Bartolomeu Afonso x Maria Rodovalho circa 1680s, Relva, Ponta Delgada

[Carlos Melo]

Hi,

I am looking for the marriage record of Bartolomeu Afonso and Maria Rodovalho, parents of Domingos Afonso, born on February 6, 1689, in Relva, Ponta Delgada:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1719-1726/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-B-1719-1726_item1/index.html?page=53

I cannot find their marriage record in Relva or Sao Jose, Ponta Delgada. They are mentioned in Rodrigo Rodrigues' book as the parents of Manuel Cordeiro, who married Ana de Benevides on December 19, 1709. I think that they had a daughter  named Maria Cordeiro, so I am guessing that one of the grandparents was Cordeiro. 

If anyone has more information on this couple, I'd appreciate your help. 

The marriage records in Relva start from 1673, so I don't think that's the problem.

Thanks,

Carlos

[David Furtado]

Hi Carlos,

I have all the Relva marriages on a database from 1674-1800 and I could not your couple?

David Furtado 

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[Carlos Melo]

Hi David,

Thanks for confirming. I sent this message because I was hoping they married in another parish, but I have no clues from other (baptism and death) records. Is it worth giving it a shot?

For weeks now, I have been looking for another marriage between Relva parishioners in neighbouring parishes, to no avail. It's the marriage of Antonio de Medeiros e Maria Cordeiro, who had children in Relva between 1721 (Maria) and 1742 (Gaspar). In the birth records, the priest states that they are both from Relva. Nevertheless, I search for their marriage record in Candelaria, Ginetes, Sao Jose, Sao Sebastiao, Sao Pedro, and a couple other parishes with no luck. Then, I found that someone else had done an even thorougher search and also failed to find this record:

https://gw.geneanet.org/manu842?lang=en&iz=0&p=antonio&n=de+medeiros

Is it possible that these couples never got married and just baptised their children? Did the priest record the marriages in another ledger because they were, perhaps, cousins?

Thanks,

Carlos

[David Furtado]

Hi Carlos,

I have Antonia de Medeiros/ Maria Cordeiro in my tree

I believe they got married on May 22, 1719, #49 in Relva 

And the reason why I believe this is

There are no children from Antonio de Sousa and Maria Cordeiro -they are the couple married in 1719

They have to be one and the same ?

Of course, this is just my theory 

Dave F

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[Carlos Melo]

Hi David,

I think you're right; Occam's razor. 

The reason why I had my doubts from the beginning is that both Antonio and Maria were born in Relva, as stated in the birth records of their children, starting from their first-born, Maria:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-RELVA-B-1715-1726/SMG-PD-RELVA-B-1715-1726_item1/index.html?page=214

In this marriage record, Antonio de Sousa is from Candelaria:

https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-RELVA-C-1708-1732/SMG-PD-RELVA-C-1708-1732_item1/index.html?page=49

So far, I've never seen a priest make a mistake about parishes. 

But then I remembered that Antonio could have been born in ("natural de") Relva and baptized ("batizado em") in Candelaria. And one of Antonio's grandparents may be Medeiros, and he started using a different surname after getting married. 

I guess I was stuck on the Godparents theory. I listed all their children's Godparents:

Maria = Antonio Raposo e Maria Ferreira

Jose = Manuel de Oliveira e Teresa de Medeiros (Vasconcellos)

Manuel = Manuel de Sousa Benevides e Victoria Cordeiro

Antonia = Antonio Cordeiro e Isabel Cordeiro, filhos de Domingos de Oliveira de Vasconcellos

Joao = Francisco de Sousa, filho de Maria Moniz (married to Manuel Cordeiro de Vasconcellos, based on my research)

Francisco = Antonio de Sousa, filho de Maria Moniz (same)

Gaspar = Domingos de Oliveira e Antonia de Sao Jose, filhos de Domingos de Oliveira de Vasconcellos. Testemunhas: Manuel de Almeida Medeiros e Manuel Ferreira. 

Domingos de Oliveira de Vasconcellos and Maria de Rodovalho were the parents of Domingos de Oliveira de Vasconcellos ou de Teve married to Barbara Ferreira on 30.11.1697, in Relva. Domingos and Barbara were the parents of Isabel Cordeiro, Barbara Ferreira, Domingos de Oliveira Vasconcellos, Antonia de Sao Jose, e Antonio Cordeiro, who got married to Mariana Rosa on 17.10.1742.

I strongly suspected that Maria de Cordeiro was the first-born child of Domingos de Oliveira de Vasconcellos and Maria de Rodovalho, so her younger siblings were the Godparents of her younger children. 

But then I realised that Maria de Cordeiro could also be the daughter of Isabel de Cordeiro, Manuel de Sousa Benevides and Victoria Ferreira's child who died a couple of years before he did, as stated in his will. If so, Barbara Ferreira was Maria de Cordeiro's aunt. 

(1) Barbara Ferreira was the daughter of Manuel de Sousa Benevides and Victoria Ferreira, who had many other children, including (2) Francisco, (3) Jose, (4) Manuel e (5) Maria de Sousa Benevides, (6) Domingos de Sousa Benevides who married Teresa Cordeiro and (7) Isabel Cordeiro, who had four children.

I strongly suspected that Maria de Cordeiro was the daughter of Isabel Cordeiro and granddaughter of Manuel de Sousa Benevides and Victoria Ferreira. 

But, going back to Occam's razor, maybe the marriage record was right there all along and I was overthinking this.

Assuming that we have the right marriage record (the timing makes sense):

Antonio de Sousa is the son of  Francisco de Oliveira e Barbora de Sousa.

Maria Cordeiro is the daughter of Antonio de Almeida e Maria de Benevides.

I'll give it a shot.

Cheers,

Carlos