Milky white liquid from group head

[Andrey Sychev]

Hi group, I am a proud owner of the original Brewtus 2 after many years of reliable service. Last few years I have been using distilled water exclusively and all through the years low hardness water has been used. Over the last couple of days i noticed that water from the group head turned milky white while from the hot water spout is transparent. Plenty of water flushing did not resolve this. Otherwise everything looks normal.What am I looking at? Scale or something like that? Appreciate any help.

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[Ira]

Hello 'Andrey,

Saturday, October 16, 2021, 10:17:31 AM, you wrote:

Over the last couple of days i noticed that water from the group head turned milky white while from the hot water spout is transparent. 

Milky white and then clearing can sometimes be really tiny air bubbles. Put some of the water in a skinny clear container and look carefully from the side, if that's what's happening, the bottom will clear first as the bubbles rise. 

-- Ira

[Andrey Sychev]

Thanks, will give that a try.  Why would there be bubbles all of the sudden after so many years?

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On Oct 16, 2021, at 2:00 PM, Ira <laz...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ira]

Hello 'Andrey,

Saturday, October 16, 2021, 11:22:32 AM, you wrote:

Thanks, will give that a try.  Why would there be bubbles all of the sudden after so many years?

Bubbles usually come from the water, so water change recently? It might not be that, but it's worth checking because it's easy to check and confirm.

-- Ira

[DioKay]

Hi, 

This happened to my brother's Rancilio  silvia, water went milky but he still able to make some coffees for a week or so until the unit's body start to feel kinda static charge goin on when touched.  Then after he called me.  I found out the heater cracked and all what he drank was whatever white substances inside the heater tube.  Like my brewtus 3, after 15 years of service, the pump start to weaken and more water spit out than it can suck into the tank, it could be culprit if you ever suspect weak pump sound. So no water or too little makes the heater cracked inside.

You might wanna check the resistance of the heater.  But I couldnt tell you what it supposed to read there for the brewtus. Try Google or somebody else can tell here.

Regards,

Yandi

Lombok, Indonesia.

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[Andrey Sychev]

I let the clear glass sit and no bubbles - in fact a little white sludge on the bottom. Is water from water dispenser pulled from a different boiler? That water is perfectly clear.  Of course I have yet to  drain that boiler.

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On Oct 16, 2021, at 10:39 PM, DioKay <dio...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Andrey Sychev]

I now notice the brew boiler struggling to stay at the temperature and slight crackling of the machine. Any suggestions or WLL overhaul is required?

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On Oct 17, 2021, at 1:05 PM, 'Andrey Sychev' via Brewtus <bre...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I let the clear glass sit and no bubbles - in fact a little white sludge on the bottom. Is water from water dispenser pulled from a different boiler? That water is perfectly clear.  Of course I have yet to  drain that boiler.

[Andrey Sychev]

Still waiting for WLL response on this but google produces similar kind of incidents eventually leading to heating element rupture - is this a likely cause in Brewtus? How easy is removing / replacing brew boiler element? Also, I am guessing my brew boiler has plenty of this white sludge now - how do you get it out - descale? Thanks.

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On Oct 18, 2021, at 11:45 AM, Andrey Sychev <andr...@aol.com> wrote:

I now notice the brew boiler struggling to stay at the temperature and slight crackling of the machine. Any suggestions or WLL overhaul is required?

[Jonathan Stroum]

Andrey,

 

I think Yandi is probably right and you should do a resistance measurement on the heating element to confirm.

 

Extracting the boiler element, for me, required a 120 lb air-driven impact wrench.  I think I read earlier that your machine is a BII and many of those element threads were treated with a glue type sealer.  Don’t recall the size of the nut. You could probably get it loose with a ½” breaker bar with an iron pipe attached for extra leverage.

 

Short answer, it’s a serious task.  I’ll let others answer the question about descaling.

 

JP

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[Andrey Sychev]

Thanks, that’s what I thought I read a while ago. Hope I can get a quote from WLL.

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On Oct 19, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Jonathan Stroum <jpst...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kevin Maciunas]

On 20/10/21 8:11 am, Jonathan Stroum wrote:

Andrey,

 

I think Yandi is probably right and you should do a resistance measurement on the heating element to confirm.

 

I'd agree - check the resistance of the two pins on the heater(s) to ground.  The boiler and the chassis is grounded.  Should be infinite resistance, any breakdown of the element will see resistance to ground :(

It'll then start tripping any earth leakage protection on your household circuit...

Extracting the boiler element, for me, required a 120 lb air-driven impact wrench.  I think I read earlier that your machine is a BII and many of those element threads were treated with a glue type sealer.  Don’t recall the size of the nut. You could probably get it loose with a ½” breaker bar with an iron pipe attached for extra leverage.

 

Short answer, it’s a serious task.  I’ll let others answer the question about descaling.

 

The element on mine was a 37mm nut.  Weird size.  I had a 36mm and a 38mm socket...  You access via two holes in the bottom of the chassis - there are two black circular covers that get you straight access to the elements...  Nice design.  I used a 38mm socket and an 18V impact driver to remove it.  Mine is a Minore-II which is the Australian version of a Brewtus-II so it is similar to yours.  I needed to impact drive the heater threads ALL the way - the threadseal they use does not let go.  I replaced it with the impact tool too but used thick PFTE thread tape.  I'd strongly suggest using a breaker bar is a bad idea - the impact driver is much less brutal to boiler.  You'd need to put some kind of chain wrench around the boiler and have your neighbourhood 200lb gorilla hold the boiler to prevent you twisting it out of the machine if you use a bar...

