(Sao Jorge) Engagement of marriage and de-recognition of child??

[Ava]

Hi all. I've encountered what seems to be a discrepancy in the legitimacy status of a child? I'll leave the records and my notes below, but here is an English summary since I didn't translate the record.

Birth: of Jorge, son of Joana Silveira and Joao Matos Leal, both solteiros but engaged to marry. The priest mentions that some sort of written contract signed on 25 Jun 1822 bound them to marry at some point (the contract did not marry them). 

He is the son of Jose de Matos Leal and Barbara Josefa da Silveira (erroneously noted as Barbara da Conceição and after corrected; perhaps that's the name she used before marriage.) 

She is the daughter of João Matos Silveira and Isabel Silveira. The priest erroneously stated that Isabel is from Manadas; she is from the parish Ribeira Seca.

Jorge was born 6th September of the same year and baptized on 11th of the same month and year.

Marriage: Jorge marries Maria Delfina do Coração de Jesus, daughter of Manuel Jose Machado and Ana Delfina do Coração de Jesus, on 22/09/1849. His father is listed now as "pai incognito" which I find odd as the father was acknowledged and there are other records in this time listing both parents with filho natural phrasing.

Death: Jorge dies 31 June 1894, still married. He is now listed as filho ILLEGITIMO de Joana Silveira. Father is not mentioned even as incognito. Other death records surrounding this use filho natural, which is an outlier. Even for children with unknown fathers I generally see "filho natural de XYZ e de pai incognito" or in older records "filho de XYZ, solteira...."

I'm curious if anyone would have some insight into this. Obviously there would be a social stigma of a sort concerning illegitimacy but the father **was** known and acknowledged as the father by the church

Also:: Joao Matos Leal dies 10 Feb 1838 in Manadas; he is listed as solteiro and no mention of children.

Transcripts of the records with somewhat normalize orthography (may have typing errors don't mind those):

Jorge filho de Joana Silveira, solteira, filha de João de Matos da Silveira e de sua mulher Isabel Silveira a quelle natural da paróquia de Santa Bárbara, lugar das Manadas, e sua mulher a dita Isabel Silveira e sua filha Joana Silveira naturais e todos fregueses desta paróquia do Apóstolo Santiago lugar da Ribeira Seca, termo da vila da Calheta de São Jorge, é filho do seu futuro esposo João de Matos Leal, filho de José de Sousa Leal e de sua mulher Bárbara da Conceição, digo, de sua mulher Bárbara Josefa da Silveira, naturais e fregueses da dita paróquia de Santa Bárbara, a cujo matrimônio se obrigaram por humais vitura[??], que me foi a presentada ao fazer este termo, foita em os vinte e cinco dias de junho de mil oito centos e vinte e dois, cujo menino nasceu em os seis dias de setembro do dito ano de mil outo centos e vinte e dois, e foi baptizado aos onze dias do mesmo mês por mim Mateus Teixeira Machado Beirão[?], vigario dela, foram padrinhos Barbara da Conceicao e seu filho Mateus Silveira forao mais testemunhas Jose Silveira Lopes e Joao Silveira Machado e que foi este termo que assigno com as testemunhas dia mes era supra.

Jorge Silveira de Matos filho de Joana Silveira de Matos e de pai incógnito casou solemnemente com Maria Delfina do Coração de Jesus filha de Manuel Jose Machado e de sua mulher Ana Delfina do Coração de Jesus natural da Matriz da Vila de Calheta de São Jorge aquele natural e fregueses desta paróquia de Santiago da mesma vila pelo Antonio Vitorino da Silveira, o Cura desta dita Igreja em os vinte e dois de setembro de mil oito centos quarenta e nove na presença das testemunhas mateus candido de Silveira e Vitorino Joaquim Machado desta mesma freguesia e que para constar se fez o presente termo, era ut supra

Aos trinta e um dias do mês de junho do ano de mil oitocentos noventa e quatro às doze horas da noite na uma casa situada nas travessas, lugar desta freguesia de Santiago da Ribeira Seca do concelho da Calheta da ilha de São Jorge, diocese de Angra, faleceu, tendo recebido as sacramentos da Sancta Madre Igreja, um individuo do sexo masculino por nome Jorge Silveira de Matos, de idade de setenta e um anos, entrevado, casado com Maria Delfina, natural desta freguesia e morador nesta, filho illegitimo de Joana Silveira de Matos, de occupação domestica, e natural desta mesma freguesia, o qual fez testamento, não deixou filhos, e foi sepultado no cemiterio publico. E para constar lavrei em duplicado este assento, que assino. Era ut supra.

