Reports

[Martin Blais]

How many people here use bean-report as their main way to generate data from Beancount?

How many use bean-web?

Does anybody still care about bean-web now that Fava exists?

Also... is it possible to bean-bake Fava (or some equivalent creation of a static version for sharing)?

Any input appreciated,

(Reason I'm asking is: I'm thinking about

- rewriting the query engine to something more powerful and general, and promoting it from experimental and somewhat flaky to the main way of getting data out

- rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)

- deleting bean-reports and all of beancount/reports, or replacing most of it by SQL queries

- in the process deleting the Holdings code

Basically, I think that with a slightly improved query engine I could delete a ton of code without removing functionality at all.)

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Sun, Apr 01, 2018 at 01:53:19AM -0400, Martin Blais wrote:
> - rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that
> basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any
> special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)

Given Fava does that too, and also provides useful reporting out of the
box, would it be worth to have another implementation of the same "web
based bean-query console" thing? (Maybe yes, if, say, you consider that
Fava has too many additional dependencies. Asking just to understand
which design constraints you're considering.)

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[Leho Kraav]

On Sunday, April 1, 2018 at 12:53:42 AM UTC-5, Martin Blais wrote:

- rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)

Perhaps instead of rolling our own, it'd make sense to have people go with something like https://github.com/metabase/metabase (https://superset.incubator.apache.org seems more difficult) and have a really good query collection and a process for developing / updating queries.

[Martin Blais]

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli <za...@upsilon.cc> wrote:

On Sun, Apr 01, 2018 at 01:53:19AM -0400, Martin Blais wrote:
> - rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that
> basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any
> special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)

Given Fava does that too, and also provides useful reporting out of the
box, would it be worth to have another implementation of the same "web
based bean-query console" thing? (Maybe yes, if, say, you consider that
Fava has too many additional dependencies. Asking just to understand
which design constraints you're considering.)

It would be different; all the pages would have a single query at the top (which would be visible and which the user could tweak), and rendering would have simple generic rules (e.g. match account name patterns) to create links to e.g. journal pages which, again, would just be queries, but otherwise just render generically (e.g. no special rendering for journals to show postings and such, for instance, which I've always found ugly anyway), even the first version would just render the text in a <pre> tag, really bare bones. The idea is definitely to avoid replicating Fava or bean-web, but instead provide something that's doing 60~80% of that functionality with an incredibly simple implementation (like, one file, calling out to bean-query library code). Basically, a web-based interface to a more powerful and generic bean-query.

Now the twist in the plot: bean-query itself would expand in scope to go beyond Beancount. I'm thinking of generalizing this to make it a row-based (slow) query engine on in-memory tables, something that would be used akin to the "re" library, and that would fit in the space that Pandas is currently in, as well as supporting various input data formats (e.g. you could use it to make queries on a CSV table, for example, or on a filesystem directory, or e.g. on the EXIF files of a list of JPEG files, whatever data sources are implemented, I can imagine many). It would be a generic library that you could instantiate and customize to provide SQL-like functionality to any (Python) program. It would be extensible (allowing you to add new datatypes and control the set of available functions), and Beancount would basically become its first use case of customization (providing Amount, Position and Inventory data types and associated aggregation functions, and a few data sources/tables, "transactions" being the main one, but also one table type for each other directive, e.g. "commodities", etc.). It would support joins and structured fields (e.g. so you could join with per-commodity or per-account metadata, to implement e.g. your own section categorization), and it would provide a command-line tool (to fill in those cases where awk leaves you wanting), but also find a lot of usage from within Python as a library (e.g., like one uses Pandas, on in-memory data tables). It would automatically infer schemas by e.g. looking at the contents of a CSV file, you can usually automatically infer the data types and column names from the header, so it would become an ultimate CSV manipulation tool (I've surveyed the other ones out there, what I've seen falls short of what I'd like to have). Personally I think this could make general data manipulation easier than many of the libraries out there (e.g. Pandas), at least for those cases where performance isn't a concern (simplistic row-based implementation, at least at first) and doing aggregations and pivots and such isn't as easy with just the unix tools than what you can do in a single SQL expression. I spent some time in the past prototyping something like this using sqlite3 - it looks like it's designed to be extensible - but it has proved too difficult and not customizable enough to replace bean-query, we still need something a more customizable than what this offers.

bean-web currently uses the convoluted bean-report code, which I would love to delete (it annoys me as it's not super generalized, e.g. not all of the reports support the same sets of outputs, and it's very ugly OO-style code). Doing this would force me to beef up the SQL functionality a bit to support more, and make the "default" interface to Beancount just that.  I think Fava is already covering the terrain in terms of providing a nice web interface for Beancount and to make that out of scope for it wouldn't make me sad at all (I'd rather let Dominik/Jakob and the rest of that team continue to take over that space, there's a lot of changes going on there, it's very dynamic, I see all the discussions, there's lots going on every day).

