Souza/Sousa Genealogy Help

[Steve Stevens]

Hello all! 

I just found this group while digging for Azores civil records or information. My great-grandfather Manuel/Manoel de Sousa/Souza was born about 28 February 1868 in ST. Michael/Sao Miguel, Azores, Portugal and immigrated to the US about 16 April 1885/86 at Boston, MA.  He was naturalized 5 Nov 1897. According to marriage records, his parents were John Soza and Mary Silva. Knowing that these names are like Smith and Jones in the US, I was hoping for some help locating Portuguese records for the family. He had three sisters, Mary (abt1871-1933), Marion Augusta (abt 1875-1943) and Gertrude Alice (???-aft 1943).

Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,

Steve Stevens (Souza)

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve S,

Sousa is the modern Portuguese spelling. Before 1911 you will see Souza. At least in the Portuguese records. The set of records you'll be dealing with won't be the Civil Registers but the Church records.

Yes, Souza/Sousa and Silva are 2 of the most common names. Records over there are organized on the village level. You have to know the village, especially when you are dealing with Sao Miguel island. That island alone holds half the population of the Azores and has approximately 70 churches to look through. It's a needle in a haystack.

You have the immigration date. Unfortunately, the emigration leaving the port of Ponta Delgada on the island of Sao Miguel has some gaps in the records. That 1885-1886 is one gap. The records are simply missing.

If none of your research has turned up a village (called a freguesia) on your Manuel, you'll have to research his sisters and find their immigration and naturalizations. And you'll most likely have to use DNA. Your matches might point towards a particular region on Sao Miguel. Or maybe you'll find a cousin. If your parent(s) are alive test them first. If they are not alive, test their sibling(s). If they are not alive, then you are the best candidate for the DNA test. Order through the Azores DNA Project on Family Tree DNA. Use this link:

https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=AzoresIslands

You want the Family Finder which is on sale for $49 (+$12.95 S&H - includes return postage if you still reside in the U.S.). The sale ends tonight (Jan. 2) at 11:59 pm PST.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Steve Stevens]

Thanks for the information you provided. I have some other information, but is does not match up to San Miguel. It saya Terceira.

I did the 64 Y-DNA test years ago and Ancestry chose not to use these with their new DNA test. I can provide the results if it would help, but it looks like I can not join the DNA group without a new test. I believe I have his entry into Boston, from Flores on the bark Sarah 2 dec 1887 

Regards,

Steve Stevens

On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 11:38:54 AM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:

Hi Steve S,

Sousa is the modern Portuguese spelling. Before 1911 you will see Souza. At least in the Portuguese records. The set of records you'll be dealing with won't be the Civil Registers but the Church records.

Yes, Souza/Sousa and Silva are 2 of the most common names. Records over there are organized on the village level. You have to know the village, especially when you are dealing with Sao Miguel island. That island alone holds half the population of the Azores and has approximately 70 churches to look through. It's a needle in a haystack.

You have the immigration date. Unfortunately, the emigration leaving the port of Ponta Delgada on the island of Sao Miguel has some gaps in the records. That 1885-1886 is one gap. The records are simply missing.

If none of your research has turned up a village (called a freguesia) on your Manuel, you'll have to research his sisters and find their immigration and naturalizations. And you'll most likely have to use DNA. Your matches might point towards a particular region on Sao Miguel. Or maybe you'll find a cousin. If your parent(s) are alive test them first. If they are not alive, test their sibling(s). If they are not alive, then you are the best candidate for the DNA test. Order through the Azores DNA Project on Family Tree DNA. Use this link:

https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=AzoresIslands

You want the Family Finder which is on sale for $49 (+$12.95 S&H - includes return postage if you still reside in the U.S.). The sale ends tonight (Jan. 2) at 11:59 pm PST.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 8:23 AM Steve Stevens <steve.s...@cox.net> wrote:

Hello all! 

I just found this group while digging for Azores civil records or information. My great-grandfather Manuel/Manoel de Sousa/Souza was born about 28 February 1868 in ST. Michael/Sao Miguel, Azores, Portugal and immigrated to the US about 16 April 1885/86 at Boston, MA.  He was naturalized 5 Nov 1897. According to marriage records, his parents were John Soza and Mary Silva. Knowing that these names are like Smith and Jones in the US, I was hoping for some help locating Portuguese records for the family. He had three sisters, Mary (abt1871-1933), Marion Augusta (abt 1875-1943) and Gertrude Alice (???-aft 1943).

