IMPROVEMENT IN PENSION SCHEME -AIBEA

[mohan p]

ALL INDIA BANK EMPLOYEES' ASSOCIATION

Central Office: "PRABHAT NIVAS" Regn. No.2037 Singapore Plaza, 164, Linghi Chetty Street, Chennai-600001

Phone: 2535 1522

Web: www.aibea.in

email~chv....@gmail.com & aib...@gmail.com M 98400 89920

 

CIRCULAR LETTER No. 29/17/2023/42

31-10-2023

To

• All Office Bearers,

• State Federations / All India Bankwise Organisations,

 

Dear Comrades,

Improvement in Pension Scheme

 

We have been informing our units about the various improvements made in the Pension Scheme so far. With great efforts, one more option was achieved in 2010 during the 9th BP Settlement which benefitted more than 3 lac retirees/ employees/ officers to join the pension scheme.

In the 11th BP Settlement in 2020, we could achieve improvement in Family Pension which benefitted nearly 1 lac family pensioners. In February, 2023 this year, we could achieve a minimum ex-gratia pension of Rs.10,000 for all pre-1986 retirees/surviving spouse.

In July, 2023, we could achieve 100% DA for pre- Nov. 2002 pensioners which has benefitted more than 180,000 pensioners. Last week, during the discussions IBA has expressed its inclination to extend an option for resigned employees to join the pension scheme. We are also vigorously pursuing the issue of updation of pension.

During the 11th BP negotiations we had raised the issue of some improvements in pension scheme on the lines of improvements made in Central Govt. employees pension scheme like reduction in eligibility years to 20 years for full pension, pension to be paid on average of last 10 months' Pay or last drawn Pay, whichever is beneficial to the employee, upgrading all pension to 8088 points, etc.

You may send your specific suggestions for any improvement in pension scheme so that the same may be suitably taken up with IBA.

With Greetings,

Yours Comradely,

C.H. VENKATACHALAM

GENERAL SECRETARY

[Parvatam Veera Bhadra Swamy]

Hi 

Whether merging of 8088 points in improving pension is beneficial or pension updation as per RBI formula is beneficial. 

Can any knowledgeable member can comment on this matter please. 

Pvbswamy 

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[Pradeep Kumar Gupta]

What is the need to seek suggestions from the retirees/ pensioners at this juncture as the pension updation seems to be on the final stage. We retirees demands pension updation on RBI pattern nothing less than this. UFBU leadership is requested to get it clinched on RBI line retrospectively for all retiress . 

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[Sarangapani Rao]

Dear friends, 

In a previous video msg . it seemed CHV was bent upon avoiding RBI formula & suggesting his own formula of 4.56 multiplication factor. 

Now that too has been allowed to vanish into thin air  ! 

Now the very phrase "Updation Of Pension " existing in the agreement is totally replaced by 

" Improvement in pension "  & he seeks suggestions from pensioners  ! 

If the pensioners suggest 

Pension Updation as per RBI formula, incorporated in the agreement, will he achieve  it  ? 

We have been cheated for decades & particularly in respect of pre 2002 retirees, further deprived of 100% DA, with tapering formula , 

now sanctioned  . Agaist this particular background, 

learned pensioners in the group may suggest to CHV what seems to them just & reasonable. 

Sarangapani 

Indian Bank, vrs 2000.

--

[Nemai ROY CHOWDHRY]

20 years service for full pension

--

[suresh Salhotra]

It should be based on RBI pension scheme

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, 16:22 mohan p, <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

For the past few weeks AIBEA has stopped talking about pension updation.  

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[subrata kumar sil]

Improvement of Pension to Bank Retiees should be on the line of RBI pension- S.K.Sil

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Merger of DA at a certain level with the basic pension is an essential part of the process of updation of pension. 

K N Ramani

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Pre 2002 pensioners who availed SVRS  are being given raw deal by UFBU.

First 5 year benefit rejected  then 50% Basic pension arrears and commutation rejected and second pension option for CRS retirees rejected and 100% DA also rejected for pre 2002 retirees, It is important to note that all these violations were done with consent of UFBU only.

Thanks to Sri. C.N.Prasad, Sri Palani & others pensioners got these benefits through courts except 100% DA.  UFBU did not negotiate 100% DA  while the case was pending in SC or after.

SBI pensioners are fighting for Updation, 100% DA restoratAccordinglyion of  since 2013 and 2016 and due to their deft handling of case DHC has directed DFS to appoint a new committee and consider the demands.

Accordingly DHS has appointed a committee with clear instructions to examine 100% DA and Updation in every settlement. As soon as the Committee concluded its meeting 100% DA was approved by DHS.

UFBU had still opportunity to negotiate 100% DA with some back date. But they sim;y signed minutes and claim they have negotiated issue.

Now instead of hard bargaining with iBA for Updation as per RBI formula  now a new drama has started IMPROVEMENT IN PENSION SCHEME.

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[viswanathan visu]

the pension updation should be as per RBI FORMULA. after finalisation of pension updation in the RBI FORMULA ARREARES OF PENSION should be given FROM 01-01-2020 ATLEAST. this is my humble suggestion on behalf of all the pensioners.

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[mohan p]

Dear Veera Bhadra Swamy,

Merging CPI of 8088 points is not Updation of Pension.( In every settlement certain portion of CPI is merged with Basic Pay of employees from 600 points to 6352 points with a single DA rate.)

Pension Updation: In short a person retired under 6th or 7th BPS/JN period to be brought to level of 11th or 12th BPS/JN with notional increase in Basic Pension and a uniform lesser DR rate.

RBI pensioners have already got the benefit.If RBI  formula cannot be applied suitable formula to be arrived in case of bank pensioners.

Merger of DR at 8088 points may not give any benefit to pensioners.

