Do I need a new tablet? Downloads stay red after update.

[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

I've been using an Asus TF700 with Avare for some time.  The Google play store says the current version of Avare is not compatible with my tablet.  The TF700 is running Avare version 8.0.3

Problem: When I try to download or update data in Avare, the categories such as "database", "sectionals", "enroute charts" etc (red indicating they need to be updated) will show they are downloading and extracting but will remain red after they download.   The only way I can get them to change to green is to delete them.  If after deleting them I download them again, they change to red.

I found one thread in this forum stating this was a known issue that was resolved with a more recent version.  Is this true?  If so, my tablet isn't compatible with the more recent version.

Questions: Is this issue able to be resolved on my current tablet?  Current tablet works great and I would like to keep it.

If this issue cannot be resolved on my tablet, what is the brightest 10 inch tablet on the market?  The old Asus TF700 has 600 nits brightness. 

[Peter Gustafson]

Do you see charts when you open a sectional?  If so, then your tablet has a supported android version.

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[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

Yes, the charts are present, but since this started happening I get occasional dropout of the chart in flight.  By dropout I mean the background will go all white.

[M F]

What happens if you change to the bubble.org folder and update the charts? 

This has worked for several of us this cycle. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/27c19e01-2768-424b-ac58-c035d24c341dn%40googlegroups.com.

[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

Avare version 8.0.3 on my tablet doesn't offer bubble as a chart download server option.  It offers apps4av.org that I have been using.  It also offers kitepilot.net and private server.  Do I have to go into private server and enter some bubble address?

[Jim Roberts]

Update to 10.0.3 (play store) and it should be there. It is there on all of my devices.

Jim

[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

Can't update.  Play store says the newer version isn't compatible with my tablet.

[Zubair Khan]

You may install 10.0.3 from apps4av.org/new.



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[Zubair Khan]

Correction :

https://apps4av.org/share

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On Mar 19, 2021, 3:42 PM, STEVE CANTARUTTI < canta...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Zubair Khan]

Exact link:

http://www.apps4av.org/share/Avare.apk.10.0.3.zip

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[Peter Gustafson]

It appears the manifest files have the wrong cycle listed for some items (Chart Sup, WAC, Area plates).  Sectionals, plates, database, etc should be unaffected.

The ones at issue will be updated shortly.  However, this seems inconsistent with reports of all items being red.

For now, please use bubble as suggested and we'll straighten it out.

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[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: STEVE CANTARUTTI <canta...@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Apps4Av] Do I need a new tablet? Downloads stay red after update.
To: Peter Gustafson <pgust...@gmail.com>

Other files such as database are red.

Can't use bubble as it's not in version 8.0.3

I downloaded the direct install of 10.0.3 but it won't install. I get error message something about parsed.

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[Jeffrey Ross]

Steve,

Again I ask, what is the Android version on your tablet?  If it is less than 5.0 Avare will not work for you, even if you could load the current version of the application the encoding on the charts requires functions that just do not exist on the older versions of the Android software.

If you want to continue to use the older tablet a possibility is to look at "rooting" the device and installing a custom ROM, however that is well beyond the scope of this mailing list.

Jeff

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAARRWfot4QKc4Hy%3Db51%3DsJ_Xokg%3D-aksY6orDWpC5BAT95efqg%40mail.gmail.com.

[M F]

Won't his problem be fixed (needing updates charts) after the apps4av cycle 2102 data is updated/corrected? He wouldn't need to get to bubble (or need Avare ver 10) and Avare ver 8 should work with that cycle. Correct??

But at some point he will need a newer device or Android version to get any newer version of Avare.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/0d9690bb-9cbb-8f26-99e0-bfff5888ed17%40bubble.org.

[Jeffrey Ross]

No, there was a notification to the list over 2 years ago about the changes to the chart format that was going to require a minimum of Android 5.0 anything older will not work.

See this posting I made referencing a handful of other postings going back to November 2018

https://groups.google.com/g/apps4av-forum/c/QmCkEAdR2IE/m/GTWLsDXmAgAJ

It was a decision that wasn't made lightly but based upon the Android versions in use by the Avare community it was decided that the space savings and other requirements outweighed the very small group of users that would be affected.  Plus a low cost Android tablet can be had for well under $100, plus by the time the tablets get to be more than 4 years old or so the batteries don't hold much of a charge and the cost of a battery is more than the tablet. (I picked up two used Samsung SM-T380 tablets for ~$75 each shipped over two years ago)

Jeff

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAHiSVptSOn_W96ytGuQydhkGBvOLT_N5sasZyCfZSSChB5BjzQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[M F]

The updating of the files on apps4av has solved the problem with the chart files staying marked as expired. 