Any help would be most appreciated.

Regards,

Steve Stevens (Souza)

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[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve S,

Are you sure about that? I can't find a Manuel Souza coming into Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from Flores. But I found a Manuel Souza coming into Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from FAIAL. It's getting to be confusing. First you said it was Sao Miguel island, then Flores island, but I find Faial island. What documents do you have that say Sao Miguel? What documents say Flores? Depending on your answers to those questions will point to the right solution. Otherwise, it's a wild goose chase.

You did a Y-DNA test with which company? Family Tree DNA or Ancestry? They are 2 different companies. Ancestry did Y-DNA testing years ago, but they didn't test 64 markers. FTDNA has a Y-DNA 67 test, if that is what you mean. If you did it with Ancestry, you can transfer their Y-DNA 33 or Y-DNA 46 over to FTDNA (if you downloaded the raw data file). You won't get 33 or 46 markers though, as they aren't all compatible. You can make them compatible by providing a swab and paying a fee:

If you did a Y-DNA test with FTDNA, you can join the Azores DNA Project. You didn't directly say that your Stephens is a corruption of Souza though. I'm guessing by your signature. And if you did test with FTDNA, you need to add the Family Finder test. It's another tool to use. Y-DNA testing is a direct line test - your father's father's father's line only. Family Finder (autosomal DNA testing) covers all your lines going back about 200 years from your birth. You'd have to tease them apart. If you did an Ancestry DNA test (like the ones you see on TV), you did an autosomal DNA test and these transfer over to FTDNA. You get matches for free. The tools and ethnicity estimates are $19.

Set me straight on your island and hopefully I can point you in the right direction.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Steve Stevens]

Yeah I'm sure A Manuel Sousa entered 2 Dec 1887 on Ship Bark Sarah 19/1 Male Laborer Fayal, Fall River Forward 2 bags, but not sure it is My Manual Sousa.

Let me start from my beginning journey on researching him.

1. 1900 Census Massachusetts, Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht 34B, ED 9, shows my g-grandfather on line 51 as Souza, Manuel, b. Feb 1868, age 32, married 9 years, births of he, father and mother Western Islands, year of immigration given as 1890, been here 10 years and still Alien and a laborer.

2. 1910 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht 11B, ED 10, line 60, Soza, Manuel this time year of immigration is 1887 and he is still an alien.

3. 1920 Census Massachusetts Barnstable County, Town of Falmouth, Sht 16B, ED 12, line 76, Soza, Manuel back to 1885 and naturalized 1919

4. Obituary reveals this information:  Born 28 Jan 1868 (note conflict with 1900 Census of Feb 1868) in Terceira, Azores

Now given a birth date of either 28 Jan or Feb 1868, immigration between 1885 and 1887 and naturalized in 1919, I turned to immigration and naturalization records:

Index to Naturalization Records:

Massachusetts State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1798-1950, 

closest match Manoel de Souza, country of birth or allegiance Portugal, birth 28 Feb 1868, date of naturalization 5 Nov 1897 (conflict with 1920 Census

Name:	Manoel De Souza
Petition Age:	30
Record Type:	Petition
Birth Date:	28 Feb 1868
Birth Place:	St Michael Azores
Arrival Date:	16 Apr 1885
Arrival Place:	Boston
Petition Date:	9 Nov 1897
Petition Place:	Boston, Massachusetts, USA

Boston Passenger List 1820-1943-
July 1884, Ship Acoriano, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, St Meguells, US, Steerage
November 1885, Ship Benguella, Manuel S 18, M, Tourist, Portugal, Portugal, Cuba, 3, Cabin,,V
April 1886, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel B de Sousa, 18/3, Male Laborer, , Flores, , , Steerage Forward,
2 Dec 1887, Ship Bark Sarah, Manuel Sousa, 19/1, Male, Laborer, Fayal, Fall River, Forward, 2 bags
April 1888, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel da Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, Grasiosa, Grasiosa, USA, Steerage
April 1889, Ship Forest Fairy, Manuel de Souza, 18, Male, Laborer, Portugal, Western Islands

