Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

[Joe Attueyi]

http://punchng.com/ugbo-people-dont-marry-ladies-fair-complexion-oba-olugbo-ugbo/


Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Igietseme]

Pastor Joe Attueyi,

If this historical account of the birth of Oduduwa's dynasty by a Yoruba Chieftain [Oba Obateru Akinruntan is the monarch of Ugbo kingdom, Ondo State] is accurate, why have we been arguing about which comes first: Izoduwa going to Ile-Ife or Oranmiyan going to Benin?

In particular, read this excerpt that would clearly indicate that "at a point in Yoruba history, a personality from the East [Izoduwa/Oduduwa from Mecca or Edo Kingdom]:

""Question: Recently, you published an excerpt of your book referring to the Ugbo stool as the oldest in Yorubaland. This claim appears to be in contrast with the history of Yorubaland, can you shed some light on your claim?

Oba Obateru: If you read some of the articles which I wrote, I said it without any contradiction that I am the owner of the Yoruba nation. They claim that Oduduwa is the progenitor of the Yoruba race, yet he met my great-great grandfather, Oba Makin Osangangan, the son of Oraife in Ife. If you go to Ife today, they would testify to it because a lot of books have been written and they acknowledge this fact.

A son of Ife, Dr. Moses Ajetunmobi, also wrote that when Oduduwa arrived at Ife, he met 13 communities and that Oduduwa came from Mecca. I was invited during the launching of the book and the late Oba Sijuwade wrote the dedication to the book. The late Oba wrote that he agreed with the findings of the erudite author. Also, the late Oba of Benin, a nice and brilliant monarch who I respected so much said in his book that the only Oba he respected in the South West is the Oba Olugbo of Ugbo, who resides in Ilaje and is the owner of Ife. If we are talking about the history of this country, the man was very rich, eloquent and brilliant. He knew a lot of things about this country. I remember some years back when I was with the Alaafin of Oyo, Oba Lamidi Adeyemi, and he said to me, ‘Olugbo your father is the owner of Ile Ife’.

I have about 2000 authorities I can quote over this subject because I travel far and wide to study. I went to Portugal, Germany and I also visited the national archives in London. These are the places you can get our book; you cannot get any book here in Nigeria because most of our books have been distorted because they don’t want the truth to be known.""

Na wa....haha! Take care. JUI [had a refreshing time-out from Naija egroups!]

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Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo

September 17, 2016

Akinruntan

Oba Obateru Akinruntan is the monarch of Ugbo kingdom, Ondo State. He tells Ademola Olonilua in this interview how he emerged the king and the place of his kingdom in Yoruba history

Were you approached to become a monarch or was it a decision you took on your own?

We have one ruling house and four segments in all. To cut the long story short, the stool was monopolised by one of them for a long time without any plan to relinquish the post for others. So the other segments went to court and they won. After the judgement, I was invited to become the Oba. When they invited me, who am I to say no? I was invited.

What has kingship status changed about your life?

Before I became king, whenever I travelled and I saw roasted plantain and groundnuts, I normally stopped to buy them but I cannot do that now. When I was just a business man, I would stop to buy the roasted plantain and I could even sit down with the seller and eat it there but now, I cannot do it, I miss that a lot.

How did you feel when Forbes Magazine ranked you as the richest monarch in Nigeria and the second richest monarch in Africa?

The people that came out with that list know what they saw before they came out with the ranking, I don’t know what they saw. I don’t know the people that rated me; neither do I know how they came about the rating. Mine is to look at my purse to know whether I am being flattered or not. When you hear such a thing, you will be happy but I do not know the people that came out with the ratings.

But what is your net worth?

I don’t know how much I am worth.  I would not tell a lie but I do not know what I am worth in this country and in the world but I know that I am living well and I can afford my three square meals a day.

How do you relax?

When I wake up in the morning as early as 6am, I run round the house then I spend some time in the gym doing some exercises. After that, I have my bath and take breakfast. Sometimes I listen to music. I read a lot of books about the Yoruba race and I am very conversant with our ethnic history. I also read international journals.

