Maria de Trindade Botelho baptism puzzle

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Kim Welch

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Oct 28, 2025, 1:18:23 PM (3 days ago) Oct 28
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Ok so I need some help figuring this out. Here is Maria’s marriage record: 2nd one 
Here’s her children:
Manoel #148 (definitely)
Jose #37 (possibly)
Joao #159 (possibly)
Joao #80 (possibly)
Maria #156 (definitely)
Antonio #59 (possibly)
Maria #92 (definitely)
Antonio #109 (definitely)
(Definite children are supported by US census records)

Now here’s three possible baptism records for Maria. 
1870 #63 - she would be 18 when 1st child was born 
1868 #138 - she would have been 20
1867 #72 - she would have been 21
I’m looking for anything that might help me figure out what one is her. I can read names, places and dates kinda. The rest I’m lost. Witnesses? God parents? Siblings? Aunts/uncles? Kim

David Furtado

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Oct 28, 2025, 1:35:21 PM (3 days ago) Oct 28
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Hi Kim,

It states she was 21 years old at the time of marriage.

they used Maria three times; my guess would be the Maria born in 1867

Maria in 1870, was the third time of the use of name Maria
Maria in 1868, was the second time of use of the name Maria
Maria in 1867 page 33 - #72  was the first Maria

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Joe Matias

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Oct 28, 2025, 2:44:07 PM (3 days ago) Oct 28
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Do you have a public tree I can view? Most of my ancestors are from Vila Franca.

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Bill Seidler

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Oct 28, 2025, 3:19:48 PM (3 days ago) Oct 28
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You gave the link for the 1868 baptism twice.  Here is the correct link for the 1867 baptism: https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1865-1869/SMG-VF-SAOMIGUEL-B-1865-1869_item1/index.html?page=184.

I agree with David about the 1867 baptism being the most likely.  None of them were 21 at the time of the marriage; but the 1867 birth was only 5 months short and it seems that she was the first Maria.

Bill Seidler

Kim Welch

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Oct 28, 2025, 4:59:16 PM (2 days ago) Oct 28
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Also this is Maria’s death certificate:


On Tue, Oct 28, 2025 at 1:35 PM David Furtado <david.fu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kim Welch

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Oct 28, 2025, 4:59:27 PM (2 days ago) Oct 28
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Yes, but my tree is on Ancestry and contains almost 13,000 people.


Don’t know if this link will work.
Kim

Kim Welch

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Oct 28, 2025, 6:43:12 PM (2 days ago) Oct 28
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Here’s 2 more baptism records for Maria with the same parents names. I know they are not my Maria but does it look like they could be siblings?

1878 #39
1881 #157

Bill Seidler

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Oct 28, 2025, 10:05:14 PM (2 days ago) Oct 28
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They have the same parents and grands so I would say yes.  The 1878 Maria says she is the fifth of that name so there is probably another Maria between 1870 and 1878.  Oddly, the Maria in 1881 says she is the first of that name which may be a mistake as she should be the sixth.  I have seen families with as many as seven Maria baptisms.  They would all have different middle or devotional names, e.g.: Maria de Jesus, Maria dos Anjos, Maria Jacinta, Maria da Graça, and many more.

The death certificate, in my opinion, further indicates the first Maria is yours.  She is the only one of the first 3 with a June birthday even though the date is 5 days off (and the year is two off).

Bill Seidler

Kim Welch

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Oct 28, 2025, 11:13:42 PM (2 days ago) Oct 28
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I just found this obit for one of the Maria’s. Can anyone tell me what one? No. 36

Cheri Mello

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Oct 28, 2025, 11:16:13 PM (2 days ago) Oct 28
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The Maria on record 36 was 3 months old.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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Kim Welch

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Oct 29, 2025, 12:28:37 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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I believe I found Maria’s parents marriage. Can anyone please translate number 3, there’s a lot I can’t make out. Also do I see that he is a widow? How old are they?

Joe Matias

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Oct 29, 2025, 4:36:34 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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the link to your tree did not work

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Kim Welch

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Oct 29, 2025, 8:28:21 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Here’s the marriage before and again he’s a widower. Left side 

Kim Welch

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Oct 29, 2025, 8:28:33 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Here’s Francisco’s first marriage in 1824, means he was 62 when my Maria was born. Left side 

Kim Welch

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Oct 29, 2025, 8:28:44 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Just found his second wife Violante’s obituary. Can this tell me anything new?
Top right 

Kim Welch

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Oct 29, 2025, 8:28:54 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Is this his first wife? Confused about middle name, Jacintha? Or Felicia?
Top left 

Cheri Mello

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Oct 29, 2025, 8:31:28 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Violante was 53 and received the sacraments.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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Bill Seidler

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Oct 29, 2025, 10:07:50 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Violante was also from unknown parents, left no children, and was native of São Roque, Pico.  As for Anna, sometimes people had multiple middle names or changing middle names.  I am sure Anna Felicia and Anna Jacinta are the same person.

On his last marriage he is 61 and she is 24 and has her father's consent to marry.  Amazing that he had at least 5 kids over the next 15 years, the last we know of in 1881 when he would have been 77 years old.  He had no kids with his second wife but he was married to his first wife for 35 years.  They likely had children.  Also interesting that at 19 he was married to a 24-year-old.  At 61, he was again married to a 24-year-old.

Bill Seidler

Kim Welch

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Oct 29, 2025, 11:59:12 AM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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Francisco has a son Francisco born 1875. Could this be his obituary? His mother is Maria Conceicao but this has Anna Conceicao. Could it be pastor mistake? Or is it a totally different person? No. 48

Bill Seidler

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Oct 29, 2025, 12:47:54 PM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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I don't think so.  I think this Francisco's parents are Francisco Rabello, sailor, and Anna da Conceição.  He was also 60 years old so would have been born around 1939.

Cheri Mello

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Oct 29, 2025, 1:44:48 PM (2 days ago) Oct 29
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He was 60, involved in maritime and married to Maria de Jesus. You need to find his marriage to this Maria and all his kids to compare his parents. 

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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