SD card storage

[scott boelke]

Hi. Samsung S4, ATT software. I tried the procedure that's supposed to work and when I click on charts storage folder, no matter how much i click the UP arrow, I cannot get UP enough to see the SD card. As high UP as i can get i see 'sdcard' but it's still on a phone subdirectory. I've created the extension, nevertheless, and it still does not go there when I click "OK".  It still goes where the developers told it to go. I love this app, but my phone does not have the free GB this app gobbles. Anyone know how I can reach the real SD card and actually create a folder that the app will actually go to when I click OK? Why was this extremely data-fat app created without ability to use SD card?

[Ben Setnick]

I had the same issue on the S5. Adjoining that Samsung is consistent, you'll need to go up to the root directory, then to /storage/extsdcard and create your folder there.

[scott boelke]

ROOT is a locked folder. It's got the red lock. I cannot click on it :(

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Scott and everyone.
Look at the pictures below and  follow these steps to install on an external SDcard:
1-Create a Directory / folder in your external card, see pic. "ExtSdPath.jpg" create every Directory / folder, if they do not exist until you get the ...data/com.ds.avare.
2-In Avare Options... navigate with the up arrow until you get to the com.ds.avare, go trough every layer as depicted in pic. "AvaChrtLoc.jpg", you may not be able to get to the external SDcard without going to Storage first, just follow the path. Make sure you you create the com.ds.avare firstin the external card and the names may be a bit different depending on the OS version.
Post here if you need more help. TV

[Ben Setnick]

By the root directory, I meant '/' not the actual 'root' directory. Sorry for the confusion. When you are at /, you should see 'STORAGE' and under that 'EXTSDCARD'. That's your SD card and where you want to create the directories.

[John W SBA]

Have you tried "Use the default external folder" in Avare's settings?

I have the Verizon S4 (Android 5.0.1) so it may work differently, but
for me the Android directory structure is sorta random. This is
apparently due to the fact that the implementation of Android on each
device and version of Android is slightly different, apps are only
allowed limited access to the directories, and users may be given even
more limited access. Everything is different on the Nexus 7 used as my
primary in-flight Avare device. An example of this chaos is demonstrated
for me by the fact that the My Files app supplied with my phone shows a
very different structure than the more powerful open source OI File
Manager app, and both of course differ from the navigator inside Avare.
All this chaos arises from variety in Android implementations and the
efforts of Google to protect our devices from hackers using rogue apps
to access our data, by limiting the access to only data created and used
by that app. So when we install Avare, Android gives it a little
"sandbox" to use and won't easily let it go outside of that. Google also
probably wants to encourage us to do everything in their online "cloud"
rather than on removable SD cards.

Anyway, on my phone Avare (7.0.1) offers two easy choices atop
Options/Preferences/Storage and Downloads/Charts Storage Folder:
"Use the default external folder"
"Use the default folder"

I presume that the second choice is the S4 internal storage and the
first is the SD card you'd like to use. btw: I've reverted my own
setting back to internal because the phone's SD card started losing data
and messing up every app that used it, so after replacing the SD chip I
don't fully trust SD.

On my S4 tapping the default external button shows:
/storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.ds.avare

Tapping the default folder (presumably internal) shows:
/data/data/com.ds.avare/files
This is also what shows when I first open that Avare preference. In epic
Android fashion however, each of the file apps mentioned above is
completely unable to display that directory even though it clearly exists.

> phone does not have the free GB this app gobbles

Unless you have a lot of apps loaded internally or they're using lots of
storage, I guess you're using a lot of charts, because even with only
70MB on my SD the phone's 16GB of internal space has 3.7GB of space
available. The app itself is tiny by Android standards, and even the
charts are relatively small files. Since I only install the charts I
need, the only way I've ever seen Avare use significant storage is when
I've inadvertently kept old charts no longer needed from a
trans-continental flight.

Can you tell us how much space Avare and all its files are actually
using on your device?

[R Oaks]

====================================
Not going to bore anyone with the details, BUT I have NEVER been able to get the data files to the SD card.

This was on my Galaxy S4 and S5 and most recently on my Note 4 and a Kindle that I had rooted and removed the partition.

Tried the suggested procedure on the NOTE 4 (...had done before many times).  Avare says the files are on the SD card BUT the phone operating System File Manager still has the files IN the device RAM and not on the SD Card.

Just now deleted all cache and data files and the Avare program.
Reloaded Avare.
Went to Avare and wrote down the default external path of
   /storage/emulated/0/Android/data/com.ds.avare
then via file manager established the above path on the SD card.

Started Avare and immediately went to
  PREFERENCES
    Storage and Downloads
      Charts Storage Folder
        selected tab -> Use the default external folder

Confirmed via file manage that the path existed.
Downloaded one VFR chart
It was operational in the Avare program.

Via file manager checked the path and no data was present for the above SD card path.

Via file manager checked the following path:
  Internal storage
    Android
      data
        com.ds.avare
... there was the data that I had just downloaded

Point is if you check via a file manager (...not Avare) did Avare in fact store the data per the path you established?
I would REALLY like to know what you find....
So far all my attempts on three different devices result in Avare putting data in the device memory and NOT the SD card.