Everything is now green! 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/e881300d-0cd4-a560-2108-bd25d248672c%40bubble.org.

[t v]

>>No, there was a notification to the list over 2 years ago about the changes to the chart format that was going to require a minimum of Android 5.0 anything older will not work.

It was a decision that wasn't made lightly but based upon the Android versions in use by the Avare community it was decided that the space savings and other requirements outweighed the very small group of users that would be affected.  Plus a low cost Android tablet can be had for well under $100, plus by the time the tablets get to be more than 4 years old or so the batteries don't hold much of a charge and the cost of a battery is more than the tablet. (I picked up two used Samsung SM-T380 tablets for ~$75 each shipped over two years ago)<<

Hi Jeff and everyone.

The above is incorrect on all counts.

Avare 1003 still runs on 442.

Space saving is negligible an ill conceived, there is a lot more storage available in the newer devices.

Most of the Avare users signed up before 2018 and I do not know haw many exactly there are with older devices, like I am, but given the history it would be logical to say that more than 60%  have devices older than AOS 5.0

Most of the tablets are over $100.00 if you feel like that is chump change you may want to post your Credit card Nr. here, don't forget they 3 digits in the back of it.

I already have 3 devices that were rendered useless and they were all over $200.00 one was over $400.00, I will only charge $800.00 to your card, I promise. Some of those devices I loaned out to some pilots that could not afford the tablets and they had nothing to use until I purchased a couple of new ones.

I replaced the battery in 2 of my devices, one cost $9.00 the other $11.00 and it took about .5 hrs each. TV

[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

Jeff and all

Sorry if I missed the question of what android version I am running.  It is 4.2.1

My Asus TF700 is currently rooted.  I may be able to find a compatible ROM to flash.

I might just buy a Samsung S7 though as the old Asus seemed a little slow.

Is the S7 the best and brightest current option in the 10 inch size?

[Jeffrey Ross]

yeah 4.2.1 definitely will not work, it looks like 4.4.2 is the absolute minimum version that will work, and the change to require 4.4.2 or later unfortunately ruffled a few feathers which maybe why the requirement for 5.0 never came to fruition.   Just as a point of reference 4.4.2 was released in December 2013 with 5.0 in November 2014.

There have been a lot of discussions in the past on which tablet is best and much of it comes down to personal preference.  I prefer the 8" tablets, I tend to go for the lower cost unit units as I don't use them for much else than Avare ...and I want two tablets with me in the unlikely event one were to fail on me in flight.  Granted I have my cell phone but for the cost vs. peace of mind I decided to get two.  A friend of mine has a single tablet and a printed copy of the charts in the plane, again in case of a failure.

On my tablet is the navigational software and a scanned in copy of the owners manual (plane is too old for a POH), the flight manual supplement, and all of pilot guides for the equipment in the aircraft which are required to be onboard.  Believe it or not all the paper weighed almost 10 pounds and removing it from the aircraft and making it available digitally to me was a win.  I researched doing this with AOPA who pointed me to the relevant advisory circular which basically said under part 91 I could make it all digital.  All the manuals are stored on Google Drive and I selected the option to make "available offline".

Jeff

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/ee88014b-48d8-41eb-b311-eed7e5960edan%40googlegroups.com.

[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

Oh, I like the digital conversion idea.  Might just do that myself.

[Zubair Khan]

Would it help if we created a digital viewer in the app?

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[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

A digital viewer (in my opinion) isn't going to bring much to the table.  After all, documents like the ARROW documents may be stored on the tablet and placed in a folder readily accessible on the desktop.  

What I think would bring a tremendous improvement would be the arc painted in front of the plane representing point of ground impact based on current altitude, forward speed, rate of descent, and ground elevation.  When using one of those I could dead stick a landing target from 10 miles out and 10k AGL.

[Zubair Khan]

That arc is already in the app.

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[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

I see rings with 2, 5 or 10 mile radius but no arc.  The arc moves in or out based on rate of descent and altitude.  If I am missing it, where?

[Zubair Khan]

10.0.+ build.

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[STEVE CANTARUTTI]

ok, I see.  Definitely going to replace my tablet now.

Thanks for that.

[Thomas McIntosh]

You all have to promise to not laugh: I have an Acer 200 tablet that has been running Avare for a long time. The Android OS is 4.0.3, and the Avare version is 8.0.7. I am having trouble getting the current charts (March 4th to April 1st) to install. When I tell the app to update, it APPEARS that it is doing so, but when it's done I still have the Feb. 4th-March 4th files. What's the problem? BTW, I love my tablet. It has a nice big screen and has functioned well for the entire time I've had it.

