Crossbar.io & PHP
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Jason Yates
Jul 8, 2014, 10:04:14 AM7/8/14
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Hi All,
We have a current setup in production using Ratchet PHP, ZeroMQ & Autobahn JS however it's WAMPv1 and we have issues with Autobahn loosing connection, especially in Chrome (I posted a few days back).
Recently, I've been investigating crossbar.io and have a few of the examples setup. But i'm wondering if what I'm attempting to do is feesible with crossbar?
Our production setup at the moment revolves around a number of internal PHP components that push messages to our Ratchet installation along with a topic identifier. External clients then connect with AutobahnJS and Subscribe only to various topics. We don't accept any Publish messages from external clients.
What would be the best way to replicate this with crossbar?
Thanks
Tobias Oberstein
Jul 8, 2014, 10:42:26 AM7/8/14
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Hi Jason,
Am 08.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Hi All,
>
> We have a current setup in production using Ratchet PHP, ZeroMQ &
> Autobahn JS however it's WAMPv1 and we have issues with Autobahn loosing
> connection, especially in Chrome (I posted a few days back).
>
> Recently, I've been investigating crossbar.io and have a few of the
> examples setup. But i'm wondering if what I'm attempting to do is
> feesible with crossbar?
Absolutely. This is 1 scenario that we want to support with Crossbar:
JS/Browser + all backend components in PHP.
Crossbar will also be happy to start/monitor your PHP components, but
it's not a requirement. You can start them also yourself (e.g. using OS
boot scripts etc).
>
> Our production setup at the moment revolves around a number of internal
> PHP components that push messages to our Ratchet installation along with
> a topic identifier. External clients then connect with AutobahnJS and
There are 2 options here:
You can have the PHP application components use Thruway
(https://github.com/voryx/Thruway) to hook them up via WAMP2 to
Crossbar. This allows you to use all 4 interactions in your PHP
component (call/register/publish/subscribe).
You can also use the "HTTP Push Bridge" built into Crossbar. Using this,
you can publish events by doing a plain old HTTP/POST.
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/wiki/HTTP-Pusher-Service
E.g. this can be used when PHP runs not under React, but say plain old
mod_php. But it's "publish-only" (no call/register/subscribe).
> Subscribe only to various topics. We don't accept any Publish messages
> from external clients.
Please see:
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/wiki/Authorization
The simple static authorization would be enough in your use case:
Have the browsers connect with role "frontend" and only be allowed to
subscribe. Have the backend components connect as role "backend" with
extended permissions.
NOTE: Above authorization feature is not yet implemented in Crossbar -
it's high prio, but not yet here _today_.
>
> What would be the best way to replicate this with crossbar?
Implementing your PHP app components via Thruway will give you the most
flexibility / power. If you only ever need "push", using the HTTP Push
Bridge is also fine.
Hope this helps .. feel free to ask more!
/Tobias
>
> Thanks
>
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Am 08.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Hi All,
>
> We have a current setup in production using Ratchet PHP, ZeroMQ &
> Autobahn JS however it's WAMPv1 and we have issues with Autobahn loosing
> connection, especially in Chrome (I posted a few days back).
>
> Recently, I've been investigating crossbar.io and have a few of the
> examples setup. But i'm wondering if what I'm attempting to do is
> feesible with crossbar?
JS/Browser + all backend components in PHP.
Crossbar will also be happy to start/monitor your PHP components, but
it's not a requirement. You can start them also yourself (e.g. using OS
boot scripts etc).
>
> Our production setup at the moment revolves around a number of internal
> PHP components that push messages to our Ratchet installation along with
> a topic identifier. External clients then connect with AutobahnJS and
You can have the PHP application components use Thruway
(https://github.com/voryx/Thruway) to hook them up via WAMP2 to
Crossbar. This allows you to use all 4 interactions in your PHP
component (call/register/publish/subscribe).
You can also use the "HTTP Push Bridge" built into Crossbar. Using this,
you can publish events by doing a plain old HTTP/POST.
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/wiki/HTTP-Pusher-Service
E.g. this can be used when PHP runs not under React, but say plain old
mod_php. But it's "publish-only" (no call/register/subscribe).
> Subscribe only to various topics. We don't accept any Publish messages
> from external clients.
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/wiki/Authorization
The simple static authorization would be enough in your use case:
Have the browsers connect with role "frontend" and only be allowed to
subscribe. Have the backend components connect as role "backend" with
extended permissions.
NOTE: Above authorization feature is not yet implemented in Crossbar -
it's high prio, but not yet here _today_.
>
> What would be the best way to replicate this with crossbar?
flexibility / power. If you only ever need "push", using the HTTP Push
Bridge is also fine.
Hope this helps .. feel free to ask more!