Updation of Pension is our demand. Regards,

Mohan.P

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

The DFS appointed committee report is being submitted to the DHC on 7th. Updation in every settlement is one of the agenda of the committee.  Further Late MC Singhla case regarding updation is also scheduled for hearing on 21St.  The said committee has also obtained views of IBA.

While it is so what message AIBEA is giving by issuing such circulars.

There are 9 unions in UFBU. Why AIBEA only taking decisions.

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[Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran]

I feel that merger of 8088 points with basic pension will increase the basic pension. When we apply present DA rate, it will give substantial increase. This may be specifically for pre2002 retirees. One can work on the above and see the difference.

G Ramachandran

CB-SVRS.

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Employees are not allowed to  work in the same place  continuously for more than 3 years except in unavoidable circumstances,. for the reason that some can manipulate things. Same applies to office bearers of trade Unions. Over the years they become dictators and  take unilateral decisions and others are afraid to question it.

[Satyanarayana Rao]

Merger of 8088 points to all basic pensions will bring all groups pensioners retired under deferment bipartite settlements including the future retirees of 12 th bps in to one single group and it will definitely give substantial benefits to 6 th and 7 th bipartite settlements retirees and all shall be on par with 12th bipartite settlements pensioners. 

This will remove all the disparties among pensioners and one bank one pension theory like OROP as ADVOCATED  by the finance minister will be achieved.

We have to remember that the government has appointed a committee to submit a  report  on pension reform to Delhi high court and the details are not available. 

There fore it is unpredictable to reason in which from the pension revision/ updation takes place. 

The debate has to continue till a crystal clear solution is finalized by the stakeholders. 

Nobody knows when and how the 3 decades grievance of pensioners will be resolved?

This is a million dollars question. No expert can explain and predict the CHV mind. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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[kds nair]

Since we are not members of unions,better we leave them from our discussions.It is appreciable if we approach them with our suggestions to improve their handling of our issues because our leaders are good for nothing.

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Merging of DA with Basic is part of the Updation process.. Bifurcating it and implementing piecemeal implementation of updation is a great disadvantage to Pre 2002 retirees. If merging of DA@8880 points is done now the remaining process of Updation will be treated as residual issue and will be taken up in 13th BPS. Hon.FM did not intend this while appointing the committee.

I think we have to wait for the committee report which will be submitted to the court on 7th Nov.

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

When merged how can one apply present DA rate?. DA will decrease. Total remains same

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[mohan p]

Dear Friends,

Though I have given the details in illustration on the subject,let me  clarify few points,which I have not explained,earlier.

Some of us may have a view that while Basic Pension is increased, due to this merger process ,why can't apply the current DR there on the new notional basic pension.

Let us examine, on what would be future DR after merger of CPI 8088 points with Basic Pension? 

We need not have any doubt on future Dearness Allowance, after merger of CPI at 8088 points to pensioners this time.While, Basic Pension goes up  naturally DR become reduced.

Why? Once certain portion of DR is merged with current basic pension, that specific DR amount,  become part of BP.

So there may not be a situation where DR is paid again  on old DR merged,  and hence reduction in current DR is inevitable.

So what will happen?.Let me explain the details.

Current average CPI till Jan'24 is 8881.

Less the proposed  merged CPI of

8088

Remaining CPI would be at 793 points.

Slab will be 793/4 =198

Here again rate per slab may reduce from current 0.07,due to change in merger points from existing CPI. 6352 points.As a result it comes to 0.05 as follows:

ie: 6352/8088*0.07=0.054

So future DR rate after merger will be:

198*0.05=9.90%

In short in this process  Basic Pension  goes up substantially ,where as  DR comes down.

Eg. On merger of CPI as above,Basic Pension of a 7th BPS pensioner at ₹7880/ notionally goes up to ₹38158/. and he is entitled for DR rate at 9.90% as per process followed  in calculation.Current total pension of ₹41902 become ₹41935 with only a marginal increase of ₹33/

(We can't imagine ,on applying  current DR of 431.76% to above notional BP,of ₹41935/ which may/cannot happen)

I may add here once again ,   that merger of CPI points with BP is not Updation of Pension.Only when  some load factor is added, as per a suitable formula that become a reality.Let this process pave way for Updation of Pension.

Meanwhile,we can also watch the developments on Committees Report to be submitted to Delhi High Court in coming day.

 

 

 

 

 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

After the merger DA rate  will be 0,03%.

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

12th BPS will be effective from  1.11.2022.  So  new DA rate will  come  into effect from that date.

[Sridhar Mandyam]

Merger at higher point is beneficial only to working staff as their other allowances are based on their basic salary

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023, 11:07 Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran <chandra...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Shastri Ramasubramanyam]

Dear Shri Mohan 

With this calculation if implemented the so called  100 percent DA neutralization loses its very relevance. 

Only advantage in the long run would be, even for a small  DA increase in future the pay out would be substantial. 

Thanks 

Ramasubramanyam Shastri 

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[Ramachandran Bella]

Very clear Mohanji.  Thank a lot 

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[Ramachandran Bella]

could you please detail for 6th Bps sir, keeping the your above formula? Does it suit the same?

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 7:04 PM mohan p <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Shastri Ramasubramanyam]

Thanks a lot.  Wonderful presentation. 

Regards

Ramasubramanyam Shastri 

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023, 7:04 p.m. mohan p <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[VASUDEVAN CHENNAI]

A loud thinking for your consideration.

Any updatation needs to be linked with every wage revision / BPS  and should not be one time affair. Every time you need not beg / pray.

50% of the increase in percentage of load factor agreed for working staff shall be automatically apply to pensioners also.

For example, IBA offered 15% increase to working staff. In case it is agreed to 7.5% to apply to pensioners.

