Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

[Joe Attueyi]

In the heat of internet academic discussion we say things we know not to be true, just to show how "pure" we are. I am pretty sure that Mr. Bolaji Aluko would not do what he has just boasted he would do. 

Yes Nebu. Exactly the same conclusions I came to when I read Prof Aluko. 

Marriage is already complex enough. Two adults raised in different environments trying to become one. Why would I make it any more complex for my child?

In the late '90s when I lived in Dolphin Estate Ikoyi, my neighbor was an elderly SAN who lived with his wife. He married her when she already had a daughter. Then both of them had 2 boys. The girl lived with her husband and children in Ikeja while the 2 boys lived abroad. The man would always complain that his boys could go 3 months without as much as calling him. The girl? Passes by his house on her way home from work every day. And nearly every sunday will come straight from church with her husband and kids to visit   

Life does not always follow 'culture and tradition '

Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Baduba54 badu...@aol.com [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Mr. Aluko,

You wrote:

If there are benefits he would have gained thereby, by not fulfilling those activities, he would lose them.

 

Please  say it ain't so. You will not deny your daughter her heritage because she married a man you did not approve. She loved him that is why she married him. I no be so? I have two white  friends who married into black families against their parents wishes and were initially written off. When the parents became old, their children brought them into their houses and took care of them till they died. The children had siblings who married according to their parents wishes, but at old age they did not lift a finger. In each case, the dying parents accepted that they made wrong decisions. I have a daughter who is married to an American. I would have loved for her to marry into a Nigerian family. She chose otherwise. I am happy with her. She has not and will never lose a dime if I have it. I love my grand children just as much. In the heat of internet academic discussion we say things we know not to be true, just to show how "pure" we are. I am pretty sure that Mr. Bolaji Aluko would not do what he has just boasted he would do. What I have learned in life is that parents do not win any battle against their children.

 

As for your comments on Mr. Nwakanma, I choose to skip or rather leave it to Mr. Nwakanma to hold brief for himself. I am awed by Mr. Nwakanma's intellectual prowess. I wish I had 10% of his knowledge. He is a true Nigerian intellectual.

 

Aduba

 

 

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Sent: Wed, Sep 2, 2015 6:54 am
Subject: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

• You for example wear  - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo? (Bolaji Aluko)

 

VC Aluko,

Ida kwa ya ozo (you have flunked it again). What you dubbed Rastafarian hairdo is called ishi dada in Igbo language. It was worn (and still being worn by non-Christian brainwashed Igbos of today) in Igbo land long before the ancestors of Rastafarians were shipped off the coasts of West Africa.

 

Ishi dada comes naturally on a person wearing it upon birth. It is never to be shaved until the gods say so, usually at the wearer's teenage to adulthood years. Most ishi dadas are spiritualists, just like your grandfather minus his blood ingesting and fear instilling on the populace of his ear. If professor Nwakanma is an ishi dada wearer, you'd better respect him -- people that powerful can point a finger at you and you will miss a tooth instantly.   

 

Mazi Obi Nwakanma does not just write for Igbos on yahoo, he also writes for Igbo gburugburu (Igbo all round). He is a blessing to Igbos of today because without him, cultural imperialists and supremacists like you, Ayo Ojutalayo, and that Bini Ewan whatishislastnameagain, would have written Igbo into oblivion with your revisionism.

 

In your bible, it is written that Timothy mastered the scriptures while still in his mother's womb. With respect to Igbo culture, professor Obi Nwakanma, who is younger than most of us on these forums, is Timothy to the 3rd power. You know it to be so, professor Aluko, but your Yoroba supremacist outlook will not allow you to honor it; you'd rather use falsehood to discredit him. You will never succeed in doing so.  

 

Ndewo.   

 

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Relive Reason!

 

In a message dated 9/2/2015 5:14:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alu...@gmail.com writes:

Obi Nwakanma:

I have come to learn that you blow too much hot air and grammar when it comes to asserting Igbo supermenschen cultural supremacy. You like to pontificate to Igbo yahoogroups as if you are the Igbo cultural watchman.  

You for example wear  - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo?

Biko...ye'm efe! ;-)

But I won't take you up line-by-line for what you wrote below.  Your son may elope with my daughter - she will still be my daughter and he will still be my son-in-law - but if he wishes my approval of their wedding (which may or may not matter on the long run), he will have to suscribe to the cultural activities that I lay down towards that event.  If there are benefits he would have gained thereby, by not fulfilling those activities, he would lose them.  If he benefits MORE by not fulfilling my requests, so be it.

But be assured of this:  if my son marries your daughter, I will ask him to fulfil the obligations consistent with YOUR Igbo (real and contrived) cultural requirements, and HIS Christian sensibilities.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

If my son, comes to marry your daughter, Professor Aluko, he'll certainly not bow to you. He may do something else to accord you his highest regard. You may decide to let him marry, or elope with your daughter, if they feel strongly enough about each other. But if, on account of his acting his true Igboness, you refuse him, so be it. There is a cultural sense in Igbo, and I think in other places, that define these choices. For the Igbo, "Aka wu Ike Nga" - the hand is the sign of one's autonomy, and one's industry, and so we raise our hands in the highest salute to great deeds. We say, to a great man, "Aka m no n'elu!" I raise my hands in salute to you. The Igbo consider all men born to earth living divinities. Man or child - the ancient Igbo considered each one a "living god" (mmuo loro uwa). The first thing a man, at the threshold of manhood does is to establish his home. First, he is shown the land. The next is, he makes an offering of a ram to the High God, called "Nkpi ihu chukwu" and thereafter establishes what we call, "Ihu Chi" -  a shrine to the self and to one's guiding spirit, by planting the two trees - the "oha" and the "Ogilisi" - the trees of life because they regenerate cyclically. God is never represented in any shrine or in an image, except through man, in Igbo Odinala beliefs. For the woman, once she arrives the home of her marriage, she also installs a shrine to herself, also called, "Ihu Eke." These two principles establish the duality of the divine, "Chi na Eke" in Igbo thought and ritual. Those who see themselves as direct descendants of the divine are forbidden to bow to another, and for a "DiAla" (lord of the land), irrespective of wealth or title, to bow to another is often called, "Nso Ala." It is a small crime against the earth goddess, the force of all divine laws in Igbo land. The Igbo say, "Ohu wu Ohu" - only the captive or slave, is forced to his knees, or those subdued by force. They become the "living dead" because they have no agency. Which is why an Igbo would prefer suicide than to be forced to give up the inner agency called his 'CHI.'

If a true Igbo wants to take a title, for instance, he sits on a low carved stool, with four legs. He does not kneel. He does not bow. An array of all the men of title, each with his personal "Ofo ," form a circle around him before his personal shrine at the center of his compound, and they do what we call, "Isu Ofo Nze."  When the "abuba Ugo" - the feather of the great Eagle - is stuck on his cap, he rises and takes four hand salutes with his horsewhip to indicate the equality and strength of his arms, and dances the dance of title, called 'Egwu Ozo" played on the "Epete" in my neck of the woods, and is joined in the dance by all men of title, and then his well-wishers. A man dies, and his title is buried with him. It is not inherited - "Chi Awughi Otu."In Igbo beliefs, therefore, we do not bow, because to bow to another is to say, "Chi Wam" - be my God. You cede the divine in you, according to that belief, and you insult the great creator of all things, who gave you being, and of whose essence you embody.

It is not just a matter of cultural superiority, it is rooted in ancient Igbo religious beliefs. The only time a man bows to you symbolically is when he enters your "Obu/Ovu," because when you come to his own "Obu/ovu" you too will bow to him, and make your peace salutation. Children, from very early are thought to greet an elder by shaking their hands firmly. Elders themselves are obligated to instruct the young in the perfect ways of the land. The sum of all Igbo law is the law of balance - not of superiority. I will offer you just an example: in Igbo land, it is the least among us - the youngest - that is given the duty of sharing or dividing things held in common. And it is the right of the eldest, following a hierarchy to pick first. The logic is simple: we protect the weak by giving them power. Because he knows he will be the last to pick, the young must therefore strive to be just in "ike oke" - in the sharing. So you see, while age has its privileges, it also has its responsibilities. It is what the Igbo call, "Iha zi oke" - to establish balance and equity. So, for the Igbo, if bowing to your elders is the way of your world, may it be as you see fit with your gods. We do not bow, because, "Ala forbids." They who bow are "ohu." I salute you.

Obi Nwakanma

 

---

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:05:46 +0100
Subject: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial: Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku
From: alu...@gmail.com
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
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Nebukadineze Adeiel:

Honestly, Ayo Ojutalayo got the better of you in this exchange below - and it is not because he is a friend (from university days) or he is like me Yoruba.  It is just that when it comes to comparative culture, condemnations must be very measured.

A people do not just arrive at a cultural practice by democratic means, by voting, and hence cannot eschew those practices by democratic means.  Invariably, cultural practices - and their stoppage - occur either by internal or external force, invariably in a manner to enable the physical or social survival of the group.  When a survival is no longer under threat, it can be done away with - or retained for historical or for cultural differentiation reason.

For example, bowing down for an elder - or certain royalty - is a mark of respect in most cultures of the world. A few cultures - like that of the Yoruba - take it further and prostrate for the king and a select few elders - but not for EVERY older person or at every occassion.  You may have to prostrate for somebody only in the morning, and not for the rest of the day.  There may be reason to join others to prostrate for somebody in public, along with others, but not in private....and so on.  WHY a particular practice occurs may be lost in the mist of time, but it is NEVER arbitrary.

Is it every Yoruba cultural practice that I support?  Absolutely not, even those ones that are relatively harmless.  But I either hold my nose and practice them, or AVOID those arenas where my NOT practising them will show me as a cultural boor, because showing yourself as a cultural rebel for nothing is worthless.  An Igbo man or European cannot now come and want to marry a Yoruba girl, and say that because they do not prostrate in Igboland or in Europe for elders, he will stand erect and shake the bride-to-be's father....even me, as non-traditional as I am, will require fulfillment of all cultural requirements before  I marry off my three daughters,  and I expect my two sons to do Likewise.

By the way, my medical-school first daughter, born in the US almost thirty years ago has just spent six weeks in Ibadan, on a Fulbright exchange program  at UI, to be steeped in Yoruba speaking and culture.  She thoroughly enjoyed herself - her group also visited major Yoruba towns on the process.  She even began to "pa owe" (speak in or tell proverbs) to me.  But I quickly corrected her that on Yorubaland, younger persons do not "pa owe" to elders, and of at all, it must be with feigned deep apologies and permission.  She apologized for her first errant attempt at showing off her new learning without that cultural nuance:-)

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:05 AM, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Nebu: Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces).

Response: Lagos "is not much of Yoruba land"? You are still in your dream land.

How did you know that Onyeka's kneeling down to greet PMB was not a mark of any culture? Or have you spoken to her after the incident?

 

Nebu: As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful  and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer.

Response: Imperial was telling you what happens. He was not dignifying the practice. By the way, that the practice is unacceptable to you does not mean it  is unacceptable to those doing it. After all, no one is forced to do it.

 

Nebu: On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler.

Response: Many of us including yours truely have heard from Igbo friends and acquaintances that Igbo culture does not care about respect for elders unlike other African cultures. Even on these forums, one could see that Igbo's culture does not respect. Vin Otuonye that was born in Yoruba land not long ago complained about "too much respect by Yorubas"! That is why you and your ilk do not hesitate to abuse and insult other Nigerians and Nigerian leaders dead and alive. 

Because Igbo does not have traditional rulers like the Yoruba Obas and Northern Emirs, you cannot understand why they are treated with reverence. If the Prime Minister of Britain bows to the Queen, why should a Governor not bow to an Oba? The Governors come and go, the institution of Obaship is there for ever. Stay away from what you cannot understand.

 

Nebu: That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others.

Response: It is not your business that Yorubas have no "drawn line between official and traditional roles". In actual fact, it is only in Igbo culture that there is the so called line drawn "between official and traditional roles". In all other geo-political zones in Nigeria, traditional rulers are respected by elected officials. They are traditional fathers of all, including the governors.

 

Nebu:  No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. 

Response: Are you saying an Igbo lady married to another culture should not assimilate and practise the culture of her new home? Onyeka's children are said to be Yorubas. Even non-Nigerians that marry Yorubas do kneel down to greet elders.

 

Nebu: Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to  them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a  people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century.

Response: Atiku is respected by the Governor because of his being an elder not because he was a Vice President. That is the respect for elders that is said to be lacking in Igbo culture. This respect is even appreciated by non-Africans. No one is forcing "Igbo people to copy" our way of life. There are over 200 cultures in Nigeria and none is forced on others. You are the one that should mind your business and stop criticizing others' way of life. 

 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Nebukadineze via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
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Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 8:39 PM
Subject: To Imperial: ||NaijaObserver||Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku

Imperial,

I am not sure that you read what I wrote about Tinubu's bowing his head for Buhari (whether it was before or after his inauguration). Without repeating myself, let me just say that I found it acceptable -- you can read what I wrote a second time.

 

Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces).

 

As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer.

 

On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler.

 

That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others.

 

That Igbos worship moneyed folks is a recent phenomenon of the late 1980s to now. In Igbo land of my father's and of my childhood, a person without character, no matter how wealthy, was never respected. When we were children, dad would point to we-we (marijuana) smokers and alcoholics as derelicts unworthy of emulating. From an early age, I began to loathe weed smokers and alcoholics because they were never respected by our people. A thief, no matter how wealthy, was neither respected nor allowed to speak in any gathering of Igbos during my childhood. Yes, it is true that  wealthy people, even armed robbers and 419ners, command the most respect in Igbo land of today, but it was not always like that. Even though that is the norm now in Igbo land (most traditional leaders and politicians in Igbo of today are people who would have been shunned in Igboland of the 1970s and going backward), not every Igbo is in acceptance of that debauchery. I do not respect or associate with people without character or whose means of livelihood are not transparently honest. I have once told the story of backing out of chairing an Mbaise festival after I found out (about two weeks before the occasion) that a recently paroled 419ner had bought asoebi uniform for all the women and was sponsoring the occasion. I am not the only Igbo who rejects such associations.   

 

No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. 

 

Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a  people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century.

 

 

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Relive Reason!

 

In a message dated 8/30/2015 6:52:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wharf...@yahoo.com writes:

Imperial my friend,

Was it Yoruba culture before the loss at Ilorin to the Fulani or after? Please back up with verifiable historical artifacts.

Sent from my iPhone

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Imperial < imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Nebu, 

Buhari wasn't president when the above photo with Bola Tinubu was taken but kindly note that it's part of Yoruba and northern culture for one to respect people who are older including the current and past leaders. That Bola Tinubu bowed to Buhari isn't strange to the majority of Yoruba people as it's our culture to respect elders . From all available records, Buhari was already our military head of state before Tinubu was appointed Treasurer of Mobil Oil Nigeria at Bookshop House,Lagos. If you were in his shoes,would you have acted otherwise ?  

During the military era in Nigeria, many state governors always sit on the carpet when meeting or talking to a superior or top military officer eg a two star officer like General Ishola Williams. It's a Northern culture adopted countrywide by the military to show respect to elders or bosses . 

A young Igbo man in his mid 30s once told me that he learned how to respect elders when he came to secondary school in Lagos and that in the East respect is accorded to people based to wealth hence everybody around him looks for money desperately. Ms Onyeka Onwenu was bred largely in Lagos; it's unlikely she would restrict herself to only Igbo traditions and culture. As you probably aware, Dr Mike Adenuga(  in his early 60s ) perhaps is the richest Yoruba man around today, it's impossible for him to address an older man of say in his 70s by name or talk rudely to such person except they engage in a very serious quarrel. 

In the UK, China and Japan and many other civilized countries, you have to curtsey or kowtow when meeting important people, like the Queens, Kings and other leaders.  I hope our brothers and sisters who haven't adopted this culture - which is common among all Africans - should try to borrow a leaf from others as it promotes orderliness and organized structure which wasn't in place in some part of Nigeria when Lord Lugard took over the control of the country over a century ago .  

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 30, 2015, at 13:35, Nebuka...@aol.com wrote:

Vin Modebelu,

You should have included that Onyeka Onwenu idolatrous picture too. I would starve to death than conduct myself in any of this shameful obsequiousness. Just imagine a whole governor of a state sitting on a dirty floor upon which shoes, possibly stepped on human and animal feces, were stepped on a few minutes prior, just to defer to a wealthy former Vice President of Nigeria? That pathetic symbolism is that of Atiku Abubakar standing on the entire people of Adamawa state. Tufiakwa!

 

With respect to Tinubu, much is not wrong with his mien, he was just acknowledging the current status of president Buhari by bending his head for him. There is nothing wrong in so doing -- former president Clinton did it for president Obama after giving a speech at the last Democratic Party's National Convention (Obama will do similarly for his successor); former president Obasanjo did so for then sitting president Jonathan and now sitting president Buhari. Granted that Tinubu bowed too low, he is still within a reasonable conduct -- he was sort of ushering the president into his new status; it is officially acceptable from former leaders.

 

Onyeka Onwenu deserves to be fined by Ndi Igbo for her depraved worshiping of her fellow human being, something frowned upon by Igbo culture -- that picture cannot escape my memory and it galls me steadily. 

 

As for the stupid governors who are bowing to Obas, in a republican democratic nation, they are subjecting their mandates to these Obas' superiority. Ironically, the Nigerian constitution makes the Obas inferior to governors who can query and even remove them from their thrones. But most of these governors were either 'money missed roads' or intellectual nobodies before becoming governors, so they still suffer the inferiority complex of not recognizing the implications of their positions or of their obsequious actions. This is why a confederation is better for Nigeria, so that folks can worship their fellow human beings without such conduct chagrining others of the same country.   

 

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Relive Reason!

 

In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:00:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vin_mo...@yahoo.com writes:

This is pure loyalty....for monies and lively hood.

The Governor had already appointed Atikus daughter as the Commissioner for health. Atiku now owns Adamawa.

the Obas sit on the floor for Asiwaju too. Asiwaju prostrates for Buhari

The Governors lie face down for the Obas .

Many humans lie face down in the streets for governors.

vin.....///

....Born to tell the truth

....they are listening indeed
... thick walls will  fall

"Loyalty Or Culture"; Caption This Photo Of Adamawa State Governor Sitting On The Floor In Atiku's Presence

 

  
Adamawa state governor, Jibrila Bindow, pictured sitting on the floor at the residence of former vice president Atiku Abubakar. Is this a form of loyalty or just culture
http://www.nationalhelm.com/2015/08/loyalty-or-culture-caption-this-photo.html

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[daniel Akusobi]

Nwanna Nwakama,

Mma mma o. Aka m no n'elu o. I ga adi. Ala domekwe gi o.

Hope Mazzi Aluko would appreciate all the well deserved accolades I showered on Nwanna Nwakama for that his brief on some Igbo culture be showcased below.
What he described, the way of ascension to traditional stool and initiation into manhood is a class. There are some aspects he did not mention probably because it is not very relevant here based on the issue at hand. It is called iwa akwa, ie initiation into manhood. This is not a universal Igbo practice . It is more common in Mbano and Ettiti areas in Okigwe zone. I saw the ceremony for the first and last time in my side in 1968. Today, my side thinks it is a pagan practice.
The ogirishi ( a shrub)  he mentioned and their symbolic representation in an
Igboman' s tracking of his milestones into manhood and Ozoship remains very significant  today.
That practice is already buried in my side of town . Again, the Catholic priests have succeeded in convincing my people that Ogirishi and Udara tree ( Apple tree) are symbols of idol worship ans my people yielded. They now bow before status of a woman that bore a son without knowing a man, and some human, Roman figures.
Nwakamma also mentioned Igbos  do not transfer titles. That is true and may account for why we even compete with our dads in acquiring social recognitions. We die with all our titles and any of our kids that like what we had would have to work for it, unaided.

The idea is in this philosophy,  ndu wu n'ishi n'ishi  , a metaphor celebrating our recognition of  our unique individualism.

Like I said earlier in another posting, a way to make a real Igbo feel like killing himself is to force him to bow to a fellow.
Thanks Nwakamma and thanks to Nebu for dragging me to read that marvelous piece by Nwakamma.
Igbos need his ingenuity order wise Alukos and Ariyos and Ayos and the Afis and Olas  and Toyins would be recreating the Igbos  here.
Dan

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Nebu:

I am baffled: I really don't know where Igbo traditions and culture diverted from Yoruba ones, but male children/people born/required to wear long (Rastafari-like) hair are also called "Dada" in Yoruba-land.

There must have been some form of another rebellion some time in the past.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

>> <https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/t8vEOGd56Jz3oT99_i5NimWqisjGHbpdnQ-nI73H0SKIscO_GAcmpi8pL66nTNcOWdYdZI2sdrVGPVaS0dIWrpMxdRF_czZMcSFk_YTzyyWULTgKX4Jz=s0-d-e1-ft#https://krazyinsidekenya.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wpid-001.jpg>

>>
>>
>> "Loyalty Or Culture"; Caption This Photo Of Adamawa State Governor Sitting On The Floor In Atiku's Presence
>>

>>  <https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cvMgx42_nw0/VeKzxal_WhI/AAAAAAAA8hA/BeTg3MI0mLQ/s400/vdef.jpg>

>>   
>> Adamawa state governor, Jibrila Bindow, pictured sitting on the floor at the residence of former vice president Atiku Abubakar. Is this a form of loyalty or just culture
>> http://www.nationalhelm.com/2015/08/loyalty-or-culture-caption-this-photo.html
>>

>> <https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ZLQFEh9VRKPNe_aI1gbn2Mshz4YTYgmiy531-Lx5fTepOZ5zR1hmZ7memrG_1cJ5TCFPIADQsIQGLnPA3c5ocCLFE_9781GIUfJw-UymCfYscp4VffhEWot_3df9Ixe2xYyTv6UvhEOu2SUx_Ps22w=s0-d-e1-ft#http://gist212.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0a7c24526228ddd924bd233c4ee0ba5f12a28332.jpg>

[Wilson Iguade]

hehehehe!

I totally get this joke. Baffled indeed! Dada and Rastafarian Hehehehehe!

Wow! 

Iguade

---

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:42:46 +0100
Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
From: alu...@gmail.com
To: Nebuka...@aol.com
CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com

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[Vin Otuonye]

But it is not a joke.
 
Vin
 

---

From: igu...@hotmail.com
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com
CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; develop...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:00:36 -0500

[olaka...@aol.com]

Bolaji and Nebu:

I also found the similarity between how the name Dada
is applied to newborns in both Igbo and Yoruba cultures eerie
--but not necessarily as surprising
as I would have been since about a decade ago when I stumbled
on to a publication of names of different objects and body parts
between the two languages.

One of my first exchanges with Nebu on Naijapolitics was when
he vigorously contested my assertion that the name Ola--which is used
both as a prefix and as suffix in Yoruba first and last names and occasionally
as stand alone surname is peculiar to and
probably specific to the Yoruba.

Nebu was just too eager to counter my uninformed assertion by claiming
ownership of the name Ola for the Igbo.
He mentioned some Igbo names that also either started with or ended with
Ola and also as a stand alone name.

The lesson in this revelation is that those who claim that their ethnic
groups are so distinct and are therefore geneologically unrelated to other Nigerian and African
ethnicities have probably not kept up to date with recent and remote
studies in the fields of archaeology, history, linguistics and of course
genealogical science.

The claim by some folks that their own ethnic groups emerged and have always
been at the same location we find them in today's Nigeria is false.

Human beings have always been on the move since the first index pair of Homo sapiens
emerged and became a distinct species from our nearest genealogical non-human cousins
in East Africa between 175,000 and 200,000 years ago. It is from this common origin in East
Africa that the ancestors of modern humans beings have moved on to populate the currently
known habitable regions of the world. the differences between the physical appearances
among all races of human beings arose from adaptive mutations to suit their new environments.

In short we are all related! We would find this to be true if we keep digging through history and if
we are able to time travel backwards far enough to find our common origins.

Those who claim to live all their lives believing in the distinctiveness and uniqueness of their race
or ethnicity do so from a primitive and clannish mindset that is anachronistic in these modern times.

Why is the Olu of Warri named Olu and why is the Obi of Onitsha titled Obi if not due to their connections
to other parts of southern Nigeria namely Yoruba and Edoland respectively.
And why is there an Ijebu-Igbo in Ogun state? Why are monarchs in Edo and Yoruba land titled Oba
if they share no kinship!

And  why was it possible for OBJ, who some claim to have been fathered by an Igbo postmaster
posted to Owu in the early 20th century able to have successfully served as President of Nigeria
as a Yoruba while in the process using up the Igbo slot in the presidential allocation
not only once but on three occassions--once as a Military HoS and twice as a democratically elected
president. Go figure!:) The name Obasanjo could also be easily legitimized as an Igboid name with
only  a few changes in the intonation, pronunciation and vowels!

Bye,

Ola

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Wilson:

Vin is right:  I am not joking.

There is an ebb and flow of cultural and traditional practices between the Yoruba and the Igbo (that also run through our cousins  the Bini) that is unmistakable.  The easterly direction appears to be a combination of cultural forgetting and rebellion, to my mind.

But I may be wrong;  I have been known to be episodically wrong.

And there you have it.

Bollaji Aluko

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/BAY176-W23BAAF906A443A7C6A6F28DB690%40phx.gbl.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Bolaji,

It is interesting that Igbos too have "Dada". I suspect Igbo and Yoruba's cultural "disagreements" can be likened to the Americans' rebellion that made them to call what the British call "bonnet", "hood", they call what the British call "boot", "trunk" etc etc. That is why an Igbo of Obi Nwakanma's school of thought would rather die than greet or show respect the way Yorubas do. This is another evidence that Igbo culture is a "product" of Yoruba culture the way American English is a "product" of British English.. 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "olaka...@aol.com" <olaka...@aol.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 5:42 PM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAORq2DBV1Gg2aB5EOvu8ZFiCY14pTp%2BZgtqr54LAy6-GuW8Cpw%40mail.gmail.com.

[olaka...@aol.com]

"This is another evidence that Igbo culture is a "product" of Yoruba culture the way American English is a "product" of British English.."--Ayo

Ayo:

Could it also be the other way round--i.e. the Yoruba
being a product of the Igbo culture just as the Ikwerre
might also be a product of the Igbo culture or vice versa?

The final truce might be to accept the historical fact that
there has been a lot of cross-cultural 'fertilization'--in the
reproductive sense between the two cultures.

As the saying goes, only the mother knew the true
the paternal origin of her child until the invention of
paternity laboratory tests.

And OBJ's contested origins from both Yoruba and Igbo
might be the final unifying factor.

This might be the reason why OBJ is one of the most nationalistic
leaders Nigeria has ever had--and the reason he has claimed
that he would die for Nigeria if needed.:)

Bye,

Ola

[Joseph Igietseme]

”””But I may be wrong;  I have been known to be episodically wrong.”””……….Unquote VC-B!

Hahaha…………..even in Edo, the Rasta-like isi child is called Dada! We have them in my family; JUI almost became “Dada” sef…………hehehe!

This Nebu’s statement almost made JUI to fall from his chair: “””Ishi dada comes naturally on a person wearing it upon birth. It is never to be shaved until the gods say so, usually at the wearer's teenage to adulthood years. Most ishi dadas are spiritualists, just like your grandfather minus his blood ingesting and fear instilling on the populace of his ear. If professor Nwakanma is an ishi dada wearer, you'd better respect him -- people that powerful can point a finger at you [VC Bolaji] and you [VC-B] will miss a tooth instantly.”””

Wallahi, the next time JUI sees VC Bolaji, he will check his 32 teeth very well for completion……Hahaha! Naijas na wa!!! Take care. JUI
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Vin Otuonye]

Ola:

Did OBJ tell you his father is/was Igbo? The tribal marks OBJ has on his face, are that Igbo marks? I doubt if OBJ can even speak Igbo.  Listen,  OBJ bosom friend, late Major Patrick Chukwuma Kaduna Nzeogwu doesn't even speak Igbo very well. 