/Tobias
>
> Thanks
>
> --
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Jason Yates
Jul 8, 2014, 10:52:13 AM7/8/14
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Tobias,
Thanks for the fast response!
The HTTP Push Bridge sounds perfect for what we need, our internal components only need to push data out to clients.
Is there any other option for the frontend clients to block them publishing? Our clients have no need at all to ever publish messages, they simply listen for updates. Whilst I can obviously not include any frontend code for publishing, it doesn't stop a malicious user from hacking around and managing it. It's kind of a killer feature for us.
I may have missed a section of the documentation, but do you have any performance stats? We push around 10 messages a second at peak and we have huge issues with Ratchet at AutobahnJS (WAMPv1) and clients disconnecting and having to refresh. Crossbar seems a far more robust solution so I'm hoping it will give us a huge boost in performance.
Thanks
> <mailto:autobahnws+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.
Tobias Oberstein
Jul 8, 2014, 11:08:20 AM7/8/14
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Jason,
Am 08.07.2014 16:52, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Tobias,
>
> Thanks for the fast response!
>
> The HTTP Push Bridge sounds perfect for what we need, our internal
> components only need to push data out to clients.
Alright. Then it'll only get easier for you, since you don't need any
kind of WAMP implementation in your PHP at all!
>
> Is there any other option for the frontend clients to block them
> publishing? Our clients have no need at all to ever publish messages,
Not today. As mentioned, implementing the authorization scheme as
outlined in Crossbar is high prio. We are resource constrained. If you
really need it urgently, you can throw money at us and you'll have it in
a week (yes, we do need to eat also;)
> they simply listen for updates. Whilst I can obviously not include any
> frontend code for publishing, it doesn't stop a malicious user from
> hacking around and managing it. It's kind of a killer feature for us.
I perfectly understand the need for this authorization .. no question.
>
> I may have missed a section of the documentation, but do you have any
> performance stats? We push around 10 messages a second at peak and we
10/sec .. that's .. nothing;)
Crossbar will dispatch like
"1,000 PubSub events/sec with 32+ bytes payload to 1,000 subscribers
with average latency of 25 ms at a CPU load of 65%."
on a RaspberryPi!
http://tavendo.com/blog/post/autobahn-pi-benchmark/
> have huge issues with Ratchet at AutobahnJS (WAMPv1) and clients
> disconnecting and having to refresh. Crossbar seems a far more robust
> solution so I'm hoping it will give us a huge boost in performance.
I'd expect that. Yes. Running Crossbar on any kind of small x86 server
thing under PyPy/Twisted will go a looong way before you run into
performance issues.
Given that we will have scale-out to multiple nodes with Crossbar also,
you have "piece in mind" even then. But I doubt you need that for the
numbers you push.
It's often underestimated what efficiently designed networking software
can do when running on modern hardware .. a single Xeon core has so much
steam that it's often able to saturate a 10GbE link ..
Cheers,
/Tobias
>
> Thanks
>
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:42:26 PM UTC+1, Tobias Oberstein wrote:
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Am 08.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Jason Yates:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We have a current setup in production using Ratchet PHP, ZeroMQ &
> > Autobahn JS however it's WAMPv1 and we have issues with Autobahn
> loosing
> > connection, especially in Chrome (I posted a few days back).
> >
> > Recently, I've been investigating crossbar.io
> <http://crossbar.io> and have a few of the
> > an email to autobahnws+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
> > <mailto:autobahnws+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>.
> > <mailto:autob...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/autobahnws/0a1440de-7b5f-42fe-a8a4-075c10d2c3cf%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
Am 08.07.2014 16:52, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Tobias,
>
> Thanks for the fast response!
>
> The HTTP Push Bridge sounds perfect for what we need, our internal
> components only need to push data out to clients.
kind of WAMP implementation in your PHP at all!
>
> Is there any other option for the frontend clients to block them
> publishing? Our clients have no need at all to ever publish messages,
outlined in Crossbar is high prio. We are resource constrained. If you
really need it urgently, you can throw money at us and you'll have it in
a week (yes, we do need to eat also;)
> they simply listen for updates. Whilst I can obviously not include any
> frontend code for publishing, it doesn't stop a malicious user from
> hacking around and managing it. It's kind of a killer feature for us.
>
> I may have missed a section of the documentation, but do you have any
> performance stats? We push around 10 messages a second at peak and we
Crossbar will dispatch like
"1,000 PubSub events/sec with 32+ bytes payload to 1,000 subscribers
with average latency of 25 ms at a CPU load of 65%."
on a RaspberryPi!
http://tavendo.com/blog/post/autobahn-pi-benchmark/
> have huge issues with Ratchet at AutobahnJS (WAMPv1) and clients
> disconnecting and having to refresh. Crossbar seems a far more robust
> solution so I'm hoping it will give us a huge boost in performance.
thing under PyPy/Twisted will go a looong way before you run into
performance issues.
