DNA and Azores

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Rob Whaite

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Nov 26, 2019, 1:57:54 PM11/26/19
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Hi

One of my 2nd Great Grandfather's came to South Australia in 1848.
Unfortunately most shipping lists of the time have"not survived"  to use the official term.There are some Newspaper reports but they are notoriously unreliable and misspellings abound.
He was born about 1808 and went by the name of Joseph Josephs which unfortunately was not his real name. His real name was supposed to be Du Coyte or something similar
When one of his daughter's died the obituary said that her father fought in the Crimean war which is impossible of course because he was already in Australia before that war began.
He may have fought in the Portuguese civil war as he would have been old enough.

He probably came to Australia via England. Very hard to find a name when you don't know what name to look for? He was however Portuguese and spoke very poor English.

I have had my DNA tested with Ancestry and uploaded my info To "My Heritage" FTDNA,Living DNA and Gedmatch.
Ancestry does not recognize my Portuguese ancestry although it did originally, however "My Heritage" does!!

I have been checking my Portugal matches on Ancestry and over 90% of them have an ancestor from the Azores within 3-4 generations.  I don't know how common that is in the overall Portuguese population??
I do know that Joseph was suppose to have come from an island and had a brother that went to South America,Brazil??

I know this is a bit long winded but do you think it is reasonable to assume that Joseph came from the Azores? At least at this stage?

I'm just looking for an opinion and as I have explained I have next to nothing to go on!!!

Rob




Cheri Mello

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Nov 26, 2019, 2:03:44 PM11/26/19
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Rob W,

There is no way to give you any advise without me looking at your DNA page on FTDNA. I would be a lot of guesses and nothing concrete.

Here are the join instructions:                  

Log into the FTDNA page with the kit number and password.

Across the top is says: myFTDNA, DNA Tests, Projects....Point at Projects. When the drop down menu appears, click "Join a project."

If the Azores Islands appears on the top, click the link and scroll down to the JOIN button at the end.

If the Azores Islands is not suggested, scroll down to where it says "Search by Surname" and type: azores.

When Azores Islands appears, click the link and follow the directions.    

==================

My guess is that "Du Coyte" may be "do Couto."

After you join the Azores DNA Project, I can tell you more. Otherwise, it's just some wild guesses.       

Thanks, Cheri Mello, Family Tree DNA Admin (volunteer), Azores DNA Project
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


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E. Sharp

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Nov 26, 2019, 4:47:28 PM11/26/19
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The difference of DNA tests between FTDNA and Ancestry is impossible to understand.    I traced a line very carefully.  One brother used FTDNA, his sister used  Ancestry.  FTDNA results came out very closely to my research to the 1500’s Portuguese, Italian, Croatian and English. Ancestry says mostly French....I have found no French thus far in this family???????? Go figure.  

Sent from my iPhone

Cheri Mello

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Nov 26, 2019, 5:35:19 PM11/26/19
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There's DNA tests and then there are components to the DNA tests. The DNA tests aren't too hard to differentiate:

23 and Me: Autosomal only.
AncestryDNA: Autosomal only.
Family Tree DNA (FTDNA): Y-DNA, mtDNA, and Autosomal DNA.
Living DNA: Autosomal only.
My Heritage: Autosomal only.

All companies offer autosomal. Only FTDNA offers Y-DNA and mtDNA (out of the major DNA companies for genealogy, that is).

Y-DNA traces a man's strict paternal line (his father's father's father's father line) back in time. Only this one line. To get into a genealogy time frame, one needs to purchase 37, 67, or 111 markers. There's also Big Y-700 which can place you on the tree of mankind. It's more anthropological in nature. It is beyond the paper trail. They hope is to connect beyond the paper trail and meet where surnames left off. I've seen lots of talk with new branches discovered for the tree of mankind. I haven't seen a genealogy success story yet with Big Y.

mtDNA traces anyone's strict maternal line (their mother's mother's mother's mother line) back in time. Only this one line. To get into a genealogy time frame, one needs to purchase the Full Mitochondrial Sequence test. Once the database reaches critical mass, about half of the matches may be in a genealogical time frame. It is best used in conjunction with another researcher in trying to prove a line. It's a little harder to use on its own. It can be played off of the autosomal (Family Finder) in some cases.

Autosomal DNA (FTDNA calls this its Family Finder test). This test covers the DNA of ALL ancestral lines back about 200 years before the birth of the testee. So if one was born in 1950, for example, that person has DNA in them back to 1750. You can get matches across all lines with this test. If I'm not mistaken, only 23 and Me, FTDNA, and My Heritage have the X matching component. All companies do have an ethnicity ESTIMATE as one component to their autosomal test. They run your DNA against their population samples - all of which are woefully inadequate. They've only begun to touch the surface of this part of the DNA. And no, the companies aren't going to share their population samples. Major car manufactures don't share their carburetors. One cannot put a Honda carburetor into a Ford car. It doesn't work that way. They each develop their own and so it is with the population samples for DNA.

So use the ethnicity ESTIMATES as cocktail party conversation this holiday season while you toast with a nice glass of vinho!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/3261D994-9110-48B4-BEAA-EFC14DDDE9F5%40gmail.com.

