Maria Luis or Pimentel in Nordeste, São Miguel ?

[Fábio Márquez]

Hello everyone!

I need some guidance on whether this Maria Luis from this marriage:

https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1755-1768/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1755-1768_item1/index.html?page=8

 is the same one listed as the mother here in Francisca's birth certificate:

 https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-B-1748-1758/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-B-1748-1758_item1/index.html?page=133

 and here Also: https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1768-1783/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1768-1783_item1/index.html?page=50

 A search was conducted in the parish marriage records of São Jorge, from the periods 1744-1755 and 1755-1768 (in this case, going up to 1756, as Francisca was born in March 1757), and the only couple found outside of this record was "Manoel Vieira and Maria."

[Fábio Márquez]

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[Cheri Mello]

This is one of those cases where you're going to have to do a whole lot of analyzing of the penmanship. And somebody rewrote that baptism book later (beautifully, I might add. However, we don't know how they were interpreting the original or what shape the original was in).

The marriage on 16 Mar 1756 of Manuel Vieira and Maria Luiz....

This guy doesn't write in a straight line and it's hard to follow. I can clearly see Manuel Vieira and I can clear tell it's a V in Vieira. He's the son of Francisco Vieira and Maria scribble scrabble. It could be "da ___" or something else. Trying to track to the next line shows a word between the 2 lines. I have no idea what the priest means. Then is says Maria Luiz was the daughter of Manuel Ferreira, I believe. It's clearly an F. There's Fs all over the page for filha, filho, freguesia, etc. And you can compare that F in Ferreira to the groom's V in Vieira. But is says Manuel Ferreira ___ and I can't make it out. Mom is Maria Carreira maybe. You'd need to find more Cs and Ps on the page (or the pages before or after and compare).

It doesn't match the baptism of Francisca. However, that baptism book was rewritten. We don't know how they were reading the original or what shape the original was in.

Ernesto do Canto indexed the marriages of Nordeste from 1583-1850. He probably did this in the late 1800s or early 1900s. The only way to access those marriages is to go there. The archives won't do a search for you.

Rodrigo Rodrigues doesn't have a Maria Luiz married to a Manuel Vieira in his work. I checked that for you.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Fábio Márquez]

Chery, Thank you very much!!!

So in this case, isn't this Maria Luis Francisca's mother? I imagined that the last name of this Maria Luis' mother might be "Pimentel"... I believe it's the letter "P" (and right after that, I imagine the priest wrote "already deceased"). If it was "Pimentel," could that be a clue to a correlation with Maria de Pimentel, Francisca's mother (also married to a Manoel Vieira)?

When you suggest going there, do you mean going to the Azores in person or by tombo? Are these manuscripts by Mr. Canto available in book form?

Em sáb, 12 de jul de 2025 16:00, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> escreveu:

Este é um daqueles casos em que você terá que analisar bastante a caligrafia. E alguém reescreveu aquele livro de batismo mais tarde (lindamente, devo acrescentar. No entanto, não sabemos como eles estavam interpretando o original ou em que formato ele estava).

O casamento em 16 de março de 1756 de Manuel Vieira e Maria Luiz....

Este cara não escreve em linha reta e é difícil de acompanhar. Consigo ver claramente Manuel Vieira e posso dizer claramente que é um V em Vieira. Ele é filho de Francisco Vieira e Maria rabisca scrabble. Poderia ser "da ___" ou outra coisa. Tentando rastrear para a próxima linha, aparece uma palavra entre as duas linhas. Não tenho ideia do que o padre quer dizer. Então ele diz que Maria Luiz era filha de Manuel Ferreira, eu acho. É claramente um F. Há Fs por toda a página para filha, filho, freguesia, etc. E você pode comparar esse F em Ferreira com o V do noivo em Vieira. Mas ele diz Manuel Ferreira ___ e eu não consigo entender. A mãe é Maria Carreira, talvez. Você precisaria encontrar mais Cs e Ps na página (ou nas páginas antes ou depois e comparar).

Não corresponde ao batismo de Francisca. No entanto, esse livro de batismo foi reescrito. Não sabemos como eles leram o original ou em que estado ele estava.

Ernesto do Canto indexou os casamentos do Nordeste entre 1583 e 1850. Ele provavelmente fez isso no final do século XIX ou início do século XX. A única maneira de acessar esses casamentos é indo até lá. Os arquivos não farão a busca para você.

Rodrigo Rodrigues não tem nenhuma Maria Luiz casada com Manuel Vieira em seu trabalho. Eu verifiquei isso para você.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Pesquisa: Ilha de São Miguel: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 10:47 AM Fábio Márquez <boni...@gmail.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ---------
De: Fábio Márquez < boni...@gmail.com >
Date: qui, 10 de jul de 2025 19:46
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Maria Luis or Pimentel in Nordeste, São Miguel ?

Para: Azores Genealogy < azo...@googlegroups.com >

Olá pessoal!

Preciso de alguma orientação sobre se esta Maria Luis deste casamento:

https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- ND-SAOJORGE-C-1755-1768/SMG- ND-SAOJORGE-C-1755-1768_item1/ index.html?page= 8

 é a mesma listada como mãe aqui na certidão de nascimento de Francisca:

 https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- ND-SAOJORGE-B-1748-1758/SMG- ND-SAOJORGE-B-1748-1758_item1/ index.html?page= 133

 e aqui também: https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG- ND-SAOJORGE-C-1768-1783/SMG- ND-SAOJORGE-C-1768-1783_item1/ index.html?page=50

 Foi realizada uma busca nos registros de casamentos da paróquia de São Jorge, dos períodos de 1744-1755 e 1755-1768 (neste caso, até 1756, pois Francisca nasceu em março de 1757), e o único casal encontrado fora deste registro foi "Manoel Vieira e Maria".

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[Cheri Mello]

Hi Fabio,

The first marriage is a Manuel Vieira to a Maria Luiz. It is a very clear V in Vieira. Maria's parents look like Manuel Ferreira ___ and Maria Carreira? Pereira? More study of those handwritten letters needs to be done. At this stage, there's nothing in that marriage to show Maria Luiz is a Pimentel.

Francisca's baptism is to parents named Manuel Vieira and a Maria de Pimentel. At this time period, they do not list the grandparents.

Luiz can be a given name or a surname. We can't tell at this point in our research.

I'd look ALL baptisms to a Manuel Vieira and Maria Luis or Maria de Pimentel. If they are the same couple, then the spacing of the baptisms will make sense. If they are 2 couples with very similar names, you will find babies being baptized only months apart. It will happen sooner or later. I've had to do that a few times with my research. It's not fun and rather tedious to try to figure out if you have 1 couple or 2 couples and you are looking at a baby born to every Manuel Vieira and a Maria _____.

I meant you would have to travel to the Azores in person. When I used Canto's indices (in person in the Archive in Ponta Delgada), they were bound in books. They were not digitized. Hopefully they will be one day.

I hope I was more clear this time :)

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Fábio Márquez]

Thank you, Chery...I'll go work in this marriage!!!!

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