Guna and Varnas
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Naveen Badrinarayan | Dheya.com
Mar 30, 2020, 12:43:27 PM3/30/20
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In the BhagwadGita Chapter 18, each personality or temperament is made up of the three gunas viz. Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas. The 4 types of classified people as per their behavior and qualities are the Brahmana, Kshatriya , Vaishya and Shudra. The verse 45 says that each person must perform their duties as per their own nature, meaning the shudra should perform service with full dedication and devotion which will lead the shudra to fulfilled life and will eventually extinguish the "vasanas" due to which the shudra is having this temperament at all of more of Tamas, little of rajas and very little of sattva. The same is the case with a Brahmana, Kshatriya and Vaishya all are acting according to their "vasanas" induced temeraments and as long as they adhere to their own nature and act accordingly, they reach fulfillment. Is it that as a Shudra gets fulfilled, they transcend to become more like a Vaishya --> Kshatriya--> Brahmana or is it that irrespective of what varna you are , you can directly reach the highest state of fulfillment as you extinguish your own vasanas.
There is a bit of a dilemna here, which needs clarification.
K S Kannan
Mar 30, 2020, 12:47:35 PM3/30/20
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स्वकर्मणा तमभ्यर्च्य सिद्धिं विन्दति मानवः
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 10:13 PM 'Naveen Badrinarayan | Dheya.com' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
In the BhagwadGita Chapter 18, each personality or temperament is made up of the three gunas viz. Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas. The 4 types of classified people as per their behavior and qualities are the Brahmana, Kshatriya , Vaishya and Shudra. The verse 45 says that each person must perform their duties as per their own nature, meaning the shudra should perform service with full dedication and devotion which will lead the shudra to fulfilled life and will eventually extinguish the "vasanas" due to which the shudra is having this temperament at all of more of Tamas, little of rajas and very little of sattva. The same is the case with a Brahmana, Kshatriya and Vaishya all are acting according to their "vasanas" induced temeraments and as long as they adhere to their own nature and act accordingly, they reach fulfillment. Is it that as a Shudra gets fulfilled, they transcend to become more like a Vaishya --> Kshatriya--> Brahmana or is it that irrespective of what varna you are , you can directly reach the highest state of fulfillment as you extinguish your own vasanas.There is a bit of a dilemna here, which needs clarification.
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Dr. K.S.Kannan D.Litt.
Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.
Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit
University, Bangalore.
Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The
National Colleges, Bangalore.
Nagaraj Paturi
Mar 30, 2020, 3:14:10 PM3/30/20
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There is an old BVP thread on this topic:
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Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
Mar 31, 2020, 1:53:41 AM3/31/20
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Shri Naveen,
It looks to me that you are conflating ‘ Gunas ‘ with ‘ vaasana ‘s.
Regards,
Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 9:43 AM 'Naveen Badrinarayan | Dheya.com' via भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत् <bvpar...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
In the BhagwadGita Chapter 18, each personality or temperament is made up of the three gunas viz. Sattva, Rajas, and Tamas. The 4 types of classified people as per their behavior and qualities are the Brahmana, Kshatriya , Vaishya and Shudra. The verse 45 says that each person must perform their duties as per their own nature, meaning the shudra should perform service with full dedication and devotion which will lead the shudra to fulfilled life and will eventually extinguish the "vasanas" due to which the shudra is having this temperament at all of more of Tamas, little of rajas and very little of sattva. The same is the case with a Brahmana, Kshatriya and Vaishya all are acting according to their "vasanas" induced temeraments and as long as they adhere to their own nature and act accordingly, they reach fulfillment. Is it that as a Shudra gets fulfilled, they transcend to become more like a Vaishya --> Kshatriya--> Brahmana or is it that irrespective of what varna you are , you can directly reach the highest state of fulfillment as you extinguish your own vasanas.There is a bit of a dilemna here, which needs clarification.
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Naveen Badrinarayan | Dheya.com
Mar 31, 2020, 4:40:06 AM3/31/20
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Dear Sir,
Vasanas are impressions already existing as per our "karma" and makes a person react in a particular manner or temperament. This temperament can be classified using the "gunas", and as per the Gita, if the actions are done as per the existing vasanas( which is the "swabhava" - a mix of the 3 gunas), the person leads a fulfilled life, however, actions are to be performed as a sacrifice, not getting swayed by the external seductions to the senses, in order to avoid adding more vasanas, and extinguish the existing vasanas as you lead this life as per your swabhava. By doing this a person transcends the exisitng state and moves up to become more peaceful and equanimous. So even a "shudra" can start transcending to become a "brahmana" as they progress. Hope this clarifies.
