Questions on Madeira Records and Hawaiian Records

[Dennis Munise]

I have a few questions on where to find various records for a person I'm trying to get information on.  I'm trying to trace my great grandfather's Moniz (possibly Cordeiro) line and I have an Ancestry DNA match to someone who does not match to people in my great grand mother's line.  I'm hoping that this person may hold some clues to my Moniz ancestors.  Unfortunately my match's tree is not built out past the below info so I'm trying to do some work here.

The oldest record he has is the birth and baptism of a Manuel Moniz in Hawaii in 1898 (see below).  I'm trying to get info on his parents Francisco Moniz and Maria Rosario Resentes, however I cannot find Manuel's birth record or Francisco and Maria's immigration records, and I can't find them in the census.

I'm familiar with where to find the Azores passport and baptismal record images, but where are the images for Madeira?  I used the search tool but I'm not seeing where to go to so I can find the relevant passport record and ultimately find a baptismal/birth record.  Below is what comes up on the Madeira site:

If I'm reading that correctly, Francisco is originally from Faial, so I'd like to see if there is ultimately any link to Sao Miguel or if any of his relatives moved there.  I don't know if these are the individuals I'm looking for since the baptismal record indicates a different last name than Maria's parents listed on the passport record.  Interestingly, Manuel (the son of Francisco and Maria) married a Vasconcelos so maybe the family ties are there.  

So where I'm at is I'm trying to figure out a.) Are there Hawaiian resources not found on Ancestry or Family Search (specifically the birth or census) and b.) where can I find the Madeira passport records so I can get Francisco and Maria's ages and hopefully trace them back to their origins?

Thanks in advance.  Hopefully this message isn't too "all over the place" but if you have any questions, please let me know!

[Nelson A]

Hi Dennis,

I find your information interesting. I have a lot of Dinir(s) in my line, but they are mainly from Terceira, Azores with others from the other 8 islands. If you have gotten that far back and want to check other relatives, let me know.

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[TERESA Phillips]

The portuguese genealogy society on Oahu has lots information - don't have contact info but you can google them. Maui has a Portuguese Society but I haven't found them very helpful. Their focus seems to be preserving lifestyle not so much facts. But, that may have changed now they've built a center. I have a who's who book of Maui. It may be Saturday before I can check it for you (we're getting ready for back to school next week and they just finished putting the new carpet down - long days putting classroom back together). People had to pay to be in it so is hit and miss. But there is a little bio if they are in it (psrents names,  etc).

Cencuses are also hit and miss on Maui. As Manuel was born in Spreckelsville, I'd start there. However, that doesn't mean they lived there. (My husbands family lived in Makawao but he was born at the sugar mill nurses station in Pu'unene - didn't make it to hospital). If you can't find them in Spreckelsville, try the Corn Camp next. That was a Portugese camp. For many of my husbands family, I spent many hours going through every census record to find them. Finding them helped piece stories and families together.

I can also look on Sat to see if names match up. Better half had an aunt marry into family that was a Moniz (Minnie). Long shot, but Maui was a very small island during the time period you are researching- your names sound familiar. Either that or it's because they all used the same names. 😆

Teresa

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From: azo...@googlegroups.com <azo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Dennis Munise <djmu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, August 1, 2022 8:27:53 PM
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Questions on Madeira Records and Hawaiian Records

 

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Dennis,

I'm not too sure why you are jumping over to Madeira. There's nothing in the baptism to indicate Madeira.

What is on that certificate is an abstract of what is in the baptism book. Contact that church in HI and ask if that baptism states where the parents were from.

Your questions:

a.) Are there Hawaiian resources not found on Ancestry or Family Search (specifically the birth or census) ?

Head over to yourislandroutes.com. Melody Lassalle has a few extra sources there. She may know of more if you email her at island...@gmail.com (I've also copied her on this email).

b.) where can I find the Madeira passport records so I can get Francisco and Maria's ages and hopefully trace them back to their origins?

Tombo.pt links everything except Cape Verde. Start here: https://tombo.pt/en/d/madeira

The Portuguese Genealogical and Historical Society of Hawaii has a web site here:

https://www.portuguesegenealogicalandhistoricalsocietyofhawaii.com/

I checked the Knowlton and the De Mello Portuguese to HI immigration books and did not find Francisco and Maria. They may have immigrated after the time period. I check the Portuguese Hawaiian Memories book and there's A Francisco Jose Moniz on the island of Oahu (wrong island) who was from Madeira and he married Maria de Jesus Vasconcellos, also of Madeira. The book matches what you pulled up on your "Madeira site." (ABM??) It's not the right couple.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Dennis Munise]

Ahh ok, thank you.  Regarding Madeira - my DNA match (Francisco's great grandson) said his family was from Madeira, so I went on the Madeira passport search website and found Francisco Moniz and Maria Vasconcellos but I agree I don't think they're the ones I'm looking for.  And who knows we could be related somewhere else along the line.  This match is the only one who a.) we don't share matches from my Ventura (g-grandmother's) side and b.) has a tree on Ancestry.  I take what my DNA match said with a grain of salt because he has no proof that the family was, indeed, from Madeira.  I was simply trying to suss it out.

a.)  Thank you for the reference there.  I will see if I can dig up anything.  I have found Manuel in the census, but no record of his birth or record of his parent's immigration.  I'll check out yourislandroutes.

b.)  The tombo link takes me to the page that I used to search (pic in original post).  I was looking to see if Madeira had passport images like I've seen from Ponta Delgada.  I was hoping to find an age and ultimately a birth record.  Might be moot in this case if it's not the person I'm looking for.

