Rishi Rajpopat— Paninian Grammar
Ramesh Rao
Nagaraj Paturi
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Nagaraj Paturi
Leading Sanskrit experts have described Rajpopat's discovery as "revolutionary" and it could now mean that Pāṇini's grammar can be taught to computers for the first time.
While researching his Ph.D. thesis, published today, Dr. Rajpopat decoded a 2,500 year old algorithm that makes it possible, for the first time, to accurately use Pāṇini's "language machine."
Pāṇini's system—4,000 rules detailed in his greatest work, the Aṣṭādhyāyī, which is thought to have been written around 500 BC—is meant to work like a machine: Feed in the base and suffix of a word and it should turn them into grammatically correct words and sentences through a step-by-step process.
Until now, however, there has been a big problem. Often, two or more of Pāṇini's rules are simultaneously applicable at the same step, leaving scholars to agonize over which one to choose.
Solving so-called "rule conflicts," which affect millions of Sanskrit words including certain forms of "mantra" and "guru," requires an algorithm. Pāṇini taught a metarule to help us decide which rule should be applied in the event of "rule conflict," but for the last 2,500 years, scholars have misinterpreted this metarule, meaning that they often ended up with a grammatically incorrect result.
In an attempt to fix this issue, many scholars laboriously developed hundreds of other metarules, but Dr. Rajpopat shows that these are not just incapable of solving the problem at hand—they all produced too many exceptions—but also completely unnecessary. Rajpopat shows that Pāṇini's "language machine" is self-sufficient.
Hari Parshad Das
Dhiren N. Sheth
This is an exciting development for sure.
Thanks to Indica for taking the lead to organise the talk with the young scholar.
Meanwhile it will be interesting to hear from other Grammar experts on this group about what they think about this new discovery of sorts.
Neelesh Bodas ji, your views please?
Best Regards
Dhiren N. Sheth
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Hari Parshad Das
M V S Siva Prasad
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Nagaraj Paturi
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Siva Prasad ji
Excellent Practical question .
Please tell me who /which team/ which Language institute and Techno-linguistic team is WILLING TO INVEST TIME – ENERGY – FUNDS as INPUT RESOURCES for the cherished Goal ?
To explore JOB POTENTIAL : ‘NATURAL PANINI –SAMSKRUTH – LANGUAGE- PROGRAMMING’ Framework ? Global corporates have invested heavily on this area to explore the utility of Panini for the Advanced A.I and Intelligent Systems Interfaces, because they have invested and studied the Practical benefit of Panini Language Model for Technology based Profession – Job- Economy related manifestations.
What we seem to have by default is ‘Anglicized Model of Devanagari script processing’ decorated as ‘Programmed Sanskrit’ to be proud of.
When people want ‘Food delivered via online order’, who is ready to work in the farm to till the land and grow crops ?
Are you one of those enthusiasts willing to be a part of the team to work –toil for the above goal ? Pl. let me know.
It takes a lot more to run this race to deliver:
A Programming Language derivative from Panini –Samskrutham : Ashtadhyayi.
Regards
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ushavishnuvamsi
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ushavishnuvamsi
Nagaraj Paturi
‘Eureka’ moment for Indian at Cambridge, as he solves 2500-year-old Sanskrit language problem
Dr Rishi Rajpopat has solved a loophole in the ‘Ashtadhyayi’, allowing Panini's Sanskrit grammar to be taught to computers for the first time.
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Vichitra Thandava
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M V S Siva Prasad
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Nagaraj Paturi
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Hari Parshad Das
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Shiva prasad ji
1. I have sent a direct mail, copied to you for enabling off- forum interaction.
2. Please share your contact info/ phone/ address to reach you out.
3. Surely we can have a focused discussion on ‘How to’ plans on delivering
< A Programming Language derivative for ‘Panini –Samskrutham’ using Ashtadhyayi.> .
Anyone willing to join are welcome to this Special Interest Group.
The focus is on ‘Samskrutham: Utility for Productization -Techno-Commercial applications’.
Welcome to other sympathizers focused on defending fronts of ‘Culture and Religion’.
( I always recall the importance of ‘Viniyoga-question’ made by my good friend Dr. Yadu demanding
answer to the question : ‘kasmai’ – For whose benefit (classical approach) – ‘mama kim’ ? What is in it for
me ( Modern lingo) – ‘ Rashtra- Praja hitam kim? What is in it for Nation – Next Generation ( Quest from Gita studies).