So this would seem to be an Avare problem?
============================================

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi ROaks.
I was able to get everyone of my Samsungs and the LG that I have with External SDcards to install on the External card, see one of the above pics with one of my devices installed on external card.
Can you post the exact steps, all steps as you do it, here and I will have a look at it and see if you are doing something different?
From reading your message it would seem that you are Not Redownloading the Charts / Data after you create / set your Path?
Another issue I found is that Android OS will Not display the newly created files immediately after you created a Directory, must turn the Device OFF / ON to see them.
A coiple of things I could suggest, after you initially downloaded and have Avare running in the default directory:
1-Create the Path as I suggested.
2-Make sure you toggle Power on your device.
3-Go into Avare and point to the Directory you just created.
4-Re Download your Data and Charts.
5-Go verify your Directory for the Charts.
6-You can delete your old files from the previous, internal, directory.  TV

[Zubair Khan]

Google makes it very hard to access the sdcard. They have a good reason for that. And we are not a hacking group to circumvent their recommended procedures through loopholes. Sorry that its not working for some of you. As soon as google changes it policy, we will provide a fail safe method.
Thanks
Z

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[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

On Aug 24 someone posted a link to https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/data-storage.html#filesExternal

I'm worse than a "babe in the woods" on this, but it appears that there are three API calls:

Sometimes, a device that has allocated a partition of the internal memory for use as the external storage may also offer an SD card slot. When such a device is running Android 4.3 and lower, the getExternalFilesDir() method provides access to only the internal partition and your app cannot read or write to the SD card. Beginning with Android 4.4, however, you can access both locations by calling getExternalFilesDirs(), which returns a File array with entries each location. The first entry in the array is considered the primary external storage and you should use that location unless it's full or unavailable. If you'd like to access both possible locations while also supporting Android 4.3 and lower, use the support library's static method, ContextCompat.getExternalFilesDirs(). This also returns a File array, but always includes only one entry on Android 4.3 and lower.

Does that not work?  Perhaps this is an area for me to investigate ...

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ ) 

On 2015-12-16 16:06, Zubair Khan wrote:

Yes but /sdcard on some devices still points to internal SD memory. Only built in apps like camera know the secret sdcard path on these devices. Crazy.

On Dec 16, 2015 7:02 PM, "Dean Gibson ATP/CFI" <a...@mailpen.com> wrote:

I'm of the understanding that every app has file and directory creation privileges in <sdcard-path>/Android/data/<package-name>.  Is that correct?

In the case of Avare, that's <sdcard-path>/Android/data/com.ds.avare  Even if the user can't navigate to it, can't Avare provide it as one of the choices?

This is for others, I have no problem having Avare use the external SD card, on Android 4.4 through 5.1.  Don't know about 6.0.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ ) 

[R Oaks]

Zubair, how about a work-around? Would it be possible to make the data files available at say an ftp site that we could download from and transfer to an external SD card. Then insert the SD card into our device that had your program loaded on. You would need to establish and tell us the path to put into your program ....or you could let that be the default path.

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 10:58:18 AM UTC-5, scott boelke wrote:

[E.A.A. Ed]

Recently got a new phone, (my backup Avare). It has the same problem locating files for Avare as I had updated Avare on my sd card on old phone before changing card to new phone. New phone recognized the music, photos, etc. that were on the sd card, but Avare could not find the sd card with all the info and only gives system memory as available, (and what is marked as sd storage by Avare is system memory.)

So, looking through the System files using the Avare file browser I found a folder, (locked), marked storage. Inside that folder was an unlocked folder marked extSdCard. from there I was able to access the recommended file path. So I had /storage/extSdCard/Android/data/com.ds.avare and was successful at downloading the database and I am now downloading my maps, etc. So, it turns out that access to the Sd Card was not where Avare thought it was. If I had figured this out at first, I would not have to download everything I had deleted as I had thought that the Sd Card was having problems.

Carl

[har...@charter.net]

How to load Load a kml file from Samsung 5 SD card to Avare. If this is what you want to do, note the file structure for the Samsung phone. If you use the up arrow and go as far up as you can go you will get to the root
directory of the phone ( /). Under this you should see a few directories and then sdcard. Click on the sdcardand you should see Samsung. Click on Samsung and you will see Music and the kml directory you created.

I used windows explorer and went down to the Samsung directory at the bottom and created a kml folder where I want to store my kml files. I used Avare's Preferences, Storage and Downloads; User Defined waypoints/Plans; and saw /sdcard/Samsung/kml and my file was listed below. I then select
the one and only kml file in the kml file directory and press Ok. Avare displays the kml pattern. If you load more than one kml file into this directory of your choosing, it will display both. The only trick to delete the kml being
displayed is to delete the kml file from the directory and then open the kml directory and click Ok to an empty directory. This should erase the kml pattern. Hope this helps.

Blue skies,
Major Ray Hara

Picture of SamSung Phone directory Structure

[R Oaks]

Respectfully, my understanding of the problem and that which I have experiences for way over a year is how to load and operated the Avare data base to a SD card and then to operate the Avare program with the data stored on the SD card.

Month and months ago I recall reading from a 'Samsung user group forum', as someone else stated on this forum a few days ago, that with the start, I think, of Android 5 the Android operating system was changed to prohibit writing data to an SD card.  Their (Samsung) camera and other programs write, store and access data to and from an SD card ...so i am not seeing the reason why Avare can not do the same.

I have been writing computer programs for decades, but have very limited knowledge of Android programs.  I, AND hopefully others will keep looking for a 'work-around'.

Currently I believe the author of Advare stores the data for this program under the com.ds.avare directory.  Despite that which the programs says we can do ...we can not assign the data to and SD card.  Even when we 'tell' that data to be stored on the SD card it still goes to the internal memory of our device.

So can we get our Avare data from, say and FTP site, and then load it to the micro SD card?  Then put the micro SD card in our device and execute the Avare program?

R Oaks
==========================================

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi ROaks.
A couple of questions:
1-Have you tried the procedure that I outlined Above? If you did what step were you Not able to complete?
2-Can you post a Screenshot of the Make Model of your device, go to About.
3-Post a Screenshot of the Parent / Root directory, see my pic below.
Thanks. TV

[RV7 Builder]

I've been fighting this issue off & on for months, & finally realized what other posters here may not: just because the external storage button leads you to an SD card, it doesn't mean that it's your *external* SD card. If you see 'emulated' anywhere in the path, it's internal memory in the phone; not the external card. 