Thanks again!

[Cheri Mello]

Click on the Tombo link and then Passaportes. It links you to the ABM (Arquivo e Biblioteca de Madeira). That's their CCA.

https://abm.madeira.gov.pt/pesquisa/passaportes/

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/3c774b3f-192b-4b94-aa9d-87c5b63777efn%40googlegroups.com.

[Joseph Mendonca]

Hello Dennis,

I found this passenger record on the Hawaii Digital Archives which looks promising.  At least it matches the names of the parents on that baptism certificate.  The passenger card has a name spelling variation of Muniz.

https://digitalcollections.hawaii.gov/greenstone3/sites/localsite/collect/indextop/index/assoc/HASHc256/85c76f9a.dir/doc.pdf

From here you can hopefully follow it back to the Ponta Delgada passport records.  As an FYI, the ship Hansa took about 53 days from Sao Miguel, and it had previously been in Lisbon where there was a well documented controversy regarding its departure.

Here is some further info on that controversy:

http://www.yourislandroutes.com/description-of-the-voyage-of-the-s-s-hansa-to-hawaii-1882/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKUUw_E4S5hXV%2Bmk7xa34vbaeweH7dH24bc_mT7tsS39HZOSTA%40mail.gmail.com.

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Joseph Mendonca

[Joseph Mendonca]

Please disregard my previous reply.  I mistakenly mixed up the child (Manuel) and the father's name (Francisco).  

--

Joseph Mendonca

[Dennis Munise]

An update here - I can disregard the Madeira portion of my request but I'm still struggling to find the Hawaiian records.  I found the marriage record of my DNA match's grandparents and the Moniz line is, in fact, from Sao Miguel as I had hoped.  The groom's parents are Frank (Francisco) Moniz and Mary (Maria) Rezentes (Resendes, etc.).  See image below:

So now on to Frank and Mary and hopefully information leading back to Azores.  As I said (from my limited experience) some Hawaiian records seem to be missing.  I did find this record on familysearch.org and I believe this to be the wedding record of Frank and Mary.  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FW8W-Q2X.  Unfortunately, Family search doesn't have an image, Ancestry's wedding records for Wailuku are missing for this period, and I cannot find record of this on the Ulukua site.  The information on Family Search came from somewhere but how do I get back to that record?

Has anyone else run into this when looking up Hawaiian records?  Just wondering where I should be looking next.

Thanks!

[Cheri Mello]

Dennis,

When you click on the FamilySearch link about the marriage, then click on the link on left about the record collection, you get this:

So you have to order the microfilm copy from your local FHC (or affiliate), go to SLC and look at the microfilm, or find someone in SLC who will look it up for you.

I'll check the Knowlton and DeMello books again for Francisco Moniz and Maria Resende(s) going to HI later this afternoon. Maybe someone will beat me to it.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/02096012-9a19-4f38-8c33-2286e9f40a5en%40googlegroups.com.

[Dennis Munise]

Interesting, thank you.  There's a local FHC about 10 minutes from me.  I never even knew about this.

They have been "closed" since Covid but I'll email them and see if they can assist.

Thank you again!

[Cheri Mello]

In the Knowlton book, page 295, I found this as the closest.

Moniz, Francisco age 25, came on Hansa in 1883 with Maria de Jesus age 23 his wife, and children Maria 2 and Jesuina 1.

No idea if it's a match for your couple or just a red herring.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/4badf1da-1692-4557-a75b-f769801e8dben%40googlegroups.com.

[Boyd McKee Kitchen]

I think our FHC (Vernal, Utah) is open, so if you need me to order a film and search it, I'd be happy to help too.

Boyd Kitchen

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/4badf1da-1692-4557-a75b-f769801e8dben%40googlegroups.com.

[TERESA Phillips]

I'm not positive it's in every FHC, but I believe you no longer need to order films. You should be able to access the images from any FHC directly on their computers. It has to be their computer, not just yours in the facility.

Many FHC are opening by appointment only, so double check - you may get lucky.

Teresa

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From: azo...@googlegroups.com <azo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Boyd McKee Kitchen <boyd.ki...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2022 5:14:16 PM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Questions on Madeira Records and Hawaiian Records

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/CAKv1N73En4J4QtsKfrFbF9KH6f0NvseArfyeEcHtWtUM89ofLg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dennis Munise]

Hi all, just wanted to dig up this old thread of mine.  I hadn't revisited this but a big thank you to Boyd who was able to get me the marriage info way back in August.

I have had some free time and am getting back on my research, and back to this.  Are the Ponta Delgada passport records missing for 1884-1893?  There is a gap on the website.  Are they archived somewhere else or is that book missing in its entirety?

I wanted to look for Manuel Moniz who came over in 1892 (according to 2 census).

Thanks!

[Cheri Mello]

Sadly, the book is missing in its entirety :( That's why the Bob De Mello book to Hawaii stops in 1883. That passaporte book was missing back then too (I think Bob did his book in the 1980s).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/fa980f8c-1698-445d-a4da-8416c0dd42fan%40googlegroups.com.