Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Patrick Nwakuba: One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

Ayo Ojutalayo: In the event that Biafra's existence happens through peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).

Patrick Nwakuba: If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

Ayo Ojutalayo:  If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his Constitutional Conference?

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

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From: Patrick Nwakuba <pnwa...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Cool Breeze;

Don't you think the more we keep responding to this Stupid Rueben Okalana's stupid rants, the more he thinks he is an opinion maker for the Ikwerre? One thing must be very clear to him and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

P. Nwakuba 

Having my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Okoi and Rueben Emekna Naijaremain.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 10, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

Emeka Okala:

Look at you. Just as we have Hausa Banza, we also have Igbo Banza and you're sure Igbo Banza. But please check your writing. It is TURN around not TOWN around. But honestly Igbo doesn't need the SS for any referendum. They can do it alone. But who are the SS anyway? If you look at the SS, Igbo make up the largest group in the SS. So those Igbo in the SS, should they be allowed to join their kiths and kins for the referendum or should they be forced to stay in your One Nigeria?

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

On Jul 10, 2016 8:42 AM, Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rev. Okala, absolutely! The minorities of the defunct Eastern Region will never forget the discrimination and deprivation they suffered in the defunct Eastern Region! It got so bad that  late Professor Eyo Ita was forced to resign his position as the Leader of Government Business in the defunct Eastern Regional House of Assembly because he was an ethnic minority! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Ayo Ojutalayo Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 13:23 To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; ofume....@gmail.com Reply To: ayooju...@yahoo.com Cc: odide...@gmail.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; ne...@frontpageafricaonline.com; pach...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; odide...@yahoo.com; africa...@gmail.com; AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com; collye...@hotmail.com; agw...@yahoo.com; drkcas...@shaw.ca; kcprince...@shaw.ca; edorege...@yahoo.co.uk; igbo...@yahoo.com; david...@yahoo.com; i...@usa.net; jnia...@gmail.com; pcdb...@yahoo.com; bolajip...@yahoo.com; alu...@gmail.com; awo...@mwebafrica.com; msjo...@aol.com; iban...@gmail.com; naij...@googlegroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com; nidan...@googlegroups.com; ozodi...@yahoo.ca; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; salihu...@gmail.com; USAAfric...@googlegroups.com; abuj...@gmail.com; vincent...@msn.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; igu...@hotmail.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; zekw...@yahoo.com; abrah...@yahoo.com; edo_g...@yahoo.com; erica...@aol.co.uk; king...@yahoo.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ozodi...@gmail.com; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; talkn...@yahoo.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; mmuh...@nigeriansenate.org; gak...@nigeriansenate.org; ve...@nigeriansenate.org; bhen...@nigeriansenate.org; gng...@nigeriansenate.org; jman...@nigeriansenate.org; pos...@nigeriansenate.org; aefer...@nigeriansenate.org; ua...@nigeriansenate.org; aoo...@nigeriansenate.org; au...@nigeriansenate.org; ougb...@nigeriansenate.org; euza...@nigeriansenate.org; ybra...@nigeriansenate.org; saki...@nigeriansenate.org; ar...@nigeriansenate.org; ii...@nigeriansenate.org; gl...@nigeriansenate.org; aba...@nigeriansenate.org; aay...@nigeriansenate.org; utaf...@nigeriansenate.org; nug...@nigeriansenate.org; sade...@nigeriansenate.org; ooh...@nigeriansenate.org; ain...@nigeriansenate.org; gsa...@nigeriansenate.org; asi...@nigeriansenate.org; made...@nigeriansenate.org; bolaj...@nigeriansenate.org; aade...@nigeriansenate.org; gse...@nigeriansenate.org; jik...@nigeriansenate.org; bibr...@nigeriansenate.org; ala...@nigeriansenate.org; ate...@nigeriansenate.org; in...@nigeriansenate.org; car...@yahoo.com; abi4...@yahoo.co.uk; limpt...@gmail.com; in...@apc.com.ng; adeyemoa...@yahoo.com; Christianan...@gmail.com; informativ...@yahoo.co.uk; IgboWor...@yahoogroups.com; abba...@gmail.com Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Sounds better as Igboexit or Igboremain! Before referendum, Igbo will need to get the Constitution amended making the referendum constitutional. First thing first!

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[Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla]

Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the Constitution.  

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Ayo Ojutalayo Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 06:32 To: Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com Reply To: Ayo Ojutalayo Cc: Okoi; NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo Subject: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

[Rex Marinus]

"There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi

Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.

Obi Nwakanma

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From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:44 AM
To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo
Subject: Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

[Sherif Anyanwu]

Nigeria is a signatory to this United Nations charter.

********************************************************

http://www.unpo.org/article/4957

"All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

The right to self-determination of peoples is recognized in many other international and regional instruments, including the Declaration of Principles of International Law Concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation Among States adopted by the UN General Assembly in 1970, 2, the Helsinki Final Act adopted by the Conference on Security and Co-operation in Europe (CSCE) in 1975, 3, the African Charter of Human and Peoples' Rights of 1981, 4, the CSCE Charter of Paris for a New Europe adopted in 1990, 5, and the Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action of 1993. 6, It has been affirmed by the International Court of Justice in the Namibia case 7, the Western Sahara case 8, and the East Timor case 9, in which its erga omnes character was confirmed. Furthermore, the scope and content of the right to self-determination has been elaborated upon by the UN Human Rights Committee 10, and the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination 11, and numerous leading international jurists." . . . . . .

"SECESSION OR SEPARATION FROM THE STATE

In the broader context of self-determination, separation or secession from the state of which a people forms a part should be regarded as a right of last resort. Thus, if the state and its successive governments have repeatedly and for a long period oppressed a people, violated the human rights and fundamental freedoms of its members, excluded its representatives from decision making especially on matters affecting the well-being and security of the people, suppressed their culture, religion, language and other attributes of the identity valued by the members, and if other means of achieving a sufficient degree of self-government have been tried and have clearly failed, then the question of secession can arise as a means for the restoration of fundamental rights and freedoms and the promotion of the well being of the people. This right could be regarded as analogous to the right of last resort of rebellion against tyranny and oppression referred to in the Preamble to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Peoples and communities may attempt to secede because independent statehood appears to them to form the only means of obtaining the level of freedom and security which they aspire to. In part, this is because the international legal and political system does not provide adequate forms of protection and guarantees to communities that are within the borders of independent states, regardless of their status within that state."

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Subject: [africanworldforum] To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2016 12:18:25 +0000

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[Wilson Iguade]

"... Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution?" By Rastafarian Dude (Obi Nwakanma).

Response: Given yours below based on the citation above, I suggest then that since you are saying the right to VOTE is the right to vote for ANYTHING, including Biafra EXIT from Nigeria, then I am using Obi's stupid logic to say that Nigerians have the right to VOTE to "posses" MACHINE GUNS and TANKS. 

Obi, you know nothing about governance, period. Writing prose is NOT the same as writing policy. 

Stay tuned! Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

[Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla]

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19

To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

[Rex Marinus]

Okoi, the right to vote is fundamentally the right to vote. A referendum on any issue, can be raised subject to a resolution of the National Assembly. It does not require constitutional amendment.

Obi Nwakanma

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From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
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Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

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[Rex Marinus]

Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.

Obi Nwakanma

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From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
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Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Obi Nwakanma needs to go and read Law to improve his contribution to issues concerning the Constitution and Law. 

Ayo Ojutalayo

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Voodoo constitutional law by Obi Nwakanma!

Ayo Ojutalayo

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

[Collins Ezebuihe]

Okoi & Ayotollah, 

The right to vote for a Referendum is enshrined in the UN charter, of which Nigeria is a signatory to. Therefore, the right of  a Referendum vote by its seekers, which includes me, is an obligation,  binding on Nigeria, and not a choice. 

Failure to comply, will result in serious sanctions against Nigeria, and severe unrest inside Nigeria. Mister Buhari simply has no choice but to clear the way for the UN to conduct the Referendum sought by the SESS in 2017. 

That year is around the corner, and that is when the Biafra movement shifts into higher gear.

Colly Ezebuihe

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Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 02:00:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

[Chukwuemeka Okala]

"If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly,... Obi Nwakanma

Comment:

Okoi and Ayo,

I seem to agree with Obi Nwakanma on this one but with a caveat.

As opposed to the petitions going straight to National Assembly as postulated by Obi Nwakanma, the petitioners should collate their overall signed petitions and submit it to the body of the Igbo Senators/Reps (if something like that exist). Where there is no body like that, they should submit the bulk of the signed petitions to Ohanaeze NdiIgbo who would call the attention of the Igbo Senators and Reps to it.

It is the duty of one of the Igbo Senators and Reps to raise a bill to this effect in the respective Houses - Senate and Representatives. If the bill passes in both Houses, then the machinery for a referendum should be set in motion to conduct it, since that is what the people want. But if defeated, the status quo remains as that would translate to meaning that only a minority amongst the Igbo population are the one making this noise and disturbing the entire wide-world. They would realise themselves and shut the trap without anyone telling them again to do so.

On the other hand, when the collated petitions gets to Ohanaeze NdiIgbo, the umbrella organisation has a duty to consider it and decide whether to move it to the NASS or not - depending on the mood and sensibilities of the overall majority of the Igbo people.

Bottom-line: The right to exit Nigeria or remain in it is entirely the choice and preserve of the Igbo and, that should be determined by the outcome of the vote of the Igbo people  and by ONLY Igbo people!

What I don't understand in all of this is why some Igbos want to drag the South-South (SS) to it. They should be made to understand that the SS is not Igbo territory and vice versa. If they finally decide on Igbexit, then, they should live with the consequences thereof. But if they have changed their mind after weighing the pros and cons to now go for Igbremain, then they should stop the frivolous wahala and move on with the status quo!

The plan to drag the SS, more or less looks like the proverbial drowning man - looking for any available straw to hold to keep him afloat. And that is laughable!

And there you have it! (Apologies Prof. Bolaji Aluko)

Emeka Reuben Okala

London, UK

"Faith [Religion] and reason are not necessarily opposed. But when reason won't take you another step, faith keeps on going because it connects you to God." 

 

 P.S. May I remind Prof. Obi Nwakanma that the position of a referendum in the constitution which he identifies as already covered by suffrage, is the same thing as the right and powers of the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria to investigate and fight corruption as covered by the duties and powers of the Government of the day. Such a role does not require a special constitutional coverage. It's functional!

CRO.

[Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla]

Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18 To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.

Obi Nwakanma

[employ...@aol.com]

Sir,

I have long concluded that try ad he might the Professor is out of his death in his analysis of constitutional law.

Olu/

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 06:40 To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Emeka,

The geographical area recognized by the Constitution as Nigeria cannot reduce in size unless the Constitution makes provision for it and the constitutional process for reducing the size is followed. Ohanaeze Ndigbo is not known by the Constitution and no where in the Constitution is it stated that Senators and House of Reps members from a geopolitical area can collect petitions for secession, for consideration of the National Assembly. That petition for a referendum can be okayed by the Legislature and/or the Executive does not make the referendum constitutional. Remember that the Judiciary exists to stop unconstitutional acts of any of the other two branches of government. That means that it is not enough that a process is logical or sensible, it must be constitutional. That is why constitutional amendment is the "first thing first" for secessionists that want peaceful secession. 

For obvious reasons, secession should not be easier than amending the Constitution. It is for a reason that amendment of Constitutions is a tedious process. Secession process shouldn't be less tedious.

Ayo Ojutalayo 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

[Joe Attueyi]

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it.

Okoi,

The 1963 constitution did not contain any clause on how any part of the country that desired to become a separate region could go about. Yet when the combination of agitation and the political environment aligned themselves , a bill was passed in the federal House of Representatives-the Mid West Referendum bill--outlining the area that will participate in the referendum and the vote level required for it to pass ( 60%). The rest became history. 

The agitation has been there for awhile now. All that remains is the political environment 

I would contend that as Baba continues to appoint 'Northern' GMD NNPC and 'Northern' MD of NPA and 'Northern ' defense chiefs etc the agitation for self determination will revive in the West of Nigeria which will create the political environment for a renegotiation of Nigeria's structure peacefully or otherwise. I have been known to be wrong but I strongly think I would be proved right on this. 

Joe

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/920688054.3341233.1468382160446.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Rex Marinus]

"let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act."

-Okoi

Okoi, I'm still trying to wrap my head around your statement above because it is counterintuitive! The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy. Without that right, all talk about a democracy or a republic is sham and contrived. With due respect, Okoi, I should really not be the ne telling you all this. You are an officer of the courts, sworn to defend these rights.

You do not need an amendment of the constitution to establish the referendum. That right to a referendum is already established under the rights of suffrage, and can neither be questioned, nor evacuated. The question regarding whether to dismantle a federation is not a legal question, it is a democratic question. There was once a Senegambia federation. There was once an East African federation. There is nothing sacrosanct about national boundaries as the Cameroonian plebiscite proved in 1961, and the Midwest referendum proved in 1963. As Joe Atueyi has shown, it did not require any extraordinary constitutional measures, except that which was already inherent in the constitution to conduct these refrenda. It would only require the parliament to set down a committee, empower the national Population Commission to determine the demographic weight of the region, and hand over the details of the conduct of the referendum to the National Election Commission, which is an independent body, but which actually should be under either the Ministry of Home Affairs or the Ministry of Establishment, in other circumstances. We have examples everywhere else in the world to guide us. Nigeria does not exist in Mars.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com

[afis 'Deinde]

"I would contend that as Baba continues to appoint 'Northern' GMD NNPC and 'Northern' MD of NPA and 'Northern ' defense chiefs etc the agitation for self determination will revive in the West of Nigeria which will create the political environment for a renegotiation of Nigeria's structure peacefully or otherwise. I have been known to be wrong but I strongly think I would be proved right on this."........Joe Attueyi.

Wishful thinking.

Yoruba awaits the end of Buhari's 8yrs in government, then it is our turn.
Stop been idiotic.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

[Abraham Madu]

Yoruba awaits the end of Buhari's 8yrs in government, then it is our turn.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Joe

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[Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla]

Obi, I have advised you to stray away from discussing constitutionalism and law because you are not trained in the science of jurisprudence and certainly;  you cannot be better than those who studied and specialized in this ‎arcane discipline ! Let me educate you, in the  hierarchy of Laws, the Constitution as the fundamental Law is the grundnorm or the Supreme Law because if any regulation or legislation is inconsistent with the Constitution such regulation or legislation is void to the extent of its inconsistency! Certainly in the status or corpus of Nigerian Law, the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution and as such if any provision of the Electoral Act is inconsistent or at variance with the Constitution, the Constitution will prevail! This proposition is beyond any argument but I can understand you are Not a Lawyer!   

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 16:00

To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com

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Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

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[afis 'Deinde]

You forgot Ho Ha!

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Afis Deinde]

"Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act!".......Okoi Obla.

Afis comment: Any layman supposed to know that the constitution is supreme. If you did not know, is it not easier to remember the word "unconditional"?

Every or almost every bye laws, electoral act, state laws, all of these are erased if found unconstitutional. Is that not a pointer that nothing is higher than the constitution?

Obi Nwakanma is a story teller.

He knows as much about law and constitution as KC Asagwara, Vin Odebesilu or ChukwuWereDunWo Agwunobi, and all those people are Botuje on legal studies.

Afis realistically accepts it because he's comfortable in what he is in life.

But people like Nwakanma lies and deludes themselves they are experts in what they did not go to school to study.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

[Afis Deinde]

Nwakuba is an imbecile.

Look I am too tired to call you names.
Could you call yourself an idiot for me?

Just stare at yourself in the mirror, and point and utter "Patsy boy, you are an idiot!"

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2016, at 1:14 PM, Patrick Nwakuba <pnwa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy.- Obi Nwakanma.

The above from Dr. Obi Nwakanma is the truth and nothing but the truth. For an Officer of the Court to state in the World Wide Web that an electoral law of a nation is inferior to the constitution of that nation makes you wonder what law school some of these so-called learned gentlemen attended. Folks what happened to the basic Law 101 or what we should called the Principles of Law?

My question to Okoi is this could the electoral laws be legally binding if the act creating the electoral law was not based in the the constitution of the nation. No wonder Nigeria has so many engineers, yet we still rely on the German MCC and Julius Bergers for our road constructions. Too many Ph.Ds that cannot write a simple memo and too many lawyers that cannot draft common CFOs and simply powers of attorney for a simple purchase. Tufiakwa.

P. Nwakuba 

Still contemplating on what to do with my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Nigeria. No apologies.

[Afis Deinde]

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2016, at 12:46 PM, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act!".......Okoi Obla.

Afis comment: Any layman supposed to know that the constitution is supreme. If you did not know, is it not easier to remember the word "UNCONSTITUTIONAL"?

[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

Nwanna Obi:

 

Please stop responding to Nwa Okala. He is no way in your league to argue with you. You are raising his ego as educated person. By now, you should know how he writes. He always engage in any hot topic where there are many people writing about it.

 

He copies or go along with what others writes as if he knows what is been debated. If Oko Boi stops writing now, you see him signing off that he is done with you. Or he is going to Night Virgil and Prayer Breakfast for the next two weeks when he know that the topic has die down.

 

For over 10 years now, Igbo’s have been debating him about IKWERE is/not Igbo. He will brag and brag his knowledge about the topic because ALUKO and some Yorubas are siding with him.

He doesn’t even know the angle Aluko is arguing from like a Mumu.

 

He gets confused of ALUKO saying that Igbo’s should leave him alone to mean that Aluko know for fact that IKWERRE is not Igbo. He didn’t even understand the Chart ALUKO posted about IKWERRE as IGBO.

 

Now, I am out to cure his ignorant, he disappears and said that he has no time for a madman like me because he doesn’t know the answers to my questions. This is the same guy who have been boasting and bragging all these years that he will take on any Igbo on Ikwerre debate.

 

His jives are full of contradictions. He told us that he only responds or he will respond to mails from people writing with their full names but he will not respond and answer my questions. Instead, he starts chasing Nwa Adiele and Wharfsnake he accused of using fake names.  

 

Nwa Okala is like a lazy man and a brawler who likes to fight when he sees people around to stop the fight or take some of the blows for him. He continues to attack Nwa Adiele and Wharfsnake because they are people been attacked by Josef Igietseme, Aluko, Oga Adeboye and AFIS.

 

I want to debate this scallywag about IKWERRE but he ran away like he always does. Let him bring ALUKO in and I will drop him and face ALUKO. He writes and wait for days for people to weighing from all angles with their views and he will select the ones best suits his ignorance to dwell on.

 

Please stop responding to him. You are giving free education worth of $350 per Credit.

 

You are distracting him from me. I want to squash him with documents from the IHEKWABA’s Archives and shut him up for good.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

---

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Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 7:59 AM
Subject: [IgboEvents:Live] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

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[ayoo...@yahoo.com]

Joe the pastor,

Comparing creation of a State with breaking the country up does not make sense. That Mid-West was created without a constitutional process explains why Mid-West could not sue Western Region for its share of the Region's assets. The political environment of 2016 is much more sophisticated than that of the early years of independence.

Ayo Ojutalayo

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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Which Country are you dividing?

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To: NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2016 11:50 am
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

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[Wilson Iguade]

Vin,

Why are you not defending Obi's statement that electoral laws are superior to the Constitution, Hehehehe!

Rastafarian dude, your bosom buddy is at it again, smoking ganja and talking trash to excercise is fucked up mind from marijuana. Rastafarian dude, please get real - there is no way a law, or ANY law from NASS is superior to the Constitution. FULL STOP, period!!!

Obi, please stop your nonsense. People like Vin already support your bullshit, quit while ahead.  

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

Okoi:
 
Chris Chima Nwachukwu is a lawyer. I know him. He is based here in Atlanta. I don't understand your quip about ignorance and emergency constitutional lawyers. Besides, Chris Nwachukwu made it clear that the Constitution of Nigeria is Supreme to the Electoral Act. So I don't understand your anger. But please note your statement should be 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'.
 
But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:
 
1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law

9. Secondary authorities.

 

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

 

---

From: okoi...@hotmail.com
To: naija...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:46:39 +0000

Ignorance is a bad thing! All these emergency constitutional lawyers who doesn't know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies ‎ of constitutional jurisprudence come here to talk poppy cock!

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: cncnwachukwu via NaijaEvent Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 19:35 To: naija...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Dear Mazi Nwakuba:

Constitution of Nigeria is supreme to the Electoral Act. If the electoral Act is in conflict with the constitution, the constitution shall prevail.

Chris Chima Nwachukwu

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Patrick Nwakuba' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
To: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
Cc: Rex Marinus <naija...@googlegroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; ofume.phillip <ofume....@gmail.com>; AfricanWorldForum <AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com>; jniang20 <jnia...@gmail.com>; USAAfricaDialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; ybraimoh <ybra...@nigeriansenate.org>; jikenya <jik...@nigeriansenate.org>; caroftp <car...@yahoo.com>; collyezebuihe <collye...@hotmail.com>; bolajumoke <bolaj...@nigeriansenate.org>; abi4truth <abi4...@yahoo.co.uk>; nidan-group <nidan...@googlegroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; Christianandmuslimyoth <Christianan...@gmail.com>; odidere2001 <odide...@yahoo.com>; asimeon <asi...@nigeriansenate.org>; gakume <gak...@nigeriansenate.org>; bolajipundit011 <bolajip...@yahoo.com>; uali <ua...@nigeriansenate.org>; Ola <olaka...@aol.com>; awofeso <awo...@mwebafrica.com>; Vin <abuj...@gmail.com>; femmylawson <femmy...@yahoo.com>; drkcasagwara <drkcas...@shaw.ca>; ougbesia <ougb...@nigeriansenate.org>; gsekibo <gse...@nigeriansenate.org>; YanArewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; ainuwa <ain...@nigeriansenate.org>; bhenshaw <bhen...@nigeriansenate.org>; euzamere <euza...@nigeriansenate.org>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; abagudu <aba...@nigeriansenate.org>; igbonize <igbo...@yahoo.com>; salihumustafa <salihu...@gmail.com>; Ezeana <pach...@yahoo.com>; ibk <i...@usa.net>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; aude <au...@nigeriansenate.org>; atelba <ate...@nigeriansenate.org>; ozodiosuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>; davidwest62 <david...@yahoo.com>; ericayoola <erica...@aol.co.uk>; sakinyede <saki...@nigeriansenate.org>; IgboWorldForum <IgboWor...@yahoogroups.com>; info <in...@apc.com.ng>; africatoday80 <africa...@gmail.com>; ibanga.nh <iban...@gmail.com>; madeleke <made...@nigeriansenate.org>; edoregeneration <edorege...@yahoo.co.uk>; afis <odide...@gmail.com>; aeferakeya <aefer...@nigeriansenate.org>; sadeyemi <sade...@nigeriansenate.org>; abba2007 <abba...@gmail.com>; oohize <ooh...@nigeriansenate.org>; Peter <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; gngaji <gng...@nigeriansenate.org>; arise <ar...@nigeriansenate.org>; utafidan <utaf...@nigeriansenate.org>; ozodiosuji <ozodi...@yahoo.ca>; nigerianID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; aadeleke <aade...@nigeriansenate.org>; pcdbooks <pcdb...@yahoo.com>; agwu22 <agw...@yahoo.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; mmuhammed <mmuh...@nigeriansenate.org>; zekwueme <zekw...@yahoo.com>; rexmarinus1966 <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; vegba <ve...@nigeriansenate.org>; informative.media2016 <informativ...@yahoo.co.uk>; abrahammadu <abrah...@yahoo.com>; iida <ii...@nigeriansenate.org>; alawan <ala...@nigeriansenate.org>; nugbane <nug...@nigeriansenate.org>; bibrahim <bibr...@nigeriansenate.org>; kingsnna <king...@yahoo.com>; limptintinc <limpt...@gmail.com>; Naijanet <naij...@googlegroups.com>; wharfsnake@yahoo <wharf...@yahoo.com>; vin_modebelu <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; posakwe <pos...@nigeriansenate.org>; talknigeria <talkn...@yahoo.com>; alukome <alu...@gmail.com>; aayuba <aay...@nigeriansenate.org>; edo_global <edo_g...@yahoo.com>; info <in...@nigeriansenate.org>; glado <gl...@nigeriansenate.org>; ken.asagwara <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; msjoe21st <msjo...@aol.com>; aooduma <aoo...@nigeriansenate.org>; gsaraki <gsa...@nigeriansenate.org>; jmanager <jman...@nigeriansenate.org>; talknigeria <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; kcprinceasagwara <kcprince...@shaw.ca>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; news <ne...@frontpageafricaonline.com>; adeyemoadetokunbo <adeyemoa...@yahoo.com>; Igbo Events <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2016 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy.- Obi Nwakanma.

The above from Dr. Obi Nwakanma is the truth and nothing but the truth. For an Officer of the Court to state in the World Wide Web that an electoral law of a nation is inferior to the constitution of that nation makes you wonder what law school some of these so-called learned gentlemen attended. Folks what happened to the basic Law 101 or what we should called the Principles of Law?

My question to Okoi is this could the electoral laws be legally binding if the act creating the electoral law was not based in the the constitution of the nation. No wonder Nigeria has so many engineers, yet we still rely on the German MCC and Julius Bergers for our road constructions. Too many Ph.Ds that cannot write a simple memo and too many lawyers that cannot draft common CFOs and simply powers of attorney for a simple purchase. Tufiakwa.

P. Nwakuba 

Still contemplating on what to do with my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Nigeria. No apologies.

On Jul 13, 2016, at 10:59 AM, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act."
-Okoi


Okoi, I'm still trying to wrap my head around your statement above because it is counterintuitive! The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy. Without that right, all talk about a democracy or a republic is sham and contrived. With due respect, Okoi, I should really not be the ne telling you all this. You are an officer of the courts, sworn to defend these rights.


You do not need an amendment of the constitution to establish the referendum. That right to a referendum is already established under the rights of suffrage, and can neither be questioned, nor evacuated. The question regarding whether to dismantle a federation is not a legal question, it is a democratic question. There was once a Senegambia federation. There was once an East African federation. There is nothing sacrosanct about national boundaries as the Cameroonian plebiscite proved in 1961, and the Midwest referendum proved in 1963. As Joe Atueyi has shown, it did not require any extraordinary constitutional measures, except that which was already inherent in the constitution to conduct these refrenda. It would only require the parliament to set down a committee, empower the national Population Commission to determine the demographic weight of the region, and hand over the details of the conduct of the referendum to the National Election Commission, which is an independent body, but which actually should be under either the Ministry of Home Affairs or the Ministry of Establishment, in other circumstances. We have examples everywhere else in the world to guide us. Nigeria does not exist in Mars.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
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Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18 To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
Obi Nwakanma

[Rex Marinus]

CNC Nwachukwu:

An Electoral Act does not become law unless it passes through various stages in conformity with the constitution. It is an addendum to the constitution. Through each process in law-making, the foundation is always the constitution. It is like saying the Appropriation Act is "inferior" to the constitution. An Act of the National Assembly, unless it fails to meet the test of all constitutional requirements before it becomes law is the law of the federation deriving from, and enlarging the frame of the constitution, and therefore cannot be "inferior" to the constitution. This is actually, elementary. Every Act becomes part of the body of the laws of a nation, and the question therefore is, what is a "constitution"? The various 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc amendments of the US are all Acts of Congress, and are thus today part of the US Constitution. Okoi is either being mischievous or worse!