Given that we will have scale-out to multiple nodes with Crossbar also,
you have "piece in mind" even then. But I doubt you need that for the
numbers you push.
It's often underestimated what efficiently designed networking software
can do when running on modern hardware .. a single Xeon core has so much
steam that it's often able to saturate a 10GbE link ..
Cheers,
/Tobias
>
> Thanks
>
> On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:42:26 PM UTC+1, Tobias Oberstein wrote:
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Am 08.07.2014 16:04, schrieb Jason Yates:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We have a current setup in production using Ratchet PHP, ZeroMQ &
> > Autobahn JS however it's WAMPv1 and we have issues with Autobahn
> loosing
> > connection, especially in Chrome (I posted a few days back).
> >
> > Recently, I've been investigating crossbar.io
> > examples setup. But i'm wondering if what I'm attempting to do is
> > feesible with crossbar?
>
> Absolutely. This is 1 scenario that we want to support with Crossbar:
> JS/Browser + all backend components in PHP.
>
> Crossbar will also be happy to start/monitor your PHP components, but
> it's not a requirement. You can start them also yourself (e.g. using OS
> boot scripts etc).
>
> >
> > Our production setup at the moment revolves around a number of
> internal
> > PHP components that push messages to our Ratchet installation
> along with
> > a topic identifier. External clients then connect with AutobahnJS
> and
>
> There are 2 options here:
>
> You can have the PHP application components use Thruway
> (https://github.com/voryx/Thruway
> <https://github.com/voryx/Thruway>) to hook them up via WAMP2 to
> > feesible with crossbar?
>
> Absolutely. This is 1 scenario that we want to support with Crossbar:
> JS/Browser + all backend components in PHP.
>
> Crossbar will also be happy to start/monitor your PHP components, but
> it's not a requirement. You can start them also yourself (e.g. using OS
> boot scripts etc).
>
> >
> > Our production setup at the moment revolves around a number of
> internal
> > PHP components that push messages to our Ratchet installation
> along with
> > a topic identifier. External clients then connect with AutobahnJS
> and
>
> There are 2 options here:
>
> You can have the PHP application components use Thruway
> (https://github.com/voryx/Thruway
> > <mailto:autobahnws+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>.
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Jason Yates
Jul 8, 2014, 11:32:24 AM7/8/14
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Hi Tobias,
Do you have an email address I can contact you on regarding having the authorization component included ASAP?
I've managed to get a basic development environment setup with the HTTP pusher already and so far it seems to work well. The only other issue I have at the moment (besides authorization) is that I don't need crossbar to serve any content but it appears I have to have the web part active. Short of just serving an empty index.html, is there any other way to disable it?
Thanks
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Tobias Oberstein
Jul 8, 2014, 11:44:56 AM7/8/14
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Am 08.07.2014 17:32, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Hi Tobias,
>
> Do you have an email address I can contact you on regarding having
> the authorization component included ASAP?
Please contact me at: tobias dot oberstein at tavendo dot de
> Hi Tobias,
>
> Do you have an email address I can contact you on regarding having
> the authorization component included ASAP?
>
> I've managed to get a basic development environment setup with the HTTP
> pusher already and so far it seems to work well. The only other issue I
> have at the moment (besides authorization) is that I don't need crossbar
> to serve any content but it appears I have to have the web part active.
Crossbar starts a static Web server also. That's not required for the
bridge.
> Short of just serving an empty index.html, is there any other way to
> disable it?
(https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/issues/88), which is trivial - I
do that later right away.
Then you can just run the HTTP bridge and nothing else.
/Tobias
>
> Thanks
>
> <javascript:> <javascript:>>.
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Tobias Oberstein
Jul 8, 2014, 12:46:08 PM7/8/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
> pusher already and so far it seems to work well. The only other issue I
> have at the moment (besides authorization) is that I don't need crossbar
> to serve any content but it appears I have to have the web part active.
> Short of just serving an empty index.html, is there any other way to
> disable it?
Alright, added that feature:
> have at the moment (besides authorization) is that I don't need crossbar
> to serve any content but it appears I have to have the web part active.
> Short of just serving an empty index.html, is there any other way to
> disable it?
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/wiki/HTTP-Pusher-Service#running-standalone
/Tobias
PS: You will need Crossbar trunk until we do a new release:
git clone g...@github.com:crossbario/crossbar.git
cd crossbar/crossbar
python setup.py install
Jason Yates
Jul 8, 2014, 4:47:04 PM7/8/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
Tobias,
Thanks
Many thanks. That works perfectly.
