Primeira d’este

64 views
Skip to first unread message

Jesse Mendonca

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 9:17:29 AM7/21/19
to Azores Genealogy
Hello,

I keep coming upon the term, primeira d’este, on baptismal records. It’s right after filho/a legitimo/a de...

...sometimes it says 2nd or 3rd.

What is that referring to? I’m hoping it means firstborn, etc.

Thank you,
Debbie Shepherd Mendonca

Cheri Mello

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 9:27:47 AM7/21/19
to Azores Genealogy
Hi Debbie,
Primeiro is masculine and primeira is feminine. D' is a contraction for "de" meaning of. Este means this. So the phrase is "first of this," many times followed by nome (name). When a family has multiple Marias, you will see them letting you know if it's Maria #1, 2, or 3. They could all be alive. The boys, however, weren't multiples. So if you see a Manuel, first of the name, then see a Manuel, 2nd of the name, the 1st one has died. Yes, someone on this list has found 2 Manuels, both married and had kids. However, I'd say that was pretty rare. So generally, the first boy has died. Cheri


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/755de450-787a-43f1-b801-a0d0c1c1d22e%40googlegroups.com.

Kathy Cardoza

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 11:19:15 AM7/21/19
to Azores Google Group
Cheri

I’m sure you’re right but I am someone that has two Manuels, both lived, and had families…… Not sure if I’m the example you mentioned or not? When I first discovered this, I assumed the first Manuel had died. I knew the second Manuel had lived …. he married the sister of his oldest brother, Francisco, so I never researched that first Manuel. Eventually, after being contacted by another researcher, we realized that HER Manuel was the first one in the family, the one I had assumed had died. (He had changed his last name to Rodgers, possibly to distinguish him from his brother.) This was proven, by the way, with, among other things, his obituary that listed all his siblings, including my Francisco Pereira da Rosa! Pretty exciting and a reminder to all of us to keep an open mind and make no assumptions without proving or disproving them. Oh, also, this family had two Maria Delfinas! Thanks a lot, da Rosas, lol. I have never seen this in any other of my families with Manuels.

Kathy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Visit the Azores GenWeb Project:
http://www.worldgenweb.org/azrwgw/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


doreen...@gmail.com

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 6:26:13 PM7/21/19
to azo...@googlegroups.com

I remember research two brothers with same name but they had very different surnames. In fact it was hard to tied the one to the family except It was mentioned in a baptism as a brother. That’s when I knew I had been overlooking this one thinking I did not know how to place him in a tree. It is also confusing because the men ( in certain families) change their surnames at a certain point in their lives. This is why I started to create a timeline to locate when the name changes so maybe I can note why. Still working on that one.

One thing I work every hard at doing is trying to connect godparents with their families in my tree. I wish I was better at reading Portuguese because I think the witnesses at weddings would also hold valuable information for making connections and completing family groups. I thank God for this group to help with the reading of the records.

 

I would love to have a discussion with people who are more skilled then I am to see if what I’m thinking might have some merit or am I just wasting my time.

Have a great day.

Doreen

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.

Altino Demelo

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 7:37:18 PM7/21/19
to azo...@googlegroups.com
Jesse, what primeiro d’este refers to translates to “first of” or first child born with this name. Sometimes children died and the subsequent child was given the same name. Additionally, some girls were baptized as Maria, but they might have multiple Maria’s. Eg. Maria did Anjos, Maria José, Maria de Conceição, so you can see why the priest expands upon the number of children the couple has by numbering.

Sent from my iPhone

JesseAndDeborah Mendonca

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 10:03:36 PM7/21/19
to azo...@googlegroups.com
I was so hoping it meant I finally found their first child, lol. :)  I will hunt obits, now for lists of all the children.   Thank you both for all of the help in SLC!

Thanks. 

Debbie



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.

Cheri Mello

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 10:10:29 PM7/21/19
to Azores Genealogy
Kathy,

I thought it was Rick Pimentel who had a couple of Manuels who both lived. I think it's pretty rare, but it did happen. On the boys, I'd check the obits for the older son first before scouring the marriages for the older son.

Debbie, the *general* rule that is taught is the birth of the first kid is 2 years after marriage. I start the day after the marriage and go from there. If I don't find any for a couple of years, then I figure I can go forward collecting the kids. If I find the bride and groom had a dispensation though, I look a couple of years before their marriage. They may have had to wait for the dispensation so they started their family in the meantime. That's just my method.  Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050uMsMrJS8%3DFU3v9%2Bwf4yRq2ppuVNAerU2rwzn6_x-GOXw%40mail.gmail.com.

Rosemarie Capodicci

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 11:04:07 PM7/21/19
to azo...@googlegroups.com
You are welcome, Debbie! It was fun meeting you and others that we 'talk'to on the list and on FB! You are doing well with the docs, just keep at it. 

Rosemarie
Researching Sao Jorge, Terceira, Graciosa, Faial and Pico, Azores,
Isola delle Femmine, Sant' Elia, Sicily


On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 7:03 PM JesseAndDeborah Mendonca <jessdeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAJ7050uMsMrJS8%3DFU3v9%2Bwf4yRq2ppuVNAerU2rwzn6_x-GOXw%40mail.gmail.com.

Cheri Mello

unread,
Jul 21, 2019, 11:09:05 PM7/21/19
to Azores Genealogy
Yes, I enjoyed meeting you too Debbie, as well as other list members!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKnzR7nvkm7X_x6cEtyzpzDoDXVsT35qHxtwKB%2BcMMcTPwrhXQ%40mail.gmail.com.

linda

unread,
Jul 22, 2019, 12:02:39 PM7/22/19
to Azores Genealogy
I have a case in which two boys were both named Manuel and both survived into adulthood. They were born on Flores in the later part of the 19th century into a family with numerous children. One seems to have gone simply by “Manuel”, the other (perhaps the younger?) by a compound name. I don’t have access to my genealogy files today— apologies for the lack of specific detail.

Doreen: I keep a eye on the godparents and witnesses too :)

Linda

Richard Francis Pimentel

unread,
Jul 25, 2019, 7:16:26 AM7/25/19
to azo...@googlegroups.com

Yes as I recall it was twins that were both named Manuel. I searched obits for a period after and did not find one for either of them. So apparently the intention of the parents was to name both of them Manuel.

 

Rick

 

From: azo...@googlegroups.com <azo...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Cheri Mello
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:10 PM
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Primeira d’este

 

Kathy,

lunamarc

unread,
Aug 2, 2019, 10:01:26 PM8/2/19
to Azores Genealogy
Hi Doreen,

I totally agree about the godparents. They can be parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, and who knows the possible pai incognito? In other words, dna proved daddy was not daddy....

But yes, definitely worth noting. I've been gleaning that on my own relatives for sure.

Maria (only one of me in my family) ;)

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azo...@googlegroups.com.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages