Berkeley Raspberry Pi meeting March 1st -- Jam Time!

[tom r lopes]

The weekend of Feb 29th is the 8th anniversary of the Raspberry Pi computer.  

So our meeting on March 1st will be part of that celebration.  It is already accepted 

as an official event.  https://www.raspberrypi.org/jam/ (zoom to Berkeley on the map)  

With Event page here:  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/berkeley-raspberry-pi-jam-tickets-91996019571  I created it with only 5 tickets, because I didn't want to overwhelm the 

space.  But I may add tickets or instruct people to message me before attending.  

As an official event we get the Raspberry Pi branding kit and here it is:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jx2fmkxXACWABzbK6   Included 3 T shirts (i'll keep the L 

so XL and M up for grabs), Raspberry Pi logo stickers, one Raspberry Jam button, 

Event poster, blinking led project cards with 5 little hardware kits (breadboard, jumper 

wires and leds - No Pi, It is BYoPi, I guess) and a USB drive with project tutorials 

(one of which is how to build a WordPress site on a PI, Argh!)  

Also my friend, Phil, is confirmed.  I asked if he could talk about some Pi projects.  He 

has used the Pi to control heating and cooling, and other things.  Should be interesting.  

Phil's background:  He is a long time Linux user.  Has worked as Linux Sys Admin, but now 

I think he is doing product development.  He has done some embedded Linux recently.  

The company he works at is a server hardware firm that designs machines that drive 

walls of monitors like you would see in a "mission control center"  

He is a long-time "Maker"  he used to design and build his own recumbent bicycles.  

Welding and machining and all that.  

If you would like show off something or give a talk (or know of someone) let me know.  

Hope to see you there, 

Thomas

[ace36]

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 8:58 PM tom r lopes <tomr...@gmail.com> wrote:

The weekend of Feb 29th is the 8th anniversary of the Raspberry Pi computer. 

So our meeting on March 1st will be part of that celebration.  It is already accepted 

as an official event.  https://www.raspberrypi.org/jam/ (zoom to Berkeley on the map)  

With Event page here:  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/berkeley-raspberry-pi-jam-tickets-91996019571  I created it with only 5 tickets, because I didn't want to overwhelm the space.  But I may add tickets or instruct people to message me before attending. 

 

As an official event we get the Raspberry Pi branding kit and here it is:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jx2fmkxXACWABzbK6   Included 3 T shirts (i'll keep the L 

so XL and M up for grabs), Raspberry Pi logo stickers, one Raspberry Jam button, 

Event poster, blinking led project cards with 5 little hardware kits (breadboard, jumper 

wires and leds - No Pi, It is BYoPi, I guess) and a USB drive with project tutorials 

(one of which is how to build a WordPress site on a PI, Argh!) 

Hey, that's all great!

Just as a suggestion, would you (Tom) and/or other friends, technical

acquiantances and local Raspberry Pi aficionados consider creating

a special mailing-list perhaps even modeled after this one -- this

Googlegroup for the Berkeley Linux User Group -- specifically

dedicated to your Raspberry Pi events and projects??

There is already ongoing activity from this week's Googlegroup posts

about establishing a pi.berkeleylug.com web-presence, so the idea

of having a mailing-list separate from this one might not be too

farfetched after all... of course depending upon how many other

interested parties and local Raspberry Pi event attendees there are.

Also, and admittedly a nitpicky point, I notice that the (Tom's) March 1st

event posting is entitled 'Berkeley Raspberry Pi meeting March 1st'

as opposed to 'BerkeleyLUG Raspberry meeting March 1st'.

Are you (Tom) perhaps trying to attract all Raspberry Pi users to

your events, even including those not using Linux on their devices??

Because according to the current 'Third-party operating system images for

Raspberry Pi' section of the Downloads page https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ,

there are Pi downloads available for the non-Linux OS's Windows 10 IoT Core

(see https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot-core/downloads ) and for

RISC OS (see https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi .)

