Brew Boiler

[Roy Aguilar]

Hello all, so I recently upgraded from a bbe to a expobar brewtus iv non rotary, I’ve had this thing for about a week and I’m not much of a milk drinker so I usually only have brew boiler on but today wife wanted a capp so I turned on both boilers. This is my first e61 machine and was wondering if vibration pump comes on intermittently every few minutes for a couple of seconds is normal. Or am I possibly looking at something to repair in the near future?  Thanks in advance!

[Herman Dickens]

May be that the check valve for the steam is leaking. If so you should be able to hear it. I think it's called a vacuum relief valve.

Herman

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 4:02 PM Roy Aguilar <rragu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all, so I recently upgraded from a bbe to a expobar brewtus iv non rotary, I’ve had this thing for about a week and I’m not much of a milk drinker so I usually only have brew boiler on but today wife wanted a capp so I turned on both boilers. This is my first e61 machine and was wondering if vibration pump comes on intermittently every few minutes for a couple of seconds is normal. Or am I possibly looking at something to repair in the near future?  Thanks in advance!

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[Roy]

I think it may be this.. I hear a light hiss and im thinking its coming from that area but it also looks as if the safety valve is leaking (lightly) as well. But I am wondering if that is just due to the fact of it doing its job inadvertently because of the vacuum valve. O-ring replacements or just switch out both valves with new ones? Any recs?

[Ben McCafferty]

Hey Roy,

I’m joining late so forgive me if I missed something that was already said.

I think you have two issues. 

The hiss is pretty clear and easy—especially since you only have it with the steam boiler. That boiler has a vacuum relief valve, and it’s an easy fix. There’s an o-ring, size 007 if memory serves. Take off the top part (that the needle protrudes through) and clean it all up and replace the o-ring with a new one of high-temp silicone. Buy extras, this is a relatively frequent repair (couple times a year running my machine 12 hours a day).

The pump thing seems unrelated to me, and seems like probably a leak in the pump itself. The water level in the brew boiler is falling, and when the sensor detects that, it has the pump cycle on to refill. The vibe pumps do wear, and so that’s my guess. Also not uncommon to have those wear out as they are a simple metal piston.

Other than that I’d look for leaks that allow water level to fall.

Oh, and as to the other safety valve (on top of the steam boiler), it’s an over-pressure valve also and if it goes, you’ll know it—sounds like a freight train coming through for a few seconds, then it reseats and gets ready to scare the hell out of you again. In my experience, it’s not a gentle hiss.  ;)

Hope some of that helps, and forgive me if anything is misstated as I’m working from memory at the moment.

b

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[Herman Dickens]

As Ben said replace the o-ring. If the pump stops and you don't hear the hiss that's all you need to do. If you fix the hiss and the pump still keeps coming on you have another issue. I've had the o-ring leak cause my pump to come on like yours is doing so hopefully that will fix it.

Herman

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[Ben McCafferty]

Good point Herman (and hello!).

If enough steam is escaping, that could drop the water level in the steam boiler and cause the pump to cycle to fill it back up. I mistyped earlier I think when I said “brew boiler” for what gets refilled. Listen to Herman, he’s smarter than me.  ;)

Best,

b

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[Herman Dickens]

Lol. Hey Ben. I can't tell you how many times Ben has helped me when my Brewt gave trouble! This is a great group even  though a lot of us have moved on to different machines over the years. 

Herman

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[Roy]

Oh yes, I totally hear you! And thanks for all the info, I will try that next. great thing about the brewtus I purchased was that the previous owner had added quite a few upgrades like the flow control and all exterior parts to walnut wood as well as some others which is nice and I'm coming from a Breville Barista Express. I was hoping to get into e61's but wasn't sure if I wanted to go all the way and spend almost 3k for a Bianca or 4k for decent lol But all in all im loving this brewtus. Thanks again and looking forward to this community for sure!

[Roy]

oh forgot to ask, but where do you all suggest to get parts from? WLL, 1st, etc? Thanks!

[Ben McCafferty]

Those are both good, plus Chris Coffee, espressoparts.com, seattle espresso gear, etc.

b

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[Roy]

Great, thanks!