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: cncnwachukwu via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:35 PM

[Rex Marinus]

"Matter of fact speaking, all Acts of ‎Parliament have statutory powers and that means they are supreme laws in the same way as the constitution. Parliament make such laws because they are filling gaps that for some unforeseen reasons the Constitution did not cover and there is no need to convene the drafting of a new constitution when Parliament which is made up of elected representatives of the people is vested with the authority and power to make laws on behalf of the people; and in effect, save time as well as cut short the duration of the problem that need to be addressed. "

-Macdonald Mopho

Of the above by Mac Mopho, nothing more, or better to add! And to add some other point, which Olu Ojedokun misunderstands completely: Parliamentary sovereignty is not restricted to the British and its "unwritten constitution." The Britisn "Commons" is not sovereign because Britain operates an "unwritten constitution." It is sovereign because after the head was lopped from Charles I, the British monarchy accepted the sovereign will of the "commonalty of the realm," from the interregnum and beyond the restoration. The idea of the parliamentary sovereignty did not emerge from the British. In actual fact, it emerged from the French parliament, and was one of the fierce positions advanced by the likes of Voltaire - remember him? Poet and Public intellectual, and one of the leading lights of the European enlightenment? And it is a cardinal principle of the US Congress because the US Congress was modelled largely after  Revolutionary France. And that has been the model  for all republican parliaments ever since.

And while we are still at it: the National Assembly is the elected Parliament of Nigeria. Various nations call their parliaments by various names: the Israelis call theirs, the "Knesset." The Germans call theirs the "Bundesrat." The French call their parliament the "Congress du parlement Francais" consisting of the National Assembly (HOR) and the Senat (Senate), just like Nigeria's bi-cameral legislature. The US call their parliament, the Congress; the Russians call their parliament the "Federal Assembly of Russia," consisting of the "Duma" (the Lower House) and the 'federation Council." And so on and so forth. The elected representative body of every democracy is called a parliament. Many on this forum should actually go back to secondary school and get properly educated! Start with taking the mandatory 3 years of class in "Government" and "History." This is why Nigeria is in trouble. Even literate Nigerians, including many of their lawyers are so badly educated, they do not have an idea about the institutions, or the system of government in which the so-called laws of the nation operates, and this a bloody shame!!! This is high school stuff for Gods sake!!!

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of MacDonald Mopho mij....@gmail.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 4:36 PM
To: Rex Marinus rexma...@hotmail.com [NaijaPolitics]; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Okoi Obono Obla; Olu Ojedokun
Cc: ofume.phillip; jniang20; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; info; ibanga.nh; madeleke; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; aadeleke; agwu22; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; alukome; aayuba; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; kcprinceasagwara; adeyemoadetokunbo; MacDonald I J Mopho; Rowland Ekperi; Benatari1; Annah Tonbara Buseri; Miasigheni Omanoye Idema; Emeka Obiandu; Chrisamechi; George Barango; Felix Otuoke; Comfort Oghu; Niger Delta Peace Initiative
Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

 

Professor Obi Nwakanma:

You are quite right.

"The Electoral Act ‎cannot be inferior to the Constitution because it is an Act of Parliament."

- Obi Nwakanma.

Matter of fact speaking, all Acts of ‎Parliament have statutory powers and that means they are supreme laws in the same way as the constitution. Parliament make such laws because they are filling gaps that for some unforeseen reasons the Constitution did not cover and there is no need to convene the drafting of a new constitution when Parliament which is made up of elected representatives of the people is vested with the authority and power to make laws on behalf of the people; and in effect, save time as well as cut short the duration of the problem that need to be addressed. 

Okoi was either writing in haste and therefore did not choose his words appropriately when he stated that "the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution" or he is simply a lawyer with very poor knowledge of Constitutional Law (which covers everything about Constitution, Electoral Act, Referendum etc.). In the hierarchy of the supreme laws of the land, the Constitution and the Acts of Parliament will stand on the same horizontal line. While Okoi as a Special Assistant to the President on Prosecution may have reasons to take a position that he believes will align with President Buhari's wishes, he should be advised not to undermine his legal training by advancing arguments that have no legal substance in these fora or anyway else, in the cause of his taking such a position.

In conclusion, Parliament, in this instance, the National Assembly in Nigeria, has the power to pass a resolution that the Country should hold a Referendum and it shall be so; as long as the resolution of the National Assembly for a Referendum is predicated upon an overwhelming number of petitions for a Referendum from members of their constituencies. If the National Assembly members on their own volition decides to pass a Resolution for a Referendum without the members of the respective constituencies asking them to do so, then the people will simply boycott the Referendum.

Thank you

MacDonald I J Mopho 

London UK

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus rexma...@hotmail.com [NaijaPolitics] Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 16:04

To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

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Subject: [NaijaPolitics] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

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[Rex Marinus]

Nwanna, I hear you. It is just that whenever I think I've had enough, the teacher in me rises... De eje o!

Obi Nwakanma

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From: 'Chukwuma S. Agwunobi' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:03 PM
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Subject: [africanworldforum] NWANNA OBI: BIKO STOP GIVING OUT ALL DIS KNOWLEDGE TO NWA OKALA & OKO BOI, BOI.

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/1287692033.3157562.1468433000000.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Abraham Madu]

Let us give them a system of government full of confusion and chaos that their failure will bring them to our objective at the end. They are not self-governing race. How could they be, they were tutored in the worst estate. The UK/US impose Buhari on Nigerians to keep their objective. Putting a superior ability leader will defeat their purpose. As a mediocre, Buhari and his administration,  goes to David Cameron to ask him what to do in his so called country as a head of state. Tufiakwa! Shameful! The error Buhari-APC are making out of ignorance will keep Nigeria many years behind.

Ya kpotuba!

Ya gazie.

A.A.Madu

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Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Sounds better as Igboexit or Igboremain! Before referendum, Igbo will need to get the Constitution amended making the referendum constitutional. First thing first!

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Obi Nwakanma and My People::

There are those who use the English language badly - but what they wish to say is clear - and there are those who use the English language mischievously, hoping that what they write will obfuscate what they really wish to say.

Some of what are being discussed now, including the word "Constitution", "amendment", "inferior",  and "extension", etc. have elements of bad use of the language, as well as mischief.

1.  Take the word "Constitution".  To fix ideas, I will confine myself to "Written Constitution" . like they  specifically are in Nigeria and in the USA.  So we will hereabout write about written NATIONAL Constitutions and sub-National (state or even local government) Constitutions, which are comprised of Sections and Sub-Sections, both original and specifically "AS AMENDED" - either by an imposed power or by a Parliament under a formal arrangement of amending..  If I do not qualify the Constitution, I will be referring to both National and Sub-National Constitutions.t

2.  Please understand that even within a Constitution, there are HIERACHIES of rights. and it has happened that some Sections within a Constitution have sometimes been ruled UNCONSTITUTIONAL with respect to some other MORE FUNDAMENTAL Sections, and have hence been STRUCK DOWN by courts, including right up to the Supreme Court.  So those sections effectively are DEAD, being found to be fatally inferior to other sections, until they are AMENDED to come within agreed intentions of the fundamental sections.  [Note the word "inferior."]

3.  Original Constitutions can be IMPOSED ON the people without any referendum by them whatsoever (by an ancien colonizing power or outgoing Military regime, with tacit approval by an incoming civilian regime, as it has always been in Nigeria) or approved by NATIONAL REFERENDUMS of the people to who they apply, with the express consent of the People, as it should be.  This is my first historical problem with Nigeria:  that we are using a Constitution that is not agreed BY SO MANY OF OUR NIGERIAN PEOPLE, and hence we have an elite group of the people using various sections and sub-sections of it to their advantage, and causing disaffection among us Nigerians.  So those who wish to exercise unusual constitutional rights like secession, devolution, true federalism,  etc. should be seeking the establishment of a PEOPLES' CONSTITUTION, not using or misusing the present Constitution for the pet peeves.

4.  The Constitution is a SPECIAL LAW,  invariably constituted in a sweeping manner, but NOT Primus inter pares with any other law.   Vin Otuonye is right: there is a HIERARACHY of other laws  of which the Constitution towers above all others:

QUOTE

But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:
 
1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law 9. Secondary authorities.

UNQUOTE To the extent that a Section of all these other laws are INTERPRETED as violating the intent and spirit of the Constitution from which it is derived, it can or will be struck down under test.  To that extent, those sections of other laws, statutes, etc. are "inferior" to the Constitution.  Obi, these other laws and statutes cannot be considered "EXTENSIONS" of the Constitutions, as you claimed.  There are only AMENDMENTS to Constitutions, nothing more.   5.  Finally, whether a particular exercise eg a referendum for ANYTHING - not just for secession - is consistent with the Constitution depends on whether:       (i)  there is positive language in the Constitution enabling it;       (ii)  there is language in the Constitution specifically EXCLUDING it;      (iii)  language is SILENT on it.  It is only a Court that can interprete whether  a FUNDAMENTAL section of the existing Constitution really enables it or excludes it, whereupon the National Assembly/Parliament will be advised to agree or disagree with the Court by SPECIFICALLY enabling or excluding the Act by an Amendment Act of Parliament. Now, in our 1999 Constitution (as amended), there are seven references to Referendums in Sections 8, 69 and 110: QUOTE   8. (1) An Act of the National Assembly for the purpose of creating a new State shall only be passed if- (a) a request, supported by at least two-thirds majority of members (representing the area demanding the creation of the new State) in each of the following, namely - (i) the Senate and the House of Representatives, (ii) the House of Assembly in respect of the area, and (iii) the local government councils in respect of the area, is received by the National Assembly; (b) a proposal for the creation of the State is thereafter approved in a referendum by at least two-thirds majority of the people of the area where the demand for creation of the State originated; (c) the result of the referendum is then approved by a simple majority of all the States of the Federation supported by a simple majority of members of the Houses of Assembly; and (d) the proposal is approved by a resolution passed by two-thirds majority of members of each House of the National Assembly. ..... ......(3) A bill for a Law of a House of Assembly for the purpose of creating a new local government area shall only be passed if - (a) a request supported by at least two-thirds majority of members (representing the area demanding the creation of the new local government area) in each of the following, namely - (i) the House of Assembly in respect of the area, and (ii) the local government councils in respect of the area, is received by the House of Assembly; (b) a proposal for the creation of the local government area is thereafter approved in a referendum by at least two-thirds majority of the people of the local government area where the demand for the proposed local government area originated; (c) the result of the referendum is then approved by a simple majority of the members in each local government council in a majority of all the local government councils in the State; and (d) the result of the referendum is approved by a resolution passed by two-thirds majority of members of the House of Assembly.

.....

......

69. A member of the Senate or of the House Representatives may be recalled as such a member if -

(a) there is presented to the Chairman of the Independent National Electoral Commission a petition in that behalf signed by more than one-half of the persons registered to vote in that member's constituency alleging their loss of confidence in that member; and

(b) the petition is thereafter, in a referendum conducted by the Independent National Electoral Commission within ninety days of the date of receipt of the petition, approved by a simple majority of the votes of the persons registered to vote in that member's constituency.

.......

.....

110. A member of the House of Assembly may be recalled as such a member if -

(a) there is presented to the Chairman of the Independent National Electoral Commission a petition in that behalf signed by more than one-half of the persons registered to vote in that members's constituency alleging their loss of confidence in that member; and

(b) the petition is thereafter, in a referendum conducted by the Independent National Electoral Commission within ninety days of the date of the receipt of the petition, approved by a simple majority of the votes of the persons registered to vote in that member's constituency.

UNQUOTE

All creations of new states and new local governments referring to referendum in the Nigerian 1999 Constitution (as amended) are to be WITHIN THE BOUNDARY of the country called Nigeria; no reference to referendum has a provision for secession away from Nigeria.  There is a principle in law that what has not been SPECIFICALLY INCLUDED in law in effect it EXCLUDES: EXPRESSIO UNIUS EST EXCLUSION ALTERIUS and its variant "Expressium facit cessare tacitum",   As such the Electoral Law in Nigeria cannot just be altered to include a referendum for secession; it would be in violation of the Constitution..    

More generally, I am going to leave you with certain Latin phrases in statutory construction, and let you pick and choose which is most appropriate in our present discussion:

EJUSDEM GENERIS
Where a statute describes things of particular class or kind accompanied by words of a generic character, the generic words will usually be limited to things of a kindred nature with those particularly enumerated, unless there be something in the context of the statute to repel such influence.

EXPRESSIO UNIUS EST EXCLUSION ALTERIUS
The express mention of one person, thing, or consequence implies the exclusion of all others. Variation: Expressium facit cessare tacitum. What is expressed puts an end to what is implied. Where a statute is expressly limited to certain matters, it may not, by interpretation or construction, be extended to other matters. Canon of restrictive interpretation.

Where a statute, by its terms, is expressly limited to certain matters, it may not, by interpretation or construction, be extended to others. The rule proceeds from the premise that the legislature would not have made specified enumerations in a statute had the intention been not to restrict its meaning and to confine its terms to those expressly mentioned.

CASUS OMISSUS
Casus omissus pro omisso habendus est. A person, object, or thing omitted from an enumeration in a statute must be held to have been omitted intentionally.
This needs two laws. In expressio unius, it’s just the enumeration you are looking at, not another law.

UBI LEX NON DISTINGUIT NEC NOS DISTINGUERE DEBEMOS
Where the law makes no distinctions, one does not distinguish. Where the law does not distinguish, courts should not distinguish.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

Esquare

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/HK2PR06MB1649FA37095B1076D7DCE582DF310%40HK2PR06MB1649.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com.

[Chukwuemeka Okala]

Chukwuma nwa Agwunobi,

I had wanted to ignore you permanently, considering that you were obviously at the peak of your insanity at the time of your worthless write-ups. But having observed you for sometime, I can see that you are improving. Good news, isn't it?

Against this backdrop, I have decided to whittle done on my primary decision - not to respond to you. I will respond to you compositely sometime soon. My only regret, is not only the pressure on time but total lack of it as we talk. Regardless, I will try to create the time, out of no time, to avail you with a response to all your disjointed essays that make no meanings to the right thinking man of the society. This is a promise!

If I may ask, where am I involved in Obi Nwakanma's response to Okoi? Obi Nwakanma responded to Okoi and you asked him not to respond to me, before delving into your usual load of garbage and verbiage. Can you see that you are still seriously mind challenged? You are still out of your mind! But that will not negate my promise to do you a response though.

Emeka Reuben Okala

London, UK

"Faith [Religion] and reason are not necessarily opposed. But when reason won't take you another step, faith keeps on going because it connects you to God."  

 

 

[Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla]

Some of these ethnic local champions think everything is about ethnic clannishness and solidarity! Even in ordinary argument they invoke ethnic clannishness and solidarity ‎! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 01:11

To: IgboE...@yahoogroups.com; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; africanw...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume. phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga. nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative. media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken. asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] NWANNA OBI: BIKO STOP GIVING OUT ALL DIS KNOWLEDGE TO NWA OKALA & OKO BOI, BOI.

[rotimi fashakin]

"Okoi, I'm still trying to wrap my head around your statement above because it is counterintuitive! The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional!"   ----- Obi Nwakanma.

Obi,

It is this excerpted statement by you that is really counter-intuitive! You write the wrong thing and back it up with such nauseous impudence which rankles.

For your Education, the Constitution is the 'grundnorm' in the land. The word grundnum derives from the German root word which literally means, basic norm.

Basic norm is a concept in the Pure Theory of Law created by Hans Kelsen, a jurist and legal philosopher. Kelsen used this word to denote the basic norm, order, or rule that forms an underlying basis for a legal system.

If there is any part of the Electoral act, which is at variance with the Constitution, this is deemed unconstitutional and expunged immediately.

Let me give you an example: In a decided case by Justice Kolawole in the case of Labour v INEC &AGF, a part of the electoral was deemed unconstitutional. I shall be able to post that judgment to you shortly.

Hear me: Just as the Court of appeal is superior to the High court and the Supreme Court is supreme to all courts in the land, so is the Constitution SUPERIOR to all other body of laws in the land.

It is in your interest to take to this correction and stop wrapping IGNORANCE in flowery language.

Thank you my brother. Please enjoy your day.

Rotimi Fashakin

---

From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>

To: "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; Igbo Events <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; "igbowor...@yahoogroups.com" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 12:34 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/HK2PR06MB1649FA37095B1076D7DCE582DF310%40HK2PR06MB1649.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com.

[okoi_a...@yahoo.com]

Professor Rotimi Fashakin, absolutely  please teach Professor Obi Nwakanma  elementary Constitutional Law 101!

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: rotimi fashakin rot...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] Sent: Thursday, 14 July 2016 11:33 To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com Reply To: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com Subject: [NaijaPolitics] Re: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

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[Rex Marinus]

"Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria"

-Vin Otuonye

Vin Nwanna,

On the contrary, I did say that suffrage (the right to vote) already exists and is covered in the constitution, and to put it in a different way, amplified in the Electoral Act whose foundation is the constitution. I did say that the constitution already provides for the referendum - the right of citizens to vote directly on an issue in at least one specific instance, the recall process, and therefore we would not re-invent the wheel on the matter of whether a referendum can be called on any subject that has to do with the rights of the citizen already guaranteed by the constitution. We gave the example of the precedents in the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961, and the referendum creating the Midwest region in 1963. The constitution already empowers the process, and does not need to spell out the petition for separation/secession in the constitution as the subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of stare decisis et quieta non movere.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws. But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as you have rightly observed. It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes, or case laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media, but which has been squelched by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM
To: naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

Iguade:
 
My mobile phone reply takes a day or two to post. I don't know why. But below is close to what I replied to yesterday.
 
I told you to always support or defend the RIGHT thing and don't fixate yourself with WHO wrote what. If you fixate yourself with the person and not the idea, you lose sight because you'll not always see the good stuff the person you dislike contribute to this forum. If Obi Nwakanma present a brilliant argument, as he often does, support it instead of fixating with Obi the person you may not like.
 
But to your point below, I don't recall reading Obi Nwakanma say that the electoral act is superior to the Constitution. All I read him state is that the electoral act and the Constitution are intertwined. It is the Constitution that gives birth to the electoral act. If the electoral act runs afoul of the Constitution, it will be declared illegal, null and void. Because the electoral act has not been declared illegal, I posit it is constitutional.
 
Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria.
 
The Constitution will not list everything we'll want to be in the document but if we pay close attention, implicitly, those things are covered. Voting may not be present in the Constitution, however I believe voting is implicitly  stated in that document.
 
The Constitution list election of offices and went further to list the offices. The offices of the President, Vice President, Senators, Federal House Members, Governors, Deputy Governors and State House members are won by election not selection. And the election and voting for these offices are by the citizens. Thus, the fact that the Constitution did not implicitly state voting, that on itself does not mean voting is not in the Constitution. How do we elect the offices I enumerated if not by voting?
 
Please note my use of the capital letter C with regard the Constitution. I recall how my constitutional law professor drummed it in our ears that the Constitution is a living document. We should treat it with respect.
 
Chris Nwachukwu, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this statement 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'. The phrase these emergency constitutional lawyers is plural.
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

---

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 19:32:20 -0400
From: naija...@googlegroups.com

To: naija...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Dear Vin,

I don't think Okoi was referring to me; he was referring to the previous writer.

[Joe Attueyi]

Yes Gregg. For someone whose past time is reading, reading  Obi is a thing of joy. 

Even on this matter of the modus operandi for making a referendum happen in Nigeria I find his arguments logical and persuasive. 

He is one of those who make visiting these forums worth the while. The problem is that in order to read Obi you may have to read the email trail where a supposedly educated folk is arguing that Nigeria does not have a parliament!

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On 14 Jul 2016, at 6:14 PM, guka...@comcast.net [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Some things deserve to be singled out acknowledged and praised.  What Nwakanma has done to this topic is stellar. The way he wraps up his answers in response to comments that precipitated them, is remarkable.   He writes so lucidly in a way that pleases the eyes and the mind at the same time, maintaining such great internal logical consistency, that is hard to detect outside thesis and dissertation conditions. The guy is unequivocally good in expressing good thinking in written words, but this time he upped it a bit and I read with interest.  Once in a while, such excellence need to be highlighted and celebrated.  Take a bow, bros, you deserve it. 

 

                         *ezekwe*

 

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional!"   ----- Obi Nwakanma

Before I graduated from primary school, I knew that any law or Act of Parliament is inferior to the Constitution. Joe Attueyi and Gregg Ukaegbu are shamelessly singing praise of a Ph.D holder that claims that "the Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution"! That an argument is "logical and persuasive" does not make it constitutional. The same Obi Nwakanma recently said the President who was elected to fight corruption "has no mandate to fight corruption"!

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

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Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

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[rotfash]

"Obi Nwakanma is a joy to read. He has this repertoire of knowledge that is very much uncommon. And as Gregg rightly pointed Obi has uncanny ability to express good thinking into written words. He is Chinua Achebe and Wole Soyinka combined." ----- Vin Otuonye.

Vin,

Your excerpted statement above is not surprising at all.

You are part of the Phillistine club boasting and gloating about the Goliath in its fold. It is a self-defeating quip that marks you as totally bereft of any understanding of self worth. Here you are, an acclaimed lawyer who is unable to properly articulate a matter of constitutionalism but consigns his brain function to a local champion. You are really afflicted with 'herd' mentality; a member of your clan, nay, the champion in the group can do no wrong!

Man, may be you should adopt your champion's name as a mark of your obsequious sycophancy/ loyalty to him.

You have,by your action, rewritten the code in lackeyism.

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: Vin Otuonye
Date:14/07/2016 8:25 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: naija...@googlegroups.com,"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" ,NaijaNews ,africanworld ,Okonkwonetworks ,Ola Kassim ,Nebu ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,Agbor Ike ,Abba ,naijao...@yahoogroups.com,"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Joe:
 
If you like yourself and value knowledge, don't be jealous or intimidated by those who know more than you. Embrace them. You'll learn from them. I say this to some people in this forum and I need not state their names as they know who they are.
 
Obi Nwakanma is a joy to read. He has this repertoire of knowledge that is very much uncommon. And as Gregg rightly pointed Obi has uncanny ability to express good thinking into written words. He is Chinua Achebe and Wole Soyinka combined.
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

---

From: naija...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:49:33 +0100
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[Asagwara, Ken (MET)]

Rotimi:

 

Are you really serious in stating that because Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye complimented Dr. Obi Nwakanma on his argumentative and expressive skills, he is now his lackey in your reckoning?

 

Well, if you can put away your subjective and bias mind for an ordered objectivity, you would agree that Obi Nwakanma has a good repository of knowledge and intellect in any subject or issue(s) he’s challenged to discuss. Does that mean he is flawless? Not really.

 

Cheers.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

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[rotimi fashakin]

Prince Asagwara:

Without a doubt, Obi Nwakanma evinces some flashes of brilliance in his interventions. I have had cause to restate this as a statement of fact.

However, it is also a mark of brilliance to know one's limitation; unfortunately, Obi Nwakanma does not seem to know that. This seems to be the grist for the mill in my disputation with him.

So if you read this in conjunction with my response to Vin Otuonye's, you will have a good grasp of my perspective.

 

Rotimi Fashakin

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From: "Asagwara, Ken (MET)" <Ken.As...@gov.mb.ca>
To: "'NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; Roth Fash <rot...@yahoo.com>; "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Ola Kassim <olaka...@aol.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; Agbor Ike <ikea...@yahoo.com>; Abba <abba...@gmail.com>; "naijao...@yahoogroups.com" <naijao...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:25 PM
Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: [NaijaPolitics] RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

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[Rex Marinus]

My brother Vin,

Ndewo. Yes, you're right about the hierarchies, and yes, Bolaji Aluko referred to it also, and covered some rather good grounds.  But as I'd say again, the question is not about the "supremacy" of the constitution but about the "inferiority" of the laws that flow from the constitution. Two fundamentally different questions which is now being conflated. Frankly, I think this matter is self-evident, but it has run its course. We are now in the "wanka" phase, when "Gbanjo" Lawyers and "Project Managers" who can't think or write, or even piss straight, and who really pretend to know what they issues are all about though they can hardly comprehend the language, start to call you names because they have nothing really to say. You see, you must be charitable: when you beat up a self-inflated man and press his mouth to the grass, and all he can do is run to a distance as say, "wanka!" you should call off the fight. Further discussion on this matter will be an abuse of intellect, and I urge, bro, draw the curtain on this. Let them abuse you all they want. But I salute.

Obi Nwakanma

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From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM
To: Rex Marinus; naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO Mobolaji; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

Obi Nwana:
 
Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws yesterday where I stated inter alia that the Constitution is superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...

 

But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:
 
1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law

9. Secondary authorities.

 

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

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From: rexma...@hotmail.com
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Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:35:19 +0000

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

S-I-L-E-N-C-E . . . . . the best answer for a fool! 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

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From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
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Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Here they come. Those whose jealousy won't even let them see beyond their nose. I say embrace those smarter than you and you may just learn something. Your emphasis on the word inferior makes no sense anyway because you have to read the whole sentence you quoted in its entirety. And when you read the sentence in its entirety, please pay attention to the reason given. The reason given starts from the word "because". If the electoral act is rooted in the Constitution, why would it be inferior to the Constitution? As I said in my previous email, the Constitution gives birth to the electoral act. While I say the Constitution gives birth to the electoral act, Obi Nwakanma puts it this way ... 'the Electoral Act is primarily rooted in the Constitution'. We are saying the same thing. The problem with some people here is simple English comprehension. This has been a major hindrance people have here. It is like Due Process. Often Stevek likes to talk too much about Due Process even when I believe he doesn't quite know what Due Process is. Now if I say Due process cannot be inferior to the Constitution, I am not belittling the Constitution because Due Process is an ingredient part of the Constitution.
 
Again embrace those smarter than you and all things will follow.
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

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Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 19:27:05 +0000
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Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

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[Olu Ojedokun]

Mr Rex,

The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.  

The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria and therefore could override it. You are unable to grasp that when any law is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution it is null, void and certainly of no effect.  It is that simple.

You should at least inject a bit of honesty into this discourse, sometimes you make a call and fall short, for no man is capable of knowing all. But to seek to twist and turn and confuse issues does you very little in terms of credit.

With Regards

Olu/

Visit my blog: http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>

[Olu Ojedokun]

Mr Rex,

The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.  

The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria and therefore could override it. You are unable to grasp that when any law is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution it is null, void and certainly of no effect.  It is that simple.

You should at least inject a bit of honesty into this discourse, sometimes you make a call and fall short, for no man is capable of knowing all. But to seek to twist and turn and confuse issues does you very little in terms of credit.

With Regards

Olu/

Visit my blog: http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
To: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>; africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianworldforum <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; Igbo Events <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>; ALUKO Mobolaji <alu...@gmail.com>; Agbor Ike <ikea...@yahoo.com>; rotfash <rot...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2016 11:57 pm

[afis 'Deinde]

Mr Rex,

The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.  

The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria and therefore could override it. You are unable to grasp that when any law is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution it is null, void and certainly of no effect.  It is that simple.

You should at least inject a bit of honesty into this discourse, sometimes you make a call and fall short, for no man is capable of knowing all. But to seek to twist and turn and confuse issues does you very little in terms of credit.