-A

---
When you must stand up for something important in the face of those who would readily cut you down, then you must continually remind yourself of the words of the great Mahatma Gandhi,

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
---

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Aaron (acoh...@gmail.com):

> Just as a suggestion, would you (Tom) and/or other friends, technical
> acquiantances and local Raspberry Pi aficionados consider creating
> a special mailing-list perhaps even modeled after this one -- this
> Googlegroup for the Berkeley Linux User Group -- specifically
> dedicated to your Raspberry Pi events and projects?

I would suggest going slow on adopting such measures, and doing them
only when/if the level of Berkeley Pi postings' traffic becomes
semi-problematic on this mailing list (aka Google Group).

There's been in the past a tendency (in LUGs) to think that every newly
launched effort requires a separate mailing list, leading to a profusion
of such mailing lists, all of them basically ghost towns. IMO, that is
an outcome to be avoided.

The most important and initial question, as usual for technical
measures, should be 'What problem are we trying to solve, with this?'
Eventually, the answer might become 'Too much Berkeley Pi message
traffic overwhelming the BerkeleyLUG mailing list'. When that has
occurred is of course a judgement call for the listadmins to make.

In the meantime, Tom might want to adopt a standard prefix for Subject
headers about Berkeley Pi (like, say, 'Berkeley Pi:'). Among other
advantages, this helps recipients use filters to classify incoming
mailing list mail by topic (or autofile it, or discard it, etc.) as they
prefer.


> Are you (Tom) perhaps trying to attract *all* Raspberry Pi users to

> your events, even including those not using Linux on their devices??

I obviously don't speak in any way for Tom, but, frankly, why not?
If people running weird proprietary operating systems[1] on their RPis
want to come and do maker-like activities with other enthusiasts,
I see no reason they ought not to be welcome.

Also, at the risk of posing a troublesome question, what's so holy about
Linux, anyway? Here's a gedankenexperiment for you to consider:
Suppose, tomorrow, there were a court decision that effectively
terminated the Linux kernel project for reasons of legal infractions,
and supposed it were likely that this judgement would be final and have
enforcement teeth to it. What would you do? Candidate answer: You and
whole organised communities of Linux users would do a quick migration to
either one of the BSD kernels or to the Illumos (ex-OpenSolaris) kernel,
and basically this would take only about a week and not make a huge
difference except that hardware support would be a bit thinner than
we're used to for the following six months. And when the dust settled,
would you really care which kernel you were running atop? I rather
think 'no'.


Anyway:

A possibly-comparable situation: Back in 1998 when I and a few other
people were planning the original Windows Refund Day, our original
assumption was that everyone who showed up would be doing so because
they were Linux/BSD users who found the obligatory MS-Windows 9x
preloads on their x86 gear irksome -- but then we started hearing from
several substantial minority interests who had their own problems with
the preload policies:

1. Solaris x86 users. (One of these, my acquaintance Brett Glass,
kept giving interviews claiming Windows Refund Day management
was unfairly hostile to proprietary OSes because we were all
Communists or something. He didn't get a lot of traction with
this because we were cheerfully welcoming rather than hostile.)

2. Major corporate IT people irked by having to pay for a Win9x
licence for each machine they intended to run WinNT, WinNT Server,
or Novell NetWare on, instead.

These folks all had legitimate points, and we were happy, once we
noticed them, to include them in our events and literature.


[1] Or exotic open source OSes for ARM. I'll cheerfully admit
I was totally unaware of RISC OS until just now, so thank you, Aaron!