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

>> If my son, comes to marry your daughter, Professor Aluko, he'll certainly not bow to you. He may do something else to accord you his highest regard. You may decide to let him marry, or elope with your daughter, if they feel strongly enough about each other. But if, on account of his acting his true Igboness, you refuse him, so be it. There is a cultural sense in Igbo, and I think in other places, that define these choices. For the Igbo, "Aka wu Ike Nga" - the hand is the sign of one's autonomy, and one's industry, and so we raise our hands in the highest salute to great deeds. We say, to a great man, "Aka m no n'elu!" I raise my hands in salute to you. The Igbo consider all men born to earth living divinities. Man or child - the ancient Igbo considered each one a "living god" (mmuo loro uwa). The first thing a man, at the threshold of manhood does is to establish his home. First, he is shown the land. The next is, he makes an offering of a ram to the High God, called "Nkpi ihu chukwu" and thereafter establishes what we call, "Ihu Chi" -  a shrine to the self and to one's guiding spirit, by planting the two trees - the "oha" and the "Ogilisi" - the trees of life because they regenerate cyclically. God is never represented in any shrine or in an image, except through man, in Igbo Odinala beliefs. For the woman, once she arrives the home of her marriage, she also installs a shrine to herself, also called, "Ihu Eke." These two principles establish the duality of the divine, "Chi na Eke" in Igbo thought and ritual. Those who see themselves as direct descendants of the divine are forbidden to bow to another, and for a "DiAla" (lord of the land), irrespective of wealth or title, to bow to another is often called, "Nso Ala." It is a small crime against the earth goddess, the force of all divine laws in Igbo land. The Igbo say, "Ohu wu Ohu" - only the captive or slave, is forced to his knees, or those subdued by force. They become the "living dead" because they have no agency. Which is why an Igbo would prefer suicide than to be forced to give up the inner agency called his 'CHI.'
>> If a true Igbo wants to take a title, for instance, he sits on a low carved stool, with four legs. He does not kneel. He does not bow. An array of all the men of title, each with his personal "Ofo ," form a circle around him before his personal shrine at the center of his compound, and they do what we call, "Isu Ofo Nze."  When the "abuba Ugo" - the feather of the great Eagle - is stuck on his cap, he rises and takes four hand salutes with his horsewhip to indicate the equality and strength of his arms, and dances the dance of title, called 'Egwu Ozo" played on the "Epete" in my neck of the woods, and is joined in the dance by all men of title, and then his well-wishers. A man dies, and his title is buried with him. It is not inherited - "Chi Awughi Otu."In Igbo beliefs, therefore, we do not bow, because to bow to another is to say, "Chi Wam" - be my God. You cede the divine in you, according to that belief, and you insult the great creator of all things, who gave you being, and of whose essence you embody.
>> It is not just a matter of cultural superiority, it is rooted in ancient Igbo religious beliefs. The only time a man bows to you symbolically is when he enters your "Obu/Ovu," because when you come to his own "Obu/ovu" you too will bow to him, and make your peace salutation. Children, from very early are thought to greet an elder by shaking their hands firmly. Elders themselves are obligated to instruct the young in the perfect ways of the land. The sum of all Igbo law is the law of balance - not of superiority. I will offer you just an example: in Igbo land, it is the least among us - the youngest - that is given the duty of sharing or dividing things held in common. And it is the right of the eldest, following a hierarchy to pick first. The logic is simple: we protect the weak by giving them power. Because he knows he will be the last to pick, the young must therefore strive to be just in "ike oke" - in the sharing. So you see, while age has its privileges, it also has its responsibilities. It is what the Igbo call, "Iha zi oke" - to establish balance and equity. So, for the Igbo, if bowing to your elders is the way of your world, may it be as you see fit with your gods. We do not bow, because, "Ala forbids." They who bow are "ohu." I salute you.
>> Obi Nwakanma
>>
>>  
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:05:46 +0100
>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial: Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku
>> From: alu...@gmail.com
>> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
>> CC: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>> Nebukadineze Adeiel:
>> Honestly, Ayo Ojutalayo got the better of you in this exchange below - and it is not because he is a friend (from university days) or he is like me Yoruba.  It is just that when it comes to comparative culture, condemnations must be very measured.
>> A people do not just arrive at a cultural practice by democratic means, by voting, and hence cannot eschew those practices by democratic means.  Invariably, cultural practices - and their stoppage - occur either by internal or external force, invariably in a manner to enable the physical or social survival of the group.  When a survival is no longer under threat, it can be done away with - or retained for historical or for cultural differentiation reason.
>> For example, bowing down for an elder - or certain royalty - is a mark of respect in most cultures of the world. A few cultures - like that of the Yoruba - take it further and prostrate for the king and a select few elders - but not for EVERY older person or at every occassion.  You may have to prostrate for somebody only in the morning, and not for the rest of the day.  There may be reason to join others to prostrate for somebody in public, along with others, but not in private....and so on.  WHY a particular practice occurs may be lost in the mist of time, but it is NEVER arbitrary.
>> Is it every Yoruba cultural practice that I support?  Absolutely not, even those ones that are relatively harmless.  But I either hold my nose and practice them, or AVOID those arenas where my NOT practising them will show me as a cultural boor, because showing yourself as a cultural rebel for nothing is worthless.  An Igbo man or European cannot now come and want to marry a Yoruba girl, and say that because they do not prostrate in Igboland or in Europe for elders, he will stand erect and shake the bride-to-be's father....even me, as non-traditional as I am, will require fulfillment of all cultural requirements before  I marry off my three daughters,  and I expect my two sons to do Likewise.
>> By the way, my medical-school first daughter, born in the US almost thirty years ago has just spent six weeks in Ibadan, on a Fulbright exchange program  at UI, to be steeped in Yoruba speaking and culture.  She thoroughly enjoyed herself - her group also visited major Yoruba towns on the process.  She even began to "pa owe" (speak in or tell proverbs) to me.  But I quickly corrected her that on Yorubaland, younger persons do not "pa owe" to elders, and of at all, it must be with feigned deep apologies and permission.  She apologized for her first errant attempt at showing off her new learning without that cultural nuance:-)

>> And there you have it.
>>
>> Bolaji Aluko
>>

>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 6:52:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wharf...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Imperial my friend,
>> Was it Yoruba culture before the loss at Ilorin to the Fulani or after? Please back up with verifiable historical artifacts.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Imperial < imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nebu, 
>> Buhari wasn't president when the above photo with Bola Tinubu was taken but kindly note that it's part of Yoruba and northern culture for one to respect people who are older including the current and past leaders. That Bola Tinubu bowed to Buhari isn't strange to the majority of Yoruba people as it's our culture to respect elders . From all available records, Buhari was already our military head of state before Tinubu was appointed Treasurer of Mobil Oil Nigeria at Bookshop House,Lagos. If you were in his shoes,would you have acted otherwise ?  
>> During the military era in Nigeria, many state governors always sit on the carpet when meeting or talking to a superior or top military officer eg a two star officer like General Ishola Williams. It's a Northern culture adopted countrywide by the military to show respect to elders or bosses . 
>> A young Igbo man in his mid 30s once told me that he learned how to respect elders when he came to secondary school in Lagos and that in the East respect is accorded to people based to wealth hence everybody around him looks for money desperately. Ms Onyeka Onwenu was bred largely in Lagos; it's unlikely she would restrict herself to only Igbo traditions and culture. As you probably aware, Dr Mike Adenuga(  in his early 60s ) perhaps is the richest Yoruba man around today, it's impossible for him to address an older man of say in his 70s by name or talk rudely to such person except they engage in a very serious quarrel. 
>> In the UK, China and Japan and many other civilized countries, you have to curtsey or kowtow when meeting important people, like the Queens, Kings and other leaders.  I hope our brothers and sisters who haven't adopted this culture - which is common among all Africans - should try to borrow a leaf from others as it promotes orderliness and organized structure which wasn't in place in some part of Nigeria when Lord Lugard took over the control of the country over a century ago .  
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 13:35, Nebuka...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Vin Modebelu,
>> You should have included that Onyeka Onwenu idolatrous picture too. I would starve to death than conduct myself in any of this shameful obsequiousness. Just imagine a whole governor of a state sitting on a dirty floor upon which shoes, possibly stepped on human and animal feces, were stepped on a few minutes prior, just to defer to a wealthy former Vice President of Nigeria? That pathetic symbolism is that of Atiku Abubakar standing on the entire people of Adamawa state. Tufiakwa!
>>  
>> With respect to Tinubu, much is not wrong with his mien, he was just acknowledging the current status of president Buhari by bending his head for him. There is nothing wrong in so doing -- former president Clinton did it for president Obama after giving a speech at the last Democratic Party's National Convention (Obama will do similarly for his successor); former president Obasanjo did so for then sitting president Jonathan and now sitting president Buhari. Granted that Tinubu bowed too low, he is still within a reasonable conduct -- he was sort of ushering the president into his new status; it is officially acceptable from former leaders.
>>  
>> Onyeka Onwenu deserves to be fined by Ndi Igbo for her depraved worshiping of her fellow human being, something frowned upon by Igbo culture -- that picture cannot escape my memory and it galls me steadily. 
>>  
>> As for the stupid governors who are bowing to Obas, in a republican democratic nation, they are subjecting their mandates to these Obas' superiority. Ironically, the Nigerian constitution makes the Obas inferior to governors who can query and even remove them from their thrones. But most of these governors were either 'money missed roads' or intellectual nobodies before becoming governors, so they still suffer the inferiority complex of not recognizing the implications of their positions or of their obsequious actions. This is why a confederation is better for Nigeria, so that folks can worship their fellow human beings without such conduct chagrining others of the same country.   
>>  

>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/14f9021054f-3a17-11930%40webprd-m95.mail.aol.com.

[Wilson Iguade]

First, since when joke to me is joke to anyone else, including Vin? I just cannot stop out of frustration telling Vin not to be an IDIOT by speaking for me or anyone else. How many times have I told this buffoon (vin) to speak for HIMSELF. To me, it is a JOKE, whether intended as such or not. Full stop. 

Second, VC Aluko, I now understand that you did not intend it as a joke, and Vin did not see it as a joke. That I understand. 

No worries! I repeat - "Dada and Rastafarian, Hehehehehe!"

Next time I see a Rastafarian I go sey "Dada" what's up, dude! Hehehehe! 

God bless. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

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[Afis 'Deinde]

I call it "cross pollination"........from West to East. We don't have similarities, it is cross pollination!

Igbos come to Lagos and carry our custom back to Igboland.

Igbos now do yamayama version of Owambe. 

A woman who was married to an Igbo, once came back from the burial of her husband, her forehead had red blotches and bumps.

When She was asked what happened to her forehead, she begun to cry.

We later heard the full story.

Apparently, her in-laws wanted to show the Lagosians they too "open-eye", so they indulged in "spraying" Naira. 

With fingers and hands so hard and calloused they pressed Naira on their guests foreheads in the Imanjakiri way.

Some of us asked why they couldn't tell their igbo hosts to stop pinching their foreheads with Naira. 

The woman cried harder.

Apparently at a point in the Docudrama, she was physically running from her in-laws Owambe pains. But as she ran, they ran after her thinking that was part of Yoruba customs.

The igbo hosts would chased her down the dancing floor, held her head and stuck Naira on her blotched forehead.

She later vowed never to ever invite her Igbo in-laws to any Owambe in the nearest future.

As the woman cried, she said "upon all their chasing me, na one one Naira dem dey spray ooooo". Then she cried some more.

Anyway, it could be true!

Shikena,
Afis
Sent from my iPad

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/14f9021054f-3a17-11930%40webprd-m95.mail.aol.com.

[Vin Otuonye]

Iguade:

How old are you again?  You said you're in your mid 50s but your reasoning and behavior is so juvenile.  It is so childish that honestly you should get out of this forum and join the juvenile chat groups. You are such an imbecile that you don't know when to lie low and when to act with measured adult response.  Let me give you an example.  And for goodness sake I hate this example but I'll give it anyway.  Some couple of days ago, JUI jokingly asked you to take an advertisement in the ANOG brochure honoring him. He jokingly asked you to take an add congratulating him. You went berserk and cursed him out. You raved, raved and raved. I said oh my goodness,  how immature,  how juvenile,  how childish can a supposedly grown man be.

Just yesterday or so when you realized your childishness and immaturity,  you socked up. You told him (JUI) to ask those that have congratulated him, people like Ola Kassim and Co to take the ad. And because he doesn't want any fight with you,  he thanked you. But the harm has already been done. You are immature. You are childish.  You are a juvenile. 

 Listen,  MF, if you don't want me or anyone to respond to your post, don't post anything, MF. Join the juvenile egroups.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------

From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
Date:09/02/2015 6:34 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, Nigerian ID <Niger...@yahoogroups.com>, develop...@googlegroups.com, Naija Politics <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com, Raay...@yahoogroups.com, Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>, Wharfery Snake <wharf...@yahoo.com>, Nebuka...@aol.com, alu...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

First, since when joke to me is joke to anyone else, including Vin? I just cannot stop out of frustration telling Vin not to be an IDIOT by speaking for me or anyone else. How many times have I told this buffoon (vin) to speak for HIMSELF. To me, it is a JOKE, whether intended as such or not. Full stop. 

Second, VC Aluko, I now understand that you did not intend it as a joke, and Vin did not see it as a joke. That I understand. 

No worries! I repeat - "Dada and Rastafarian, Hehehehehe!"

Next time I see a Rastafarian I go sey "Dada" what's up, dude! Hehehehe! 

God bless. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2015, at 5:17 PM, "Joseph Igietseme" <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

”””But I may be wrong;  I have been known to be episodically wrong.”””……….Unquote VC-B!

Hahaha…………..even in Edo, the Rasta-like isi child is called Dada! We have them in my family; JUI almost became “Dada” sef…………hehehe!

This Nebu’s statement almost made JUI to fall from his chair: “””Ishi dada comes naturally on a person wearing it upon birth. It is never to be shaved until the gods say so, usually at the wearer's teenage to adulthood years. Most ishi dadas are spiritualists, just like your grandfather minus his blood ingesting and fear instilling on the populace of his ear. If professor Nwakanma is an ishi dada wearer, you'd better respect him -- people that powerful can point a finger at you [VC Bolaji] and you [VC-B] will miss a tooth instantly.”””

Wallahi, the next time JUI sees VC Bolaji, he will check his 32 teeth very well for completion……Hahaha! Naijas na wa!!! Take care. JUI
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: africanw...@googlegroups.com [mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mobolaji Aluko
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 5:42 PM
> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com

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[Afis 'Deinde]

"Iguade: (ie. Wilson Iguana).......How old are you again?  You said you're in your mid 50s but your reasoning and behavior is so juvenile.  It is so childish that honestly you should get out of this forum and join the juvenile chat groups. You are such an imbecile that you don't know when to lie low and when to act with measured adult response.  Let me give you an example.  And for goodness sake I hate this example but I'll give it anyway.  Some couple of days ago, JUI jokingly asked you to take an advertisement in the ANOG brochure honoring him. He jokingly asked you to take an add congratulating him. You went berserk and cursed him out. You raved, raved and raved. I said oh my goodness,  how immature,  how juvenile,  how childish can a supposedly grown man be. 

Just yesterday or so when you realized your childishness and immaturity,  you socked up. You told him (JUI) to ask those that have congratulated him, people like Ola Kassim and Co to take the ad. And because he doesn't want any fight with you,  he thanked you. But the harm has already been done. You are immature. You are childish.  You are a juvenile. 

 Listen,  MF, if you don't want me or anyone to respond to your post, don't post anything, MF. Join the juvenile egroups.".....by Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Shikena

Afis
Sent from my iPad

[Joseph Igietseme]

Hahahaha............as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. JUI is still learning patience!!! Hahaha....! Take care. JUI

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[Collins Ezebuihe]

Mazi Aduba:
 
You are addressing Ola Kassim, who is just a conventional thinker. If he does not know that even a Mother may not always know the true paternity of her child --even as Ola is a Medical Practitioner-- stop wasting your time with him.
 
Clearly, you now know why I continue to maintain that Ola and Joseph are very conventional people. Need I show more proof of that, than just point at Kassim's words that you paraphrased --not to talk of his French?
 
Ihemkwa/Tufiakwa!!
 
Colly.  

 

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From: NigerianI...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 20:59:05 -0400
Subject: NigerianID | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

 

Mr. Kassim,

You wrote:

As the saying goes, only the mother knew the true
the paternal origin of her child until the invention of
paternity laboratory tests.

The mother even does not always know the paternity  of her child. You must have read of a set of twins, one black and the other white. It was explained that the mother of the twins had had sex with a black man and a white man on the same day and both fertilized her eggs. Before the birth she could have pointed to any of the men as the father of her child but as we learned later it was both. It is just as possible that it could have been none.

 

Only DNA test can conclusively prove who is responsible.

 

Aduba

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[Wilson Iguade]

Hehehe!.......as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. Iguade is still learning patience!!! Hehehe....! Stay tuned. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/BLU176-W3159ABCAEB170C4E637037B3680%40phx.gbl.

[Joseph Igietseme]

"""""Let me give you an example.  And for goodness sake I hate this example but I'll give it anyway.  Some couple of days ago, JUI jokingly asked you to take an advertisement in the ANOG brochure honoring him. He jokingly asked you to take an add congratulating him. You went berserk and cursed him out. You raved, raved and raved. I said oh my goodness,  ..................Just yesterday or so..........  you socked up. You told him (JUI) to ask those that have congratulated him, people like Ola Kassim and Co to take the ad. And because he doesn't want any fight with you,  he thanked you. But the harm has already been done...................... """..........Unquote Vin!

Hahahaha.........Na wa for whalla in Naija oooo! JUI [having a Bellyful Laugh]

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

 

Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni, Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik.

 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/COL403-EAS23448701B8AB1F4F680E8FBD4680%40phx.gbl.

[Vin Otuonye]

Collins & Aduba:

You're both right. However,  there are some here that don't even think. They just open their mouths and spew rubbish. 

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
Date:09/03/2015 1:01 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com

[Vin Otuonye]

Ayo:

Get over it. Zik is just like me - born and bred outside Igbo land. If we're talking about one with knowledge of Igbo tradition and culture,  surely you don't come to me or Zik. But you see how deceitful you are? Last night it was Biafra soldiers raping Mid West (and by the way Yoruba also) girls and women.  Today it is Zik bowing to the Ooni of Ife. Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni? It is because Yoruba people have taken respect too far that no Yoruba person in this forum has the gut to call you to order. They close their eyes and allow an elder to act childish in public. But I see you're not alone. You have company with those in their mid 50s.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------

From: 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Date:09/03/2015 2:38 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
Cc: badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, pach...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni, Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:01 AM

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[Wilson Iguade]

Iguade wants to thank Joseph Igietseme for drafting below and it use by Iguade.

It is so appropriate to repeat after Obi Nwakanma and his Rastafarian bandwagon have been busted with Zik's photo bowing to greet. Based on Obi Nwakanma RETORT (spewing nonsense, as we call am correctly before this photo evidence blowing "HOT AIR".  Hehehe! - Zik must be SUB-HUMAN in Igbo culture according to the Spiritual Leader of the Igbos in the fora OBI NWAKANMA (Ratafarian) 

Back to JUI's appropriate retort "... as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. Iguade is still learning patience!!! Hehehe....! Lololo. 

Stay tuned. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

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[Wilson Iguade]

Why did Joe Igietseme NOT joking ASK those (VC Aluko, Joe Attueyi, and Dr. Kasdim, for example) ALREADY in support of his award to place an Ad for his award? 

Is it due to the fact that Joe Igietseme is a "conventional" thinker and was looking for Iguade's trouble, which he got, hence the somewhat or half ass correct post below - to which this REBUTTAL is necessary!!!

There you go! Stay tuned! Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

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[Wilson Iguade]

Ayo,

Please DO NOT get over it, telling the TRUTH no matter who gives a damn! 

Also, you are in great company with those in their mid 50s, and there is no deception being in the company of greatness! 

Stay tuned ya'all. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

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[Vin Otuonye]

Obi Nwakanma made it clear in his writing what the Igbo practice is. Igbo don't bow or prostrate. However,  he also stated that it doesn't mean that generality of Igbo engage in that practice, especially when we talk about the great majority of Igbo born and raised outside Igbo land who truly don't understand Igbo culture.Some great Nigerian and Igbo son's and daughters were born and raised outside Igbo land. 

Nigeria and Igbo greats like Zik, Ojukwu and Nze Ogwuaga were born, bred and raised outside Igbo land. In fact with people like Ojukwu,  it wasn't until mid 60s, just before the beginning of the civil war,  that he was educated and taught the Igbo culture and world view. So let these juvenile mongers look for better things to do. 

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------

From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
Date:09/03/2015 6:25 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, Esan Forum <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>, badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, pach...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Iguade wants to thank Joseph Igietseme for drafting below and it use by Iguade.

It is so appropriate to repeat after Obi Nwakanma and his Rastafarian bandwagon have been busted with Zik's photo bowing to greet. Based on Obi Nwakanma RETORT (spewing nonsense, as we call am correctly before this photo evidence blowing "HOT AIR".  Hehehe! - Zik must be SUB-HUMAN in Igbo culture according to the Spiritual Leader of the Igbos in the fora OBI NWAKANMA (Ratafarian) 

Back to JUI's appropriate retort "... as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. Iguade is still learning patience!!! Hehehe....! Lololo. 

Stay tuned. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/COL403-EAS1769DE733319BC77F20CA7ED4680%40phx.gbl.

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Vin:

Ayo Ojutalayo has done it again - brought out an incontrovertible picture of the Great ZiK of Africa respectfully and rightly bowing before the Ooni of Ife - with Obi Nwakanma in the picture (he is the one to the right of the Ooni Ojutalayo could not recognize,  smiling approvingly :-)?)

Lookia, Vin: last week or two, I watched in full display on NTA the Ofala (New Yam) Festival of the Onitsha people, and saw the display of respect and bowing/prostrating obeisance that was paid to the Obi of Onitsha by his subjects/citizens. (The Obi was my former Shell quarters chess partner Obi Achebe.) If ZiK and yourself were "born and bred outside Igboland", are all the Onitsha people too so outerly bred?

Abeg, ye'm efe! Too many of you harrumph boorishbess, and confuse it with prideful self-esteem. It doesn't even come out as arrogance but childish boorishness.

Thank you bo, Ayo. I am sure there are pictures on that same day showing Awo and Sardauna - and even Nwakanma Rex Marinus el-Dada - the Forrest Gump of Nigerian politics - bowing to the Ooni.

And there you have it!


Bolaji Aluko
Having a belly laugh

On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com> wrote:
> Ayo:
> Get over it. Zik is just like me - born and bred outside Igbo land. If we're talking about one with knowledge of Igbo tradition and culture,  surely you don't come to me or Zik. But you see how deceitful you are? Last night it was Biafra soldiers raping Mid West (and by the way Yoruba also) girls and women.  Today it is Zik bowing to the Ooni of Ife. Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni? It is because Yoruba people have taken respect too far that no Yoruba person in this forum has the gut to call you to order. They close their eyes and allow an elder to act childish in public. But I see you're not alone. You have company with those in their mid 50s.
> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
> Date:09/03/2015 2:38 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, pach...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
>

> <https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wec0HPlaeX25WhBZu6vFLZd4SwrBIX45m3yrvofw6XYMtQ6bNFmssgZz5GpIPwUS2bKktdUfQhmzfiL1FSYNeH_xXtHNx67u5XvQXyYL-3E40kO0xVhDFWp_4f9MOuz-M20q9KnUcWyquCV6DEM6viUMO8SmFL3kK0nY30e8SXg=s0-d-e1-ft#https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRek9AaWWddLS2f_px_rVUpj4yPrjnXgDthJS0TdpjFg5Uy_1hNQA>

[Rex Marinus]

Ayo, the picture I see is Zik shaking hands with the Ooni, each man slightly stooping to the other. You, Ayo, will not shake the Ooni's hand. But take particular note of the man beside Zik, M.I. Okpara, looking at it all with interest. He does not stoop. What Azikiwe does, if you pay closer attention, is the Ogboni greeting to another Ogboni man, and it is all political theatre.

Obi Nwakanma

---

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:37:36 +0000
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com
CC: badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; alu...@gmail.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com

Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[Vin Otuonye]

Imperial:
 
And Zik was born and raised in Onitsha, right? You talk of the culture of Onitsha people - with long history of organized leadership and its closeness to Edo and Yoruba, right? Let me ask you: Did the British Indirect Rule System work in Onitsha? We know that Indirect Rule System worked in the North and the West. Why didn't the Indirect Rule System work in the East, including Onitsha?
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

---

Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
From: imperi...@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 11:57:18 +0100
CC: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; alu...@gmail.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com
To: Vincent...@msn.com

Is there any marked difference between bowing and prostrating ? Our entire discussion bothers of respecting the elders, Kings, Queens and other in authority. Whether you do it by bowing  or prostrating it doesn't matter .

Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe ( the late Owelle of Onitsha)  wasn't a typical Igbo man. The culture of Onitsha people - with long history of organized leadership - is closer to Edo and Yoruba people than to regular the Igbos . 

Sent from my iPad

[Vin Otuonye]

Aluko:
 
Don't confuse things. I have no problem showing and giving respect to an elder. It has nothing to do with any prideful self-esteem. But understand that respect, even when you give it to elders, is earned. I don't throw respect to a juvenile fool on account that he's older. I was not around during the time of Ooni Adesoji Aderemi but looking at that picture, he seemed to me like one who carried his office or authority with respect. But honestly, I don't know if I can say the same about the late Ooni, Sijuade. To me Ooni Sijuade was pompous and arrogant. But honestly, that is another topic for another day. BTW, did you seem Michael Okpara next to Zik. Michael Okpara was the typical Igbo born and bred with Igbo culture and tradition.
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

---

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:09:46 +0100
Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
From: alu...@gmail.com
To: Vincent...@msn.com
CC: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com

[Wharf A. Snake]

Methinks that Imperial is more ignorant than Ayo. Just my two cents.

Sent from my iPhone

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

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[DIPO ENIOLA]

There are two many Igbo boys in the forum that have taken the art of lying and ignorance to a great height. What I do know is that when I visit my in-laws in Ohafia, scores of men and women bow to greet me.The women in particular have learned to kneel down when greeting me. They call me Big Oga Dipo. 

Chief Zik knew culture. He was a cultured man unlike the many efulefu Igbo punks running their mouths in the forum. I cannot imaging a situation whereby  Vin Pretty Boy Otuonye will call me by my first name without being disciplined. Respect for elders is one of the center pieces of African culture.

Now, I want Vin or wharf to explain to me the following Igbo saying: Nwata kwozie aka, ya eroro ogaranya rie nri.

The Oha 1

Ahu Nze, Ebie Okwu

---

From: Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com>
To: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Esan Forum <esan_co...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:53 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[afis]

 Vin Otuonye, this is really embarrassing to Igbos.

Where's my main men, Wharfy?

Hehe.....I can't even laff.

Shikena

afis

---

From: Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com>
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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:17 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
 

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[afis]

Vin Otuonye, you see why you call yourself "Olodo"?

Zik was seen bowing to greet a King, you are now talking foolishly.

So, if you visit Queen of England you won't bow, and a woman won't bend at the knee? 

Then you foolishly try to move the soccer post to fit your banana shot.  Why don't you bring out Okpara's picture at the same event showing he did not bow?

You are a lawyer, you mouthing don't bring out any doubts unless you show us some counter-picture.

Shikena

afis

 

---

From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
Cc: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:55 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[afis]

 Obi Nwakanma, even for you, your rationalization is Idiotic.

Shikena

afis
 

---

From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:27 AM
Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/SNT147-W15FFF486029BC28C796E6BDF680%40phx.gbl.

[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

Folks:

 

The essence in the mind of the one who posted that photo of the Great Zik in salutation exchanges with the Oni of Ife, Oba Adesoji Aderemi is to prove or show that bowing is not a taboo in Igbo culture. Well, what I see in the photo is the Great Zik stooping his towering height to a firm handshake with the Oba and the Oba slightly bending forward to accept his hand in greeting.