 Recently, you published an excerpt of your book referring to the Ugbo stool as the oldest in Yorubaland. This claim appears to be in contrast with the history of Yorubaland, can you shed some light on your claim?

If you read some of the articles which I wrote, I said it without any contradiction that I am the owner of the Yoruba nation. They claim that Oduduwa is the progenitor of the Yoruba race, yet he met my great-great grandfather, Oba Makin Osangangan, the son of Oraife in Ife. If you go to Ife today, they would testify to it because a lot of books have been written and they acknowledge this fact.

A son of Ife, Dr. Moses Ajetunmobi, also wrote that when Oduduwa arrived at Ife, he met 13 communities and that Oduduwa came from Mecca. I was invited during the launching of the book and the late Oba Sijuwade wrote the dedication to the book. The late Oba wrote that he agreed with the findings of the erudite author. Also, the late Oba of Benin, a nice and brilliant monarch who I respected so much said in his book that the only Oba he respected in the South West is the Oba Olugbo of Ugbo, who resides in Ilaje and is the owner of Ife. If we are talking about the history of this country, the man was very rich, eloquent and brilliant. He knew a lot of things about this country. I remember some years back when I was with the Alaafin of Oyo, Oba Lamidi Adeyemi, and he said to me, ‘Olugbo your father is the owner of Ile Ife’.

I have about 2000 authorities I can quote over this subject because I travel far and wide to study. I went to Portugal, Germany and I also visited the national archives in London. These are the places you can get our book; you cannot get any book here in Nigeria because most of our books have been distorted because they don’t want the truth to be known.

What is the place of Ugbo land in the story of Moremi?

Many people must have read about the Moremi episode. The Ugbos raided Ife many times, so they consulted Ifa and Osanyin for a solution. The oracle told them to put a beautiful lady in the market and they put Moremi there who later betrayed the Ugbo people. This is why she is never celebrated in Ugbo. We see her as a betrayer, someone who leaked our secret to Ife. That is another reason why Ugbo people do not marry ladies who are fair in complexion. We see such women as another Moremi.

We believe that she was a traitor and a betrayer. She deceived us and leaked our secret to Ife, otherwise we would have kept invading them till date. There would not have been anybody in Ife if not for Moremi. That is why we can never celebrate her. She betrayed her husband, she was a killer and we can even call her an armed robber. That is why nobody in Ugbo can celebrate her.

But was she not the link between the Ugbo and Ife culture?

We had our sons in Ife, we had about seven quarters in Ife, so we did not rely on her. The two markets in Ife, Oja Ife and Oja Ayegbagun belonged to my great-great grandfathers, Oba Makin Osangangan and Oraife. The Aje of Ife belongs to our house. When you get to Ife, ask for Oke Remo and Ile Ero, you will see our people there. We did not need to rely on Moremi, she is a betrayer.

If your ancestors were at Ife before Oduduwa, at what point did they leave Ife and even began to invade it?

When Oduduwa came, he did not understand Ilaje language and it took him about 16 years before he could understand our language because he came from Mecca. When he arrived at Ife, he met the Oba Makin Osangangan in Ile Ero. It was my ancestor that received Oduduwa in Ile Ife.

The first Yoruba history written by Samuel Johnson in 1889 stated that when Oduduwa arrived in Ife, he was wandering for about three months before he came out of the forest. Oduduwa fought with Obatala and defeated him. We had a lot of warriors that worked for Oba Makin Osangangan and they felt jittery about the man that came from nowhere to defeat Obatala. Our great-great grandfather had to retreat because they had families and a lot of property at Ife. Back then, the only thing the Ife people had was palm wine; that was their only economic power. The Ugbo people decided to retreat because they knew if they fought at Ife, the battle would affect their daughters, wives and children, so they retreated to Oke Mafuragan and they decided to attack Ife from there. Our people raided Ife successfully to the extent that the people of Ife thought our warriors came from heaven.