4. The following should be obvious enough by this time as to focus of interaction:
- That proposed work needs proactive resources to strongest counter from ‘Home Pitch’.
- This would / need to emerge as a ‘Public-Private- Partnered’- ‘Battle: Bharata-Bhashaa-Kurushetra.
- This is NOT a social media ‘ Forward – likes’ game !
- There is a critical need to address the challenge of aggressive infusion of ‘Anglicized
Technology (as given) through ‘Techno-Linguistic Gateway’, which is corrosively digesting
Panini-Patanjali Brahmi- (Vak)Yoga-Samskrutham Model and Standards in to Anglicized
technology (as given) through the artefact of ‘Romanized representation of Language
elements’ for Techno-linguistic processing.
- The victory mark is ‘Bharath -Bhashaa-Tanra -Vijnana- Atma Nirbharataa::
Freedom for Digital Processing of Indic Language’s from Colonial Techno-linguistics-
dependency. (Angleya -roopaka-daasyataa- rahita – Bharatha – Brahmi Bhashaa-
Ganaka- Tantra jnana–Swaatantrya).
- This ‘Language- Technology Battle’ involves recognizing and overcoming challenges in
‘sva-jana- vishaada’ blurring ‘Vedanga: Panini- Samskrutham: Brahmi language modelling.
The core of this ‘Bhashaa –Dharma- Vishaada’ is due to 5M driven- self embraced ideology:
‘Sanskrit is like English / Like Any other human societal language of historical and
mediaeval civilizations.
Therefore, in Globalized Village era, ‘Sanskrit should iconize English for Techno-evolution
to survive and deliver economic and employment benefits on national and global scale
like ‘(current) English (UK/ USA model - ?? ).
The new format of old slogan reads : ‘Sanskrit is good for A.I’. [ in the place of ‘Sanskrit is good for computers.].
Like ‘Mahabharata – Dharmaraja’s statement : Give us five houses a least in your Kingdom, so that we live and avert the ‘ fratricidal genocidal battle’. We value ‘Peace, We are willing to embrace poverty to give ‘Peace’ (- without Pride of self- Identity ?).
The unresolved, less debated, poorly presented, sprinkled generously with lots of complacency issue being:
Why a 6000 + years old language is struggling to deliver what a social language derivative, with just a six plus decade has delivered to improvise technology ? gives power to very select global corporate ?
Why is ‘English based technology widely –wildly – willingly consumed by non-english language societies and Nations ? NEP stresses ‘Regional Language Programming’. It is NOT ‘ Regional Language characters embedding and screen graphic- visual – spread sheet processed – result displaying’ using the ‘ stage provided by choice Programming language processing romanized representation of language character-codes.
The quantum solace held on is ‘Anglicization of Sanskrit is not a threat !’ Contra , It is a panacea as Anglicization Upgrade as Romanization of Devanagari, which must be willingly embraced for National Advantage (?) as ‘Kaala- Dharma/ Yuga –Dharma/ Bhashaa – Dharma’ .
This ‘ Sva Jana- DevaBhashaa – Dharma- Vishaada’ is strongly guarded by the most sympathetic ‘Bheeshma – Drona’ like doyens of ‘Indian- In-House techno-linguists and Social- Sanskritists’.
The axiomatic outcome of this ‘ Vishaada’ is seen in fierce counter to any action that upsets ivory tower of ‘English Iconic (by Likeness and Dependency) for emulation by all World languages !
The course correction needs Brahmi-Samskruth-Strategic Investment to Explore afresh the native natural Brahmi Samskrutham Language –Technologies, to deliver ‘Panini-Sanskrit-Programming Language solutions, to empower ‘Sanskrit to work –deliver benefits like English’.
There is no luxury of life –time –line here ! Mahabharata war was over in 18 days.
This ‘Bharath- Bhashaa- Kurukshetra time line may not extend beyond 2030 !
If I sound as a ‘freaking voice’, pl. pardon me.
I am voicing what global techno-corporate is aiming and boldly proclaimed and pressed for action with deep rooted Indic operations going on.
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भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्" group.