After creating the directory on the external card as directed at the start of this thread, my Samsung S4 still refuses to use that directory. Once created & selected, when I go back to Avare I get an error: 'Download The required data file is missing and must be downloaded.' (not surprising) But when I tell Avare to download it, I get: 'Download Failed: databases, code unable to store the zip file libcore.io.ErrnoException: open failed: EACCES (Permission Denied)'

My phone has been rooted (only to allow use of a previously Sprint-tied phone to operate on AT&T's network).

Charlie

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Charlie and everyone.
In the later Android Versions, 5.xxx and after we found out that Google / Android have added restrictions to Not allow us to run in / access the External SDcard. I do not the reason for it, my guess is because none of the Google tablets have external cards?
The only workaround, where you can still get to see / manipulate your files is to install Avare in the Device Storage / internal sd card / storage. After you install there you can view / access your files normally, as you would in the External.
Follow the same procedure as in the ExtSDcard installation, except that the the final path is .../DeviceStorage/Android/data/com.ds.avare.
Make sure you first create the com.ds.avare folder first. TV

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

Well, I have no problem having Avare access memory on my microSD cards on Android 5.0 and 5.1 (non-rooted LG devices).  However, as you say, create "/Android/data/com.ds.avare" first.  Android apparently simulates permissions on the SDcard, and if those get messed up, you may have to do a factory reset.  That's what I had to do with one beta copy of Avare, and it's why I will never again install an Avare beta on an unrooted device.  On a rooted device, I can take steps to fix it.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ ) 

--

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Dean.
If you can post a pic, see the one below, with your final path and the exact device, for people that may have the same exact setup.
A couple of days ago another user and I tried to install it, on a phone S5?, over the phone type conversation and we were not successful. He ended up installing it in the Device Storage, which at least gives you access to the files. TV

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[fly...@yahoo.com]

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 4:45:35 PM UTC-8, .com wrote:

Hi Charlie and everyone.
In the later Android Versions, 5.xxx and after we found out that Google / Android have added restrictions to Not allow us to run in / access the External SDcard. I do not the reason for it, my guess is because none of the Google tablets have external cards?
The only workaround, where you can still get to see / manipulate your files is to install Avare in the Device Storage / internal sd card / storage. After you install there you can view / access your files normally, as you would in the External.
Follow the same procedure as in the ExtSDcard installation, except that the the final path is .../DeviceStorage/Android/data/com.ds.avare.
Make sure you first create the com.ds.avare folder first. TV

PS According to some users, on some devices with Android 5.xx or higher, the installation in the external SDcard may still work. It's definitely worth trying.

[E.A.A. Ed]

Recently, my phone was updated to a Samsung-SM-G360V, running Android 5.1.1 patch 2015-11-01. At first I could not figure out how to access the SD card. I was able to use the file manager to create the correct folder, but Avare's default external location was not working as it was installing files on system memory, (not good as the memory is limited), rather than the SD card.

However, while playing around, I found a folder on the system file area called storage, in the folder, I found another folder called extSdCard, which was the link to the SD Card.

If you have a new Samsung device, it might be useful to snoop through the system files for a link to the SD Card. Picture inserted.

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

On LG G3 (5.1.1) and LG G Pad X8.3 (5.0.2): /storage/external_SD/Android/data/com.ds.avare

On B&N Nook HD+ (CM 11.12): /storage/sdcard1/Android/data/com.ds.avare

Note:  The image you posted showed /storage/extEdCard/Android/Data/Com.ds.avare

While the FAT file system is case INsensitive, the regular Android file system is case SENSITIVE.  The Android file system logic may know to treat such a name as a match, but you are counting on other logic to do so as well.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ ) 

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[E.A.A. Ed]

Looked at my screenshot again, it shows /storage/extSdCard/Android/data/com.ds.avare This is what Avare found when looking for the path for the SD card. The caps are put in by the system, not me. An interesting item, this storage folder cannot be found by the file manager in my phone, however Avare had no trouble finding it.

I have included a screen shot of my SD path in phone's file browser.

Carl

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[James Roberts]

I'm having a problem installing the TPC charts. The others download and unzip OK. My phone uses the same directory as others that have posted on this board: storage/extSdCard/Android/data/com.ds.avare I have a 28 GB available on my SD card.  I get the following error when downloading the TPC charts:

Download Failed: TPC_b01d, code unable to unzip file, disk fullandroid.system.ErrnoException: open failed: ENOENT (No such file or directory)

Any ideas?  I have tried deleting and remaking the folder, restarting the phone, unmapping and remapping to the folder . . .

Thanks!

James

[Zubair Khan]

I suggest pointing Avare to store charts in /sdcard/Download. This is the folder where browser downloads files. Maybe that will help. In practical experience, people report gigs of free space but it is not of any value if their OS cannot allow apps to store data in those places that have gigs of free space. There is bunch of discussion of SD card on the forum and no universal solution.

Thanks

Z

--

[E.A.A. Ed]

Hi, I am the one, (or one of the ones), that posted the storage/extSdCard/Android/data/com.ds.avare workaround for Samsung devices. I had an old Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 and had trouble getting it to store files on the sdcard. Recently, I got a new phone, (yes, Samsung) and a Galaxy Tab 4, the path is the only one that leads to the external card. All the others, sdcard, sdcard0, download, and emulated storage all lead to system storage, not the external card. I performed several tests today with screenshots that confirm this, (will not post them at this time as I have a very busy next few days).

I did try to download the large files in the TCP section. The phone only got to 8% before giving up on it, the tablet got to 50% before fail. IMHO is that there may be some kind of restriction on file sizes, (via permissions?), in the Samsung devices.

Carl

[James Roberts]

The odd thing is that it is only the TPC charts that will not unzip. All others will work on my SD card under the storage/extSdCard/Android/data/com.ds.avare location.