There is a Manoel de Souza vermintol who matches almost identically much, but don't undersrtand the "vermintol" on the British Basque Paladin and he is from Sao Miguel

Name	Manoel De souza vemintol
Birth	abt 1868
Departure	Azores
Arrival	Boston, Massachusetts, USA 17 Apr 1885

Going to cut it short here to hear what you have to say. Thanks a bunch for the help, I think it cleared things up in my own mind at least

On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 6:22:11 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:

Hi Steve S,

Are you sure about that? I can't find a Manuel Souza coming into Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from Flores. But I found a Manuel Souza coming into Boston on 2 Dec 1887 on the Sarah from FAIAL. It's getting to be confusing. First you said it was Sao Miguel island, then Flores island, but I find Faial island. What documents do you have that say Sao Miguel? What documents say Flores? Depending on your answers to those questions will point to the right solution. Otherwise, it's a wild goose chase.

You did a Y-DNA test with which company? Family Tree DNA or Ancestry? They are 2 different companies. Ancestry did Y-DNA testing years ago, but they didn't test 64 markers. FTDNA has a Y-DNA 67 test, if that is what you mean. If you did it with Ancestry, you can transfer their Y-DNA 33 or Y-DNA 46 over to FTDNA (if you downloaded the raw data file). You won't get 33 or 46 markers though, as they aren't all compatible. You can make them compatible by providing a swab and paying a fee:

If you did a Y-DNA test with FTDNA, you can join the Azores DNA Project. You didn't directly say that your Stephens is a corruption of Souza though. I'm guessing by your signature. And if you did test with FTDNA, you need to add the Family Finder test. It's another tool to use. Y-DNA testing is a direct line test - your father's father's father's line only. Family Finder (autosomal DNA testing) covers all your lines going back about 200 years from your birth. You'd have to tease them apart. If you did an Ancestry DNA test (like the ones you see on TV), you did an autosomal DNA test and these transfer over to FTDNA. You get matches for free. The tools and ethnicity estimates are $19.

Set me straight on your island and hopefully I can point you in the right direction.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5ea0d2cf-f18f-4b04-8e34-2149ebc4e6b1%40googlegroups.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the timeline. That helps a lot. These are all records you've done from online searches? Not everything is online, especially the naturalizations. Currently, it's around $65 to do a search (and no guarantee they'll find the right Manuel). The fees are slated to go to a few HUNDRED for just a search. $300 or so.

Even though your Manuel did not personally provide the information for the obituary, I'd use that. The person telling his life story probably got the island right. But to search for Manuel de Souzas leaving Terceira between 1885-1887 will turn up a lot. You said his parents were Joao Souza and Maria Reis. It will be tedious, but you can go page by page, looking for a Manuel de Souza born to a Joao de Souza and Maria Reis:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890_item1/index.html

However, for that time period, I don't think his mom will be listed as Maria Reis. She'll be Maria Religious Name. She was probably a daughter of a Reis and that information is not listed in the passaportes.

Do you have Manuel's siblings' information? That might turn up clues. Because he's a Manuel de Souza though, DNA is probably going to be your best bet.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Steve Stevens]

Cheri,

Thanks again. His parents were John Soza and Mary Silva. I will search the site you referenced, thanks.

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 2:19:06 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the timeline. That helps a lot. These are all records you've done from online searches? Not everything is online, especially the naturalizations. Currently, it's around $65 to do a search (and no guarantee they'll find the right Manuel). The fees are slated to go to a few HUNDRED for just a search. $300 or so.

Even though your Manuel did not personally provide the information for the obituary, I'd use that. The person telling his life story probably got the island right. But to search for Manuel de Souzas leaving Terceira between 1885-1887 will turn up a lot. You said his parents were Joao Souza and Maria Reis. It will be tedious, but you can go page by page, looking for a Manuel de Souza born to a Joao de Souza and Maria Reis:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890/PASSAPORTES-TER-1884-1890_item1/index.html

However, for that time period, I don't think his mom will be listed as Maria Reis. She'll be Maria Religious Name. She was probably a daughter of a Reis and that information is not listed in the passaportes.

