Exgratia details under RTI - Indian bank

[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Filed first appeal 

Regards.

S Kalyanasundaram

[JSOMA SHEKARA]

If I request data for Pre 2002 pensioners specifically,  they may reply that we are paying pension to Officers, clerks, managers, sub staff  etc which category you are referring to.

On Fri, Dec 12, 2025 at 5:40 PM JSOMA SHEKARA <jsomase...@gmail.com> wrote:

I had submitted Ex gratia details from Canra Bank

My Query
Ex gratia was implemented for all Canara Bank (Ex Staff)pensioners during 12th BPS in 2024
Please provide with the total amount of expenditure incurred towards Ex gratia paid to all pensioners from 01.04.2024 to 31.03.25. 

THe Reply is funny. All pensioners means  include all 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

I had submitted Ex gratia details from Canra Bank

My Query
Ex gratia was implemented for all Canara Bank (Ex Staff)pensioners during 12th BPS in 2024
Please provide with the total amount of expenditure incurred towards Ex gratia paid to all pensioners from 01.04.2024 to 31.03.25. 

THe Reply is funny. All pensioners means  include all 

On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 9:37 AM Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <1952...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

My experience is like this. 

They declne to provide the information on some flimsy grounds. Or they provide some irrelevant information. When we make an appeal, the appellate authority (without appication of mind) simply confirms the reply originally given.Getting the first reply and reply for the first appeal takes around 2 or 3 months. 

Then when we file Second appeal, the hearing itself comes after 6 months or so. Again, mostly the request is dismissed. Or even if the second appeal is decided in our favour, once again the bank provides some irrelevant data and get away with it. We do not have further course except legally proceeding against them. 

We do not have to time and resources to go in person for the second appeal hearing. This becomes convenient tool for the banks to misguide. 

Ulitimately there is no right to information, only right to suppress the information for the banks. 

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Reply received is attached. 

 

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Ravi Kumar]

What is the need this information? 

The recent BPS has given the amount of ex-gratia payable to each pensioner, BPS wise. 

You can ask for details of pensioners retired year wise  from 1986 onwards.

Ravi

To the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure - J.K. Rowling 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

They will never furnish any information pertaining to pensioners. UFBU and retirees associations will not seek information.  But IBA stuns the judge by claiming Updation requires Rs.150000 crores. It is upto litigants to prove that actual cost of updation amounts to  just 25 to 30000 crores for all Banks and IBAs claim includes Provisional cost which can be spread over 5 years. 

IBA will focus on cost factor only in SC  and litigants may not have enough information to counter the IBA claim. Because of this Banks will not furnish cost information at any cost and furnish evasive replies in response to RTI queries.                                                                                                                                                                  

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[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Dear Mr Ravi Kumar 

As per settlement Ex-gratia was to be reviewed. But this has not been done. 

If we know the amount of ex-gratia paid so far, we can work out the cost of any percentage increase in ex-gratia. The idea is to know the cost of any increase in ex-gratia. Based on this it will be possible for the pensioners to  put up a  demand and convince the Finance ministry officials. 

When the chances of getting pension updation seems to be remote in the near future, at least an attempt can be made to increase the ex-gratia. What is wrong in trying to get this informaton?

The bank informs the pension details to each pensioner every month with break up of Basic, DA, Ex-gratia. It is a blatant lie on the part of the bank to claim that it does not have the details of ex-gratia. 

I intend to move second appeal. 

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Perianayagam velu]

If the information given to supreme court we can ask for details how the calculation was arrived.break up figure for each year ,and so on.

          Hope retires association ask for information through RTI from iba

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[MOHAN P]

IBA argues it's a voluntary body of banks, not directly government-funded or controlled, and thus outside RTI.

So no information is passed on by IBA as of now.

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[Ramani Konnayar]

IBA-UFBU appear to take the stand that a review need not necessarily result in an increase and that in the reviews promptly made in April 2024 and April 2025 as stipulated in the BPS, it was decided to continue the same amounts as no case was made out for a revision (upward/downward). For them, the word 'reviewing' is akin to the word 'considering' which does not always mean considering favourably.

We should, in fact, be happy that the reviews did not result in a decrease.

K N RAMANI 

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[Niranjan Cn]

Sirs,  Banks should reply with figures without ambiguity - which gives unnecessary doubts in minds of pensioners.

However, what we want to do with these figures ?  Even if it is 10 crores or 100 crores - any action/inferance intended ?