 

In the photo, seeing the broad smiles on the faces of Awo and Akintola tells one Zik’s gesture seemed what they did not expect and it pleasantly surprised them. Those arguing whether the Great Zik was “bowing” to the Oba or not should know this. Zik was a traditionalist who revered Traditional Institutions and cultural etiquettes. He suffered not so easily anyone that showed disregards for traditions and culture, especially, when it applied to elders and authority figures. His reverence for Traditional Institutions and Culture, including his acceptance of the Protocols of the Elders was made obvious in his acceptance of the Onitsha Traditional Institutions titles; such as, being a Member of the Red Cap Chiefs, the Agbalanze Society, the Onowu of Onitsha, etc., and a willing ear to the then Obi of Onitsha on issues and cases on traditional and cultural events. Was it not always a thrill to behold the towering figure of the Great Zik in Onitsha Ndi-Ichie attire dance with relish in public the Ofo-Ala Festival.

 

So, the Great Zik in the photo displayed traditional and cultural mien in his exchange of pleasantries with the Ooni, Oba Adesoji Aderemi. Besides, it must be remembered that Oba Adesoji Aderemi was quite an Elder in age to the Great Zik. Also, remember that Zik spent most of his growing up years in Yoruba land and among Yorubas as well as, his business and political life years. His children’s middle names were Yoruba names. Yes, that is true of the Great Zik the one and only true Nigerian Nationalist of his time.

 

Cheers.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

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CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com

>> Cc: vin_mo...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; pach...@yahoo.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk

---

 

--

.

__,_._,___

 

[Wilson Iguade]

Quote

Ayo Ojutalayo has done it again - brought out an incontrovertible picture of the Great ZiK of Africa respectfully and rightly bowing before the Ooni of Ife - with Obi Nwakanma in the picture (he is the one to the right of the Ooni Ojutalayo could not recognize,  smiling approvingly :-)?)

Unquote

Hehehehe! Now we know according to Obi Nwakanma that Zik in all his greatness is SUB-HUMAN for slight BOW to Ooni of Ife. Lololo!

Did we not say that Obi Nwakanma is quintessential HOT AIR, all talk (grammar, big big grammar) with no breeze for yansh! The dude could not even fart if his life depends on it right now. Liar liar pant on fire! 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Wilson Iguade]

Quote

Chief Zik knew culture. He was a cultured man unlike the many efulefu Igbo punks running their mouths in the forum. 

Unquote

Hmmmmmmm! Would one of those punks happen to be Obi Nwakanma, the Rastafarian on the block?

Just asking or abi na "saying", hehehe!

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/1159480518.975272.1441292252244.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Imperial,

Thanks for yours below. The purpose of my posting the picture was to debunk Obi Nwakanma's "Igbo does not do this, Igbo does not do that". He did not say that "Some areas in Igbo land don't do this or that". Note that two days ago, I highlighted another Igbo saying Igbo brides in his area kneel to give drinks to bridegroom. This was after Obi had told us "Igbo does not kneel for another human being". I noticed that Obi and his kind are already trying to "explain" what happens in the photograph (Zik bowing to Ooni) we can all see with our korokoro eyes (I thought they say photographs don't lie!). 

Does one need to say that Obi Nwakanma lacks credibility? He deliberately misinforms us on the forums in an attempt to present Igbo culture, Igbo tradition and Nigerian history (as it relates to Igbo) the way he wants us to believe and not the way they are. Did you read Ben Aduba saying he wished he had 10% of Obi Nwakanma's knowledge? Ben is much older than Obi. He therefore must be aware that Obi is not being truthful in what he writes. Another person that does what Obi does is Nebu. Nebu said the Constitution does not say Ministers should be appointed from every State, that it is laziness that makes people to say the Constitution says so. When the relevant sections of the Constitution was posted to show that he was wrong, he did not apologize because he knew he was lying when he said what he said. Yorubas have a saying to the effect that a long story is usually laced with lies. Note how Obi and Nebu use 1000 words to communicate what can conveniently be communicated with less than 500 words. Obi is said to be an academician. Gone are those days when we used to take whatever an academician wrote to bank.

Let's go back to enjoy how the photograph of Zik bowing to Ooni continues to be spinned!

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>
To: Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:23 AM
Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Prince Ojutalayo,

Please don't be surprised my brother.  Onitsha people are cultured differently from other Igbos. Kindly remember that Zik was from Onitsha, a town which has longer history of leadership and organized structure than most parts of Igbo land. 

Sent from my iPad

[Vin Otuonye]

Dipo:
 
Are you saying I don't know culture? Ok, I am not going to call you egbon again. I'll start calling you elemu. How about that for culture?
 
Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
 

---

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:57:32 +0000
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Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni?" . . . . Vin Otuonye

Vin, 

I don't know the relevance of this question. Zik did not need to prostrate to Ooni in public to show respect to Ooni. Did you not read where I said how Zik was greeting Ooni was " exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public"?

I have told you many times, your Igbo brothers bring up these issues. I only debunk their lies. If you guys stop lying, I will not need to write as often as I write. 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com>
To: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:17 AM

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/BAY407-EAS6980B991084F53F23AFCE3DB680%40phx.gbl.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"Ayo, the picture I see is Zik shaking hands with the Ooni, each man slightly stooping to the other." . . . Obi Nwakanma

Obi,

The picture you are seeing must be different from the one I posted. What is the relevance of your "You, Ayo will not shake the Ooni's hand"? Did you not read me saying the way Zik greeted Ooni was exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public?

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; Igbo Events <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; "igbowor...@yahoogroups.com" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:27 AM

Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/SNT147-W15FFF486029BC28C796E6BDF680%40phx.gbl.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"Ayo, the picture I see is Zik shaking hands with the Ooni, each man slightly stooping to the other." . . . Obi Nwakanma

Obi,

The picture you are seeing must be different from the one I posted. What is the relevance of your "You, Ayo will not shake the Ooni's hand"? Did you not read me saying the way Zik greeted Ooni was exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public?

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Rex Marinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; Igbo Events <igboe...@yahoogroups.com>; "igbowor...@yahoogroups.com" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:27 AM

Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/SNT147-W15FFF486029BC28C796E6BDF680%40phx.gbl.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

[Wharf A. Snake]

"Nwata kwozie aka, ya eroro ogaranya rie nri."

Ogbeni Oha :

I don't understand the above. Which dialect is that or did you copy wrongly what you were sent?

Sent from my iPhone

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

“This photo has contracted the widely held belief that all Igbos are unruly and uncultured...” Unknown Identity

 

It’s all in your mind and that of a few of your ilk. Otherwise, no view of such about the Igbo of my prideful heritage is held “widely” or in whichever measure. Get it, the Igbo will outlive all of you that hate them. You can take that to the bank. After all, hate destroys the hater than it does the hated.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

From: Imperial [mailto:imperi...@yahoo.com]
Sent: September-03-15 12:08 PM
To: afis
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; Mobolaji Aluko; Obi Nwakama; badu...@aol.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; Nebu; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; Abraham Madu; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; Asagwara, Ken (EAL); Peter Opara; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; Ozodi Osuji
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

The incontrovertible evidence presented by Prince Ayo Ojutalayo has sealed the entire argument.  Zik of Africa was the greatest Igbo man known to history so his sayings and deeds should be reference point to all discerning Igbo people around the world . This photo has contracted the widely held belief that all Igbos are unruly and uncultured ; it also lends credence to another  historical facts that there is a form of cultural linkage  between the Onitsha people , Edo people and Yoruba people . 

 

NEBU please surrender ! 

Sent from my iPad

[DIPO ENIOLA]

Vin Pretty Boy Otuonye of Orlu:

Of course, in cyberspace you can take advantage of the faceless nature of cyberspace to run your mouth as you wish. But I know you will not be that petulant to misbehave in my presence. Even, Chuks Agwunobi of Ugba Junction knows how to behave when in my presence or over the phone. Same for Wharf The Snake of Orlu. They are always ever so cautious and respectful when talking to me on the phone.

But you and other Igbo punks, especially KC Asagwara, should know this about Dipo, The Oha 1....Oji obi ocha aru oru ya.  Dipo o bughi ony aghegho.

The Oha 1

Ahu Nze Ebie Okwu

---

From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:45 PM
Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/BAY176-W219639D5798EC3F0D15256DB680%40phx.gbl.

[Vin Otuonye]

Agwo Nwana:

Don’t mind elemu Dipo.  He meant to write Nwata sa (kwozie) aka,  ya esoro ogaranya rie nri. If a child wash his hand, he can/will eat with a wealthy man.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: "'Wharf A. Snake' via NaijaEvent" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Date:09/03/2015 1:12 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
Cc: naija...@googlegroups.com, africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>, badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

"Nwata kwozie aka, ya eroro ogaranya rie nri."

Ogbeni Oha :

I don't understand the above. Which dialect is that or did you copy wrongly what you were sent?

Sent from my iPhone

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

[Philip Achusim]

This picture does not tell the full story. Look at the Ooni. He was leaning too. And what was not shown was where the two embraced and had a hearty laugh about how Awolowo, Akintola and Balewa were in a trance as they watched Zik and Ooni do their thing. Listen. The key is the knee. You either bend the knee or kneel down. Zik's knees were not bent, nor was he kneeling. It was the Ooni, from his looks, who was enthralled to meet Zik. As Odi-Isaa, if I don't see those knees bent or the guy kneeling, I will not extend my hands to greet the sucker. But if you notice, Ooni was anxious to exchange greetings with Zik he dared not expect Zik to bend his knees or kneel. To get married to a lady, Yoruba folks do more than kneel or bend their knees. They fall flat on the bellies to beg. If they can fall flat on the bellies to beg a girl to marry them as Ayo and Afis and all the other usual suspects did when they got married, you can imagine what Awolowo and Akintola did when they greeted Ooni. Yes. They were on their knees. I have that photograph, and I will publish it if I can find it. People who fall flat on their bellies to beg a girl to marry them kneel when they greet Ooni. But Zik neither knelt nor bend his knees. Iyasikwa. And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 11:42:38 AM, Ayo Ojutalayo wrote:

Imperial, Thanks for yours below. The purpose of my posting the picture was to debunk Obi Nwakanma's "Igbo does not do this, Igbo does not do that". He did not say that "Some areas in Igbo land don't do this or that". Note that two days ago, I highlighted another Igbo saying Igbo brides in his area kneel to give drinks to bridegroom. This was after Obi had told us "Igbo does not kneel for another human being". I noticed that Obi and his kind are already trying to "explain" what happens in the photograph (Zik bowing to Ooni) we can all see with our korokoro eyes (I thought they say photographs don't lie!). Does one need to say that Obi Nwakanma lacks credibility? He deliberately misinforms us on the forums in an attempt to present Igbo culture, Igbo tradition and Nigerian history (as it relates to Igbo) the way he wants us to believe and not the way they are. Did you read Ben Aduba saying he wished he had 10% of Obi Nwakanma's knowledge? Ben is much older than Obi. He therefore must be aware that Obi is not being truthful in what he writes. Another person that does what Obi does is Nebu. Nebu said the Constitution does not say Ministers should be appointed from every State, that it is laziness that makes people to say the Constitution says so. When the relevant sections of the Constitution was posted to show that he was wrong, he did not apologize because he knew he was lying when he said what he said. Yorubas have a saying to the effect that a long story is usually laced with lies. Note how Obi and Nebu use 1000 words to communicate what can conveniently be communicated with less than 500 words. Obi is said to be an academician. Gone are those days when we used to take whatever an academician wrote to bank. Let's go back to enjoy how the photograph of Zik bowing to Ooni continues to be spinned! Ayo Ojutalayo “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Imperial To: Ayo Ojutalayo Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" ; Obi Nwakama ; "badu...@aol.com" ; "odide...@gmail.com" ; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" ; B o l a j i A l u k o ; Nebu ; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" ; "wharf...@yahoo.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" ; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" ; "pach...@yahoo.com" ; "adung...@yahoo.com" ; "stda...@gmail.com" ; "nationa...@yahoo.com" ; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" ; Abraham Madu ; "topc...@yahoo.com" ; "yemif...@gmail.com" ; "femmy...@yahoo.com" ; "therea...@yahoo.com" ; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" ; "petercl...@yahoo.com" ; "ejan...@yahoo.com" ; "guka...@comcast.net" ; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" ; Peter Opara ; "aim.s...@gmail.com" ; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" ; "rexma...@hotmail.com" ; Ozodi Osuji

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"To me Ooni Sijuade was pompous and arrogant." . . . Vin Otuonye

It is this type of statement that made the Texas Doctor to say what he said, and you people said he asked for genocide against Ndigbo. Even if you don't respect elders in your culture (Ooni Sijuwade was 85 and you are probably half his age), for an African to say this about an African traditional ruler show nothing but lack of good up bringing.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
Cc: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:55 AM

Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[davi...@att.net]

That is 100% correct. Now can we move to better topics that deal with our collective concerns as Nigerians. 

Dav Iloani

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/BAY407-EAS421D8C6F789AEC8B10E6B8CDB680%40phx.gbl.

[DIPO ENIOLA]

Ejo:

Of course, you could NOT understand it because you are a Mushin born Igbo. You only come to cyberspace to show your Igbo bona fides; so that the likes of Dan Akusobi, a true Igbo son would fully accept you. Do you know that till today, the Orlu people of Atlanta have NOT  fully accepted Vin Otuonye as a true Igbo son? Whenever, they wanted to discuss something crucial, they sidelined him. The general perception is that he is Yoruba.

The Oha 1

Ahu Nze, Ebie Okwu

From: 'Wharf A. Snake' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>

To: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
Cc: "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

When did saying or holding the view that someone is/was “pompous and arrogant” an insult or show of disrespect?

 

Some of you guys are something else. Perhaps, being a yes “massa” slave would have fitted you well.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/2117965552.1079814.1441301409957.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"Those arguing whether the Great Zik was “bowing” to the Oba or not should know this. Zik was a traditionalist who revered Traditional Institutions and cultural etiquettes. He suffered not so easily anyone that showed disregards for traditions and culture, especially, when it applied to elders and authority figures. His reverence for Traditional Institutions and Culture, including his acceptance of the Protocols of the Elders . . . . " . . . . Ken Asagwara 

Ken,

Thank you for being truthful in yours above. The purpose of the photograph is to show that Igbo is more cultured than people want us to believe. Igbo bows to show respect (the photograph), Igbo kneels to show respect (Dan Akusobi). Nebu wanting to crucify Onyeka Onwenu for kneeling for PMB, (which Nebu lied as abomination in Igbo culture) was therefore uncalled for. The same with Obi's academic fraud that Igbo does not bow to another human being. If Zik could bow to another human being, who is Obi and who is Nebu to come to the public space to say Igbo does not bow? 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: "Asagwara, Ken (EAL)" <Ken.As...@gov.mb.ca>
To: 'afis' <odide...@yahoo.com>; "'africanw...@googlegroups.com'" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "'nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com'" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; 'Obi Nwakama' <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "'talkn...@yahoogroups.com'" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Egbe' <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Naija Politics' <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "'badu...@aol.com'" <badu...@aol.com>; "'omo...@yahoogroups.com'" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; 'B o l a j i A l u k o' <alu...@gmail.com>; 'Nebu' <nebuka...@aol.com>; "'naijain...@googlegroups.com'" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "'wharf...@yahoo.com'" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "'imperi...@yahoo.com'" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "'nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com'" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "'vin_mo...@yahoo.com'" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "'pach...@yahoo.com'" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "'adung...@yahoo.com'" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "'stda...@gmail.com'" <stda...@gmail.com>; "'nationa...@yahoo.com'" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "'ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk'" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Abraham Madu' <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "'topc...@yahoo.com'" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "'yemif...@gmail.com'" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "'femmy...@yahoo.com'" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "'therea...@yahoo.com'" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "'ekuju...@yahoo.com'" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "'petercl...@yahoo.com'" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "'ejan...@yahoo.com'" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "'guka...@comcast.net'" <guka...@comcast.net>; 'Peter Opara' <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "'aim.s...@gmail.com'" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "'niger...@yahoogroups.com'" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "'rexma...@hotmail.com'" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; 'Ozodi Osuji' <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Ken,

If you don't see what is wrong in what Vin wrote, then you are as guilty as he is. Go back and re-read what I wrote. 

Vin calls me "idiot" almost every day for no just cause but I have never complained. If he says an Oba, Ooni for that matter, is pompous and arrogant, then he was not well brought up.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: "Asagwara, Ken (EAL)" <Ken.As...@gov.mb.ca>

To: "'africanw...@googlegroups.com'" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; 'Mobolaji Aluko' <alu...@gmail.com>; 'Vin Otuonye' <vincent...@msn.com>
Cc: 'Obi Nwakama' <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "'badu...@aol.com'" <badu...@aol.com>; "'odide...@gmail.com'" <odide...@gmail.com>; "'omo...@yahoogroups.com'" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; 'Nebu' <nebuka...@aol.com>; "'naijain...@googlegroups.com'" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "'wharf...@yahoo.com'" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "'imperi...@yahoo.com'" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "'nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com'" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "'vin_mo...@yahoo.com'" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; 'Ezeana Igirigi Achusim' <pach...@yahoo.com>; "'adung...@yahoo.com'" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "'stda...@gmail.com'" <stda...@gmail.com>; "'nationa...@yahoo.com'" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "'ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk'" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; 'Abraham Madu' <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "'topc...@yahoo.com'" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "'yemif...@gmail.com'" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "'femmy...@yahoo.com'" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "'therea...@yahoo.com'" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "'ekuju...@yahoo.com'" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "'petercl...@yahoo.com'" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "'ejan...@yahoo.com'" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "'guka...@comcast.net'" <guka...@comcast.net>; 'Peter Opara' <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "'aim.s...@gmail.com'" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "'niger...@yahoogroups.com'" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "'rexma...@hotmail.com'" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; 'Ozodi Osuji' <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:43 PM
Subject: RE: [africanworldforum] Vin's lack of good up bringing: RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/9C0F4ADFF6D7054098821AB120493FBF3D3B31F0%40OC1EX301.ME.MBGOV.CA.

[Rex Marinus]

Emma Onua: You may see different, and that is alright. The picture I see does say at least two things: (a) Azikiwe was shaking the hands of the Ooni in a very firm handshake, and (b) Azikiwe, at over 6 feet had to stoop to shake the hands of the Ooni, a much smaller man at 5.7. Usually, if you want to shake the hands of  even a child smaller than you, you do need to stoop out of regard, to their level; and the picture here is taken at an angle where, even the Ooni, from the angle of his body, also leans forward slightly to greet Zik. There is also implied here, two forms of exchanges: the normal salute among the Yoruba for their Kings is prostration. The normal salute the Igbo have, public or private, is to shake hands. There is an exchange of handshakes . That is the exchange that is taking place in this picture, and there's much mountain made of the molehill of Zik leaning forward in a  slight, respectful stoop to greet the Ooni.

In spite of what Dr. Aluko wrote, "ordinary" Yoruba men do not shake the hands of their monarchs. They lie flat on the ground, or in public, touch the ground first. Only the "powerful" Yoruba lke Awolowo, may shake the hands of their kings, but that only in public. "Commoners" will not dare. And in a society where there are kings and there are "commoners," the class system places boundaries of propriety on the vast population of "common" Yoruba people who are required to bow before their kings even in public. In Igbo culture, where there is no "king" or "commoner", just citizens (Diala), either in public, or in private, man or child, is required only to exchange handshakes. There is no private or public requirement for greetings. That is the critical difference. I'm certain that there are other pictures of public exchanges, between Zik and the Ooni, and it might be worthwhile to bring those out to show a pattern of greeting that shows Azikiwe bowing, that is not distorted by the angle of photography.

Obi Nwakanma

---

To: IgboE...@yahoogroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com
CC: badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; alu...@gmail.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; ozodi...@gmail.com
From: IgboE...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 08:38:36 -0400
Subject: [IgboEvents:Live] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

"Ayo, the picture I see is Zik shaking hands with the Ooni, each man slightly stooping to the other" - Nwakama.

 

Not true.

 

Zik bowed to greet the Ooni, and the Ooni was not bowing in return.

 

And it does not look like an Ogboni greeting (not that I know what that looks like, but I know a bowed "greeter" and an unbowed "greetee" when I see them).

 

And BTW: ndi-Igbo from my area of Anambra State bow to greet eminent people.

 

Ndi-Igbo clasp the hand of an eminent personality with both hands (if the "greeter" is an adult), or support their right hand at the elbow with the left hand while shaking the hand of an eminent person (if much younger) as a show of respect.

 

I am Igbo through and through, and I know it to be a fact.

 

Local customs may vary, and I make allowance for that.  But it would be incorrect to present a universal picture of "Igbo greeting methodology" when one has not taken into account the nuances and variability of local customs and traditions within the Igbo nation.

 

Emma Onua

(Ozo Ezeude IV n'Abagana)

 

 

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2015 6:27 am
Subject: [IgboEvents:Live] RE: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Ayo, the picture I see is Zik shaking hands with the Ooni, each man slightly stooping to the other. You, Ayo, will not shake the Ooni's hand. But take particular note of the man beside Zik, M.I. Okpara, looking at it all with interest. He does not stoop. What Azikiwe does, if you pay closer attention, is the Ogboni greeting to another Ogboni man, and it is all political theatre.

Obi Nwakanma

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 06:37:36 +0000
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Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

>> Cc: vin_mo...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; pach...@yahoo.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; oyo-...@yahoogroups.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk

>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 8:39 PM
>> Subject: To Imperial: ||NaijaObserver||Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku
>>
>> Imperial,
>> I am not sure that you read what I wrote about Tinubu's bowing his head for Buhari (whether it was before or after his inauguration). Without repeating myself, let me just say that I found it acceptable -- you can read what I wrote a second time.
>>  

>> Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces).
>>  

>> As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer.
>>  

>> On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler.
>>  

>> That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others.
>>  

>> That Igbos worship moneyed folks is a recent phenomenon of the late 1980s to now. In Igbo land of my father's and of my childhood, a person without character, no matter how wealthy, was never respected. When we were children, dad would point to we-we (marijuana) smokers and alcoholics as derelicts unworthy of emulating. From an early age, I began to loathe weed smokers and alcoholics because they were never respected by our people. A thief, no matter how wealthy, was neither respected nor allowed to speak in any gathering of Igbos during my childhood. Yes, it is true that  wealthy people, even armed robbers and 419ners, command the most respect in Igbo land of today, but it was not always like that. Even though that is the norm now in Igbo land (most traditional leaders and politicians in Igbo of today are people who would have been shunned in Igboland of the 1970s and going backward), not every Igbo is in acceptance of that debauchery. I do not respect or associate with people without character or whose means of livelihood are not transparently honest. I have once told the story of backing out of chairing an Mbaise festival after I found out (about two weeks before the occasion) that a recently paroled 419ner had bought asoebi uniform for all the women and was sponsoring the occasion. I am not the only Igbo who rejects such associations.   
>>  

>> No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. 
>>  

>> Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a  people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century.
>>  
>>  

>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 6:52:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wharf...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Imperial my friend,
>> Was it Yoruba culture before the loss at Ilorin to the Fulani or after? Please back up with verifiable historical artifacts.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Imperial < imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nebu, 
>> Buhari wasn't president when the above photo with Bola Tinubu was taken but kindly note that it's part of Yoruba and northern culture for one to respect people who are older including the current and past leaders. That Bola Tinubu bowed to Buhari isn't strange to the majority of Yoruba people as it's our culture to respect elders . From all available records, Buhari was already our military head of state before Tinubu was appointed Treasurer of Mobil Oil Nigeria at Bookshop House,Lagos. If you were in his shoes,would you have acted otherwise ?  
>> During the military era in Nigeria, many state governors always sit on the carpet when meeting or talking to a superior or top military officer eg a two star officer like General Ishola Williams. It's a Northern culture adopted countrywide by the military to show respect to elders or bosses . 
>> A young Igbo man in his mid 30s once told me that he learned how to respect elders when he came to secondary school in Lagos and that in the East respect is accorded to people based to wealth hence everybody around him looks for money desperately. Ms Onyeka Onwenu was bred largely in Lagos; it's unlikely she would restrict herself to only Igbo traditions and culture. As you probably aware, Dr Mike Adenuga(  in his early 60s ) perhaps is the richest Yoruba man around today, it's impossible for him to address an older man of say in his 70s by name or talk rudely to such person except they engage in a very serious quarrel. 
>> In the UK, China and Japan and many other civilized countries, you have to curtsey or kowtow when meeting important people, like the Queens, Kings and other leaders.  I hope our brothers and sisters who haven't adopted this culture - which is common among all Africans - should try to borrow a leaf from others as it promotes orderliness and organized structure which wasn't in place in some part of Nigeria when Lord Lugard took over the control of the country over a century ago .  
>>

>> Sent from my iPad

>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 13:35, Nebuka...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Vin Modebelu,
>> You should have included that Onyeka Onwenu idolatrous picture too. I would starve to death than conduct myself in any of this shameful obsequiousness. Just imagine a whole governor of a state sitting on a dirty floor upon which shoes, possibly stepped on human and animal feces, were stepped on a few minutes prior, just to defer to a wealthy former Vice President of Nigeria? That pathetic symbolism is that of Atiku Abubakar standing on the entire people of Adamawa state. Tufiakwa!
>>  
>> With respect to Tinubu, much is not wrong with his mien, he was just acknowledging the current status of president Buhari by bending his head for him. There is nothing wrong in so doing -- former president Clinton did it for president Obama after giving a speech at the last Democratic Party's National Convention (Obama will do similarly for his successor); former president Obasanjo did so for then sitting president Jonathan and now sitting president Buhari. Granted that Tinubu bowed too low, he is still within a reasonable conduct -- he was sort of ushering the president into his new status; it is officially acceptable from former leaders.
>>  
>> Onyeka Onwenu deserves to be fined by Ndi Igbo for her depraved worshiping of her fellow human being, something frowned upon by Igbo culture -- that picture cannot escape my memory and it galls me steadily. 
>>  
>> As for the stupid governors who are bowing to Obas, in a republican democratic nation, they are subjecting their mandates to these Obas' superiority. Ironically, the Nigerian constitution makes the Obas inferior to governors who can query and even remove them from their thrones. But most of these governors were either 'money missed roads' or intellectual nobodies before becoming governors, so they still suffer the inferiority complex of not recognizing the implications of their positions or of their obsequious actions. This is why a confederation is better for Nigeria, so that folks can worship their fellow human beings without such conduct chagrining others of the same country.   
>>  

>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:00:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vin_mo...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> This is pure loyalty....for monies and lively hood.
>> The Governor had already appointed Atikus daughter as the Commissioner for health. Atiku now owns Adamawa.
>> the Obas sit on the floor for Asiwaju too. Asiwaju prostrates for Buhari
>> The Governors lie face down for the Obas .
>> Many humans lie face down in the streets for governors.
>> vin.....///
>> ....Born to tell the truth
>> ....they are listening indeed
>> ... thick walls will  fall
>> < https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/t8vEOGd56Jz3oT99_i5NimWqisjGHbpdnQ-nI73H0SKIscO_GAcmpi8pL66nTNcOWdYdZI2sdrVGPVaS0dIWrpMxdRF_czZMcSFk_YTzyyWULTgKX4Jz=s0-d-e1-ft#https://krazyinsidekenya.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wpid-001.jpg>
>>
>>
>> "Loyalty Or Culture"; Caption This Photo Of Adamawa State Governor Sitting On The Floor In Atiku's Presence
>>
>>  < https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cvMgx42_nw0/VeKzxal_WhI/AAAAAAAA8hA/BeTg3MI0mLQ/s400/vdef.jpg>
>>   
>> Adamawa state governor, Jibrila Bindow, pictured sitting on the floor at the residence of former vice president Atiku Abubakar. Is this a form of loyalty or just culture
>> http://www.nationalhelm.com/2015/08/loyalty-or-culture-caption-this-photo.html
>>
>> < https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ZLQFEh9VRKPNe_aI1gbn2Mshz4YTYgmiy531-Lx5fTepOZ5zR1hmZ7memrG_1cJ5TCFPIADQsIQGLnPA3c5ocCLFE_9781GIUfJw-UymCfYscp4VffhEWot_3df9Ixe2xYyTv6UvhEOu2SUx_Ps22w=s0-d-e1-ft#http://gist212.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0a7c24526228ddd924bd233c4ee0ba5f12a28332.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =
>>
>> --

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public." . . . . Ayo Ojutalayo

Ezeana,

Note the second of the two sentences above.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:27 PM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

Nwanna Nwa Achusim:

 

Ngbati, Ngbati people carry their so called respect to point of absurdity.