This would result in less code for me to maintain, which in the long run is probably a good thing for this project.  I want to move toward a smaller codebase and a more streamlined core set of functionalities. Focus on maintaining the core, focus on solving new problems, e.g. transaction vs. settlement dates, automating the trading accounts idea for currencies, finally getting to properly calculating returns, stuff like that. My vision for a simplified future currently looks like this:

- beancount.query -> transitions gradually to a new project, but which is cutomizable enough to support Beancount's data types, aggregation functions and data "tables" synthesized from its contents.

- beancount -> remains core data structures & schema, grammar/parser, booking algorithm (the special sauce), prices, some scripts, as well as custom data types and table "data sources" for the query library

- beancount.reports, beancount.web -> deprecated / deleted in the favor of Fava, or if you're a minimalist you'd use the simplistic new web-based interface to the query tool

So in short the impetus is this: 

  I would like to get rid of custom report code and the Holdings code, 

    which is what bean-web is implemented with, therefore I'd like to get rid of bean-web as well, 

      which is fine because Fava provides something better, 

        but bean-bake relies on bean-web, and so I'm still not sure if zipping up Fava to a static web site is possible. 

(So far this is just an idea, nothing has been removed/done yet.)

[Mattijs Hoitink]

I used bean-report for some simple stuff but never used bean-web, I went straight for fava. Fava has become even easier to use now that it has an electron shell.

I am interested in a more powerful query language because I'm exploring custom reports for my personal ledger. Something separate that works with beancount and can be built upon sounds like a sweet deal :)

[Dominik Aumayr]

> Fava has become even easier to use now that it has an electron shell.

Please note that the Electron shell will go away in the next version: https://github.com/beancount/fava/pull/692

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[Daniel Clemente]

I use bean-report for a few commands, mainly to get the price database, and all balances.

For most operations I use bean-query or the web interface, which is fast and reliable.

I don't use Fava and I feel it adds too much complexity. It depends on a lot of external code that I don't have time to review (I just tried to count it: npm wants to install 588 packages of JavaScript code!). Running it inside a sandbox (Docker) is possible but it's harder to set up and this infrastructure can have other problems.

Fava doesn't have the simplicity that I find in beancount. It also didn't work without JS when I tried it some years ago (maybe it has improved).

I'd be fine with uglier web pages if they provide the basic accounting needs. Though they don't need to be ugly.

I also use the holdings code and aggregate_holdings_by, but I could do the same in some other way or keep the old code.

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[Martin Blais]

On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 12:10 AM, Mattijs Hoitink <mattijs...@gmail.com> wrote:

I used bean-report for some simple stuff but never used bean-web, I went straight for fava. Fava has become even easier to use now that it has an electron shell.

I am interested in a more powerful query language because I'm exploring custom reports for my personal ledger. Something separate that works with beancount and can be built upon sounds like a sweet deal :)

To iterate on that: I would definitely make that new thing as minimal (and minimal-looking so) as possible so it doesn't "compete" attention with a full-fledged web front-end like Fava. In fact, I would expect that Fava would eventually integrate some of that functionality, e.g., adding a page with a query at the top and doing a generic rendering of the results.

 

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[Dominik Aumayr]

> In fact, I would expect that Fava would eventually integrate some of that functionality, e.g., adding a page with a query at the top and doing a generic rendering of the results.

Fava does this already, see the "Query" page in the sidebar.

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[Jakob Schnitzer]

On Sun, Apr 01, 2018 at 10:03:43PM +0300, Daniel Clemente wrote:
>I use bean-report for a few commands, mainly to get the price database, and
>all balances.
>For most operations I use bean-query or the web interface, which is fast
>and reliable.
>
>I don't use Fava and I feel it adds too much complexity. It depends on a
>lot of external code that I don't have time to review (I just tried to
>count it: npm wants to install 588 packages of JavaScript code!). Running

The actual Javascript code of Fava only has 3 dependencies (plus one
polyfill to support MS Edge): d3 for charts, codemirror for the editors,
and Mousetrap for key bindings. I'm trying to keep this list minimal and
I believe all the dependencies we have are very much worth it as they
allow us to provide useful and powerful features that wouldn't be
possible otherwise.