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SHAILESH SHINDE
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Vichitra Thandava
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Nagaraj Paturi
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Sivasenani Nori
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Sivasenani Nori
rao....@gmail.com
DOI and SOI, अत्र पुनः द्वैविध्यं सम्भवति। द्वयोः अन्यतरत् अन्यस्मिन् कृते अकृते च प्रवर्तते, द्वयोः अवशिष्टम् अन्यस्मिन् कृते न प्रवर्तते इति इति एकः प्रकारः (सम्प्रदाये अत्र नित्यानित्यविचारः क्रियते), द्वयोः सूत्रयोः परस्परम् अन्यस्य सूत्रस्य प्रवृत्तिं निरुणद्धि इति द्वितीयः प्रकारः। DOI and SOI उभयत्रापि प्रकारद्वयं सम्भवति इत्यतः संहत्य ४ प्रकाराः भवन्ति। कदाचित् द्वयोः कस्यापि सूत्रस्य आदौ प्रवृत्तिः शक्यते, कोपि कमपि न निरुणद्धि इत्यपि अस्ति। इदमपि DOI and SOI उभयत्रापि भवति इत्यतः संहत्य षट्प्रकाराः भवन्ति। तत्र आदौ प्रदर्शितेषु चतुर्षु प्रकारेषु विरोधाः सम्भवन्ति, अन्त्ययोः न।
SOI सम्बद्धविरोधेषु यत् कार्यं more specific तत् प्रवर्तते। अत्र निरवकाशत्वादिचर्चा उपयुक्ता भवति।
अयं क्रमः आद्रियते चेत् अकृतव्यूहाः पाणिनीयाः, अन्तरङ्गबहिरङ्गपरिभाषा, पूर्वविप्रतिषेधः इत्यादीनाम् आश्रयणेन विना एव प्रक्रिया साधयितुं शक्यते इति तस्य अभिप्रायः। तदर्थम् अङ्गसंज्ञायाः अपि कश्चन अन्यः अर्थः स्वीकरणीयः भवति इति सः अभिप्रैति।
एतस्य विवरणार्थं षष्ट्यधिकोदाहरणानि तेन ग्रन्थे प्रदर्शितानि। तस्य पक्षस्य स्वीकारे स्थानद्वये क्लेशः अपि वर्तते इति तेन प्रदर्शितम्। आगमविषये इतोपि कार्यं कर्तव्यमस्ति इत्यपि उक्तम्।
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
My post below is to place the essential challenge articulated via ‘Samskruth- Observation’ in ‘comprehensible English’.
[This is not a line by line translation !]
The key question to resolve:
What is the ‘ Samskruth-language- model’ used in thesis to resolve ‘Samskruth –Grammar- Rule Application Problem’ ?
Is the thesis standing by ‘Panini – Language Model (Deva bhashaa/ Veda –Bhashaa)’
OR
Is thesis compromised on Language Model by mixing up Tower of Babel IE / Historic –
Linguistics / Oriental Models making a Sanskrit a social language ?
1. If the ‘Origin’ of the ‘Research Problem’ – has its context in ‘Panini sutra – application of grammar rule : by order sequence - priority – exceptions filtering - to arrive at a final ‘desired word- form’, then (a) Panini – Muni-Traya tradition has already figured out this in the past few millennia teaching.
The current challenge could have been due to loss of ‘ Panini –Patanjali Construction method, as we seem to have it now, which might have been lost over / suffered distortions over a period of time line in transmission. Bhattoji deekshita, Bhatti, Magha, Sri Harsha, Bhoja, Sayana Madhava, Jaganantha …. All have their say on such issues.
So also the western / Oriental scholars who trace a different working path to arrive at a given ‘word- from’ and rule operational procedure.
As a scholarly study, the thesis is a good exercise to suggest a current faced problem.
2. Getting back to the ‘onset of problem itself, as imagined (?)- debated in VYAKARANA works, the ‘ Muni-Traya’ sampradaya has its unique theory on the foundation –fundamentals of ‘Samskruth Language Model’ for which VYAKARANA is an auxiliary study discipline.
Vyakarana provides WORD –FORMATION - GENERATION –VALDIATION – FILTRATION – CONSTRUCTION related rules .
Vyakarana is built on a given understanding of ‘SAMSKRUTHAM: Language Model.
Vyakarana is NOT defining the ‘LANGUAGE MODEL’ .
