the gaayatri mantras in practice as मानव- गायत्री , विश्वामित्र गायत्री, देवता-विशिष्ट गायत्री are different. (Detailing on this is not needed at this point.)
The same mantra occuring in two different vedas with different applications -context invoke different langauge- context sensitive phonation and articulation related praatishaakhya rules.
To learn the details of these, for practice and application, one needs a full theory and practical discourse on' Shikhsaa and Pratishaakhya of each veda and prayoga -difference' . That is learning the theory and practice of the phonation of sounds and sequences as prescribed for ' Chandas' and ' Bhashaa' parts. Scripting is an important necessary part of document; but not sufficient.
This part of ' Oral and Practical Traditional knowledge' has sufferend a great deal in the past three centuries due to several reasons. One of the main reasons being dismemberment of 'Yoga' part of Samskrutham, known as ' Vak-yoga' in Vedas. The agencies responsible for this dismemberment are the educational institution syllabus makers themselves.
In the current mode, Panini studies have taken approach of ' historic langauge -study model' than the real traditional guidance as ' Muni-Traya Sampradaya with anchor to srimad Bhagavad-gita - Vak-yoga sampradaya'. The technical definition of Muni comes from Gita: मुनिर्मोक्ष-परायणः ( यतेन्द्रियमनोबुद्धिर्मुनिर्मोक्षपरायण: | विगतेच्छाभयक्रोधो य: सदा मुक्त एव स: ||५-२८|| ) . Therefore, Munitraya sampradaya needs to be understood as 'Moksha parayana- (Yoga) Traya sampradaya'.
The contribution of 'Astrologers and ayurveda practitioners' is no less in making this damage to ' Veda and Samskruth studies'. Assessing this damage and setting a course correction for this is a different issue , which can not be detailed on a public forum exchange of views.
Vedanga Jyotisha position: I am responding on this second part as I notice your signature line reading < OSD to the President Indian Council of Astrological Sciences > . If in the tradiiton, as Prof. B.V. Raman said, Jytoisha and Vastu are in reality ' Vedanga / Upa-Vedanga', the veda -mantras provide the 'parihara':: remedial solutions for human problems. The two versions of gayatri mantra < वरेण्यं and वरेणियम् > have different ' parihara- phala', as they belong to different vedas and different aplication modes. The apparent split in script is not due to scripting convention. It is not even slackness of pronunciation, regional difference, deviant pronunciation ( = Desha- Vaktru - kaala - uccharana bheda/ dosha ).
It is a specificity of ' Articualtion for Meditation to delvier a 'phala- parihara'. In the current period, the teaching and practitioners of ' Jyotish' seem to carry fancy ideas of ' Graha-chaara related Phala- Parihara' . Much of the prevelant practice of yajna-vidhi, mantra parihara prescription and consumer practice needs a tremendous clean up for langauge and yoga-science part of it.
This dimension of 'Vednaga Jyotisha' is known only to some of the senior members, in your central body. This area is a very special Vedanga Jyotisha related research and can not be elaborated in detail on a public forum post like this.
Suffice it to say, the question you have asked has < Deep Insights, linked to the right understanding and practice of ' Jyotisha ( Astrology) as ' Vedanga- Jyotisha' ( Veda- Yoga Science of Divine , the TIME -Yoga :: Kaala-Yoga). The applications relate to the right diagnostics using D-20 chart and identification of right ' Graha-Devataa- Mantra Gayatri for the four Purusharthas, linking it to the dasha-bhukti-antara up to Sookshma- Prana dasha. The ' AKSHARAS/ BEEJA-AKSHARAS ' of Mantra have ' Devataa association' and ' PRAANA- YOGA' association. The split of < वरेण्यं and वरेणियम् > splits the 'Devataa - Prana - yoga'. The out come will be different.