Having done the job on my steam boiler, I reckon I can do the brew boiler (when it goes) in maybe 10mins.  It's a very simple job.  Compared to the heater elements I've replaced in other espresso machines for colleagues, this is a breeze.  But you do need an impact tool...

Cheers

/Kevin

[Andrey Sychev]

Thanks for the information - are there any pictures? Are you saying you can access heating elements just by turning over the machine? Is removing a brew boiler on option? That would be way easier to ship to WLL and or replace. I have yet to drain it (nut on top of the group head?) but think it’s filled with sludge from cracked heating element.

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On Oct 20, 2021, at 11:03 PM, Kevin Maciunas <kevin.m...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Andrey Sychev]

Also impact driver or impact wrench? And would a cordless version  handle the glue?

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On Oct 21, 2021, at 11:10 AM, Andrey Sychev <andr...@aol.com> wrote:

Thanks for the information - are there any pictures? Are you saying you can access heating elements just by turning over the machine? Is removing a brew boiler on option? That would be way easier to ship to WLL and or replace. I have yet to drain it (nut on top of the group head?) but think it’s filled with sludge from cracked heating element.

[Ira]

Hello 'Andrey,

Thursday, October 21, 2021, 8:25:12 AM, you wrote:

Also impact driver or impact wrench? And would a cordless version  handle the glue?

You need a big socket and a 1/2" drive impact, the kind you'd use to remove lug nuts to take it off in place. I've not had to do it yet so I don't know what it entails. Like all things with an impact, be gentle replacing it, hand tighten all the way before trying to tighten it. And then another some amount, 1/4 turn, 1/2 turn or something like that. Maybe someone who knows will pop up with an answer.

-- Ira

[Kevin Maciunas]

Sorry - living 0.5 planets away from the conversation means a 12 hour delay :)

I bought an 18V ebay sourced cheap 1/2" impact driver.  It takes Makita batteries, and claims 520Nm of torque.  It might not do that much, but it does a LOT.  I bought it for use on my ute (truck).  It has not failed to undo anything as yet!  It is mildly amusing to see large tools (a 38mm socket on an impact wrench is not svelte!) being used on what is a kitchen appliance...

I should have said I also used a pick tool - like a dental pick - to chase out the threads in the boiler.  The threadseal they used kind of balled up into little blobs and removing it seemed wise. 

The boilers are not strongly attached to anything - there is no requirement that they be so, and hence the use of an impact tool.  I used it to put the new element in too - these tools just spin the socket till it becomes 'tight' and then start the impact-er-ation.  I'd not usually do the re-assembly with one, but I couldn't see how to manage to hold the boiler while conventionally nipping up the new element..  I did pretty much as Ira says above: run it home till it is fully screwed in and then about a 1/8th of a turn in impact mode.  Didn't leak.  I kind-of thought it might but it has not leaked a drop.

The only complication I had  is the new boiler elements have flying leads, the old ones just 2 spade connectors.  But a 38mm socket has tons of space so the wires were just smooshed into the spare space and the thing screwed into place. 

There is a small hazard though as anyone who has worked inside an Expobar machine would know: the metal parts are sheared and the edges bite the unwary.  The circular holes in the frame with the black plastic covers are a case in point....

Happy repairing!

Cheers

/Kevin

[Richard]

Some older Brewtus II were manufactured with epoxy thread sealers. Allow boiler to heat up and the bolt will be easy to remove by hand.

I had a 2006 Brewtus II and upgraded to PID kit. I could not remove the brew boiler temp probe.

I had to travel to WLL in Rochester who told me about the the thread sealer. Exopobar did that for about a year.

WLL were able to heat up the brew boiler and then easily removed the bolt.

Hint: look at the 2 connectors under the water tank. There are 3 plugs. Swap one of the connectors to the empty plug, turn on the Brewtus II and the boilers will heat up even if water tank is removed.

[Andrey Sychev]

Thanks for the tip. Aside of driving to Rochester, is taking brew boiler off the machine and shipping it an option on early B2? Any tips on reaching Todd S.?

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On Oct 23, 2021, at 12:41 PM, Richard <richard...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Dave B]

happily NO MORE EXPOS FOR SALE !!!

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[triplereef]

For what it's worth:

I removed my steam boiler completely and secured it to a rig (so thst i wouldn't crush the side walls) and tried to remove it with my pneumatic impact wrench which is a small 250ft-lb IR using a 1 7/16" socket.  It didn't budge the sealant that WLL had used during the rebuild.

I didn't want to buy new air tools so i took it to a car shop around the corner; their high-torque wrench got it off in a couple seconds.

When i reassembled with the new element i used "T plus 2" sealant which is an NSF rated non-hardening pipe sealant rated to withstand 10,000 psi.  I have had that sealant on for about a year with no leaks, no pressure loss.  I think the hardening epoxy sealant just isn't necessary and modern products are much more practical.

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