Are there other aspects of Fava that you find too complex?

That high number is mostly a result of the build tools (rollup, used by
most JS libraries) and the lint tools for JS and CSS (eslint and
stylelint respectively).

>it inside a sandbox (Docker) is possible but it's harder to set up and this
>infrastructure can have other problems.

A simple `pip install fava` will do, there's no need to install anything
node-related yourself.

>Fava doesn't have the simplicity that I find in beancount. It also didn't
>work without JS when I tried it some years ago (maybe it has improved).

Many of the Fava's core features (like charts, the editor, journal
filtering, and toggleable account trees) can't be implemented without
Javascript, so it can't really work without JS. Is there a reason apart
from the complexity argument above for which you'd want to use it
without JS?

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[Jakob Schnitzer]

On Sun, Apr 01, 2018 at 01:53:19AM -0400, Martin Blais wrote:

>How many people here use bean-report as their main way to generate data
>from Beancount?
>How many use bean-web?
>Does anybody still care about bean-web now that Fava exists?
>
>Also... is it possible to bean-bake Fava (or some equivalent creation of a
>static version for sharing)?

It isn't, no (and it can't really be due to the amount of interactive
switches, which would lead to an exponential number of pages).

Fava's templates could be used to implement some reduced static version
like bean-bake though, removing the dependency on bean-reports.

>
>Any input appreciated,
>
>
>(Reason I'm asking is: I'm thinking about
>- rewriting the query engine to something more powerful and general, and
>promoting it from experimental and somewhat flaky to the main way of
>getting data out
>- rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that
>basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any
>special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)
>- deleting bean-reports and all of beancount/reports, or replacing most of
>it by SQL queries
>- in the process deleting the Holdings code
>Basically, I think that with a slightly improved query engine I could
>delete a ton of code without removing functionality at all.)
>

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[Daniel Clemente]

> The actual Javascript code of Fava only has 3 dependencies (plus one polyfill to support MS Edge): d3 for charts, codemirror for the editors, and Mousetrap for key bindings. I'm trying to keep this list minimal and I believe all the dependencies we have are very much worth it as they allow us to provide useful and powerful features that wouldn't be possible otherwise.

> That high number is mostly a result of the build tools (rollup, used by most JS libraries) and the lint tools for JS and CSS (eslint and stylelint respectively).

Doing small code changes and building a new version is an important part of how I use the code (at least I did some small changes in beancount), so I'll still consider how simple are the build tools. Python scripts are simple to modify, but the npm ecosystem seems much wilder. I can use Docker as a jail if I don't trust the code, but I'd prefer code that I can trust and understand.

Maybe it's possible to run fava without actually building any JS code? (No linting, no minification, no JS packaging, …)

> Are there other aspects of Fava that you find too complex?

- all tables, which seem to dump accounting information without simplifying it, e.g. mixing realized and unrealized accounts, writing too many currencies, …

- many tables, because they require extensive accounting knowledge or knowledge about beancount's internals (e.g. „holdings by cost currency“). The UI is supposed to help me but it shows me more and more internals

- huge tables that I can't easily scroll

- queries that only show the query name, not the query string

- aggregates in balance tables; they're mixed with the original numbers

- treemaps mix many account levels without differentiating between level 1, level 2, level 3, …

- information not correctly ordered (e.g. list of currencies ordered alphabetically instead of relevance to the user)

- hidden „statistics“ (only find if you scroll down you find that there's more things); very big tables in general

- and many more

> Many of the Fava's core features (like charts, the editor, journal filtering, and toggleable account trees) can't be implemented without Javascript, so it can't really work without JS. Is there a reason apart from the complexity argument above for which you'd want to use it without JS?

Well, I do graphs of my beancount data without JavaScript… I use Python. With matplotlib I can also do interactive graphs (if I ever need it), though I prefer to just generate many .png and then browse through them.

I'd like to see the simple beancount server (bean-web) generating .png graphs and embedding them in the page.

I want the tools to be browsable without JS so that they integrate well in the browser. JS wants to take the control about how to scroll, how to click things, how to zoom, how to change to another page, how to load content, whereas I'm fine with my browser doing all that, and I actually prefer it. For instance, I like my way of moving through links with the keyboard, but some clickable things in fava are not <a>, but something different like <label>. 

And more. JS well used (to bring more exploratory interactivity to graphs and tables) could still be useful.