--
Cheers, "Why doesn't anyone invite copyeditors to parties,
Rick Moen when we're such cool people out with whom to hang?"
ri...@linuxmafia.com -- @laureneoneal (Lauren O'Neal)
McQ! (4x80)

[Peter Mui]

I've posted the March 1 event to the SF Bay Area Raspberry Pi Meetup: https://www.meetup.com/Raspberry-Pi-SF-Bay-Area/events/nnqnnrybcfbcb/

However when I go to the Eventbrite page it's already sold out there: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/berkeley-raspberry-pi-jam-tickets-91996019571

-Peter

[tom r lopes]

Yes.  

Blue Door Cafe is not that big.  And I'm not reserving space with them.  

So i created the event with only 5 tickets.  I'll probably add more and add 

to the description "limited space"  

Thomas

[tom r lopes]

Aaron, sorry for the double email.  Reply in Gmail sent my response to you only, 

but I meant it for the group:  

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 8:36 AM ace36 <acoh...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 8:58 PM tom r lopes <tomr...@gmail.com> wrote:

The weekend of Feb 29th is the 8th anniversary of the Raspberry Pi computer. 

So our meeting on March 1st will be part of that celebration.  It is already accepted 

as an official event.  https://www.raspberrypi.org/jam/ (zoom to Berkeley on the map)  

With Event page here:  https://www.eventbrite.com/e/berkeley-raspberry-pi-jam-tickets-91996019571  I created it with only 5 tickets, because I didn't want to overwhelm the space.  But I may add tickets or instruct people to message me before attending. 

 

As an official event we get the Raspberry Pi branding kit and here it is:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jx2fmkxXACWABzbK6   Included 3 T shirts (i'll keep the L 

so XL and M up for grabs), Raspberry Pi logo stickers, one Raspberry Jam button, 

Event poster, blinking led project cards with 5 little hardware kits (breadboard, jumper 

wires and leds - No Pi, It is BYoPi, I guess) and a USB drive with project tutorials 

(one of which is how to build a WordPress site on a PI, Argh!) 

Hey, that's all great!

Just as a suggestion, would you (Tom) and/or other friends, technical

acquiantances and local Raspberry Pi aficionados consider creating

a special mailing-list perhaps even modeled after this one -- this

Googlegroup for the Berkeley Linux User Group -- specifically

dedicated to your Raspberry Pi events and projects??

There is already ongoing activity from this week's Googlegroup posts

about establishing a pi.berkeleylug.com web-presence, so the idea

of having a mailing-list separate from this one might not be too

farfetched after all... of course depending upon how many other

interested parties and local Raspberry Pi event attendees there are.

Yeah, pretty much it is only me who posts messages about Berkeley Pi.  

So, sorry for generating all the email traffic :-)  I really hope that I haven't 

been spammy with all this.  Rick's suggestion is good and so from now on 

I'll preface my announcements with "Berkeley Pi:"  That way they will be 

easy to filter or ignore.  

I believe Berkeley Pi is an appropriate offshoot of BerkeleyLUG and that 

the Raspberry Pi is relevant to Linux (i'll say more about this later)  

If the will of the people is that it must go then I will separate it, no 

problem.  

And Aaron, I have no problem with you bringing this up as I have already 

been thinking about this, too. 

 

Also, and admittedly a nitpicky point, I notice that the (Tom's) March 1st

event posting is entitled 'Berkeley Raspberry Pi meeting March 1st'

as opposed to 'BerkeleyLUG Raspberry meeting March 1st'.

Are you (Tom) perhaps trying to attract all Raspberry Pi users to

your events, even including those not using Linux on their devices??

YES!  March 1st is an all and only Pi meeting.  The date happens to 

coincide with the 8th anniversary of the Pi computer.  

Even though we are now calling it "Berkeley Pi"  I have stressed in previous 

announcements that it is not exclusive to the Pi and have mentioned Arduino, 

for example.  Or firmware or hardware hacking and reuse, etc.  

 

Because according to the current 'Third-party operating system images for

Raspberry Pi' section of the Downloads page https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ,

there are Pi downloads available for the non-Linux OS's Windows 10 IoT Core

(see https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot-core/downloads ) and for

RISC OS (see https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi .)