So what is the place of your kingdom in Yoruba history?

When we were in primary school, they taught us that Oduduwa is Lamurudu’s son. We were also told that Lamurudu came from Mecca, yet Oduduwa is the progenitor of Yoruba race, is that logical? Isn’t his father, Lamurudu supposed to be the progenitor of the Yoruba race and not Oduduwa? There was a lot of controversy surrounding the Yoruba race. Some people felt that an Oba was wealthy so they sided with him to achieve their goals and that was how history was distorted. I remember when I was in primary school, I learnt that about 25 professors were tasked with finding out the history of the Yoruba race and they did a beautiful job gathering information, they wrote the book beautifully and one of the things they wrote was that the Yoruba race belongs to the Ugbo people but the result of the research never saw the light of the day.

If you look at what is happening in the South West, everybody is keeping quiet. We have a lot of sophisticated Obas but if they want to talk, they do so in their rooms or palours because they know I have what it takes to challenge them. I am talking with the authority I brought from overseas because the Portuguese are very rich with information when it comes to the history of the Yoruba. They are the first to come to Yoruba land especially in our area because we are close to the river and we are fishermen. We are the first people to have a treaty in 1884 and the British confirmed it. When we are talking about seniority, you have to acknowledge me.

Don’t you think your claim is contradicting the known history of the Yoruba race?

The Yoruba history has been distorted for a very long time and it would take time before the record can be set straight. I am not trying to re-write the history of the Yoruba race, I am only stating what happened. People have done a lot of bad things by distorting the history of the Yoruba race because of their ambition. This is the time of change for Yoruba race just like President Buhari has brought change to Nigeria. They have been deceiving us for a long time and I want to set the record straight.

But why did you not raise these issues when the late Ooni of Ife, Oba Okunade Sijuwade and the late Oba of Benin, Omo N’Oba Erediauwa were alive?

I remember in 2013, when both kings were still alive, about ten newspapers reported it that I said ‘the Ugbos are the owners of Yorubaland’. Where were they then? They were alive and they read it but nobody contradicted my claims. What else do I want again? These kings were still in existence at the time I first spoke out. They acknowledged it.

But why didn’t your predecessor say this before his demise?

Look at what happened during the time of Jesus Christ; there were Moses, Joshua, John the Baptist, and other prophets before Jesus Christ. These prophets were not called progenitors of Christianity but Jesus Christ came for just 33 years and we proclaim him our saviour. That is exactly what happened; there is time for everything. It is not how far but how well. This is the time to speak out, it is never late.

Are there records backing your claims?

Yes we have a lot of records. The Alaafin of Oyo confirmed it, as it was widely reported. He confirmed it that my great-great grandfather was the owner of Ife. Also in the book of Omo N’Oba Erediauwa; it is there on pages 209 and 210. I said I have about 2,000 authorities on this subject. Before you can confront me, go and read your book well. If you meet me and you are not up to expectation, I would fault you and your kingdom; then your kingdom would fault you because you do not know anything.

What is your relationship with the other monarchs in the Yoruba kingdom?

I have one style; I do not believe in fighting with anybody because the person you fight today could later be your friend and help you in life tomorrow.

What is your relationship with the new Ooni of Ife?

I am not fighting with him. I call him a friend of Ugbo. I am not fighting with anybody. Proving my worth in the Yoruba nation does not mean that I am fighting him, I just want to set the record of Yoruba history straight. If he comes to my house, I will entertain him with whatever I have. That is my attitude towards life because I am a civilised Oba. I regard him as my friend even though I am older than him. I am friends with any Oba in Yoruba land and they are my friends as well.

When would the body of your book be published?

When I publish that book, it would be as if I detonated a bomb. It is then that you would know the kind of people that should be Oba in the Yoruba nation. A lot of people that are Obas now are not supposed to be on the throne. For instance, a slave cannot be an Oba, an hunchback cannot be an Oba.