 

I remember playing GUITAR with this my Ngbati LOVER in Houston. Yes, you heard me right using the word LOVER because Ngbati ladies when they are involved in relationship with nice Igbo guys like me, they prefer you call each other’s LOVERS and not by names

 

They like calling each other’s LOVERS.

 

This my NGBATI LOVER is from EKITI with Master degree in Nursing, yellow, tall with figure 8 shape. Nwanna, you know I am a very greed guy with long throat when it comes to picking ladies.

 

I was the first man to show her what love is after so many disastrous relationships with two fucking Yeye Ngbati, Ngbati guys.

 

So it happened that we were playing GUITAR after drinking Champagne with this my Ngbati LOVER and as the Guitar was getting into our Medulla Oblongata, the phone rang.

 

Waoooo, who in the hell is this trying to disturb me, I said to myself? My EKITI Lover climbed down from the Bed; picked the phone and bent her kneels and said “Ekaro Egbon” [Good Morning brother]

 

I quickly dragged her back to the bed not because I don’t want her to greet or talk to her elder brother but for bending her Kneels while greeting her brother who will not know or see her bending her kneels.

 

I want her to be talking while I am doing and enjoying my GUITAR. I don’t play that nonsense with my GUITAR. She hanged the phone and said “CHUKWUMA, Orie Efo” [Chukwuma, your head no correct].

 

Ngbati people don’t know when to bend their fucking big heads and damn kneels.

 

Another example was a friend of my in Lagos, he had a Bucket of water on his head and while trying to bend his Fucking big Ngbati Owambe head to greet his dad, threw this bucket of water all over his dad who already dressed up to go to Owambe.

 

Another example was a lady who almost got killed bending her kneels to greet someone in heavy GO-SLOW at busy Oshodi Bus Stop. I saved her life that day by pushing her out of the way inside the gutter as Danfo was coming to her direction with fast speed.

 

Just tell me how Ngbati guys who are who are known for anti-Social behaviors with addiction and unquenchable appetites for Sugar Mummies 25-30 years older than them, will in one hand call such ladies or women  

 

Iya Bisi

 

Mama Dupe

 

Auntie Tosin” and in another hand is climbing the same “IYA BISI, MAMA DUPE, AUNTIE for hard core GUITAR.

 

Yeye people, I have told Ngbati people to stop telling us how morally bankrupt they are or I will keep exposing their cultures and traditions.

 

I wish ODUDUWAYO is alive today; I will give him everything he wants if he will agree to pack these Awufu lovers, extravagant spenders, lack of planning people and Sugar Mummy Lovers out of Nigeria and people like will not go through this nonsense with them.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

---

From: 'Philip Achusim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "ayooju...@yahoo.com" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/1441301234.72481.YahooMailIosMobile%40web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com.

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Ayo Ojutalayo:

I just cannot understand it. Pa Obi Aduba was born in 1930+something, early or late. Obi Nwakanma was born in 5ecember 1966, on the eve of the war, airlifted by CARITAS to Gabon on his way to the USA, and like my daughter may have spent no more than six weeks total on Igbo soil ever since.  

Now Obi Aduba says he does not know one-tenth of Igbo culture compared to Obi Nwakanma?

Tufiakawa! Omebiremebi!

Obi mesmerizes his Igbo compatriots with English, while throwing here and there Igbo cultural gems of dubious validity. He, they and their brigade begin to hem and haw when caught in a major cultural scandal as we currently have in our hands, courtesy your humble self, Zik a-bowed before the Ooni.

I have already blown up that picture, and I am about to frame it, as an pictoral ode to Igbo respect. I don't like it when Igbo people are lied upon, particularly by some Igbo in the Diaspora.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

PS: Where is Ken Asagwara? He will soon re-surface, and tell us he was busy somewhere else while all of this was going on. Actually, I believe that is looking for a good entry point for his bear-bear! :-)

On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Imperial,
> Thanks for yours below. The purpose of my posting the picture was to debunk Obi Nwakanma's "Igbo does not do this, Igbo does not do that". He did not say that "Some areas in Igbo land don't do this or that". Note that two days ago, I highlighted another Igbo saying Igbo brides in his area kneel to give drinks to bridegroom. This was after Obi had told us "Igbo does not kneel for another human being". I noticed that Obi and his kind are already trying to "explain" what happens in the photograph (Zik bowing to Ooni) we can all see with our korokoro eyes (I thought they say photographs don't lie!). 
> Does one need to say that Obi Nwakanma lacks credibility? He deliberately misinforms us on the forums in an attempt to present Igbo culture, Igbo tradition and Nigerian history (as it relates to Igbo) the way he wants us to believe and not the way they are. Did you read Ben Aduba saying he wished he had 10% of Obi Nwakanma's knowledge? Ben is much older than Obi. He therefore must be aware that Obi is not being truthful in what he writes. Another person that does what Obi does is Nebu. Nebu said the Constitution does not say Ministers should be appointed from every State, that it is laziness that makes people to say the Constitution says so. When the relevant sections of the Constitution was posted to show that he was wrong, he did not apologize because he knew he was lying when he said what he said. Yorubas have a saying to the effect that a long story is usually laced with lies. Note how Obi and Nebu use 1000 words to communicate what can conveniently be communicated with less than 500 words. Obi is said to be an academician. Gone are those days when we used to take whatever an academician wrote to bank.
> Let's go back to enjoy how the photograph of Zik bowing to Ooni continues to be spinned!
> Ayo Ojutalayo
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>
>

> Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
>
> Prince Ojutalayo,
> Please don't be surprised my brother.  Onitsha people are cultured differently from other Igbos. Kindly remember that Zik was from Onitsha, a town which has longer history of leadership and organized structure than most parts of Igbo land. 
>
> Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 07:37, Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

> <https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wec0HPlaeX25WhBZu6vFLZd4SwrBIX45m3yrvofw6XYMtQ6bNFmssgZz5GpIPwUS2bKktdUfQhmzfiL1FSYNeH_xXtHNx67u5XvQXyYL-3E40kO0xVhDFWp_4f9MOuz-M20q9KnUcWyquCV6DEM6viUMO8SmFL3kK0nY30e8SXg=s0-d-e1-ft#https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRek9AaWWddLS2f_px_rVUpj4yPrjnXgDthJS0TdpjFg5Uy_1hNQA>

[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

“PS: Where is Ken Asagwara? He will soon re-surface, and tell us he was busy somewhere else while all of this was going on. Actually, I believe that is looking for a good entry point for his bear-bear! :-)” Bolaji Aluko

 

Bolaji Aluko, VC:

 

I can see, you are still losing some sleep fretting over my lofty bears. Sorry, can’t help you deal with it old chap.

 

The below, which you did not read before writing as you did in yours above excerpted is my contribution on this none issue that you are hewing and hawing over. Enjoy it!

 

Folks:

 

The essence in the mind of the one who posted that photo of the Great Zik in salutation exchanges with the Oni of Ife, Oba Adesoji Aderemi is to prove or show that bowing is not a taboo in Igbo culture. Well, what I see in the photo is the Great Zik stooping his towering height to a firm handshake with the Oba and the Oba slightly bending forward to accept his hand in greeting.

 

In the photo, seeing the broad smiles on the faces of Awo and Akintola tells one Zik’s gesture seemed what they did not expect and it pleasantly surprised them. Those arguing whether the Great Zik was “bowing” to the Oba or not should know this. Zik was a traditionalist who revered Traditional Institutions and cultural etiquettes. He suffered not so easily anyone that showed disregards for traditions and culture, especially, when it applied to elders and authority figures. His reverence for Traditional Institutions and Culture, including his acceptance of the Protocols of the Elders was made obvious in his acceptance of the Onitsha Traditional Institutions titles; such as, being a Member of the Red Cap Chiefs, the Agbalanze Society, the Onowu of Onitsha, etc., and a willing ear to the then Obi of Onitsha on issues and cases on traditional and cultural events. Was it not always a thrill to behold the towering figure of the Great Zik in Onitsha Ndi-Ichie attire dance with relish in public the Ofo-Ala Festival.

 

So, the Great Zik in the photo displayed traditional and cultural mien in his exchange of pleasantries with the Ooni, Oba Adesoji Aderemi. Besides, it must be remembered that Oba Adesoji Aderemi was quite an Elder in age to the Great Zik. Also, remember that Zik spent most of his growing up years in Yoruba land and among Yorubas as well as, his business and political life years. His children’s middle names were Yoruba names. Yes, that is true of the Great Zik the one and only true Nigerian Nationalist of his time.

 

Cheers.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

From: afis [mailto:odide...@gmail.com]

Sent: September-03-15 10:19 AM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; Obi Nwakama; 'talkn...@yahoogroups.com'; Egbe; Naija Politics
Cc: badu...@aol.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; B o l a j i A l u k o; Nebu; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; Abraham Madu; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; Asagwara, Ken (EAL); Peter Opara; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; Ozodi Osuji
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

 Vin Otuonye, this is really embarrassing to Igbos.

Where's my main men, Wharfy?

Hehe.....I can't even laff.

Shikena

afis

---

From: Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com>

To: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:17 AM

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
 

 

Ayo:

 

Get over it. Zik is just like me - born and bred outside Igbo land. If we're talking about one with knowledge of Igbo tradition and culture,  surely you don't come to me or Zik. But you see how deceitful you are? Last night it was Biafra soldiers raping Mid West (and by the way Yoruba also) girls and women.  Today it is Zik bowing to the Ooni of Ife. Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni? It is because Yoruba people have taken respect too far that no Yoruba person in this forum has the gut to call you to order. They close their eyes and allow an elder to act childish in public. But I see you're not alone. You have company with those in their mid 50s.

 

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

 

 

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Date:09/03/2015 2:38 AM (GMT-05:00)

To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni, Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik.

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Bolaji,

Na wa for our compatriots o. They think we did not interact with Igbos before internet. And that we are still not interacting with Igbos away from cyberspace! It beats me when people that are supposed to be smart lie on www . . . lying to the whole world.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 2:41 PM

[Omoluabi]

Dr Asagwara,

So, did Zik bow or not?

Why all of that without agreeing or disagreeing?

Na wa o....

Hmmmm

Viscount

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/3/15, Asagwara, Ken (EAL) <Ken.As...@gov.mb.ca> wrote:

Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
To: "'Mobolaji Aluko'" <alu...@gmail.com>, "'Ayo Ojutalayo'" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "'Imperial'" <imperi...@yahoo.com>, "'africanw...@googlegroups.com'" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "'nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com'" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>, "'Obi Nwakama'" <rexmari...@yahoo.com>, "'badu...@aol.com'" <badu...@aol.com>, "'odide...@gmail.com'" <odide...@gmail.com>, "'omo...@yahoogroups.com'" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "'Nebu'" <nebuka...@aol.com>, "'naijain...@googlegroups.com'" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>, "'wharf...@yahoo.com'" <wharf...@yahoo.com>, "'nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com'" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>, "'vin_mo...@yahoo.com'" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>, "'pach...@yahoo.com'" <pach...@yahoo.com>, "'adung...@yahoo.com'" <adung...@yahoo.com>, "'stda...@gmail.com'" <stda...@gmail.com>, "'nationa...@yahoo.com'" <nationa...@yahoo.com>, "'ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk'" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>, "'Abraham Madu'" <abraha...@yahoo.com>,
"'topc...@yahoo.com'" <topc...@yahoo.com>, "'yemif...@gmail.com'" <yemif...@gmail.com>, "'femmy...@yahoo.com'" <femmy...@yahoo.com>, "'therea...@yahoo.com'" <therea...@yahoo.com>, "'ekuju...@yahoo.com'" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>, "'petercl...@yahoo.com'" <petercl...@yahoo.com>, "'ejan...@yahoo.com'" <ejan...@yahoo.com>, "'guka...@comcast.net'" <guka...@comcast.net>, "'Peter Opara'" <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, "'aim.s...@gmail.com'" <aim.s...@gmail.com>, "'niger...@yahoogroups.com'" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>, "'rexma...@hotmail.com'" <rexma...@hotmail.com>, "'Ozodi Osuji'" <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, September 3, 2015, 2:54 PM

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Imperial:

May your tribe increase!

The interesting thing is that a "Prince Ojutalayo" has just entered the race for the Ooni-ship in Ile-Ife. I am not saying that it is our very own Ayo, but in the event that it is, it would mean that Zik of Africa once bowed down for Ayo - even if anachronistically - and Vin, Obi, Ezaeana, Ken and all these other Igbo siblings of ours better start taking lessons in bow-man-ship, and start lining up.

I may have to stop calling Ayo by his name soon.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The incontrovertible evidence presented by Prince Ayo Ojutalayo has sealed the entire argument.  Zik of Africa was the greatest Igbo man known to history so his sayings and deeds should be reference point to all discerning Igbo people around the world . This photo has contracted the widely held belief that all Igbos are unruly and uncultured ; it also lends credence to another  historical facts that there is a form of cultural linkage  between the Onitsha people , Edo people and Yoruba people . 
> NEBU please surrender ! 
>

> Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 16:39, afis <odide...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Vin Otuonye, you see why you call yourself "Olodo"?
> Zik was seen bowing to greet a King, you are now talking foolishly.
> So, if you visit Queen of England you won't bow, and a woman won't bend at the knee? 
> Then you foolishly try to move the soccer post to fit your banana shot.  Why don't you bring out Okpara's picture at the same event showing he did not bow?
> You are a lawyer, you mouthing don't bring out any doubts unless you show us some counter-picture.

> Shikena
> afis
>  
> ________________________________

> From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com>
> To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
> Cc: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:55 AM
> Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
>
> Aluko:
>  
> Don't confuse things. I have no problem showing and giving respect to an elder. It has nothing to do with any prideful self-esteem. But understand that respect, even when you give it to elders, is earned. I don't throw respect to a juvenile fool on account that he's older. I was not around during the time of Ooni Adesoji Aderemi but looking at that picture, he seemed to me like one who carried his office or authority with respect. But honestly, I don't know if I can say the same about the late Ooni, Sijuade. To me Ooni Sijuade was pompous and arrogant. But honestly, that is another topic for another day. BTW, did you seem Michael Okpara next to Zik. Michael Okpara was the typical Igbo born and bred with Igbo culture and tradition.
>  
> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
>  

> ________________________________
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:09:46 +0100

> Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

> From: alu...@gmail.com
> To: Vincent...@msn.com
> CC: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com
>
>
> Vin:
>
> Ayo Ojutalayo has done it again - brought out an incontrovertible picture of the Great ZiK of Africa respectfully and rightly bowing before the Ooni of Ife - with Obi Nwakanma in the picture (he is the one to the right of the Ooni Ojutalayo could not recognize,  smiling approvingly :-)?)
>
> Lookia, Vin: last week or two, I watched in full display on NTA the Ofala (New Yam) Festival of the Onitsha people, and saw the display of respect and bowing/prostrating obeisance that was paid to the Obi of Onitsha by his subjects/citizens. (The Obi was my former Shell quarters chess partner Obi Achebe.) If ZiK and yourself were "born and bred outside Igboland", are all the Onitsha people too so outerly bred?
>
> Abeg, ye'm efe! Too many of you harrumph boorishbess, and confuse it with prideful self-esteem. It doesn't even come out as arrogance but childish boorishness.
>
> Thank you bo, Ayo. I am sure there are pictures on that same day showing Awo and Sardauna - and even Nwakanma Rex Marinus el-Dada - the Forrest Gump of Nigerian politics - bowing to the Ooni.
>
> And there you have it!
>
>
> Bolaji Aluko
> Having a belly laugh
>

> On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com> wrote:
>> Ayo:
>> Get over it. Zik is just like me - born and bred outside Igbo land. If we're talking about one with knowledge of Igbo tradition and culture,  surely you don't come to me or Zik. But you see how deceitful you are? Last night it was Biafra soldiers raping Mid West (and by the way Yoruba also) girls and women.  Today it is Zik bowing to the Ooni of Ife. Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni? It is because Yoruba people have taken respect too far that no Yoruba person in this forum has the gut to call you to order. They close their eyes and allow an elder to act childish in public. But I see you're not alone. You have company with those in their mid 50s.
>> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
>>
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
>> Date:09/03/2015 2:38 AM (GMT-05:00)

>> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, pach...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>

>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
>>

>> <https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wec0HPlaeX25WhBZu6vFLZd4SwrBIX45m3yrvofw6XYMtQ6bNFmssgZz5GpIPwUS2bKktdUfQhmzfiL1FSYNeH_xXtHNx67u5XvQXyYL-3E40kO0xVhDFWp_4f9MOuz-M20q9KnUcWyquCV6DEM6viUMO8SmFL3kK0nY30e8SXg=s0-d-e1-ft#https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRek9AaWWddLS2f_px_rVUpj4yPrjnXgDthJS0TdpjFg5Uy_1hNQA>
>>  
>> Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni, Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik.
>>  
>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
>> To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
>> Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
>>
>> Hehehe!.......as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. Iguade is still learning patience!!! Hehehe....! Stay tuned. Iguade
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2015, at 11:57 PM, "Collins Ezebuihe" <collye...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Mazi Aduba:
>>  
>> You are addressing Ola Kassim, who is just a conventional thinker. If he does not know that even a Mother may not always know the true paternity of her child --even as Ola is a Medical Practitioner-- stop wasting your time with him.
>>  
>> Clearly, you now know why I continue to maintain that Ola and Joseph are very conventional people. Need I show more proof of that, than just point at Kassim's words that you paraphrased --not to talk of his French?
>>  

>> Sent from my iPad

>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________

>> From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
>> To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
>> Cc: "Nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "olaka...@aol.com" <olaka...@aol.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 5:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
>>
>>
>> Wilson:
>> Vin is right:  I am not joking.
>> There is an ebb and flow of cultural and traditional practices between the Yoruba and the Igbo (that also run through our cousins  the Bini) that is unmistakable.  The easterly direction appears to be a combination of cultural forgetting and rebellion, to my mind.
>> But I may be wrong;  I have been known to be episodically wrong.
>>

>> And there you have it.
>>

>> Bollaji Aluko
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, Vin Otuonye < vincent...@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> But it is not a joke.
>>  
>> Vin
>>  
>> ________________________________
>> From: igu...@hotmail.com
>> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com
>> CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; develop...@googlegroups.com

>> Subject: RE: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

>> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:00:36 -0500
>>
>> hehehehe!
>> I totally get this joke. Baffled indeed! Dada and Rastafarian Hehehehehe!
>> Wow! 
>> Iguade
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:42:46 +0100

>> Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

>> From: alu...@gmail.com
>> To: Nebuka...@aol.com
>> CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> Nebu:
>>
>> I am baffled: I really don't know where Igbo traditions and culture diverted from Yoruba ones, but male children/people born/required to wear long (Rastafari-like) hair are also called "Dada" in Yoruba-land.
>>
>> There must have been some form of another rebellion some time in the past.
>>

>> And there you have it.
>>
>>
>> Bolaji Aluko
>>

>> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, < Nebuka...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> You for example wear  - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo? (Bolaji Aluko)
>>>
>>>  
>>> VC Aluko,
>>> Ida kwa ya ozo (you have flunked it again). What you dubbed Rastafarian hairdo is called ishi dada in Igbo language. It was worn (and still being worn by non-Christian brainwashed Igbos of today) in Igbo land long before the ancestors of Rastafarians were shipped off the coasts of West Africa.
>>>  
>>> Ishi dada comes naturally on a person wearing it upon birth. It is never to be shaved until the gods say so, usually at the wearer's teenage to adulthood years. Most ishi dadas are spiritualists, just like your grandfather minus his blood ingesting and fear instilling on the populace of his ear. If professor Nwakanma is an ishi dada wearer, you'd better respect him -- people that powerful can point a finger at you and you will miss a tooth instantly.   
>>>  
>>> Mazi Obi Nwakanma does not just write for Igbos on yahoo, he also writes for Igbo gburugburu (Igbo all round). He is a blessing to Igbos of today because without him, cultural imperialists and supremacists like you, Ayo Ojutalayo, and that Bini Ewan whatishislastnameagain, would have written Igbo into oblivion with your revisionism.
>>>  
>>> In your bible, it is written that Timothy mastered the scriptures while still in his mother's womb. With respect to Igbo culture, professor Obi Nwakanma, who is younger than most of us on these forums, is Timothy to the 3rd power. You know it to be so, professor Aluko, but your Yoroba supremacist outlook will not allow you to honor it; you'd rather use falsehood to discredit him. You will never succeed in doing so.  
>>>  
>>> Ndewo.   
>>>  
>>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>> In a message dated 9/2/2015 5:14:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alu...@gmail.com writes:
>>>
>>> Obi Nwakanma:
>>> I have come to learn that you blow too much hot air and grammar when it comes to asserting Igbo supermenschen cultural supremacy. You like to pontificate to Igbo yahoogroups as if you are the Igbo cultural watchman.  
>>> You for example wear  - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo?
>>> Biko...ye'm efe! ;-)
>>> But I won't take you up line-by-line for what you wrote below.  Your son may elope with my daughter - she will still be my daughter and he will still be my son-in-law - but if he wishes my approval of their wedding (which may or may not matter on the long run), he will have to suscribe to the cultural activities that I lay down towards that event.  If there are benefits he would have gained thereby, by not fulfilling those activities, he would lose them.  If he benefits MORE by not fulfilling my requests, so be it.
>>> But be assured of this:  if my son marries your daughter, I will ask him to fulfil the obligations consistent with YOUR Igbo (real and contrived) cultural requirements, and HIS Christian sensibilities.

>>> And there you have it.
>>>
>>> Bolaji Aluko
>>>

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Bolaji,

These our Igbo friends (Nebu, Ezeana, Vin and Ken) will have no choice but to bow should I become Ooni. I will politely ask them to be taught in public if they greet me in public without bowing. If Zik could, I won't accept any thing less from any Nigerian.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: afis <odide...@yahoo.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[Rex Marinus]

Dr. Aluko: if it makes you very happy to think that Zik bowed to Ooni Aderemi, well, by all means be happy. But you should know that it is atypical behavior.

Obi Nwakanma

>> If a true Igbo wants to take a title, for instance, he sits on a low carved stool, with four legs. He does not kneel. He does not bow. An array of all the men of title, each with his personal "Ofo ," form a circle around him before his personal shrine at the center of his compound, and they do what we call, "Isu Ofo Nze."  When the "abuba Ugo" - the feather of the great Eagle - is stuck on his cap, he rises and takes four hand salutes with his horsewhip to indicate the equality and strength of his arms, and dances the dance of title, called 'Egwu Ozo" played on the "Epete" in my neck of the woods, and is joined in the dance by all men of title, and then his well-wishers. A man dies, and his title is buried with him. It is not inherited - "Chi Awughi Otu."In Igbo beliefs, therefore, we do not bow, because to bow to another is to say, "Chi Wam" - be my God. You cede the divine in you, according to that belief, and you insult the great creator of all things, who gave you being, and of whose essence you embody.
>> It is not just a matter of cultural superiority, it is rooted in ancient Igbo religious beliefs. The only time a man bows to you symbolically is when he enters your "Obu/Ovu," because when you come to his own "Obu/ovu" you too will bow to him, and make your peace salutation. Children, from very early are thought to greet an elder by shaking their hands firmly. Elders themselves are obligated to instruct the young in the perfect ways of the land. The sum of all Igbo law is the law of balance - not of superiority. I will offer you just an example: in Igbo land, it is the least among us - the youngest - that is given the duty of sharing or dividing things held in common. And it is the right of the eldest, following a hierarchy to pick first. The logic is simple: we protect the weak by giving them power. Because he knows he will be the last to pick, the young must therefore strive to be just in "ike oke" - in the sharing. So you see, while age has its privileges, it also has its responsibilities. It is what the Igbo call, "Iha zi oke" - to establish balance and equity. So, for the Igbo, if bowing to your elders is the way of your world, may it be as you see fit with your gods. We do not bow, because, "Ala forbids." They who bow are "ohu." I salute you.