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[Vivek Gani]

Throwing my two cents in, I'm a newbie at a point where I'm starting to have an import workflow down and starting to approach writing custom reports. I've been using fava more and it was a selling point (along with some other beancount features) for me at first in using it over ledger. I haven't really used bean-web yet, and only recently started playing with bean-query.

> How many people here use bean-report as their main way to generate data from Beancount?

Might be digressing, but I'm confused about the philosophy behind plugins, custom reports, and queries. Is the convention that users use/write plugins such that the standard reports in bean-report provide what most need? Was there ever a idea of a 'reports' directory (akin to 'importers')  convention for additional reports that would then appear under bean-report or fava -- or are additional reports just supposed to be written/executed separately (as seen in some of the scripts in the 'experiments' folder)?

Asking as my intial glance into reports.py (in beancount) and the 'REPORTS' array in application.py (in fava) are initially leading me to think that if one wants to add a report one keeps a personal branch of either project - wondering if there'd be interest in having something like a 'class ConfigReporterMixin' if the output from a report becomes more generic.

-Vivek

(Also, I'm nine days early, but happy tenth anniversary to beancount on the 'initial import' commit!)

[Martin Blais]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 6:36 PM, Vivek Gani <vive...@gmail.com> wrote:

Throwing my two cents in, I'm a newbie at a point where I'm starting to have an import workflow down and starting to approach writing custom reports. I've been using fava more and it was a selling point (along with some other beancount features) for me at first in using it over ledger. I haven't really used bean-web yet, and only recently started playing with bean-query.

> How many people here use bean-report as their main way to generate data from Beancount?

Might be digressing, but I'm confused about the philosophy behind plugins, custom reports, and queries. Is the convention that users use/write plugins such that the standard reports in bean-report provide what most need? Was there ever a idea of a 'reports' directory (akin to 'importers')  convention for additional reports that would then appear under bean-report or fava -- or are additional reports just supposed to be written/executed separately (as seen in some of the scripts in the 'experiments' folder)?

Here's a brief history:

When I first wrote this I wrote these custom reports.

Then I wrote a web client to render all these reports from a single place.

(They can also be invoked from the command-line, but not all output formats are supported, it's not nice in that way.)

Then I wrote an experimental SQL query client, which grew over time.

At this point, we realize that you can do everything with the SQL client, so I'd like to replace all the custom reports by SQL queries (after writing a new version of the SQL query client, lots of ideas were issued from the first version to make a better one) and remove the custom reporting code eventually (and deprecate bean-web in favor of Fava).

Asking as my intial glance into reports.py (in beancount) and the 'REPORTS' array in application.py (in fava) are initially leading me to think that if one wants to add a report one keeps a personal branch of either project - wondering if there'd be interest in having something like a 'class ConfigReporterMixin' if the output from a report becomes more generic.

You will always be able to write custom things on top of the API, but I'd like to eventually delete the current custom reports code that lives in Beancount, if it can be replaced by equivalent queries.

-Vivek

(Also, I'm nine days early, but happy tenth anniversary to beancount on the 'initial import' commit!)

Thank you!

 

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 10:53:42 PM UTC-7, Martin Blais wrote:

How many people here use bean-report as their main way to generate data from Beancount?

How many use bean-web?

Does anybody still care about bean-web now that Fava exists?

Also... is it possible to bean-bake Fava (or some equivalent creation of a static version for sharing)?

Any input appreciated,

(Reason I'm asking is: I'm thinking about

- rewriting the query engine to something more powerful and general, and promoting it from experimental and somewhat flaky to the main way of getting data out

- rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)

- deleting bean-reports and all of beancount/reports, or replacing most of it by SQL queries

- in the process deleting the Holdings code

Basically, I think that with a slightly improved query engine I could delete a ton of code without removing functionality at all.)

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[tin...@gmail.com]

I have a couple use cases for "reports", that I haven't found an easy way to generate yet.

- For my holding, I need to generate tax reports and income and balancesheets at the end of the year. The latter ones are present, but a bit bare (no dates on the page, no formatting for example).
- For a group of friends, I manage the common account. I've set them up as Liabilities, as that's what the account owns to them. But now all balances are inverted, which makes it a bit weird for them. I'd like to just output the Liabilities accounts with balance * -1. (I tried:

SELECT account, sum(position) * -1 WHERE account ~ 'Liabilities:' GROUP BY account;

but that results in "TypeError: descriptor '__mul__' requires a 'decimal.Decimal' object but received a 'Inventory'
". I guess I could export to csv, open in Excel and just add this, but that's cheating :). Ideally I'd add a page to Fava with this "report", but haven't found a way yet.)

How do you all generate your (tax) reports and in what format do you save them?