Yeah I have seen those, and downloaded.  Never actually wrote to an SD card, though.  

Raspbian is just so good and useful.  

But your comment has got me to look at some of those other OS'es.  And RISC OS looks 

really interesting , actually.  It's history is it comes from the people who created ARM cpu.  

I may actually load one up as a demonstration.   

As for Windows 10 IOT, seems to be a rebranding of Windows Embedded. Ugh.  And it 

doesn't seem to be a SD card image.  Instead you download and run a Windows program.  

An IOT Dashboard which can write the SD card.  I have't been able to find a video that show

it running.  I found this:  

https://jeremylindsayni.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/windows-10-iot-and-the-raspberry-pi-3-installation-failure-and-eventually-success/

 My impression is that Windows IOT is a platform for creating Apps for Windows embedded.  

Which would be interesting if you were an experienced Windows programmer.  

Not the accessible "teach programming to kids" which is the Raspberry Foundation's aim.  

So I would argue the Pi is primarily a Linux computer.  And I think it is Linux 

that gives this little board its power.  

We all have laptops and desktops running Linux.  That's Linux primarily for 

a user.  A desktop, like gnome,kde xfce and so on.  

But we also have Linux on devices or machines.  Like when BerkeleyLUG had 

a booth at the 2012 Maker Faire, we pointed to Linux on your router (WRT54G) on your 

gaming machine (Playstation) on your dvr (Tivo) on your ereader (Kindle) 

All these have Linux but it is not really accessible.  Not so easy to roll your own.  

You would need some hardware specific build tools or cross compiler to create 

an OS image.  

Now with the Pi we have a platform that is like an embedded Linux device.  But one 

that you can attach a mouse and keyboard.  Not for the Linux devices I mentioned.  

(Actually, Sony had a Linux kit for the Playstation.)   And then you have Debian!  

You can make a Pi do things because Linux can do it.  A Pi bluetooth speaker - you 

can make you laptop or desktop into a bluetooth speaker the same way.  If a 

Windows user wants to build something with the Pi, they install software with sudo 

apt install.  And configure the service by editing a txt file.  Learning the GNU/Linux 

way of doing things.  

The Raspberry Pi is a great ambassador for Linux.  

Sorry for the wall o' text.  I'm just a little passionate.  

Gotta go build something - Later, 

Thomas

[ace36]

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 8:58 PM tom r lopes <tomr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, pretty much it is only me who posts messages about Berkeley Pi.  

So, sorry for generating all the email traffic :-)  I really hope that I haven't 

been spammy with all this.  Rick's suggestion is good and so from now on 

I'll preface my announcements with "Berkeley Pi:"  That way they will be 

easy to filter or ignore. 

Makes good sense.

Also makes some sense to refer to your (Tom's) 'Berkeley Pi' group as

"Tom's Berkeley Pi group", given that you (Tom) are its founder, its primary

organizer, and clearly its most vocal advocate ;-)

 

I believe Berkeley Pi is an appropriate offshoot of BerkeleyLUG and that 

the Raspberry Pi is relevant to Linux (i'll say more about this later)  

If the will of the people is that it must go then I will separate it, no 

problem.  

Also, and admittedly a nitpicky point, I notice that the (Tom's) March 1st

event posting is entitled 'Berkeley Raspberry Pi meeting March 1st'

as opposed to 'BerkeleyLUG Raspberry meeting March 1st'.

Are you (Tom) perhaps trying to attract all Raspberry Pi users to

your events, even including those not using Linux on their devices??

Because according to the current 'Third-party operating system images for

Raspberry Pi' section of the Downloads page https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/ ,

there are Pi downloads available for the non-Linux OS's Windows 10 IoT Core

(see https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot-core/downloads ) and for

RISC OS (see https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi .)