Lisa

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Nov 26, 2019, 6:20:16 PM11/26/19
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The most recent update on AncestryDNA was spot on (finally) including correctly identifying my islands:  43% Portuguese—>Azores—>Pico & Sao Jorge.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 26, 2019, at 1:47 PM, E. Sharp <belle...@gmail.com> wrote:

The difference of DNA tests between FTDNA and Ancestry is impossible to understand.    I traced a line very carefully.  One brother used FTDNA, his sister used  Ancestry.  FTDNA results came out very closely to my research to the 1500’s Portuguese, Italian, Croatian and English. Ancestry says mostly French....I have found no French thus far in this family???????? Go figure.  

JesseAndDeborah Mendonca

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Nov 26, 2019, 6:39:48 PM11/26/19
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Thanks Cheri, for the info.  My husband’s Y-37 turned out to be the most common, R-M269.  I haven’t figured out how it is helpful, yet.  


FTDNA got my husband’s locations correct, too.  Azores, São  Miguel and Madeira.   It also listed Guyana as a diaspora possibility, but not São Paulo Brazil— maybe they weren’t there long enough to establish a line there.  I was sorry locations weren’t listed a year ago when I was totally lost, lol.   But it would have ruined the satisfaction of finding São Roque on São Miguel, I guess.   

Debbie Shepherd Mendonca



Cheri Mello

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Nov 26, 2019, 8:13:27 PM11/26/19
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Ancestry uses trees for the "spot on" analysis. Imagine the poor person who has a poorly researched tree and everyone copies without verification? And they are on the wrong island(s)? People move around, so pinpointing a location is going to be close to impossible with DNA.

My dad is 50% Azorean (his paternal grandparents came from there). Therefore, I am 25%. My mother has no Portuguese in her whatsoever. She has long lines in the U.S. and based on the surnames, she's heavy English, Irish, and Scot.

image.png

My dad does get readings from Africa, probably due to the Moors and all that history. His French may be misread stuff from the Roman Empire, such as the Franks.

I find FTDNA's 33% Iberian really funny because I'm only 25%. Oh well, we'll see what the next update holds.

In the meantime, I'm going to work my matches and figure out connections that I didn't have before. That's where the whole meat of this is at right now.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/922C31CF-B0EB-4908-A40B-127A3B434F53%40aol.com.

Cheri Mello

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Nov 26, 2019, 8:17:23 PM11/26/19
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Debbie,

Your husband's R-M269 is not helpful for genealogy. However, you know where he falls on the tree of mankind.

Look at your husband's Y-DNA matches. He's got 4 decent ones (Genetic Distance of 1 or 2). Three out of the 4 people have trees and the one missing a tree is managed by the same person as match #2. Look at the trees at the Y-DNA line and compare to yours. Then email the people if you find the match :)

Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050sfESUn0%3DWaWQNvwFUSoK%3DiNeae1X4jvo%2Bd4gACHd1nsw%40mail.gmail.com.

JesseAndDeborah Mendonca

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Nov 26, 2019, 9:45:14 PM11/26/19
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Plus you can’t be 33% of your dad is only 12% Iberian, lol.   Your chart is crazy.   

Is the French possibly because of the Flemish?   Jesse had previously been tagged as more French.  

All 4 of his own grandparents immigrated to Hawaii from either São Miguel or Madeira, yet he is about 15-20% other.   He has shown to be 3-5% Ashkenazi on several estimates with Ancestry and FTDNA.  

ITS FASCINATING!

Debbie



Cheri Mello

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Nov 26, 2019, 9:49:15 PM11/26/19
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It's the French that gets misread. There was some French influence on Sao Miguel and my mom has some French as well.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050vz-%3DPKn01YgUGceCPD%3DA%2B60YYgDuzTYxA4OWOXAjKq6w%40mail.gmail.com.

Rob Whaite

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Nov 27, 2019, 11:25:50 AM11/27/19
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I would have to agree!!
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Rob Whaite

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Nov 27, 2019, 8:13:17 PM11/27/19
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Hi Cheri I joined the Azores group on FTDNA as we discussed Regards Rob

Cheri Mello

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Nov 27, 2019, 8:14:44 PM11/27/19
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Hi Rob,

I responded to you privately about your personal DNA matches.

Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Wed, Nov 27, 2019 at 5:13 PM Rob Whaite <rwha...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Cheri I joined the Azores group on FTDNA as we discussed Regards Rob

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Rob Whaite

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Nov 28, 2019, 11:39:31 AM11/28/19
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Thanks Cheri

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_FQUxzsW7OfY4QojkB%2BWr4omHpHSoNzHd47Rt3s6%2Bt0rQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Rob Whaite

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Dec 14, 2019, 8:07:51 AM12/14/19
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Hi Cheri

I have found out more about this Do Couto for Du Coyte that you so kindly suggested. Spot on, absolutely correct.

The English of course have trouble pronouncing European names and so there is a myriad of spellings. I have even seen DeKoyte.

I have some more questions but will get back to you another time.

Thanks again

Rob
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