Vasudevan V

CBREA

Pls think it over

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Both SBI Pensioners and PSU Bank pensioners were waiting for the outcome of the  Delhi High Court case scheduled for hearing on 07.11.23/ In between  AIBEA cir has created confusion among pensioners.

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 7:04 PM mohan p <moha...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Parvatam Veera Bhadra Swamy]

Hi Mohan sir,

All the time we are presuming that pension updation shall be calculated as per RBI formula which has been already accepted by DFS and implemented in RBI and arrears were also drawn by retirees from March 2019 as I remember. 

Now very recently AIBEA supremo came out with a formula of merger 8881 points all of a sudden just before high court hearing on 7th November 2023.

Can anybody guess what would be the reason behind this?

Pvbswamy 

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Sri Mohan ji, 

This is in continuation of my mail sent a short while ago. Presently, LIC employees are getting DA neutralisation @0.08% per slab i.e., 0.01% more than bank staff. Hence, there is a likelihood of UFBU bargaining and getting a neutralisation equal to that of LIC employees. In such case, 12.95% may improve further. 

K N Ramani

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Sri. Mohan ji, 

I think the present index level is 9124 (IBA communication attached) and not as mentioned by you. So, the number of slabs over and above 8088 would be 259 and not 198. Consequently, the new initial rate of DA would also become 12.95% from 9.90%.

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[kushal mukhoti]

Mr Mandyam,

Not only the other allowances, the superannuation benefits also go up considerably for the existing employees by merging DA with basic pay. Yes, for the pensioners there are no or negligible benefit by merely merging DR with basic pension without adding the load percentage as is received by the existing employees in each BPS. 

Kushal Mukhoti.

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[Narayanan Venkateshwaran]

DA merger is different issue altogether from updation.DA merger for pensioners effectively facilitates easy administration of da and periodical changes thereon

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Sri. Somashekar ji, 

The new rate of DA per slab after merger of DA at 8088 points is 0.05 as calculated by Shri. Mohan. As mentioned by him, the formula followed since 5th BPS for arriving at the new rate is:

Presently merged points/Proposed merger points x present DA rate. 

This is easily verifiable in respect of all previous DA mergers from the table furnished by Shri. Mohan. 

Please correct me if I am wrong and kindly inform how the figure of 0.03 was arrived at by you. 

So, in the present instance, the new rate would be 6352/8088 x 0.07 = 0.054.

In the event of 0.08 being taken as present rate notionally (as it is the present rate for LIC employees) the new rate of DA would be 0.06.

K N Ramani

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[Gajanan Chaudhari]

Mr Ramani K. sir,

The latest rise of 61 slabs is not for pensioners. We will get Da rise in February. Hence what P Mohan Sir had stated is correct. I think You will agree.

[T.R.Sitaraman]

Dear Mohanji,

i understand that merger of CPI 8088 points with basic pension will not give any increase, and it wlill be same.

I also feel that if the CPI increases it will have only a negative effect.

can you please make a comparison of total pension with CPI index of 10000 points.

you may please make 3 comparisn charts.

1) at present da rate with present CPI-8881.

2) CPI 8881 - pension amount DR after merger of CPI 8088 points with Basic Pension.

3) At present da rate with CPI 10000

4) CPI 10000- pension amount after merger of CPI 8088 points with basic pension.

i am sure with rise in CPI our total pension will reduce, even though at present ( in case 1 & 2) the total pension may be same .

regards,

sitaraman

 

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[mohan p]

Dear Mr Ramachandran,

I have provided details already on impact of merger of CPI points to our Basic Pension, pertaining to 5th BPS to 11th BPS pensioners, showing exact increase/decrease in each case with with illustration on Basic Pension under all the above segments.See the chart,which include,  6th BPS pensioner too.

Probably you might not have seen the chart posted in my earlier mail

Once again I am attaching the same,for your ready reference

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear Somasekarji,

 

I have explained the process of arriving future DR percentage,as followed under BPS system hither to,in my earlier mail.

As per calculation future DR would be at 9.90% after the merger of CPI 8088 points. ( may not be at 0.03)

For your reference same is furnished here under once again.

Current merged CPI under 11th BPS/8th JN is 6352.

Under 12th BPS merger point is 8088.

Current average CPI till Jan'24 is 8881.

Less the proposed  merged CPI of

8088

Remaining CPI would be at 793 points.

Slab will be 793/4 =198

Here again rate per slab may reduce from current 0.07,due to change in merger points from existing CPI. 6352 points.As a result it comes to 0.05 as follows:

ie: 6352/8088*0.07=0.054

So future DR rate after merger will be:

198*0.05=9.90%

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear Mr Veerabhadra Swamy,

Pension updation is our long pending demand.COD submitted by UFBU under each BPS/JN incorporate the same once in every five years, may be as ritual.

So far nothing materialised.May have different reasons.Let it be there.

Mean while you might have seen, resolution of enhancement of Family Pension and 100%DR neutralisation to pre 2002 pensioners etc benefitting few lakhs pensioners & family.

From Hon.FM to UFBU all are involved in the process.

So we need not worry much, Pension Updation too may happen.Once bringing all pensioners under single rate of DR in fact same is paved for the above.

Let us watch the developments.

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear Mr Vadudevan,

What you  have said is correct.

That is what every pensioner desire or demand.

Same is happening in the case of Central & State Govt retirees too.

Retirees or Retirees Apex Assns have no role in negotiations on retirees matters.

Serving employees unions are negotiating with IBA.Let them first take sincere efforts to get our long pending issue of Updation is resolved at least now.

In RBI too they have first implemented updation of pension up to 2012 and now for 2017 pensioners too.

Let us hope for best.

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear Mr.Ramani,

 Current CPI figure with applicable DA to serving employees for next quarter  have been posted by me ,as usual, here under this forum , on 31 st Oct ’23,itself when GOI released AICPIN-IW,for Sept.