[Zubair Khan]

Hello Richard.
Thanks for the intro. Its a pleasure to know you and your amazing work in CS. Lucky to have you on board.
Avare is a collective effort. I reply to almost all emails so it may seem like I contribute the most but that is not the case.
Regarding SD card, its a nightmare. We are trying to solve it since Android 5.0. Google tells us that SD card belongs to them and the phone manufacturer and apps have no business there.
If some app can access SD card then surely they are doing something not approved by 'authorities'. This means they will spend time fighting software updates and device compatibilities. We think this time could be used somewhere else.
I suggest this to users... if you run Avare on a device, make it an Avare device. Do not install other apps on it. Then only download charts you need.
Thanks
Z

On Jan 14, 2016 3:13 PM, "R Oaks" <ro...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mr. Khan,

I have been using Avare, since one of the VERY early versions, on several platforms and versions of Android.  I applaud that which you and, if I recall correctly, Peter have been and are doing.

To be brief, I am NOT unfamiliar with computers back to the days of DOS when I received my Master of Science from the University of Cincinnati College of Engineering and my thesis was a computer model coded in FORTRAN using multiple correlation regression analysis written on an IBM 1620 with 8K of memory and a removable 512K disk the size of a 33RPM record.  After college I was hired by a large city to be the project manager of the twelfth installation in the US of a computer system to control traffic signals in real-time.  While I was doing that, I wrote the code for City's first payroll system.  It too was written on the 1620 in FORTRAN ...not COBAL as IBM said 'it had to be done'.  The city was still using that program after I left over 10 years later.  I still write programs in BASIC.

To your credit the Avare system has grown and increased in features.  With that growth it will become more and more important for Avare to store and access the increases in data to the external micro SD card.  On a Samsung forum I recall someone saying that with one of the 'recent' Android versions, Google had made it difficult/impossible for programs such as Avare to write data to the microSD card.  I do not know if that is a true statement.

I have tried many ...many workarounds.  The most interesting was on an Android 4 platform I wrote data to its external microSD card on a path I had assigned.  Then transferred the micrdSD to an Android 5+ platform.  Established the correct matching path via Avare.  I could operate (...execute) Avare from this microSD ....BUT could not update (...write to) any of the data nor add charts.  So it would read ....but not write via the assigned Path.

Several individuals on the Forum have suggested ways that they say store the data to the external microSD card, but when I have followed their instructions, that data 'appears' to be resident on the removable micro SD, BUT when one checks the data it in-fact went to the internal memory not the removable.

For Avare's continued success and growth I feel it in increasing incumbent for you to fix the problem.

I have down-loaded iFly and it is capable of storing data to the microSD card.  Why are they able to do that when Avare can not?

Respectfully,

Richard Oaks
============

---

Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2016 09:27:01 -0500
Subject: Re: apps4av-forum Re: SD card storage
From: gove...@gmail.com
To: jwr...@gmail.com
CC: apps4a...@googlegroups.com

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[Zubair Khan]

James,
Which TPC fails?
I can download any I have chosen so far.
Z

[Zubair Khan]

Hi Ed
I have 2 samsung devices and I can download TPC on them. I dont think there is a size limit other that your SD card / internal memory size.
Which TPC?
Z

--

[E.A.A. Ed]

This is the screen capture of my phone's error message when downloading the TPC file.

Phone: Samsung SM-G360V

System Memory: 8gb, 1.51gb free

Android 5.1.1

32gb sd card 23.55gb free space

If not a permissions error, could it be a systems memory error - not enough free memory to run android and download the file before saving to sd card? (I am not sure if Android writes files to directory while downloading or if it keeps it in free memory and saves to file after downloading)

I got basically the same error message on my new Galaxy Tab 4, but it got to 50% before giving up.

Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 SM-T230MU

System Memory, 8gb, 2.91gb free

Android 4.42

32gb sd card 28gb free space

The tablet is a work in progress, I am still working on bloatware. The phone is a different animal as it not only has Google bloatware, it has Samsung junk ane the phone's service provider's junk. I wish I could order both without the added junk. Shouldn't have to resort to rooting, (which I might do to the tablet)

I don't really need the TCP files, but was just trying to see what kind of problems other users are having.

Carl

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[James Roberts]

I get the same error as Ed with any of the TPC charts. All the other charts download OK. I have a Samsung Galaxy Core Prime. Model number SM-G360T1.

Thank you,

James

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[Zubair Khan]

With the latest release, try using the third folder option to try to get to SD card. Its called "Try using SD card folder".

-Z

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Zubair Khan
apps4av.com
zk4u.blogspot.com
Sudbury, MA 01776

[David Root]

I have the same problem and error message, but for me it happened while downloading the approach plates.  It got all the way to FL (Florida) before "locking up".  Yet I still have almost a Gig free on the SD card.  Can I keep some of the files on the SD Card (say, sectionals) and others on the phone (plates)?

David Root

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi David and everyone.
I am not aware of a way to keep your Data / Charts, in separate directories, other will correct me if I am wrong, but you be able to get what you need, if you ihave sufficient Starage space, just try it again.
Can you post a Screenshot with the Tree / Directory path, where Avare is installed in your Phone, would look something like the pic attached, you may no have an External SD card? TV

[Warren Allred]

Same issue here - My Moto G simply will not let me download charts onto the SDCARD - If the App developers would allow the APP to be moved to the SDCARD we could store below it - Otherwise as everyone upgrades their ANDROID OS we are all doomed unless we buy phones with more internal memory.  Which I can't afford so it's back to Garmin for me.

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Warren.
Can you post the exact Make, Model, OS ver., etc. of your device. You should be able to use Avare in as little as 8GB of Internal SD card. You may have to Stop other apps from using your Resources / Storage / RAM. I tested Avare in a Samsung Tab3 and had CA, AZ, NV Charts and Plates working OK. If you need more info on how to install in your internal SdCard see if any of the previous posts help, or post here for more help. TV

[John W SBA]

> Moto G simply will not let me download charts onto the SDCARD

My understanding is that we're facing an Android problem when trying to
use external SD. I've read this in countless other apps and general
Android eLists and specialty websites. It can be done (even easily!) on
some devices, but on others (even from the same manufacturer!) it's
impossible without rooting (which few of us want to do). If you can do
it with whatever Garmin app or device you mentioned, the choice is of
course up to you. My own preference is to use Avare and deal with the
highly annoying limitations imposed on Android by Google.