Regards,


Tino

[Martin Blais]

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 6:10 AM, <tin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a couple use cases for "reports", that I haven't found an easy way to generate yet.

- For my holding, I need to generate tax reports and income and balancesheets at the end of the year. The latter ones are present, but a bit bare (no dates on the page, no formatting for example).

Do you mean a list of trades? Trades (i.e., "reductions and their corresponding augmentations") are available as metadata. I'm not sure if I ever bothered creating a report for them, but they're available from the stream of transactions, it should be easy to write a script to list them out in your favorite format.

 

- For a group of friends, I manage the common account. I've set them up as Liabilities, as that's what the account owns to them. But now all balances are inverted, which makes it a bit weird for them. I'd like to just output the Liabilities accounts with balance * -1. (I tried:

SELECT account, sum(position) * -1 WHERE account ~ 'Liabilities:' GROUP BY account;

but that results in "TypeError: descriptor '__mul__' requires a 'decimal.Decimal' object but received a 'Inventory'
". I guess I could export to csv, open in Excel and just add this, but that's cheating :). Ideally I'd add a page to Fava with this "report", but haven't found a way yet.)

You just need an operator to negate an inventory object. Let me make you one.

In fact, better might be a function which switches the signs based on the account type, e.g. something like this:

  SELECT account, sum(position) * account_sign(account) ..

ACCOUNT_SIGN(account) would take the value -1 for Liabilities, Equity and Income, and +1 for the others.

I can add those later.

 

How do you all generate your (tax) reports and in what format do you save them?

Tax reports? I use TurboTax. I kick off bean-web with a restricted period for that year and eyeball the numbers from the income statement. Most of the actual input is automated from imported 1099-R's.

 

Regards,


Tino

On Sunday, 1 April 2018 07:53:42 UTC+2, Martin Blais wrote:

How many people here use bean-report as their main way to generate data from Beancount?

How many use bean-web?

Does anybody still care about bean-web now that Fava exists?

Also... is it possible to bean-bake Fava (or some equivalent creation of a static version for sharing)?

Any input appreciated,

(Reason I'm asking is: I'm thinking about

- rewriting the query engine to something more powerful and general, and promoting it from experimental and somewhat flaky to the main way of getting data out

- rewriting bean-web to be a dumber, more generic web interface that basically renders SQL queries (using the new query engine) without any special treatment (just tables and tree-tables)

- deleting bean-reports and all of beancount/reports, or replacing most of it by SQL queries

- in the process deleting the Holdings code

Basically, I think that with a slightly improved query engine I could delete a ton of code without removing functionality at all.)

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[Martin Blais]

hg update, I've added a couple of things:

- A POSSIGN() function, which can be used to straighten the sign based on the account associated with an amount. You can use it like this:

  bean-query $L "select account, sum(possign(position, account)) where account ~ 'Liabilities:' group by 1"

- A NEG() function, which can be used to negate the value of an Amount, Position or Inventory.

This works as a temporary fix, but it isn't great. There isn't real arithmetic on all field types. (The SQL shell was developed in a weekend a long time ago and has become a bit of a dumping ground for ideas and has overserved its time. It needs a complete rewrite from scratch, for many reasons. I want to do that eventually, but before then, merge all the pending pull requests and fix some of the more important bugs.) In any case, I hope this helps,

[tin...@gmail.com]

Sweet, thanks!

- For my holding, I need to generate tax reports and income and balancesheets at the end of the year. The latter ones are present, but a bit bare (no dates on the page, no formatting for example).

Do you mean a list of trades? Trades (i.e., "reductions and their corresponding augmentations") are available as metadata. I'm not sure if I ever bothered creating a report for them, but they're available from the stream of transactions, it should be easy to write a script to list them out in your favorite format.

No, I meant the amount of tax I have posted to an account in a certain period. But I saw you also added a QUARTER function, which helps a lot with that!

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[Martin Blais]

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:53 PM, <tin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sweet, thanks!

- For my holding, I need to generate tax reports and income and balancesheets at the end of the year. The latter ones are present, but a bit bare (no dates on the page, no formatting for example).

Do you mean a list of trades? Trades (i.e., "reductions and their corresponding augmentations") are available as metadata. I'm not sure if I ever bothered creating a report for them, but they're available from the stream of transactions, it should be easy to write a script to list them out in your favorite format.

No, I meant the amount of tax I have posted to an account in a certain period. But I saw you also added a QUARTER function, which helps a lot with that!

For that you can just select sum(postings) where date >= ... and date < ...

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