It seems that  you have not  gone through the circular letter  issued by GS,of AIBEA  vide. 29/17/2023/42,dt 30.10.23.( which too I have posted here earlier)

For your reference:It says on issues raised with IBA ie: ‘upgrading all pension to 8088 points,’ Based on which, I have posted the message,with  an illustration on detailed calculation on impact of merger of 8088 CPI points to pensioners retired under 5^th to 11^th BPS/JN.period.

In every BPS/JN this process is carried out  to employees but not extended to pensioners so far.This CPI figure is taken as in Nov 2021.

So future rate shown,in illustration is based on pensioners CPI at 8881 applicable as of now,  for  current half year at at 9.90%.

Once it is implemented one single DR rate may be applicable to all pensioners too,irrespective of their date of retirement.

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[nook raju]

If a pensioner has basic pay of Ra.s8000 and DA merged at 8088 increase in new pension would be hardly Rs. 400 per month many calculations show it, I may be wrong but a good blow to retires again-Policy is hit the weakest person one whi can not resist. 

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Gajanan Chaudhri Sir, 

I agree that the recent increase of 61 slabs given to those in service is not applicable to pensioners and we will only get it in February 2024 with some more slabs. As nothing is known yet about merger of DA with Basic pension, what has been done by Shri. Mohan is only a notional projection and so,  for that I have taken the present level of CPI. That's all. My point is no pensioner will suffer a reduction in total pension if and when the merger takes place. For pensioners, no DA merger has happened so far. 

If and when it happens, it may coincide with the half yearly revision to avoid any anomaly with regard to the index level to be applied. Hope, I stand clarified. 

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[R Balaji]

Upto 8th bipartite difference is less than 40 Rs and from 9th bipartite it is negative

Is this updation?

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[RANGARAJAN M R]

It is observed that a brain storming discussion is taking place. The general understanding is that (a+b)² = a²+b²+2ab. etc. Ultimately this exercise of bringing all pensioners to common index is to ensure that they all reach the same place from where they started and prove that Earth is Round. After this exercise the demand for pension updation may have to make a fresh beginning all over again. The updation may happen in one month or one year or one decade or may not happen at all due to some other new complication. We are not loosing hopes but expecting it to happen some day like 100% D.A neutralisation which happened after decades of pre 2002 retirement. We continue to live on hopes year after year.

M.R.RANGARAJAN

MYSORE 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Pre 2002 retirees have been denied sme benefits since the last 20 years. We have been waiting for updation for the last 20 years. If they  intend to merge DA@8088 points they could have done that on 28th July itself, what was the need for 100% DA.

Whatever the AIBEA suggests is not for present retirees but  for those who retire at a later date after 12th BPS.  He is the most mysterious leader. Wherever we are expecting something good will happen he will give shock treatment to pensioners.

Our only hope is Hon.FM.

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[Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran]

Dear Shri.Mohan,

Yes I saw your mail.

I made a mistake in calculating the latest DA rate, after merger of 8088 points. But your calculation is correct and am convinced that merger will not alone improve the pension, but sometimes may result in reduction of the same.

Thanks for your clarification and also for taking pains to write to me.

G Ramachandran

CB -SVRS.

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[Gopalakrishnan Ramachandran]

Dear Shri Mohan,

While I appreciate your calculation, in the last stage the present DA should be 198*0.054, instead of 198*0.05. The last decimal is significant. 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

G Ramachandran

CB-SVRS 

[SUMAN KUMAR Suman]

GOOD, 

BUT  WHY  NOT   AS  PER   CENTRAL  GOVT

RULES   UPDATON  AND DA RATES

WHENEVER  INCREASE  DA   WHY  NOT  PENSIONERS   AS   PER  CENTRAL  GOVT  EMPLOYEES

IF  NOT     S O,WHY   PRESENT  WORKING   EMPLOYEES   SIMILARLY   TO    PENSIONERS

THINK 

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--

suman.

[Ramachandran Bella]

Thank you Mohanji.  I got it .

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Yes you are right.  But what I mentioned is DA rate perslab  from 01.11.22..However it is 0.054 as calculated by you.

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[Ramachandran Bella]

Thank you Nohanji. I got it. 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Dear Bank Pensioners

I cannot understand why we are getting disturbed by  AIBEAs Circular.  All the improvements except merger of DA will take place from a future date even if it's agreed by IBA. None of the present retirees are benefited by this. Further no website link or email link is provided to submit suggestions,

Further AIBEA did not seek suggestions when

1. 100% DA  agreement was signed denying benefit pre 2002 pensioners.

2.  2005 agreement denying commutation and arrears from DOR

3. Medical scheme agreement was signed asking retirees to bear 100% DA.

4. Agreeing  that special allowance does not attract pension benefits,

5.  agreeing for 100% DA from future date on 28th July.

Why now asking for suggestions?

Those who are thinking that merger of DA will give substantial increase   must  refer to previous UFBU cir wherein leaders  have  stated that the merger of DA costs are minimal.

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Shri Mohan ji, 

All that I want to stress is that if and when DR merger with Basic Pension happens for pensioners, it would be done in such a way that the total pension of any pensioner in any BPS group is NOT DECREASED after such merger. (As per your chart, those belonging to 9th, 10th and 11th BPS would be getting a reduced total after the DR merger atleast for a few months initially, till the DR rises in half yearly revision). 

Hope you will agree with me. 

Thanks and regards

K N Ramani

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[kushal mukhoti]

Mr Mohan P

I have reproduced your chart in which I have added a few more extra rows for clarity. I am attaching the original Excel file and a screenshot of the same. Here, a pensioner can get an idea about how much he/she is going to benefit from the merger by entering his/her basic pension amount in the respective yellow cell. 

Thanks and regards. 

Kushal Mukhoti. 

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[Sanjay J]

This is attracious.