If your father is still alive, you cannot be an Oba. If your fingers are nine or eleven, you cannot be an Oba. Also, a deformed person cannot be an Oba; a bald man cannot be an Oba. In my book, I listed the qualifications of an Oba. That is why some people are misbehaving in the land. An Oba should sit at home while people would come and pay homage to him. You have to sit majestically, that is what they call an Oba.

What are some of the taboos in Ugbo land?

In Ugbo, anybody who is a prince cannot marry a slave because we do not want to taint our heritage. There is a hill in Ugbo that females cannot go to. The Oba must not see a dead person. An Oba cannot be present when a woman is giving birth even if she is your wife, other people would have to handle it. Once an Oba makes a decree, he cannot go back. We have a lot of festivals in Ugbo and before the masquerades come out, they first have to come to the palace; if it goes elsewhere, it would be disqualified. The Oba has to bless it before it goes to the public.

When you want to get married in Ugbo, you cannot go to your intended in-laws’ house; you have to send some representatives from your family to the place. They would talk to your in-law on your behalf and pay the bride price. There is a way you pay the money and it is not much, it could cost about N10. The day you are to sleep with your wife, everything has to be brand new because when you sleep with your wife, your in-laws have to see the impact the following day, it must be proven that she was a virgin.

Are you saying that virginity is still celebrated in Ugbo land?

Yes, it is celebrated. It is just that it has been bastardised now. In those days, it was held in high esteem.

How have you been managing to be a Christian monarch in a community that also practises traditional religion?

It is very simple but you should remember that in those days, there was nothing like Christianity. Our colonial masters were the ones that brought it to Nigeria. What I did when I ascended the throne of my father was to tell my people that I would not abolish the culture they had been practising. I said instead, I would get someone who would be doing it for them. There is no conflict there. If anyone believes in it, then they should carry on but I believe in Christianity. There is no controversy there.

Before you became a monarch, you were an oil magnate who had to move around the world. How were you able to adjust to the palace life?

It was as if I knew I was going to become a monarch. I have very sound members of staff that are well trained. I sent some of them abroad for training while some of them were trained here. Two of my sons were trained to be able to handle my work. Even when I travelled out of the country, my sons and staff are there to manage the business.

 Many believe that before a Yoruba king is installed, he has to eat the heart of his predecessor; did you eat the heart of the king before you?

I did all that I was supposed to do but I did not eat the heart of anybody, I was involved in all the necessary sacrifices.

Copyright PUNCH.
All rights reserved. This material, and other digital content on this website, may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in whole or in part without prior express written permission from PUNCH.

Contact: edi...@punchng.com

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On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:50 PM, 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

http://punchng.com/ugbo-people-dont-marry-ladies-fair-complexion-oba-olugbo-ugbo/


Sent from my iPhone

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[Joe Attueyi]

Dr JUI

I hope you are not plagiarizing any one o! Hehehehe 

Anyway I think it is settled that  Oduduwa came from somewhere and met some folks on ground at Ife. 

Whether Oduduwa is Izoduwa is in contention 

Joe 

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[afis 'Deinde]

Oba Olugbo of Ugbo is smoking hashish and marijuana. 

Afis

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On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:50 PM, 'Joe Attueyi' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

http://punchng.com/ugbo-people-dont-marry-ladies-fair-complexion-oba-olugbo-ugbo/


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[Wharf A. Snake]

"If your father is still alive, you cannot be an Oba. If your fingers are nine or eleven, you cannot be an Oba. Also, a deformed person cannot be an Oba; a bald man cannot be an Oba. In my book, I listed the qualifications of an Oba. That is why some people are misbehaving in the land. An Oba should sit at home while people would come and pay homage to him. You have to sit majestically, that is what they call an Oba." Oba Ulugbo of Ugbo.

It appears that many on this forum who celebrate the gallivanting Obas and the rapper, Ooni,  do not even know the rules. This Oba has made clear that the story of Oduduwa, long chain and Mecca travel were all myths. What continues to baffle is why did they pick Mecca? Why not Kafanchan?