With Regards"......Olu/

Afis comment:  Thanks ojare Dr Ojedokun, for teaching this Nwakanma some lessons in law. This Nwakanma is full of shit.

He's a real Inyanminrin. 

Suddenly, he backs away from his stupid arguments, aligns himself with Vin Otuonye's presentation.

Now he is cornered, but he's not done. Nwakanma becomes Haruna Ilerikha, dribbling and weaving thru many defenders.

However, this Inyanminrin is dribbling in reverse unlike Ilerikha's forward match.

Ten moons ago, this Inyanminrin named Nwakanma was corrected umpteenth times, but he stuck to his Igbo Tales from the Crypt. 

Wo ojare, na una sabi.

It can't be better for Nigeria.

Una no change at all, walahi.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/HK2PR06MB164924847B23E30A7327547DDF320%40HK2PR06MB1649.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com.

[Joe Attueyi]

The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.  

Bro Olu,

Thanks for redirecting this debate to the original question--even though you are wrong in its definition 

The original question was:

1. Do we need a constitutional amendment BEFORE we can conduct a referendum for any part of Nigeria to democratically decide to secede or not

2. Obi's position is NO. The electoral act which is an act of the NA ,and not inconsistent with the constitution , already provides a basis for holding such a referendum without a need to amend the constitution 

3. My view is that past practice --- the Midwest Referendum ( and the South Cameroun plebiscite another) -- is proof that when agitation and political environment align all you need is a bill of NA showing the area and threshold for such a referendum NOT a constitutional amendment 

These are the arguments that got subsumed in 'inferiority of laws', grundnorm ' etc. 

Though I have followed your arguments on this trail I am not sure I have seen your answer to the original question 

Regardless of whether or not the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria do we need a constitutional amendment before we can hold a referendum in Nigeria?

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

[okoi_a...@yahoo.com]

Joe Attueyi, the referendum contemplated in the Constitution is in respect of creation of States Not Succession! The example of the old Mid West Region is not apt because the referendum concerning it was not in respect of Succession but craving out of the Mid West Region out of the old Western Region. Presently there is no provision in the 1999 Nigerian Constitution dealing with Succession!

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent Sent: Friday, 15 July 2016 06:38

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Obi Nwakanma:

You can "beat up" people with flowery language all that you want - and be serenaded by the mutual-admiration-society troika of Joe Attueyi, Vince Modebelu and Gregg Ukaegbu all that they want -  but at the end of the day, the basic premise of your statement which drew opprobrium from various quarters  - that other laws and statutes are at par with the Constitution SIMPLY because they flow from the Constitution, and that they can in fact be considered as "extensions" to the Constitution - is very flawed, either due to bad use of the English language, out of mischief, or both.

I want to re-emphasize "some (of my) rather good grounds" - your words, not mine, referred to by you with speedy obliqueness  - for the record:

1.  There are only "amendments" to Constitutions and to laws, not "extensions" as you once wrote.  Use of "extension" is bad legalese.

2.  Sections of laws and statutes (which form a hierarchy of laws with the Constitution) that are INCONSISTENT with certain sections of the Constitution - and even sections WITHIN a Constitution compared with other FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS sections of the same Constitution - are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and can be considered INFERIOR to those sections that they violate.  Those sections are void, and must be positively or negatively revised (amended) relative to the Constitution to give them teeth, otherwise they are dead letters. Sections of laws can therefore be considered INFERIOR to sections of the Constitution, since the reverse does not hold:  you do not strike down a section of a Constitution to enable an unconstitutional section of a law or statute to have life.

3.  Specifically with regard to referendum, all the nine references to "Referendum" in the Nigerian 1999 Constitution (as amended) in Sections 8, 69 and 110  refer either to recall of elected officials (executive and legislative, state and federal),  or to re-delineation of state and local government boundaries WITHIN the boundary of the united states of a federal Nigeria.  The 1963 Plebiscite that led to the creation of  the Midwest Region  therefore falls within this ambit.  So, a referendum to determine whether to secede from the union or not is currently PROHIBITED under the two canons of restrictive interpretation, namely "Expression unio est exclusion alterius" and "Expressium facit cessare facitum", meaning that "The express mention of one person, thing, or consequence implies the exclusion of all others"  and "What is expressed puts an end to what is implied. Where a statute is expressly limited to certain matters, it may not, by interpretation or construction, be extended to other matters."  Consequently, for such a referendum to occur, an amendment to the Constitution must first be sought and obtained.  INEC Electoral law cannot just be changed overnight to get that to happen, as you posited.

4.  Finally,  like your mention of the 1963 Midwest Plebiscite, the British Cameroon Plebiscite of  February 11, 1961 is also NOT relevant to the discussion, and you cannot use either of them to invoke the principle of "stare decisis,  et quieta non movere"  (To stand by precedents and not to disturb that which is settled: to follow decided cases; adhere to precedents)  By that time,  French Cameroon had gained independence from France on January 1, 1960, and Nigeria  gained Independence from Britain on October 1, 1960.  British (largely Southern) Cameroon was NOT a part of Nigeria, and hence was NOT subject to Nigerian Constitution, so the silence or presence of referendum in our Constitution was of no moment.  The plebiscite was organized under UNITED NATIONS sponsorship for Northern British Cameroon and Southern British Cameroon to SEPARATELY determine a result from ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES to achieve independence:

         1.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent Federation of Nigeria? 

OR

        2.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent Federation of Cameroon?

which 

(i)  the Reunification with Cameroon won resoundingly with 233,571 votes to Integration with Nigeria 97,741 votes in SOUTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, but 

(ii)  Integration with Nigeria winning resoundingly with 146,296 votes  over Reunification with Cameroon 97,659 votes in NORTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, all for reasons that need not be detain us here. 

So, Obi Nwakanma,  there was no issue of secession even from the Republic of Cameroon.  By June 1,  1961, the predominantly Moslem Northern British Cameroon was incorporated into Nigeria, while on October 1, 1961, Southern British Cameroon joined a federation with formerly French Cameroon.

Those are the facts, as different from fantasy.

I salute you too...and there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

 

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

The answer to your question is a resounding "YES" - you need an AMENDMENT to our present Constitution, no matter the loudness of the agitation, to mount a referendum for secession.

And here is why...

1.  Specifically with regard to referendums, all the nine references to "Referendum" in the Nigerian 1999 Constitution (as amended) in Sections 8, 69 and 110  refer either to recall of elected officials (executive and legislative, state and federal),  or to re-delineation of state and local government boundaries WITHIN the boundary of the united states of a federal Nigeria. (The 1999 Constitution are largely carry-overs from our 1963, in terms of Nigeria's territorial integrity.)  The 1963 Plebiscite that led to the creation of  the Midwest Region  therefore falls within this ambit.  So, a referendum to determine whether to secede from the union or not is currently PROHIBITED under the two canons of restrictive interpretation, namely "Expression unio est exclusion alterius" and "Expressium facit cessare facitum", meaning that "The express mention of one person, thing, or consequence implies the exclusion of all others"  and "What is expressed puts an end to what is implied. Where a statute is expressly limited to certain matters, it may not, by interpretation or construction, be extended to other matters."  Consequently, for such a referendum to occur, an amendment to the Constitution must first be sought and obtained.  INEC Electoral law cannot just be changed overnight to get that to happen, as you posited.

2.  Like your mention of the 1963 Midwest Plebiscite, the British Cameroon Plebiscite of  February 11, 1961 is also NOT relevant to the discussion, and you cannot use either of them to invoke the principle of "stare decisis,  et quieta non movere"  (To stand by precedents and not to disturb that which is settled: to follow decided cases; adhere to precedents)  By that time,  French Cameroon had gained independence from France on January 1, 1960, and Nigeria  gained Independence from Britain on October 1, 1960.  British (largely Southern) Cameroon was NOT a part of Nigeria, and hence was NOT subject to Nigerian Constitution, so the silence or presence of referendum in our Constitution was of no moment.  The plebiscite was organized under UNITED NATIONS sponsorship for Northern British Cameroon and Southern British Cameroon to SEPARATELY determine a result from ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES to achieve independence:

         1.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent Federation of Nigeria? 

OR

        2.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent Federation of Cameroon?

which 

(i)  the Reunification with Cameroon won resoundingly with 233,571 votes to Integration with Nigeria 97,741 votes in SOUTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, but 

(ii)  Integration with Nigeria winning resoundingly with 146,296 votes  over Reunification with Cameroon 97,659 votes in NORTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, all for reasons that need not be detain us here. 

So, Joe Attueyi,  there was no issue of secession even from the Republic of Cameroon, not to talk of from Nigeria.  By June 1,  1961, the predominantly Moslem Northern British Cameroon was incorporated into Nigeria, while on October 1, 1961, Southern British Cameroon joined a federation with formerly French Cameroon.

Those are the facts, as different from fantasy.

There you have it....I trust that you are convinced.  After all, you are neither Obi Nwakanma or Canice Onuoha.....I think.

Bolaji Aluko

[Joe Attueyi]

Okoi,

With due respect I don't think you are addressing the question. That '..there is no provision in the 1999 Nigerian Constitution dealing with Succession!( secession).." is not proof that in order for a referendum on secession to hold the constitution must necessarily be amended. 

1. In 1961 a referendum was held which merged Southern Cameroun with Nigeria ( opposite of secession).  There was no clause in the 1960 constitution '..dealing with merging a new territory withNigeria..'  But it did not require a constitutional amendment to effect that referendum 

That is the reason you have a parliament. To enact laws for the good governance of the people. 

You don't need more than a bill of NASS to do a referendum even for secession. 

To even stretch that argument, when YarAdua died without properly passing on power to his VP, there was no constitutional provision for dealing with that logjam. We did not go about amending the constitution to solve the problem. The parliament solved it. 

When the agitation for a referendum meets the right political environment NASS will pass a bill that will direct how and where the referendum will hold. 

Joe

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[rotfash]

Thank you, my ebullient Egbon Prof!

That response of yours is very illuminating indeed.

Unfortunately, Obi Nwakanma does not know that training in Engineering or the Science ensures such stunning elasticity of the mind to conceive and grasp ideas faster than the humanities. 

One of the best quoted jurists in human history, Lord Alfred Denning, started as a mathematician!

I don't even believe that a law can be enacted in isolation without any bearing on the grundnum. 

For instance, the constitution makes provision for the establishment of the Nigeria police force and goes to enshrine that the Inspector General of police shall carry out any directive given by the president or his designated minister. 

Now if you read section 9 of the Police act, it uses the exact language of the constitution.

I am sure the wise in heart, among our brothers, are already changing their positions after these interventions from you and others. After all, that is the essence of discussion groups like this!

Rotimi Fashakin

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------

From: Mobolaji Aluko
Date:15/07/2016 7:59 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: Joe Attueyi
Cc: Nebukadineze Adiele' via NaijaEvent ,Vin otuonye ,africanw...@googlegroups.com,okonkwo...@googlegroups.com,NigerianWorldForum ,igbo events ,Uwa ndiIgbo ,okoi...@hotmail.com,Ike Agbor ,rotimi fashakin ,Bring Your Baseball Bat ,Politics Naija ,"niger...@yahoogroups.com" ,Ra'ayi Riga ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,Omo Oodua
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Joe Attueyi:

The answer to your question is a resounding "YES" - you need an AMENDMENT
to our present Constitution, no matter the loudness of the agitation, to
mount a referendum for secession.

And here is why...

1.  Specifically with regard to referendums, all the nine references to
"Referendum" in the Nigerian 1999 Constitution (as amended) in Sections 8,
69 and 110  refer either to recall of elected officials (executive and
legislative, state and federal),  or to re-delineation of state and local
government boundaries WITHIN the boundary of the united states of a federal
Nigeria. (The 1999 Constitution are largely carry-overs from our 1963, in
terms of Nigeria's territorial integrity.)  The 1963 Plebiscite that led to
the creation of  the Midwest Region  therefore falls within this ambit.
So, a referendum to determine whether to secede from the union or not is
currently PROHIBITED under the two canons of restrictive interpretation,

namely "*Expression unio est exclusion alterius*" and "*Expressium facit
cessare facitum*", meaning that "The express mention of one person, thing,

or consequence implies the exclusion of all others"  and "What is expressed
puts an end to what is implied. Where a statute is expressly limited to
certain matters, it may not, by interpretation or construction, be extended
to other matters."  Consequently, for such a referendum to occur, an
amendment to the Constitution must first be sought and obtained.  INEC
Electoral law cannot just be changed overnight to get that to happen, as
you posited.

2.  Like your mention of the 1963 Midwest Plebiscite, the British Cameroon
Plebiscite of  February 11, 1961 is also NOT relevant to the discussion,

and you cannot use either of them to invoke the principle of "*stare
decisis,  et quieta non movere*"  (To stand by precedents and not to

disturb that which is settled: to follow decided cases; adhere to
precedents)  By that time,  French Cameroon had gained independence from
France on January 1, 1960, and Nigeria  gained Independence from Britain on
October 1, 1960.  British (largely Southern) Cameroon was NOT a part of
Nigeria, and hence was NOT subject to Nigerian Constitution, so the silence
or presence of referendum in our Constitution was of no moment.  The
plebiscite was organized under UNITED NATIONS sponsorship for Northern
British Cameroon and Southern British Cameroon to SEPARATELY determine a
result from ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES to achieve independence:

         *1.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the
Independent Federation of Nigeria? *

*OR*

*        2.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent
Federation of Cameroon?*

which

(i)  the Reunification with Cameroon won resoundingly with 233,571 votes to
Integration with Nigeria 97,741 votes in SOUTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, but

(ii)  Integration with Nigeria winning resoundingly with 146,296 votes
over Reunification with Cameroon 97,659 votes in NORTHERN BRITISH
CAMEROON, all for reasons that need not be detain us here.

So, Joe Attueyi,  there was no issue of secession even from the Republic of
Cameroon, not to talk of from Nigeria.  By June 1,  1961, the predominantly
Moslem Northern British Cameroon was incorporated into Nigeria, while
on October
1, 1961, Southern British Cameroon joined a federation with formerly French
Cameroon.

Those are the facts, as different from fantasy.

There you have it....I trust that you are convinced.  After all, you are
neither Obi Nwakanma or Canice Onuoha.....I think.



Bolaji Aluko


On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 6:37 AM, Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> *The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never

> about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a
> question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated

> legislation does not count as inferior.  *

>
>
> Bro Olu,
> Thanks for redirecting this debate to the original question--even though
> you are wrong in its definition
>
> The original question was:
>

> 1. *Do we need a constitutional amendment BEFORE we can conduct a

> referendum for any part of Nigeria to democratically decide to secede or

> not*

>
> 2. Obi's position is NO. The electoral act which is an act of the NA ,and
> not inconsistent with the constitution , already provides a basis for
> holding such a referendum without a need to amend the constitution
>
> 3. My view is that past practice --- the Midwest Referendum ( and the
> South Cameroun plebiscite another) -- is proof that when agitation and
> political environment align all you need is a bill of NA showing the area
> and threshold for such a referendum NOT a constitutional amendment
>
> These are the arguments that got subsumed in 'inferiority of laws',
> grundnorm ' etc.
>
> Though I have followed your arguments on this trail I am not sure I have
> seen your answer to the original question
>

> Regardless of whether or not *the Electoral law was at par or even above
> the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria *do we need a constitutional

> amendment before we can hold a referendum in Nigeria?
>
>
> Joe
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 15 Jul 2016, at 4:39 AM, 'Olu Ojedokun' via NaijaEvent <
> naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Mr Rex,
>
> The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never
> about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a
> question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated
> legislation does not count as inferior.
>
> The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was at

> par or even above the constitution the *Grundnorm* of Nigeria and

> ------------------------------
> *From:* Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM
> *To:* Rex Marinus; naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld;

> okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
> Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO
> Mobolaji; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com

> *Subject:* RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>
> *Obi Nwana:*

>
> Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon
> plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the
> hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws

> yesterday where I stated *inter alia* that the Constitution is

> superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...
>
> But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is
> concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the
> same applies to Nigeria:
>
> 1. US Constitution
>
> 2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules
>
> 3. Federal administrative agency rules
>
> 4. Federal Common law cases
>
> 5. State Constitutions
>
> 6. State Statues and court rules
>
> 7. State agency rules
>
> 8. State Common law case law
>
> 9. Secondary authorities.
>

> *Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye*
>
> ------------------------------

> subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of *stare decisis et
> quieta non movere*.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's

> otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws.
> But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as
> you have rightly observed. It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just
> grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law
> proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the
> constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes, or case
> laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said
> my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that
> this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media,
> but which has been squelched by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of
> contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.
> Obi Nwakanma
>
>
>
>

> ------------------------------
> *From:* naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on

> behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>

> *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM
> *To:* naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld;
> okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>
> *Iguade*:

> *Chris Nwachukwu*, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he

> used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this

> statement *'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO

> NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies

> of constitutional jurisprudence'*. The phrase these emergency
> constitutional lawyers is plural.
>
> *Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye*
>
> ------------------------------

> *Okoi:*

>
> Chris Chima Nwachukwu is a lawyer. I know him. He is based here in
> Atlanta. I don't understand your quip about ignorance and
> emergency constitutional lawyers. Besides, Chris Nwachukwu made it clear
> that the Constitution of Nigeria is Supreme to the Electoral Act. So I
> don't understand your anger. But please note your statement should be 'All
> these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't)
> know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies of constitutional
> jurisprudence'.
>
> But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is
> concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the
> same applies to Nigeria:
>
> 1. US Constitution
>
> 2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules
>
> 3. Federal administrative agency rules
>
> 4. Federal Common law cases
>
> 5. State Constitutions
>
> 6. State Statues and court rules
>
> 7. State agency rules
>
> 8. State Common law case law
>
> 9. Secondary authorities.
>

> *Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye*
>
>
>
> ------------------------------

> From: okoi...@hotmail.com
> To: naija...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:46:39 +0000
>
> Ignorance is a bad thing! All these emergency constitutional lawyers who
> doesn't know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies ‎ of
> constitutional jurisprudence come here to talk poppy cock!
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

> *From: *cncnwachukwu via NaijaEvent
> *Sent: *Wednesday, 13 July 2016 19:35
> *To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Reply To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

> ------------------------------
> *From:* naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on

> behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
> *To:* Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex
> Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20;

> USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke;
> abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001;
> asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson;
> drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere;
> Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude;
> atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum;
> info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis;
> aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan;
> ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed;
> zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida;
> alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo;
> vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info;
> glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria;
> kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events;
> IgboWorldForum

> *Subject:* Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

>
> Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the
> Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The
> Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the
> source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act.
> In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy
> to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the
> Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the
> Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures
> including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must
> flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will
> amount to a breach of the Constitution.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

> *From: *Rex Marinus
> *Sent: *Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18
> *To: *Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus;
> africanw...@googlegroups.com
> *Reply To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc: *NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20;

> USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke;
> abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001;
> asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson;
> drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere;
> Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude;
> atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum;
> info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis;
> aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan;
> ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed;
> zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida;
> alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo;
> vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info;
> glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria;
> kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events;
> IgboWorldForum

> *Subject: *Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

>
> Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of
> the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is
> covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a
> referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law
> itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a
> referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It
> already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY:
> throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of
> Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the
> electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for
> that petition to pass as a vote.
> Obi Nwakanma
>
>
>
>

> ------------------------------
> *From:* africanw...@googlegroups.com <

> africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <
> okoi...@hotmail.com>

> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
> *To:* Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba;
> naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip;

> AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp;
> collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade;
> Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
> uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo;
> YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize;
> salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji;
> davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80;
> ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007;
> oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke;
> pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba;
> informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim;
> kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe;
> talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara;
> msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara;
> naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum

> *Subject:* [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS &

> SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST
> OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>
> Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the
> right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix
> these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any
> clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is
> to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to
> decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is
> strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the
> holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the
> Supreme Court is academic!
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

> *From: *Rex Marinus
> *Sent: *Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19
> *To: *Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Reply To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc: *NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip;

> AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp;
> collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade;
> Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
> uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo;
> YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize;
> salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji;
> davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80;
> ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007;
> oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke;
> pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba;
> informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim;
> kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe;
> talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara;
> msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara;
> naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum

> *Subject: *To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF

> NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>
> "There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a
> referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi
>
>
> Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is
> this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already
> existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits,
> conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because
> it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the
> National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is
> a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of
> the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by
> international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral
> counsellor to the president.
> Obi Nwakanma
>
>
>
>

> ------------------------------
> *From:* naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on

> behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:44 AM
> *To:* Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip;

> AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp;
> collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade;
> Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
> uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo;
> YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize;
> salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji;
> davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80;
> ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007;
> oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke;
> pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba;
> informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim;
> kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe;
> talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara;
> msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara;
> naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo

> *Subject:* Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO

> THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF
> NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>
> Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the
> conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So
> those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are
> living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is
> so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully
>  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other
> component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National
> Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the
> Constitution.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

> *From: *Ayo Ojutalayo
> *Sent: *Tuesday, 12 July 2016 06:32
> *To: *Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Reply To: *Ayo Ojutalayo
> *Cc: *Okoi; NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip;

> AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp;
> collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade;
> Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
> uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo;
> YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize;
> salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji;
> davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80;
> ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007;
> oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke;
> pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba;
> informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim;
> kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe;
> talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara;
> msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara;
> naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo

> *Subject: *Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE

> PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA
> – REMINDER (5)
>

> *Patrick Nwakuba: *One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and

> Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to
> "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about
> it. Period.

> *Ayo Ojutalayo:* In the event that Biafra's existence happens through

> peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond
> today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans
> should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).
>

> *Patrick Nwakuba:* If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise

> Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the
> recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that
> ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

> *Ayo Ojutalayo: * If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did

> you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his
> Constitutional Conference?
>
>
> Ayo Ojutalayo
>

> *“The ultimate measure of a man is not where* h*e stands in moments of

> comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and

> controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr*
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Patrick Nwakuba <pnwa...@yahoo.com>
> *To:* naija...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* Okoi <okoi...@hotmail.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <

[Joe Attueyi]

Prof Aluko

I do not agree with your views. 

The merging of a new territory into Nigeria ( southern Cameroun's addition to Nigeria) is the flip side of the same coin as the secession of a territory from Nigeria. 

If one side of the coin can happen through referendum without a constitutional amendment then the other side can also happen through referendum without a constitutional amendment 

The mechanics of how it actually happens is a different matter all together. After all we generated the 'doctrine of necessity' to solve a constitutional logjam when we had to. 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAORq2DDQqtq0KGKNPb8UyRrG-rVuJwAfkYpFN4uzh8mxB6USTg%40mail.gmail.com.

[rotfash]

Joe:

You know as well as I do that the doctrine of necessity was allowed to pass because there was a kind of unanimity to it across the length and breadth of Nigeria.

I do believe if one iconoclastic fellow had challenged it in court, it would have been thrown out as unconstitutional!

Cheers.

Rotimi Fashakin

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------

>>> From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM
>>> To: Rex Marinus; naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO Mobolaji; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com
>>> Subject: RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>> 
>>> Obi Nwana:
>>> 
>>> Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws yesterday where I stated inter alia that the Constitution is superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...
>>> 
>>> But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:
>>> 
>>> 1. US Constitution
>>>
>>> 2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules
>>>
>>> 3. Federal administrative agency rules
>>>
>>> 4. Federal Common law cases
>>>
>>> 5. State Constitutions
>>>
>>> 6. State Statues and court rules
>>>
>>> 7. State agency rules
>>>
>>> 8. State Common law case law
>>>
>>> 9. Secondary authorities.
>>> 
>>> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
>>> 

>>> From: rexma...@hotmail.com
>>> To: naija...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com
>>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:35:19 +0000
>>>
>>> "Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria"
>>> -Vin Otuonye
>>>
>>>
>>> Vin Nwanna,
>>> On the contrary, I did say that suffrage (the right to vote) already exists and is covered in the constitution, and to put it in a different way, amplified in the Electoral Act whose foundation is the constitution. I did say that the constitution already provides for the referendum - the right of citizens to vote directly on an issue in at least one specific instance, the recall process, and therefore we would not re-invent the wheel on the matter of whether a referendum can be called on any subject that has to do with the rights of the citizen already guaranteed by the constitution. We gave the example of the precedents in the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961, and the referendum creating the Midwest region in 1963. The constitution already empowers the process, and does not need to spell out the petition for separation/secession in the constitution as the subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of stare decisis et quieta non movere.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws. But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as you have rightly observed. It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes, or case laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media, but which has been squelched by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.
>>> Obi Nwakanma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM
>>> To: naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>> 
>>> Iguade:
>>> 
>>> My mobile phone reply takes a day or two to post. I don't know why. But below is close to what I replied to yesterday.
>>> 
>>> I told you to always support or defend the RIGHT thing and don't fixate yourself with WHO wrote what. If you fixate yourself with the person and not the idea, you lose sight because you'll not always see the good stuff the person you dislike contribute to this forum. If Obi Nwakanma present a brilliant argument, as he often does, support it instead of fixating with Obi the person you may not like.
>>> 
>>> But to your point below, I don't recall reading Obi Nwakanma say that the electoral act is superior to the Constitution. All I read him state is that the electoral act and the Constitution are intertwined. It is the Constitution that gives birth to the electoral act. If the electoral act runs afoul of the Constitution, it will be declared illegal, null and void. Because the electoral act has not been declared illegal, I posit it is constitutional.
>>> 
>>> Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria.
>>> 
>>> The Constitution will not list everything we'll want to be in the document but if we pay close attention, implicitly, those things are covered. Voting may not be present in the Constitution, however I believe voting is implicitly  stated in that document.
>>> 
>>> The Constitution list election of offices and went further to list the offices. The offices of the President, Vice President, Senators, Federal House Members, Governors, Deputy Governors and State House members are won by election not selection. And the election and voting for these offices are by the citizens. Thus, the fact that the Constitution did not implicitly state voting, that on itself does not mean voting is not in the Constitution. How do we elect the offices I enumerated if not by voting?
>>> 
>>> Please note my use of the capital letter C with regard the Constitution. I recall how my constitutional law professor drummed it in our ears that the Constitution is a living document. We should treat it with respect.
>>> 
>>> Chris Nwachukwu, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this statement 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'. The phrase these emergency constitutional lawyers is plural.
>>> 
>>> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
>>> 

>>> From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
>>> To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
>>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>> 
>>> Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution.
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
>>> From: Rex Marinus
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18
>>> To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
>>> Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
>>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>>
>>> Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
>>> Obi Nwakanma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  

>>> From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
>>> To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
>>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>>> 
>>> Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic!
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
>>> From: Rex Marinus
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19
>>> To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
>>> Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
>>> Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>>>
>>> "There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi
>>>
>>>
>>> Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.
>>> Obi Nwakanma
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  

>>> From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:44 AM
>>> To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
>>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo
>>> Subject: Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>>> 
>>> Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the Constitution. 
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
>>> From: Ayo Ojutalayo
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 06:32
>>> To: Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
>>> Reply To: Ayo Ojutalayo
>>> Cc: Okoi; NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo
>>> Subject: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>>>
>>> Patrick Nwakuba: One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period.
>>> Ayo Ojutalayo: In the event that Biafra's existence happens through peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).
>>>
>>> Patrick Nwakuba: If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.
>>> Ayo Ojutalayo:  If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his Constitutional Conference?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>>
>>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>>
>>>

[Joe Attueyi]

Roteh:

There was definitely no unanimity around the 'doctrine of necessity '. If there was , the doctrine would not have been necessary in the first place. Are you saying the 'cabal' was in support of the 'doctrine '?