>> Obi Nwakanma
>>
>>  
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:05:46 +0100
>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial: Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku
>> From: alu...@gmail.com
>> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com

>> CC: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com

>>
>>
>> Nebukadineze Adeiel:
>> Honestly, Ayo Ojutalayo got the better of you in this exchange below - and it is not because he is a friend (from university days) or he is like me Yoruba.  It is just that when it comes to comparative culture, condemnations must be very measured.
>> A people do not just arrive at a cultural practice by democratic means, by voting, and hence cannot eschew those practices by democratic means.  Invariably, cultural practices - and their stoppage - occur either by internal or external force, invariably in a manner to enable the physical or social survival of the group.  When a survival is no longer under threat, it can be done away with - or retained for historical or for cultural differentiation reason.
>> For example, bowing down for an elder - or certain royalty - is a mark of respect in most cultures of the world. A few cultures - like that of the Yoruba - take it further and prostrate for the king and a select few elders - but not for EVERY older person or at every occassion.  You may have to prostrate for somebody only in the morning, and not for the rest of the day.  There may be reason to join others to prostrate for somebody in public, along with others, but not in private....and so on.  WHY a particular practice occurs may be lost in the mist of time, but it is NEVER arbitrary.
>> Is it every Yoruba cultural practice that I support?  Absolutely not, even those ones that are relatively harmless.  But I either hold my nose and practice them, or AVOID those arenas where my NOT practising them will show me as a cultural boor, because showing yourself as a cultural rebel for nothing is worthless.  An Igbo man or European cannot now come and want to marry a Yoruba girl, and say that because they do not prostrate in Igboland or in Europe for elders, he will stand erect and shake the bride-to-be's father....even me, as non-traditional as I am, will require fulfillment of all cultural requirements before  I marry off my three daughters,  and I expect my two sons to do Likewise.
>> By the way, my medical-school first daughter, born in the US almost thirty years ago has just spent six weeks in Ibadan, on a Fulbright exchange program  at UI, to be steeped in Yoruba speaking and culture.  She thoroughly enjoyed herself - her group also visited major Yoruba towns on the process.  She even began to "pa owe" (speak in or tell proverbs) to me.  But I quickly corrected her that on Yorubaland, younger persons do not "pa owe" to elders, and of at all, it must be with feigned deep apologies and permission.  She apologized for her first errant attempt at showing off her new learning without that cultural nuance:-)

>> And there you have it.
>>
>> Bolaji Aluko
>>

>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:05 AM, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nebu: Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces).
>>
>> Response: Lagos "is not much of Yoruba land"? You are still in your dream land.
>> How did you know that Onyeka's kneeling down to greet PMB was not a mark of any culture? Or have you spoken to her after the incident?
>>  
>> Nebu: As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful  and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer.
>> Response: Imperial was telling you what happens. He was not dignifying the practice. By the way, that the practice is unacceptable to you does not mean it  is unacceptable to those doing it. After all, no one is forced to do it.
>>  
>> Nebu: On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler.
>> Response: Many of us including yours truely have heard from Igbo friends and acquaintances that Igbo culture does not care about respect for elders unlike other African cultures. Even on these forums, one could see that Igbo's culture does not respect. Vin Otuonye that was born in Yoruba land not long ago complained about "too much respect by Yorubas"! That is why you and your ilk do not hesitate to abuse and insult other Nigerians and Nigerian leaders dead and alive. 
>> Because Igbo does not have traditional rulers like the Yoruba Obas and Northern Emirs, you cannot understand why they are treated with reverence. If the Prime Minister of Britain bows to the Queen, why should a Governor not bow to an Oba? The Governors come and go, the institution of Obaship is there for ever. Stay away from what you cannot understand.
>>  
>> Nebu: That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others.
>> Response: It is not your business that Yorubas have no "drawn line between official and traditional roles". In actual fact, it is only in Igbo culture that there is the so called line drawn "between official and traditional roles". In all other geo-political zones in Nigeria, traditional rulers are respected by elected officials. They are traditional fathers of all, including the governors.
>>  
>> Nebu: No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. 
>> Response: Are you saying an Igbo lady married to another culture should not assimilate and practise the culture of her new home? Onyeka's children are said to be Yorubas. Even non-Nigerians that marry Yorubas do kneel down to greet elders.
>>  
>> Nebu: Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to  them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a  people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century.
>> Response: Atiku is respected by the Governor because of his being an elder not because he was a Vice President. That is the respect for elders that is said to be lacking in Igbo culture. This respect is even appreciated by non-Africans. No one is forcing "Igbo people to copy" our way of life. There are over 200 cultures in Nigeria and none is forced on others. You are the one that should mind your business and stop criticizing others' way of life. 
>>  

>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>
>> ________________________________

>> From: Nebukadineze via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
>> To: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com
>> Cc: vin_mo...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; pach...@yahoo.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; oyo-...@yahoogroups.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 8:39 PM
>> Subject: To Imperial: ||NaijaObserver||Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku
>>
>> Imperial,
>> I am not sure that you read what I wrote about Tinubu's bowing his head for Buhari (whether it was before or after his inauguration). Without repeating myself, let me just say that I found it acceptable -- you can read what I wrote a second time.
>>  
>> Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces).
>>  
>> As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer.
>>  
>> On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler.
>>  
>> That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others.
>>  
>> That Igbos worship moneyed folks is a recent phenomenon of the late 1980s to now. In Igbo land of my father's and of my childhood, a person without character, no matter how wealthy, was never respected. When we were children, dad would point to we-we (marijuana) smokers and alcoholics as derelicts unworthy of emulating. From an early age, I began to loathe weed smokers and alcoholics because they were never respected by our people. A thief, no matter how wealthy, was neither respected nor allowed to speak in any gathering of Igbos during my childhood. Yes, it is true that  wealthy people, even armed robbers and 419ners, command the most respect in Igbo land of today, but it was not always like that. Even though that is the norm now in Igbo land (most traditional leaders and politicians in Igbo of today are people who would have been shunned in Igboland of the 1970s and going backward), not every Igbo is in acceptance of that debauchery. I do not respect or associate with people without character or whose means of livelihood are not transparently honest. I have once told the story of backing out of chairing an Mbaise festival after I found out (about two weeks before the occasion) that a recently paroled 419ner had bought asoebi uniform for all the women and was sponsoring the occasion. I am not the only Igbo who rejects such associations.   
>>  
>> No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. 
>>  
>> Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a  people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century.
>>  
>>  

>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 6:52:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wharf...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> Imperial my friend,
>> Was it Yoruba culture before the loss at Ilorin to the Fulani or after? Please back up with verifiable historical artifacts.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 
>>
>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nebu, 
>> Buhari wasn't president when the above photo with Bola Tinubu was taken but kindly note that it's part of Yoruba and northern culture for one to respect people who are older including the current and past leaders. That Bola Tinubu bowed to Buhari isn't strange to the majority of Yoruba people as it's our culture to respect elders . From all available records, Buhari was already our military head of state before Tinubu was appointed Treasurer of Mobil Oil Nigeria at Bookshop House,Lagos. If you were in his shoes,would you have acted otherwise ?  
>> During the military era in Nigeria, many state governors always sit on the carpet when meeting or talking to a superior or top military officer eg a two star officer like General Ishola Williams. It's a Northern culture adopted countrywide by the military to show respect to elders or bosses . 
>> A young Igbo man in his mid 30s once told me that he learned how to respect elders when he came to secondary school in Lagos and that in the East respect is accorded to people based to wealth hence everybody around him looks for money desperately. Ms Onyeka Onwenu was bred largely in Lagos; it's unlikely she would restrict herself to only Igbo traditions and culture. As you probably aware, Dr Mike Adenuga(  in his early 60s ) perhaps is the richest Yoruba man around today, it's impossible for him to address an older man of say in his 70s by name or talk rudely to such person except they engage in a very serious quarrel. 
>> In the UK, China and Japan and many other civilized countries, you have to curtsey or kowtow when meeting important people, like the Queens, Kings and other leaders.  I hope our brothers and sisters who haven't adopted this culture - which is common among all Africans - should try to borrow a leaf from others as it promotes orderliness and organized structure which wasn't in place in some part of Nigeria when Lord Lugard took over the control of the country over a century ago .  
>>

>> Sent from my iPad

>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 13:35, Nebuka...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Vin Modebelu,
>> You should have included that Onyeka Onwenu idolatrous picture too. I would starve to death than conduct myself in any of this shameful obsequiousness. Just imagine a whole governor of a state sitting on a dirty floor upon which shoes, possibly stepped on human and animal feces, were stepped on a few minutes prior, just to defer to a wealthy former Vice President of Nigeria? That pathetic symbolism is that of Atiku Abubakar standing on the entire people of Adamawa state. Tufiakwa!
>>  
>> With respect to Tinubu, much is not wrong with his mien, he was just acknowledging the current status of president Buhari by bending his head for him. There is nothing wrong in so doing -- former president Clinton did it for president Obama after giving a speech at the last Democratic Party's National Convention (Obama will do similarly for his successor); former president Obasanjo did so for then sitting president Jonathan and now sitting president Buhari. Granted that Tinubu bowed too low, he is still within a reasonable conduct -- he was sort of ushering the president into his new status; it is officially acceptable from former leaders.
>>  

>> Onyeka Onwenu deserves to be fined by Ndi Igbo for her depraved worshiping of her fellow human being, something frowned upon by Igbo culture -- that picture cannot escape my memory and it galls me steadily. 

>>  
>> As for the stupid governors who are bowing to Obas, in a republican democratic nation, they are subjecting their mandates to these Obas' superiority. Ironically, the Nigerian constitution makes the Obas inferior to governors who can query and even remove them from their thrones. But most of these governors were either 'money missed roads' or intellectual nobodies before becoming governors, so they still suffer the inferiority complex of not recognizing the implications of their positions or of their obsequious actions. This is why a confederation is better for Nigeria, so that folks can worship their fellow human beings without such conduct chagrining others of the same country.   
>>  

>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:00:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vin_mo...@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> This is pure loyalty....for monies and lively hood.
>> The Governor had already appointed Atikus daughter as the Commissioner for health. Atiku now owns Adamawa.
>> the Obas sit on the floor for Asiwaju too. Asiwaju prostrates for Buhari
>> The Governors lie face down for the Obas .
>> Many humans lie face down in the streets for governors.
>> vin.....///
>> ....Born to tell the truth
>> ....they are listening indeed
>> ... thick walls will  fall
>> <https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/t8vEOGd56Jz3oT99_i5NimWqisjGHbpdnQ-nI73H0SKIscO_GAcmpi8pL66nTNcOWdYdZI2sdrVGPVaS0dIWrpMxdRF_czZMcSFk_YTzyyWULTgKX4Jz=s0-d-e1-ft#https://krazyinsidekenya.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wpid-001.jpg>
>>
>>
>> "Loyalty Or Culture"; Caption This Photo Of Adamawa State Governor Sitting On The Floor In Atiku's Presence
>>
>>  <https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cvMgx42_nw0/VeKzxal_WhI/AAAAAAAA8hA/BeTg3MI0mLQ/s400/vdef.jpg>
>>   
>> Adamawa state governor, Jibrila Bindow, pictured sitting on the floor at the residence of former vice president Atiku Abubakar. Is this a form of loyalty or just culture
>> http://www.nationalhelm.com/2015/08/loyalty-or-culture-caption-this-photo.html
>>
>> <https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ZLQFEh9VRKPNe_aI1gbn2Mshz4YTYgmiy531-Lx5fTepOZ5zR1hmZ7memrG_1cJ5TCFPIADQsIQGLnPA3c5ocCLFE_9781GIUfJw-UymCfYscp4VffhEWot_3df9Ixe2xYyTv6UvhEOu2SUx_Ps22w=s0-d-e1-ft#http://gist212.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0a7c24526228ddd924bd233c4ee0ba5f12a28332.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =
>>
>> --

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[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

“...it would mean that Zik of Africa once bowed down for...” Bolaji Aluko

 

Bolaji Aluko:

 

You wish. In yours underlined, are you just being hyperbolic and mischievous or ignorant there is a difference between “bowed down” and a stoop, in deference?

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

[Wharf A. Snake]

Ogbeni Oha:

I am impressed with your cut and paste ability. 

Sent from my iPhone

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Ayo:

If you become the Ooni, even I would bow for you, friends that we are.

And if Nebu, Ezeana, Vin, Obi 1, Obi 2 or Ken try not to bow, I will take away the bottle from them, put my hand on their heads and bow them myself.....but I won't have to. All they do is rake...amanjakiri!

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

>>> CC: naijaintellects@googlegroups.< --

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Obi:

I am indeed happy that the widespread depiction of the Igbo as a disrespectful people by some of you our Igbo compatriots in the Diaspora has been incontrovertibly dispelled by the picture.

No, Zik is not an atypical Igbo.
Mba nu!


Bolaji Aluko

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/SNT147-W80D16CEF0D4B6948ABB166DF680%40phx.gbl.

[DIPO ENIOLA]

Ejo ni Mushin:

You are fast becoming KC Asagwara of Umuahia IN CYBERSPACE. He is one jealous fiend. things have gotten so bad for you these days; that you now  rely on Vin Pretty Boy Otuonye, a boy born and raised in Ajegunle to be your Igbo interpreter/translator. Tell that little rascal, Obi Nwakanma to consult with me when next he wants to write his yeye Igbo History.

The Oha 1

Ahu Nze, Ebie oKWU

---

From: 'Wharf A. Snake' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/8A917D01-4945-4D71-80B8-0CFFAF9F7631%40yahoo.com.

[Philip Achusim]

VC Aluko: As Odi-Isaa, God forbid that I would bend my knee let alone kneel to ask a girl to be my companion for life so I can take care of her. But I still have the picture where you were not on your knees, but on your belly, with all folks from your clan, begging Mrs. Aluko to marry you. Listen. Take another look at that picture where Ooni was thanking his God for the opportunity to have a handshake with the guy who singlehandedly kicked the British from Africa. What does their pose remind you of? After a coin toss, what do the captains do? They shake hands. Look. Ooni was seated when the other serfs knelt to prostrate before him. But he stood up from his seat to have a handshake with Zik of Africa. If you look closely to the right of the picture, you will see clearly the seat and the shadow of the seat that Ooni was sitting on as he received his subjects. But he got up real fast to greet and embrace the great Zik of Africa. And what picture do we have of Awolowo? Ya. Awolowo was in a picture with naked college age students. And you think Zik of Africa would bend his knees for Ooni? Iyasikwa?

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

[Wilson Iguade]

VC Aluko,

Point of Correction! Using Robert' Rule. :)

 

Quote

Ayo:
If you [Ayo] become the Ooni, even I would bow for you, friends that we are.

Unquote

Correction:

You or me will not be bowing to Ayo, per se, we would be bowing to the THRONE! 

Abi na lie I talk. Peace! Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAORq2DC65eHLp6%2BcvurDQ%3DpRwg%3DewizXSow1c6XVe8vih-hQDA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Philip Achusim]

Ayo: I hope you become the next Ooni. At 6 feet, I will have to stoop low enough as I go through the doors to see which dames are there in your palace to keep me company for the night. I understand the door to the guest room is only 5 feet tall. After your coronation as the new Ooni of Ile Ife, I will be your first overnight guest to check out ife ndi Ile Ife have for their Royal overnight guest. Ile efi is my favorite whenever I am in Ile Ife. Ile efi goes well with egusi as only Ile Ife can manufacture in their kitchen. Ayo. If there is anything Ezeana be an do to help you become the next Oini, don't hesitate to call on me.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 2:21:06 PM, Ayo Ojutalayo wrote:

Bolaji, These our Igbo friends (Nebu, Ezeana, Vin and Ken) will have no choice but to bow should I become Ooni. I will politely ask them to be taught in public if they greet me in public without bowing. If Zik could, I won't accept any thing less from any Nigerian. Ayo Ojutalayo “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Mobolaji Aluko To: Imperial Cc: afis ; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" ; Obi Nwakama ; "badu...@aol.com" ; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" ; Nebu ; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" ; "wharf...@yahoo.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" ; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" ; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim ; "adung...@yahoo.com" ; "stda...@gmail.com" ; "nationa...@yahoo.com" ; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" ; Abraham Madu ; "topc...@yahoo.com" ; "yemif...@gmail.com" ; "femmy...@yahoo.com" ; "therea...@yahoo.com" ; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" ; "petercl...@yahoo.com" ; "ejan...@yahoo.com" ; "guka...@comcast.net" ; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" ; Peter Opara ; "aim.s...@gmail.com" ; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" ; "rexma...@hotmail.com" ; Ozodi Osuji

[daniel Akusobi]

Question: " Whose son is this Bomboy ? " (Judge)
Answer : "....... It is just as possible that it could have been none ".
( Aduba)
Judge : And that has always been possible until DNA is able to
set the woman searching for other samples.
Thanks Aduba for that insight. I never knew a woman can get
impregnated same day by 4 different men that had sex with her in
same day.

Hope all the men would be Yorubas so we would not need to argue
which child must be bowing in the womb.

or

let's have Ola help us out here with having an Igbo woman make a
quad using man's juice from an Hawusa, one Yoruba, one Igbo and God
forbide using some from President Jonathan's stored thing.
Let the same mother raise all of them in Aba till adulthood so we can
determine if the Yoroba in the set of quadriplets would start bowing
as soon as borne.
Science already concluded that the president Joe part of the set will
be a high suspect in being clueless about anything. Lol

This talk is now getting more interesting.

Dan

On 9/3/15, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum

<africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi,
> Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders
> would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni,
> Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if
> Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik.
> Ayo Ojutalayo
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort
> and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
> ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>

> #yiv6143583597 #yiv6143583597 --.yiv6143583597hmmessage
> P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv6143583597
> body.yiv6143583597hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv6143583597

> Mazi Aduba:
>
> You are addressing Ola Kassim, who is just a conventional thinker. If he
> does not know that even a Mother may not always know the true paternity of
> her child --even as Ola is a Medical Practitioner-- stop wasting your time
> with him.
>
> Clearly, you now know why I continue to maintain that Ola and Joseph are
> very conventional people. Need I show more proof of that, than just point at
> Kassim's words that you paraphrased --not to talk of his French?
>
> Ihemkwa/Tufiakwa!!
>
> Colly.
>
>

> To: odide...@gmail.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com;
> omo...@yahoogroups.com
> CC: ayooju...@yahoo.com; alu...@gmail.com; nebuka...@aol.com;
> naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com;
> imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
> vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com;
> stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk;
> abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com;
> femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com;
> petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net;
> ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com;
> niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com
> From: NigerianI...@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 20:59:05 -0400
> Subject: NigerianID | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko:
> [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
>

> From: igu...@hotmail.com
> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com
> CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com;
> talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com;
> africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
> omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com;
> adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com;
> nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk;
> abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com;
> femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com;
> petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net;
> ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com;
> niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com;
> esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; develop...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To
> Imperial...
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:00:36 -0500
>
> hehehehe!
> I totally get this joke. Baffled indeed! Dada and Rastafarian Hehehehehe!
>
> Wow!
> Iguade
>

>>> CC: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com;

>>> africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
>>> omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com;
>>> adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com;
>>> nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk;
>>> abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com;
>>> femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com;

>>> naijain...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com;

>>> petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net;
>>> ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com;
>>> niger...@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>

>>> And there you have it.
>>>
>>> Bolaji Aluko
>>>

>>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>>
>>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>>> comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
>>> controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>>
>>> ________________________________

>>> From: Nebukadineze via NaijaEvent < naija...@googlegroups.com>
>>> To: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com
>>> Cc: vin_mo...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com;

>>> pach...@yahoo.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com;

>>> badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com;
>>> olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com;
>>> topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com;

>>> therea...@yahoo.com; naija...@googlegroups.com;
>>> talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com;
>>> africanw...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com;

>>> petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net;
>>> ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com;

>>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> Sent from my iPad

>>> Nebukadineze Adiele
>>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:00:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> vin_mo...@yahoo.com writes:
>>>
>>> This is pure loyalty....for monies and lively hood.
>>> The Governor had already appointed Atikus daughter as the Commissioner
>>> for health. Atiku now owns Adamawa.
>>> the Obas sit on the floor for Asiwaju too. Asiwaju prostrates for Buhari
>>>
>>> The Governors lie face down for the Obas .
>>> Many humans lie face down in the streets for governors.
>>> vin.....///
>>> ....Born to tell the truth
>>> ....they are listening indeed
>>> ... thick walls will fall
>>> <
>>> https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/t8vEOGd56Jz3oT99_i5NimWqisjGHbpdnQ-nI73H0SKIscO_GAcmpi8pL66nTNcOWdYdZI2sdrVGPVaS0dIWrpMxdRF_czZMcSFk_YTzyyWULTgKX4Jz=s0-d-e1-ft#https://krazyinsidekenya.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wpid-001.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Loyalty Or Culture"; Caption This Photo Of Adamawa State Governor
>>> Sitting On The Floor In Atiku's Presence
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cvMgx42_nw0/VeKzxal_WhI/AAAAAAAA8hA/BeTg3MI0mLQ/s400/vdef.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>> Adamawa state governor, Jibrila Bindow, pictured sitting on the floor at
>>> the residence of former vice president Atiku Abubakar. Is this a form of
>>> loyalty or just culture
>>> http://www.nationalhelm.com/2015/08/loyalty-or-culture-caption-this-photo.html
>>>
>>>
>>> <
>>> https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ZLQFEh9VRKPNe_aI1gbn2Mshz4YTYgmiy531-Lx5fTepOZ5zR1hmZ7memrG_1cJ5TCFPIADQsIQGLnPA3c5ocCLFE_9781GIUfJw-UymCfYscp4VffhEWot_3df9Ixe2xYyTv6UvhEOu2SUx_Ps22w=s0-d-e1-ft#http://gist212.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0a7c24526228ddd924bd233c4ee0ba5f12a28332.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>>
>>> --

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>>> email to naijaevent+...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> --

>>
>>
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[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

Ayo Ojutalayo: I just cannot understand it. Pa Obi Aduba was born in 1930+something, early or late. Obi Nwakanma was born in 5ecember 1966, on the eve of the war, airlifted by CARITAS to Gabon on his way to the USA, and like my daughter may have spent no more than six weeks total on Igbo soil ever since. Now Obi Aduba says he does not know one-tenth of Igbo culture compared to Obi Nwakanma?

Tufiakawa! Omebiremebi!

Obi mesmerizes his Igbo compatriots with English, while throwing here and there Igbo cultural gems of dubious validity. He, they and their brigade begin to hem and haw when caught in a major cultural scandal as we currently have in our hands, courtesy your humble self, Zik a-bowed before the Ooni.

I have already blown up that picture, and I am about to frame it, as an pictoral ode to Igbo respect. I don't like it when Igbo people are lied upon, particularly by some Igbo in the Diaspora. And there you have it. By Mobolaji Ebenezer Aluko


Bolekaja Aluko:

 

Tell me/us how old was NOWA, Augustina, Janet abi Joan, Abikunola, Yankit Odumankin, Wale Adedayo, Yankee Ogundarin, Felix Adejumo, Debo Awosika, Buska and all the young Ngbati, Ngbati thugs are in 1965 to 1970? Or in 1960 to 1970 when the war ended?

 

Is NOWA older than Dr. Nwakanma Obi?

 

Why would you, Ayojuwere, Oga Adeboye, Oga Ola, AFIS and Banji Ayilara believe the lies NOWA and all the people I mentioned above wrote about the war and the 60’s crisis that happened when they were Bomboys and Babes? You believed all the lies they wrote even about towns I knew very well and I have families living there when NOWA wrote of these incidents that never happened there.

 

You will say NOWA researched it. So why not believe that Nwanna Obi researched his own stories too? You trashed Obi write up as lies, the same way you said I lied about Ngbati Soldiers beating up my maternal family because they are Igbo in-Iaws.

 

You even believed what EVELYNJOE, a Cameroon Girl wrote about Nigeria. She is not as old as Nwanna Obi.

 

You are now using comic without banality to destroy the reputation of Nwanna Obi just like you tried to destroy the personality of Emeka Ugwuonye by trashing his Harvard Law Degree. Only Igbo fools will take your nonsense as comic.  

 

But so what if Obi was born in 1966? Are you older than Oga Adeboye, Oga Ola and Oga Onyeani when you write rubbish about things that happened in their kolokolo eyes?

 

Don’t bring that age issue here otherwise none of the young people I mentioned above will ever write on these forums about the 60’s crisis.

 

You see why you are called Igbo hater? You get skin thin if I say that you flunked and frustrated many Igbo’s at Howard University, but what you just wrote about Nwanna Obi and calling him a liar showed that if you were to be grading his paper, you will FLUNK him and give grades A’s to NOWA, Augustina, Janet abi Joan, Abikunola, Yankit Odumankin, Wale Adedayo, Yankee Ogundarin, Felix Adejumo, Debo Awosika and Buska.

 

Oga Adeboye was a student at UI in 1965 and was supposed to know how and what triggered WETTIE in October 1965 and I was in Primary 5 that year. But the same Oga Mathematician stated here that he relied on NOWA to tell him what happened in his Kolokolo eyes when NOWA was sucking the feeding bottles.You even used tricks, your old ways to mock and ridicule Nwanna Nwa Aduba age.

 

Augustina Iyare was born in August or September 1965 and she told us that she saw Igbo’s fucking BINI ladies and you shamelessly believed her. Note that I was in Benin-City at 31 Idahosa Street in Benin-City, opposite Mid-West Voice Newspaper in August 1967.

 

You will continue to have problem with Igbo’s with all these your hate.

 

NA ME AND YOU.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

---

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 11:41 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

 "The photo has shown to all that not all Igbos are uncouth, unpolished and uncultured." . . . Imperial 

Imperial,

That exactly is my point. People lie to us on the forums about Igbo culture and traditions. Some are covering up their inadequacies with "Igbo does not respect . . . . ", "Igbo does not bow . . . " etc. 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>
To: Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Alagba Ojutalayo, 

  

You have indirectly given positive publicity to the entire Igbo race . The photo has shown to all that not all Igbos are uncouth, unpolished and uncultured. 

They all owe you one ! 

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 3, 2015, at 17:53, Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni?" . . . . Vin Otuonye

Vin, 

I don't know the relevance of this question. Zik did not need to prostrate to Ooni in public to show respect to Ooni. Did you not read where I said how Zik was greeting Ooni was " exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public"?

I have told you many times, your Igbo brothers bring up these issues. I only debunk their lies. If you guys stop lying, I will not need to write as often as I write. 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com>
To: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:17 AM

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Ayo:

Get over it. Zik is just like me - born and bred outside Igbo land. If we're talking about one with knowledge of Igbo tradition and culture,  surely you don't come to me or Zik. But you see how deceitful you are? Last night it was Biafra soldiers raping Mid West (and by the way Yoruba also) girls and women.  Today it is Zik bowing to the Ooni of Ife. Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni? It is because Yoruba people have taken respect too far that no Yoruba person in this forum has the gut to call you to order. They close their eyes and allow an elder to act childish in public. But I see you're not alone. You have company with those in their mid 50s.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device

-------- Original message --------
From: 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Date:09/03/2015 2:38 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>
Cc: badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, pach...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>

Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni, Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik.

 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

Hehehe!.......as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. Iguade is still learning patience!!! Hehehe....! Stay tuned. Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2015, at 11:57 PM, "Collins Ezebuihe" <collye...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mazi Aduba:
 
You are addressing Ola Kassim, who is just a conventional thinker. If he does not know that even a Mother may not always know the true paternity of her child --even as Ola is a Medical Practitioner-- stop wasting your time with him.
 
Clearly, you now know why I continue to maintain that Ola and Joseph are very conventional people. Need I show more proof of that, than just point at Kassim's words that you paraphrased --not to talk of his French?
 

Ihemkwa/Tufiakwa!!
 
Colly.  

 

---

To: odide...@gmail.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com
CC: ayooju...@yahoo.com; alu...@gmail.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com
From: NigerianI...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 20:59:05 -0400

Subject: NigerianID | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

 

Mr. Kassim,

Shikena,
Afis
Sent from my iPad

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "olaka...@aol.com" <olaka...@aol.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 5:42 PM

Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...

Wilson:

Vin is right:  I am not joking.

There is an ebb and flow of cultural and traditional practices between the Yoruba and the Igbo (that also run through our cousins  the Bini) that is unmistakable.  The easterly direction appears to be a combination of cultural forgetting and rebellion, to my mind.

But I may be wrong;  I have been known to be episodically wrong.

And there you have it.

Bollaji Aluko

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, Vin Otuonye < vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

But it is not a joke.
 
Vin
 

From: igu...@hotmail.com
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com
CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; develop...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:00:36 -0500

hehehehe!

I totally get this joke. Baffled indeed! Dada and Rastafarian Hehehehehe!

Wow! 

Iguade

Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:42:46 +0100
Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial...
From: alu...@gmail.com
To: Nebuka...@aol.com
CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com


Nebu:

I am baffled: I really don't know where Igbo traditions and culture diverted from Yoruba ones, but male children/people born/required to wear long (Rastafari-like) hair are also called "Dada" in Yoruba-land.

There must have been some form of another rebellion some time in the past.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, < Nebuka...@aol.com> wrote:
> You for example wear  - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo? (Bolaji Aluko)
>
>  
> VC Aluko,
> Ida kwa ya ozo (you have flunked it again). What you dubbed Rastafarian hairdo is called ishi dada in Igbo language. It was worn (and still being worn by non-Christian brainwashed Igbos of today) in Igbo land long before the ancestors of Rastafarians were shipped off the coasts of West Africa.
>  
> Ishi dada comes naturally on a person wearing it upon birth. It is never to be shaved until the gods say so, usually at the wearer's teenage to adulthood years. Most ishi dadas are spiritualists, just like your grandfather minus his blood ingesting and fear instilling on the populace of his ear. If professor Nwakanma is an ishi dada wearer, you'd better respect him -- people that powerful can point a finger at you and you will miss a tooth instantly.   
>  
> Mazi Obi Nwakanma does not just write for Igbos on yahoo, he also writes for Igbo gburugburu (Igbo all round). He is a blessing to Igbos of today because without him, cultural imperialists and supremacists like you, Ayo Ojutalayo, and that Bini Ewan whatishislastnameagain, would have written Igbo into oblivion with your revisionism.
>  
> In your bible, it is written that Timothy mastered the scriptures while still in his mother's womb. With respect to Igbo culture, professor Obi Nwakanma, who is younger than most of us on these forums, is Timothy to the 3rd power. You know it to be so, professor Aluko, but your Yoroba supremacist outlook will not allow you to honor it; you'd rather use falsehood to discredit him. You will never succeed in doing so.  
>  
> Ndewo.   
>  
> Nebukadineze Adiele
> Reject Religion; Relive Reason!
>
>
>
>
>  
> In a message dated 9/2/2015 5:14:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alu...@gmail.com writes:
>
> Obi Nwakanma:
> I have come to learn that you blow too much hot air and grammar when it comes to asserting Igbo supermenschen cultural supremacy. You like to pontificate to Igbo yahoogroups as if you are the Igbo cultural watchman.  
> You for example wear  - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo?
> Biko...ye'm efe! ;-)
> But I won't take you up line-by-line for what you wrote below.  Your son may elope with my daughter - she will still be my daughter and he will still be my son-in-law - but if he wishes my approval of their wedding (which may or may not matter on the long run), he will have to suscribe to the cultural activities that I lay down towards that event.  If there are benefits he would have gained thereby, by not fulfilling those activities, he would lose them.  If he benefits MORE by not fulfilling my requests, so be it.
> But be assured of this:  if my son marries your daughter, I will ask him to fulfil the obligations consistent with YOUR Igbo (real and contrived) cultural requirements, and HIS Christian sensibilities.

