Avare X issues

[Dana]

I just installed Avare X on my phone and my computer.  I like the look, and realize it's a work in progress, but I see some issues and loss of functionality.

1.  I like being able to drag the ribbon bar at the top, but having only one line is a big regression, severely reducing the amount of information available at a glance.  Given a choice, I'd much rather have two lines than draggability.

2.  Where are the on-map flight plan controls?  It looks like you have to go to the plan page and click on that leg, then back to the map page?

3.  No preferences or settings menu?  In particular I see no way to change from NM/knots to SM/mph?

4.  Is a plan always "active"?  And no "simulation" mode?

5.  No more dragging of waypoints (rubberbanding) on the map page?

6.  No labels (2, 5, 10, etc.) on the distance rings?

7.  I see nothing on the download page to get weather... is it automatically downloaded?

8.  What happened to the obstacles display?

9.  I wanted to install it on my Lenovo TB-8705F tablet (my primary navigation device) but it doesn't seem to be available for it?  It's less than a year old, has Android 10, 3GB RAM.

10.  If I create a flight plan on the Windows version, how to I send that to the mobile device?

11. Also in the Windows version, with no GPS it always has the position far, far away from my location... is there any way to fix that?

12.  Finally, is there a helpfile or other documentation?

[Apps4av Support]

On Wed, May 29, 2024, 5:52 PM Dana <dmha...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just installed Avare X on my phone and my computer.  I like the look, and realize it's a work in progress, but I see some issues and loss of functionality.

1.  I like being able to drag the ribbon bar at the top, but having only one line is a big regression, severely reducing the amount of information available at a glance.  Given a choice, I'd much rather have two lines than draggability.

So far one line is supported. There are also some boxes missing. It's a test on who needs what and chance to throw away what's bloat.

2.  Where are the on-map flight plan controls?  It looks like you have to go to the plan page and click on that leg, then back to the map page?

None. It's much easier to move waypoints now. It's one extra touch for less clutter on screen. 

3.  No preferences or settings menu?  In particular I see no way to change from NM/knots to SM/mph?

Another one of those extra clean up. Not difficult to add but no one use km/he an SM / he is mostly for airspeeds because we still fly older planes. What else do you use SM for in navigation?

4.  Is a plan always "active"?  And no "simulation" mode?

Correct. You have gotten used to something that Avare invented. Simulation mode. It is removed now. You don't need it.

5.  No more dragging of waypoints (rubberbanding) on the map page?

No, not yet. That seems to be liked by many and will appear in a few release.

6.  No labels (2, 5, 10, etc.) on the distance rings?

Clutter. Can be added easily but it's easily visible if you are in an inner circle or outside circle. 

7.  I see nothing on the download page to get weather... is it automatically downloaded?

All weather is automatic now.

8.  What happened to the obstacles display?

No obstacles. They are already printed on the maps and you don't care about them in IFR. 

9.  I wanted to install it on my Lenovo TB-8705F tablet (my primary navigation device) but it doesn't seem to be available for it?  It's less than a year old, has Android 10, 3GB RAM.

Try again. Have enabled devices as low as 2GB now.

10.  If I create a flight plan on the Windows version, how to I send that to the mobile device?

You need to log in once. It is automatic. No need to do anything.

11. Also in the Windows version, with no GPS it always has the position far, far away from my location... is there any way to fix that?

Windows does provide GPS location otherwise connect a GPS received to your laptop. You can see your location by finding airport near you then selecting Show On Map.

12.  Finally, is there a helpfile or other documentation?

-

No. But feel free to touch the i Icons anywhere you see in the app for help.

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[azch...@juno.com]

I got it to open finally, and downloaded the charts.  It won't go back to the home page.  It just stays on the download page.  I can't even get it to close, so I can start over.  I'll have to shut down the computer.

 

I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I'm not liking this new AvareX very much.  The legacy version works so much better.  I wonder why you guys are spending so much energy on this new version?  For me, I'm sticking with the old Avare.  I just don't see a reason to change except for it will run on windows...  Maybe soon?

 

Rick

Tucson

 

[Apps4av Support]

I highly suggest for you staying on the old app. You are very used to it and expect X to work like it. A user who has not used the old app will find X better. 

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[Dana]

On Wednesday, May 29, 2024 at 6:29:50 PM UTC-4 app...@gmail.com wrote:

1.  I like being able to drag the ribbon bar at the top, but having only one line is a big regression, severely reducing the amount of information available at a glance.  Given a choice, I'd much rather have two lines than draggability.

So far one line is supported. There are also some boxes missing. It's a test on who needs what and chance to throw away what's bloat.