The overwhelming political environment had aligned with the agitation for Jonathan to take over. 

When the overwhelming political environment aligns with the agitation for secession the NASS will pass a bill for referendum. 

The longer engineers like Rotimi Fashakin cannot be trusted to run the NPAs of Nigeria because of their region of origin the nearer that 'overwhelming political environment ' is. 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[Afis Deinde]

Well, I have nothing I can add. 

I firstly wanted to use a part as "quotables", but as I kept reading I discovered if I sliced one part, and made no mention of others which are equally logical, I was afraid I might ended up "over-expressing" one, while those not "expressed" became unknown.

So, to do justice to all that were logically "expressed" by our indomitable unconquerable VC, I hereby "express" all:

 "Obi Nwakanma:

You can "beat up" people with flowery language all that you want - and be serenaded by the mutual-admiration-society troika of Joe Attueyi, Vince Modebelu and Gregg Ukaegbu all that they want -  but at the end of the day, the basic premise of your statement which drew opprobrium from various quarters  - that other laws and statutes are at par with the Constitution SIMPLY because they flow from the Constitution, and that they can in fact be considered as "extensions" to the Constitution - is very flawed, either due to bad use of the English language, out of mischief, or both.

I want to re-emphasize "some (of my) rather good grounds" - your words, not mine, referred to by you with speedy obliqueness  - for the record:

1.  There are only "amendments" to Constitutions and to laws, not "extensions" as you once wrote.  Use of "extension" is bad legalese.

2.  Sections of laws and statutes (which form a hierarchy of laws with the Constitution) that are INCONSISTENT with certain sections of the Constitution - and even sections WITHIN a Constitution compared with other FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS sections of the same Constitution - are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and can be considered INFERIOR to those sections that they violate.  Those sections are void, and must be positively or negatively revised (amended) relative to the Constitution to give them teeth, otherwise they are dead letters. Sections of laws can therefore be considered INFERIOR to sections of the Constitution, since the reverse does not hold:  you do not strike down a section of a Constitution to enable an unconstitutional section of a law or statute to have life.

3.  Specifically with regard to referendum, all the nine references to "Referendum" in the Nigerian 1999 Constitution (as amended) in Sections 8, 69 and 110  refer either to recall of elected officials (executive and legislative, state and federal),  or to re-delineation of state and local government boundaries WITHIN the boundary of the united states of a federal Nigeria.  The 1963 Plebiscite that led to the creation of  the Midwest Region  therefore falls within this ambit.  So, a referendum to determine whether to secede from the union or not is currently PROHIBITED under the two canons of restrictive interpretation, namely "Expression unio est exclusion alterius" and "Expressium facit cessare facitum", meaning that "The express mention of one person, thing, or consequence implies the exclusion of all others"  and "What is expressed puts an end to what is implied. Where a statute is expressly limited to certain matters, it may not, by interpretation or construction, be extended to other matters."  Consequently, for such a referendum to occur, an amendment to the Constitution must first be sought and obtained.  INEC Electoral law cannot just be changed overnight to get that to happen, as you posited.

4.  Finally,  like your mention of the 1963 Midwest Plebiscite, the British Cameroon Plebiscite of  February 11, 1961 is also NOT relevant to the discussion, and you cannot use either of them to invoke the principle of "stare decisis,  et quieta non movere"  (To stand by precedents and not to disturb that which is settled: to follow decided cases; adhere to precedents)  By that time,  French Cameroon had gained independence from France on January 1, 1960, and Nigeria  gained Independence from Britain on October 1, 1960.  British (largely Southern) Cameroon was NOT a part of Nigeria, and hence was NOT subject to Nigerian Constitution, so the silence or presence of referendum in our Constitution was of no moment.  The plebiscite was organized under UNITED NATIONS sponsorship for Northern British Cameroon and Southern British Cameroon to SEPARATELY determine a result from ONLY TWO ALTERNATIVES to achieve independence:

         1.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent Federation of Nigeria? 

OR

        2.  Do you want to achieve Independence by joining the Independent Federation of Cameroon?

which 

(i)  the Reunification with Cameroon won resoundingly with 233,571 votes to Integration with Nigeria 97,741 votes in SOUTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, but 

(ii)  Integration with Nigeria winning resoundingly with 146,296 votes  over Reunification with Cameroon 97,659 votes in NORTHERN BRITISH CAMEROON, all for reasons that need not be detain us here. 

So, Obi Nwakanma,  there was no issue of secession even from the Republic of Cameroon.  By June 1,  1961, the predominantly Moslem Northern British Cameroon was incorporated into Nigeria, while on October 1, 1961, Southern British Cameroon joined a federation with formerly French Cameroon.

Those are the facts, as different from fantasy.

I salute you too...and there you have it."......Dr Bolaji Aluko.

****

I HOPE I DID NOT LEAVE ANYTHING UNEXPRESSED!

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAORq2DDLjpVfY8JXEtiwsw3CiHP6dSvB_-HFVMq_COe0es8oqg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Afis Deinde]

I keep wondering why it is always an Inyanminrin that ends up reading books upside down like a blind bat in a Tora Bora cave.

How long have lived in this world?

Don't we read or hear a law is "unconstitutional"?

Don't Americans call the constitution their Bible?

Attueyi and Nwakanma are now twisting and turning, grabbing each other's claws like crabs in a basket. 

Wo ojare, una three much.

And these Inyanminrins wanna rule themselves?

Here comes Equitorial Guinea, Eya ehanna Eya keya, Eya kana ni won ati Equitorial Guinea.

Let Igbos rule themselves, in twenty months one of them will overthrow the government.
Too much Stubborn Ewu-s.

Shikena 

 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAORq2DDQqtq0KGKNPb8UyRrG-rVuJwAfkYpFN4uzh8mxB6USTg%40mail.gmail.com.

[rotfash]

Joe:

As your brother, and friend for sometime, I know you have very huge capacity for mischief.

The cabal around the late Yar'aqua was already feeling the huge pressure from.the citizens. You recall the memo from the indefatigable amazon, Dora Akunyili? The tide was overwhelming against the cabal; on January 14, 2010, GMB and Alhaji Atiku Abubakar submitted a letter to David Mark (SP) to swear in VP Jonathan as Acting President immediately.

So it was a matter of time for the lacuna in the constitution to be plugged!

There is no need for insinuations about appointment. When NIMASA boss was appointed from the South, was there any such ethnically bigoted insinuation from you. 

Some of us (elite) are thieves or potential thieves; in our mind, we have farmed out some positions as very lucrative and show intense aversion if they are not given to people from our neck of the wood.

Never mind, we all have our time with God because He (God) makes all things beautiful in His time!

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: 'Joe Attueyi' via OkonkwoNetworks
Date:15/07/2016 9:59 AM (GMT+01:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Nebukadineze Adiele' via NaijaEvent ,Vin otuonye ,"okonkwonetworks@googlegroups com" ,NigerianWorldForum ,igbo events ,Uwa ndiIgbo ,okoi...@hotmail.com,Ike Agbor ,Bring Your Baseball Bat ,Politics Naija ,"niger...@yahoogroups.com" ,Ra'ayi Riga ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,Omo Oodua
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Roteh:
There was definitely no unanimity around the 'doctrine of necessity '. If there was , the doctrine would not have been necessary in the first place. Are you saying the 'cabal' was in support of the 'doctrine '?

The overwhelming political environment had aligned with the agitation for Jonathan to take over.

When the overwhelming political environment aligns with the agitation for secession the NASS will pass a bill for referendum.

The longer engineers like Rotimi Fashakin cannot be trusted to run the NPAs of Nigeria because of their region of origin the nearer that 'overwhelming political environment ' is.

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

> On 15 Jul 2016, at 9:06 AM, 'rotfash' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Joe:
> You know as well as I do that the doctrine of necessity was allowed to pass because there was a kind of unanimity to it across the length and breadth of Nigeria.
> I do believe if one iconoclastic fellow had challenged it in court, it would have been thrown out as unconstitutional!
> Cheers.
> Rotimi Fashakin
>
>
> Sent from Samsung Mobile
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Joe Attueyi
> Date:15/07/2016 8:46 AM (GMT+01:00)
> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
> Cc: Nebukadineze Adiele' via NaijaEvent ,Vin otuonye ,okonkwo...@googlegroups.com,NigerianWorldForum ,igbo events ,Uwa ndiIgbo ,okoi...@hotmail.com,Ike Agbor ,rotimi fashakin ,Bring Your Baseball Bat ,Politics Naija ,"niger...@yahoogroups.com" ,Ra'ayi Riga ,"Yahoo! Inc." ,Omo Oodua
> Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>
> Prof Aluko
> I do not agree with your views.
>
> The merging of a new territory into Nigeria ( southern Cameroun's addition to Nigeria) is the flip side of the same coin as the secession of a territory from Nigeria.
>
> If one side of the coin can happen through referendum without a constitutional amendment then the other side can also happen through referendum without a constitutional amendment
>
> The mechanics of how it actually happens is a different matter all together. After all we generated the 'doctrine of necessity' to solve a constitutional logjam when we had to.
>

> Joe
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

> >>> From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM
> >>> To: Rex Marinus; naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO Mobolaji; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com
> >>> Subject: RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
> >>> 
> >>> Obi Nwana:
> >>> 
> >>> Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws yesterday where I stated inter alia that the Constitution is superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...
> >>> 
> >>> But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:
> >>> 
> >>> 1. US Constitution
> >>>
> >>> 2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules
> >>>
> >>> 3. Federal administrative agency rules
> >>>
> >>> 4. Federal Common law cases
> >>>
> >>> 5. State Constitutions
> >>>
> >>> 6. State Statues and court rules
> >>>
> >>> 7. State agency rules
> >>>
> >>> 8. State Common law case law
> >>>
> >>> 9. Secondary authorities.
> >>> 
> >>> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
> >>> 

> >>> From: rexma...@hotmail.com
> >>> To: naija...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com
> >>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
> >>> Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:35:19 +0000
> >>>
> >>> "Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria"
> >>> -Vin Otuonye
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Vin Nwanna,
> >>> On the contrary, I did say that suffrage (the right to vote) already exists and is covered in the constitution, and to put it in a different way, amplified in the Electoral Act whose foundation is the constitution. I did say that the constitution already provides for the referendum - the right of citizens to vote directly on an issue in at least one specific instance, the recall process, and therefore we would not re-invent the wheel on the matter of whether a referendum can be called on any subject that has to do with the rights of the citizen already guaranteed by the constitution. We gave the example of the precedents in the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961, and the referendum creating the Midwest region in 1963. The constitution already empowers the process, and does not need to spell out the petition for separation/secession in the constitution as the subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of stare decisis et quieta non movere.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws. But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as you have rightly observed. It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes, or case laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media, but which has been squelched by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.
> >>> Obi Nwakanma
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>

> >>> From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM
> >>> To: naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
> >>> 
> >>> Iguade:
> >>> 
> >>> My mobile phone reply takes a day or two to post. I don't know why. But below is close to what I replied to yesterday.
> >>> 
> >>> I told you to always support or defend the RIGHT thing and don't fixate yourself with WHO wrote what. If you fixate yourself with the person and not the idea, you lose sight because you'll not always see the good stuff the person you dislike contribute to this forum. If Obi Nwakanma present a brilliant argument, as he often does, support it instead of fixating with Obi the person you may not like.
> >>> 
> >>> But to your point below, I don't recall reading Obi Nwakanma say that the electoral act is superior to the Constitution. All I read him state is that the electoral act and the Constitution are intertwined. It is the Constitution that gives birth to the electoral act. If the electoral act runs afoul of the Constitution, it will be declared illegal, null and void. Because the electoral act has not been declared illegal, I posit it is constitutional.
> >>> 
> >>> Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria.
> >>> 
> >>> The Constitution will not list everything we'll want to be in the document but if we pay close attention, implicitly, those things are covered. Voting may not be present in the Constitution, however I believe voting is implicitly  stated in that document.
> >>> 
> >>> The Constitution list election of offices and went further to list the offices. The offices of the President, Vice President, Senators, Federal House Members, Governors, Deputy Governors and State House members are won by election not selection. And the election and voting for these offices are by the citizens. Thus, the fact that the Constitution did not implicitly state voting, that on itself does not mean voting is not in the Constitution. How do we elect the offices I enumerated if not by voting?
> >>> 
> >>> Please note my use of the capital letter C with regard the Constitution. I recall how my constitutional law professor drummed it in our ears that the Constitution is a living document. We should treat it with respect.
> >>> 
> >>> Chris Nwachukwu, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this statement 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'. The phrase these emergency constitutional lawyers is plural.
> >>> 
> >>> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
> >>> 

> >>> From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
> >>> To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
> >>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
> >>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
> >>> 
> >>> Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> >>> From: Rex Marinus
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18
> >>> To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
> >>> Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
> >>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
> >>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
> >>>
> >>> Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
> >>> Obi Nwakanma
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  

> >>> From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
> >>> To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
> >>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
> >>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
> >>> 
> >>> Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic!
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
> >>> From: Rex Marinus
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19
> >>> To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
> >>> Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
> >>> Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
> >>> Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
> >>>
> >>> "There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.
> >>> Obi Nwakanma
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

1.  WIth due respect, I was stating FACTS, not my views or opinions.

2.  The referenda in Northern and British Southern Cameroon were NOT held in either Nigeria or Cameroon, but in neutral regions. Therefore, those referenda cannot be referenced as precedence.

3.  In any case, in the 1960 Constitution, there is no room for alienation of land from within Nigeria, but there is room for alienation of citizenship, and acquisition of territory (adjustment of boundaries) to enlarge Nigeria such that such persons are CITIZENS of Nigeria:

QUOTE

http://www.worldstatesmen.org/nigeria_const1960.pdf

Territories of the Federation 

 3. - (1) There shall be three Regions, that is to say, Northern Nigeria, Western Nigeria and Eastern Nigeria. 

 (2) Northern Nigeria shall comprise those parts of the former Protectorate of Nigeria that on the thirtieth day of September, 1960, were comprised in the Northern Region of Nigeria. 

 (3) Western Nigeria shall comprise those parts of the former Colony and Protectorate of Nigeria that on the thirtieth day of September, 1960, were comprised in the Western Region of Nigeria. 

 (4) Eastern Nigeria shall comprise those parts of the former Protectorate of Nigeria that on the thirtieth day of September, 1960, were comprised in the Eastern Region of Nigeria. 

 (5) The Federal territory shall comprise those parts of the former Colony of Nigeria that on the thirtieth day of September, 1960, were comprised in the Federal Territory of Lagos. 

Alteration of this Constitution 

 4. - (1) Parliament may alter any of the provisions of this Constitution or (in so far as it forms part of the law of Nigeria) any of the provisions of the Nigeria Independence Act, 1960: Provided that, in so far as it alters any of the provisions of this section, sections l, 2, 5, 6, 17 to 33 inclusive, 36, 37, 38, 45, 46, 47, 57, 62 to 87 inclusive, 97 to 106 inclusive, 108, ll0, ll2, ll4 to ll8 inclusive, 120, 121, 123, 124, 127 to 141 inclusive, 145, 146, 148, 150 and the Schedule to this Constitution or (in so far as they apply to any of those provisions) sections 61 and 154 of this Constitution or any of the provisions of the Nigeria Independence Act, 1960, an Act of Parliament shall not come into operation unless each legislative house of at least two Regions has passed a resolution signifying consent to it having effect. 

 (2) A bill for an Act of Parliament under this section, not being an Act to which subsection (3) of this section applies, shall not be passed in either House of Parliament unless it has been supported on second and third readings by the votes of not less than two-thirds of all the members of that House. 

 (3) Alterations to section 3 of this Constitution for the purpose of establishing new Regions out of other territories shall be effected only in accordance with the following procedure- 

 (a) a proposal for the alteration shah be submitted to each House of Parliament and, if that proposal is approved by a resolution of each of those Houses supported by the votes of at least two-thirds of all the members of that House, the proposal shall then be submitted to the legislative houses of all the Regions; and 

 (b) if the proposal is approved- (i) by a resolution of each legislative house of a majority. of all the Regions; or (ii) by a resolution of each legislative house of at least two Regions, including any Region comprising any part of Nigeria that would be transferred to the new Region under the proposal, Parliament may provide for the alteration. 

(4) Alterations to section 3 of this Constitution for the purpose of altering the boundaries of territories by the transfer of any part of one territory to another territory shall be effected only in accordance with the following procedure- 

 (a) a proposal for the alteration shall be submitted to each House of Parliament and, if that proposal is approved by a resolu- tion of each of those Houses supported by the votes of at least two-thirds of all the members of that House, the proposal shall then be submitted to the legislative houses of all the Regions; and 

 (b) if the proposal is approved- (i) by a resolution of each legislative house of a majority of all the Regions, including any Region to which any part of Nigeria comprised in another territory would be transferred under the proposal; or (ii) by a resolution of each legislative house of each Region comprising any part of Nigeria that would be trans- ferred either to or from that Region under the proposal, Parliament may provide for the alteration: Provided that the procedure described in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this subsection need not be followed if the alteration is for the purpose of transferring an area of not more than one thousand square miles inhabited by. not more than one hundred thousand persons from one Region to another Region or Regions. 

 (5) An Act of Parliament passed for the purposes of subsection (3) of this section or an Act of Parliament passed for the purposes of subsection (4) of this section, being an Act to effect an alteration in respect of which the procedure described in paragraphs (a) and (b) thereof is required to be followed, shall not come into operation unless - 

(a) a resolution has been passed by each legislative 'house of at least two Regions signifying consent to its having effect; and 

(b) a referendum upon the question whether the Act should have effect has been held in pursuance of provision made in that behalf by Parliament in every part of Nigeria that would be comprised in a new Region or transferred from one territory to another, as the case may be, at which the persons entitled to vote were the persons who at the date of the referendum were entitled to vote in any constituency in that part of Nigeria established under section 46 of this Constitution and at which at least three-fifties of all the persons who were entitled to vote at the referendum voted in favour of the Act.

.....

....

15. Parliament may make provision—

 (a) for the acquisition of citizenship of Nigeria by persons who do not become citizens of Nigeria by virtue of the provisions of this Chapter; 

 (b) for depriving of his citizenship of Nigeria any person who is a citizen of Nigeria otherwise than by virtue of subsection (1) of section 7 or section 10 of this Constitution; or 

(c) for the renunciation by any person of his citizenship of Nigeria. 

UNQUOTE

4. Finally, the "Doctrine of Necessity" was unconstitutional, and is eminently non-stare-decisis, even though  I agree that it can be invoked again,   However, I thought that Obi Nwakanma and yourself were trying to clothe a Referendum for Secession in settled constitutionality?  If you are pulling back from that stance, no problem.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/1FB5A5F3-7F95-4E62-B8A0-07C7685F0300%40yahoo.com.

[Joe Attueyi]

Hehehehe! Got you there Roteh!

Paraphrasing you: 

When the political environment is aligned '...GMB and Alhaji Atiku Abubakar ( will submit ) submitted a letter to David Mark ( Bukola Saraki) (SP) ....."

At the current trajectory that 'when' does not seem to be very far away. 

Joe


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[rotfash]

Hahaha Joe Attueyi

You must have received lots of slaps from Chief Paul Amenechi when he was Gregs principal.

[Olu Ojedokun]

Pastor Joe,

Thanks for yours. So in simple terms what would be required to make such a referendum binding and not simply advisory?

[Olu Ojedokun]

Pastor Joe,

Thanks for yours. So in simple terms what would be required to make such a referendum binding and not simply advisory?

With Regards

Olu/

Visit my blog: http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/

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[Joe Attueyi]

Bro Olu

That is a deep question you ask. 

1. Acts of NASS are laws of the land. A referendum passed within the ambit of an Act of NASS should be binding 

2. Even where legally a referendum result is advisory-- it would still be politically binding. That is why PM May of Britain, even though a Remainer says 'Brexit is Brexit'.  Though the Brexit vote was advisory it has become binding--because the will of the people expressed democratically is the highest law of the land!

3. I think we also must pay attention to UN Charter on self determination to which Nigeria freely subscribed. I am no expert in international law but it seems to legally bind Nigeria to the right of self determination by any group of people so desirous of such

Joe

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To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/155ee2ab054-765-3634%40webprd-m36.mail.aol.com.

[employ...@aol.com]

Thank you pastor.

But what if the Act is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution then what happens? 

With Regards

Olu/

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: 'Joe Attueyi' via AfricanWorldForum Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:59 To: africanw...@googlegroups.com Reply To: africanw...@googlegroups.com Cc: naija...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/4C265C04-7E2C-4D27-A94F-AE53EBEF6919%40yahoo.com.

[Joe Attueyi]

Bro Olu

1. My understanding from all I have read so far is that there is no specific reference to 'referendum for secession ' in the constitution. 

2. Which was the basis of my first intervention with Okoi. He said that given (1) we would require a constitutional amendment to provide a clause for 'referendum for secession ". I disagreed with that position. As in 1963 an ACT of parliament is enough legal basis to hold a referendum----That is if the UN charter on self determination is not enough. 

3. Given (1) above it is not practically possible for the new referendum Act to be "..inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution "

Joe
Sent from my iPhone

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Attueyi:

Please understand that the 1963 Republican Constitution was IDENTICAL to the 1960 Independence with respect to referendums for adjustment of boundaries WITHIN the united Federation of Nigeria. (The differences were only in the substitution of President for Governor-General; separate constitutions for each Region; ability for each region to have a Representative in foreign capitals, particularly the UK; residual powers being in the Regions rather than at the center, etc.) 

So an act of Parliament was necessary NOT to specify this class of referendums -  but simply to DELINEATE the boundaries of MidWestern Nigeria,  specify the  voters in question, outline procedures and to set dates, etc.

As to the UN Charter of Self-Determination, if it gets to the application of that, then the Blue Hats of the UN may have to TAKE OVER Nigeria - or the land in question - or the UN exert such onerous sanctions on Nigeria that that would FORCE Nigeria to amend its Constitution to allow for referendum.  Even the UN would not want Nigeria to do something UNCONSTITUTIONAL.  That is why the UN wants DOMESTICATION of his rules - and not all countries do that.

Bottom line?  Nothing stops agitation for Referendum for Secession, but the reality is that it must be preceded by a change in our current Constitution.  You can get your Representatives in our National Assembly to sponsor it.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

[Joe Attueyi]

Dr Dada

An Act of the NASS first has to be passed by the 2 Houses of Parliament and signed by Mr  President ( or his veto overridden by 2/3rd members of NASS)

If 2/3 members get an Act in place --even for their pensions and/ or immunity then we Nigerians get the laws we deserve 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 2:04 PM, 'G.Dada' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Pastor Joe,

If we allow referendum passed within the ambit of an Act of NASS to be binding as they want to have immunity for their Leaders and perpetual pension, we are now allowing some NASS Leaders to become Leaders for Life.

These people will be doing everything possible because of the immunity including but not limited to the killing of the opponents to make sure they win every election as witnessed in some parts of the country during last election.

Behaviors of Ayo Fasoye is another example of a politician using immunity for his reckless behaviors.

We should remove immunity for the Governors and Deputy Governors too in Nigeria.

Dada

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Imperial:

Actually, the US does nothing different from other nations in the world:  all national laws are SUPERIOR to even international law, until and unless you DOMESTICATE those international laws within your own country.  The UN, WTO, ECOWAS, etc. expect you to DOMESTICATE their laws, so that judges within your country can use them when citizens and corporations (both domestic and international) have litigations.

What makes the US (and the other big powers) a little distinct from other (smaller) nations is its ability to withstand international pressure when it resists such domestication.    To a lot of extent, Brexit is congealed resistance to constant requirement to domesticate EU laws.

That is the fact, as different from fantasy.

Bolaji Aluko

Bolaji Aluko

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Alagba Olu, 

Majority of these online fellows live in the United  States and they know that while the American statute laws - made by the act of Congress - could be subordinated  to International or UN laws, I have learned over years that the yanks have never treated international laws as superior to their constitution . 

Where there is any conflict between the US constitution and the international, the US constitution to the Americans always prevail. Might is always right . 

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[DIPO ENIOLA]

If an Act is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution, it is the responsibility of the Courts to invalidate such Act. And of course, the Act will be null and void and of no effect. 

The Oha 1

Ahu Nze Ebie Okwu


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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Imperial:

What you wrote below is patently INCORRECT.  There is no BLANKET provision for referendum in our Constitution.  There are nine SPECIFIC references to Referendum in our Constitution in Sections 8, 69 and 110,, and they have SPECIFICALLY defined thresholds and procedures for ratification, depending on whether we are dealing with boundary adjustments for new and old state and local governments, or recall or national or state legislators:

QUOTE   8. (1) An Act of the National Assembly for the purpose of creating a new State shall only be passed if- (a) a request, supported by at least two-thirds majority of members (representing the area demanding the creation of the new State) in each of the following, namely - (i) the Senate and the House of Representatives, (ii) the House of Assembly in respect of the area, and (iii) the local government councils in respect of the area, is received by the National Assembly; (b) a proposal for the creation of the State is thereafter approved in a referendum by at least two-thirds majority of the people of the area where the demand for creation of the State originated; (c) the result of the referendum is then approved by a simple majority of all the States of the Federation supported by a simple majority of members of the Houses of Assembly; and (d) the proposal is approved by a resolution passed by two-thirds majority of members of each House of the National Assembly. ..... ......(3) A bill for a Law of a House of Assembly for the purpose of creating a new local government area shall only be passed if - (a) a request supported by at least two-thirds majority of members (representing the area demanding the creation of the new local government area) in each of the following, namely - (i) the House of Assembly in respect of the area, and (ii) the local government councils in respect of the area, is received by the House of Assembly; (b) a proposal for the creation of the local government area is thereafter approved in a referendum by at least two-thirds majority of the people of the local government area where the demand for the proposed local government area originated; (c) the result of the referendum is then approved by a simple majority of the members in each local government council in a majority of all the local government councils in the State; and (d) the result of the referendum is approved by a resolution passed by two-thirds majority of members of the House of Assembly.

.....

......

69. A member of the Senate or of the House Representatives may be recalled as such a member if -

(a) there is presented to the Chairman of the Independent National Electoral Commission a petition in that behalf signed by more than one-half of the persons registered to vote in that member's constituency alleging their loss of confidence in that member; and

(b) the petition is thereafter, in a referendum conducted by the Independent National Electoral Commission within ninety days of the date of receipt of the petition, approved by a simple majority of the votes of the persons registered to vote in that member's constituency.

.......

.....

110. A member of the House of Assembly may be recalled as such a member if -

(a) there is presented to the Chairman of the Independent National Electoral Commission a petition in that behalf signed by more than one-half of the persons registered to vote in that members's constituency alleging their loss of confidence in that member; and

(b) the petition is thereafter, in a referendum conducted by the Independent National Electoral Commission within ninety days of the date of the receipt of the petition, approved by a simple majority of the votes of the persons registered to vote in that member's constituency.

