Blackheath / Mt Victoria Bypass Super Tunnel

[AlienChex]

https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.gov.au/about/news-events/news/ministerial/2021/20210503-australias-longest-road-tunnel-proposed-for-great-western-highway-upgrade.html

Looks like the gov are ready to pull out all the stops and build a massive tunnel beneath Blackheath and Mt Victoria. One step closer to a fully four lane Lithgow - Katoomba highway, but what do you guys think? Overkill? Or is it nessecary?

Personally I don’t see any other way. Widening the road through Mt Vic and Blackheath just further congests the small towns, and the Mt Victoria pass just slows traffic down anyway (even though it’s already four lanes). This is the key to crossing the blueys

[jrg]

I agree Alex, I really hope this goes ahead. And as an old fart, I hope I'm around to drive it when it opens. 

There are big advantages in joining the two tunnels. A Mt Vic to Hartley tunnel must surely be quite steep, given the terrain, so starting the tunnel at Blackheath would enable a better gradient over the whole 11km length - surely a big selling point for the road transport industry. 

And 11km isn't really a long tunnel by world standards - it doesn't even make the top 10 by length. 

John

[Vincent]

Frankly I'll believe it when I see it, this feels like the kind of project that would be vulnerable to a change of government.

The Hume and Pacific Highway upgrades could be sold as linking one capital city to another capital city, so it was a fairly compelling use case. Traditionally less attention has been dedicated to building infrastructure west of the mountains - it's been incremental and reactive. There has been a convergence of factors in the past 14 months - increased domestic travel due to COVID and the partial closure of Bells Line of Road - which has led to increased traffic loads. Without these factors, I doubt whether we'd be talking about this at all.

Having said all of that, if the tunnel does go ahead I think it should start at the bottom of Victoria Pass and end where the divided highway begins at Katoomba. Tale as old as time, the highway clogs up where two lanes become one at multiple points in both directions. A tunnel of this length bypasses the worst of the pinch points. There will still be heavy traffic in the usual places - Springwood, Faulconbridge and Blaxland are the worst. However, the only alternative that would fully alleviate this would be a tunnel under the mountains which the government has already ruled out.

Cheers,

Vincent.

[#130km/hforthehume]

This will be one step closer from people being able to travel from Bathurst to Sydney on a daily basis

[Paul Rands]

A lot are already using the Bathurst Flyer trains

--
Paul Rands
li...@paulrands.com
WWW: http://www.expressway.online/

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Aussie Highways" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to aussie-highwa...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/fe5400e7-85c3-4584-a7af-ed5601713cf4n%40googlegroups.com.

[Adrian Biankin]

When it does open, I think its route number would probably be M32 or something...

[#130km/hforthehume]

that could very well happen if Lithgow was bypassed and the made it a divided highway from Lithgow to Bathurst (in which only 12% is). That would be NSW's highest M route number, but I'm afraid it'll probably stay as A32.

[#130km/hforthehume]

on second thought, your proposal could happen under certain conditions

1. If TfNSW is okay with short routes, and interchanging route numbers
2. If the extend M4 west as A4 and then it changes to M32
3. If an extension is built up to Glenbrook/Lapstone. Also, is it just me, or does Great Western Motorway sound unusual? 

[Adrian Biankin]

I was thinking they should've done upgraded the two-lane road into a freeway grade road, with a median in the middle and all, when they were doing the upgrades/fixups earlier this year around Lithgow(Hartley)/Oberon interchange.

[AlienChex]

I doubt they’ll change to M32, it’s easier to just keep it consistent and have it A32. M4 ends back in Emu Plains when the road becomes a divided Highway through the blueys 

If you did the Elon Musk “tunnel under the entire blue mountains” idea, then that would be M4, and the old road could be a continuation of A32. But that’s a pipe dream lol

[Adrian Biankin]

I reckon it'll be a different route number. If it was M4 all the way, then it'll be the longest Moneyway in Australia.

[Adrian Biankin]

[#130km/hforthehume]

Question: What's a moneyway? Is it just what Victorians call as Tollway, or what is it?

Also, NSW doesn't use borders any more

[Adrian Biankin]

A moneyway is a tolled motorway here in NSW. The tunnel tolls cost a lot so, that's why I put that there.

[#130km/hforthehume]

1. NSW does not toll regional roads. Only Queensland does that
2. No one calls it "Moneyway" or at least here in Sydney, and instead it's just: MOTORWAY TOLL or TUNNEL TOLL

[Rob Tilley]

Geez someone can’t take a joke…..

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Jul 2021, at 22:39, #130km/hforthehume <thenorthernt...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/733eee36-0267-41ed-92a5-d51b5fcb394an%40googlegroups.com.