> And there you have it.
>
> Bolaji Aluko
>

> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Rex Marinus < rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> If my son, comes to marry your daughter, Professor Aluko, he'll certainly not bow to you. He may do something else to accord you his highest regard. You may decide to let him marry, or elope with your daughter, if they feel strongly enough about each other. But if, on account of his acting his true Igboness, you refuse him, so be it. There is a cultural sense in Igbo, and I think in other places, that define these choices. For the Igbo, "Aka wu Ike Nga" - the hand is the sign of one's autonomy, and one's industry, and so we raise our hands in the highest salute to great deeds. We say, to a great man, "Aka m no n'elu!" I raise my hands in salute to you. The Igbo consider all men born to earth living divinities. Man or child - the ancient Igbo considered each one a "living god" (mmuo loro uwa). The first thing a man, at the threshold of manhood does is to establish his home. First, he is shown the land. The next is, he makes an offering of a ram to the High God, called "Nkpi ihu chukwu" and thereafter establishes what we call, "Ihu Chi" -  a shrine to the self and to one's guiding spirit, by planting the two trees - the "oha" and the "Ogilisi" - the trees of life because they regenerate cyclically. God is never represented in any shrine or in an image, except through man, in Igbo Odinala beliefs. For the woman, once she arrives the home of her marriage, she also installs a shrine to herself, also called, "Ihu Eke." These two principles establish the duality of the divine, "Chi na Eke" in Igbo thought and ritual. Those who see themselves as direct descendants of the divine are forbidden to bow to another, and for a "DiAla" (lord of the land), irrespective of wealth or title, to bow to another is often called, "Nso Ala." It is a small crime against the earth goddess, the force of all divine laws in Igbo land. The Igbo say, "Ohu wu Ohu" - only the captive or slave, is forced to his knees, or those subdued by force. They become the "living dead" because they have no agency. Which is why an Igbo would prefer suicide than to be forced to give up the inner agency called his 'CHI.'
>> If a true Igbo wants to take a title, for instance, he sits on a low carved stool, with four legs. He does not kneel. He does not bow. An array of all the men of title, each with his personal "Ofo ," form a circle around him before his personal shrine at the center of his compound, and they do what we call, "Isu Ofo Nze."  When the "abuba Ugo" - the feather of the great Eagle - is stuck on his cap, he rises and takes four hand salutes with his horsewhip to indicate the equality and strength of his arms, and dances the dance of title, called 'Egwu Ozo" played on the "Epete" in my neck of the woods, and is joined in the dance by all men of title, and then his well-wishers. A man dies, and his title is buried with him. It is not inherited - "Chi Awughi Otu."In Igbo beliefs, therefore, we do not bow, because to bow to another is to say, "Chi Wam" - be my God. You cede the divine in you, according to that belief, and you insult the great creator of all things, who gave you being, and of whose essence you embody.

>> It is not just a matter of cultural superiority, it is rooted in ancient Igbo religious beliefs. The only time a man bows to you symbolically is when he enters your "Obu/Ovu," because when you come to his own "Obu/ovu" you too will bow to him, and make your peace salutation. Children, from very early are thought to greet an elder by shaking their hands firmly. Elders themselves are obligated to instruct the young in the perfect ways of the land. The sum of all Igbo law is the law of balance - not of superiority. I will offer you just an example: in Igbo land, it is the least among us - the youngest - that is given the duty of sharing or dividing things held in common. And it is the right of the eldest, following a hierarchy to pick first. The logic is simple: we protect the weak by giving them power. Because he knows he will be the last to pick, the young must therefore strive to be just in "ike oke" - in the sharing. So you see, while age has its privileges, it also has its responsibilities. It is what the Igbo call, "Iha zi oke" - to establish balance and equity. So, for the Igbo, if bowing to your elders is the way of your world, may it be as you see fit with your gods. We do not bow, because, "Ala forbids." They who bow are "ohu." I salute you.

>> Obi Nwakanma
>>
>>  
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:05:46 +0100
>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial: Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku
>> From: alu...@gmail.com
>> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
>> CC: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com
>>
>>
>> Nebukadineze Adeiel:
>> Honestly, Ayo Ojutalayo got the better of you in this exchange below - and it is not because he is a friend (from university days) or he is like me Yoruba.  It is just that when it comes to comparative culture, condemnations must be very measured.
>> A people do not just arrive at a cultural practice by democratic means, by voting, and hence cannot eschew those practices by democratic means.  Invariably, cultural practices - and their stoppage - occur either by internal or external force, invariably in a manner to enable the physical or social survival of the group.  When a survival is no longer under threat, it can be done away with - or retained for historical or for cultural differentiation reason.
>> For example, bowing down for an elder - or certain royalty - is a mark of respect in most cultures of the world. A few cultures - like that of the Yoruba - take it further and prostrate for the king and a select few elders - but not for EVERY older person or at every occassion.  You may have to prostrate for somebody only in the morning, and not for the rest of the day.  There may be reason to join others to prostrate for somebody in public, along with others, but not in private....and so on.  WHY a particular practice occurs may be lost in the mist of time, but it is NEVER arbitrary.
>> Is it every Yoruba cultural practice that I support?  Absolutely not, even those ones that are relatively harmless.  But I either hold my nose and practice them, or AVOID those arenas where my NOT practising them will show me as a cultural boor, because showing yourself as a cultural rebel for nothing is worthless.  An Igbo man or European cannot now come and want to marry a Yoruba girl, and say that because they do not prostrate in Igboland or in Europe for elders, he will stand erect and shake the bride-to-be's father....even me, as non-traditional as I am, will require fulfillment of all cultural requirements before  I marry off my three daughters,  and I expect my two sons to do Likewise.
>> By the way, my medical-school first daughter, born in the US almost thirty years ago has just spent six weeks in Ibadan, on a Fulbright exchange program  at UI, to be steeped in Yoruba speaking and culture.  She thoroughly enjoyed herself - her group also visited major Yoruba towns on the process.  She even began to "pa owe" (speak in or tell proverbs) to me.  But I quickly corrected her that on Yorubaland, younger persons do not "pa owe" to elders, and of at all, it must be with feigned deep apologies and permission.  She apologized for her first errant attempt at showing off her new learning without that cultural nuance:-)

>> And there you have it.
>>
>> Bolaji Aluko
>>

>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:05 AM, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum < africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Nebu: Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces).
>>
>> Response: Lagos "is not much of Yoruba land"? You are still in your dream land.
>> How did you know that Onyeka's kneeling down to greet PMB was not a mark of any culture? Or have you spoken to her after the incident?
>>  
>> Nebu: As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful  and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer.
>> Response: Imperial was telling you what happens. He was not dignifying the practice. By the way, that the practice is unacceptable to you does not mean it  is unacceptable to those doing it. After all, no one is forced to do it.
>>  
>> Nebu: On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler.
>> Response: Many of us including yours truely have heard from Igbo friends and acquaintances that Igbo culture does not care about respect for elders unlike other African cultures. Even on these forums, one could see that Igbo's culture does not respect. Vin Otuonye that was born in Yoruba land not long ago complained about "too much respect by Yorubas"! That is why you and your ilk do not hesitate to abuse and insult other Nigerians and Nigerian leaders dead and alive. 
>> Because Igbo does not have traditional rulers like the Yoruba Obas and Northern Emirs, you cannot understand why they are treated with reverence. If the Prime Minister of Britain bows to the Queen, why should a Governor not bow to an Oba? The Governors come and go, the institution of Obaship is there for ever. Stay away from what you cannot understand.
>>  
>> Nebu: That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others.
>> Response: It is not your business that Yorubas have no "drawn line between official and traditional roles". In actual fact, it is only in Igbo culture that there is the so called line drawn "between official and traditional roles". In all other geo-political zones in Nigeria, traditional rulers are respected by elected officials. They are traditional fathers of all, including the governors.
>>  
>> Nebu: No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. 
>> Response: Are you saying an Igbo lady married to another culture should not assimilate and practise the culture of her new home? Onyeka's children are said to be Yorubas. Even non-Nigerians that marry Yorubas do kneel down to greet elders.
>>  
>> Nebu: Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to  them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a  people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century.
>> Response: Atiku is respected by the Governor because of his being an elder not because he was a Vice President. That is the respect for elders that is said to be lacking in Igbo culture. This respect is even appreciated by non-Africans. No one is forcing "Igbo people to copy" our way of life. There are over 200 cultures in Nigeria and none is forced on others. You are the one that should mind your business and stop criticizing others' way of life. 
>>  

>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>
>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>
>> ________________________________

>> Sent from my iPad

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[Abraham Madu]

Look. Ooni was seated when the other serfs knelt to prostrate before him. But he stood up from his seat to have a handshake with Zik of Africa. If you look closely to the right of the picture, you will see clearly the seat and the shadow of the seat that Ooni was sitting on as he received his subjects. But he got up real fast to greet and embrace the great Zik of Africa. Gbam! Gbam!! Gbam!

And what picture do we have of Awolowo? Ya. Awolowo was in a picture with naked college age students. And you think Zik of Africa would bend his knees for Ooni? Iyasikwa?


And I am
Ezeana Achusim
Odi-Isaa
Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu.

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[Abraham Madu]

Ụmụ nne Abrahamụọgụ Aṅụsịobi Madụ.

Afis Odedere,

Nyemụ efe n’ụzọ ka mụ gafere.

Nyem mmiri.

Nye mụ efe./(not give me shirt)

Nye mụ mmiri!

Ana aka Wayo Boy Ayotade Ojutalayo ọga aghọta.

Onye ana ekiri ekiri ekwesighị ikpo onwe ya ntụ n’ahụ,HO! HA!

Zik bụ Ugo ndị Afrika ji eje mba.

Ooni makwara maka ya.

Ugo ekwesighị ite onwe ya unyikuru-unyi na ahụ,cha cha!

Zik ,the Sun of Afrika.

Ọnwa na etiri ọha/ọra ama ama!

Ọzọ ka Zik bụ.

Ya kpọtụba!

Ya gazie.

Ụmụ nne Abrahamụọgụ Aṅụsịobi Madụ.

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:29 PM, 'Philip Achusim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

--

[Philip Achusim]

VC Aluko: Any one who would fall flat on his belly to beg a lady to marry him should have no problem bending his knees and bowing to Ayo when he becomes Ooni. Some call it force of habit. Some call it experience. And you have all that. What we are waiting for now is for Afis to be buried alive with Ooni and Ayo to become Ooni, and we would be killing two Igbo haters with one stone.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

[Rex Marinus]

I'll like to say, that at close to fifty years of age, I no longer claim youth. However, I shall also say, to Ogbuefi Aduba, thank you for your kind words.  I may be knowledgeable in many things, but I also know that as an elder of the Igbo, what you see sitting down, I may not see standing up. So, Mazi Aduba, and all men of wisdom, my hand is raised in salute to you. Ndi n'alo. Ndi an'abia. Uwa wu ahia. We all come to it, trade our bit, and return. It is both word, and proverbs.

Obi Nwakanma

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From: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 15:48:44 -0400
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

Mr. Ayo Ojutalayo,

Yes, Mr. Aluko is right for the first time in his life. Mr. Nwakanma is young enough to be my son (my oldest son is 42). But he is only half right. Wisdom in not distributed on annual basis so that if you are 100 years you have say 100 and a 42 year old would have just 42. No that is not the way it is. God gives more to some and less to others. Thus Joseph had more than his siblings, Moses had it more than most Israelites and Our Lord Jesus Christ at 30 confounded the Pharisees and the Scribes who were much older.

 

I am not jealous of my namesake. I am delighted that God gave him wisdom. And courage to speak out lucidly and to convert the Gentiles of Igbo culture to the truth.

oo eziokwu.

 

Aduba

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>

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[Wilson Iguade]

Quote

Does one need to say that Obi Nwakanma lacks credibility? He deliberately misinforms us on the forums in an attempt to present Igbo culture, Igbo tradition and Nigerian history (as it relates to Igbo) the way he wants us to believe and not the way they are.

Unquote by Ayo Ojutalayo [boldface mine]

Response: Those of us that are INSIGHTFUL have already "noted" that Obi Nwakanma is NOT credible by saying he blows "HOT AIR".

When we indicated that Obi Nwakanma blows "HOT AIR", or at least, when I said so, it means no credibility, just grammar. Big big grammar, even the ones BEFORE CHRIST (BC) era. 

Am waiting for the next "charade", these fakes Igbo cyberspace warriors will pull next! 

Peace! Iguade

Sent from my iPhone

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[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

Ayo:

 

Since you will NEVER become the Ooni, engaging you and Bolaji Aluko on speculations of who would bow or not bow to you is fruitless.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/986203299.1168132.1441308046052.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

Viscount S:

 

You read me and I believe you did understand me, too. So which one is it, "bowed" or did not? Whichever choice that pleases you, keep it.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

-----Original Message-----
From: africanw...@googlegroups.com [mailto:africanw...@googlegroups.com]

Sent: September-03-15 2:08 PM
To: 'Mobolaji Aluko'; 'Ayo Ojutalayo'; africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: 'Imperial'; 'africanw...@googlegroups.com'; 'nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com'; 'Obi Nwakama'; 'badu...@aol.com'; 'odide...@gmail.com'; 'omo...@yahoogroups.com'; 'Nebu'; 'naijain...@googlegroups.com'; 'wharf...@yahoo.com'; 'nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com'; 'vin_mo...@yahoo.com'; 'pach...@yahoo.com'; 'adung...@yahoo.com'; 'stda...@gmail.com'; 'nationa...@yahoo.com'; 'ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk'; 'Abraham Madu'; 'topc...@yahoo.com'; 'yemif...@gmail.com'; 'femmy...@yahoo.com'; 'therea...@yahoo.com'; 'ekuju...@yahoo.com'; 'petercl...@yahoo.com'; 'ejan...@yahoo.com'; 'guka...@comcast.net'; 'Peter Opara'; 'aim.s...@gmail.com'; 'niger...@yahoogroups.com'; 'rexma...@hotmail.com'; 'Ozodi Osuji'
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

Dr Asagwara,

 

So, did Zik bow or not?

 

Why all of that without agreeing or disagreeing?

 

Na wa o....

 

Hmmmm

 

Viscount

 

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 9/3/15, Asagwara, Ken (EAL) <Ken.As...@gov.mb.ca> wrote:

 

Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

To: "'Mobolaji Aluko'" <alu...@gmail.com>, "'Ayo Ojutalayo'" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>

Cc: "'Imperial'" <imperi...@yahoo.com>, "'africanw...@googlegroups.com'" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "'nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com'" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>, "'Obi Nwakama'" <rexmari...@yahoo.com>, "<ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, "'aim.s...@gmail.com'" <aim.s...@gmail.com>, "'niger...@yahoogroups.com'" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>, "'rexma...@hotmail.com'" <rexma...@hotmail.com>, "'Ozodi Osuji'" <ozodi...@gmail.com>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/1441307269.8331.YahooMailBasic%40web163201.mail.gq1.yahoo.com.

[Philip Achusim]

Imperial: The mere thought or discussions to plan on how to harm Ezeana has always led to mass burials. Just ask my Ekiti friends. Ile Ife, with my ile efi dinner, will be prostrating and bidding for the right to keep my overnight company.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Sep 3, 2015, 4:43:20 PM, Imperial wrote: Ezeana, You better don't be his first guest after installation in order not to say bye bye to the world like Bobo Doherty. Sent from my iPad

On Sep 3, 2015, at 21:39, Philip Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ayo: I hope you become the next Ooni. At 6 feet, I will have to stoop low enough as I go through the doors to see which dames are there in your palace to keep me company for the night. I understand the door to the guest room is only 5 feet tall. After your coronation as the new Ooni of Ile Ife, I will be your first overnight guest to check out ife ndi Ile Ife have for their Royal overnight guest. Ile efi is my favorite whenever I am in Ile Ife. Ile efi goes well with egusi as only Ile Ife can manufacture in their kitchen.

Ayo. If there is anything Ezeana be an do to help you become the next Oini, don't hesitate to call on me.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 2:21:06 PM, Ayo Ojutalayo wrote:

Bolaji, These our Igbo friends (Nebu, Ezeana, Vin and Ken) will have no choice but to bow should I become Ooni. I will politely ask them to be taught in public if they greet me in public without bowing. If Zik could, I won't accept any thing less from any Nigerian.

Ayo Ojutalayo “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Mobolaji Aluko To: Imperial

Cc: afis ; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" ; Obi Nwakama ; "badu...@aol.com" ; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" ; Nebu ; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" ; "wharf...@yahoo.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" ; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" ; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim ; "adung...@yahoo.com" ; "stda...@gmail.com" ; "nationa...@yahoo.com" ; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" ; Abraham Madu ; "topc...@yahoo.com" ; "yemif...@gmail.com" ; "femmy...@yahoo.com" ; "therea...@yahoo.com" ; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" ; "petercl...@yahoo.com" ; "ejan...@yahoo.com" ; "guka...@comcast.net" ; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" ; Peter Opara ; "aim.s...@gmail.com" ; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" ; "rexma...@hotmail.com" ; Ozodi Osuji

Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Imperial: May your tribe increase! The interesting thing is that a "Prince Ojutalayo" has just entered the race for the Ooni-ship in Ile-Ife. I am not saying that it is our very own Ayo, but in the event that it is, it would mean that Zik of Africa once bowed down for Ayo - even if anachronistically - and Vin, Obi, Ezaeana, Ken and all these other Igbo siblings of ours better start taking lessons in bow-man-ship, and start lining up. I may have to stop calling Ayo by his name soon.

And there you have it. Bolaji Aluko

On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote: > The incontrovertible evidence presented by Prince Ayo Ojutalayo has sealed the entire argument. Zik of Africa was the greatest Igbo man known to history so his sayings and deeds should be reference point to all discerning Igbo people around the world . This photo has contracted the widely held belief that all Igbos are unruly and uncultured ; it also lends credence to another historical facts that there is a form of cultural linkage between the Onitsha people , Edo people and Yoruba people . > NEBU please surrender ! >

> Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 16:39, afis <odide...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Vin Otuonye, you see why you call yourself "Olodo"? > Zik was seen bowing to greet a King, you are now talking foolishly. > So, if you visit Queen of England you won't bow, and a woman won't bend at the knee? > Then you foolishly try to move the soccer post to fit your banana shot. Why don't you bring out Okpara's picture at the same event showing he did not bow? > You are a lawyer, you mouthing don't bring out any doubts unless you show us some counter-picture. > Shikena > afis > > ________________________________ > From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> > To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> > Cc: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:55 AM > Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi > > Aluko: > > Don't confuse things. I have no problem showing and giving respect to an elder. It has nothing to do with any prideful self-esteem. But understand that respect, even when you give it to elders, is earned. I don't throw respect to a juvenile fool on account that he's older. I was not around during the time of Ooni Adesoji Aderemi but looking at that picture, he seemed to me like one who carried his office or authority with respect. But honestly, I don't know if I can say the same about the late Ooni, Sijuade. To me Ooni Sijuade was pompous and arrogant. But honestly, that is another topic for another day. BTW, did you seem Michael Okpara next to Zik. Michael Okpara was the typical Igbo born and bred with Igbo culture and tradition. > > Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye > > ________________________________ > Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 12:09:46 +0100

> Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

> From: alu...@gmail.com > To: Vincent...@msn.com > CC: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com > > > Vin: > > Ayo Ojutalayo has done it again - brought out an incontrovertible picture of the Great ZiK of Africa respectfully and rightly bowing before the Ooni of Ife - with Obi Nwakanma in the picture (he is the one to the right of the Ooni Ojutalayo could not recognize, smiling approvingly :-)?) > > Lookia, Vin: last week or two, I watched in full display on NTA the Ofala (New Yam) Festival of the Onitsha people, and saw the display of respect and bowing/prostrating obeisance that was paid to the Obi of Onitsha by his subjects/citizens. (The Obi was my former Shell quarters chess partner Obi Achebe.) If ZiK and yourself were "born and bred outside Igboland", are all the Onitsha people too so outerly bred? > > Abeg, ye'm efe! Too many of you harrumph boorishbess, and confuse it with prideful self-esteem. It doesn't even come out as arrogance but childish boorishness. > > Thank you bo, Ayo. I am sure there are pictures on that same day showing Awo and Sardauna - and even Nwakanma Rex Marinus el-Dada - the Forrest Gump of Nigerian politics - bowing to the Ooni. > > And there you have it! > > > Bolaji Aluko > Having a belly laugh >

> On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Vin Otuonye <Vincent...@msn.com> wrote: >> Ayo: >> Get over it. Zik is just like me - born and bred outside Igbo land. If we're talking about one with knowledge of Igbo tradition and culture, surely you don't come to me or Zik. But you see how deceitful you are? Last night it was Biafra soldiers raping Mid West (and by the way Yoruba also) girls and women. Today it is Zik bowing to the Ooni of Ife. Please did Zik prostrate to the Ooni? It is because Yoruba people have taken respect too far that no Yoruba person in this forum has the gut to call you to order. They close their eyes and allow an elder to act childish in public. But I see you're not alone. You have company with those in their mid 50s. >> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye >> >> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> >> Date:09/03/2015 2:38 AM (GMT-05:00)

>> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com, Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com> >> Cc: badu...@aol.com, odide...@gmail.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>, Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, imperi...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, pach...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>

>> Subject: [africanworldforum] Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi >>

>> <https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wec0HPlaeX25WhBZu6vFLZd4SwrBIX45m3yrvofw6XYMtQ6bNFmssgZz5GpIPwUS2bKktdUfQhmzfiL1FSYNeH_xXtHNx67u5XvQXyYL-3E40kO0xVhDFWp_4f9MOuz-M20q9KnUcWyquCV6DEM6viUMO8SmFL3kK0nY30e8SXg=s0-d-e1-ft#https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRek9AaWWddLS2f_px_rVUpj4yPrjnXgDthJS0TdpjFg5Uy_1hNQA> >> >> Zik of Africa bows in public as he shakes hands with Oba Adesoji Aderemi, Ooni of Ife. That is exactly the way Chief Awolowo and other Yoruba leaders would greet Ooni in public. Looking on: Chief Akintola to the right of Ooni, Tafawa Balewa standing to the right of Chief Awolowo in glasses. Not sure if Chief Fani-Kayode is the one standing immediate to the right of Zik. >> >> Ayo Ojutalayo >> >> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Wilson Iguade <igu...@hotmail.com> >> To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com> >> Cc: "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; B o l a j i A l u k o <alu...@gmail.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "pach...@yahoo.com" <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:01 AM >> Subject: Re: | Re: Igbo, product of Yoruba culture: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial... >> >> Hehehe!.......as the Budhists mantra predicts, certain things have an interesting way of resolving themselves, if only we're patient. Iguade is still learning patience!!! Hehehe....! Stay tuned. Iguade >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Sep 2, 2015, at 11:57 PM, "Collins Ezebuihe" <collye...@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> Mazi Aduba: >> >> You are addressing Ola Kassim, who is just a conventional thinker. If he does not know that even a Mother may not always know the true paternity of her child --even as Ola is a Medical Practitioner-- stop wasting your time with him. >> >> Clearly, you now know why I continue to maintain that Ola and Joseph are very conventional people. Need I show more proof of that, than just point at Kassim's words that you paraphrased --not to talk of his French? >>

>> Sent from my iPad

>> Ayo Ojutalayo >> >> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr >> >> >> >> ________________________________

>> From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> >> To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com> >> Cc: "Nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "olaka...@aol.com" <olaka...@aol.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 5:42 PM >> Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial... >> >> >> Wilson: >> Vin is right: I am not joking. >> There is an ebb and flow of cultural and traditional practices between the Yoruba and the Igbo (that also run through our cousins the Bini) that is unmistakable. The easterly direction appears to be a combination of cultural forgetting and rebellion, to my mind. >> But I may be wrong; I have been known to be episodically wrong. >>

>> And there you have it. >>

>> Bollaji Aluko >> >> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, Vin Otuonye < vincent...@msn.com> wrote: >> >> >> But it is not a joke. >> >> Vin >> >> ________________________________ >> From: igu...@hotmail.com >> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com >> CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; esan_co...@yahoogroups.com; develop...@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial... >> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 16:00:36 -0500 >> >> hehehehe! >> I totally get this joke. Baffled indeed! Dada and Rastafarian Hehehehehe! >> Wow! >> Iguade >> >> ________________________________ >> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:42:46 +0100 >> Subject: Re: To VC Aluko: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial... >> From: alu...@gmail.com >> To: Nebuka...@aol.com >> CC: naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com >> >> >> Nebu: >> >> I am baffled: I really don't know where Igbo traditions and culture diverted from Yoruba ones, but male children/people born/required to wear long (Rastafari-like) hair are also called "Dada" in Yoruba-land. >> >> There must have been some form of another rebellion some time in the past. >>

>> And there you have it. >> >> >> Bolaji Aluko >>

>> On Wednesday, September 2, 2015, < Nebuka...@aol.com> wrote: >>> You for example wear - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo? (Bolaji Aluko) >>> >>> >>> VC Aluko, >>> Ida kwa ya ozo (you have flunked it again). What you dubbed Rastafarian hairdo is called ishi dada in Igbo language. It was worn (and still being worn by non-Christian brainwashed Igbos of today) in Igbo land long before the ancestors of Rastafarians were shipped off the coasts of West Africa. >>> >>> Ishi dada comes naturally on a person wearing it upon birth. It is never to be shaved until the gods say so, usually at the wearer's teenage to adulthood years. Most ishi dadas are spiritualists, just like your grandfather minus his blood ingesting and fear instilling on the populace of his ear. If professor Nwakanma is an ishi dada wearer, you'd better respect him -- people that powerful can point a finger at you and you will miss a tooth instantly. >>> >>> Mazi Obi Nwakanma does not just write for Igbos on yahoo, he also writes for Igbo gburugburu (Igbo all round). He is a blessing to Igbos of today because without him, cultural imperialists and supremacists like you, Ayo Ojutalayo, and that Bini Ewan whatishislastnameagain, would have written Igbo into oblivion with your revisionism. >>> >>> In your bible, it is written that Timothy mastered the scriptures while still in his mother's womb. With respect to Igbo culture, professor Obi Nwakanma, who is younger than most of us on these forums, is Timothy to the 3rd power. You know it to be so, professor Aluko, but your Yoroba supremacist outlook will not allow you to honor it; you'd rather use falsehood to discredit him. You will never succeed in doing so. >>> >>> Ndewo. >>> >>> Nebukadineze Adiele >>> Reject Religion; Relive Reason! >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 9/2/2015 5:14:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, alu...@gmail.com writes: >>> >>> Obi Nwakanma: >>> I have come to learn that you blow too much hot air and grammar when it comes to asserting Igbo supermenschen cultural supremacy. You like to pontificate to Igbo yahoogroups as if you are the Igbo cultural watchman. >>> You for example wear - or used to wear - Rastafarian hairdo: is that culturally Igbo? >>> Biko...ye'm efe! ;-) >>> But I won't take you up line-by-line for what you wrote below. Your son may elope with my daughter - she will still be my daughter and he will still be my son-in-law - but if he wishes my approval of their wedding (which may or may not matter on the long run), he will have to suscribe to the cultural activities that I lay down towards that event. If there are benefits he would have gained thereby, by not fulfilling those activities, he would lose them. If he benefits MORE by not fulfilling my requests, so be it. >>> But be assured of this: if my son marries your daughter, I will ask him to fulfil the obligations consistent with YOUR Igbo (real and contrived) cultural requirements, and HIS Christian sensibilities.