Naveen BadrinarayanDirector ( Research, Product Design & Training)
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Kalicharan Tuvij
Mar 31, 2020, 6:33:46 AM3/31/20
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Namaste.
A Shudra who realises his potential becomes a Chandragupta Maurya or a Shivaji, and not a brAhmaNa because emulating para-dharma is beneath the conduct of an Arya.
It will be more apt to say that an avarNa can rise to varNa by embracing yagna-dharma as a way of life.
Rishi Goswami
Apr 1, 2020, 1:00:12 PM4/1/20
to भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्
According to Vallabhacharya, the Varnas are not Jatis but Devas. The place where Varnas are listed is followed by चन्द्रमा मनसो जातः and other Devas being born.
Like a seed in sack is not worthy to be an Ankur, similarly an Asamskrit child isn't worthy of Vaidik Karma. Only after Samskara, a Varna Deva will enter the body and he becomes whatever he was born as.
Varna isn't by birth, but for eg, fruits from a mango seed can only be of Mango, child born to Brahmana can only be Brahmana after Samskara.
Because Varnas go away, and Jati is Nitya Eka Anekanugata, Varna cant be Jati.but it is Deva, also in Brahmavada, Jati isn't accepted because Jati is required for commonness within Plurality.
____
A person who is born to a sage, say Vidura had Brahmana like qualities, but wasn't because lack of Samskara, the Deva didn't enter.
This also explains Varna-Saankarya because 2 Virrudha Dharmas existing in body is called Saankarya. 2 Devas can exist in 1 body, like Harihara, Dattatreya etc. Varna Devas also exist in 1 body.
Even though one becomes a Sage doesn't mean his Varna changes, Vishwamitra remained a Kshatriya even though having all quities of a Vipra.
____
Vallabhacharya has rejected Varnashrama is capable to give Moksha by itself independently, something which the Mimamsakas believed. Karma alone is enough.
And in Kaliyuga especially, when Varnashrama is collapsed, one shouldn't rely on it much. If it's possible, one must follow, or if not possible (due to Sankarya), one should just follow path of Bhakti.
(I've heard that a family which has lost tradition of Agnihotra, doesn't remain Dwija, and without आधानसिद्धा अग्नि, it cannot perform funeral rites, shraaddhas etc. This exactly collapses the entire system and dependancy or false pride attached to it).
The basic Crux is, only God can Uddhar you, and if you follow, still he will save you, if you can't, still he will save you.
Bhakti hence is easiest way. No matter what caste, nationality, or race you are. Bhaktimarga is open for all.
Like a seed in sack is not worthy to be an Ankur, similarly an Asamskrit child isn't worthy of Vaidik Karma. Only after Samskara, a Varna Deva will enter the body and he becomes whatever he was born as.
Varna isn't by birth, but for eg, fruits from a mango seed can only be of Mango, child born to Brahmana can only be Brahmana after Samskara.
Because Varnas go away, and Jati is Nitya Eka Anekanugata, Varna cant be Jati.but it is Deva, also in Brahmavada, Jati isn't accepted because Jati is required for commonness within Plurality.
____
A person who is born to a sage, say Vidura had Brahmana like qualities, but wasn't because lack of Samskara, the Deva didn't enter.
This also explains Varna-Saankarya because 2 Virrudha Dharmas existing in body is called Saankarya. 2 Devas can exist in 1 body, like Harihara, Dattatreya etc. Varna Devas also exist in 1 body.
Even though one becomes a Sage doesn't mean his Varna changes, Vishwamitra remained a Kshatriya even though having all quities of a Vipra.
____
Vallabhacharya has rejected Varnashrama is capable to give Moksha by itself independently, something which the Mimamsakas believed. Karma alone is enough.
And in Kaliyuga especially, when Varnashrama is collapsed, one shouldn't rely on it much. If it's possible, one must follow, or if not possible (due to Sankarya), one should just follow path of Bhakti.
(I've heard that a family which has lost tradition of Agnihotra, doesn't remain Dwija, and without आधानसिद्धा अग्नि, it cannot perform funeral rites, shraaddhas etc. This exactly collapses the entire system and dependancy or false pride attached to it).
The basic Crux is, only God can Uddhar you, and if you follow, still he will save you, if you can't, still he will save you.
Bhakti hence is easiest way. No matter what caste, nationality, or race you are. Bhaktimarga is open for all.
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