After lots of hassles including an SD card failure (not uncommon with
external SD) that created really weird problems with many apps, I've
decided to run Avare and all its files in device memory. I severely
limit how many apps I install, and close everything using Android's
built-in Task Manager (which of course works differently on every
Android device I have) or just restart the device. That completely
solves all memory issues on my antique Motorola Droid X phones, my aged
Samsung S4 phones, and my orphaned 1st generation Nexus 7.

On the S4 with 16GB for example, the Android Application Manager lists
Avare as using 470MB (that's .47GB out of 16GB). That's with all charts
and materials loaded for the entire West coast plus HI. Keep in mind
that memory problems with active RAM is another Android problem
completely unrelated to SD vs. internal device memory, and it's a very
small number. That's why I close all other apps and clear them from
internal memory by using the Task Manager, before running Avare in
flight. For planning and quick reference on the ground I routinely run
Avare without closing anything or clearing RAM in this way, and rarely
have any problems. I just want to minimize Android going funky in
flight, and by turning the device over to Avare by clearing out
everything else in RAM that's never happened.

Happy Flying

[Zubair Khan]

Our policy on SD is whatever Google allows. Google allows moving apps to SD but that will save you 2 MB flash.

Read
https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/install-location.html

Read bullet number 2

App Install Location

The .apk file is saved on the external storage, but all private user data, databases, optimized .dex files, and extracted native code are saved on the internal device memory.

On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Warren Allred <alpine...@gmail.com> wrote:

Same issue here - My Moto G simply will not let me download charts onto the SDCARD - If the App developers would allow the APP to be moved to the SDCARD we could store below it - Otherwise as everyone upgrades their ANDROID OS we are all doomed unless we buy phones with more internal memory.  Which I can't afford so it's back to Garmin for me.

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[Melissa Schipul]

Hi TV!

Thanks so much for this and ending my frustration with my tablet having a small internal drive! I'm now able to store three times what I was before with some 50GB left on my card! Your screenshots were a huge help.

Melissa

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 12:13:00 PM UTC-5, fly...@yahoo.com wrote:

Hi Scott and everyone.
Look at the pictures below and  follow these steps to install on an external SDcard:
1-Create a Directory / folder in your external card, see pic. "ExtSdPath.jpg" create every Directory / folder, if they do not exist until you get the ...data/com.ds.avare.
2-In Avare Options... navigate with the up arrow until you get to the com.ds.avare, go trough every layer as depicted in pic. "AvaChrtLoc.jpg", you may not be able to get to the external SDcard without going to Storage first, just follow the path. Make sure you you create the com.ds.avare firstin the external card and the names may be a bit different depending on the OS version.
Post here if you need more help. TV


On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 8:25:13 AM UTC-8, scott boelke wrote:

ROOT is a locked folder. It's got the red lock. I cannot click on it :(

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 11:11:35 AM UTC-5, Ben Setnick wrote:

I had the same issue on the S5.  Adjoining that Samsung is consistent, you'll need to go up to the root directory, then to /storage/extsdcard and create your folder there.

[eschlanser]

Wow! An Android device dedicated to running Avare? i was all set to buy a xgps 150a for my TF201. Now I guess I have to buy another device. Hopefully it doesn't have to be a nice new one. eBay should be a source. Should be a tablet for screen size for these old eyes. Can you suggest a device to buy?
Eric
Avare noob

[Rivpilot]

I want to store Avare data(not the app) on my phone’s external sd card.  The path is /storage/0000-0000/Android/data/com.ds.avare.  I created the com.ds.avare directory with the ES File Explorer app.  When I try to set the path using the Charts Storage Folder options under preferences I am unable to select the 0000-0000 directory.  All three options give me the same result.  Is there a step I am missing?

Samsung Galaxy S7

Android ver 6.0.1

[John W SBA]

> I want to store Avare data(not the app) on my phone’s external sd card.

Seems to me Google doesn't want us to do that, because they'd prefer we
store everything in their cloud where they have full use of it. I've
had plenty of hassles trying to use SD chips on a variety of Android
devices with different OS versions and manufacturers. Some just don't
seem possible, others have worked after lots of experimentation, and a
few have worked after hassle but then stopped working when there's an
update for the device or Android. Avare has made it easier when it can
be done, by building in a very basic file browser because Google
somewhat allows apps to store their own data.

The bottom line though is that every device and version is different so
you should be prepared for it not to work or to possibly stop working at
some point. As for your particular S7, I suggest reading about SD app
data storage on sites dedicated to that goal. Then please post whatever
you find out here, regardless of whether you get it to work.

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Riv and everyone.
Unfortunately Android / Google is Not allowing the Data to be stored in the External SD card in the newer OS versions 441? and up.
You can still store it in the Internal SD Card  / storage and view /get access to you your file, but as far as I know this is the best it can be done at this stage. TV

[Dean Gibson ATP/CFI]

On my three LG devices (one G3/VS985 phone and two X8.3 Gpad/VK815 tablets), all running Android 6.0, I have no problem within Avare navigating to the root directory, then selecting /storage, then selecting the xxxx-xxxx (microSD card) directory (even though it has a padlock on it), then selecting Android/data/com.ds.avare in turn.

However, before I do the above, I use the default File Manager (you can remove the card and use Windows instead) to create (under com.ds.avare) subdirectories Plans, Cycles/Major, and Cycles/Minor.  That makes it easy to put different Avare stuff in different places.