In portrait mode, especially for those of us using smaller devices (I use an 8" tablet but also the phone as backup, or for shorter flights when I don't bring the tablet) there's just not enough information on one line. On the old version, I have 6 items: MSL, GS, Next, Brg Next, Dist Next, and ETE next.  In X, I can only get 5.

2.  Where are the on-map flight plan controls?  It looks like you have to go to the plan page and click on that leg, then back to the map page?

None. It's much easier to move waypoints now. It's one extra touch for less clutter on screen. 

So going back to the plan page is the way to do it?  Not a big deal, I guess, and it does reduce clutter.

3.  No preferences or settings menu?  In particular I see no way to change from NM/knots to SM/mph?

Another one of those extra clean up. Not difficult to add but no one use km/he an SM / he is mostly for airspeeds because we still fly older planes. What else do you use SM for in navigation?

If (as it does) my ASI reads in SMPH, I'll want to do all the planning in SM, and see groundspeed in SMPH, otherwise I have to constantly convert.  I suspect that the Avare user base is heavy on those older planes, maybe because Avare is free and we're cheap. :)

I understand, and to an extent agree with, the desire to clean things up and eliminate unnecessary menu options, but make it too simple and it'll be annoying because you can't make it do what you want.  I think you're going to need at least a basic preferences menu, though I agree the old one was too extensive and convoluted.

 

5.  No more dragging of waypoints (rubberbanding) on the map page?

No, not yet. That seems to be liked by many and will appear in a few release.

Good,

6.  No labels (2, 5, 10, etc.) on the distance rings?

Clutter. Can be added easily but it's easily visible if you are in an inner circle or outside circle. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by that but if the distance rings dynamically scale according to zoom (which is how I set it in the old version, though X doesn't seem to be that way?) having the number on the ring makes it immediately obvious what size the ring is.

7.  I see nothing on the download page to get weather... is it automatically downloaded?

All weather is automatic now.

I like that.

8.  What happened to the obstacles display?

No obstacles. They are already printed on the maps and you don't care about them in IFR. 

I liked having the obstacles displayed if low; they jump out at you even if you're not paying close attention to the chart.  How many people actually use Avare for IFR?

9.  I wanted to install it on my Lenovo TB-8705F tablet (my primary navigation device) but it doesn't seem to be available for it?  It's less than a year old, has Android 10, 3GB RAM.

Try again. Have enabled devices as low as 2GB now.

I will try it again.

Overall, a good start, and thanks for all the effort!

 

[Apps4av Support]

Thanks for the feedback. 

I know of 3 people who use it for IFR. Myself, Jeff, and Pete. And we would like it to do more for IFR. Will add SM/NM.

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[David Farleman]

You can add me to the list of people that use it for IFR.  Love that you would like it to do more for IFR.

I like the changes you made to the plate page making the top and bottom easier to see/read at a glance.

-Dave

[gldre...@gmail.com]

> I liked having the obstacles displayed if low; they jump out at you even if you're not paying close attention to the chart.  How many people actually use Avare for IFR?

I always use Avare when IFR. The geo-tagged approach plates are especially handy. Of course, I also have a certified IFR GPS that I monitor appropriately, but Avare is better.

[Jeffrey Ross]

Probably more than you realize...

flight today the forecast is CAVU, but my return trip later this week has the forecast with rain and I'm hoping I don't have to deal with TS

The georeferenced approach plates I agree are great, I learned with paper so I didn't have the luxury of georeferenced charts, however there were other things you can use for situational awareness.  One of the best was the use of a LOM, the ADF would point to the marker so you could see where ATC was vectoring you for the approach.

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[Dana]

Ok, I guess I'm just not on that wavelength... I assumed all the IFR guys were using FF.  Regardless, I liked having the obstacle display for VFR flying as a safety enhancer, especially in poor visibility.  In an open cockpit biplane, most flying is down around 1000' AGL where towers are a real concern.

[Apps4av Support]

Its no big deal adding obstacles. No worries will add it to the list. 
Meanwhile, one suggestion to all users is to start using features that are not in legacy Avare. Look into backup, checklists and airplane management, and documents.

Legacy Avare is complete. X will see more development going forward. 

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Regards,

Apps For Aviators Support,

We encourage users to use the Forum for all questions. Any updates to the forum will help other users, who might have similar questions.
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[azch...@juno.com]

We get very little actual IFR conditions here in Arizona, but I used Avare during my last IPC, and I use it regularly on the TD2 flight simulator at our FBO to stay current.  I also use it all the time with my home flight simulator.  Why anyone would spend the money for an Apple Ipad and foreflight, is a mystery to me.  Avare is an amazing program!  Thank you to the guys and gals who developed it...