UNQUOTE

So you have to be more specific.

Bolaji Aluko

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Joseph the pastorpreneur, 

In Nigeria, referendum is a constitutional matter . 

You need the support of the two thirds of NASS members and the president . In addition to two thirds of members in the two thirds of 36 state assemblies including the federal capital territory, Abuja, plus  with two thirds of the state governors . 

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[Rex Marinus]

Joe,

It is the practice all over the  democratic world that we have something called "legislative immunity" or "parliamentary immunity." Every elected legislator must be immune from prosecution, especially for opinions, or conducts, carried on within the legislative Chambers. The immunity is also usually Partial immunity, and can only be withdrawn by two methods: through the Appeals Court, and through parliament itself if the need arises to prosecute a legislator. Parliamentary immunity is sine qua non to the conduct of democracy because it buffers members of parliament from the overreaching actions and intentions of a potentially vindictive and power-hungry executive branch. As I said the immunity accorded parliamentarians is always "partial immunity" and not total. A legislator who commits murder can of course be prosecuted under the criminal act and his immunity withdrawn, on a prima facie basis, by a superior court, or by parliament itself.

There are always checks and balances. The reason why legislative immunity is necessary is to buffer legislators from harassment while they are performing their legislative duties. To deny them that leaves the Parliament vulnerable and unprotected by itself. There was legislative immunity during the 1st and second republics. Immunity must not only be accorded to the leadership of the houses but to all members of parliament, otherwise you'd have what we call a "sitting duck Assembly." Those arguing against immunity for parliament are short-sighted and are not thinking in really broad and strategic terms. A vulnerable parliament is most dangerous to the practice of democracy. Nigerian parliamentarians are no worse, not more corrupt, than others, what should be clear is that it requires an organized citizenry to force the parliament to toe the public line. The power of the people are reserved in the recall option if they perceive that their representative is misrepresenting them. Corruption in parliament is minor. Corruption in Nigeria takes place in the executive branch. That is where all the money is stolen nd misspent. That is where all the contracts are awarded.  That is where we have the Civil Service, which is the executor of the will of government. Without civil service reform, there will continue to be corruption. And so, we are looking at corruption in the wrong places. It is not in parliament, it is in the executive branch, and without an immune legislature, and an alert citizenry, the executive branch will spiral into absolutism and corruption, and the watchdog and oversight power and role of parliament will be severely undermined and compromised. That is why civilized and democratic societies provide their legislature with the immunity of the legislature.
Obi Nwakanma

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From: 'Joe Attueyi' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 1:17 PM
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[Asagwara, Ken (MET)]

Yep; Dipo Eniola my yeye friend got it right.

 

It’s amazing how some folks use frivolous arguments to complicate simple political and legal issues that are at 101 level college undergraduate courses.

 

Cheers.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

[Try it now]

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[Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla]

Stevek, absolutely! That is my position from the onset! You cannot read into the Constitution what is not intended by the Writers! If the Writers of the Constitution intended that any part of the country can secede they will have provided that in the Constitution!  

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Stevek Sent: Friday, 15 July 2016 16:13 To: NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com Reply To: Stevek Cc: G.Dada; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Imperial and all,

This is what happens when honest people become naïve and allow mischief-making stealth revanchist to control the narrative.

The 1999 Constitution was not wren with secession in mind. It makes no provision for secession. Period!

What you have posted below - in Chap. 1 Sect. 8(1) - has respect ONLY TO THE CREATION OF STATES. THERE IS NO REFERENDA PROVISION FOR SECESSION OF ANYPART OF THE FEDERATION.

As it stands - to my limited understanding as a non-legally trained law professional reading the simple Constitution of the FRN - parts of Nigeria can seceded only through new legislation by the NASS or through armed conflict.

Let's us stop wasting our time pretending that we are - those who are trained or know by other means - trying to educate those stealth revanchist who are pretending not to know.

There was a war for the continued existence of Nigeria. It was won and settled.

I, and most well-meaning Nigerians, will join a New War to fight for justice - and all other civil rights - for all citizens and all part of the federation with the Truth, not liesif there is an honest discussion for that..

And that is a completely different matter.

Stevek

Mitchellville, Maryland

The most dangerous trend in the world today is the growing awareness of the common man - Zbigniew Brzezinsky 1978

A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume

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From: "Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver]" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>
To: YanA...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: G.Dada <gd...@aol.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 9:30 AM
Subject: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

Joseph the pastorpreneur, 

In Nigeria, referendum is a constitutional matter . 

You need the support of the two thirds of NASS members and the president . In addition to two thirds of members in the two thirds of 36 state assemblies including the federal capital territory, Abuja, plus  with two thirds of the state governors . 

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 2:17 PM, Joe Attueyi topc...@yahoo.com [YanArewa] <YanA...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
Obi Nwakanma

From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM

To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19

To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

"There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi


Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.
Obi Nwakanma

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:44 AM

To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo
Subject: Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the Constitution.  

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Ayo Ojutalayo Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 06:32

To: Patrick Nwakuba; mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: Ayo Ojutalayo Cc: Okoi; NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo Subject: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Patrick Nwakuba: One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

Ayo Ojutalayo: In the event that Biafra's existence happens through peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).

Patrick Nwakuba: If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

Ayo Ojutalayo:  If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his Constitutional Conference?

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Patrick Nwakuba <pnwa...@yahoo.com>

To: mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Okoi <okoi...@hotmail.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; ofume.phillip <ofume....@gmail.com>; Ayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; AfricanWorldForum <AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com>; jniang20 <jnia...@gmail.com>; USAAfricaDialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; ybraimoh <ybra...@nigeriansenate.org>; jikenya <jik...@nigeriansenate.org>; caroftp <car...@yahoo.com>; collyezebuihe <collye...@hotmail.com>; bolajumoke <bolaj...@nigeriansenate.org>; abi4truth <abi4...@yahoo.co.uk>; nidan-group <nidan...@googlegroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; Christianandmuslimyoth <Christianan...@gmail.com>; odidere2001 <odide...@yahoo.com>; asimeon <asi...@nigeriansenate.org>; gakume <gak...@nigeriansenate.org>; bolajipundit011 <bolajip...@yahoo.com>; uali <ua...@nigeriansenate.org>; Ola <olaka...@aol.com>; awofeso <awo...@mwebafrica.com>; Vin <abuj...@gmail.com>; femmylawson <femmy...@yahoo.com>; drkcasagwara <drkcas...@shaw.ca>; ougbesia <ougb...@nigeriansenate.org>; gsekibo <gse...@nigeriansenate.org>; YanArewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; ainuwa <ain...@nigeriansenate.org>; bhenshaw <bhen...@nigeriansenate.org>; euzamere <euza...@nigeriansenate.org>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; abagudu <aba...@nigeriansenate.org>; igbonize <igbo...@yahoo.com>; salihumustafa <salihu...@gmail.com>; Ezeana <pach...@yahoo.com>; ibk <i...@usa.net>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; aude <au...@nigeriansenate.org>; atelba <ate...@nigeriansenate.org>; ozodiosuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>; davidwest62 <david...@yahoo.com>; ericayoola <erica...@aol.co.uk>; sakinyede <saki...@nigeriansenate.org>; IgboWorldForum <IgboWor...@yahoogroups.com>; info <in...@apc.com.ng>; africatoday80 <africa...@gmail.com>; ibanga.nh <iban...@gmail.com>; madeleke <made...@nigeriansenate.org>; edoregeneration <edorege...@yahoo.co.uk>; afis <odide...@gmail.com>; aeferakeya <aefer...@nigeriansenate.org>; sadeyemi <sade...@nigeriansenate.org>; abba2007 <abba...@gmail.com>; oohize <ooh...@nigeriansenate.org>; Peter <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; gngaji <gng...@nigeriansenate.org>; arise <ar...@nigeriansenate.org>; utafidan <utaf...@nigeriansenate.org>; ozodiosuji <ozodi...@yahoo.ca>; nigerianID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; aadeleke <aade...@nigeriansenate.org>; pcdbooks <pcdb...@yahoo.com>; agwu22 <agw...@yahoo.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; mmuhammed <mmuh...@nigeriansenate.org>; zekwueme <zekw...@yahoo.com>; rexmarinus1966 <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; vegba <ve...@nigeriansenate.org>; informative.media2016 <informativ...@yahoo.co.uk>; abrahammadu <abrah...@yahoo.com>; iida <ii...@nigeriansenate.org>; alawan <ala...@nigeriansenate.org>; nugbane <nug...@nigeriansenate.org>; bibrahim <bibr...@nigeriansenate.org>; kingsnna <king...@yahoo.com>; limptintinc <limpt...@gmail.com>; Naijanet <naij...@googlegroups.com>; "wharfsnake@yahoo" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; vin_modebelu <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; posakwe <pos...@nigeriansenate.org>; talknigeria <talkn...@yahoo.com>; alukome <alu...@gmail.com>; aayuba <aay...@nigeriansenate.org>; edo_global <edo_g...@yahoo.com>; info <in...@nigeriansenate.org>; glado <gl...@nigeriansenate.org>; ken.asagwara <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; msjoe21st <msjo...@aol.com>; aooduma <aoo...@nigeriansenate.org>; gsaraki <gsa...@nigeriansenate.org>; jmanager <jman...@nigeriansenate.org>; talknigeria <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; kcprinceasagwara <kcprince...@shaw.ca>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; news <ne...@frontpageafricaonline.com>; adeyemoadetokunbo <adeyemoa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Cool Breeze;

Don't you think the more we keep responding to this Stupid Rueben Okalana's stupid rants, the more he thinks he is an opinion maker for the Ikwerre? One thing must be very clear to him and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

P. Nwakuba 

Having my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Okoi and Rueben Emekna Naijaremain.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 10, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

Emeka Okala:

Look at you. Just as we have Hausa Banza, we also have Igbo Banza and you're sure Igbo Banza. But please check your writing. It is TURN around not TOWN around. But honestly Igbo doesn't need the SS for any referendum. They can do it alone. But who are the SS anyway? If you look at the SS, Igbo make up the largest group in the SS. So those Igbo in the SS, should they be allowed to join their kiths and kins for the referendum or should they be forced to stay in your One Nigeria?

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

On Jul 10, 2016 8:42 AM, Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rev. Okala, absolutely! The minorities of the defunct Eastern Region will never forget the discrimination and deprivation they suffered in the defunct Eastern Region! It got so bad that  late Professor Eyo Ita was forced to resign his position as the Leader of Government Business in the defunct Eastern Regional House of Assembly because he was an ethnic minority! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Ayo Ojutalayo Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 13:23

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Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Sounds better as Igboexit or Igboremain! Before referendum, Igbo will need to get the Constitution amended making the referendum constitutional. First thing first!

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[rotfash]

Dear Obi Nwakanma,

Again,  let me tackle you on some of the wild swings contained in yours.

First, are you, by any stretch, suggesting that this immunity you are advocating for the Nigerian legislators should go beyond the general immunity as regards opinions, conduct, etc expressed in the hallowed chambers and, specifically, giving them immunity outside the precincts of the Parliament?

Second, if the foregoing question is answered affirmatively, can you point at one clime, in the entire democratic world, where your imagined scenario subsists?

When you answer those two posers, I need to add that you are obviously out of tune with realities in the Nigeria polity. Citizens are speaking out loudly to demand that the parliamentary immunity enjoyed by legislators within the hallowed chambers should foreclose any criminality committed therein, given the penchant of the lawmakers for resorting to unimaginable superfluity of indecencies? The other day, a legislator turned the mace into a destructive weapon for clobbering every moving being in sight. If he committed murder in that hallowed chambers, you want him to be free from prosecution?

Again, if senator Dino Melaye had carried out his threat of beating up a female senator and had forced himself on her in the hallowed chambers, he should also be free from prosecution?

Again, your suggestion revealed some vacuity of mind and utter thoughtlessness. Before resorting to needless anger, let me explain. Whilst the executive offices are term-barred, that is, the maximum duration that the occupier of any executive position can remain in office; the legislative offices are not term-barred. In other words, a legislator can be elected to the parliament as many times as his age and health can carry him. In fact, in established climes, acuity of the parliamentary culture is determined by the number for a legislator. 

You need understand that, in Nigeria, the Senate has virtually become a retirement home for former governors. Do you now suggest that if a Fayose, 

with culpability in some criminal activities, should virtually become free from prosecution all his because he has become a senator after shedding off gubernatorial toga?

Now you see what I mean that,scratching beyond the surface of your suggestion would reveal its worthlessness for the Nigerian situation?!

I salute you Sir.

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------

From: Rex Marinus
Date:15/07/2016 3:00 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: "G.Dada" ,Joe Attueyi
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com,naija...@googlegroups.com,vincent...@msn.com,nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com,igboe...@yahoogroups.com,igbowor...@yahoogroups.com,okoi...@hotmail.com,alu...@gmail.com,ikea...@yahoo.com,rot...@yahoo.com,naijao...@yahoogroups.com,naijap...@yahoogroups.com,niger...@yahoogroups.com,raay...@yahoogroups.com,yana...@yahoogroups.com,omo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Joe,
It is the practice all over the  democratic world that we have something called "legislative immunity" or "parliamentary immunity." Every elected legislator must be immune from prosecution, especially for opinions, or conducts, carried on within the legislative Chambers. The immunity is also usually Partial immunity, and can only be withdrawn by two methods: through the Appeals Court, and through parliament itself if the need arises to prosecute a legislator. Parliamentary immunity is sine qua non to the conduct of democracy because it buffers members of parliament from the overreaching actions and intentions of a potentially vindictive and power-hungry executive branch. As I said the immunity accorded parliamentarians is always "partial immunity" and not total. A legislator who commits murder can of course be prosecuted under the criminal act and his immunity withdrawn, on a prima facie basis, by a superior court, or by parliament itself.

There are always checks and balances. The reason why legislative immunity is necessary is to buffer legislators from harassment while they are performing their legislative duties. To deny them that leaves the Parliament vulnerable and unprotected by itself. There was legislative immunity during the 1st and second republics. Immunity must not only be accorded to the leadership of the houses but to all members of parliament, otherwise you'd have what we call a "sitting duck Assembly." Those arguing against immunity for parliament are short-sighted and are not thinking in really broad and strategic terms. A vulnerable parliament is most dangerous to the practice of democracy. Nigerian parliamentarians are no worse, not more corrupt, than others, what should be clear is that it requires an organized citizenry to force the parliament to toe the public line. The power of the people are reserved in the recall option if they perceive that their representative is misrepresenting them. Corruption in parliament is minor. Corruption in Nigeria takes place in the executive branch. That is where all the money is stolen nd misspent. That is where all the contracts are awarded.  That is where we have the Civil Service, which is the executor of the will of government. Without civil service reform, there will continue to be corruption. And so, we are looking at corruption in the wrong places. It is not in parliament, it is in the executive branch, and without an immune legislature, and an alert citizenry, the executive branch will spiral into absolutism and corruption, and the watchdog and oversight power and role of parliament will be severely undermined and compromised. That is why civilized and democratic societies provide their legislature with the immunity of the legislature.
Obi Nwakanma

________________________________

From: 'Joe Attueyi' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 1:17 PM
To: G.Dada

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Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Dr Dada
An Act of the NASS first has to be passed by the 2 Houses of Parliament and signed by Mr  President ( or his veto overridden by 2/3rd members of NASS)

If 2/3 members get an Act in place --even for their pensions and/ or immunity then we Nigerians get the laws we deserve

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 2:04 PM, 'G.Dada' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Pastor Joe,

If we allow referendum passed within the ambit of an Act of NASS to be binding as they want to have immunity for their Leaders and perpetual pension, we are now allowing some NASS Leaders to become Leaders for Life.

These people will be doing everything possible because of the immunity including but not limited to the killing of the opponents to make sure they win every election as witnessed in some parts of the country during last election.

Behaviors of Ayo Fasoye is another example of a politician using immunity for his reckless behaviors.

We should remove immunity for the Governors and Deputy Governors too in Nigeria.

Dada



-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 6:59 am
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Bro Olu
That is a deep question you ask.

1. Acts of NASS are laws of the land. A referendum passed within the ambit of an Act of NASS should be binding

2. Even where legally a referendum result is advisory-- it would still be politically binding. That is why PM May of Britain, even though a Remainer says 'Brexit is Brexit'.  Though the Brexit vote was advisory it has become binding--because the will of the people expressed democratically is the highest law of the land!

3. I think we also must pay attention to UN Charter on self determination to which Nigeria freely subscribed. I am no expert in international law but it seems to legally bind Nigeria to the right of self determination by any group of people so desirous of such

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 11:47 AM, 'Olu Ojedokun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com<mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Pastor Joe,

Thanks for yours. So in simple terms what would be required to make such a referendum binding and not simply advisory?

With Regards

Olu/

Visit my blog: http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/




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Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 6:38 am
Subject: Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.

Bro Olu,
Thanks for redirecting this debate to the original question--even though you are wrong in its definition

The original question was:

1. Do we need a constitutional amendment BEFORE we can conduct a referendum for any part of Nigeria to democratically decide to secede or not

2. Obi's position is NO. The electoral act which is an act of the NA ,and not inconsistent with the constitution , already provides a basis for holding such a referendum without a need to amend the constitution

3. My view is that past practice --- the Midwest Referendum ( and the South Cameroun plebiscite another) -- is proof that when agitation and political environment align all you need is a bill of NA showing the area and threshold for such a referendum NOT a constitutional amendment

These are the arguments that got subsumed in 'inferiority of laws', grundnorm ' etc.

Though I have followed your arguments on this trail I am not sure I have seen your answer to the original question

Regardless of whether or not the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria do we need a constitutional amendment before we can hold a referendum in Nigeria?


Joe
Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 4:39 AM, 'Olu Ojedokun' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>> wrote:

Mr Rex,

The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.

The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria and therefore could override it. You are unable to grasp that when any law is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution it is null, void and certainly of no effect.  It is that simple.

You should at least inject a bit of honesty into this discourse, sometimes you make a call and fall short, for no man is capable of knowing all. But to seek to twist and turn and confuse issues does you very little in terms of credit.

With Regards

Olu/

Visit my blog: http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/




-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com<mailto:rexma...@hotmail.com>>
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Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2016 11:57 pm
Subject: Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT


My brother Vin,
Ndewo. Yes, you're right about the hierarchies, and yes, Bolaji Aluko referred to it also, and covered some rather good grounds.  But as I'd say again, the question is not about the "supremacy" of the constitution but about the "inferiority" of the laws that flow from the constitution. Two fundamentally different questions which is now being conflated. Frankly, I think this matter is self-evident, but it has run its course. We are now in the "wanka" phase, when "Gbanjo" Lawyers and "Project Managers" who can't think or write, or even piss straight, and who really pretend to know what they issues are all about though they can hardly comprehend the language, start to call you names because they have nothing really to say. You see, you must be charitable: when you beat up a self-inflated man and press his mouth to the grass, and all he can do is run to a distance as say, "wanka!" you should call off the fight. Further discussion on this matter will be an abuse of intellect, and I urge, bro, draw the curtain on this. Let them abuse you all they want. But I salute.
Obi Nwakanma


________________________________

From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com<mailto:vincent...@msn.com>>

Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM

To: Rex Marinus; naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO Mobolaji; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com<mailto:rot...@yahoo.com>

Subject: RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Obi Nwana:

Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws yesterday where I stated inter alia that the Constitution is superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...

But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:

1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law

9. Secondary authorities.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

________________________________

From: rexma...@hotmail.com<mailto:rexma...@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:35:19 +0000

"Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria"
-Vin Otuonye


Vin Nwanna,
On the contrary, I did say that suffrage (the right to vote) already exists and is covered in the constitution, and to put it in a different way, amplified in the Electoral Act whose foundation is the constitution. I did say that the constitution already provides for the referendum - the right of citizens to vote directly on an issue in at least one specific instance, the recall process, and therefore we would not re-invent the wheel on the matter of whether a referendum can be called on any subject that has to do with the rights of the citizen already guaranteed by the constitution. We gave the example of the precedents in the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961, and the referendum creating the Midwest region in 1963. The constitution already empowers the process, and does not need to spell out the petition for separation/secession in the constitution as the subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of stare decisis et quieta non movere.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws. But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as you have rightly observed. It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes, or case laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media, but which has been squelched by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.
Obi Nwakanma




________________________________

From: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com> <naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com<mailto:vincent...@msn.com>>

Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM

To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>; africanworld; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Iguade:

My mobile phone reply takes a day or two to post. I don't know why. But below is close to what I replied to yesterday.

I told you to always support or defend the RIGHT thing and don't fixate yourself with WHO wrote what. If you fixate yourself with the person and not the idea, you lose sight because you'll not always see the good stuff the person you dislike contribute to this forum. If Obi Nwakanma present a brilliant argument, as he often does, support it instead of fixating with Obi the person you may not like.

But to your point below, I don't recall reading Obi Nwakanma say that the electoral act is superior to the Constitution. All I read him state is that the electoral act and the Constitution are intertwined. It is the Constitution that gives birth to the electoral act. If the electoral act runs afoul of the Constitution, it will be declared illegal, null and void. Because the electoral act has not been declared illegal, I posit it is constitutional.

Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria.

The Constitution will not list everything we'll want to be in the document but if we pay close attention, implicitly, those things are covered. Voting may not be present in the Constitution, however I believe voting is implicitly  stated in that document.

The Constitution list election of offices and went further to list the offices. The offices of the President, Vice President, Senators, Federal House Members, Governors, Deputy Governors and State House members are won by election not selection. And the election and voting for these offices are by the citizens. Thus, the fact that the Constitution did not implicitly state voting, that on itself does not mean voting is not in the Constitution. How do we elect the offices I enumerated if not by voting?

Please note my use of the capital letter C with regard the Constitution. I recall how my constitutional law professor drummed it in our ears that the Constitution is a living document. We should treat it with respect.

Chris Nwachukwu, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this statement 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'. The phrase these emergency constitutional lawyers is plural.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

________________________________
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 19:32:20 -0400

From: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>
To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Dear Vin,

I don't think Okoi was referring to me; he was referring to the previous writer.

Chris Chima Nwachukwu


-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com<mailto:igu...@hotmail.com>>
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Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2016 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Vin,

Why are you not defending Obi's statement that electoral laws are superior to the Constitution, Hehehehe!

Rastafarian dude, your bosom buddy is at it again, smoking ganja and talking trash to excercise is fucked up mind from marijuana. Rastafarian dude, please get real - there is no way a law, or ANY law from NASS is superior to the Constitution. FULL STOP, period!!!

Obi, please stop your nonsense. People like Vin already support your bullshit, quit while ahead.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com<mailto:vincent...@msn.com>> wrote:

Okoi:

Chris Chima Nwachukwu is a lawyer. I know him. He is based here in Atlanta. I don't understand your quip about ignorance and emergency constitutional lawyers. Besides, Chris Nwachukwu made it clear that the Constitution of Nigeria is Supreme to the Electoral Act. So I don't understand your anger. But please note your statement should be 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'.

But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:

1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law

9. Secondary authorities.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye



________________________________

From: okoi...@hotmail.com<mailto:okoi...@hotmail.com>
To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>; naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:46:39 +0000

Ignorance is a bad thing! All these emergency constitutional lawyers who doesn't know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies ? of constitutional jurisprudence come here to talk poppy cock!

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: cncnwachukwu via NaijaEvent
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 19:35

To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>
Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT



Dear Mazi Nwakuba:

Constitution of Nigeria is supreme to the Electoral Act. If the electoral Act is in conflict with the constitution, the constitution shall prevail.

Chris Chima Nwachukwu

-----Original Message-----
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To: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com<mailto:rexma...@hotmail.com>>
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Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2016 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy.- Obi Nwakanma.

The above from Dr. Obi Nwakanma is the truth and nothing but the truth. For an Officer of the Court to state in the World Wide Web that an electoral law of a nation is inferior to the constitution of that nation makes you wonder what law school some of these so-called learned gentlemen attended. Folks what happened to the basic Law 101 or what we should called the Principles of Law?
My question to Okoi is this could the electoral laws be legally binding if the act creating the electoral law was not based in the the constitution of the nation. No wonder Nigeria has so many engineers, yet we still rely on the German MCC and Julius Bergers for our road constructions. Too many Ph.Ds that cannot write a simple memo and too many lawyers that cannot draft common CFOs and simply powers of attorney for a simple purchase. Tufiakwa.
P. Nwakuba
Still contemplating on what to do with my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Nigeria. No apologies.

On Jul 13, 2016, at 10:59 AM, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com<mailto:rexma...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

"let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act."
-Okoi


Okoi, I'm still trying to wrap my head around your statement above because it is counterintuitive! The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy. Without that right, all talk about a democracy or a republic is sham and contrived. With due respect, Okoi, I should really not be the ne telling you all this. You are an officer of the courts, sworn to defend these rights.


You do not need an amendment of the constitution to establish the referendum. That right to a referendum is already established under the rights of suffrage, and can neither be questioned, nor evacuated. The question regarding whether to dismantle a federation is not a legal question, it is a democratic question. There was once a Senegambia federation. There was once an East African federation. There is nothing sacrosanct about national boundaries as the Cameroonian plebiscite proved in 1961, and the Midwest referendum proved in 1963. As Joe Atueyi has shown, it did not require any extraordinary constitutional measures, except that which was already inherent in the constitution to conduct these refrenda. It would only require the parliament to set down a committee, empower the national Population Commission to determine the demographic weight of the region, and hand over the details of the conduct of the referendum to the National Election Commission, which is an independent body, but which actually should be under either the Ministry of Home Affairs or the Ministry of Establishment, in other circumstances. We have examples everywhere else in the world to guide us. Nigeria does not exist in Mars.
Obi Nwakanma




________________________________

From: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com> <naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com<mailto:okoi...@hotmail.com>>

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM

To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com<mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ?country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution.

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: Rex Marinus
Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18

To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com<mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT


Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
Obi Nwakanma




________________________________

From: africanw...@googlegroups.com<mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com> <africanw...@googlegroups.com<mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com>> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com<mailto:okoi...@hotmail.com>>

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM

To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA - REMINDER (5)

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t?he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic!

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
From: Rex Marinus
Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19

To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>
Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com<mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com>

[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

EMEKA NWA OKALA: ENGINEERS ARE GOOD INSANE PEOPLE. I PROMISE ALSO TO POST YOUR ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS ON NIGERIAN NEWSPAPERS.

Emeka Nwa Okala:

 

You are ungrateful element, a pandering sycophant, a backstabber, a shameless man and a SABO. You compound arrogance with ignorance.

 

Your people SABOTAGED the Igbo’s in Biafra war and murdered abandoned Igbo babies during the war. It was your ungrateful people that betrayed Igbo’s during the war.

 

Ikwerre-Igbos are wicked and mean-spirited people. What is Ikwerre without Igbo’s? You are ungrateful scallywags. What are you going to respond to me about? A bon vine Mickey Mouse intellectual.

 

I warned you never to rattle me and get me in bad mood about the war. I don’t care about you debating Ikwerre-Igbo. You bite more than you can chew when you stated that I was forced into Boy Toy Army. I never told you that I was a Biafra Army but a Boys Company.

 

What do you and ALUKO want from Igbo’s? You fought and kill them. Their women, young and old were not spared by you and Aluko. You bombed and shell them.

 

Idiot like you want me to be happy when my dad lost all his wealth to a war caused by ALUKO father. Who are you?