In this sense, Doctor and Jyotishi both have to depend upon the ' TRUST' of the ' SEEKER- Client'. It is a call for responsible and respectable practice of Vedanga Jyotisha.
If a doctor advises/ administers wrong medicine, using wrong diagnostics, the health of patient gets affected.
Similalry ,if Vedanga Jyotishi advises/ administers wrong Mantra/ Prayoga, using wrong and non-vedic/ non-yogic diagnostics, the ' Swasthya- Saukhya:: health and wellness, the KARMA of patient gets affected. There are social and spiritual consequences.
Veda is called ' MANTRA '. Veda is realized and adminsitered through YOGA. The Langauge of Mantra , Veda, Yoga is called SAMSKRUTHAM. The vedic name of Samskrutham is VAK-YOGA.
In this sense, VEDNAGA JYOTISHA means 'MANTRA- ANGA - JYOTISHA/ YOGA- ANGA - JYOTISHA/ SAMSKRUTHA- ANGA JYOTISHA.
The right adminsitration of 'MANTRAS' is through right use and split of AKSHARAS .
The JYOTISHI need training in YOGA-SAMSKRUTHAM for use of 'Samskrutham as VAK-Yoga. Different splits- differing results is the simple logic and insight.
If interested , for more information. please write privately. At least some of the members on your board know me in person and my views on the need to upgrade Jyotish to 'Vedanga Jyotish' studies.
.
vasantkumar bhatt
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bvparishat+...@googlegroups.com.
vasantkumar bhatt
Venkatakrishna Sastry
The invocation of 'Pingala Chandas Shastra/ sutra with Halayudha
commentary' makes the discussion more complicated and deeper. More
questions to explore open up.
The questions are like : Which of the 'Gayatri' and as what ' Structure,
text as given letters, akshara - division' is being taken as reference in
the debate ?
To justify which reading as valid as against the other one ? Why invoke
Panini for the Sandhi split rule, where Pingala looks for ' Filler (
Poorana) ?
How one justifies the rule base invoking < प्रातिशाख्य के नियमानुसार ….
एक अक्षर नया जोड़ कर …. बनाया जाया है, > ? A meddling with the mantra
structure - split and usage ??
I place below some snippets from Pingala's chandas shastra with halayudha
commentary. My understanding is that more research is needed to educate and
understand the right use of 'Gayatri'- as a vedic technical structure, with
given letters, split and clustering of akshara segements ( by pairs,
triads, quintuplets…), the laghu-guru classification, the svara marking,
and a host of other factors like devataa. Simplistic and partial
justifications open up room for more confusion.
The snippets placed below seem to justify the usage < वरेण्यं and
वरेणियम् > in very specific contexts as explained in Pingala's commentary
. The change in application and meaning may have a similar, equally complex
' traditional debate and final verdict for a practice' in Vyakarana and
Nirukta. We have not touched these disciplines in their totality. The
floating popular view that ' Gayatri mantra' is universal and can be
chanted/ sung/ used in a free for all manner is not justified by any text
of tradition. The traditional stand is ' Get the required Samskara and use
gayatri mantra properly to get the benefit' . The name of the samskara is '
upa-nayana'. The 100 -level intro training is learning correct phonation
(Shikshaa- Chandas) before going to grammar and semantics (Vyakarana -
Nirukta).
The application of Gaaytri with this right backdrop yields the right '
parihara- phala' sought by the user, more specifically in vedanga Jyotisha.
This is the VINIYOGA ( as Dr. Yadu has said in many earlier posts;
VINIYOGA term is a part of the traditional declarations before Gayatri
mantra and pooja/ japa : Jape viniyogah'. Many seem to have inappropriately
substituted the 'Yoga sutra technicality of ' tajjapah tadartha-bhaavanam',
poorly ransalted as' understanding the meaning of the mantra ! Additional
justification for inappropriate action is drawn from Nirukta : yadadheetam
AVIJNAATAM, nigadenaiva shabdyate. The karma-yoga techniclity of the three
terms -< viniyogah'.- tadartha-bhaavanam', -AVIJNAATAM> are diferent and
distinct.