[Adrian Biankin]

It would be a moneyway to people because the cost of the tunnel tolls would be big.

[AlienChex]

Eww duplicate alphanumerics 🤢. ACT moment

I do like the idea of a Blue Mountains super tunnel, a pure fantasy 50km tunnel from M4 to Lithgow.

[Rob Tilley]

Should call it the Cash Cow Moneyway lol

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 8:41:36 PM UTC+10 abia...@gmail.com wrote:

[#130km/hforthehume]

Tassie moment for me...

But in all honesty, we need a motorway and tunnel from Glenbrook all the way to Orange or even Wellington or Dubbo

[Adrian Biankin]

As I said earlier, they should upgrade the existing (or build) a new Freeway/Motorway, or an expressway... \

 

[#130km/hforthehume]

I like that proposal, except for two things:

1. The altitude difference between Linden and Wentworth Falls is quite gradual here, so it may as well go on a more straightforward route.

2. Why even bother to go to Katoomba? Build exits at Medlow Bath and Wentworth Falls so it doesn't have to suddenly go up in altitude and down again. (a northernly alignment would do this job, but a southerly won't.)

[Adrian Biankin]

On Tuesday, July 27, 2021 at 9:26:29 AM UTC+10 Adrian Biankin wrote:

[Adrian Biankin]

[#130km/hforthehume]

Here's my proposal for the eastern section. I was a little inconsiderate of nature here, but I took geography as key here 

[Adrian Biankin]

[Adrian Biankin]

Looks like its official :)

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-releases/australias-longest-road-tunnel-locked-for-blue-mountains

[Adrian Biankin]

Looks like its gonna be toll-free.

Western end: Little Hartley

Eastern end: Blackheath

[Paul R]

I wonder how long it will before it actually gets built?

--
Paul Rands
li...@paulrands.com
WWW: http://www.expressway.online/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/d0574ea8-cfaf-4988-b070-1af4b3ee40a9n%40googlegroups.com.

[Aevion]

I believe I read somewhere they were hoping to start building in 2025, but I could be wrong.

[Nihat]

they have already decided to use TBM which will be a first i think in nsw as they normally use road headers. given the depth of the tunnel it is the only choice.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/87f68586-0482-40a2-8a62-5c0057d6e869n%40googlegroups.com.

[Nihat]

EIS confirming longest tunnels at 11km, being done by TBM and up to 200m underground.

https://caportal.com.au/tfnsw/great-western-highway/central

[MH2351]

They won't be able to call it M32 as it would duplicate with the existing A32 G Western Hwy through the Blue mountains. For context, I went around Geelong and when a non freeway traffic could go to Princes Hwy instead of M1 Princes fwy, the sign directed was A10 as A1 would duplicate with M1.

My possible numbers that could number the Great Western Expressway are:

• Existing M4 gets an extension from current Laptone to expressway terminus
• If M4 is refused, it must be an even number as it is latitude like road (East to West). Out of all possible numbers, this could be an M14/M40
• A14/A40 may replace A32 if A32 wishes to supersede and become motorway standard through tunnel

[Albert Alcoceba]

Can’t use M40 / A40 as A40 is already used for for Victoria Road/Old Windsor Road from Sydney to Seven Hills.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/497b6b64-acdb-4ced-8dec-24e861b84c20n%40googlegroups.com.

[#130km/hforthehume]

More likely than not, A32 will simply be moved underground, leaving the surface road without a route number. 

[MH2351]

In that case, the existing B55 Castlereagh Hwy might as be extended to replace the 'former Blue Mountain' A32, in the likes of the F3 M1 and B83.

[#130km/hforthehume]

It's very unlikely for that to happen. Once the tunnel is constructed, the route through Blackheath will lose its significance and is no different from the many other former sections of the Pacific Highway, like Giinagay Way, Telegraph Pt Rd, Macleay Valley Way, Solitary Islands Way, Big River Way, none of which are numbered. The only chance of anything like this happening is if NSW were to adopt C-routes.

[AlienChex]

The Coxs River Road upgrade has opened - https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/news-and-events/media-releases/upgraded-stretch-of-great-western-highway-opens

Anyone got any videos or photos? 

[Nihat]

some below in the video. the vision not yet realised and this stand alone project will be the reminder, a road to nowhere one of the pollies said. not quite but the project was contract let just in time to avoid the pulling of funds from the commonwealth. 

hopefully in due course the rest of the highway can be upgraded apart from the tunnel sections, i do not think that will ever happen. 

https://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/video/local/x9hl3p6/232-million-coxs-river-road-upgrade-open/

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/aussie-highways/7bb7cbc1-7f81-4043-9128-328ccd997838n%40googlegroups.com.