 

I sat on the door steps of our home, watching my own father jumped inside the grave of his younger brother killed at the battle of Etche, asking the leading Biafra Army Officer Captain Ibenyi of Mbaise who brought his body home to put a bullet on his head because there was nothing left for him to live after the war.

 

Ibenyi cocked the gun pointed at him my dad went on “Onye isi gbam ofu mgbo ni ishi” [Officer just put a bullet a on my head]. Ibenyi ordered his boys to pull him out of the grave before he pointed the gun to sky and start discharging the Bullets as the final rite to my uncle and off to Etche.

 

Uzoma Agwunobi is an illiterate man and never caused the war like your dad and Aluko dad. You are suffering from mental dysentery. I am challenging you and ALUKO to pick a place in Nigeria to meet you two and let’s see who will run first among us.

 

My few lines to you below

 

Chukwuma nwa Agwunobi, I had wanted to ignore you permanently, considering that you were obviously at the peak of your insanity at the time of your worthless write-ups.

Nwa Okala, let us starts from here. I got my B.Sc degree in Mechanical Engineering and I have been working with to the level of Senior Engineer. I am British Licensed Engineer with many awards.

 

You told us that you have Master’s degree in Journalism/Mass Communication but you never told us where, what and when you used it.

 

Pray that you have a brother, uncle or cousin at the peak of his insanity that works as a Senior Engineer at Boeing Company, a Fortune 5 Company and number one Airplane marker of the world.

 

By the way, don’t you know that Engineers are scientifically minded? Engineers are mad people. You should ask yourself if normal people builds a huge objects that hangs in the air for more than 25 hours, float on the Sea for more 6 months, drag a half mile wagon on a Rail and run a Rubber for 4 days?

 

Engineers, Mathematicians, Chemists, Physicist and Medical Doctors are all scientifically minded professions. They are mad people.

 

Don’t you see how Oga Adeboye, Oga Ola, Abokinna Gummel, Abokinna Gworo Mustafa, ALUKO, NOWA, Ibanga, Okonkwo and Rotimi writes like madmen?

 

Didn’t you see how Awojobi, Chike Obi and Olunloyo were writing and making trouble like mad people during their time?

 

Did you notice how ALUKO fight everybody every day leaking their secrets with him and even telling  those with Economics and Law degree that he know the Law and Economics more than them? That is the ENGINEERING madness in him.

 

Did you read where Engineer Okonkwo telling us that he prefers the Porn Star profession to Engineering? That is the madness of ENGINEERING in him.

 

Oga Ola is a Medical Doctor but instead of practicing his profession where he will make more money, he starts selling houses and lands at Lagos and Abuja from Canada. That is the madness of Medical Doctor in him.

 

Did you notice the madness in Abokinna Gworo Gummel when he left his job as a Mathematician to Campaign for BUHARI? Abokinna Gworo Mustafa is a full time Contractor at Abuja. That is the madness of Mathematician and ENGINEERING in them.

 

Nwa Okala, are you stupid? Western World doesn’t need Journalist for development? They need Engineers, Mathematicians, Physicist, Chemist and Medical Doctors.

 

Yes, I am a mad man because the Engineering in me keep making me to think everyday how to produce cheap technology for poor idiots like you can afford.

 

Nwa Okala, I am ENGINEER abi you dey jealous about it? Did you see the photo copy I posted on redesigning of Ford Trucks?

 

Tell your slave Master Bolekaja Aluko to tell you the essentials of ENGINEERS. I will bet you that he will tell you dat “EMEKA, I like you wellu, wellu but this your P-8’s in Physics, Chemistry and Mathematics no go carry you go anywhere in Engineering Prelim class.

Except he wants to dash you AWUFU Grades of “A” like he normally does.

 

You are still out of your mind! But that will not negate my promise to do you a response though.

Nwa Okala, answer my damn questions with proven and verifiable documents and stop spinning and gnashing your teeth. I am insane and you are with sane mind that boasted and bragged that you don’t respond to or read people like Nwa Adiele and Wharfsnake that writes with fake names. Then turn around to read and respond to them each time they write.

 

I think you need a good comprehensive Medical Insurance to go for full annual Medical checkup that includes Brain MRI to check if something is wrong with your brain because you contradict yourself too much. Something is very, very wrong with your brains.

 

British Social Medicine will not be enough to cure you.

 

I have debunked every trash you wrote here.

 

Etta Eyo with Zik

 

Awo and UPN winning Bendel Election

 

OBJ not allowing Awo to rule

 

Ikwerres are around Ojukwu at Enugu when he declared Biafra.

 

Ikwerres fought for Igbo’s but can’t mention the officers.

 

Dan Agbese instead of Egbase you stated there.

 

You are a Journalist yet you can’t mention where you have worked as a Journalist in Nigeria or London. You hardly know or remembered about Amakiri-Diete Spiff saga and the rustication of Igbo’s from College of Technology, PH

 

Like you promised to respond to me, probably you have been asking your people to help you comb for answers to my question and you have finally got it from them. I am promising you now, that I Chukwuma Smart Agwunobi will use my own money to post it in 3-4 Nigerian Newspapers and let the debate start from Nigeria.

 

And you wouldn’t run your damn mouth again that it is only Igbo’s in Diaspora that is interested in this Biafra and IKWERRE-IGBO thing.

 

Now make sure your answers address my six questions below.

1]. Who changed the names of IKWERRE-IGBO Towns/Villages from RUMU to UMU?

 

2]. Please show us the Maps, Documents, Records and Files where it was written RUMU before Igbo’s changed them to UMU?

 

3].Who named these places RUMU before Igbo’s changed it to UMU?

 

4]. When did they change it?

 

5]. Was it before or after Amalgamation in 1914, Independence in 1960 or after the war in 1970?

 

6]. Why are “I” and “N” the only alphabets different from NKWERRE and IKWERRE? Both of them has the same meaning but the spellings are different with just “I” and “N”

 

NA ME AND YOU.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington USA

 

 

---

From: 'Chukwuemeka Okala' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] NWANNA OBI: BIKO STOP GIVING OUT ALL DIS KNOWLEDGE TO NWA OKALA & OKO BOI, BOI.

Chukwuma nwa Agwunobi,

I had wanted to ignore you permanently, considering that you were obviously at the peak of your insanity at the time of your worthless write-ups. But having observed you for sometime, I can see that you are improving. Good news, isn't it?

Against this backdrop, I have decided to whittle done on my primary decision - not to respond to you. I will respond to you compositely sometime soon. My only regret, is not only the pressure on time but total lack of it as we talk. Regardless, I will try to create the time, out of no time, to avail you with a response to all your disjointed essays that make no meanings to the right thinking man of the society. This is a promise!

If I may ask, where am I involved in Obi Nwakanma's response to Okoi? Obi Nwakanma responded to Okoi and you asked him not to respond to me, before delving into your usual load of garbage and verbiage. Can you see that you are still seriously mind challenged? You are still out of your mind! But that will not negate my promise to do you a response though.

Emeka Reuben Okala

London, UK

"Faith [Religion] and reason are not necessarily opposed. But when reason won't take you another step, faith keeps on going because it connects you to God."  

 

 

On Thursday, 14 July 2016, 1:23, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Nwanna, I hear you. It is just that whenever I think I've had enough, the teacher in me rises... De eje o!

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: 'Chukwuma S. Agwunobi' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 6:03 PM
To: IgboE...@yahoogroups.com; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; africanw...@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [africanworldforum] NWANNA OBI: BIKO STOP GIVING OUT ALL DIS KNOWLEDGE TO NWA OKALA & OKO BOI, BOI.

 

Nwanna Obi:

 

Please stop responding to Nwa Okala. He is no way in your league to argue with you. You are raising his ego as educated person. By now, you should know how he writes. He always engage in any hot topic where there are many people writing about it.

 

He copies or go along with what others writes as if he knows what is been debated. If Oko Boi stops writing now, you see him signing off that he is done with you. Or he is going to Night Virgil and Prayer Breakfast for the next two weeks when he know that the topic has die down.

 

For over 10 years now, Igbo’s have been debating him about IKWERE is/not Igbo. He will brag and brag his knowledge about the topic because ALUKO and some Yorubas are siding with him.

He doesn’t even know the angle Aluko is arguing from like a Mumu.

 

He gets confused of ALUKO saying that Igbo’s should leave him alone to mean that Aluko know for fact that IKWERRE is not Igbo. He didn’t even understand the Chart ALUKO posted about IKWERRE as IGBO.

 

Now, I am out to cure his ignorant, he disappears and said that he has no time for a madman like me because he doesn’t know the answers to my questions. This is the same guy who have been boasting and bragging all these years that he will take on any Igbo on Ikwerre debate.

 

His jives are full of contradictions. He told us that he only responds or he will respond to mails from people writing with their full names but he will not respond and answer my questions. Instead, he starts chasing Nwa Adiele and Wharfsnake he accused of using fake names.  

 

Nwa Okala is like a lazy man and a brawler who likes to fight when he sees people around to stop the fight or take some of the blows for him. He continues to attack Nwa Adiele and Wharfsnake because they are people been attacked by Josef Igietseme, Aluko, Oga Adeboye and AFIS.

 

I want to debate this scallywag about IKWERRE but he ran away like he always does. Let him bring ALUKO in and I will drop him and face ALUKO. He writes and wait for days for people to weighing from all angles with their views and he will select the ones best suits his ignorance to dwell on.

 

Please stop responding to him. You are giving free education worth of $350 per Credit.

 

You are distracting him from me. I want to squash him with documents from the IHEKWABA’s Archives and shut him up for good.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

---

From: "Rex Marinus rexma...@hotmail.com [IgboEvents]" <IgboE...@yahoogroups.com>
To: Rex Marinus <naija...@googlegroups.com>; Rex Marinus <naija...@googlegroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; Patrick Nwakuba <pnwa...@yahoo.com>; Rex Marinus <naija...@googlegroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 7:59 AM
Subject: [IgboEvents:Live] Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

"let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act."

-Okoi

Okoi, I'm still trying to wrap my head around your statement above because it is counterintuitive! The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy. Without that right, all talk about a democracy or a republic is sham and contrived. With due respect, Okoi, I should really not be the ne telling you all this. You are an officer of the courts, sworn to defend these rights.

You do not need an amendment of the constitution to establish the referendum. That right to a referendum is already established under the rights of suffrage, and can neither be questioned, nor evacuated. The question regarding whether to dismantle a federation is not a legal question, it is a democratic question. There was once a Senegambia federation. There was once an East African federation. There is nothing sacrosanct about national boundaries as the Cameroonian plebiscite proved in 1961, and the Midwest referendum proved in 1963. As Joe Atueyi has shown, it did not require any extraordinary constitutional measures, except that which was already inherent in the constitution to conduct these refrenda. It would only require the parliament to set down a committee, empower the national Population Commission to determine the demographic weight of the region, and hand over the details of the conduct of the referendum to the National Election Commission, which is an independent body, but which actually should be under either the Ministry of Home Affairs or the Ministry of Establishment, in other circumstances. We have examples everywhere else in the world to guide us. Nigeria does not exist in Mars.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

 

Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18 To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

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Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com

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Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19 To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

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Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

"There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi

Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.

Obi Nwakanma

---

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:44 AM

To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo

Subject: Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the Constitution.  

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Ayo Ojutalayo Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 06:32

To: Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com

Reply To: Ayo Ojutalayo Cc: Okoi; NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo Subject: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Patrick Nwakuba: One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

Ayo Ojutalayo: In the event that Biafra's existence happens through peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).

Patrick Nwakuba: If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

Ayo Ojutalayo:  If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his Constitutional Conference?

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Patrick Nwakuba <pnwa...@yahoo.com>

To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Okoi <okoi...@hotmail.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; ofume.phillip <ofume....@gmail.com>; Ayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; AfricanWorldForum <AfricanW...@yahoogroups.com>; jniang20 <jnia...@gmail.com>; USAAfricaDialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; ybraimoh <ybra...@nigeriansenate.org>; jikenya <jik...@nigeriansenate.org>; caroftp <car...@yahoo.com>; collyezebuihe <collye...@hotmail.com>; bolajumoke <bolaj...@nigeriansenate.org>; abi4truth <abi4...@yahoo.co.uk>; nidan-group <nidan...@googlegroups.com>; iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>; Christianandmuslimyoth <Christianan...@gmail.com>; odidere2001 <odide...@yahoo.com>; asimeon <asi...@nigeriansenate.org>; gakume <gak...@nigeriansenate.org>; bolajipundit011 <bolajip...@yahoo.com>; uali <ua...@nigeriansenate.org>; Ola <olaka...@aol.com>; awofeso <awo...@mwebafrica.com>; Vin <abuj...@gmail.com>; femmylawson <femmy...@yahoo.com>; drkcasagwara <drkcas...@shaw.ca>; ougbesia <ougb...@nigeriansenate.org>; gsekibo <gse...@nigeriansenate.org>; YanArewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; ainuwa <ain...@nigeriansenate.org>; bhenshaw <bhen...@nigeriansenate.org>; euzamere <euza...@nigeriansenate.org>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; abagudu <aba...@nigeriansenate.org>; igbonize <igbo...@yahoo.com>; salihumustafa <salihu...@gmail.com>; Ezeana <pach...@yahoo.com>; ibk <i...@usa.net>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; aude <au...@nigeriansenate.org>; atelba <ate...@nigeriansenate.org>; ozodiosuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>; davidwest62 <david...@yahoo.com>; ericayoola <erica...@aol.co.uk>; sakinyede <saki...@nigeriansenate.org>; IgboWorldForum <IgboWor...@yahoogroups.com>; info <in...@apc.com.ng>; africatoday80 <africa...@gmail.com>; ibanga.nh <iban...@gmail.com>; madeleke <made...@nigeriansenate.org>; edoregeneration <edorege...@yahoo.co.uk>; afis <odide...@gmail.com>; aeferakeya <aefer...@nigeriansenate.org>; sadeyemi <sade...@nigeriansenate.org>; abba2007 <abba...@gmail.com>; oohize <ooh...@nigeriansenate.org>; Peter <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; gngaji <gng...@nigeriansenate.org>; arise <ar...@nigeriansenate.org>; utafidan <utaf...@nigeriansenate.org>; ozodiosuji <ozodi...@yahoo.ca>; nigerianID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; aadeleke <aade...@nigeriansenate.org>; pcdbooks <pcdb...@yahoo.com>; agwu22 <agw...@yahoo.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; mmuhammed <mmuh...@nigeriansenate.org>; zekwueme <zekw...@yahoo.com>; rexmarinus1966 <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; vegba <ve...@nigeriansenate.org>; informative.media2016 <informativ...@yahoo.co.uk>; abrahammadu <abrah...@yahoo.com>; iida <ii...@nigeriansenate.org>; alawan <ala...@nigeriansenate.org>; nugbane <nug...@nigeriansenate.org>; bibrahim <bibr...@nigeriansenate.org>; kingsnna <king...@yahoo.com>; limptintinc <limpt...@gmail.com>; Naijanet <naij...@googlegroups.com>; "wharfsnake@yahoo" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; vin_modebelu <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; posakwe <pos...@nigeriansenate.org>; talknigeria <talkn...@yahoo.com>; alukome <alu...@gmail.com>; aayuba <aay...@nigeriansenate.org>; edo_global <edo_g...@yahoo.com>; info <in...@nigeriansenate.org>; glado <gl...@nigeriansenate.org>; ken.asagwara <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; msjoe21st <msjo...@aol.com>; aooduma <aoo...@nigeriansenate.org>; gsaraki <gsa...@nigeriansenate.org>; jmanager <jman...@nigeriansenate.org>; talknigeria <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; kcprinceasagwara <kcprince...@shaw.ca>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; news <ne...@frontpageafricaonline.com>; adeyemoadetokunbo <adeyemoa...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2016 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Cool Breeze;

Don't you think the more we keep responding to this Stupid Rueben Okalana's stupid rants, the more he thinks he is an opinion maker for the Ikwerre? One thing must be very clear to him and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

P. Nwakuba 

Having my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Okoi and Rueben Emekna Naijaremain.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 10, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

Emeka Okala:

Look at you. Just as we have Hausa Banza, we also have Igbo Banza and you're sure Igbo Banza. But please check your writing. It is TURN around not TOWN around. But honestly Igbo doesn't need the SS for any referendum. They can do it alone. But who are the SS anyway? If you look at the SS, Igbo make up the largest group in the SS. So those Igbo in the SS, should they be allowed to join their kiths and kins for the referendum or should they be forced to stay in your One Nigeria?

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

On Jul 10, 2016 8:42 AM, Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Rev. Okala, absolutely! The minorities of the defunct Eastern Region will never forget the discrimination and deprivation they suffered in the defunct Eastern Region! It got so bad that  late Professor Eyo Ita was forced to resign his position as the Leader of Government Business in the defunct Eastern Regional House of Assembly because he was an ethnic minority! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Ayo Ojutalayo Sent: Sunday, 10 July 2016 13:23

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Subject: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Sounds better as Igboexit or Igboremain! Before referendum, Igbo will need to get the Constitution amended making the referendum constitutional. First thing first!

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[Joe Attueyi]

Roteh

Stop being a flippant reader. It is beneath you. 

Here is what Nwakanma wrote:

Every elected legislator must be immune from prosecution, especially for opinions, or conducts, carried on within the legislative Chambers. The immunity is also usually Partial immunity, and can only be withdrawn by two methods: through the Appeals Court, and through parliament itself if the need arises to prosecute a legislator

.....The reason why legislative immunity is necessary is to buffer legislators from harassment while they are performing their legislative duties. To deny them that leaves the Parliament vulnerable and unprotected by itself. 

Joe

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[rotfash]

Vincent:

Though you have consistently drummed into our ears your attainment of legal training, the quality of your interventions, thus far, has not gone beyond pedestrian level.

It is so elementary that, irrespective of how a constitution came into being, it becomes legally binding on all of us after its enactment.

Are you by any stretch suggesting that our Constitution is subordinated to the African charter on human and people's rights?

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: Vin Otuonye
Date:15/07/2016 5:00 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: naija...@googlegroups.com,Stevek ,naijao...@yahoogroups.com,"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: "G.Dada" ,africanworld ,okonkwo...@googlegroups.com,nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com,igboe...@yahoogroups.com,igbowor...@yahoogroups.com,alu...@gmail.com,ikea...@yahoo.com,rot...@yahoo.com,NaijaNews ,"niger...@yahoogroups.com" ,"Raay...@yahoogroups.com" ,omo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Okoi:

You act as if the writers of Nigeria's Constitution were/are chosen by their people. Our present Constitution was foisted on us by the military. The military, it was, who picked the writers of that Constitution. Our Constitution is not the People's Constitution, so to speak. Nigeria military, with her experience in the Nigeria civil war are not in favor of Nigeria splitting. However, the right of self determination is contained in the African charter on Human and Peoples Rights. Nigeria is a signatory to this African Human and Peoples Right Charter. Please note our own National Assembly even enacted a law domesticating this African Charter into our body. It is part of our law.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

From: okoi...@hotmail.com

To: stev...@yahoo.com; NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com
CC: gd...@aol.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi:  REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 15:34:40 +0000








Stevek, absolutely! That is my position from the onset! You cannot read into the Constitution what is not intended by the Writers! If the Writers of the Constitution intended that any part of the country can secede they will have provided that in the Constitution!
 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: "Imperial imperi...@yahoo.com [NaijaObserver]" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>

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Cc: G.Dada <gd...@aol.com>; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com;

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Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 9:30 AM

Subject: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: {Yan Arewa} Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT










Joseph the pastorpreneur,


In Nigeria, referendum is a constitutional matter .


You need the support of the two thirds of NASS members and the president . In addition to two thirds of members in the two thirds of 36 state assemblies including the federal capital territory, Abuja, plus  with two thirds of the state governors .

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 2:17 PM, Joe Attueyi
topc...@yahoo.com [YanArewa] <YanA...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Dr Dada
An Act of the NASS first has to be passed by the 2 Houses of Parliament and signed by Mr  President ( or his veto overridden by 2/3rd members of NASS)


If 2/3 members get an Act in place --even for their pensions and/ or immunity then we Nigerians get the laws we deserve


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 2:04 PM, 'G.Dada' via OkonkwoNetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Pastor Joe,

If we allow referendum passed within the ambit of an Act of NASS to be binding as they want to have immunity for their Leaders and perpetual pension, we are now allowing some NASS Leaders to become Leaders for Life.

These people will be doing everything possible because of the immunity including but not limited to the killing of the opponents to make sure they win every election as witnessed in some parts of the country during last election.

Behaviors of Ayo Fasoye is another example of a politician using immunity for his reckless behaviors.

We should remove immunity for the Governors and Deputy Governors too in Nigeria.

Dada







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To: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 6:59 am
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT




Bro Olu
That is a deep question you ask.


1. Acts of NASS are laws of the land. A referendum passed within the ambit of an Act of NASS should be binding


2. Even where legally a referendum result is advisory-- it would still be politically binding. That is why PM May of Britain, even though a Remainer says 'Brexit is Brexit'.  Though the Brexit vote was advisory
it has become binding--because the will of the people expressed democratically is the highest law of the land!


3. I think we also must pay attention to UN Charter on self determination to which Nigeria freely subscribed. I am no expert in international law but it seems to legally bind Nigeria to the right of self determination
by any group of people so desirous of such


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 11:47 AM, 'Olu Ojedokun' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Pastor Joe,



Thanks for yours. So in simple terms what would be required to make such a referendum binding and not simply advisory?


With Regards


Olu/





Visit my blog:

http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/











-----Original Message-----
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To: naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 6:38 am
Subject: Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT




The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated
legislation does not count as inferior. 


Bro Olu,
Thanks for redirecting this debate to the original question--even though you are wrong in its definition


The original question was:


1. Do we need a constitutional amendment BEFORE we can conduct a referendum for any part of Nigeria to democratically decide to secede or not


2. Obi's position is NO. The electoral act which is an act of the NA ,and not inconsistent with the constitution , already provides a basis for holding such a referendum without a need to amend the constitution


3. My view is that past practice --- the Midwest Referendum ( and the South Cameroun plebiscite another) -- is proof that when agitation and political environment align all you need is a bill of NA showing the area
and threshold for such a referendum NOT a constitutional amendment


These are the arguments that got subsumed in 'inferiority of laws', grundnorm ' etc.


Though I have followed your arguments on this trail I am not sure I have seen your answer to the original question


Regardless of whether or not the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria
do we need a constitutional amendment before we can hold a referendum in Nigeria?




Joe
Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 4:39 AM, 'Olu Ojedokun' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Mr Rex,


The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated legislation does not count as inferior.
 


The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was at par or even above the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria and
therefore could override it. You are unable to grasp that when any law is inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution it is null, void and certainly of no effect.  It is that simple.


You should at least inject a bit of honesty into this discourse, sometimes you make a call and fall short, for no man is capable of knowing all. But to seek to twist and turn and confuse issues does you very little in terms of credit.


With Regards


Olu/





Visit my blog:

http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/











-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>

To: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>;
africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>;
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ALUKO Mobolaji <alu...@gmail.com>; Agbor Ike <ikea...@yahoo.com>; rotfash <rot...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 14, 2016 11:57 pm
Subject: Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT






My brother Vin,
Ndewo. Yes, you're right about the hierarchies, and yes, Bolaji Aluko referred to it also, and covered some rather good grounds.  But as I'd say again, the question is not about the "supremacy" of the constitution but about the "inferiority" of the laws
that flow from the constitution. Two fundamentally different questions which is now being conflated. Frankly, I think this matter is self-evident, but it has run its course. We are now in the "wanka" phase, when "Gbanjo" Lawyers and "Project Managers" who
can't think or write, or even piss straight, and who really pretend to know what they issues are all about though they can hardly comprehend the language, start to call you names because they have nothing really to say. You see, you must be charitable: when
you beat up a self-inflated man and press his mouth to the grass, and all he can do is run to a distance as say, "wanka!" you should call off the fight. Further discussion on this matter will be an abuse of intellect, and I urge, bro, draw the curtain on this.
Let them abuse you all they want. But I salute.
Obi Nwakanma





From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM
To: Rex Marinus;

naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld;
okonkwo...@googlegroups.com;
nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; Igbo Events;

igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO Mobolaji; Agbor Ike;
rot...@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT




Obi Nwana:

Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws yesterday where I stated
inter alia that the Constitution is superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...

But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:

1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law

9. Secondary authorities.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

From:
rexma...@hotmail.com
To:
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africanw...@googlegroups.com;
okonkwo...@googlegroups.com;
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africanw...@googlegroups.com;
okoi...@hotmail.com;
alu...@gmail.com;
ikea...@yahoo.com;

rot...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 16:35:19 +0000


"Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act
because it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria"
-Vin Otuonye


Vin Nwanna,
On the contrary, I did say that suffrage (the right to vote) already exists and is covered in the constitution, and to put it in a different way, amplified in the Electoral Act whose foundation is the constitution. I did say that the constitution already provides
for the referendum - the right of citizens to vote directly on an issue in at least one specific instance, the recall process, and therefore we would not re-invent the wheel on the matter of whether a referendum can be called on any subject that has to do
with the rights of the citizen already guaranteed by the constitution. We gave the example of the precedents in the Cameroon plebiscite of 1961, and the referendum creating the Midwest region in 1963. The constitution already empowers the process, and does
not need to spell out the petition for separation/secession in the constitution as the subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of
stare decisis et quieta non movere.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws. But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as you have rightly observed.
It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes,
or case laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media, but which has been squelched
by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.
Obi Nwakanma

From:

naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>

Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM
To:

naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld;
okonkwo...@googlegroups.com;

nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT



Iguade:

My mobile phone reply takes a day or two to post. I don't know why. But below is close to what I replied to yesterday.

I told you to always support or defend the RIGHT thing and don't fixate yourself with WHO wrote what. If you fixate yourself with the person and not the idea, you lose sight because you'll not always see the good stuff the person you dislike contribute to this
forum. If Obi Nwakanma present a brilliant argument, as he often does, support it instead of fixating with Obi the person you may not like.


But to your point below, I don't recall reading Obi Nwakanma say that the electoral act is superior to the Constitution. All I read him state is that the electoral act and the Constitution are intertwined. It is the Constitution that gives birth to the electoral
act. If the electoral act runs afoul of the Constitution, it will be declared illegal, null and void. Because the electoral act has not been declared illegal, I posit it is constitutional.

Where I differ with Obi Nwakanma is, if I understand him correctly, where he posits that voting is not in the Constitution. It is because of this voting which he did not see in the Constitution that gives rise to the discussion about the electoral act because
it is in the electoral act that he saw voting. If I remember correctly, he posits that when the electoral act provides for voting, Nigerians utilizing this power of vote can also use it to seek a referendum on whether or not to split Nigeria.

The Constitution will not list everything we'll want to be in the document but if we pay close attention, implicitly, those things are covered. Voting may not be present in the Constitution, however I believe voting is implicitly  stated in that document.

The Constitution list election of offices and went further to list the offices. The offices of the President, Vice President, Senators, Federal House Members, Governors, Deputy Governors and State House members are won by election not selection. And the election
and voting for these offices are by the citizens. Thus, the fact that the Constitution did not implicitly state voting, that on itself does not mean voting is not in the Constitution. How do we elect the offices I enumerated if not by voting?