[Peter Gustafson]

It is your android version... 4.4.2+ is required.  And you are way behind in avare version (because google play won't let you update, because your android is too old).

It is funny this surfaces about once every 4-6 months... it must be infrequent flying or backup tablets?  (Or not staying up-to-date... though we've had this limit for a long time now!)

I see three solutions for you.  Root and install a rom, or upgrade your tablet.  Last ditch effort would be to create your own charts from current charts (or convince somebody else to do it for you).  It is possible... but strongly discouraged.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/0ff0ce8d-4499-4d86-8366-0ad96bdb64adn%40googlegroups.com.

[Michael Byrd]

I've been enjoying this thread. I LOVE Avare because I can use an inexpensive Android phone and tablet. I don't have to buy into the evil Apple ecosystem.

Everyone is being patient and accommodating, as you always are, which is another reason I've come to appreciate this community. I will attempt to do likewise and add my observation, in case it's helpful.

I own a web development business, although I am not personally a developer. I look at costs, sales, profitability. The purchase decision for new computer hardware is always easy and I always say yes. We'll get a new computer (or tablet or phone, which is why this applies) as soon as we start having trouble. This is usually every 2-4 years. Measuring "cost of use," which I believe is the important metric here, a new tablet every 36 months is a cheap and easy fix. Even at $600, which is well over the price of most Android phones and tablets, you're talking about $16.67/month. Do it now, and don't waste your time trying to make old stuff work. If you're in aviation, your time is worth more than $17/hour, not to mention $17/month. 

Thanks. Keep up the great work!

- mb

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/cdbc31fe-c049-1317-032c-44773883a674%40gmail.com.

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[Rich Klarich]

You could root it to 4.4.2, but that's a wiped clean slate if you do so.

I did similar with a Tab 2 on a root of Android 5.

http://www.acertabletforum.com/forum/acer-a200-roms/10043-rom-a200-omnirom-kitkat-4-4-2-a.html

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/cdbc31fe-c049-1317-032c-44773883a674%40gmail.com.

[Zubair Khan]

Hi All
I agree that people need to update. 4.4.2 takes us back to 2013. Silicon does not last that long and devices are made to be replaced every 2 years. I just bought a 8 core mobile device with HD screen for $49 because google fi is running a promotion.
If anyone here cannot afford a tablet please send me an email and I will be glad to donate one to you. I think there are students in college who are working hard to make ends meet. Gladly will help them.
Also we will be careful to not update in future unless google forces it on us.
Thanks
Z

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[Rich Klarich]

These are $120 and mine works great, It's my carry everywhere addition to a smartphone.

In a bluetooth keyboard case for $20 I need not lug a laptop.

Samsung Galaxy Tab A 8.0" (2019, WiFi Only) 32GB, 5100mAh Battery, Dual Speaker, SM-T290, International Model (Black)

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/VWVZKkeN4ndT2NGI9DciPdSOwENyBmMYVTeVPcyDc4pPyT6MibFNuuzx199iOm0SZtADguF7yQnhOL__xXcAoBvoAaJHT_fRqXqVyrYsSi8%3D%40protonmail.com.

[Michael Byrd]

I have a similar one, but single speaker and with a T-Mobile data plan. It works reliably, with no futzing. I have Avare on it and my phone when I fly, plus a battery brick.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/CAHkrn73qLB1z_yYj%2BPE_qynATQdDrdXHNN3Xv7R3vcDCfSAyrg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Brad Walker]

I would strongly suggest 4.4.4 be the minimum version supported. Not just 4.4.2+..

Pretty soon Avare is going to have to support the Storage Framework in order to make things work correctly. Even for old devices. As Google is going to force apps to eventually support Android 11 and scoped storage. Scoped storage is going to be more restrictive in terms of accessing files & directories as the system will now start to enforce access.

https://developer.android.com/distribute/best-practices/develop/target-sdk

-brad w.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 9:55 AM 'Zubair Khan' via Apps4Av Forum <apps4a...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi All
I agree that people need to update. 4.4.2 takes us back to 2013. Silicon does not last that long and devices are made to be replaced every 2 years. I just bought a 8 core mobile device with HD screen for $49 because google fi is running a promotion.
If anyone here cannot afford a tablet please send me an email and I will be glad to donate one to you. I think there are students in college who are working hard to make ends meet. Gladly will help them.
Also we will be careful to not update in future unless google forces it on us.
Thanks
Z

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 11:31 AM Peter Gustafson <pgust...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jeffrey Ross]

Steve,

Verify the version of the Andoid OS you are running, the tablet came out in January 2012 with Android version 4.0, this version is too old to run Avare due to how the charts are generated the older versions of the Android OS are incompatible with Avare.