Therefore, given thesis as a deep study of ‘in-house Vyakarana tradition reviewed and problem resolved’ is fine.
Any flaw here could be set right by Vidwans.
If the thesis has adapted / substituted to compromise on Panini DEVA-BHASHAA- Language-Modelling –Frame, using a ‘NON-NATIVE (Tower of Babel) I.E - LANGUAGE STREAM MODEL FOR SAMSKRUTHAM’ as FOUNDATIONAL to resolve the ‘ In-House Vyakarana (perceived) problem, then it is NOT acceptable. This will be a compromise on Panini –Fundamentals.
Regards
BVK Sastry
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Hari Parshad Das
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Ramesh Rao
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Dhiren N. Sheth
Fully agree Ramesh ji.
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kenp
Hari Parshad Das
V Subrahmanian
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
Rishi Rajpopats Thesis Supervisor: Dr. Vincenzo Vergiani .
‘The Master also shares the blame for students faults’! ( aacharyamaagaccahti shishya doshah).
About Thesis guide of Rishi Rajpoot: [ See Below * ]
Profile Page URL: Professor Vincenzo Vergiani | Faculty of Asian and Middle Eastern Studies (cam.ac.uk)
Deep question to ponder over:
‘Is Panini Samskrutham Digestible in to
- IE linguistics frame (Academics, Religion)
- Techno-Linguistic Romanized script/ ‘Like English: Programming Language model?
Likely Consequences of ‘Bharat Loosing Local- Global power to Voice Samskruth –Acharya Paddahti’
(a) To Articulate – Invest Timely – Promote Research support and employment opportunities to hold and build (b) National Position on Brahmi- Vak Yoga: Panini- Patanjali Yoga –Samskrutham ?
The motive for such actions do face still opposition from teams seeing
Local gains for pleasing Regional –language / local religion lobbies
and
Long term – global civilizational / Technological / Economic Power gains from lobbies
Providing convenient -bed partnerships through Academia building ‘Sanskrit in likeness of English’
and Corporate back – funding ‘Techno-Linguistic Digestion of Panini to English Likeness to build
English like Panini-Programming Language’?
Who needs to invest – strive – hold interest to shape the ‘Future of Samskrutha Bhashaa Paramparaa’ ? How ?
How are Pride Claimers planning to invest proactively beyond soft –social media talk to guard their ‘Heritage Pride’ ? to ‘overcome Digestion’? I am continuously reminded of Dr. Yadu’s key term ‘ VINIYOGA’.
I hope some of the readers are familiar with the anguish and observation of Maanyaa Pushpa Dixit on Sanskrit Studies –Resources and Models in post-independence India.
About Thesis guide of Rishi Rajpoot: [ See Below * ]
Sanskrit Manuscripts Project : Biography: Born and brought up in Naples, I went to university in Rome and did an MA in psychology. After working for a few years as a freelance translator from English and French, I went back to university with the intention to study linguistics. Instead, I ended up becoming a Sanskritist, a turn of events that I have never regretted. I did a second MA in Sanskrit and later a Ph.D. in Classical and Medieval Indian Studies from the University of Rome “La Sapienza”. I was lecturer in Indology there for a few years before being hired in Cambridge in 2007. Between 2005 and 2006 I was affiliated to the EFEO (French School of Asian Studies) in Pondicherry and took this opportunity to begin studying Classical Tamil. In 2011 I was awarded an AHRC Standard Route research grant for the project "The intellectual and religious traditions of South Asia as seen through the Sanskrit manuscript collections of the University Library, Cambridge", which ran from November 2011 to November 2014.
My main areas of research are the history of linguistic ideas and the philosophy of language in ancient India, with a focus on the period from the late first millennium BCE to the early second millennium CE. I am also investigating the role grammar – especially (but not exclusively) Pāṇinian grammar – played in the history of the Sanskrit language and the broader socio-political context of classical and medieval South Asia.
At the centre of my interests is the work of Bhartṛhari, the influential 5th-century Brahmanical philosopher known for his innovative views on language and epistemology, and of his 10th-century Kashmiri commentator Helārāja. My long-overdue study and annotated translation of the Sādhanasamuddeśa from the third book of the Vākyapadīya of Bhartṛhari, with the commentary of Helārāja, is now in its final stages of preparation.