 

I may have a dumb question though.  What does the geo referencing do with the plates?  I've seen it accidentally activated at times, but I always stop it.

 

Rick

Tucson

[Jeffrey Ross]

Geo-referenced simply means that the aircraft position is depicted on the approach plate.

You might be confusing track up/north up on the approach plate.  I tried track up on the approach plate once, it became very confusing and I quickly switched back to North up.  I usually use track up for the on route stuff, but that's my personal preference. 

Jeff

Sent from my cell phone 

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[Andrew Sarangan]

I am a CFI, and I come across all sorts of misconceptions. One of these misconceptions is that Foreflight is "certified" for IFR, while others like Avare aren't. FAA doesn't care if you have printed charts, electronic charts, or even a handwritten chart on the back of a napkin. It is a personal preference. I've been using Avare for IFR and VFR for many years, and never had any trouble. The georeferenced terminal procedures charts are fantastic. In Foreflight, you have to buy an extra subscription for that feature. I have fun watching my students struggle through the maze of menus to pull up something simple like a chart supplement. But somehow it has been etched into their minds that flying without a FF subscription is a sin. I have to admit, FF has done a great job marketing their product. It is also true that FF has a lot more planning features than avare, but in my opinion, they are just bells and whistles, and most GA pilots don't need those them for regular flying. 

[azch...@juno.com]

Well, I'm really confused now.  I can see my position on approach plates without selecting geo referencing.  What I see is like a bull's eye and cross hairs.  Is that something different?  Regardless, Avare works so great on approaches, as well as everything else!  It just gives you another level of situational awareness that really helps!  I have to force myself to practice approaches without it just to make sure I don't get complacent and rely on it too much.  Anyway, I love it!

Rick

 

On Sun, 02 Jun 2024 17:53:22 -0400 Jeffrey Ross <je...@bubble.org> writes:

Geo-referenced simply means that the aircraft position is depicted on the approach plate.

You might be confusing track up/north up on the approach plate.  I tried track up on the approach plate once, it became very confusing and I quickly switched back to North up.  I usually use track up for the on route stuff, but that's my personal preference. 

Jeff

Sent from my cell phone 

-------- Original message --------

From: azch...@juno.com

Date: 6/2/24 9:50 AM (GMT-05:00)

To: dmha...@gmail.com

Cc: apps4a...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Apps4Av] Avare X issues

We get very little actual IFR conditions here in Arizona, but I used Avare during my last IPC, and I use it regularly on the TD2 flight simulator at our FBO to stay current.  I also use it all the time with my home flight simulator.  Why anyone would spend the money for an Apple Ipad and foreflight, is a mystery to me.  Avare is an amazing program!  Thank you to the guys and gals who developed it...

 

I may have a dumb question though.  What does the geo referencing do with the plates?  I've seen it accidentally activated at times, but I always stop it.

 

Rick

Tucson

 

On Sun, 2 Jun 2024 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) Dana <dmha...@gmail.com> writes:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/apps4av-forum/3b25c196-2107-435f-8816-40f454277233n%40googlegroups.com.

 

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[Suzanne C.]

I copy/paste Sarangan's sentiments/statements.

I use Avare for IFR and VFR and think its a fantastic tool.  The simplicity and ease of use is phenomenal.

Perhaps the cross-platform edition will win some over 😇.

In the new ACS. The FAA acknowledges acceptable use of EFB... but a smart pilot will have backup(s)...

I recently saw a Ff acolyte struggle with creating a W&B envelope. It was soooo painful to watch...especially their search of the help forum!

Sent from my high-tech Samsung device 📲 

c!

-------- Original message --------

From: Andrew Sarangan <asar...@gmail.com>

Date: 6/2/24 18:21 (GMT-05:00)

To: Apps4Av Forum <apps4a...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [Apps4Av] Avare X issues

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[Curtis Miller]

I have been using the original Avare app for many years for both IFR and VFR... it has worked fantastic for me... the one thing I do like is you can not only georeference the plates but when you have it in map view you can actually have the plates overlay the map... "Select Layer Type" in map view menu... I hope that's available in AvareX

Thanks!!!

Curtis

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[Apps4av Support]

It's available in both. Plate overlay the map.

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[command...@gmail.com]

I was unable to install X on either of my tablets (they are older) but I did get it installed on my phone. While it does allow for plate overlay in X, I'm going to miss being able to customize things like opacity.

[Suzanne C.]

Really...I will miss the transparency if that's the case..I liked being able to still see the chart under the fixes...

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