Also Avare 10.0.3 is the current version, it is probably not showing up in the playstore due to the version of Android you are running.

I have a feeling you are in need of a hardware update, although you got 9 years out of the tablet, that isn't bad, I can't image the battery is in great shape at this point.

Jeff

[Jeffrey Ross]

You need to upgrade your tablet as the minimum version that the charts will be viewable on is 4.4.2

See - https://groups.google.com/g/apps4av-forum/c/eRIt-6_KOTA/m/Bs_cI7EjEwAJ  It references 4.3 and greater, however I believe it ended up being 4.4.2 being the minimum supported version.

Jeff

On 3/21/21 9:10 AM, Thomas McIntosh wrote:

[t v]

On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 8:55:41 AM UTC-7 Zubair Khan wrote:

 Silicon does not last that long and devices are made to be replaced every 2 years.

 

Hi Z and everyone.

That is a brain washing technique that some of these companies want you to accept.

Semi conductor / Silicon used in ICs, with proper design  will outlast most of us humans / human race, likely will be around after we are all gone.

I have a tube / transistor radio, and at least 4-5 transistor only, that are over 50 years old.

I have a CPM system and a Multi bus, Amiga, Radioshack, TTL, diodes...  that are still working fine from over 40 years ago. I still have and at times use, a  Daisy wheel printer that cannot be matched in quality by any dot metrics that is using 4004 micro.... 40+ years old.

The problem we have is that some companies will do just about anything to try to sell their trash, at any cost.

Just imagine how much actual electronic garbage gets created by allowing them to brain wash us. The is a shortage of silicon where car manufacturers cannot build due to shortage but some these "Ecologically correct"? companies, G, MS..... will do anything to make devices obsolete and create a tremendous amount of waste.

I've been around, and have direct experience with some of the things these got built on. MS / B  actually took complete test routines,  without even trying to modify a single byte, and placed it in the code they were selling. The same company leader, after we begged him to increase the Memory management to beyond 640K, said we will Never need to go beyond that. They now track every second of your computer on time, Cortana, Sleep study, Screenon  log... and resorting to what I consider illegal practices, where they lock your system up if you do not upgrade to what they want.

A couple of weeks ago after about 4 hrs of data entry my system was completely disabled with an orange message "Let’s cross this one of your list", no logo, no indication that it was from MS. I just about passed out. I am very careful about all these bugs and  I assumed this was a Trojan / Virus and the first rule, at least for me, is do Not click / activate anything.

I just powered my system off and here goes over 4 hours of work and another almost complete day of testing in Safety mode with all kinds of anti virus, Malware…trying to find out the bug. I did not find any thing and very scarred I re enable my Network go on the WWW and find out that this is a well known strong arm techniques that MS uses, Really ?!!!  From a legitimate co.? Imagine, all someone has to do, and likely that is how they do it in some cases ids to use the code that is already in the OS and just put their name an phone nr to extort you.  I do not know who did and who that project manager responsible  for the code,  and the coder. but I would fire them on the spot. I hope he / she is no longer there.

By the same token I experienced the G's re routing procedure where you could not get your site recognized unless they wanted  to when you did a search. Now they are controlling, or at least are trying to, all the AOS downloads. For our safety? Not likely, they want to know everything you do so that they can sell that information to others.

Now we have these people be our guardians of safety, and some of us, look forward / anticipating and accepting the restrictions they are willing to keep adding in the name of safety. I can tell you that  if we have any self respect we need to stand up to them and stop them, at least as long as we can.

I think most of us are fairly intelligent and we should try to do to protect the users and facilitate access to the app without interference or restrictions. We have some control and we should exercise it as long as we can. TV

[Zubair Khan]

Hi TV
Appreciate your point of view.

Thanks
Z


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[mjs...@gmail.com]

I am having the same problem with everything staying red after update. My android is 4.4.2. Can you please tell me how specifically (as in step by step) to update it using the apps4av site that I read about here? I have NO CLUE how to do this.

Melissa Schipul

[M F]

What version of Avare is installed on your tablet? 

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[mjs...@gmail.com]

7.9.0. I just went to the play store and typed in Avare and it shows "update". I am surprised that it doesn't update automatically and was afraid that doing it would mess up how the data files are stored (which was a major ordeal to set up to go to my SD card).

[mjs...@gmail.com]

Updating WORKED!! Thank you.