As for Windows 10 IOT, seems to be a rebranding of Windows Embedded. Ugh.  And it 

doesn't seem to be a SD card image.  Instead you download and run a Windows program.  

An IOT Dashboard which can write the SD card.  I have't been able to find a video that show

it running.  I found this:  

https://jeremylindsayni.wordpress.com/2016/05/02/windows-10-iot-and-the-raspberry-pi-3-installation-failure-and-eventually-success/

 My impression is that Windows IOT is a platform for creating Apps for Windows embedded.  

Which would be interesting if you were an experienced Windows programmer.  

Not the accessible "teach programming to kids" which is the Raspberry Foundation's aim. 

OTOH, one reason that comes to mind to avoid bringing Microsoft into the equation of Tom's Raspberry Pi
group is that some of we Linux/BSD users and even developers still might not particularly wish to
encourage Microsoft's quite specific overtures to FOSS developers (a few might even call these unwelcome

"faux-Embracing incursions") to get us/them exposed to Microsoft's own software as well as to that of third-party

companies directly owned and managed by MS.
According to last month's Berkeleyside e-article 'Microsoft opens new office in Berkeley, a first for the East Bay' at
https://www.berkeleyside.com/2020/01/23/microsoft-opens-new-office-in-berkeley-a-first-for-the-east-bay
Microsoft's new Downtown Berkeley location is located less than a mere 3,500 feet from both BerkeleyLUG's and Tom's
Berkeley Pi group's current Cafe Blue Door meetup location.  

The news item of MS's strategic move was also highlighted in the 'Berkeley office opening' section of
Microsoft's recent Bay Area Blog post at https://blogs.microsoft.com/bayarea/2020/01/21/california-bay-area-presence/
Is it really so farfetched that local Microsoft third-party company representatives as well as those of the parent

company will be at least minimally interested in further increasing by whatever means possible, interest in their
products for IoT and embedded systems (e.g., for the Raspberry Pi) to perhaps an admittedly smaller degree than

they clearly are for gathering local talent for their "AI and research-based teams together at [their] new site in Berkeley"???

The Raspberry Pi is a great ambassador for Linux.

OTOH, the Raspberry Pi and similar devices also present visible targets for Microsoft to leverage its own

and its third-party companies' embedded projects+products in order to increase their Mindshare and

Intellectual Property portfolio (and even eventual Marketshare) in that particular niche.

And not to sound overly alarmist, but I think it's entirely conceivable that supposedly "neutral" advocates for

Microsoft's third-party companies or even these companies' IT folks themselves could "crash" local

FOSS-oriented events (e.g., Tom's Raspberry Pi group meetups from the increasingly extensive publicity) in

order to lure FOSS/Linux users+devs into just trying out Microsoft's own use of projects+products on their

optimized platforms rather than toward the reverse case that I'd like to think many of us would rather hope for;

the reverse specifically being we FOSS/Linux users+devs drawing Microsoft's users of their projects+products

into FOSS/Linux instead :-\

-A

[Rick Moen]

Quoting ace36 (acoh...@gmail.com):

> OTOH, one reason that comes to mind to avoid bringing Microsoft into
> the equation of Tom's Raspberry Pi group is that some of we Linux/BSD

> users and even developers *still* might not particularly wish to

> encourage Microsoft's quite specific overtures to FOSS developers (a
> few might even call these unwelcome "faux-Embracing incursions") to
> get us/them exposed to Microsoft's own software as well as to that of
> third-party companies directly owned and managed by MS.

[...]

Pardon me, Aaron, but you're indulging an obsolete and inapplicable
habit of thinking to this matter.

Open source operating system and other open source software projects are
just _not_ trapped in the old, dismal zero-sum squabble over mindshare,
because open source projects simply do not live or die by market
percentage or users or developers. We don't suffer if they do well,
as long as our projects have the requisite minimum number of active
participants to keep them healthy and moving forward.