Please think it over.

Niranjan

On Wed, Dec 24, 2025 at 9:21 AM Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam <1952...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

IBA have only two arguments against Updation in  M C Singhla case.

1. Pension regulation does not have provision for periodical rev vision of pension.

2. Banks cannot afford the cost of Updation.

UFBU can negotiate the issue with IBA with some modification of the RBI formula for updation.

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But in SC updation case the  first argument of IBA does not hold much validity after Union government approved updation in RBI.

But as far as cost is concerned IBA will get all information from Banks and petitioners will be at great disadvantage.  Without authentic information petitioners cannot counter IBA claim of huge cost effectively.

This is purely one sided affair.  But IBA and Banks attitude towards pensioners  is "we are dealing with

UFBU, who are you to seek details. You are third party"

Pay commission, RBI,LIC are treating their pensioners in dignified manner.

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[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

Do we have any information that actually some review has been done?

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Kalyanasundaram Subramaniam]

We do not know what exactly is our demand of updation. Is it similar to  RBI employees pension or something else?

We also do not know what is the cost of any updation exercise. 

As a temporary measure  the ex-gratia system was introduced. 

Now the banks have the data of ex-gratia payment. If this data is shared, we can work out the cost of increase in exgratia very easily. There is no requirement of elaborate calculation involving actuary estimation. Only for funding actuary estimation may be required. Based on this, a demand for suitable increase in ex-gratia can be put up for discussion and any possible agreement. 

But before getting the data, why to guess that the data will be useless for us?

S Kalyanasundaram 

[Narendra Khutate]

Pension Regulation 56 satisfy all your queries.

There was no updation clause in CCS72 PENSION REGULATIONS hence it can non be in Bank pension Regulation 93.

Please stress on Regulation 56 only.

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[Niranjan Cn]

Sirs,

Both the points, IBA replied like that because the petitions have submitted that there is provision in Pension Regulations and Banks have to update and further petitioners argued that there sufficient funds are available in Pension Funds to absorb updation load - for this IBA submitted to SC that it will cost hugely to the Banks.  We can understand for family pension updation, the cost was around 20k crores, corresponding amount for regular pension updation naturally costs more.  Both, we cannot dispute/argue.

Basic question whether the updation is a legal issue ??  Can Court order this formula to be adopted for updation (if so as per which rule/law) ??     Further we may recall the family pension revision 100% DA, pension option to resignees have come without any court order, corresponding Regulations or proving availability of Funds.  We shall get better pension in similar way.

Niranjan

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[Ramani Konnayar]

It was mentioned in the minutes of the joint meeting between IBA and UFBU

communicated by UFBU that it was decided to continue the same amount of ex-gratia for one more year. We don't 

know, if, actually, any review was made prior to or during the meeting with relevant details.

In fact, we don't even know whether ex-gratia is paid out of Pension Funds or

directly debited to P&L account such as Staff Welfare Expenses such as Medical Reimbursement, etc. to circumvent AS-15 norms.

One thing is clear. Banks are reluctant to spend much on pensioners over and above pension, perhaps because they

feel the expenses are of unproductive 

nature.

K N RAMANI 

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[JSOMA SHEKARA]

Mr.Niranjan

What you have explained is very much true.

For filing a court case there should be Cause of action. That if IBA and UFBU had discussed Updation issue and talks have failed then the cause of action arises. 

So far there is no evidence of UFBU placing specific demand for Updation before  IBA and no discussion was held and there is no official record of iBA rejecting Updation. IBA in BPS  is avoiding discussing the issue citing sub judice. Any management will not grant any benefit unless there is consistent and strong demand by Unions. Unions have treated updation as Misc matters. Hon High court judge also rejected the updation prayer observing petitioners should have negotiated with the management instead of coming to court. Issues like no provision in pension regulations and cost can be negotiated with Management by Unions.  Unions can negotiate an updation scheme in which at least pensioners get double the Ex gratia amount if not as per RBI updation scheme. The ball is in UFBU court.But they are not interested in it.

Retiree associations are hand in glove with unions in purposefully stalling updation by filing updation case without any legal ground and basing arguments on Reg35/1 and Pension funds which previous courts have rejected. AIBOA is confident of winning the updation case in High court but unable to convince Mangement.

Is there any one among 750000 pensioners who dares to convince UFBU to take up the updation issue on priority basis? Unti then Updation will remain as a dream.

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