I am however getting an error when I enable TLS with the following config
"tls": {
"key": "push.crt",
"certificate": "push.key",
"dhparam": "dhparam.pem",
"ciphers": "ECDH+AESGCM:DH+AESGCM:ECDH+AES256:DH+AES256:ECDH+AES128:DH+AES:ECDH+3DES:DH+3DES:RSA+AES:RSA+3DES:!ADH:!AECDH:!MD5:!DSS"
}
014-07-08 16:18:53-0400 [Router 686] Using explicit cipher list.
2014-07-08 16:18:53-0400 [Router 686] Ok, OpenSSL Diffie-Hellman ciphers parameter file loaded.
2014-07-08 16:18:53-0400 [Router 686] Warning: OpenSSL failed to set ECDH default curve ['Context' object has no attribute 'set_tmp_ecdh_curve']
Tobias Oberstein
Jul 9, 2014, 10:54:09 AM7/9/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
Hi Jason,
Am 08.07.2014 22:47, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Tobias,
>
> Many thanks. That works perfectly.
Great! That was quick.
>
> I am however getting an error when I enable TLS with the following config
...
> 2014-07-08 16:18:53-0400 [Router 686] Warning: OpenSSL failed to
> set ECDH default curve ['Context' object has no attribute
> 'set_tmp_ecdh_curve']
You mean the warning?
That means: some ciphers are not available. The elliptic curve based
ones (EC**).
The reason is: Crossbar supports EC ciphers even when pyOpenSSL does not
yet - but that depends on a patched pyOpenSSL.
pyOpenSSL 0.15 will officially support EC ciphers (but with a slightly
different API than the patched one), Crossbar then needs to migrate to that:
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/issues/73
However, pyOpenSSL is not there yet:
https://github.com/pyca/pyopenssl/issues?milestone=2&state=open
Cheers,
/Tobias
Am 08.07.2014 22:47, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Tobias,
>
> Many thanks. That works perfectly.
>
> I am however getting an error when I enable TLS with the following config
> 2014-07-08 16:18:53-0400 [Router 686] Warning: OpenSSL failed to
> set ECDH default curve ['Context' object has no attribute
> 'set_tmp_ecdh_curve']
That means: some ciphers are not available. The elliptic curve based
ones (EC**).
The reason is: Crossbar supports EC ciphers even when pyOpenSSL does not
yet - but that depends on a patched pyOpenSSL.
pyOpenSSL 0.15 will officially support EC ciphers (but with a slightly
different API than the patched one), Crossbar then needs to migrate to that:
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/issues/73
However, pyOpenSSL is not there yet:
https://github.com/pyca/pyopenssl/issues?milestone=2&state=open
Cheers,
/Tobias
Jason Yates
Jul 9, 2014, 11:01:30 AM7/9/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
Tobias,
I'll fire it up again shortly and grab the output but the application crashes after the ECDH warning. It won't run with any combination of TLS configured. Is that expected based on what you said with pyOpenSSL?
Thanks
Tobias Oberstein
Jul 9, 2014, 11:34:20 AM7/9/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
Am 09.07.2014 17:01, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Tobias,
>
> I'll fire it up again shortly and grab the output but the application
> crashes after the ECDH warning. It won't run with any combination of TLS
> configured. Is that expected based on what you said with pyOpenSSL?
No, this is not expected.
> Tobias,
>
> I'll fire it up again shortly and grab the output but the application
> crashes after the ECDH warning. It won't run with any combination of TLS
> configured. Is that expected based on what you said with pyOpenSSL?
Yes, please send the log output so we can investigate the issue ..
/Tobias
Jason Yates
Jul 9, 2014, 4:28:46 PM7/9/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
Tobias,
I've just tried this again and it works fine. So I'll presume user error from before!
Thanks
Tobias Oberstein
Jul 9, 2014, 4:31:06 PM7/9/14
to autob...@googlegroups.com
Am 09.07.2014 22:28, schrieb Jason Yates:
> Tobias,
>
> Tobias,
>
> I've just tried this again and it works fine. So I'll presume user error
> from before!
Alright, great! In the meantime, I've fixed the ECDH warning.
> from before!
When using Crossbar and pyOpenSSL trunk, you now have proper ECDH.
https://github.com/crossbario/crossbar/wiki/Secure-WebSocket-and-HTTPS#prerequisites-for-ec-support
>
> Thanks
>
> On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 4:34:20 PM UTC+1, Tobias Oberstein wrote:
>
> Am 09.07.2014 17:01, schrieb Jason Yates:
> > Tobias,
> >
> > I'll fire it up again shortly and grab the output but the
> application
> > crashes after the ECDH warning. It won't run with any combination
> of TLS
> > configured. Is that expected based on what you said with pyOpenSSL?
>
> No, this is not expected.
>
> Yes, please send the log output so we can investigate the issue ..
>
> /Tobias
>
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