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[mohan lal Aggarwal]

Why rate of DA is taken @ 0.5 % instead of 0.6 % or at least 0.54% causing loss to the pensioners, or at least some upward changes are made in their basic pension at parity with the employees for ensuring that there in no decrease in pension at any stage due to the so called  improvement?

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[MOHANDAS RAO]

Sir,

The calculator may require a little repair. I tried to feed my basic pension. The result is attached as a screenshot.

K. MOHANDAS RAO

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[Sarangapani Rao]

With this cunning, malicious scheme will they evade Updation, driving the retirees to struggle with the court  for another decade, by which time a lion's share of pathetic, old pensioners would be extinct & the new prospective pensioners need not face such problems as their pays are already periodically revised. Let us hope for the best.

Sarangapani 

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[S L GULATI-ADV:-]

Dear friends

We have already secured revision in  family pension, ex-gratitude to pre 1986 retirees and recently 100% DA.

Congratulations to everybody.

Further  I understand that updation of pension is on cards and shall happen simultaneously with the 12th BPS and arrears may also come wef 01.11.2022. Some of the friends are putting the impression on this blog that only index of 8088 shall be taken care of to revise the pension. On what basis  they say. Yes, updation with the index of 8088 shall not be called a revision, if load factor is not applied or added, which will certainly happen with appropriate load factor apart from merging the CPI index of 8088 with the present basic pension. Friends should not unnecessarily become hyper on this blog and write down anything which comes to his or their mind. They unnecessarily and unwittingly, put some of our senior friends in tension. We have waited for 24 long years and so wait for 1-2 months, to see the outcome. Sh. P mohan, Jmskara or Mr. Prasad from SBI(SBM) can better explain the factors. So friends go positive and trust the Hon'ble FM, who has been instrumental is giving the ĺong avaited benefits and the revision with suitable factor shall positively happen in short to time.

Have a good day.

Regards 

S L GULATI ADVOCATE 

Ex- PNB SVRS 2000

90348 89525 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2023, 10:02
Subject: Re: bankpensioner IMPROVEMENT IN PENSION SCHEME -AIBEA

To: <bankpe...@googlegroups.com>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAM%3DeiW2Xmn9LBW20uFM1iA1CjH8ogG17n%3DaQ5T%3DHf7G4a70O8A%40mail.gmail.com.

[mohan p]

Dear Ramachandranji,

Thank you for your reply.

Let me add:

As we know, the exercise of merger of DA under every BPS settlement from 5th to 11th was taking place from CPI 600 points to 6352 points.

Now,pensioners retired under various  settlement period are drawing different pension, though, they may have retired with same years of service in same scale too.

I have tried to compare, the existing position through my illustration with details ,for the information of all.

Note from messages,that  the same has helped to understand , intricacies of merger process, to members.

So far no uniform merger has taken place for pensioners.Now 100% DR issue has been resolved since 1st oct'23.So once merger of CPI 8088 is extended to all pensioners in uniform,under 12th BPS (as per.Cir.of GS,AIBEA) we all may come under single platform with single rate of DR,in future, which may pave way  for Updation of Pension.

(The proposed merger of CPI 8088 is not updation of pension,at least few of us view.)

Hope, Committees report, to be submitted to Delhi High Court, too may throw light, in this direction.

Let it happen.

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear Mohandas Raoji,

Yes.You are right.I have not included in illustration,though provided a column for Ex gratia.Since it may vary if apply one's own  actual B.pension.(from ₹450 or₹800 depending upon his/her BP)

It is a fact that  if  include the Ex gratia depending upon basic pension.5th 6th and 7th pensioners too may have negative pension amount.

Let us hope that if a uniform merger of CPI 8088 takes place with single future DR rate, it may pave way for Updation of Pension .

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear Mr.Ramani,

You are right.By merger of certain portion of CPI to his/her basic pension no pensioner should loose.

But while we come to real situation on proposed merger of CPI 8088 points with basic pension same may happen unless further ex-gratia is given.

I have prepared the illustration to just to make clear the impact of proposed merger of CPI points,if it extended to pensioners too.

I have not included the eligible Ex gratia now granted to 5th  6th &7th BPS pensioners since it may vary depending upon each one's Basic Pension.Once we include the same also you may note that they too draw negative amount! Hope banks may add further Ex gratia to such cases if it is implemented.

Future DR may certainly vary depending upon increase/decrease CPI points incoming months and only good thing is pensioners notional basic pension may go up and may come under one platform with a uniform single rate.

If it pave way for updation of pension,let us hope for best.

Regards

Mohan.P

 

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[mohan p]

Dear Mr Kushal Mukhoti,

Thank you for making the chart in editable  format so that each pensioner  can have an idea on what would be his/her pension on merger of CPI 8088 points if implemented.

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Dear  Mr.Mohanlal Agarwal,

First of  all the rate you have mentioned is wrong.Discussed rate is 0.05% and not 0.5%

Why 0.05% per slab and why can't it be 6% may 

be a question among few of us.?

Yes pensioners /employees may be happy if rate goes up.But same has some basic principles.

Let  me explain:

 There is a system prevailing at present  at industry level on how DA to be calculated and what rate per slab is to be fixed.For which primarily an understanding between  IBA and Unions has to be reached and  BPS/JN  has to be signed.GS of AIBEA spelt out on understanding on merger of CPI 8088 points under 12^th BPS.

Clause No.7 of 11BPS says on rate per slab at 0.07%.Under 12 th BPS too same process may be continued.Regulation 37 under BEPR,1995 provide for payment of DR to pensioners  as stipulated.

In last BPS, CPI 6352 points was merged with Basic Pay of employees.Those who retired under 11^th BPS may have basic pension accordingly.

So when CPI 8088 points to be merged under 12 th BPS/JN the formula prevailing is:

6352/8088*0.07=0.054.