Buying decisions of Android devices should (in my opinion) be based on what they can do, rather than TV ads.  This is especially true for users who try to charge their devices in a microwave oven (see recent news stories). :)

Humor aside, I wonder how hard it would be to adapt Avare to run on Windows tablets.  Because Windows supports NTFS on microSD cards, they don't use the crippled security model that Google has forced on FAT32 external media (which doesn't have innate security built in).

Further, I have been investigating and using both Android and Windows internal and external device encryption, and Microsoft is way ahead of Google in ease of use, recovery, and ruggedness.  In particular, for my purposes, Android encryption on external media is almost unusable, but it works fine on Windows.

-- Dean  ( http://airmen.mailpen.com/airman/dean/ ) 

[Rivpilot]

Android is a strange beast.  My Galaxy Tab S is running Android ver 6.0.1.  The path to the external SD card is /storage/3637-3363/Android/data/com.ds.avare.  Avare has no problem when I select this path.  All of the data files are on the SD card.

[Rivpilot]

Here is how I was able to get Avare to store charts on the SD card on a Verizon Galaxy S7 running Android 6.0.1

Goto Setting - Applications - Application Manager.

Select the Avare application

Select Permissions and turn on Storage.

I did a Force Stop but don't know if this was necessary.

I can now set the Chart Storage Folder path to the SD card folder. /storage/00000-0000/Android/data/com.ds.avare 

[ourf...@earthlink.net]

Samsung Tab 3 running Android 4.42. I can store and access the data on an SD card (extSdCard.Android.data.com.ds.avare) and the program works fine. The problem I'm having is that when I hold the home button to close the program, I get a process com.android.systemui has stopped error, and can't close the program.
Definitely caused by Avare having data on the SD card, as I hard reset the system, and the problem went away until I loaded the Avare data to the SD card.

Thanks,

Chip

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Chip.
I have Avare installed on  Samsung Tab3 7in. 412, Tab A, Tab4, Tab2.. and I do not get that Error.
You may want to reinstall, or post a screen pic of  your install location. TV

[ourf...@earthlink.net]

Unfortunately I'm not on the android device, but the location of the data files is: storage/extSdCard/Android/data/com.ds.avare.

I used the "try external folder" selection in preferences after creating the directory. Avare ver. 7.6.6. The app is on the device, the SD card data is 546MB.

I've reloaded it a couple of times, and did a hard reset to wipe the system as well. Problem persists.

Thanks

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Chip.
The Path looks right but I was never able to get the app to install it there without first manually selecting the Path with the Up / red arrow. My Tab 4 has 442 and my Tab 3 412 uses the same path and it works in that Path also.Try to choose manually? TV

[Scott Morris]

If you look at the app "maps.me" it has a direct utility to store map files with a single click - is there a reason that we have to spend a good deal of time trying to get avare to store maps in the sd card?  I realize that Android spoofs memory into looking like sd cards and other silliness, but if another app can do it...

[Zubair Khan]

Maps.me is doing exactly the same. I compared the code and its same. Maybe they are creating extra folders for you. But their solution to find the external sd card folder is same and similalry flawed as thatbof avare.
Regards
Zubair


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-------- Original Message --------

On Jan 25, 2017, 10:30 PM, Scott Morris wrote:

If you look at the app "maps.me" it has a direct utility to store map files with a single click - is there a reason that we have to spend a good deal of time trying to get avare to store maps in the sd card?  I realize that Android spoofs memory into looking like sd cards and other silliness, but if another app can do it...

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[Scott Morris]

You're exactly correct - I have a separate post detailing what I found and how to work with it (link below).  Thanks.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer#!topic/apps4av-forum/yYozdBaGWd0

[John Wiley]

Melissa wrote:

> It gets to 50% and then says "Download
> Failed TPC_h24a, code unable to unzip file, disk fullibcore. io.

> ErrnoException: open failed: ENOENT (No such file or directory)"

I got a similar error on my Samsung S7 phone yesterday. These problems seem to me related to the way Google has tried to prevent SD cards from functioning on Android devices, and in my case at least, Samsung's ongoing efforts to allow it. My impression is the SD works when I first install Avare on a device, then stops working when Google puts out Android updates. My theory is that this has to do with how Samsung tries to get around the Google restrictions and changes.

Anyway, I fixed it by installing the free open source OI File Manager. The app File Manager that comes installed on my Samsung devices doesn't show as many options for selecting the SD card (chip). In the OI app, across the top on the row beneath the title bar is an icon representing the Home (aka "root" aka "/") directory, followed by boxes labeled "storage" "emulated" and an icon representing the SD card. I have found that this sometimes shows different contents than my actual SD chip when I use Settings/Unmount and physically remove the chip from the Android device and put it in a computer or use an adapter to read it via the OTG (USB) port on my Samsung devices. So to fix the problem (so far) on my S7, I used OI to find the actual name of the particular SD chip when it's installed in my phone. I clicked on the box labeled "storage" mentioned above, and saw the following list:
6757-258D
emulated
enc_emulated
self

My impression is that the first line is the actual chip location, and the others are "emulations" of that chip provided by Samsung as a strategy for circumventing Google restrictions. So in the OI app I tapped the 6757-258D line and - Bingo! It lists the same stuff actually stored on the chip, as seen by computers and via the USB on my Android devices. So with the chip back in the phone and back in Avare's Chart Storage Folder Prefs, I used the "Up" option to reach "/storage" and see the same list as in OI, starting with 6757-258D. I tapped that 6757-258D item, then Android, then data, then (oddly enough at the bottom of the list with a floppy disc icon) com.ds.avare and now it works, and the red line in that Prefs item reads:
/storage/6757-258D/Android/data/com.ds.avare (I've successfully also done the same thing with my Samsung Tab 8).

scott boelke wrote:

As high UP as i can get i see 'sdcard' but it's still on a phone subdirectory.