Do you have Manuel's siblings' information? That might turn up clues. Because he's a Manuel de Souza though, DNA is probably going to be your best bet.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/0195b844-67b1-4814-9fa4-b697dca243ec%40googlegroups.com.

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Steve,

Sorry, I misread then. In the Portuguese based records, you are looking for parents named João de Souza and Maria da Silva, but I doubt she's listed that way. She'll be a Maria Religious Middle Name.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Steve Stevens]

I know I sound screwed up, blame it on the drugs (have bronchitis and taking cough syrup with codeine) but the information I have, even coming from relatives, is screwed up. First of all my name, my grand parents changed their name from Soza to Stevens 27 Feb 1924 believing that my great grand father was actually an Estevez vice Soza. I have no idea how they got there except a great uncle also mentioned it to a family member before he died. So I never had a chance to be "right."

The DNA test was a y-46 DNA test at Ancestry.com. Dyslexia runs in the family. The test results which I have attached show Haplogroup R1b "The Artisans" they say. You may use the data if you wish I have no intention right now of paying for another subscription, just updated to Ancestry World and have found that to be a waste for me.

Searching the Passport site you provided, I looked through 1884 and 1885 as this seems to be the most often recorded years for his immigration and found some that caught my eye, but need translation if you will:

p.8 #55

p.20 #181, 182

p.52 #152

p.53 #158

p.59 #223

p.75 #14

p.101 #266

p.102 #273

p.104 #285

Working my way through the whole book. Too bad someone didn't index this. I would if I could read it better.

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 4:18:05 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:

Hi Steve,

Sorry, I misread then. In the Portuguese based records, you are looking for parents named João de Souza and Maria da Silva, but I doubt she's listed that way. She'll be a Maria Religious Middle Name.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/fa2a3371-ca85-47ed-9ef4-de1db5434bc3%40googlegroups.com.

[linda]

Hi Steve,

I'll help you learn to read the passport records.   The data and vocabulary are limited; all it just takes is a little practice.

***********

Reading the Passport Lists:

Headings at the top of the page are

Passport Number;    Date (Month, Day);  Name of Bearer;   Destination

The  information for each passport holder usually includes name, marital status, occupation, birth location, and age.  It may also include additional people traveling with in the care of the main passport holder.  These may be dependent children, elderly parents; minor siblings or wives.

The passports seem mostly grouped by departing ship-- groups of passport holders all going to the same location.  In addition to place names, you will also see ditto marks such as

"

or

~ " ~

or

"Idem" which is Latin for "the same".  

It seems to me that US passengers sometimes state their final destination, such as California, or sometimes state their port of disembarkation, such as Boston.  So, I like to check all  the names on any US destination page, just in case.

**********

I believe you're looking for an immigrant to the US, so my strategy would be to first scan the destinations looking for US locations.  

Passengers on [web] pages 8, 20, 52, 53, 59, 75, 102, 104 passengers are all going to Brasil-- mostly Rio de Janeiro.

Passengers on [web] page 101 are a mixed lot. They are mostly going to Brazil; some are going directly, but some are going indirectly via Lisbon; passport number 259 is going to the US by way of Faial ["Estados Unidos da America pela ilha da Fayal"]. 

Let's look at a couple of the entries more closely.  The information generally follows a standard format.

page 101 #266:

Manuel de Sousa do Rigo
de 43 annos, casado, proprieta-
rio, natural de freguesia de S.
Sebastiao, d'esta ilha Terceira

Translation:

Manuel de Sousa do Rigo
43 years [old], property owner
native of the village of S[ao]
Sebastiao, of this island of Terceira

This Manuel de Sousa is going to Rio de Janeiro [it says "Idem" beneath "Rio de Janeiro" in the destination column], and he's too old to be your Manuel.


Page 8 #55:
 
Manoel de Sousa Bor-
ges, casado, proprietario,
natural da freguesia das
L?????, d'esta ilha, de
71 annos.

Manoel de Sousa Borges,
married, property owner
native of the village of
L?????,  of this island,
71 years [old].

This Manuel Sousa is going to Rio de Janeiro, and he's 71, so he's not your Manuel either.

You did great in identifying a list of potential Manuel de Sousas, and you'll be able to go through the pages more quickly by scanning for US destinations, then narrowing the candidates down to those who are closer in age to your target Manuel de Sousa.