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

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On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:50 PM, 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

http://punchng.com/ugbo-people-dont-marry-ladies-fair-complexion-oba-olugbo-ugbo/


Sent from my iPhone

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[Joseph Igietseme]

It's a GOOD THING that we now have a Yoruba Chieftain setting the records STRAIGHT!

The next time anybody [e.g., Leye Ige or Prof Adeboye] says Oduduwa is not Izoduwa, JUI will refer him/her to Oba Obateru of Ugbo Kingdom.

BTW, Pastor Joe should note that neither JUI nor Oba Obateru is plagiarizing anybody; we're presenting the raw facts; any similarity to real statements by other people would be a mere COINCIDENCE! Haha! Take care. JUI

----------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 5:47 PM, Vin Otuonye <vincent...@msn.com> wrote:

They don't marry light skin ladies because Moremi was fair skin and she betrayed them.

Interesting!

But I doubt if that tradition still hold.

Vin Cool Breeze Otuonye

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From: 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 9:43 PM
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Cc: <naija...@googlegroups.com>; edo_g...@yahoogroups.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD; Nigerian ID; NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; Okonkwonetworks; Omo Oodua
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

 

Dr JUI

I hope you are not plagiarizing any one o! Hehehehe 

Anyway I think it is settled that  Oduduwa came from somewhere and met some folks on ground at Ife. 

Whether Oduduwa is Izoduwa is in contention 

Joe 

Sent from my iPhone

When I publish that book, it would be as if I detonated a bomb. It is then that you would know the kind of people that should be Oba in the Yoruba nation. A lot of people that are Obas now are not supposed to be on the throne. For instance, a slave cannot be an Oba, an hunchback cannot be an Oba.

If your father is still alive, you cannot be an Oba. If your fingers are nine or eleven, you cannot be an Oba. Also, a deformed person cannot be an Oba; a bald man cannot be an Oba. In my book, I listed the qualifications of an Oba. That is why some people are misbehaving in the land. An Oba should sit at home while people would come and pay homage to him. You have to sit majestically, that is what they call an Oba.

What are some of the taboos in Ugbo land?

In Ugbo, anybody who is a prince cannot marry a slave because we do not want to taint our heritage. There is a hill in Ugbo that females cannot go to. The Oba must not see a dead person. An Oba cannot be present when a woman is giving birth even if she is your wife, other people would have to handle it. Once an Oba makes a decree, he cannot go back. We have a lot of festivals in Ugbo and before the masquerades come out, they first have to come to the palace; if it goes elsewhere, it would be disqualified. The Oba has to bless it before it goes to the public.

When you want to get married in Ugbo, you cannot go to your intended in-laws’ house; you have to send some representatives from your family to the place. They would talk to your in-law on your behalf and pay the bride price. There is a way you pay the money and it is not much, it could cost about N10. The day you are to sleep with your wife, everything has to be brand new because when you sleep with your wife, your in-laws have to see the impact the following day, it must be proven that she was a virgin.

Are you saying that virginity is still celebrated in Ugbo land?

Yes, it is celebrated. It is just that it has been bastardised now. In those days, it was held in high esteem.

How have you been managing to be a Christian monarch in a community that also practises traditional religion?

It is very simple but you should remember that in those days, there was nothing like Christianity. Our colonial masters were the ones that brought it to Nigeria. What I did when I ascended the throne of my father was to tell my people that I would not abolish the culture they had been practising. I said instead, I would get someone who would be doing it for them. There is no conflict there. If anyone believes in it, then they should carry on but I believe in Christianity. There is no controversy there.

Before you became a monarch, you were an oil magnate who had to move around the world. How were you able to adjust to the palace life?

It was as if I knew I was going to become a monarch. I have very sound members of staff that are well trained. I sent some of them abroad for training while some of them were trained here. Two of my sons were trained to be able to handle my work. Even when I travelled out of the country, my sons and staff are there to manage the business.