In the past I have been one of the members of an international team working on the critical edition of the Kāśikā Vṛtti (7th c. CE), the first complete commentary on the Aṣṭādhyāyī of Pāṇini, the initial part of which was published in 2009 (Studies in the Kāśikāvṛtti. The section on pratyāhāras).
In recent years I have also become interested in the Tamil grammatical tradition and its relation with Sanskrit grammar, as part of the complex process of acculturation of the Dravidian South that took place from the first millennium CE and brought it into the pan-Indian cultural horizon. In 2009 this led to the organisation in Cambridge of an international workshop on “Bilingualism and Cross-cultural Fertilisation: Sanskrit and Tamil in Mediaeval India”, co-convened with Dr Whitney Cox (then at SOAS), thanks to a British Academy Conference Support Grant.
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hari Parshad Das
Sent: 18 December 2022 18:29
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hari Parshad Das
Sent: 18 December 2022 18:29
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hari Parshad Das
Sent: 18 December 2022 18:29
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
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Nagaraj Paturi
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Regards
BVK Sastry
From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hari Parshad Das
Sent: 18 December 2022 18:29
To: भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
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Hari Parshad Das
Nagaraj Paturi
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k.pra...@gmail.com
Hats off to your efforts towards samskRtam Language Automation System studies etc.
You said above -
Vyakarana is built on a given understanding of ‘SAMSKRUTHAM: Language Model.
Vyakarana is NOT defining the ‘LANGUAGE MODEL’ .
Natural Language Grammar fits your above description - they are considered to be in the category of "descriptive grammar"
However, Computer Science requires a "generative / prescriptive grammar" - preferably an effective, efficient and versatile one.
paaNini system design is the most appropriate for adaptation towards that goal, although a blind adoptation may not work.
That is precisely why all these research efforts are meaningful - not for any better understanding of the vEdic samskRtam etc.
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
What would one call people desirous of playing football on a Tennis court , using hockey sticks ?
1. Samskrutham is ‘Language-Grammar of Nature’ [PRAKRUTI –BHASHAA / Prakruti as defined in Gita 7-4].
(PRAKRUTI / CHITTA – VRUTTI – Vyaakrana –PRAKRIYAA :
Vyaakarana resolved as : vikarana ( Alternate Do’s ) – aa-karana/ (Total Do’s ) – karana ( Doing Instruments ) – prakrushta ( Excellence ) – kriyaa ( Processing to Output ).
[ In lighter vein: rana = War ! marana =death ].
2. Computer Science requires ‘ Nature of Language’ (Bhashaa –Swaroopa ) and ‘ Thought – Articulation(Bhaava- Aakhyana ) / Thought to Speech (Vivakshita –artha –vachana ) / Intention Intelligent Voice Coding –Decoding – Transmission- Validation- Rules ( Vaakya –artha Nirukti- Nirnaya – Pada –Vakya –shaastra) .
This expectation falls under ‘ Universal Grammar’ framework of Chomsky, which in its original construct was ‘archetypes by Western languages and historic technology constraints in Techno-linguistics’. Currently this study goes under more advanced domains of A.I / Neuro linguistics, robotics and the like.
The current techno-linguistic researchers are kicking around the ‘solutions for the above’ in Non-English languages’ . Samskruth –Grammar studies is one of the 280 language players with 7000 voice – type variations with different grammars and coding as ‘contenders’ to emerge as ‘Programming Language’s of Future’, the successors with ‘English – Likeness’.
There are critical steps and thinking process needed to restore : Panini –Native Samskruth Language Model as ‘Vak-yoga: / Yoga-Samskrutham - Thought Articulation.
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Nagaraj Paturi
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/CAGDpZ8vzqR-eUHc3T_Tw3bEKbHGDwUtP74EFpKssD1mRyNZxGA%40mail.gmail.com.
उदयनः
Panini We Trust by Dr. Rishi Atul Rajpopat: What now and what next?
kenp
kenp
Nagaraj Paturi
I found this to be simpler and lay audience oriented discussion :
Sanskrit Puzzle? or Cambridge's Conspiracy! | Rishi Rajpopat on Ashtadhyayi | EP-11
Rishi Rajpopat Expose | ऋषि राजपोपट की शोध कैसे पूरी तरह से गलत है ?
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