replace mailing group by forum?

[nug get]

Dear community,
As a suggestion from my side, how about replacing this mailing group by a forum?

pros:

- potentially build a structured knowledge base that is helpful

- user-generated how-to-content

- control notifications

- not spamming everyone with your new topic that might be interesting only to few people

cons:

-effort to set it up

- ...?

@Martin, in case you don't want to do the effort, would you allow me to set up the "official beancount forum"? should we discuss this further?

Thanks!
Best,
nugget

[Oon-Ee Ng]

Adding to the cons:-

- one additional venue for Martin in particular (and perhaps others) to check, wasting time

- Additional internet ID/password combination, increasing threat surface

- decreased visibility of any particular topic since forums are by nature segregated

This isn't to vote against the proposal, just putting more context. I believe forums should NOT involve the dev (especially the dev's time), as I've seen how much of a time-suck they can be.

A wiki would have most of the pros you list, btw, without requiring dev time investment.

[Martin Blais]

Some people do the Discord thing. 

I find it too distracting. I don't have the time.

Plus it's hit-or-miss when you show up whether the right people happen to me there or not.

We probably should have some way for people to add / edit a shared KB.

We've been working with Gdocs so far, not just me, but a few others as well.

Would it be an improvement if I enabled the Wiki on the project?

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[kohlt...@gmail.com]

I think a wiki (or any kind of knowledgebase) is the way to go. Since Martin already has great writeups in Google Docs an import should be quite easy plus linking between pages is built in rather than just pointing to another thread to read.

Forums tend to be "sign up" -> "ask question" -> "get answer" -> "vanish forever". Which does not help that much in comparison to this mailing list.

[redst...@gmail.com]

IMHO, here are some of the things we could improve upon for this community, in addition to a few that the OP suggested:

• cut down time spent on answering FAQ from new users, while getting new users up and running quickly
• grow collective knowledge about seemingly niche and/or specialized areas (eg: depreciation, options trading, crypto)
• centralize an index to plugins, importers, reporters, and other code

A wiki might well address these, and is very low-effort to setup and test out. With the sentiment above that this should reduce dev's time spent on answering questions, Martin, you could do as little as simply enabling the github wiki and relying on crowdsourcing everything from organization to content from the community.

Another user brought up Discourse earlier. Great arguments, and he seems to have a lot of experience with it. However, I've personally found Discourse to be distracting and painful, especially for the low/medium level of traffic on this forum.

[Daniele Nicolodi]

Hello,

what there is to be gained in having these instruments you propose to be
blessed by the Beancount project?

Anything that is somehow officially affiliated with the project would
require a whatever minimum level of involvement from the project
contributors, at a minimum level because the reputation of the project,
and by proxy of the contributors, would be related to the content of
these platforms.

Because of the very low overhead, I think the official beancount
communication channel should remain this mailing list.

However, there are an almost infinite number of platforms on which a you
can register a space dedicated to beancount users, without it to be a
officially associated with the beancount project. Judging from the
"pros" that have been cited for switching away from the mailing list to
a forum-like solution, I think that a Stackoverflow site (or whatever
they are called) could be an interesting addition to the mailing list.

I may be missing the point, but, while I see alternatives to this
mailing list proposed to make the life of the proponents simpler, I
don't see anyone stepping up to actually produce the overwhelming
quantity of content that alternative solutions would help navigate. The
existing documentation, as any other human artifact, can be improved,
extended, updated, and reorganized to make it more accessible. However,
I don't think that having it split over multiple platforms and locations
would improve it. I would be glad to review any content produced in
(almost) any platform and to work to include it in the official
documentation. I would like to encourage anyone that wants to share
something with the other users to write it up somewhere (even as a
message to the mailing list) so that it can be collaboratively reviewed
and added to the documentation, in a new section if necessary.

Cheers,
Dan

On 01/02/2021 11:01, redst...@gmail.com wrote:
> IMHO, here are some of the things we could improve upon for this
> community, in addition to a few that the OP suggested:
>

> * cut down time spent on answering FAQ from new users, while getting

> new users up and running quickly

> * grow collective knowledge about seemingly niche and/or specialized

> areas (eg: depreciation, options trading, crypto)

> * centralize an index to plugins, importers, reporters, and other code

>
> A wiki might well address these, and is very low-effort to setup and
> test out. With the sentiment above that this should reduce dev's time
> spent on answering questions, Martin, you could do as little as simply
> enabling the github wiki and relying on crowdsourcing everything from
> organization to content from the community.
>
> Another user brought up

> <https://groups.google.com/g/beancount/c/jOqHyWwdTQk> Discourse earlier.

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/CAGQ70et_RD%2BsFHDnh4kkvHQLzPmuHGVHwAzYF2qh1vOhm5MsNg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Beancount" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to beancount+...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:beancount+...@googlegroups.com>.

> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/29fd01db-5727-4063-ac88-51d8a6a3bcefn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/29fd01db-5727-4063-ac88-51d8a6a3bcefn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Kirill Goncharov]

I suggest switching to beancount/docs as a primary documentation source. Everyone will be able to contribute to it, and no additional services will be needed. Also, sooner or later gdoc conversion pipeline will stop working so it's something to consider in any case.

A knowledge base can't be a substitute for the mailing list / forum though, it's a very different medium.

[Martin Blais]

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 6:54 AM Kirill Goncharov <kdgon...@gmail.com> wrote:

I suggest switching to beancount/docs as a primary documentation source. Everyone will be able to contribute to it, and no additional services will be needed. Also, sooner or later gdoc conversion pipeline will stop working so it's something to consider in any case.

I hope it continues working for a VLT! :-)

For the new version, I have in mind a new, much better API documentation, with a dedicated set of public objects all rooted at the same package for the core objects.

i.e. like numpy, but with "bn" instead of "np":

import beancount as bn

bn.load(...)

inv = bn.Inventory()

bn.Transaction(...  bn.Posting(...))

etc.

With all the objects neatly documented so that it's easier for people to work off the API and build things.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/beancount/e0379f15-642a-424f-81df-7dd87fa314a0n%40googlegroups.com.

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 2:38 AM nug get <xxxx> wrote:

> As a suggestion from my side, how about replacing this mailing group by a forum?

Hi all;

ObBeancount: I'm new here,  I am a ledger convert. I gave up when I realised that ledger was letting me shoot off my foot without warning me. I love the beancount simplicity and stronger checking.

 I'll cast my vote inspite of limited tenure; I love that I can see things in google groups, search and look at posts going back in time with a consistent interface. I really do NOT like forums. This might have something to do with being online since the 70s, but there is something great about the simplicity of a mailing list. A mailing list with google powered searching is also extremely nice. I routinely search the list for suggestions or tips on specific topics. I would welcome a WIKI to support / extend the mailing list, but my experience is such that a basic mailing list is really useful.

(And almost all Forum software is kludgy and slightly different from all other  forum software; which increases friction to post. I can do everything I need to with a mailing list, integrated into my other digital existences.)

Now back to setting up my chart of accounts for my company, fun fun. 

Alan