Please note my use of the capital letter C with regard the Constitution. I recall how my constitutional law professor drummed it in our ears that the Constitution is a living document. We should treat it with respect.

Chris Nwachukwu, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this statement
'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'. The phrase these emergency constitutional lawyers is plural.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 19:32:20 -0400
From:
naija...@googlegroups.com

To:

naija...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT



Dear Vin,

I don't think Okoi was referring to me; he was referring to the previous writer.

Chris Chima Nwachukwu


-----Original Message-----
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>

To: naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>;
okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>;

Talk Nigeria <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; Esan Community <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2016 7:10 pm
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT




Vin,


Why are you not defending Obi's statement that electoral laws are superior to the Constitution, Hehehehe!


Rastafarian dude, your bosom buddy is at it again, smoking ganja and talking trash to excercise is fucked up mind from marijuana. Rastafarian dude, please get real - there is no way a law, or ANY law from
NASS is superior to the Constitution. FULL STOP, period!!!


Obi, please stop your nonsense. People like Vin already support your bullshit, quit while ahead. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:




Okoi:

Chris Chima Nwachukwu is a lawyer. I know him. He is based here in Atlanta. I don't understand your quip about ignorance and emergency constitutional lawyers. Besides, Chris Nwachukwu made it clear that the Constitution of Nigeria is Supreme to the Electoral
Act. So I don't understand your anger. But please note your statement should be 'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies of constitutional jurisprudence'.

But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the same applies to Nigeria:

1. US Constitution

2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules

3. Federal administrative agency rules

4. Federal Common law cases

5. State Constitutions

6. State Statues and court rules

7. State agency rules

8. State Common law case law

9. Secondary authorities.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye





From:
okoi...@hotmail.com
To:
naija...@googlegroups.com;
naija...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:46:39 +0000

Ignorance is a bad thing! All these emergency constitutional lawyers who doesn't know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies ‎ of constitutional jurisprudence come here to talk poppy cock!

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.





From: cncnwachukwu via NaijaEvent
Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2016 19:35
To: naija...@googlegroups.com
Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT












Dear Mazi Nwakuba:

Constitution of Nigeria is supreme to the Electoral Act. If the electoral Act is in conflict with the constitution, the constitution shall prevail.

Chris Chima Nwachukwu

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Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2016 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT




The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under
the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy.- Obi Nwakanma.


The above from Dr. Obi Nwakanma is the truth and nothing but the truth. For an Officer of the Court to state in the World Wide Web that an electoral law of a nation is inferior to the constitution
of that nation makes you wonder what law school some of these so-called learned gentlemen attended. Folks what happened to the basic Law 101 or what we should called the Principles of Law?
My question to Okoi is this could the electoral laws be legally binding if the act creating the electoral law was not based in the the constitution of the nation. No wonder Nigeria has so many
engineers, yet we still rely on the German MCC and Julius Bergers for our road constructions. Too many Ph.Ds that cannot write a simple memo and too many lawyers that cannot draft common CFOs and simply powers of attorney for a simple purchase. Tufiakwa.
P. Nwakuba
Still contemplating on what to do with my Alukolistic evil belly laughs for Nigeria. No apologies.

On Jul 13, 2016, at 10:59 AM, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote:





"let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including
the Electoral Act."
-Okoi


Okoi, I'm still trying to wrap my head around your statement above because it is counterintuitive! The Electoral Act cannot be INFERIOR to the constitution because it is itself primarily rooted in the constitution, and therefore it is constitutional! All laws
derive from the written constitution of the land. All Acts of Parliament passed under the regulation of the constitution are the laws of the land, and one cannot be talking of which one is "inferior" or "superior." The right to vote is guaranteed under the
constitution, and it is the foundation of our democracy. Without that right, all talk about a democracy or a republic is sham and contrived. With due respect, Okoi, I should really not be the ne telling you all this. You are an officer of the courts, sworn
to defend these rights.


You do not need an amendment of the constitution to establish the referendum. That right to a referendum is already established under the rights of suffrage, and can neither be questioned, nor evacuated. The question regarding whether to dismantle a federation
is not a legal question, it is a democratic question. There was once a Senegambia federation. There was once an East African federation. There is nothing sacrosanct about national boundaries as the Cameroonian plebiscite proved in 1961, and the Midwest referendum
proved in 1963. As Joe Atueyi has shown, it did not require any extraordinary constitutional measures, except that which was already inherent in the constitution to conduct these refrenda. It would only require the parliament to set down a committee, empower
the national Population Commission to determine the demographic weight of the region, and hand over the details of the conduct of the referendum to the National Election Commission, which is an independent body, but which actually should be under either the
Ministry of Home Affairs or the Ministry of Establishment, in other circumstances. We have examples everywhere else in the world to guide us. Nigeria does not exist in Mars.
Obi Nwakanma

From:

naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
To: Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus;

africanw...@googlegroups.com

Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali;
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news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT



Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of
the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral

Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law

otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution.


Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.





From: Rex Marinus
Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18
To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus;
mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com
Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info;
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naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT










Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into
the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the
question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
Obi Nwakanma

From:

africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba;

mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info;
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naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)



Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution

do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian
Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic!


Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.





From: Rex Marinus
Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19
To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba;
mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com
Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume;
bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum;
info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016;
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naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum

Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)










"There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi


Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need
a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the
Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.
Obi Nwakanma

From:

naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:44 AM

To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba;

[rotfash]

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: rotfash
Date:15/07/2016 4:53 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: Rex Marinus ,"G.Dada" ,Joe Attueyi
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com,naija...@googlegroups.com,vincent...@msn.com,nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com,igboe...@yahoogroups.com,igbowor...@yahoogroups.com,okoi...@hotmail.com,alu...@gmail.com,ikea...@yahoo.com,naijao...@yahoogroups.com,naijap...@yahoogroups.com,niger...@yahoogroups.com,raay...@yahoogroups.com,yana...@yahoogroups.com,omo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Dear Obi Nwakanma,

Again,  let me tackle you on some of the wild swings contained in yours.

First, are you, by any stretch, suggesting that this immunity you are advocating for the Nigerian legislators should go beyond the general immunity as regards opinions, conduct, etc expressed in the hallowed chambers and, specifically, giving them immunity outside the precincts of the Parliament?

Second, if the foregoing question is answered affirmatively, can you point at one clime, in the entire democratic world, where your imagined scenario subsists?

When you answer those two posers, I need to add that you are obviously out of tune with realities in the Nigeria polity. Citizens are speaking out loudly to demand that the parliamentary immunity enjoyed by legislators within the hallowed chambers should foreclose any criminality committed therein, given the penchant of the lawmakers for resorting to unimaginable superfluity of indecencies? The other day, a legislator turned the mace into a destructive weapon for clobbering every moving being in sight. If he committed murder in that hallowed chambers, you want him to be free from prosecution?

Again, if senator Dino Melaye had carried out his threat of beating up a female senator and had forced himself on her in the hallowed chambers, he should also be free from prosecution?

Again, your suggestion revealed some vacuity of mind and utter thoughtlessness. Before resorting to needless anger, let me explain. Whilst the executive offices are term-barred, that is, the maximum duration that the occupier of any executive position can remain in office; the legislative offices are not term-barred. In other words, a legislator can be elected to the parliament as many times as his age and health can carry him. In fact, in established climes, acuity of the parliamentary culture is determined by the number for a legislator. 

You need understand that, in Nigeria, the Senate has virtually become a retirement home for former governors. Do you now suggest that if a Fayose, 

with culpability in some criminal activities, should virtually become free from prosecution all his because he has become a senator after shedding off gubernatorial toga?

Now you see what I mean that,scratching beyond the surface of your suggestion would reveal its worthlessness for the Nigerian situation?!

I salute you Sir.

[rotimi fashakin]

Nebu, my brother!

Yours was refreshingly different.

I salute you.

 

Rotimi Fashakin

---

From: Nebukadineze Adiele <nebuka...@aol.com>
To: naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 5:04 PM
Subject: To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Pastor Joe,

I have held and expressed the position that the Nigerian constitution leaves no room for secession and that for any break up of Nigeria to be legal, the constitution must first be amended to authorize that -- I have held this position for as long as the constitution has been operational. The current debate is as bizarre to me as the previous one, which claimed that the legislature, not the executive, enforces laws (as in corruption fights). My only solace over these two views is that they were championed by an intellectual colossus, Obi Nwakanma.

I believe that Dr. Nwakanma was more tasking of Nigerians to reevaluate their present constitution than holding these two views as constitutionally sound outside of academic inquiry. On account of this belief, I practically ignored this debate. On the questions you posed, here is a brief answer that should help clarify certain things:

(i) The Supremacy of the constitution is doubtless, so laws or Acts of the legislature must be consistent with or subordinate to its dictates -- no laws made by the legislature can override it, superintend it, or even measure dick with it. That supremacy of the constitution is the first statement made in the constitution. 

(ii) The second statement made by the constitution is the indivisibility of Nigeria as follows: "Nigeria is one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign state to be known by the name of the Federal Republic of Nigeria" (see chapter 1, General Provisions, Part 1 of the Nigerian constitution).

With points (i and ii) above, there is no way that any Act of legislation, up to a referendum, can lead to any legal breaking up of Nigeria; where the constitution speaks about suffrage, it is specific on what that suffrage is all about; electoral laws can never override the constitution's position on indivisibility and indissolubility of Nigeria. 

Without a doubt, the Nigerian constitution is a fraud that the political leaders of Nigeria allowed to become binding upon all of us by allowing it to become effective in the first place. The constitution began with this lie: 

• We the people of the Federal Republic of Nigeria
  
• Having firmly and solemnly resolve [sic], to live in unity and harmony as one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign nation under God, dedicated to the promotion of inter-African solidarity, world peace, international co-operation and understanding
  
• And to provide for a Constitution for the purpose of promoting the good government and welfare of all persons in our country, on the principles of freedom, equality and justice, and for the purpose of consolidating the unity of our people
  
• Do hereby make, enact and give to ourselves the following Constitution:-  
  

The above preamble is a lie that should have prevented the constitution from becoming operational. Had the political leaders of that era (1993 through 1999) gone to court, the courts would have invalidated this constitution based on that falsehood -- the courts cannot invalidate the constitution today because they became subordinate to it once it became operational in May 1999. The Yoroba political leaders of that era, as did their forebears of 1967, allowed the temporary solace of letting a Yoroba become president in 1999 blind them to the bigger picture of what they had campaigned about since 1979. In 2015, they did similarly by allowing the appointing of Osibanjo as VP, a position wherein he is currently treated as a houseboy, to blind them to what the majority of Yorobas yearn for -- the restructuring of Nigeria. As typical, the Yoroba intelligentsia is comfortable with president Buhari's position that Nigeria's unity is not subject to negotiation -- Osibanjo is championing that now. 

Whenever Yoroba and Awusa gang up politically, Nigeria degrades politically and economically and all of us suffer. This time around, their inglorious ganging up is being resisted by the Eastern minorities too and were the Middle Belt still alive politically, they would join to resist this unprogressive political system that is shaping up through APC. 

The bottom-line, pastor Joe, Nigeria can never legally divide peacefully for as long as this constitution is not amended to make a provision for dissolution. You and Nwakanma's ideas may be brilliant but we must abide by what binds us -- the constitution which forbids any dissolution of Nigeria. No amount of referendum can override the constitution's second statement that Nigeria is indissoluble.  

On your references to the creation of the Mid-West Region, you fail to recognize that the 1960 constitution made allowance for that process as follows:

• (3) Alterations to section 3 of this Constitution [which declares the constituent parts of Nigeria with respect to Regions] for the purpose of establishing new Regions out of other territories shall be effected only in accordance with the following procedure-
  
• (a) a proposal for the alteration shall be submitted to each House of Parliament and, if that proposal is approved by a resolution of each of those Houses supported by the votes of at least two-thirds of all the members of that House, the proposal shall then be submitted to the legislative houses of all the Regions; and

• (b) if the proposal is approved-
  

• (i) by a resolution of each legislative house of a majority of all the Regions; or
  
• (ii) by a resolution of each legislative house of at least two Regions, including any Region comprising any part of Nigeria that would be transferred to the new Region under the proposal, Parliament may provide for the alteration. (see Chapter 1 of the 1960 Constitution of Nigeria).    

The above provision is not the equivalent of holding a referendum on breaking up Nigeria, it is the equivalent of today constitution's recommendation on creation of more states. The leaders of Nigeria did not act outside of the constitution in creating the Mid-West Region, contrary to your speculation, and South Cameroon was never a part of Nigeria, even though it was administered through Nigeria for the UN, so its exit is not comparable to sections of Nigeria breaking away. Nigeria can only break up through war or wars, not by peaceful means. That was why I told you guys that you were wasting your time with Goodluck Jonathan's deceptive conference on the restructuring of Nigeria. 

Ndewo.

PS: By the way, the UN resolution that you mentioned, and which lots of people cite out of ignorance, is not a mandate for anyone who wants to break his country to invoke. The UN was very clear that the resolution applies to "indigenous peoples", who we don't have in Nigeria, to the best of my knowledge (Ombaste and Kukuruku who avoid civilization and contact with other humans may qualify as indigenous people).     

Nebukadineze Adiele
Organized religion sired irrationality.

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
To: naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; vincentotuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianworldforum <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; okoiobla <okoi...@hotmail.com>; alukome <alu...@gmail.com>; ikeagbor <ikea...@yahoo.com>; rotfash <rot...@yahoo.com>; naijaobserver <naijao...@yahoogroups.com>; naijapolitics <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; nigerianID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; raayiriga <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; yanarewa <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 8:40 am
Subj

Bro Olu

1. My understanding from all I have read so far is that there is no specific reference to 'referendum for secession ' in the constitution. 

2. Which was the basis of my first intervention with Okoi. He said that given (1) we would require a constitutional amendment to provide a clause for 'referendum for secession ". I disagreed with that position. As in 1963 an ACT of parliament is enough legal basis to hold a referendum----That is if the UN charter on self determination is not enough. 

3. Given (1) above it is not practically possible for the new referendum Act to be "..inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution "


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18 To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
Obi Nwakanma

---

From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19 To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

"There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi


Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.
Obi Nwakanma

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi 

Subject: Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the Constitution.  

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

Subject: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Patrick Nwakuba: One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

Ayo Ojutalayo: In the event that Biafra's existence happens through peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).

Patrick Nwakuba: If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

Ayo Ojutalayo:  If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his Constitutional Conference?

Ayo Ojutalayo

[Olu Ojedokun]

Cool Breeze,

It might be helpful for us to indicate clearly what a preamble is: "...a preliminary or preparatory statement; an introduction or in Law, the introductory part of a statute or deed, stating its purpose, aims, and justification".

With Regards

Olu/

Visit my blog: http://promiseofmygeneration.blogspot.co.uk/

-----Original Message-----
From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com>; naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: talknigeria <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianworldforum <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; okoiobla <okoi...@hotmail.com>; alukome <alu...@gmail.com>; ikeagbor <ikea...@yahoo.com>; rotfash <rot...@yahoo.com>; naijaobserver <naijao...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; niger...@yahoogroups.com <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Raay...@yahoogroups.com <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; yanarewa <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 5:41 pm
Subject: RE: To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Joe:
 
Indivisibility of Nigeria is contained in the Preamble of Nigeria Constitution not in the body of the document. My question to you is, is a preamble part of the Constitution?
 
I will provide an answer shortly because even the American Supreme Court have conflicting ruling on the question.
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

 

---

Subject: Re: To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
From: topc...@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 17:30:13 +0100
CC: talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com
To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Nebu

Thank you very much. 

This is the best analysis I have read that a section of Nigeria cannot secede peacefully through democratic means. I am now convinced that that is the situation.

 It should worry reasonable people. If there had been no peaceful democratic way to address the demands of a large but minority section of the Scottish population to secede from Britain there would be no peace in Britain .

Btw for my education: Does Fraud, especially constitutional fraud, have a statute of limitation?

I ask because the constitution of Nigeria is a fraud at many levels masquerading as law:

We the people....resolve to live as one indissoluble nation.....

When? Where? How?

Joe
Sent from my iPhone

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Dear Adey,

If we assume, as we may, that Nebu was referring to 

the Yoruba where he wrote Yoroba, I like to quickly 

ignore the insult for now and address what seems to 

be a deliberate memory lapse.

1. It was not the Yoruba leaders or the Yoruba people

that supported Gen Obasanjo's candidacy or his election 

in 1999. Obasanjo lost everywhere in the SW, 

including his own ward in Abeokuta.

Where was Nebu?

2.  The candidate that the Yoruba supported, Chief 

Olu Falae, challenged in court the malpractices

associated with that election, and with support of our

leadership.

Where was Nebu?

3. On the very day that Obasanjo was sworn in 

in 1999, the Voice of America broadcast to the world 

a live interview of me and another Yoruba, in which I 

raised issues about the fraud in the preamble to the 

1999 constitution, the which was not even available 

until after the election. Questions then rolled in from 

listeners in Nigeria and Togo. 

 

I grant that Nebu might not have been listening to VOA 

that day, but he still would have access to transcripts of 

that broadcast.

I do not ordinarily object to any rivalries among the

leaders and dealers of the nationalities inside Nigeria.

Such is to be expected. I am however always disturbed 

when a caliber of forumites becomes careless with the 

facts. Such a behavior tends to deem hope for intelligent 

resolutions of the challenges that we all confront.

Cheers,

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 15, 2016, at 1:09 PM, Adey ade...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hello Mazi Nebu,

Excellent rejoinder (as usual).... In parts, you stated that "The above preamble is a lie that should have prevented the constitution from becoming operational. Had the political leaders of that era (1993 through 1999) 

gone to court, the courts would have invalidated this constitution based on that falsehood -- the 

courts cannot invalidate the constitution today because they became subordinate to it once it 

became operational in May 1999. The Yoroba political leaders of that era, as did their forebears 

of 1967, allowed the temporary solace of letting a Yoroba become president in 1999 blind them to 

the bigger picture of what they had campaigned about since 1979."

Is this an attempt to rewrite our history...?

For, the record will certainly show that the Yoruba political leaders lobbied heavily for SNC (Sovereign National Conference) prior to the 1999 

election. Indeed, this was one of the most important stance - political or otherwise - I felt the SW had taken during the past several decades. As

for me who rarely concur with the political leaders, I believed that the 1999 Constitution should not be allowed to stand without a challenge by 

the populace. At the time, I believed that it was a fight that had to be fought. And I arrived at this conclusion after the late Gani Fawehinmi and 

other legal experts pointed at the "dangerous precedent" the fraudulent Constitution was bound to cause for the future generations.

Mazi Nebu, I was shocked at how quickly the fight for SNC was turned into a "Yoruba affair".... There are some facts you cannot simply wave 

or wish away.

Happy Friday!!

Adey

---

From: 'Nebukadineze Adiele' via naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>
To: naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com; okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com; rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; raay...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 9:04 AM
Subject: [Naijaintellects] To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
To: naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; vincentotuonye <vincent...@msn.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianworldforum <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; igboevents <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; okoiobla <okoi...@hotmail.com>; alukome <alu...@gmail.com>; ikeagbor <ikea...@yahoo.com>; rotfash <rot...@yahoo.com>; naijaobserver <naijao...@yahoogroups.com>; naijapolitics <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; nigerianID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; raayiriga <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; yanarewa <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 8:40 am
Subj

Bro Olu

1. My understanding from all I have read so far is that there is no specific reference to 'referendum for secession ' in the constitution. 

2. Which was the basis of my first intervention with Okoi. He said that given (1) we would require a constitutional amendment to provide a clause for 'referendum for secession ". I disagreed with that position. As in 1963 an ACT of parliament is enough legal basis to hold a referendum----That is if the UN charter on self determination is not enough. 

3. Given (1) above it is not practically possible for the new referendum Act to be "..inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution "


Joe

Sent from my iPhone

Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act. In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will amount to a breach of the Constitution. 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18 To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY: throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for that petition to pass as a vote.
Obi Nwakanma

---

From: africanw...@googlegroups.com <africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
To: Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip; AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp; collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade; Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011; uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo; YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize; salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji; davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80; ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007; oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke; pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba; informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim; kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu; posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado; ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria; kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events; IgboWorldForum
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

 

Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the Supreme Court is academic! 

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: Rex Marinus Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19 To: Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com Reply To: naija...@googlegroups.com

Events; IgboWorldForum Subject: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

"There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country!-Okoi


Okoi, I'm really quite surprised at you these days. What sort of claim is this? Is there a constitutional guarantee for the right to vote already existing in the  Nigerian constitution? If such a provision exits, conducting a referendum does not need a constitutional amendment, because it is already covered by suffrage. A petition may be submitted to the National Assembly by those seeking a referendum, and all it requires is a resolution of the National Assembly, and failing which, a declaration of the Supreme Court, on an issue already covered in the bill of rights and by international law. You need really to step up your game, man, as a neutral counsellor to the president.
Obi Nwakanma

From: naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi 

Subject: Re: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Wishful thing! There is no provision in the Nigerian Constitution for the conduct of a referendum to determine the balkanisation of the country! So those who demanding for a referendum for the partition of the country   are living in a fool paradise! The procedure for amending the Constitution is so cumbersome and difficult that no portion or section can successfully  demand  ‎for amending of the Constitution without the support of other component part of the country . Even if a law is passing by the National Assembly legalizing referendum it still need an amendment of the Constitution.  

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

Subject: Patrick Nwakuba: Re: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)

Patrick Nwakuba: One thing must be very clear to him [Emeka Okala] and Okoi or whatever his name, is this, that Biafra land runs all the way to "Bight of Biafra" and there's nothing and I mean nothing they can do about it. Period. 

Ayo Ojutalayo: In the event that Biafra's existence happens through peaceful means, Nigeria as a country will not allow Biafra to extend beyond today's South East. Nigerians (Igbo and non-Igbo) that wish to be Biafrans should be free to move to and live in Biafra (today's SE).

Patrick Nwakuba: If they love Nigeria's survival, let them advise Buhari to start the restructuring of Nigeria by implementing the recommendations of the President Jonathan's constitutional conference that ended less than two years ago. And there they have it. No apologies.

Ayo Ojutalayo:  If you love restructuring of Nigeria so much, why did you not advise President Jonathan to implement the recommendation of his Constitutional Conference?

Ayo Ojutalayo

Bro Olu

1. My understanding from all I have read so far is that there is no specific reference to 'referendum for secession ' in the constitution. 

2. Which was the basis of my first intervention with Okoi. He said that given (1) we would require a constitutional amendment to provide a clause for 'referendum for secession ". I disagreed with that position. As in 1963 an ACT of parliament is enough legal basis to hold a referendum----That is if the UN charter on self determination is not enough. 

3. Given (1) above it is not practically possible for the new referendum Act to be "..inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution "


Joe
Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Jul 2016, at 1:09 PM, employlawone via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Rotimi Fashakin:

Yes, refereshingly different indeed, in repeating several points that I have written, where in fact we concur,  except for what I did not read, and which should be horrifying rabid dishonesty and hateful ethnicism to you, a Nigerian of Yoruba extraction:

QUOTE

 The Yoroba political leaders of that era, as did their forebears of 1967, allowed the temporary solace of letting a Yoroba become president in 1999 blind them to the bigger picture of what they had campaigned about since 1979. In 2015, they did similarly by allowing the appointing of Osibanjo as VP, a position wherein he is currently treated as a houseboy, to blind them to what the majority of Yorobas yearn for -- the restructuring of Nigeria. As typical, the Yoroba intelligentsia is comfortable with president Buhari's position that Nigeria's unity is not subject to negotiation -- Osibanjo is championing that now. 

Whenever Yoroba and Awusa gang up politically, Nigeria degrades politically and economically and all of us suffer. This time around, their inglorious ganging up is being resisted by the Eastern minorities too and were the Middle Belt still alive politically, they would join to resist this unprogressive political system that is shaping up through APC. 

UNQUOTE

Or you did not read that bit, Rotimi?

Yes, refereshingly different indeed.....

I shake my head at you - violently.

Bolaji Aluko

Still shaking it

[rotimi fashakin]

Thank you. Prof.

I read the meat and left out the toxic nonsense.

It was quite refreshing reading someone of Igbo extraction differing sharply from Obi Nwakanma's position on a subject matter. You know Obi has been ennobled to the pedestal of an infallible intellectual by the coterie of obsequious lackeys hereabout.

I have come to live with the erroneous thrust of our oriental brothers in alluding to the Yoruba as the source of their predicament within the Nigerian state. The dishonesty that has, all along, formed the premise of the narrative of the civil war is still something very discomforting.

Nonetheless, it was good to 'waka pass' extraneous issues to the core issue discussed.

Do you hear me now?

 

Rotimi Fashakin

---

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: rotimi fashakin <rot...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Nebukadineze Adiele <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; "talkn...@yahoogroups.com" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "vincent...@msn.com" <vincent...@msn.com>; "okonkwo...@googlegroups.com" <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "igboe...@yahoogroups.com" <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; "igbowor...@yahoogroups.com" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; "okoi...@hotmail.com" <okoi...@hotmail.com>; "ikea...@yahoo.com" <ikea...@yahoo.com>; "naijao...@yahoogroups.com" <naijao...@yahoogroups.com>; "naijap...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "raay...@yahoogroups.com" <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "yana...@yahoogroups.com" <yana...@yahoogroups.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 7:12 PM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

--

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[olaka...@aol.com]

Bolaji:

Rotimi's positive reaction to Nebu's essay
is just as rational as the idea of a
student managing to score an A on an academic paper
even if he scores an F in a few minor sections
of the same paper. It all depends on the ranking system
and the relative weights the Professor accords to different
segments/ideas in the same paper as compared to the
other students in the class and the Professor's knowledge base
and personal biases.

A score of 90 or 95%% merits an A just as a score of 99%
or 100%.

Nebu's otherwise intelligent analysis was unfortunately marred
by his core anti-Yoruba and anti-northern Nigerian
personality streak that is openly displayed in the referenced
paragraph.

We should try to see through and understand such
flaws!

Bye,

Ola

---- Original Message ----
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: rotimi fashakin <rot...@yahoo.com>

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Rotimi Fashakin:

Although I read you and your attempt to overlook the rabidly racist and hateful toxicity that accompanies every one of the ghost Nebukadineze's pieces, there is also another underlying assigned narrative of cowardice among Nebu and his hateful ilk which we must NEVER allow to pass.  Our large-heartedness and ability to separate the wheat from the chaff is often mistaken for obsequious cowardice by his ilk, and we must ALWAYS push back on that.

Nothing stops you from agreeing with what you will agree with, and then calling him up on his hateful rhetoric, even if it is just one line.

Please be properly guided on that score in the future.

Bolaji Aluko

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/614109825.3942959.1468607534601.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Hassan Olayiwola]

The language of the law simply doesn't mean what it says. The obscenity of this is that the public is going to be repulsed.

 

Hassan Olayiwola

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/VI1PR0301MB20795B487F000EB601C94493CD330%40VI1PR0301MB2079.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com.

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Ola Kassim:

You know that I have always considered you my rather naive friend when it comes to things Nigerian.

As a  medical doctor, you should know that a small tumor, left untreated or unremoved, can be deadly.  Nebukadineze - and Obi Nwakanma, I might add, just to name a couple of them - write to an impressionable ilk who will just ignore their brilliance and cotton on to the toxic portions of their write-ups.