Coming to your point on increasing, IBA reiterate in every DA circular that “While arriving at dearness allowance payable, decimals from third please be ignored”

In that way 0.054 may be taken as 0.05 per slab under current settlement.If third digit is 5 or more there is a possibility.Here it is not so.Let them finalise.

( Under 10th BPS rate was taken as 0.10 (0.095) and under 11th BPS it was 0.07(0.069)

Regards,

Mohan.P

 

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[Sumati M]

Sir

My basic pen ud 4485 ...7th bipartite

Took special vrs in 2001 March

As per the xl sheet, if I feed my BP

My revised pension gets lesser after DA merger.

Will 450 ex gratia be added to revised pension every month to set off this loss?

Please do clarify  ?

Sunati M

On Mon, 6 Nov 2023, 10:03 kushal mukhoti, <kush...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[OM PRAKASH SHARMA]

Mohan Sir has explained the clear cut status of merger of 8088 points and I agree that there will be no benefits at all in the pension, rather for BPS 10 th 11 th, the pension may get reduced marginally.

We want up-dation as per RBI formula only. Efforts are being made by AIBEA to create confusion. When our pension policy is similar to RBI, why is AIBEA seeking the suggestions at this stage.In case of RBI, no suggestions were received and DFS approved the same. The cost of up-dation is just marginal and it may not cross Rs. 5000 crores in any case. All the computations have already been submitted to DFS and IBA but still AIBEA is trying to create confusion. We want up-dation as per RBI formula only. O.P. SHARMA 

[kushal mukhoti]

Mr Rao,

The errors might be due to Excel version incompatibility. I think the 'IFS' function (which I have applied while calculating Ex-gratia ) is not  available in your version of MS Excel. Please check it out and let me know.

Thanks and regards.

KM. 

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[kandala ashok]

Sirs,

Or serving emploees, merger of DA would be beneficial as many perqs and allowances linked to basic will substantially increase immediately or in due course.

But in case of pensioners nothing of the sort is available.

Regards

Ashok

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[kushal mukhoti]

Dear Mr Rao,

 I don't know why the file is not working properly on your computer. However, I am sending a slightly modified file with an option to add a load factor on the notional basic pension with a view to arriving at a new formula to update/improve our basic pension. Sample load factors for different BPS have been entered to see their effect on the gross pension. 

Thanks and regards.

KM

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[Ramani Konnayar]

Dear Mr. Mohan, 

Thanks for your detailed reply. The scenario projected by you will become a reality, only if the DA merger is implemented ahead of February 2024. In that month, the rate of DA will rise (as things stand now) substantially and no pensioner may suffer any loss due to such merger. Further, as Mr. G. Ramachandran says, in view of the basic becoming very large, IBA may even consider including the 3rd decimal in the percentage rate of DA. 

With regards, 

K N Ramani

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[Sanjay J]

The ex-gratia amount will be wiped out after the merger. This is the net effect.

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[kushal mukhoti]

Dear Mr Rao,

  The previous file had an error in the formula for exgratia for 5th and 6th BPS pensioners.  I am sending a slightly modified file with an option to add a load factor on the notional basic pension with a view to arriving at a new formula to update/improve our basic pension. Sample load factors for different BPS have been entered to see their effect on the gross pension. 

Thanks and regards.

KM

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Irrespective of merger of DA theory floated by AIBEA the petitioners of DHC case are working hard to claim 100% DA and Pension Updation benefits with retrospective effect.

Please watch the youtube message of  Sri. Umesh Sharma one of the petitioners in Delhi High Court.

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[MOHANDAS RAO]

For the basic pension of Rs.4,485/- the DA from October 2023 with Rs.450/- exgratia is Rs.19,364.43. The DA for all the bank pensioners can be easily calculated using the calculator: 

https://bankonviju.in/apps/dr-calculator?fbclid=IwAR1WCnyFVmZ5ZVKDqt9R-ouoF89XrUQOTuBQlYsxhWgruvuQ9UixYXiThPA

K. MOHANDAS RAO

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[kushal mukhoti]

Mr Mohan P

I am sorry that due to inadvertence an error had crept in while entering the formula for the exgratia calculation for 5th and 6th BPS pensioners. I attached herewith a modified version of the file with due correction. I have also added a separate sheet where there is a provision to add load factors if required. 

Thanks and regards.

Kushal Mukhoti. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bankpensioner/CAMCbyDR_QDVfjuw%3DbKnNDiqftff4FPwW7AYNEiOAyXMbGqB4gw%40mail.gmail.com.

[mohan p]

Dear Mr Kushal Mukhoti,

Unions/IBA has not spelt out any formula for updation of pension till date.

You might be aware of the fact that for RBI pensioners only a uniform load factor of 10% was given while updation pension done in 2019.

You have found modified the chart with 

45% to 15%.It may not happen sir.

Even unions are against on granting RBI formula to bank pensioners.

It is my personal   view that, without any official communication from IBA/UFBU on updation of pension with an agreed load factor, projecting our own load factor and sharing the same may create only confusion among pensioners.

While appreciate your effort,  let us wait for such exercises till UFBU-IBA agree on Updation of Pension.

Regards

Mohan.P

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[mohan p]

Madam,

Illustration provided by me on effect of proposed merger of CPI 8088, is only to give an understanding to 5th to 11th BPS pensioners, on the same.

You are right, that if the proposed merger takes place you may have decrease in pension compared to current.

Impact may be:

Basic Pension.     Rs.4485

Current DR            Rs.24299.43

Incl.Ex.gratia.

On merger of CPI 8088 points(current rate)

Same may come to Rs.23868.26

with reduction of Rs.431..17.

Naturally further Ex gratia may require to fill up the short fall.

Let us wait till finalisation of 12th BPS/JN to know exact,position.