I don't know if what I've done on my Samsung devices will work on yours, but suggest you try the OI app to see if that's helpful in finding it.

Why was this extremely data-fat app created without ability to use SD card?

Three things:
1. Android is not currently designed to handle anything more than very small (by contemporary standards) data files. Even though our devices advertise ample storage, it's not easy for apps to make full use of it.

2. Avare actually uses relatively little data, considering the size of the original FAA materials it provides. Go to the FAA website and download one of those items directly, and you'll get some sense of the heroic work done by the Avare team to make it work in Android.

3. The ability for apps to use SD cards is severely crippled in Android at present. Strategies to make it work across multiple devices and Android versions are daunting for app developers and confusing for users.

Thanks to the ongoing efforts by volunteers on the Apps4Av dev team, and by all of us freely sharing out tricks and tips (and complaints) here, so far we've found solutions.

Speaking of which, one other thing I did to solve this storage problem in the past was to pretty much dedicate a device to Avare. That's on my old v1 Nexus 7 tablet which (being a "pure" Google device) lacks SD capability. In order to power that one in flight via an adapter from the USB/OTG charger port to the aircraft "cigar lighter" socket, I can't even use OTG to read an SD chip via USB adapter. So on that N7 are only a handful of small apps other than Avare, I close all of them except Avare in flight, I only load the charts and materials needed for a flight. I've also even occasionally done Un/Re-install of Avare when there's a new version coinciding with chart updates, as a way of deleting charts that seem to sometimes get left behind during updates, though I think Avare's been fixed to find and delete those now.

Anyway, I hope some of this might be helpful, and that anyone with more or different info or problems will continue to post followups in this topic.

[Melissa Schipul]

These problems seem to me related to the way Google has tried to prevent SD cards from functioning on Android devices, and in my case at least, Samsung's ongoing efforts to allow it. My impression is the SD works when I first install Avare on a device, then stops working when Google puts out Android updates. My theory is that this has to do with how Samsung tries to get around the Google restrictions and changes.

Well I just downloaded a few WAC charts to see if they would give me an SD error and they did not. And I looked and they are "taking up space" on my SD card. So, my path for everything else is working and I am not sure I want to mess with it. Why the issue with the TPC charts?

On Wednesday, December 16, 2015 at 10:58:18 AM UTC-5, scott boelke wrote:

Hi. Samsung S4, ATT software. I tried the procedure that's supposed to work and when I click on charts storage folder, no matter how much i click the UP arrow, I cannot get UP enough to see the SD card. As high UP as i can get i see 'sdcard' but it's still on a phone subdirectory. I've created the extension, nevertheless, and it still does not go there when I click "OK".  It still goes where the developers told it to go. I love this app, but my phone does not have the free GB this app gobbles. Anyone know how I can reach the real SD card and actually create a folder that the app will actually go to when I click OK? Why was this extremely data-fat app created without ability to use SD card?

[Zubair Khan]

TPC chart is 5x bigger than WAC.
Z

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[Melissa Schipul]

Well, maybe so but I downloaded some 10 WAC charts without any issue to my external SD card. Not sure why there is a "path problem" with the TPC charts. Melissa

[Zubair Khan]

A new release tomorrow may fix this. Its not about disk space but ability of your device to handle a large file.

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[Jeff LaViolette]

Hello, new to the forum.  I have been a fan of Avare for over a year without problem.  Yesterday something went wrong with my version on the Samsung Tab 4.  I updated the database and 2 sectional charts I use, when I got to the plane to fly  all I get is a black screen and the notice "The required data file is missing and must be downloaded".  Nopthing I do or download fixes this...

I have been messing with this for a few hours and cannot get it resolved.   I have completely uninstalled and reinstalled and re downloaded everything.  I cannot figure out why I get this error.  I have been thru many attempts as mentioned in this thread...no success.

Oddly,  I checked my Samsung Galaxy S4 version as well.  I haven't used that but maybe once in the last year, and I get the same message.  My old version on an old Nexus 7 works.

I had to resort to my iPad with foreflight on this particular flight (my stratus was in a different airplane though)

Any ideas?  thanks for your help....blue skies

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Jeff and everyone.
I would assume that you are using Avare installed in the extSDcard? If that is correct I would suggest that after you download your Databases / Charts you exit Avare, restart your device, Power your device down and restart.
The big G / AStudio is making it more and more difficult for users that have devices with external Storage. I have a Tab 4 and it works for me in the extSDcard, but if everything fails you may want to try installing Avare in the Default location. I know that is not desirable, but it's another troubleshooting step you can take? TV

[Jeff LaV]

Thank you, yes I have tried it both ways...Completely uninstalled and then installed on device storage (not the external SD card).  and I have rebooted...

The downloads says they do complete....  I have not had Avare installed on the extSDcard

I have no idea how Avare won't work on either my Tab 4 or S4

[John W SBA]

> uninstalled and then installed on device storage ... rebooted

Another approach to fixing this might be to look for anything common to
the two devices. First in my mind is whether you may have interference
from another app that's on both devices. Maybe try uninstalling other
apps in reverse order that they were installed, rebooting and checking
to see if it helped? Maybe you could also try booting into Safe Mode?
Because many apps do weird stuff not approved by the Android "rules" I
have almost nothing other than Avare installed on the two tablets I use
pretty much only for flying. I'm very cautious about installing apps,
and always go over their Permissions in detail first.

I haven't tried this, but another option might be to create a user
account just for flying and have that be the one your device boots into.
That could keep *some* apps from auto-loading at boot, and might fix
the problem.