[Roy]

Update* So I ended up swapping out the o-rings on the vacuum valve and seems the small leak/hiss sound is coming from the "tall safety valve" ( https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/expobar-tall-safety-valve-65000110?variant=14409383084091 ) its light and not leaking any water. I don't drink milk drink very often but may have one here or there so I usually have this boiler off ( I love this feature on the brewtus :)) Best bet would be to replace this part or should I try to troubleshoot more?

Thanks!

[R Michael Lovelady]

Your description sounds like the pressure stat might need to be adjusted, have you tried that yet?  The safety valve fires when it gets above ~1.7 or 1.8 bar IIRC.  Try adjusting down to 1.5 if it's going higher than that.  Also, if the adjustment won't hold the pressure stat might need to be replaced, they can eventually fail since they are plastic and degrade over time.

[Brian]

Definitely worth checking that the boiler isn’t over pressure. But a slow consistent leak is certainly likely to be a failed safety valve. When the safety valve goes off it tends not to be subtle. 

I purchased my brewtus IV a little over a year ago, and experienced the same issue, I’m the third owner of this 10 year old machine, no surprise that rubber parts would be starting to fail. There was a slow leak from the safety valve, barely audible, but it would make cups on the warming tray wet, and would cause the fill valve and the pump to kick On to refill the boiler ever 10 minutes or so.

Generally speaking I don’t recommend messing with safety valves on steam boilers. For the price it’s better to just replace it and know that everything is working as intended. Additionally manufacturers tend to make them hard to service, they are often somehow sealed with a river or safety wire once calibrated.  I will say the one thing maybe worth trying is to intentionally open the safety valve. If you feel comfortable with it, you could try burping it a few times to see if it doesn’t reseat. You’ll need to pull up on the little shaft sticking out of the top of the valve while the boiler has a little pressure on it. Make sure the machine is unplugged, and Don’t do it while the machine is at operating pressure. I’d recommend like .2-.4 bar. Use long pliers/channel locks to pull the release, and shield your hands with a dry towel or high temp gloves If that fixes it, great! If not just replace it with a new one. 

Best of luck!.

[Roy]

Brian, same with my machine, as I am the third owner as well.  The slight audible hiss is exactly whats happening, as well as the pump kicks on about every 10-15 mins. I ended up just purchasing a new valve from WLL and should be here on Friday so **fingers crossed** this will solve the issue. 

[MDR]

I recently replaced my steam safety valve. It released steam intermittently, at a pretty low rate. I had occasional success reseating the original valve by forcing a larger steam release, but I decided to replace the part.  I took apart the original, but couldn't see any damage on the seat. I guess I could have used a valve compound on it to regrind, but.....

I purchased a 1.6 bar 3/8? safety valve from espresso parts/Jura. I usually use WLL, but they were showing out of stock. (Jura showed in stock, but that was inaccurate as I had to wait 2 weeks for the order to ship.)

It seems that the thread size is pretty standard. However, not many places carry the 1.6 bar version, most are 1.8 or 2.0 bar. I doubt it matters much given that so much of the boiler design/mfg is standard but I went with the stock pressure.

[Roy]

So I received my "tall safety valve" from WLL and looks nothing like my current nor does it look like what I ordered from their website. Im wondering if this is the wrong valve or if it is just an updated version, or if it even matters, but I am not sure. 

[MDR]

The one I just installed is similar but not quite the same, with different cutouts machined into the side.  I don't think it matters.  The critical issues are the thread size at the base and the safety release pressure. Yours is marked 3/8, which should be the correct size.  I can't see from the markings what the pressure rating is, but I understand it to be 1.6bar. Should be marked.

I believe that the threads are a straight, not tapered fit, where sealing relies on the a gasket at the bottom of the receiving female thread. I did use an NSF thread sealant on it just in case.  You could use teflon tape if you wished.

Murray

[Roy]

Thanks for all the help. Ended up being the valve that was leaking. But also wanted to share the custom wrap I did to there Brewtus. A couple of areas that I need to redo but all in all Im really happy how it came out!