It's actually just a little embarrassing to see Bay Area Linux people
venting paranoia over 'competition' and 'crashing of events' by
Microsoft. It implies that the Bay Area Linux people in question are
still a bit slow about figuring out the broader implications of open
source licensing.

(To be honest, there was a time in the 1990s when we Linux activists
routinely 'crashed' a few major Microsoft marketing events here in the
South Bay just in a spirit of good-natured rivalry, though we were
careful to be extremely well behaved. Look up 'Silicon Valley Tea
Party' for a noted example. We were basically just better at marketing
than they were.)

[Michael Paoli]

Crash the party(?)

> From: "Rick Moen" <ri...@linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: Berkeley Pi: Re: Berkeley Raspberry Pi meeting March
> 1st -- Jam Time!
> Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 10:06:47 -0800

> It's actually just a little embarrassing to see Bay Area Linux people
> venting paranoia over 'competition' and 'crashing of events' by
> Microsoft. It implies that the Bay Area Linux people in question are

> (To be honest, there was a time in the 1990s when we Linux activists
> routinely 'crashed' a few major Microsoft marketing events here in the
> South Bay just in a spirit of good-natured rivalry, though we were
> careful to be extremely well behaved. Look up 'Silicon Valley Tea
> Party' for a noted example. We were basically just better at marketing
> than they were.)

Credit where credit is due?
Despite all the various things Microsoft has (and hasn't) done, attempted,
etc. Microsoft does (at least sometimes) significantly contribute to
open source ... sometimes even Linux. Intents and motives might be another
question, but regardless ...

And, Microsoft folks "crashing" Linux events? I think that's really mostly
just a non-issue. In all my years going to many [L]UG meetings, among the
Linux(/Unix/Ubuntu/...) meetings, I'm pretty sure only and exactly once
did some Microsoft employee come (at least that I was ever aware of).
It was no big deal, I don't recall the reason(s) they were particularly
interested to come, but they did. It was probably a BUUG.org meeting, or
maybe BALUG.org - or less likely - BerkelelyLUG.com - it was quite a number
of years ago (I think well over a decade). Anyway, no biggie, everyone was
civil, really a non-issue. As at least most such [L]UG meetings are
approximately "public" events, within reason most anyone can come. And
if they behave reasonably (almost all do almost all the time), they even
get to stay.

So, for practical purposes, I think such "party crashing" is (almost?)
entirely a non-issue ... at least based upon all I've seen thus far in
practice.

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michae...@cal.berkeley.edu):

> Crash the party(?)

The question mark is merited, IMO, as the underlying thinking lacks...
thinking. (You'll note that, upthread, I put 'crashed' in scare quotes
for that very reason.)

> And, Microsoft folks "crashing" Linux events? I think that's really mostly
> just a non-issue. In all my years going to many [L]UG meetings, among the
> Linux(/Unix/Ubuntu/...) meetings, I'm pretty sure only and exactly once
> did some Microsoft employee come (at least that I was ever aware of).
> It was no big deal, I don't recall the reason(s) they were particularly
> interested to come, but they did.

Over here at CABAL, we had a lovely summer-time afternoon and evening
with barbecue, and a fellow who identified himself as a Microsoft
employee attended: I smiled and welcomed him to my house. And things
went well until Christian Einfeldt started giving the visiting
Microsoftie a hard time with leading questions and challenges. I kept
coming out, several times, to demand that Einfeldt cool it, making clear
I was _mightily_ displeased with his injuring the hospitality of my
household, but this was necessarily a reactive response, and Einfeldt
basically succeeded in fscking up my ability to be a gracious host for
the visitor.

It's been several years since then, but I very definitely have not
forgotten.

> So, for practical purposes, I think such "party crashing" is (almost?)
> entirely a non-issue ... at least based upon all I've seen thus far in
> practice.

I think the entire notion is a bit mentally unbalanced, to be frank.
Not to mention a bit pathetic.