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Jeff.
Post the Tab 4 OS version, and look in the Settings>General>Security>Unknown sources mark it temporarily and see if it helps?
Post a screenshot of the Menu>Download>Databases and Vfr Sectional area expanded.
Another thing to try is an older version here: http://mamba.dreamhosters.com/share/  maybe 765, but if have uninstall your present version first. TV
This is very unusual. I have AOS ver 442.TV

[Jeff LaV]

Tab 4 OS android version 5.1.1  Kernel version 3.4.0-5306775

I changed the security to unknown, still no joy on Avare

Screenshot not needed, but will get it....Databases dates are 02/02/17 - 03/02/17 (same as Plates)

VFR Sectional charts are same date range (I installed one after uninstall/reboot, Green Bay 02-02-17 - 03/02/17)

[Jeff LaV]

well third time is a charm.  I deleted all Avare Data, then did a reboot.   Then uninstalled Avare and did a reboot.  Then I reinstalled Avare and loaded database and sectionals, and it appear to be back working again.  I also did register it under a different email address....so thanks for all your help...support to the developer on it;s way again.

[fly...@yahoo.com]

Hi Jeff.
I am glad you got it working, if you can try to get it installed in the Simulation mode, assuming you can get to that level, that will save you the issue of not having to deal with the No GPS / proper location / areas. TV

[John W SBA]

> I have uninstalled many apps and reverted bloatware to factory versions

I'm happy to see that you subsequently reported it's working! :D

I wonder if one of the apps you deleted/reverted took care of it, but
you couldn't tell until after reboot because the app had auto-loaded
itself and was still active in background.

The other thing I'd been about to ask is whether you might have run
across the thing that's tricked me a few times. Avare has sometimes
seemed to default to a location somewhere in Kansas and given me the
black Map view with "Download" message until I have GPS on in Navigate
mode and Find my local airport as a Destination.

Thanks for sharing your issue, the things you did, and your celebration
in success. It's going to help others searching this Forum for similar
issues.

Happy Flying -j

[Sam Hoskins]

New to Avare and I just bought a Samsung tablet, T-113 sporting Android 4.4.4.  I too was having all sorts of trouble trying to load the SD card.  Somewhere in the thread above I saw reference to "emulated" and to the Avare browser. So using the Avare browser, I simply kept hitting UP until the word "emulated was no longer visible.  I scrolled through until I found the Holy Grail /storage/extSdCard/android/data, and there it was.  Re-booted my tablet and now the charts download to the right place.

One thing I noticed, the charts seem to download a lot slower onto the SD card than they did on the internal memory.

[John Belluardo]

For anyone wanting to load Avare and all the charts to your SD card we now have a new option. I used my old 16 GB Galaxy S5 and removed all the Samsung & phone carrier "bloatware" and did a clean install of TWRP recovery and loaded the latest version of Lineage OS (formally Cyanogenmod). I plugged in a 64 MB SD card and the OS allows you to assign the SD card as primary phone memory. My old phone is now lightning fast with plenty of memory.

[John W SBA]

> For anyone wanting to load Avare and all the charts to your SD card

This is very welcome news to me, John and I appreciate you sharing it
with all of us!

> removed all the Samsung & phone carrier "bloatware"

Oh the joy! Lately I've been upping the priority of my intention to do
that with our two old S4s and your post adds yet another nudge.

> Lineage OS ... assign the SD card as primary phone memory.

Exceptional! This increases my interest even more!

> now lightning fast with plenty of memory.

Are you able to also expand the amount of actual app RAM? My impression
is that was a major bottleneck in early Android versions. What version
were you able to install? Maybe part of your speedup is due to a newer
Android version with better optimization, plus elimination of the
insidious background bloatware?

[John Belluardo]

I am running the latest version of android 7.1.2 on my S5. With over 70 MB of combined memory available application size should no longer be an issue. Lineage is avaiilable to most models of Samsung phones. The only exception I am aware of is the ATT version of the S4 that has a locked boot loader. All others will accept TWRP and Lineage.I am also running Avare an an old HP Touchpad running Evervolv Android 7.1.2. I am testing my newly built Stratux unit with it up in my attic and tracking ADS-B traffic for over 100 miles from home. I may take the hardware aloft in my Luscombe this weekend. Being new to Avare I can't find any info on the distance for targets based on the blue, pink & red traffic targets or any audio alert output for a headset. I won't be able to test weather until I can get high enough to recive from a tower.

[John W SBA]

> I am testing my newly built Stratux unit

...

> I can't find any info on the distance for targets

I'd like to move these parts of the discussion to a related Topic here
(maybe https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/apps4av-forum/dcr4ZzjMGWA
for example) or start a new one. Do you have a preference between those
options?

I may be building a Stratux soon too, and as described in my 10/11/2017
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/apps4av-forum/C11ZDlXcDkE post
I'm also re-testing the "Pro" app by Mike at HIZ. I'll be trying out
his new Avare-compatible receiver hardware currently in development too.
I'll report on all this in related topics here.

[John Gotschall]

Maybe it should be obvious, but I don't get it yet. I flew under the local mode C veil today and instead of just blue traffic dots (which I could see while using avare on the ground) there were pink and red dots also. Where is the legend to explain traffic dots data/color, etc?.. are there settings for the appearance of the traffic dots? And by traffic dots I am talking about other aircraft shown on a vfr chart while adsb in uat mode is operating and while I am flying,. Are there settings other than "within x distance", and btw does "within x distance" mean exactly.. horizontally, vertically, diagonally??

Since I don't use any other efb, so I don't know what all the other efb's should work or look like, in case they are the same.

Thanks in advance.

Ps

I wasted several test flights by assuming the otg radio would connect eventually while flying, but no. I have to sit and wait for the radio device to wake up Android os and I have to tell Android os it is ok to proceed before I spin the airplane prop. if the otg connector falls out in flight.. problem there.

[Chip Davis]

And I assume that the traffic vector line is proportional to the speed
of the target, but I can't figure out what that relationship is.  Is
it absolute ground speed, relative to me (closing speed), something else?

-Chip-

[John Rodkey]

My best guess (based on Avare's simplicity commitment) is that it's absolute ground speed as reported by the ADSB-out traffic.