If you post a few more possible candidates, I'll be happy to have a look at them and help you to narrow the list.

best of luck in your research,

Linda

[Steve Stevens]

Linda,

Thank you so much for taking the time to look at them and help me. Now I know that the numbers were age, that will help a lot. I knew the destination, but have q hard time read what it says. Since I am half way through the book, you know I will have more for you to help with. LOL! One general question, are these all the passports issued for Portugal or just the Azores or just a particular island.

Thanks again. 

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Linda,

This is so helpful for all of us.    Thank you for the explanation and the examples.     I am going to try the João Joaquim Mendonca passports to Brazil today, with your helpful advice.  Wish me luck!

Debbie Shepherd Mendonca

(jessdebmendonca at gmail.com) 

Researching:

1. LUIZ surname— including Luiz de SOUZA, PIMENTEL, Antonio CABRAL, and PEREIRA—on Sao Miguel (Sao Roque, Ponta Delgada) and North Kohala, Hawaii, Hawaii

2. Mendonca and Aguiar Surnames on Madeira (Santana, but perhaps other places); Sao Paulo, Brazil; Hawi. Hawaii, Hawaii; Oakland and San Leandro, California

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[linda]

 Hi Steve,

You're very welcome! 

To answer your question: The link Cheri provided goes directly to the records from Angra do Heroismo, Terceira.   Since the obit for your Manuel de Sousa stated that he was born in Terceira, that's the most likely place to find his passport record.  There are three sets of passport lists for the Azores, Angra (Terceira), Horta (Faial), and Ponta Delgada (Sao Miguel).  This link will allow you to select any of the three record sets:

http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/ig/passaportes/Default.aspx

Cheri's advice to get as much information out of the available US records is extremely valuable and can save a lot of time in the end.  If possible, I would follow up on the 1919 naturalization lead and make sure that it's exhausted.  Some of the actual records are viewable online.  I'd also look for Manuel's WWI draft record which would have asked for birthplace-- sometimes the info is specific to village, but often it's as general as "Portugal" :(   In addition to Ancestry.com, have you tried FamilySearch.org?  They have different strengths and I sometimes find FamilySearch to be more productive.

[linda]

Hi Debbie,

You're very welcome :)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your search today!

best of luck,

Linda

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[DonnaO]

Linda, you've helped me also.  Thank you!

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

Steve, 

Have you uploaded your DNA to FTDNA.com?  It is free.   I don’t know whether it is free to get the y-dna results, also; but I would try it.   Your Haplogroup may be a big help.   My husband’s haplogroup is apparently the most common in the world, making it less productive with matches, I believe.  

I am beginning to search Souza on Sao Miguel because I have discovered that Luiz Souza’s son began using the surname LUIZ on his wedding records [his father was deceased] in the mid 1800s.   I will keep you in mind.   

I am interested in knowing if you are only checking those who immigrated to the East Coast.  I ask, because DNA matches have shown me that an uncle most likely went to Trinidad, Barbados near the same time my husbands grandfather brought his family to Hawaii in 1898.   

I hope you’re feeling better.  

Debbie Shepherd Mendonca

(jessdebmendonca at gmail.com) 

Researching:

1. LUIZ surname— including Luiz de SOUZA, PIMENTEL, Antonio CABRAL, and PEREIRA—on Sao Miguel (Sao Roque, Ponta Delgada) and North Kohala, Hawaii, Hawaii

2. MENDONCA and AGUIAR surnames on Madeira (Santana, but perhaps other places); Sao Paulo, Brazil; Hawi, Hawaii, Hawaii; Oakland, San Leandro, and San Jose in California

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[Cheri Mello]

Autosomal DNA (AncestryDNA, My Heritage, and 23 and Me) transfer to FTDNA for free and the matching is free. The tools are $19 USD.

Y-DNA does not transfer. FTDNA is the only company that now offers Y-DNA testing. If someone tested their Y at another company a long time ago, yes, there is a conversion cost and enough markers have to be purchase to bring it up to the current standard.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050tLUpZvxc8e65VO3MkgV8VRX%2BTPg44BsVOine7PLE7iag%40mail.gmail.com.

[linda]

Donna,

I'm so pleased to hear that! 

best of luck in all your research,

:D

Linda