As I just wrote to Rotimi Fashakin, you too should be properly guided.  Your large-heartedness will be mistaken by Nebukadineze and his ilk for snivelling cowardice.  I have dealt with them for decades now, and I do not give them a quarter.   That is why my names runs them ragged, and they have nightmares. Where I agree with them on an issue, I will state it, but right there slam them hard on their thick heads where their red slips of hatred and bigotry show from under their Atilogwu toga.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/155efd7a391-5e97-4a7f%40webprd-m75.mail.aol.com.

[Joe Attueyi]

Oga Adeniran 

I don't think Nebu's point is about who the Yoruba political leadership supported in 1999 presidential election. His was referencing the period of Abdulsalam's Government and its transition program. 

The Yoruba political leadership had insisted on SNC or nothing until ABDULSALAM & co promised them a Yoruba presidency in 1999---and they quickly abandoned "SNC or nothing"

This tendency to quickly abandon principles for political expediency is not unique to Yoruba political leadership. It is a common trait among all Nigerians in my view. If , for instance, GEJ had by hook or crook won the last election the political North would have been agitating the most in Nigeria today. 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[rotfash]

An Oodua warrior in whom there is no guile!

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

> naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; africanworldforum <
> africanw...@googlegroups.com>; vincentotuonye <
> vincent...@msn.com>; okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>;
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> igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; igboworldforum <
> igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; okoiobla <okoi...@hotmail.com>;

> ikeagbor <ikea...@yahoo.com>; naijaobserver <

> naijao...@yahoogroups.com>; naijapolitics <
> naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; nigerianID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>;
> raayiriga <raay...@yahoogroups.com>; yanarewa <yana...@yahoogroups.com>;

> omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; rexmarinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Fri, Jul 15, 2016 2:12 pm

> Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi:

> REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>
>
>

> Rotimi Fashakin:
>
>
> Yes, refereshingly different indeed, in repeating several points that I
> have written, where in fact we concur,  except for what I did not read, and
> which should be horrifying rabid dishonesty and hateful ethnicism to you, a
> Nigerian of Yoruba extraction:
>
> QUOTE
>

>  The Yoroba political leaders of that era, as did their forebears of 1967,
> allowed the temporary solace of letting a Yoroba become president in 1999
> blind them to the bigger picture of what they had campaigned about since
> 1979. In 2015, they did similarly by allowing the appointing of Osibanjo as
> VP, a position wherein he is currently treated as a houseboy, to blind them
> to what the majority of Yorobas yearn for -- the restructuring of Nigeria.
> As typical, the Yoroba intelligentsia is comfortable with president
> Buhari's position that Nigeria's unity is not subject to negotiation --
> Osibanjo is championing that now.
>
> Whenever Yoroba and Awusa gang up politically, Nigeria degrades
> politically and economically and all of us suffer. This time around, their
> inglorious ganging up is being resisted by the Eastern minorities too and
> were the Middle Belt still alive politically, they would join to resist
> this unprogressive political system that is shaping up through APC.
>
>

> UNQUOTE
>
>
> Or you did not read that bit, Rotimi?
>
> Yes, refereshingly different indeed.....
>
> I shake my head at you - violently.
>
>
>
> Bolaji Aluko
> Still shaking it
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 6:51 PM, rotimi fashakin <rot...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Nebu, my brother!
>> Yours was refreshingly different.
>> I salute you.
>>
>> Rotimi Fashakin
>>
>>

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Nebukadineze Adiele <nebuka...@aol.com>
>> *To:* naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com;
>> naijain...@googlegroups.com
>> *Cc:* africanw...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com;

>> okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
>> igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com;
>> okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com;
>> rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com;
>> naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com;
>> raay...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com;
>> omo...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com

>> *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2016 5:04 PM
>> *Subject:* To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the

>>    - We the people of the Federal Republic of Nigeria
>>    - Having firmly and solemnly resolve [sic], to live in unity and

>>    harmony as one indivisible and indissoluble sovereign nation under God,
>>    dedicated to the promotion of inter-African solidarity, world peace,
>>    international co-operation and understanding

>>    - And to provide for a Constitution for the purpose of promoting the

>>    good government and welfare of all persons in our country, on the
>>    principles of freedom, equality and justice, and for the purpose of
>>    consolidating the unity of our people

>>    - Do hereby make, enact and give to ourselves the following

>>    - (3) Alterations to section 3 of this Constitution [which declares

>>    the constituent parts of Nigeria with respect to Regions] for the purpose
>>    of establishing new Regions out of other territories shall be effected only
>>    in accordance with the following procedure-

>>    - (a) a proposal for the alteration shall be submitted to each House

>>    of Parliament and, if that proposal is approved by a resolution of each of
>>    those Houses supported by the votes of at least two-thirds of all the
>>    members of that House, the proposal shall then be submitted to the
>>    legislative houses of all the Regions; and

>>    - (b) if the proposal is approved-
>>    - (i) by a resolution of each legislative house of a majority of all
>>    the Regions; or
>>    - (ii) by a resolution of each legislative house of at least two

>> Act to be "..*inconsistent with the provisions of the constitution "*

>>
>>
>> Joe
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> ect: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL
>> ACT
>>
>> Thank you pastor.
>>
>> But what if the Act is inconsistent with the provisions of the
>> constitution then what happens?
>>
>> With Regards
>>
>>
>> Olu/
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

>> *From: *'Joe Attueyi' via AfricanWorldForum
>> *Sent: *Friday, July 15, 2016 12:59
>> *To: *africanw...@googlegroups.com
>> *Reply To: *africanw...@googlegroups.com
>> *Cc: *naija...@googlegroups.com; vincent...@msn.com;

>> okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
>> igboe...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com;
>> okoi...@hotmail.com; alu...@gmail.com; ikea...@yahoo.com;
>> rot...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com;
>> naijap...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com;
>> raay...@yahoogroups.com; yana...@yahoogroups.com;
>> omo...@yahoogroups.com

>> *Subject: *Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the

>> *The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was

>> never about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not
>> even a question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via

>> delegated legislation does not count as inferior.  *

>>
>>
>> Bro Olu,
>> Thanks for redirecting this debate to the original question--even though
>> you are wrong in its definition
>>
>> The original question was:
>>

>> 1. *Do we need a constitutional amendment BEFORE we can conduct a

>> referendum for any part of Nigeria to democratically decide to secede or

>> not*

>>
>> 2. Obi's position is NO. The electoral act which is an act of the NA ,and
>> not inconsistent with the constitution , already provides a basis for
>> holding such a referendum without a need to amend the constitution
>>
>> 3. My view is that past practice --- the Midwest Referendum ( and the
>> South Cameroun plebiscite another) -- is proof that when agitation and
>> political environment align all you need is a bill of NA showing the area
>> and threshold for such a referendum NOT a constitutional amendment
>>
>> These are the arguments that got subsumed in 'inferiority of laws',
>> grundnorm ' etc.
>>
>> Though I have followed your arguments on this trail I am not sure I have
>> seen your answer to the original question
>>

>> Regardless of whether or not *the Electoral law was at par or even above
>> the constitution the Grundnorm of Nigeria *do we need a constitutional

>> amendment before we can hold a referendum in Nigeria?
>>
>>
>> Joe
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 15 Jul 2016, at 4:39 AM, 'Olu Ojedokun' via NaijaEvent <
>> naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Mr Rex,
>>
>> The question which you choose to re-define at your own instance was never
>> about inferiority of laws flowing from the constitution, thats not even a
>> question a lawyer will contemplate for even laws enacted via delegated
>> legislation does not count as inferior.
>>
>> The original question you implied and nuanced was the Electoral law was

>> at par or even above the constitution the *Grundnorm* of Nigeria and

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2016 7:31 PM
>> *To:* Rex Marinus; naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld;

>> okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
>> Igbo Events; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla; ALUKO
>> Mobolaji; Agbor Ike; rot...@yahoo.com

>> *Subject:* RE: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>
>> *Obi Nwana:*

>>
>> Yes, you're right. I recall you  giving the example of the Cameroon
>> plebiscite of 1961. I am unaware that Bolaji Aluko posted something on the
>> hierarchy of laws. I know I posted something about the hierarchy of laws

>> yesterday where I stated *inter alia* that the Constitution is

>> superior to other laws. Below is what I posted yesterday...
>>
>> But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is
>> concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the
>> same applies to Nigeria:
>>
>> 1. US Constitution
>>
>> 2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules
>>
>> 3. Federal administrative agency rules
>>
>> 4. Federal Common law cases
>>
>> 5. State Constitutions
>>
>> 6. State Statues and court rules
>>
>> 7. State agency rules
>>
>> 8. State Common law case law
>>
>> 9. Secondary authorities.
>>

>> *Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye*
>>
>> ------------------------------

>> subject of a referendum. And I rely on the principle of *stare decisis
>> et quieta non movere*.  And I hope this answers Bolaji Aluko's

>> otherwise quite coherent references to the theory of the Hierarchy of Laws.
>> But I have never argued about the supremacy or not of the constitution as
>> you have rightly observed. It is axiomatic. And so I think Okoi is just
>> grasping for straws on this subject! I have simply argued that every law
>> proceeding from the foundations of the constitution is coterminous with the
>> constitution. I do not include administrative laws, or city codes, or case
>> laws, and such like. And I thought this is obvious. And I think I've said
>> my bit, until there is any angle fresher than this. Sadly, I think that
>> this is the sort of debate that should be going on in the Nigerian media,
>> but which has been squelched by the crass, anti-intellectual habits of
>> contemporary Nigerian society. I salute you.
>> Obi Nwakanma
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on

>> behalf of Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>

>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:16 PM
>> *To:* naija...@googlegroups.com; africanworld;
>> okonkwo...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com
>> *Subject:* RE: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>>
>> *Iguade*:

>> *Chris Nwachukwu*, Okoi may not be referring to you but I wonder why he

>> used plural if he is referring to the writer before you. Why make this

>> statement *'All these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO

>> NOT (not doesn't) know a thing about the mechanics anmend intricacies

>> of constitutional jurisprudence'*. The phrase these emergency
>> constitutional lawyers is plural.
>>
>> *Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye*
>>
>> ------------------------------

>> *Okoi:*

>>
>> Chris Chima Nwachukwu is a lawyer. I know him. He is based here in
>> Atlanta. I don't understand your quip about ignorance and
>> emergency constitutional lawyers. Besides, Chris Nwachukwu made it clear
>> that the Constitution of Nigeria is Supreme to the Electoral Act. So I
>> don't understand your anger. But please note your statement should be 'All
>> these emergency constitutional lawyers who DON'T or DO NOT (not doesn't)
>> know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies of constitutional
>> jurisprudence'.
>>
>> But with regard hierarchy of laws, at least as far as the US is
>> concerned, the hierarchy of laws in the US are as follows and I believe the
>> same applies to Nigeria:
>>
>> 1. US Constitution
>>
>> 2. Federal Statutes, treaties and court rules
>>
>> 3. Federal administrative agency rules
>>
>> 4. Federal Common law cases
>>
>> 5. State Constitutions
>>
>> 6. State Statues and court rules
>>
>> 7. State agency rules
>>
>> 8. State Common law case law
>>
>> 9. Secondary authorities.
>>

>> *Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye*
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------

>> From: okoi...@hotmail.com
>> To: naija...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT
>> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 20:46:39 +0000
>>
>> Ignorance is a bad thing! All these emergency constitutional lawyers who
>> doesn't know a thing about the mechanics and intricacies ‎ of
>> constitutional jurisprudence come here to talk poppy cock!
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

>> *From: *cncnwachukwu via NaijaEvent
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, 13 July 2016 19:35
>> *To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
>> *Reply To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject: *Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* naija...@googlegroups.com <naija...@googlegroups.com> on

>> behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <okoi...@hotmail.com>

>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 13, 2016 5:40 AM
>> *To:* Rex Marinus; Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex
>> Marinus; africanw...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

>>
>> Obi Nwakanma, let me say categorically and unequivocally that the
>> Electoral Act is inferior to the Constitution in the hierarchy of Laws. The
>> Constitution is the fundamental or supreme law of the country. It is the
>> source and fountain of every thing other law including the Electoral Act.
>> In other words, it is the Constitution that gives legitimacy and efficacy
>> to ordinary legislation such the Electoral Act! So you suggestion that the
>> Electoral Act can be amended to take care of referendum to split the
>> Country is non sequitor with due respect. All processes and procedures
>> including referendum  to decide whether or not to break the ‎country must
>> flow from the Constitution which is the organic law otherwise it will
>> amount to a breach of the Constitution.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

>> *From: *Rex Marinus
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:18
>> *To: *Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; Rex Marinus;
>> africanw...@googlegroups.com
>> *Reply To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
>> Events; IgboWorldForum
>> *Subject: *Re: To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

>>
>> Okoi, I asked the question about the existence under the constitution of
>> the rights to vote for a reason. The laws regulating voting in Nigeria is
>> covered under the Electoral Act. All that it would take to conduct a
>> referendum is its simple incorporation into the Electoral Act. The law
>> itself already exists. It will not require any other law. The subject of a
>> referendum is immaterial. The recall process is the law of referenda. It
>> already exists in the Nigerian constitution. It is DIRECT DEMOCRACY:
>> throwing the question back the people. A referendum on whether a part of
>> Nigeria should be allowed to leave Nigeria can be raised for as long as the
>> electoral law governs petition, and the number of signatories required for
>> that petition to pass as a vote.
>> Obi Nwakanma
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* africanw...@googlegroups.com <

>> africanw...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Okoi Ofem Obono-Obla <
>> okoi...@hotmail.com>

>> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 12, 2016 2:03 PM
>> *To:* Rex Marinus; Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba;
>> naija...@googlegroups.com
>> *Cc:* NIgerianWorldForum; africanworldforum; ofume.phillip;

>> AfricanWorldForum; jniang20; USAAfricaDialogue; ybraimoh; jikenya; caroftp;
>> collyezebuihe; bolajumoke; abi4truth; nidan-group; iguade;
>> Christianandmuslimyoth; odidere2001; asimeon; gakume; bolajipundit011;
>> uali; Ola; awofeso; Vin; femmylawson; drkcasagwara; ougbesia; gsekibo;
>> YanArewa; ainuwa; bhenshaw; euzamere; Nebu; abagudu; igbonize;
>> salihumustafa; Ezeana; ibk; Raayiriga; aude; atelba; ozodiosuji;
>> davidwest62; ericayoola; sakinyede; IgboWorldForum; info; africatoday80;
>> ibanga.nh; madeleke; edoregeneration; afis; aeferakeya; sadeyemi; abba2007;
>> oohize; Peter; gngaji; arise; utafidan; ozodiosuji; nigerianID; aadeleke;
>> pcdbooks; agwu22; NaijaNews; mmuhammed; zekwueme; rexmarinus1966; vegba;
>> informative.media2016; abrahammadu; iida; alawan; nugbane; bibrahim;
>> kingsnna; limptintinc; Naijanet; wharfsnake@yahoo; vin_modebelu;
>> posakwe; talknigeria; alukome; aayuba; edo_global; info; glado;
>> ken.asagwara; msjoe21st; aooduma; gsaraki; jmanager; talknigeria;
>> kcprinceasagwara; naijaintellects; news; adeyemoadetokunbo; Igbo Events;
>> IgboWorldForum

>> *Subject:* [africanworldforum] Re: To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS &

>> SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF NIGERIA FOR REFERENDUM IN SOUTHSOUTH AND SOUTHEAST
>> OF NIGERIA – REMINDER (5)
>>
>> Obi Nwakanma , the right to vote in an election is different from the
>> right to vote in a referendum to balkanise t‎he country! Please do not mix
>> these two different concepts . The Nigerian Constitution do not contain any
>> clause on how any part of the country  that desires self determination is
>> to go about it. Conversely, the demand in some quarters for a referendum to
>> decide the quest of the South East to break away from the country is
>> strange to the Nigerian Constitution. So your proposition concerning the
>> holding of a referendum, filing of a petition and a declaration by the
>> Supreme Court is academic!
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

>> *From: *Rex Marinus
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, 12 July 2016 13:19
>> *To: *Ayo Ojutalayo; Patrick Nwakuba; naija...@googlegroups.com
>> *Reply To: *naija...@googlegroups.com
>>  Events; IgboWorldForum
>> *Subject: *To Okoi: APPLICATION OF BIAFRA (SS & SE) TO THE PRESIDSENT OF

[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

ENNOBLED, PEDESTAL, INFALLIBLE, INTELLECTUAL, COTERIE OBSEQUIUS LACKEY. ALL NA YEYE OYIBO.

 

You know Obi has been ennobled to the pedestal of an infallible intellectual by the coterie of obsequious lackeys hereabout. By Rotimi Fashakin

 

Rotimi:

 

This is the nonsense Ogbunigwe Grammars Ngbati people write and teaches in Nigeria schools that destroyed our educational system.

 

What is all these trash talk about “ennobled to the pedestal of an infallible intellectual by the coterie of obsequious lackeys”

 

What the hell are you talking about? Is there no other simple oyibo or adjective to convey your messages? Do you have to drop all these Ogbunigwe to prove that you have PhD in English from Oxford? You dey crase for nyash.

 

If you write or speak like this to Hausa/Fulani Soldier, he will flog you koboko right there.

 

This is why Nigerian Lawyers lose many good cases in Court because the Juries and the Judges doesn’t understand them.

 

Na wa for you Ngbati, Ngbati people.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

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From: 'rotimi fashakin' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: To Pastor Joe's Attention: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

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[Rex Marinus]

Rotimi Fashakin, I thought I made it clear the nature of the immunity enjoyed by Legislators. About which nations or climes where Legislative or Parliamentary immunity is a given take your pick! Actually in France there is the principle of "inviolability" that covers the legislator. Nothing they do while as Legislators can warrant arrest or prosecution. Their persons are basically inviolable. In Germany, no legislator can ever be arrested within or outside the Bundestag for actions within the parliament. In the US, even if the Congress withdraws the immunity of a Congressman to face criminal prosecution, and is jailed, the Congressman does not lose his/her congressional seat. They actually be coming from jail to sit in Congress. We can go on and on.

As to what happens within the prescints of the legislative Chambers: a member swinging the mace has clearly shown dishonorable conduct, and may be arrested and detained in the Senate by the Sergeant-At-Arms. In the US for instance, the only person authorized to arrest the president of the United states at the orders of the senate is the SAA of the Senate of the United States. That is their function, to keep order in the legislature. Such a member swinging the mace may after his detension in the senate, face the senate ethics committee, and by vote either suspended or expelled from the senate for gross misconduct by his parliamentary colleagues. In the case of Melaye, Mrs. Tinubu could seek protection of the senate against verbal abuse and the extension of senate collegiality, towards her, on he intervention of the senate president. Melaye actually cannot be prosecuted for ordinary speech. If he slapped Mrs. Tinubu, she could call up her own privileges and move to seek a resolution on Melaye who may also face an ethics question. In the case of senators involved in bribery, corruption, or even murder, outside of the senate or even within the senate, senate rules require that they face an ethics investigation, and sanction appropriately from senate. All crimes may be referred to the Attorney-General for prosecution as soon as the senate votes to withdraw the immunity of their colleague, or as soon a superior court rules to withdraw that immunity. That's how the parliament functions.

Parliamentary privilege is a given. Now, I prefer not to use Fayose as an example, but let us assume that a former governor of a state was involved in corruption, and was not investigated, nor countermanded by his state legislature, he has a right to seek a position in he senate. The only time he must be prosecuted or stopped by the Code of Conduct Tribunal, or police, or the courts, or his electors, is BEFORE he is permitted to contest and be elected or even sworn-in to take his seat in parliament. After that, he enjoys legislative immunity, and cannot be prosecuted until AFTER he has left parliament, for his old crimes, or if there is a petition for his recall by his constituents, or if pressure by organized and sustained public interest group forces his colleagues to vote to withdraw his immunity ti face investigation and criminal charges. That is why, the most important election in the land is election into the parliaments of the land, and why a vigilant, conscious and informed people, must recognize the necessity of electing he right people to parliament, and stopping the wrong people before they enter and are sworn-in to the Assembly. This is why we must make Nigerians aware of the fact that God is not a registered voter in Nigeria, and that he does not give ultimately, it is an organized citizenship that can remove a legislator, not the president, or the courts, because the only means by which a legislator, who is not time-barred can be checked is by the DIRECT impeachment of his constituent either by rejecting hem at the polls or by recalling them by referendum. I hope I answered your question.

Obi Nwakanma

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Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
From: rotfash
Date:15/07/2016 4:53 PM (GMT+01:00)
To: Rex Marinus ,"G.Dada" ,Joe Attueyi
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Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: #2 To Okoi: REFERENDUM & the ELECTORAL ACT

Dear Obi Nwakanma,

Again,  let me tackle you on some of the wild swings contained in yours.

First, are you, by any stretch, suggesting that this immunity you are advocating for the Nigerian legislators should go beyond the general immunity as regards opinions, conduct, etc expressed in the hallowed chambers and, specifically, giving them immunity outside the precincts of the Parliament?

Second, if the foregoing question is answered affirmatively, can you point at one clime, in the entire democratic world, where your imagined scenario subsists?

When you answer those two posers, I need to add that you are obviously out of tune with realities in the Nigeria polity. Citizens are speaking out loudly to demand that the parliamentary immunity enjoyed by legislators within the hallowed chambers should foreclose any criminality committed therein, given the penchant of the lawmakers for resorting to unimaginable superfluity of indecencies? The other day, a legislator turned the mace into a destructive weapon for clobbering every moving being in sight. If he committed murder in that hallowed chambers, you want him to be free from prosecution?

Again, if senator Dino Melaye had carried out his threat of beating up a female senator and had forced himself on her in the hallowed chambers, he should also be free from prosecution?

Again, your suggestion revealed some vacuity of mind and utter thoughtlessness. Before resorting to needless anger, let me explain. Whilst the executive offices are term-barred, that is, the maximum duration that the occupier of any executive position can remain in office; the legislative offices are not term-barred. In other words, a legislator can be elected to the parliament as many times as his age and health can carry him. In fact, in established climes, acuity of the parliamentary culture is determined by the number for a legislator. 

You need understand that, in Nigeria, the Senate has virtually become a retirement home for former governors. Do you now suggest that if a Fayose, 

with culpability in some criminal activities, should virtually become free from prosecution all his because he has become a senator after shedding off gubernatorial toga?

Now you see what I mean that,scratching beyond the surface of your suggestion would reveal its worthlessness for the Nigerian situation?!

I salute you Sir.

Rotimi Fashakin.

Sent from Samsung Mobile

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Nebukadineze Adiele:

Stop being dishonest - and that is not a slur.  "Yoroba" and "Awusa" are slurs, just as calling you an "Osu" or a "Nyaminrin" are slurs.

It is people like you who cause less sane people than yourself to murder others senselessly as you spew hatred and bigotry endlessly with your writings, and pretend that you are not in Goebellsian fashion.

Bolaji Aluko

On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Nebukadineze Adiele <nebuka...@aol.com> wrote:

Professor Adeboye,

I have no dispute over the points you reeled out below but the purpose served by these points is what is nonexistent. There is no doubt that the military guaranteed your Yoroba the presidency of Nigeria in 1999, so between Obasanjo and Falae, it was just a matter of tail or head Yoroba still won. You did not impeach my point with your facts and you did not dispute the fact that the Yoroba intelligentsia should never have settled with accepting that type of political pottage -- you should have told them to not accept that constitution whose flaws you saw ahead of some of us.

For the umpteenth time, Yoroba and Awusa are not slurs.  

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[Joe Attueyi]

Prof Aluko

You are actually VERY WRONG

Awusa--called in full Ndi Ugwu Awusa--is NOT a slur. It is Igbo descriptive name for those inhabiting North of the Niger. Onye Ugwu Awusa is an indigene of the area North of the Niger. There is absolutely nothing in it that is a slur

Just like Awusa Nebu writes Yoroba the way Igbos pronounce Yoruba. Whether he means it as a slur , only he can say. But every Igbo man pronounces Yoruba as Yoroba. 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joe Attueyi]

Dr Kassim

I , and I suspect many people hereabouts, will take your naivety every day in contrast to the available alternatives. 

As someone wrote : you have no guile. I may sometimes think your one Nigerianista is over the top but I cannot take away your consistency on matters of principle. You are not a situational 'one Nigeria' advocate. That is not what one would say for the many situational ethicists and hanti corruption hactivists that populate hereabouts 

Don't lose who you are. 

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"The Yoroba political leaders of that era, as did their forebears of 1967, allowed the temporary solace of letting a Yoroba become president in 1999 blind them to the bigger picture of what they had campaigned about since 1979. In 2015, they did similarly by allowing the appointing of Osibanjo as VP, a position wherein he is currently treated as a houseboy, to blind them to what the majority of Yorobas yearn for -- the restructuring of Nigeria. As typical, the Yoroba intelligentsia is comfortable with president Buhari's position that Nigeria's unity is not subject to negotiation -- Osibanjo is championing that now."

 . . . . Osu-Nebubuchadnezzar Adiele

Osu-Nebu,

What were your forebears doing when mine and Yoruba intelligentsia were making decisions for Nigeria? Was it not your forebear that made Obasanjo the President? Why did they not get him to restructure the country? Was Jonathan not adopted by Ndigbo as a son? Why did Ndigbo not get him to restructure the country? And where are Ndigbos today that Vice President Osibanjo is saying no restructuring? You said "majority of Yorubas yearn" for restructuring? What does majority of Ndigbo yearn for? Must it be only Yorubas that take positions on Nigerian issues? 

By the way, it is the hang-over of military governments that make Nigerians to expect the Executive branch of the government to restructure Nigeria. Every nook and corner of the country is represented at the National Assembly. Get your Senators and Representatives to work with their colleagues from other parts of the country to restructure the country.

That Nigeria's unity is not subject to negotiation is not new. That was settled with a civil war almost fifty years ago. Instead of occupying themselves with achievable-call for restructuring, your fathers, uncles, brothers and nephews are busy calling for and demonstrating for the impossible . . . . secession! 

Na jelousy go kill you and your ilk. Vice President Osibanjo is not being treated as a houseboy. There is no gang-up by Yoruba and Hausa. APC's formation is recent and still fresh in memory. It was open to everybody.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

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[olaka...@aol.com]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naive
Pastor Joe:

The world needs a lot of different kinds of human beings--
including those who might accurately be described as naive.

It could be argued that the world would be a better place
if it had millions more naive human beings than it actually has.

Children are naive by nature. Imagine how much more peaceful
the world would be if only children were allowed to keep a bit more
of their naivete and be more open to new ideas.

The Miriam-Webster dictionary cites the following quotes in its
examples of the use of the word naive in sentences:

Examples of naive in a sentence

1. Secularism requires a commitment to civil liberty, which rests partly on respect for civil disobedience—peaceful acts of conscience that challenge rules of law. If civil libertarianism is naïve, then so is the hope of secular government. —Wendy Kaminer, Free Inquiry, December 2008/January 2009

Bye,

Examples of naive in a sentence

1. Secularism requires a commitment to civil liberty, which rests partly on respect for civil disobedience—peaceful acts of conscience that challenge rules of law. If civil libertarianism is naïve, then so is the hope of secular government. —Wendy Kaminer, Free Inquiry, December 2008/January 2009

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