Please also note that proposed merger of CPI is not Updation of Pension.

Regards,

Mohan.P

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[kds nair]

In SBI,100 percent da neutralization achieved last month.Today 40/50 basic pension disparity is removed.Now industry wise updation is expected before New Year day.

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

The DFS notification says ex-gratia will be absorbed in future revision of pension structure if any.

So if at all merger of DA with basic at 8088 points take place is there any possibility of losing existing ex-gratia of Rs. 800/450?

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[S L GULATI-ADV:-]

Yes, as far I understand and legally also, merger of 8088 with the present basic, shall result in to stopping of the ex-gratia of Rs. 800/450. But, I am fully optimistic that upward revision is on the cards; on what formulae; I can't say.  Jmskhera ji, Mohan P or Prasad ji can better throw some light. So, after merger of 8088 or upward revision, ex-gratia has to go. 

S L Gulati Advocate 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Future what happens we cannot predict. Considering the present status it is clear

1. IBA has not given positive views about updation to the committee. So we are back to square one.

2.  It is certain the merger of DA only increase  basic and does not result in any increase in pension.

3.  Unless  some  load factor is added it will not be of any use.

4. There is a possibility of losing ex gratia due to the merger of DA

5.  As Delhi High Court has not dealt with Updation issue now focus is on Late Mr.Songla case in SC.

6. In this case IBA has already filed  an affidavit rejecting pension revision, Further no hearing was held and there is no change in the status.

7. It is clear XII BPS will be signed within a few weeks. Still there is no clarity about updation.

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[NSS]

Friends

Record of Proceedings of the Court in the M.C.Singla case shows that both the sides do not want to proceed with the case. 

08/08/2023 - In view of the letter circulated by Advocates of Petitioner as well as the Respondent the case was adjourned.

05/09/2023  -  Upon hearing the counsel, the Court did not take up the case and ordered for listing on 10/10/2023.

10/10/2023 -   Upon hearing the Counsel, the Court did not take up the case and ordered for listing on 21/11/2023.

It is evident that the Pensioners side has been given some assurance on updation and relying on this assurance they have agreed not to go ahead with the Arguments. Whatever it may be, in the next hearing, Pensioners side should present their arguments if no concrete proposal is presented by IBA on that date.   (21/11/2023 is the next date of hearing, This date was fixed by the Court and not a computer-Generated date as shown in the Case Status. Listing on Court fixed date is compulsory while it is no't so for computer generated date.)

  

Our case is strong, and we are sure to win unless something happens like what happened in the 100% DA case. Therefore, the Appellants are requested to go ahead with the arguments without any hesitation.    

Regards

N.Sankara Subramanian                                                                                                                

[Ramani Konnayar]

With regard to what  you have stated in point no. 2, my views are as follows. 

1. If at all the proposed merger takes place, it will most likely happen w.e.f. Feb 2024, coinciding with the half yearly DA revision for pensioners or later. 

2. At that time, DA rate (applicable for employees as well as pensioners) would be around 14% of the new enhanced basic pay/pension (after merger of DA as above). This is calculated as under. 

3. The number of slabs (over and above 6352 points) for pensioners at present is 198. Multiplying this with the projected revised factor of 0.05, Sri. Mohan had mentioned the DA rate after merger as 9.90%.and calculated DA on this %.

4. The number of slabs presently applicable for employees is 259.

In the past, the increase in slabs in the month of February in 2020, 2021 and 2022 was 42, 33, and 37 respectively. 

We can't predict now itself, the increase for Feb 2024. However, going by the past trend and all round price increases seen now,  we can safely expect it to be at least around 20. Thus the total slabs will go upto 280 (259+21). 

5. So, for pensioners, the new DA rate after merger of DA at 8088 points would be 280x0.05  =  14% wef Feb 24. This is 4.1% more than 9.90%.

6. So, the DA shown in the chart of Sri. Mohan will increase by around ₹1400

for the particular basic pension on 5th BPS group to around ₹1800 for the particular basic pension in 11th BPS group over and above the DA mentioned in the table. The increase for the 6,7,8,9,and 10th BPS group would be in between these two figures. Of course, the increase will vary according to the present basic pension. 

7. Thus, there will definitely be some nominal increase in the total pension for all pensioners after merger of DA at 8088 points as explained and in any case no one's total pension will get reduced after merger nor it would remain same as prior to merger. 

K N Ramani

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[mohan p]

Dear Friends,

In fact I do not wish to write further, on this subject.Members might have at least an idea now on this matter.

 But,some points seen here,need clarification,it seems.

Since an illustration on the subject is more explicit,to know the detailed impact on us, on merger of specific CPI points to each segments of pensioners,under 5^th to 11^th BPS/JN, I  have posted the detailed chart.Only to make clear,  that, by this process, no benefit is derived, except increase in notional basic pension with reduced DR,in future.

Interestingly, three or four Videos are in circulation based on the above,chart,in social media.Let all pensioners understand in right percepective,if not made any confusion!

But from the messages, it can be noted that few found  relates, the same to Updation of Pension.At the cost of repetition,I may add here that Merger of certain portion of CPI points to basic pension is NOT updation of pension. ( even  may not consider  as wage revision!)

For Updation of Pension, a  formula should be evolved to move forward.A load factor of 10%- more or so-  as given for RBI pensioners is essential part of such process.

Let it happen soon.

Few clarifications:

-If proposed merger of CPI 8088 points,takes  place to pensioners too,under 12^th BPS/JN process,it may be implemented along with signing of 12^th BPS only, and not  in Feb'2024 as one of our members stated.

-So also DR may not increase at Rs 1400 for 5^th BPS pensioner as stated for a future rate even at 14%

Pl see the comparison chart attached.

DR may increase but it should be compared with existing pension,before meger.

-Where negative pension is shown will be negative in case of increase in DR.