>>> And there you have it. >>> >>> Bolaji Aluko >>>

>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Rex Marinus < rexma...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> If my son, comes to marry your daughter, Professor Aluko, he'll certainly not bow to you. He may do something else to accord you his highest regard. You may decide to let him marry, or elope with your daughter, if they feel strongly enough about each other. But if, on account of his acting his true Igboness, you refuse him, so be it. There is a cultural sense in Igbo, and I think in other places, that define these choices. For the Igbo, "Aka wu Ike Nga" - the hand is the sign of one's autonomy, and one's industry, and so we raise our hands in the highest salute to great deeds. We say, to a great man, "Aka m no n'elu!" I raise my hands in salute to you. The Igbo consider all men born to earth living divinities. Man or child - the ancient Igbo considered each one a "living god" (mmuo loro uwa). The first thing a man, at the threshold of manhood does is to establish his home. First, he is shown the land. The next is, he makes an offering of a ram to the High God, called "Nkpi ihu chukwu" and thereafter establishes what we call, "Ihu Chi" - a shrine to the self and to one's guiding spirit, by planting the two trees - the "oha" and the "Ogilisi" - the trees of life because they regenerate cyclically. God is never represented in any shrine or in an image, except through man, in Igbo Odinala beliefs. For the woman, once she arrives the home of her marriage, she also installs a shrine to herself, also called, "Ihu Eke." These two principles establish the duality of the divine, "Chi na Eke" in Igbo thought and ritual. Those who see themselves as direct descendants of the divine are forbidden to bow to another, and for a "DiAla" (lord of the land), irrespective of wealth or title, to bow to another is often called, "Nso Ala." It is a small crime against the earth goddess, the force of all divine laws in Igbo land. The Igbo say, "Ohu wu Ohu" - only the captive or slave, is forced to his knees, or those subdued by force. They become the "living dead" because they have no agency. Which is why an Igbo would prefer suicide than to be forced to give up the inner agency called his 'CHI.' >>>> If a true Igbo wants to take a title, for instance, he sits on a low carved stool, with four legs. He does not kneel. He does not bow. An array of all the men of title, each with his personal "Ofo ," form a circle around him before his personal shrine at the center of his compound, and they do what we call, "Isu Ofo Nze." When the "abuba Ugo" - the feather of the great Eagle - is stuck on his cap, he rises and takes four hand salutes with his horsewhip to indicate the equality and strength of his arms, and dances the dance of title, called 'Egwu Ozo" played on the "Epete" in my neck of the woods, and is joined in the dance by all men of title, and then his well-wishers. A man dies, and his title is buried with him. It is not inherited - "Chi Awughi Otu."In Igbo beliefs, therefore, we do not bow, because to bow to another is to say, "Chi Wam" - be my God. You cede the divine in you, according to that belief, and you insult the great creator of all things, who gave you

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[daniel Akusobi]

Mazzi Aluko,
You are surely not helping out well on this issue with your choice
of "language".
I said I will close my eyes and watch my son bow before you if he MUST
marry your daughter. With such descriptions of some of my people in
your posting below, I have I have decided to leave those eyes wide
open to ensure my boy does not bow to you unless he promisses his
bowing will be for bring you on his shoulders, against your wish, to
Aba. Lol.
Anyway, did I say a hungry man would eat pork or what about all birds
in Rome, that want to benefit and and live happiliy in Rome like the
Romans, singing like Roman birds?
I think a lot of Igbos in Lagos do so already. You will soon know how
such an adaptation has helped in making us, the IGBOS , more Igboloid.
Keep reading!.

Our debate here on who bows and who must never, is just as usual, an
academic exercise. The situation on the ground, ( which I AM A LIVING
TESTIMONY) , for the smarter Igbos tell an entirely different stories
. Again, keep reading !


Like the Vee, ( Vin. Otuonye) once said, the Yorubas take this
respect thing too far. they love it so give it to them and take their
wives. They, most Yorubas, would not mind, so far you postulate low
enough in such efforts!

I benefitted a lot from my Yoruba landlord and his local chief by
bowing before my Yoruba father in law and most of the Yoruba elders
in that community . I married one of Yoruba girls at a great discount
after degrading myself ( it seemed then) by bowing so many times to so
many of them including some of their drunks and crazies.

They described me as "unIgbo" and I capitalized on such a cherish I
sacrifised my pride to merrit so I could achieve my goals of living
ABA for LAGOS as quickly as possible .

At the end, I walked away with a very beautiful Mgbati girl , and
would have taken more if was strong enough for their headaches. I also
walked away with some empty plots of land, some were given to me free
for being UNIGBO , and some at 75% discount .
My fellow Igbos, the story above took place live and it did not change
my Igboliness a bit . It rather enhanced it, that is, I used my
Igbo sense ( Orlu sense in particular) to put some Yorubas in my
pocket in those deals . There is another familial example to follow.
"Follow me! " (Ken)

There is value in the saying : "stoop to conquer". Some Igbos from my
side of town left our homes in the early 70es to live and work in
Lagos. I heard my mom then advising my uncle to forget about whatever
he believed he was, and behave like a fool so he can learn , worship
his Yoruba neighbors and land lords so they can "show him" some lands
to farm. My uncle did exactly all my mom instructed him to do. Today,
that my uncle owns all those lands he farmed . The Yoruba owners sold
them to him. He even married 2 Yoruba women ( cowives to his Igbo
native first wife) and that enhanced his land aquisition ventures in
Lagos more greatly .
I took after him in my very brief life in Ajegunle. I left my
borrishness at home, burried my pride, nearly took the name "Olaninyi)
and I ate some pork because I was hungry, I practically unIgbonized
myself during those brief days in lagos and in the end, I left the
scene feeling victorious.
BTW: That name, "Olaninyi" would have countered every ambition I had
if I had taken it in other to have greater victory over Yoruba. Igbo
readers do know what that name means and why it could be the worse
name an igbo would ever buy.

THE MORAL IN THE THESIS

Igbos in Lagos may have threaded in the part of the stories above and
that may in part, account for the big successes we have registered in
lagos and other parts of Nigeria we can now call ours' by the
incidence of keeping or owning what we bourght.
We can as well use same tactics for some political gains in present
day Nigerian politics by forming some alliance with same people we
may NOT BOW to so that our next Buhari would consider
"Sinator" ( Senator ) Ngige or Governor Amaechi or Mazzi Nebu, Eziana,
Green Dim and even bro Ozodinobi Osuji worthy to dine with him at the
federal executive and the security council.
hope you had fun reading this, and if you are Igbo, please pardon me
for my mistake. I spilled some beans .

Dan. Akusobi


.

On 9/3/15, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:
> Aluko:
>
> Don't confuse things. I have no problem showing and giving respect to an
> elder. It has nothing to do with any prideful self-esteem. But understand
> that respect, even when you give it to elders, is earned. I don't throw
> respect to a juvenile fool on account that he's older. I was not around
> during the time of Ooni Adesoji Aderemi but looking at that picture, he
> seemed to me like one who carried his office or authority with respect. But
> honestly, I don't know if I can say the same about the late Ooni, Sijuade.
> To me Ooni Sijuade was pompous and arrogant. But honestly, that is another
> topic for another day. BTW, did you seem Michael Okpara next to Zik. Michael
> Okpara was the typical Igbo born and bred with Igbo culture and tradition.
>
> Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye
>

>>>> CC: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com;

>>>> africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com;
>>>> omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com;
>>>> adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com;
>>>> nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk;
>>>> abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com;
>>>> femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com;

>>>> naijain...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com;

>>>> petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net;
>>>> ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com;
>>>> niger...@yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>>

>>>> And there you have it.
>>>>
>>>> Bolaji Aluko
>>>>

>>>> Ayo Ojutalayo
>>>>
>>>> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of
>>>> comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and
>>>> controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________

>>>> From: Nebukadineze via NaijaEvent < naija...@googlegroups.com>
>>>> To: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com
>>>> Cc: vin_mo...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com;

>>>> pach...@yahoo.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com;

>>>> badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com;
>>>> olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com;
>>>> topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; t
>>>>
>

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>
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[elombah daniel]

Dear all,

Methinks an Igbo guy that goes to marry a Yoruba girl will prostrate before his father in law, in deference to the tradition of his in-laws.

Just as the great Zik did the right thing here in bowing before the Ooni of Ife, if he pays a courtesy to the Ooni, perhaps while hunting for political support/votes.

I am from Nnewi, but married from Abia, as any Anambra man knows, there is very wide disparity between traditional marriage rites in Anambra and Abia states. Yet I still underwent certain observances according to the tradition of my in-laws that does not violate my principles,

So while I would ordinarily never bow before any human being, yet I may, if I so wish, prostrate before my father in law, if I were to marry from Yoruba land. I don't see anything wrong with that.

That is in keeping with the Igbo adages:

Nke onye diri ya.

Iga na mba, ime ka mba.

Nku di na mba na eghere mba nri.

Nke onye chiri, ya zere

Having said that, I doff my hat to Obi Nwakamma, his submissions were impeccable.

Ndewonu

 +447460770987

+44-2088087999

Every Nigerian that has something important to say, says it on www.elombah.com

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[Philip Achusim]

I did not see Zik bow to anyone. I saw Zik shakes hands with a guy. Period.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Ezeana,

Don't worry; you did not see the picture we are talking about. We are not talking about a picture showing Zik shaking hands with a guy.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: 'Philip Achusim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "ayooju...@yahoo.com" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; "odide...@yahoo.com" <odide...@yahoo.com>; "rexmari...@yahoo.com" <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; "ogbuo...@yahoo.com" <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; "ozodi...@gmail.com" <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:36 PM

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[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

Nwanna Chuks Agwunobi:

 

Thanks for giving me a good dosage of laughter this evening reading your very well crafted rejoinder to Nwanna Ezeani Achusim on your escapades with some Yoruba women.

 

This my Nwanna Chuks be something oooo! LOL!

 

Still Laughing out loud.

 

Cheers.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

From: Chukwuma S. Agwunobi [mailto:agw...@yahoo.com]
Sent: September-03-15 1:36 PM
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com
Cc: nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; alu...@gmail.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; Asagwara, Ken (EAL); ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com; NaijaObserver; Okonkwonetworks; anambra-w...@yahoo.com; Igbo World; New Nigerian Politics; talkn...@yahoo.com; talk...@yahoogroup.com
Subject: NWANNA NWA ACHUSIM: [NGBATI PEOPLE CARRY THEIR ARROGANT RESPECT TO POINT OF ABSURDITY] [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

Nwanna Nwa Achusim:

 

Ngbati, Ngbati people carry their so called respect to point of absurdity.

 

I remember playing GUITAR with this my Ngbati LOVER in Houston. Yes, you heard me right using the word LOVER because Ngbati ladies when they are involved in relationship with nice Igbo guys like me, they prefer you call each other’s LOVERS and not by names

 

They like calling each other’s LOVERS.

 

This my NGBATI LOVER is from EKITI with Master degree in Nursing, yellow, tall with figure 8 shape. Nwanna, you know I am a very greed guy with long throat when it comes to picking ladies.

 

I was the first man to show her what love is after so many disastrous relationships with two fucking Yeye Ngbati, Ngbati guys.

 

So it happened that we were playing GUITAR after drinking Champagne with this my Ngbati LOVER and as the Guitar was getting into our Medulla Oblongata, the phone rang.

 

Waoooo, who in the hell is this trying to disturb me, I said to myself? My EKITI Lover climbed down from the Bed; picked the phone and bent her kneels and said “Ekaro Egbon” [Good Morning brother]

 

I quickly dragged her back to the bed not because I don’t want her to greet or talk to her elder brother but for bending her Kneels while greeting her brother who will not know or see her bending her kneels.

 

I want her to be talking while I am doing and enjoying my GUITAR. I don’t play that nonsense with my GUITAR. She hanged the phone and said “CHUKWUMA, Orie Efo” [Chukwuma, your head no correct].

 

Ngbati people don’t know when to bend their fucking big heads and damn kneels.

 

Another example was a friend of my in Lagos, he had a Bucket of water on his head and while trying to bend his Fucking big Ngbati Owambe head to greet his dad, threw this bucket of water all over his dad who already dressed up to go to Owambe.

 

Another example was a lady who almost got killed bending her kneels to greet someone in heavy GO-SLOW at busy Oshodi Bus Stop. I saved her life that day by pushing her out of the way inside the gutter as Danfo was coming to her direction with fast speed.

 

Just tell me how Ngbati guys who are who are known for anti-Social behaviors with addiction and unquenchable appetites for Sugar Mummies 25-30 years older than them, will in one hand call such ladies or women  

 

Iya Bisi

 

Mama Dupe

 

Auntie Tosin” and in another hand is climbing the same “IYA BISI, MAMA DUPE, AUNTIE for hard core GUITAR.

 

Yeye people, I have told Ngbati people to stop telling us how morally bankrupt they are or I will keep exposing their cultures and traditions.

 

I wish ODUDUWAYO is alive today; I will give him everything he wants if he will agree to pack these Awufu lovers, extravagant spenders, lack of planning people and Sugar Mummy Lovers out of Nigeria and people like will not go through this nonsense with them.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

 

---

From: 'Philip Achusim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
To: "ayooju...@yahoo.com" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; "rexmari...@yahoo.com" <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "alu...@gmail.com" <alu...@gmail.com>; "nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; "ogbuo...@yahoo.com" <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; "ozodi...@gmail.com" <ozodi...@gmail.com>; NaijaObserver <naijao...@yahoogoups.com>; Okonkwonetworks <okonkwo...@googlegroups.com>; "anambra-w...@yahoo.com" <anambra-w...@yahoo.com>; Igbo World <igbowor...@yahoogroup.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:27 AM
Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

 

This picture does not tell the full story. Look at the Ooni. He was leaning too. And what was not shown was where the two embraced and had a hearty laugh about how Awolowo, Akintola and Balewa were in a trance as they watched Zik and Ooni do their thing.   Listen. The key is the knee. You either bend the knee or kneel down. Zik's knees were not bent, nor was he kneeling. It was the Ooni, from his looks, who was enthralled to meet Zik.   As Odi-Isaa, if I don't see those knees bent or the guy kneeling, I will not extend my hands to greet the sucker. But if you notice, Ooni was anxious to exchange greetings with Zik he dared not expect Zik to bend his knees or kneel. To get married to a lady, Yoruba folks do more than kneel or bend their knees. They fall flat on the bellies to beg. If they can fall flat on the bellies to beg a girl to marry them as Ayo and Afis and all the other usual suspects did when they got married, you can imagine what Awolowo and Akintola did when they greeted Ooni. Yes. They were on their knees. I have that photograph, and I will publish it if I can find it. People who fall flat on their bellies to beg a girl to marry them kneel when they greet Ooni. But Zik neither knelt nor bend his knees. Iyasikwa.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 11:42:38 AM, Ayo Ojutalayo wrote:

Imperial,   Thanks for yours below. The purpose of my posting the picture was to debunk Obi Nwakanma's "Igbo does not do this, Igbo does not do that". He did not say that "Some areas in Igbo land don't do this or that". Note that two days ago, I highlighted another Igbo saying Igbo brides in his area kneel to give drinks to bridegroom. This was after Obi had told us "Igbo does not kneel for another human being". I noticed that Obi and his kind are already trying to "explain" what happens in the photograph (Zik bowing to Ooni) we can all see with our korokoro eyes (I thought they say photographs don't lie!).

Does one need to say that Obi Nwakanma lacks credibility? He deliberately misinforms us on the forums in an attempt to present Igbo culture, Igbo tradition and Nigerian history (as it relates to Igbo) the way he wants us to believe and not the way they are. Did you read Ben Aduba saying he wished he had 10% of Obi Nwakanma's knowledge? Ben is much older than Obi. He therefore must be aware that Obi is not being truthful in what he writes. Another person that does what Obi does is Nebu. Nebu said the Constitution does not say Ministers should be appointed from every State, that it is laziness that makes people to say the Constitution says so. When the relevant sections of the Constitution was posted to show that he was wrong, he did not apologize because he knew he was lying when he said what he said. Yorubas have a saying to the effect that a long story is usually laced with lies. Note how Obi and Nebu use 1000 words to communicate what can conveniently be communicated with less than 500 words. Obi is said to be an academician. Gone are those days when we used to take whatever an academician wrote to bank.

Let's go back to enjoy how the photograph of Zik bowing to Ooni continues to be spinned!

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Imperial To: Ayo Ojutalayo Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com" ; Obi Nwakama ; "badu...@aol.com" ; "odide...@gmail.com" ; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" ; B o l a j i A l u k o ; Nebu ; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" ; "wharf...@yahoo.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" ; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" ; "pach...@yahoo.com" ; "adung...@yahoo.com" ; "stda...@gmail.com" ; "nationa...@yahoo.com" ; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" ; Abraham Madu ; "topc...@yahoo.com" ; "yemif...@gmail.com" ; "femmy...@yahoo.com" ; "therea...@yahoo.com" ; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" ; "petercl...@yahoo.com" ; "ejan...@yahoo.com" ; "guka...@comcast.net" ; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" ; Peter Opara ; "aim.s...@gmail.com" ; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" ; "rexma...@hotmail.com" ; Ozodi Osuji Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:23 AM Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Prince Ojutalayo,

Please don't be surprised my brother. Onitsha people are cultured differently from other Igbos. Kindly remember that Zik was from Onitsha, a town which has longer history of leadership and organized structure than most parts of Igbo land.

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 3, 2015, at 07:37, Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> If a true Igbo wants to take a title, for instance, he sits on a low carved stool, with four legs. He does not kneel. He does not bow. An array of all the men of title, each with his personal "Ofo ," form a circle around him before his personal shrine at the center of his compound, and they do what we call, "Isu Ofo Nze." When the "abuba Ugo" - the feather of the great Eagle - is stuck on his cap, he rises and takes four hand salutes with his horsewhip to indicate the equality and strength of his arms, and dances the dance of title, called 'Egwu Ozo" played on the "Epete" in my neck of the woods, and is joined in the dance by all men of title, and then his well-wishers. A man dies, and his title is buried with him. It is not inherited - "Chi Awughi Otu."In Igbo beliefs, therefore, we do not bow, because to bow to another is to say, "Chi Wam" - be my God. You cede the divine in you, according to that belief, and you insult the great creator of all things, who gave you being, and of whose essence you embody. >> It is not just a matter of cultural superiority, it is rooted in ancient Igbo religious beliefs. The only time a man bows to you symbolically is when he enters your "Obu/Ovu," because when you come to his own "Obu/ovu" you too will bow to him, and make your peace salutation. Children, from very early are thought to greet an elder by shaking their hands firmly. Elders themselves are obligated to instruct the young in the perfect ways of the land. The sum of all Igbo law is the law of balance - not of superiority. I will offer you just an example: in Igbo land, it is the least among us - the youngest - that is given the duty of sharing or dividing things held in common. And it is the right of the eldest, following a hierarchy to pick first. The logic is simple: we protect the weak by giving them power. Because he knows he will be the last to pick, the young must therefore strive to be just in "ike oke" - in the sharing. So you see, while age has its privileges, it also has its responsibilities. It is what the Igbo call, "Iha zi oke" - to establish balance and equity. So, for the Igbo, if bowing to your elders is the way of your world, may it be as you see fit with your gods. We do not bow, because, "Ala forbids." They who bow are "ohu." I salute you. >> Obi Nwakanma >> >> >> ________________________________ >> Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:05:46 +0100 >> Subject: [africanworldforum] Attention Nebu: Re: To Imperial: Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku >> From: alu...@gmail.com >> To: africanw...@googlegroups.com >> CC: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@yahoogroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com >> >> >> Nebukadineze Adeiel: >> Honestly, Ayo Ojutalayo got the better of you in this exchange below - and it is not because he is a friend (from university days) or he is like me Yoruba. It is just that when it comes to comparative culture, condemnations must be very measured. >> A people do not just arrive at a cultural practice by democratic means, by voting, and hence cannot eschew those practices by democratic means. Invariably, cultural practices - and their stoppage - occur either by internal or external force, invariably in a manner to enable the physical or social survival of the group. When a survival is no longer under threat, it can be done away with - or retained for historical or for cultural differentiation reason. >> For example, bowing down for an elder - or certain royalty - is a mark of respect in most cultures of the world. A few cultures - like that of the Yoruba - take it further and prostrate for the king and a select few elders - but not for EVERY older person or at every occassion. You may have to prostrate for somebody only in the morning, and not for the rest of the day. There may be reason to join others to prostrate for somebody in public, along with others, but not in private....and so on. WHY a particular practice occurs may be lost in the mist of time, but it is NEVER arbitrary. >> Is it every Yoruba cultural practice that I support? Absolutely not, even those ones that are relatively harmless. But I either hold my nose and practice them, or AVOID those arenas where my NOT practising them will show me as a cultural boor, because showing yourself as a cultural rebel for nothing is worthless. An Igbo man or European cannot now come and want to marry a Yoruba girl, and say that because they do not prostrate in Igboland or in Europe for elders, he will stand erect and shake the bride-to-be's father....even me, as non-traditional as I am, will require fulfillment of all cultural requirements before I marry off my three daughters, and I expect my two sons to do Likewise. >> By the way, my medical-school first daughter, born in the US almost thirty years ago has just spent six weeks in Ibadan, on a Fulbright exchange program at UI, to be steeped in Yoruba speaking and culture. She thoroughly enjoyed herself - her group also visited major Yoruba towns on the process. She even began to "pa owe" (speak in or tell proverbs) to me. But I quickly corrected her that on Yorubaland, younger persons do not "pa owe" to elders, and of at all, it must be with feigned deep apologies and permission. She apologized for her first errant attempt at showing off her new learning without that cultural nuance:-)

>> And there you have it. >> >> Bolaji Aluko >>

>> On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 7:05 AM, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via AfricanWorldForum < africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> Nebu: Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces). >> >> Response: Lagos "is not much of Yoruba land"? You are still in your dream land. >> How did you know that Onyeka's kneeling down to greet PMB was not a mark of any culture? Or have you spoken to her after the incident? >> >> Nebu: As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer. >> Response: Imperial was telling you what happens. He was not dignifying the practice. By the way, that the practice is unacceptable to you does not mean it is unacceptable to those doing it. After all, no one is forced to do it. >> >> Nebu: On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler. >> Response: Many of us including yours truely have heard from Igbo friends and acquaintances that Igbo culture does not care about respect for elders unlike other African cultures. Even on these forums, one could see that Igbo's culture does not respect. Vin Otuonye that was born in Yoruba land not long ago complained about "too much respect by Yorubas"! That is why you and your ilk do not hesitate to abuse and insult other Nigerians and Nigerian leaders dead and alive. >> Because Igbo does not have traditional rulers like the Yoruba Obas and Northern Emirs, you cannot understand why they are treated with reverence. If the Prime Minister of Britain bows to the Queen, why should a Governor not bow to an Oba? The Governors come and go, the institution of Obaship is there for ever. Stay away from what you cannot understand. >> >> Nebu: That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others. >> Response: It is not your business that Yorubas have no "drawn line between official and traditional roles". In actual fact, it is only in Igbo culture that there is the so called line drawn "between official and traditional roles". In all other geo-political zones in Nigeria, traditional rulers are respected by elected officials. They are traditional fathers of all, including the governors. >> >> Nebu: No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. >> Response: Are you saying an Igbo lady married to another culture should not assimilate and practise the culture of her new home? Onyeka's children are said to be Yorubas. Even non-Nigerians that marry Yorubas do kneel down to greet elders. >> >> Nebu: Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century. >> Response: Atiku is respected by the Governor because of his being an elder not because he was a Vice President. That is the respect for elders that is said to be lacking in Igbo culture. This respect is even appreciated by non-Africans. No one is forcing "Igbo people to copy" our way of life. There are over 200 cultures in Nigeria and none is forced on others. You are the one that should mind your business and stop criticizing others' way of life. >>

>> Ayo Ojutalayo >> >> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr >> >> ________________________________

>> From: Nebukadineze via NaijaEvent < naija...@googlegroups.com> >> To: wharf...@yahoo.com; imperi...@yahoo.com

>> Cc: vin_mo...@yahoo.com; naijao...@yahoogroups.com; pach...@yahoo.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; badu...@aol.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; olaka...@aol.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; naija...@googlegroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; oyo-...@yahoogroups.com; Naijadreamtea...@yahoogroups.co.uk >> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 8:39 PM >> Subject: To Imperial: ||NaijaObserver||Adamawa state governor sits on the floor for Atiku >> >> Imperial, >> I am not sure that you read what I wrote about Tinubu's bowing his head for Buhari (whether it was before or after his inauguration). Without repeating myself, let me just say that I found it acceptable -- you can read what I wrote a second time. >>

>> Onyeka Onwenu was not raised mostly in Yoroba land. She was raised in PH before the war and thereafter in her native Arondizuogu before she left for the US for her post secondary school education. To the best of my knowledge, she began residing in Lagos, which is not much of a Yoroba land, in the late 1980s when she was well over in her 30s. Her kneeling down to greet president Buhari was not a mark of any culture, it was a self seeking, a self humiliating, and a self shaming stunt that even chagrined Buhari (judging from his facial expression) and amused those standing by (judging by the grin on their faces). >>

>> As for your claim that some military governors sat on the floors as a mark of respect for their superiors, I don't know how you do not find such a conduct disturbing. Such a conduct is neither of a military tradition nor a part of an official etiquette. Such a conduct was the beginning of the decadence into which we have all found ourselves now -- when folks supplanted sycophancy and hero worshiping into the place of universally accepted official conduct. It is disgraceful and a person of your enlightenment should never dignify such a misnomer. >>

>> On the Igbo fellow informing you that he leant to respect elders only when he lived in Yoroba land, I find that incredible -- I believe that you misunderstood what he must have told you. I have no idea how some of you, especially Yoroba folks, came about this stereotype of Igbo folks not respecting their elders. We do respect our elders; we just don't worship them and we do withdraw the respect once the elder conducts him/herself dishonorable. We also know the demarcation between official protocol and cultural exhibition. An Igbo governor is the leader of the Igbos of his state in the type of government we operate. In that position, no Igbo governor will bow down to a traditional leader who is his inferior officially. Once out of office, the tune changes, the ex governor becomes inferior to the traditional ruler. >>

>> That recognition, of the drawn line between official and traditional roles, seems absent in Yoroba country. It is not a virtue worthy of priding about as done by lots of you Yorobas in this modern world. It is unworthy of copying by others. >>

>> That Igbos worship moneyed folks is a recent phenomenon of the late 1980s to now. In Igbo land of my father's and of my childhood, a person without character, no matter how wealthy, was never respected. When we were children, dad would point to we-we (marijuana) smokers and alcoholics as derelicts unworthy of emulating. From an early age, I began to loathe weed smokers and alcoholics because they were never respected by our people. A thief, no matter how wealthy, was neither respected nor allowed to speak in any gathering of Igbos during my childhood. Yes, it is true that wealthy people, even armed robbers and 419ners, command the most respect in Igbo land of today, but it was not always like that. Even though that is the norm now in Igbo land (most traditional leaders and politicians in Igbo of today are people who would have been shunned in Igboland of the 1970s and going backward), not every Igbo is in acceptance of that debauchery. I do not respect or associate with people without character or whose means of livelihood are not transparently honest. I have once told the story of backing out of chairing an Mbaise festival after I found out (about two weeks before the occasion) that a recently paroled 419ner had bought asoebi uniform for all the women and was sponsoring the occasion. I am not the only Igbo who rejects such associations. >>

>> No well brought up Igbo person would bow down to another human being -- not even under gunpoint would I do it. Curtsying or slightly bending down the head, may be, but bowing or kneeling down (as in Onyeka Onwenu's foolery) is an absolute no-no to any well brought up Igbo adult. Onyeka Onwenu's father, who was sort of known in Igbo politics of the first republic, must be tumbling in his grave over his daughter's sacrilegious behavior. >>

>> Nigeria is not the way it should be because we all seem confused. It is either we operate a democratic system or we go back into traditionalism or theocracy (in the case of the North). If we want to practice either of the above system, we must separate from one Nigeria to allow others live and practice as is acceptable to them. It is insulting of you to ask Igbo people to copy your way of life that is not ennobling of the person. Without the person, there is no community and without a community there is no country or a people. In America, we call that concept, "we, the people". The concept of a state governor sitting down on the floor in deference to a man who ceased to be VP almost a decade ago, or of a governor bowing down to an Oba, is disrespectful of the people -- it makes the people inferior to the personalities. Not only must it not be emulated, it also ought to be discarded in the 21st century. >> >>

>> Nebukadineze Adiele >> Reject Religion; Relive Reason! >> >> >> >> >>

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 6:52:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wharf...@yahoo.com writes: >> >> Imperial my friend, >> Was it Yoruba culture before the loss at Ilorin to the Fulani or after? Please back up with verifiable historical artifacts. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Ejo ni Mushin - Prince >> >> On Aug 30, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Imperial < imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Nebu, >> Buhari wasn't president when the above photo with Bola Tinubu was taken but kindly note that it's part of Yoruba and northern culture for one to respect people who are older including the current and past leaders. That Bola Tinubu bowed to Buhari isn't strange to the majority of Yoruba people as it's our culture to respect elders . From all available records, Buhari was already our military head of state before Tinubu was appointed Treasurer of Mobil Oil Nigeria at Bookshop House,Lagos. If you were in his shoes,would you have acted otherwise ? >> During the military era in Nigeria, many state governors always sit on the carpet when meeting or talking to a superior or top military officer eg a two star officer like General Ishola Williams. It's a Northern culture adopted countrywide by the military to show respect to elders or bosses . >> A young Igbo man in his mid 30s once told me that he learned how to respect elders when he came to secondary school in Lagos and that in the East respect is accorded to people based to wealth hence everybody around him looks for money desperately. Ms Onyeka Onwenu was bred largely in Lagos; it's unlikely she would restrict herself to only Igbo traditions and culture. As you probably aware, Dr Mike Adenuga( in his early 60s ) perhaps is the richest Yoruba man around today, it's impossible for him to address an older man of say in his 70s by name or talk rudely to such person except they engage in a very serious quarrel. >> In the UK, China and Japan and many other civilized countries, you have to curtsey or kowtow when meeting important people, like the Queens, Kings and other leaders. I hope our brothers and sisters who haven't adopted this culture - which is common among all Africans - should try to borrow a leaf from others as it promotes orderliness and organized structure which wasn't in place in some part of Nigeria when Lord Lugard took over the control of the country over a century ago . >>

>> Sent from my iPad

>> On Aug 30, 2015, at 13:35, Nebuka...@aol.com wrote: >> >> Vin Modebelu, >> You should have included that Onyeka Onwenu idolatrous picture too. I would starve to death than conduct myself in any of this shameful obsequiousness. Just imagine a whole governor of a state sitting on a dirty floor upon which shoes, possibly stepped on human and animal feces, were stepped on a few minutes prior, just to defer to a wealthy former Vice President of Nigeria? That pathetic symbolism is that of Atiku Abubakar standing on the entire people of Adamawa state. Tufiakwa! >>

>> With respect to Tinubu, much is not wrong with his mien, he was just acknowledging the current status of president Buhari by bending his head for him. There is nothing wrong in so doing -- former president Clinton did it for president Obama after giving a speech at the last Democratic Party's National Convention (Obama will do similarly for his successor); former president Obasanjo did so for then sitting president Jonathan and now sitting president Buhari. Granted that Tinubu bowed too low, he is still within a reasonable conduct -- he was sort of ushering the president into his new status; it is officially acceptable from former leaders. >> >> Onyeka Onwenu deserves to be fined by Ndi Igbo for her depraved worshiping of her fellow human being, something frowned upon by Igbo culture -- that picture cannot escape my memory and it galls me steadily.