The start with ' general over view, this thread started on how to count
'aksharas' which needed deeper thinking, especially for Vedas. The
opening of this post contained a statement : < आप वर्णविच्छेद
<https://www.rbsesolutions.com/solutions-for-class-6-sanskrit-vyaakaran-varn
-vichaar/> करके स्वरों की संख्या गिन सकते हैं। वही अक्षरसंख्या है। > The <
-vichaar/> > got us to the point of < वरेण्यं and वरेणियम् meaning > .
The issue of < मूल संहितापाठ… अष्टाक्षर पाद बनाने के लिए, प्रातिशाख्य के
नियमानुसार…. एक अक्षर नया जोड़ कर …. बनाया जाया है, = उस तरह से उच्चारण
संयुक्ताक्षर में यकार अथवा वकार सुनाई दे वहाँ, ) इय एवं उव - जैसा उच्चारण
करके, पाद को अष्टाक्षर बनाया जाता है । >
snippet below.
https://archive.org/details/ChhandaSutra-Pingala/page/n36/mode/1up
Here came the difficulty , in understanding and applying the rule to the
context.
This rule applies to ' paada' of ' gayatri' as the third section adhikaara
reads. Thus in third chapter of Pingala, Gayatri- paada means eight
aksharas.
The rule seems to provide a POORANA (=FILLER) SVARA/ AKSHARA in
between at a specific point. The split of ण्यं -- to णियम् is step wise:
Rule Application:
[( ण्)+( यं) ] -- [ ( ण्)- पूरण स्वर ( इ) + यं/यम् ) ] [ णि +
( यम् / यं ) ] [ Vasant kumar bhats explanation is illustrated here. This
modification is in one special text of gayatri.
I did not what prevents the तु in सवितुर् not to be affected by
the same rule ?! The mantra would have become [ तत्सवि- तव----
र्वरेण्यं ] and still retain the 8 letters rule ]
Any rule in Pingala's Chandas shaastra refers to ' Akshara-count'.
The general tag of ' GAYATRI gets more specific classifications in Pingala .
The classifcation basis is explained :
The Commentator explains ' GAYATRI variations from ' One letter to
several letters, with illustrations . Pingala is not the only source to
explain the diversity of chandas in veda mantras :
The several names of Gayatri and its variants are : एकाक्षरं छन्दो गायत्रीति
संज्ञायते .... आसुरीगायत्री प ञ्च दशाक्षरा ....प्राजापत्या गायत्री
अष्ट्टाक्षरा भवति ...यजुषां गायत्री षडक्षरा भवति ...... द्विः-कृता
द्विगुणिता षट्-संख्या साम्नां गायत्री इतित् संज्ञायते ......त्रिगुणिता
षट्-सम्ख्या ऋचां गायत्री भवति । यत्र कवचित् वेदे अष्टादशाक्षरं छन्दः तत्
ऋचां गायत्रीति संज्ञायते .. साम्नां, ऋचां, प्राजापत्यं, दैवी, याजुषी,
आसुरी, ब्राह्मी गायत्री,
I hope this helps to deliberate more deeply on ' Gayatri' and all other
Chandas as well as Veda mantras .
-vichaar/> करके स्वरों की संख्या गिन सकते हैं। वही अक्षरसंख्या है।
--
Ashish Sharma
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/BMXPR01MB2280B838602611C2E0F9AC16BB270%40BMXPR01MB2280.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
Ashish Sharma
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/BMXPR01MB2280129CEFB28C5E676FDDA2BB270%40BMXPR01MB2280.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
Nagaraj Paturi
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAA2tTo71c_nd2LNCRDp9fh0vrOcz5d9Tn%2B_6rqQTT2AWMUFvrw%40mail.gmail.com.