So if a merger takes place at uniform rate  as of now as my chart shown, even if CPI goes up and corresponding percentage of DR increase, same proposition may only happen.Slight increase or decrease.Decrease may have to be compensated.

Pl.see the

AICPIN.IW 2016=100 in past years.

2022-  Jan’20 -118.2  Dec- 125.4 increase 7.2 points

2022.. Jan’21 - 125.1  Dec- 132.3 increase 7.2

2023    Jan -132.8. Sept -137.5( so far incr..4.7)

So we cannot expect CPI may go up  fast/high as we assume.Rarely even on single digit,in a month.

We may have our own assumptions and views.But factual position is to be analysed.AICPIN.IW is released by GOI, we cannot predict.

Unless updation of pension is done no benefit would be derived to pensioners, on this exercise.

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ramani Konnayar]

In my earlier mail, under point no.3, the index level has been wrongly mentioned as 6352 instead of 8088. The error is regretted. 

K N Ramani

[Balakrishnan P.P.]

Thank you Sri Mohanji for taking such a pain to explain the difference between CPI merger and updation of pension.

Balakrishnan,

Canara Bank retiree 

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[VASUDEVAN CHENNAI]

Dear Mr Mohan,

I agree with you that  increase in cost of living index points and increase in basic pay or basic pension will not increase in quantum of pension. 

As a person associated with calculations of wage revision prior to 2001, I know wage revision is worked out to compensate erosion of real  wages due to inflation. Thats purchasing power is reduced. For that reason, load called addl neautralisation of percentage is added and figures worked out and finalized and distributed to different baskets of salary like HRA, BASIC, PF, SPL PAY etc so that net increase will accrue every wage revision. Normally I have witnessed 10% to 15% increase in neutralisation is given in  basic structure so that with reduced DA rate increase is possible.  Salary and Desai awards throw more light on the subject. 

Its all depending on sustainability, profitability to a certain extent, bargaining power, industry trend, Government policy, willingness and mindset. 

Wage revision is never linked to profitability. Even a loss making concern need to revise the cost of labour. Profitability is a comfort zone.

Silver lining seems to emerge. We all do remember that IBA offered 2% increase a few years back and ultimately it has gone up to 12%. Now IBA itself offering 15% and UFBU demanded a little more. 

15% offer means 3% per annum. Had there been an increase of 3% every year our benefit will be more. Once in 5 years rule has come to play. 

Unless finer details emerge all workings are speculative and only of academic interest.

My observation is elections round the corner changed the wind and mind of powers that be.  It is visible thru 100% neutralisation, family pension updation, SBI anomaly rectification, one more option to Resignees etc.  

My only regret is our blog will become redundant once uodation comes in any form.

UFBU will be jobless for another 5 years.

Regards

Vasudevan V

CBREA

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[kds nair]

Horoscope of unborn child.

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Though election round the corner is one of the reason there are few reasons why some of the issues were resolved recently.

1. Consistent struggle legally in courts  and outside by petitioners and commitment to the cause without compromising at any stage.

2.  Apart from the Committee deciding the issue, the State Bank Officers Federation took initiative to get the appointment of DFS officials and presented detailed string representation for restoration of 50% 

Pension. This strengthened resolving the issue and also found mention in the report.

3. Likewise Pathakji also fought a lone battle for long consistently; His  sincerity, honesty and commitment to the cause resulted in resignees getting pension option.

3. Our issues have been pending for 20 years and during this period elections and governments have come and gone. But  due to the positive mindset of present FM and the government some benefits which were pending for a long period have been resolved.

4, Let us hope Updation issue also is resolved during the tenure of Present FM.

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[Lingan Ramalingam]

Dear friends, kindly go through the latest circular issued by AIBEA in which  IBA once again talking about fund constraint in banks.Also IBA said that they may consider some improvement in pension for all retirees from 1986 to 2022.AIBEA said nothing regarding this.I think once again pension updation matter will be sent to residual issue.AIBEA &UFBU ZINDABAD.

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

The merger of basic at 8088 would have benefitted pre 2002 pensioners if 100 percent of DA was not implemented. Now merger at any level has no significant difference.

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[nook raju]

This 1986 to 2002 not 2022

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[Sridhar Mandyam]

Ex gratia was granted for those who were not benefited by 100 percent DA. Logically any future change should not affect ex gratia payment

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Ex-gratia was paid because those who are having basic pension less than 3550 and 3551-5650 were getting nil increase and less increase after implementation of 100% DA.

Once DA is merged Basic Pay of all pensioners will increase and  DA paid according to prevalent rates.

So earlier parameters fixed for 100% DA for Ex-gratia  based on their basic  pension will  be invalid after merger of DA.

Infact after merger of DA everybody should be paid Ex;gratia as pension will decrease for all pensioners.

This ex-gratia is itself a fraud as it does not attract DA and  this ex-gratia concept should never be accepted. Already retirees of 10th and 11th BPS are losing thousands of Rupees pensions as unions have accepted ex-gratia payments which do not attract Pension  in the form of special allowance.

Instead of full fledged updation like RBI formula unions may also accept  some  ex gratia amount over and above merger of DA which does not attract DA and call it updation.

Will pensioners accept it?

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[Ramani Konnayar]

The correct position is that those pensioners who were already getting DA with 100% neutralisation by virtue of their entire basic pension falling within the first slab itself of the tapered DA formula and those who got slightly less than 100% DA due to part of  basic pension spilling over to the second slab too, were sanctioned exgratia of ₹800 &  ₹450 respectively, purely as a goodwill gesture and not due to their being entitled for it, considering that their gross pensions are very low due to non updation for periods ranging from 20 to 25 years. Hence, it has been stipulated that these exgratia would be absorbed in any upward revision of pension in future. 

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[kds nair]

Correct explanation.

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