Em os dez dias de Fevereiro de mil oito centos trinta e oito faleceu da vida presente com todos os acuinos sacramentos, João de Sousa Leal, solteiro, filho de José de Sousa Leal, e de sua mulher Bárbara Josefa, natural e fregueses desta paroquial igreja da Martir Santa Barbara, lugar das Manadas, tendo trinta e cinco anos de vida e foi seu corpo acompanhado a sepultura pelos seus R.os Padres[?], e mais padres do lugar com os cruis da irmandade e pendem da Senhora do Carmo está sepultado no cemitério desta dita parochia de que na constar faço este termo que assigno era ut supra

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Ava ,

You need to attach the URLs of the original record. (Baptism of Jorge).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Ava]

My bad! Here you go;

Baptism of Jorge https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-B-1820-1842/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-B-1820-1842_item1/index.html?page=41

His marriage https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-C-1849-1860/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-C-1849-1860_item1/index.html?page=4

His death https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-O-1890-1899/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-O-1890-1899_item1/index.html?page=83

Death of the father https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-VL-MANADAS-O-1816-1842/SJR-VL-MANADAS-O-1816-1842_item1/index.html?page=98

[Nelson A]

You have to love records. I had a similar record which showed the father was not known when the individual died. What was odd, it was one of the recent records which noted that the father was unknown at the death but listed on the birth and marriage record. When I asked a cousin who lived there until she was 40, she stated sometimes the family would have a disagreement which led to the family not talking. When one of her sisters on the island died, the family did not want to mention the father, so they listed him as "Pai Incognito." I am not sure if this may be the case in this situation, but I would contribute what was told to me. I hope you find some answers as I know it can be frustrating.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/68966786-c61d-49e0-8110-0fc979899caen%40googlegroups.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Ava, Is this Jorge Silveira de Mattos your ancestor?

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAOdVSrC_PDwXH_PJSjdFQWgUw98QQ_JxOeUQLOmv2YzZ%3DZw95g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ava]

He is the child of one of my ancestors; his mother is my direct ancestor.

[Cheri Mello]

I'd be 100% sure that Joanna Silveira and Joanna Silveira de Mattos are the same person. They seem like it, but I don't research your freguesia.

Starting with the last event in his life (his death, where he didn't give the information), he's 71, crippled, illegitimate son of Joanna Silveira de Mattos, made a will, and left no kids. Perhaps his wife, Maria Delfina, gave the info.

The marriages don't state the ages of the bride and groom in this time period. Maria Delfina is now Maria Delfina do Coração de Jesus. 

The baptism is a bit different (and fits with his death age which is good). However, a native speaker is going to be needed here. Jorge is the son of Joanna Sylveira who is single. Then it gives her parents. Then I read that he (baby Jorge) is the son of Joam de Mattos Leal, then his parents. Yes, he names the groom's mom as Barbara da Conceição,then says "I meant to say" (digo) Barbara Josefa da Sylveira. If you look at the godparents, the godmother is Barbara da Conceição and her son, Matteus Sylveira, is the godfather. So he wrote the godmother's name by mistake as the mother and then had to correct himself. Locations (freguesias) are stated for these people. Then the next part is a bit weird. I'm translating what you call a "written contract signed on 25 Jun 1822" as "whose marriage already obligated by another" and I'm not sure about the next part. So I went to the marriages on 6 June 1822 and found nothing. So maybe his marriage bann was published on 25 June 1822? That was a Saturday.

I can come up with more speculation, but it will be just that - speculation. You may want to pay João Ventura, the archivist, to translate and interpret that baptism record. He's probably already seen it. He made a book on the genealogy of the whole freguesia of Ribeira Seca. You can reach him at heroi99 at Yahoo.com

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/a8cb93ac-f8d1-413c-be73-21056f7300cdn%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Seidler]

Hello Ava,

I read the records exactly as you do.  My only thought is that they didn't go through with the marriage so the stated paternity was discarded.  If that is the case it is puzzling that the baptism was not annotated as such and how the paternity on Jorge's baptism (Joao Matos Leal) and marriage (pai Incognito) do not match.  Perhaps they had another certificate that did not match what was written in the baptism book.

Here is Jorge's mother's marriage in 1826.  She is clearly the same Joana in Jorge's baptism and in the clipping below.

https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-C-1822-1849/SJR-CH-RIBEIRASECA-C-1822-1849_item1/index.html?page=23

Here is an clipping from the 1839 Ribeira Seca Rol de Confessados that shows Jorge is a stepson (ent. abreviation for enteado) where all the younger kids are filhas and filhos.  Jorge is listed as 16 (though it looks like 11; there are more ages listed than people) so born about 1822 or 1823 which fits.  Joao Antonio de Azevedo and Joana do not marry until 1826 so Jorge being a stepson also fits.  This document is available on the SJGS website https://saojorgegenealogy.org/

I hope this helps.

Bill Seidler