>> >> As for the stupid governors who are bowing to Obas, in a republican democratic nation, they are subjecting their mandates to these Obas' superiority. Ironically, the Nigerian constitution makes the Obas inferior to governors who can query and even remove them from their thrones. But most of these governors were either 'money missed roads' or intellectual nobodies before becoming governors, so they still suffer the inferiority complex of not recognizing the implications of their positions or of their obsequious actions. This is why a confederation is better for Nigeria, so that folks can worship their fellow human beings without such conduct chagrining others of the same country. >>

>> Nebukadineze Adiele >> Reject Religion; Relive Reason! >> >> >> >> >>

>> In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:00:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, vin_mo...@yahoo.com writes: >> >> This is pure loyalty....for monies and lively hood. >> The Governor had already appointed Atikus daughter as the Commissioner for health. Atiku now owns Adamawa. >> the Obas sit on the floor for Asiwaju too. Asiwaju prostrates for Buhari >> The Governors lie face down for the Obas . >> Many humans lie face down in the streets for governors. >> vin...../// >> ....Born to tell the truth >> ....they are listening indeed >> ... thick walls will fall >> < https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/t8vEOGd56Jz3oT99_i5NimWqisjGHbpdnQ-nI73H0SKIscO_GAcmpi8pL66nTNcOWdYdZI2sdrVGPVaS0dIWrpMxdRF_czZMcSFk_YTzyyWULTgKX4Jz=s0-d-e1-ft#https://krazyinsidekenya.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wpid-001.jpg> >> >> >> "Loyalty Or Culture"; Caption This Photo Of Adamawa State Governor Sitting On The Floor In Atiku's Presence >> >> < https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cvMgx42_nw0/VeKzxal_WhI/AAAAAAAA8hA/BeTg3MI0mLQ/s400/vdef.jpg> >> >> Adamawa state governor, Jibrila Bindow, pictured sitting on the floor at the residence of former vice president Atiku Abubakar. Is this a form of loyalty or just culture >> http://www.nationalhelm.com/2015/08/loyalty-or-culture-caption-this-photo.html >> >> < https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/ZLQFEh9VRKPNe_aI1gbn2Mshz4YTYgmiy531-Lx5fTepOZ5zR1hmZ7memrG_1cJ5TCFPIADQsIQGLnPA3c5ocCLFE_9781GIUfJw-UymCfYscp4VffhEWot_3df9Ixe2xYyTv6UvhEOu2SUx_Ps22w=s0-d-e1-ft#http://gist212.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0a7c24526228ddd924bd233c4ee0ba5f12a28332.jpg> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> = >> >> --

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[olaka...@aol.com]

Ayo and Pa Ezeana:

Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder,
it  is also possible that a bowing gesture could
also be in the eye of beholder.

Pa Ezeana sees a simple handshake in the picture
whilst 99% of all sighted human beings would
interpret the gesture in the posted picture as a bow.

An additional difference between bowing to
show respect and a simple hand shake is one
of making or not making direct eye contact
with the one being greeted with a bow at the exact moment
of the bowing gesture.

Look at the pic again:

Did the Great Zik of Africa make eye contact with HRH Adesoji Aderemi at the moment of his
gesture towards Oba Adesoji Aderemi?

To help out a little bit on this issue--I sought
some definitions for 'bow'--the one about showing
respect or gratitude and not the one relating to a ship.

Please visit any one of these dictionary links:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/bow

http://www.yourdictionary.com/bow

http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/bow1_1

I sincerely hope that the above links would clarify the issue relating to the Great Zik of Africa's
gesture towards Oba Adesoji Aderemi, then Ooni of Ile-Ife.

Bye,

Ola

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

" . .  if you are Igbo, please pardon me for my  mistake. I spilled some beans." . . . . Dan. Akusobi

Dan,

You spilled no beans. Your mum's advice to your uncle is what people do when they travel to a different society if they want to live in peace and happiness. The question is "why is it necessary for an Igbo to be given the advice at all, since it is an obvious requirement in any strange land?" If every Igbo takes your mum's advice as you and your uncle did, I am sure Igbo will stop experiencing crisis with natives every where Igbo resides. 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: daniel Akusobi <daku...@gmail.com>
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

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[Asagwara, Ken (EAL)]

Ayo:

 

In which parts of Nigeria are the Igbo experiencing crisis that some other ethnic nationalities have been immune from? Have you not been reading about the ethnic clashed between the Hausa/Fulani and the Beroms in Jos?

 

Are ununaware of the fights that often erupt between the Hausa community in some Yoruba states and members of the Yoruba communities? Have you been following what goes on in the NE States of the country?

 

Other than the pogroms of 1966 resulting from the first military coup, where are the crisis the Igbo as an ethnic nation experience on any regular basis with your so-called natives? Perhaps, you are alluding to the recent gaffe in calling for genocide against the Igbo by your Oba in Lagos and his Diaspora acolyte son resident in the USA. Each time you write your jaundiced opinion on the Igbo, you forget many of your Yoruba folks continue to troop down to Igbo land for marriage with Igbo sons and daughters. If the Igbo are very restive with Nigeria’s other ethnic nationalities as you believe, why don’t you, “peaceful” folks let us be and go your own separate ways? Yet, each time any Igbo broaches the idea of finding their own separate country, you folks start wetting you pants in panic.

 

How many times have I said to you and other ignorants of your ilk that want to wish the Igbo away that without the Igbo ethnic nation of Nigeria, Nigeria our country will not be as viable socially, economically, educationally, developmentally, structurally, culturally, entertainment, etc., you name it. Chew upon this instance, if you have the objective mind to do so. Because of the Nollywood industry, outsiders who may never know nor hear about Nigeria today, long to be Nigerians or associate with Nigerians. Go to every village in Africa where folks own TV sets, 85% of their local entertainment is Nigeria’s Nollywood.

 

Shuoo, I say to your kind of Yorubas that hate Ndi-Igbo for no just cause except silly envy. I am Igbo and ever proud of my Igbo heritage. You don’t appreciate my Igbo-centrism, go jump in the lake.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

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[Oke Osisi " Common Sense, Uncommon Knowledge "]

Bowing to elders is nothing new in Igbo land.  It's been an age old practice.  Anyone who says otherwise is not being truthful. Besides, everyone entering the court in Nigeria bow to the judge and magistrate. 

Oke Osisi

"Common Sense, Uncommon Knowledge"

Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® 3

-------- Original message --------
From: 'Philip Achusim' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 09/03/2015 5:36 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com, africanw...@googlegroups.com, imperi...@yahoo.com
Cc: ayooju...@yahoo.com, odide...@yahoo.com, rexmari...@yahoo.com, badu...@aol.com, omo...@yahoogroups.com, nebuka...@aol.com, naijain...@googlegroups.com, wharf...@yahoo.com, nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com, vin_mo...@yahoo.com, adung...@yahoo.com, stda...@gmail.com, nationa...@yahoo.com, ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk, abraha...@yahoo.com, topc...@yahoo.com, yemif...@gmail.com, femmy...@yahoo.com, therea...@yahoo.com, ekuju...@yahoo.com, petercl...@yahoo.com, ejan...@yahoo.com, guka...@comcast.net, ken.as...@gov.mb.ca, ogbuo...@yahoo.com, aim.s...@gmail.com, niger...@yahoogroups.com, rexma...@hotmail.com, ozodi...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 3, 2015, at 21:39, Philip Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Ayo: I hope you become the next Ooni. At 6 feet, I will have to stoop low enough as I go through the doors to see which dames are there in your palace to keep me company for the night. I understand the door to the guest room is only 5 feet tall. After your coronation as the new Ooni of Ile Ife, I will be your first overnight guest to check out ife ndi Ile Ife have for their Royal overnight guest. Ile efi is my favorite whenever I am in Ile Ife. Ile efi goes well with egusi as only Ile Ife can manufacture in their kitchen. Ayo. If there is anything Ezeana be an do to help you become the next Oini, don't hesitate to call on me. And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 2:21:06 PM, Ayo Ojutalayo wrote:

Bolaji, These our Igbo friends (Nebu, Ezeana, Vin and Ken) will have no choice but to bow should I become Ooni. I will politely ask them to be taught in public if they greet me in public without bowing. If Zik could, I won't accept any thing less from any Nigerian.

Ayo Ojutalayo “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Mobolaji Aluko To: Imperial Cc: afis ; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" ; Obi Nwakama ; "badu...@aol.com" ; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" ; Nebu ; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" ; "wharf...@yahoo.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" ; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" ; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim ; "adung...@yahoo.com" ; "stda...@gmail.com" ; "nationa...@yahoo.com" ; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" ; Abraham Madu ; "topc...@yahoo.com" ; "yemif...@gmail.com" ; "femmy...@yahoo.com" ; "therea...@yahoo.com" ; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" ; "petercl...@yahoo.com" ; "ejan...@yahoo.com" ; "guka...@comcast.net" ; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" ; Peter Opara ; "aim.s...@gmail.com" ; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" ; "rexma...@hotmail.com" ; Ozodi Osuji Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:09 PM

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Imperial: May your tribe increase! The interesting thing is that a "Prince Ojutalayo" has just entered the race for the Ooni-ship in Ile-Ife. I am not saying that it is our very own Ayo, but in the event that it is, it would mean that Zik of Africa once bowed down for Ayo - even if anachronistically - and Vin, Obi, Ezaeana, Ken and all these other Igbo siblings of ours better start taking lessons in bow-man-ship, and start lining up. I may have to stop calling Ayo by his name soon.

And there you have it. Bolaji Aluko

On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com> wrote: > The incontrovertible evidence presented by Prince Ayo Ojutalayo has sealed the entire argument. Zik of Africa was the greatest Igbo man known to history so his sayings and deeds should be reference point to all discerning Igbo people around the world . This photo has contracted the widely held belief that all Igbos are unruly and uncultured ; it also lends credence to another historical facts that there is a form of cultural linkage between the Onitsha people , Edo people and Yoruba people . > NEBU please surrender ! >

> Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 16:39, afis <odide...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Vin Otuonye, you see why you call yourself "Olodo"? > Zik was seen bowing to greet a King, you are now talking foolishly. > So, if you visit Queen of England you won't bow, and a woman won't bend at the knee? > Then you foolishly try to move the soccer post to fit your banana shot. Why don't you bring out Okpara's picture at the same event showing he did not bow? > You are a lawyer, you mouthing don't bring out any doubts unless you show us some counter-picture. > Shikena > afis > > ________________________________ > From: Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> > To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>

> Cc: africanworld <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "odide...@gmail.com" <odide...@gmail.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; Ezeana Igirigi Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 7:55 AM > Subject: [africanworldforum] RE: Bolaji: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

> > Aluko: > > Don't confuse things. I have no problem showing and giving respect to an elder. It has nothing to do with any prideful self-esteem. But understand that respect, even when you give it to elders, is earned. I don't throw respect to a juvenile fool on account that he's older. I was not around during the time of Ooni Adesoji Aderemi but looking at that picture, he seemed to me like one who carried his office or authority with respect. But honestly, I don't know if I can say the same about the late Ooni, Sijuade. To me Ooni Sijuade was pompous and arrogant. But honestly, that is another topic for another day. BTW, did you seem Michael Okpara next to Zik. Michael Okpara was the typical Igbo born and bred with Igbo culture and tradition. > > Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye >

> ________________________________

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[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"I am not jealous of my namesake. I am delighted that God gave him wisdom. And courage to speak out lucidly and to convert the Gentiles of Igbo culture to the truth." . . . Ben Aduba

Mr Ben Aduba,

• The "wisdom and courage" to tell the world that Igbo does not kneel for another human being while another Igbo told us brides do kneel to give bridegroom drink?
  
• The "wisdom and courage" to tell the world that Igbo does not bow to another human being when a photograph shows that Zik bowed to Ooni Aderemi.
  
• The "wisdom and courage" to tell the world that the photograph that the whole world saw did not convey what it obviously conveyed.
  

 If you cannot stop the young ones from telling lies, you should at least not encourage them to be telling lies.

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Baduba54 <badu...@aol.com>
To: alu...@gmail.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com
Cc: imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:48 PM

Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Mr. Ayo Ojutalayo,

Yes, Mr. Aluko is right for the first time in his life. Mr. Nwakanma is young enough to be my son (my oldest son is 42). But he is only half right. Wisdom in not distributed on annual basis so that if you are 100 years you have say 100 and a 42 year old would have just 42. No that is not the way it is. God gives more to some and less to others. Thus Joseph had more than his siblings, Moses had it more than most Israelites and Our Lord Jesus Christ at 30 confounded the Pharisees and the Scribes who were much older.

 

I am not jealous of my namesake. I am delighted that God gave him wisdom. And courage to speak out lucidly and to convert the Gentiles of Igbo culture to the truth.

oo eziokwu.

 

Aduba

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>

To: Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Imperial <imperi...@yahoo.com>; africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; nigerianworldforum <nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com>; Obi Nwakama <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; baduba54 <badu...@aol.com>; odidere2012 <odide...@gmail.com>; omoodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Nebu <nebuka...@aol.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; wharfsnake <wharf...@yahoo.com>; nigerianworldforum <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; vin_modebelu <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; pachusim <pach...@yahoo.com>; adungbemorg <adung...@yahoo.com>; stdawodu <stda...@gmail.com>; nationalvision <nationa...@yahoo.com>; ijebujesa <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; Abraham Madu <abraha...@yahoo.com>; topcrestt <topc...@yahoo.com>; yemifash64 <yemif...@gmail.com>; femmylawson <femmy...@yahoo.com>; therealsegun <therea...@yahoo.com>; ekujuminel <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; peterclaver2000 <petercl...@yahoo.com>; ejanafish <ejan...@yahoo.com>; gukaegbu <guka...@comcast.net>; ken.asagwara <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; Peter Opara <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; aim.ssanyi <aim.s...@gmail.com>; nigerianid <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; rexmarinus <rexma...@hotmail.com>; Ozodi Osuji <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 3, 2015 2:41 pm

Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Ayo Ojutalayo:

I just cannot understand it. Pa Obi Aduba was born in 1930+something, early or late. Obi Nwakanma was born in 5ecember 1966, on the eve of the war, airlifted by CARITAS to Gabon on his way to the USA, and like my daughter may have spent no more than six weeks total on Igbo soil ever since.  

Now Obi Aduba says he does not know one-tenth of Igbo culture compared to Obi Nwakanma?

Tufiakawa! Omebiremebi!

Obi mesmerizes his Igbo compatriots with English, while throwing here and there Igbo cultural gems of dubious validity. He, they and their brigade begin to hem and haw when caught in a major cultural scandal as we currently have in our hands, courtesy your humble self, Zik a-bowed before the Ooni.

I have already blown up that picture, and I am about to frame it, as an pictoral ode to Igbo respect. I don't like it when Igbo people are lied upon, particularly by some Igbo in the Diaspora.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

PS: Where is Ken Asagwara? He will soon re-surface, and tell us he was busy somewhere else while all of this was going on. Actually, I believe that is looking for a good entry point for his bear-bear! :-)

On Thursday, September 3, 2015, Ayo Ojutalayo < ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Imperial,
> Thanks for yours below. The purpose of my posting the picture was to debunk Obi Nwakanma's "Igbo does not do this, Igbo does not do that". He did not say that "Some areas in Igbo land don't do this or that". Note that two days ago, I highlighted another Igbo saying Igbo brides in his area kneel to give drinks to bridegroom. This was after Obi had told us "Igbo does not kneel for another human being". I noticed that Obi and his kind are already trying to "explain" what happens in the photograph (Zik bowing to Ooni) we can all see with our korokoro eyes (I thought they say photographs don't lie!). 
> Does one need to say that Obi Nwakanma lacks credibility? He deliberately misinforms us on the forums in an attempt to present Igbo culture, Igbo tradition and Nigerian history (as it relates to Igbo) the way he wants us to believe and not the way they are. Did you read Ben Aduba saying he wished he had 10% of Obi Nwakanma's knowledge? Ben is much older than Obi. He therefore must be aware that Obi is not being truthful in what he writes. Another person that does what Obi does is Nebu. Nebu said the Constitution does not say Ministers should be appointed from every State, that it is laziness that makes people to say the Constitution says so. When the relevant sections of the Constitution was posted to show that he was wrong, he did not apologize because he knew he was lying when he said what he said. Yorubas have a saying to the effect that a long story is usually laced with lies. Note how Obi and Nebu use 1000 words to communicate what can conveniently be communicated with less than 500 words. Obi is said to be an academician. Gone are those days when we used to take whatever an academician wrote to bank.
> Let's go back to enjoy how the photograph of Zik bowing to Ooni continues to be spinned!

> Ayo Ojutalayo
>
> “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr
>
>

> Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi
>

> Prince Ojutalayo,
> Please don't be surprised my brother.  Onitsha people are cultured differently from other Igbos. Kindly remember that Zik was from Onitsha, a town which has longer history of leadership and organized structure than most parts of Igbo land. 
>

> Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 07:37, Ayo Ojutalayo < ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

[Chika Onyeani]

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[Philip Achusim]

Nwanna: If that is the case, why the fuss about Ooni of Ile Ife bowing or not bowing to Zik? Are you sure you understand the issue here? I don't think you do. Where I come from and in the rest of Igbo land, we know the various ways we apologize or give thanks to one another. Ima afo na ani. You start ima afor na ani and the other party will ask you not to complete the process. Heck. When I receive a fat check, I know what I do so that the sucker can write better and bigger checks every time. But when a mere handshake is being interpreted as anything else, I will not let anyone get away with a prejudiced interpretation. A still photograph cannot tell the full story. What were they saying to each other? You can say something to someone, or call his special name and he takes a bow. You pay a fortune to watch a thespian like me on stage, at the conclusion of the play, with thunderous applause, we take a bow. Are we bowing really to even ofeke and okporoko in the audience? All I know is that the picture shows Zik shaking hands with Ooni. If Ooni was sitting while Zik was standing, and Ooni was of good health, then the issue would be what was Zik demanding of Ooni? May be Zik was interested in one of Ooni's palace girls.

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

[Philip Achusim]

Ayo: In which picture was Zik bowing to Ooni? If Ooni was all that, how come he was not seated? If I was his protocol chief, he would be seated while the suckers line up to get his blessings. With him seated, every one will be forced to keel over to shake his hands. And I would have it in a vedeo so folks like you will never deny that your Ooni bowed to Igwe. By the way, what was the Ooni doing at Onitsha when this photo was snapped?

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 8:34:55 PM, Ayo Ojutalayo wrote:

"I am not jealous of my namesake. I am delighted that God gave him wisdom. And courage to speak out lucidly and to convert the Gentiles of Igbo culture to the truth." . . . Ben Aduba Mr Ben Aduba, The "wisdom and courage" to tell the world that Igbo does not kneel for another human being while another Igbo told us brides do kneel to give bridegroom drink? The "wisdom and courage" to tell the world that Igbo does not bow to another human being when a photograph shows that Zik bowed to Ooni Aderemi. The "wisdom and courage" to tell the world that the photograph that the whole world saw did not convey what it obviously conveyed. If you cannot stop the young ones from telling lies, you should at least not encourage them to be telling lies. Ayo Ojutalayo “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: Baduba54

To: alu...@gmail.com; ayooju...@yahoo.com Cc: imperi...@yahoo.com; africanw...@googlegroups.com; nigerianw...@yahoogoups.com; rexmari...@yahoo.com; odide...@gmail.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; nebuka...@aol.com; naijain...@googlegroups.com; wharf...@yahoo.com; nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com; vin_mo...@yahoo.com; pach...@yahoo.com; adung...@yahoo.com; stda...@gmail.com; nationa...@yahoo.com; ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk; abraha...@yahoo.com; topc...@yahoo.com; yemif...@gmail.com; femmy...@yahoo.com; therea...@yahoo.com; ekuju...@yahoo.com; petercl...@yahoo.com; ejan...@yahoo.com; guka...@comcast.net; ken.as...@gov.mb.ca; ogbuo...@yahoo.com; aim.s...@gmail.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com; rexma...@hotmail.com; ozodi...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Zik bows as respect to Ooni Adesoji Aderemi

Mr. Ayo Ojutalayo, Yes, Mr. Aluko is right for the first time in his life. Mr. Nwakanma is young enough to be my son (my oldest son is 42). But he is only half right. Wisdom in not distributed on annual basis so that if you are 100 years you have say 100 and a 42 year old would have just 42. No that is not the way it is. God gives more to some and less to others. Thus Joseph had more than his siblings, Moses had it more than most Israelites and Our Lord Jesus Christ at 30 confounded the Pharisees and the Scribes who were much older. I am not jealous of my namesake. I am delighted that God gave him wisdom. And courage to speak out lucidly and to convert the Gentiles of Igbo culture to the truth. oo eziokwu. Aduba

-----Original Message----- From: Mobolaji Aluko

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

"Bowing to elders is nothing new in Igbo land.  It's been an age old practice.  Anyone who says otherwise is not being truthful. Besides, everyone entering the court in Nigeria bow to the judge and magistrate." . . . Oke Osisi

 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: "Oke Osisi " Common Sense, Uncommon Knowledge" <ojig...@yahoo.com>
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "ayooju...@yahoo.com" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; "odide...@yahoo.com" <odide...@yahoo.com>; "rexmari...@yahoo.com" <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; "ogbuo...@yahoo.com" <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; "ozodi...@gmail.com" <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 9:32 PM

[Philip Achusim]

Ayo: Ooni and Zik, who was the elder?

And I am Ezeana Achusim Odi-Isaa Nwa Dim Orioha AKA Onyeukwu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Sep 3, 2015, 9:26:30 PM, 'Ayo Ojutalayo' via NaijaEvent wrote:

"Bowing to elders is nothing new in Igbo land. It's been an age old practice. Anyone who says otherwise is not being truthful. Besides, everyone entering the court in Nigeria bow to the judge and magistrate." . . . Oke Osisi Ayo Ojutalayo “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

From: "Oke Osisi " Common Sense, Uncommon Knowledge"

To: africanw...@googlegroups.com; "imperi...@yahoo.com" Cc: "ayooju...@yahoo.com" ; "odide...@yahoo.com" ; "rexmari...@yahoo.com" ; "badu...@aol.com" ; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" ; "nebuka...@aol.com" ; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" ; "wharf...@yahoo.com" ; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" ; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" ; "adung...@yahoo.com" ; "stda...@gmail.com" ; "nationa...@yahoo.com" ; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" ; "abraha...@yahoo.com" ; "topc...@yahoo.com" ; "yemif...@gmail.com" ; "femmy...@yahoo.com" ; "therea...@yahoo.com" ; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" ; "petercl...@yahoo.com" ; "ejan...@yahoo.com" ; "guka...@comcast.net" ; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" ; "ogbuo...@yahoo.com" ; "aim.s...@gmail.com" ; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" ; "rexma...@hotmail.com" ; "ozodi...@gmail.com"

[Ayo Ojutalayo]

Ezeana,

Ooni was Action Group while Zik was NCNC. Bcause cock was NCNC's emblem, Ooni jokingly told Zik that Zik was too found of eating chicken to the extent that hens stay indoor (refused to go out) whenever Zik was in a town to campaign. That was why Zik and others were beaming with smile.

 

Ayo Ojutalayo

“The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. ” . . . Martin Luther King Jr

---

From: Philip Achusim <pach...@yahoo.com>
To: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "imperi...@yahoo.com" <imperi...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "ayooju...@yahoo.com" <ayooju...@yahoo.com>; "odide...@yahoo.com" <odide...@yahoo.com>; "rexmari...@yahoo.com" <rexmari...@yahoo.com>; "badu...@aol.com" <badu...@aol.com>; "omo...@yahoogroups.com" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; "nebuka...@aol.com" <nebuka...@aol.com>; "naijain...@googlegroups.com" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "wharf...@yahoo.com" <wharf...@yahoo.com>; "nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com" <nigerianw...@yahoogroups.com>; "vin_mo...@yahoo.com" <vin_mo...@yahoo.com>; "adung...@yahoo.com" <adung...@yahoo.com>; "stda...@gmail.com" <stda...@gmail.com>; "nationa...@yahoo.com" <nationa...@yahoo.com>; "ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk" <ijeb...@yahoo.co.uk>; "abraha...@yahoo.com" <abraha...@yahoo.com>; "topc...@yahoo.com" <topc...@yahoo.com>; "yemif...@gmail.com" <yemif...@gmail.com>; "femmy...@yahoo.com" <femmy...@yahoo.com>; "therea...@yahoo.com" <therea...@yahoo.com>; "ekuju...@yahoo.com" <ekuju...@yahoo.com>; "petercl...@yahoo.com" <petercl...@yahoo.com>; "ejan...@yahoo.com" <ejan...@yahoo.com>; "guka...@comcast.net" <guka...@comcast.net>; "ken.as...@gov.mb.ca" <ken.as...@gov.mb.ca>; "ogbuo...@yahoo.com" <ogbuo...@yahoo.com>; "aim.s...@gmail.com" <aim.s...@gmail.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "rexma...@hotmail.com" <rexma...@hotmail.com>; "ozodi...@gmail.com" <ozodi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:10 PM