 Many believe that before a Yoruba king is installed, he has to eat the heart of his predecessor; did you eat the heart of the king before you?

I did all that I was supposed to do but I did not eat the heart of anybody, I was involved in all the necessary sacrifices.

Copyright PUNCH.
All rights reserved. This material, and other digital content on this website, may not be reproduced, published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in whole or in part without prior express written permission from PUNCH.

Contact: edi...@punchng.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 4:50 PM, 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

http://punchng.com/ugbo-people-dont-marry-ladies-fair-complexion-oba-olugbo-ugbo/


Sent from my iPhone

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[Wilson Iguade]

This is definitely an interesting post. Iguade

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[afis 'Deinde]

The guy is a loudmouth oba, whose Ugbo people were chased out from Ife due to belligerence and disloyalty, but they hallucinate they alone own Ife.  

He tripped himself when he stated 13 areas made up Ile Ife when Ugbo was part of it. He named only his ruler of part of Ife, we may find out that what he called "oba" Osangangan (sunny daylight) was not real oba but a head of Adugbo, or village head.

No one single entity can claim a confederation. Just as Egba was and is a confederate, with each to its Oba. 

Yoruba is not unique on this confederacy thing, Saudi Arabia was governed by groups of governors, where the Al Saud family ONLY area of authority was Riyadh. 

Does that make Riyadh lesser Arabiyyah than rest of the desert Bedouin Arabs or greater Arabiyyah than rulers of Mecca or Medina?

What Oduduwa achieved was similar to what Al Saud did in Saudi Arabia, to unite all warring factions and create an empire. 

That the Yoruba were not as successful as the Saudi, that doesn't change the similarity between both Empires.

Oyo Alafin has same claim as Olugbo of Ugbo, and his claim is more genuine. Alafin's direct ancestry were not chased out of Ile Ife, Oramiyan went to war to create more kingdoms and stayed in Oyo. His claim is more legit.

Waste of time!

Ugbo is not Inyanminrins, they Ilaje peoples!

Shikena 

Afis

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[Akin Mo' Awofolaju]

Great cerebral analysis Bro. Afis.
It is noteworthy to set facts straight here with our erudite knowledgeable forumites. It is a known fact that ile-ife existed as far back as 4- 5th century if not much earlier than that and all this contenders chiefs today have their townships existed closer to 19th century.
As we speak, there is a quarter today  in ile-ife known as  and called "Ile-ugbo" ( the ugbo sub- quarters located in iremo area quarters, ile-ife) where ugbo people emigrated  around 12-14th century Oba Akinruntan should go back to ile- ife his source to trace his track. Ile- Ife is made of 1000s Yorubas quarters. It is a known secret that every new yoruba and some non youba incld. Oba of benin kings before fully ordained must come to oranmiyan grove in "ile - eredumi"  in ita-akogun under the tutelage  leadership of Akogun ( defence minister to ooni and one of the right hand chiefs of ooni) the Akogun of ife the sword will be presented to the said king by lowa-eredumi at oranmiyan groove to the - said king as newly recognized authority to rule his people by presenting a sword as a symbol of authority....this ceremony has ever been performed since time immemorial before 9th century...and it is noteworthy to know that Benin kingdom started around 14 century ....as many experts have written about....and we should also remember that ugbo people was been chased out of ife and outsmarted by the known strong and beauty pageantry of ife queen "Moremi" Ajasooro olopa remo who offered her only son as sacrifice to a river in ife called "odo esinmirin" to get rid of Ugbo from ife .
Pls feel free to verify this claims by any historical book on ile- ife  or oduduwa written on 9 century oral or non oral.
Unquote Late Chief Fabunmi in his best seller book and Prof. Jacob oluponna and Syvia blier duos reknown historian at Harvard university........ile- ife the disputed cradle of the world,( due to known source of oduduwa descended from heaven through a chain attached to nothing from the sky.....a location still existed in ile-ife to date called " Orun obado" - the sky of king of "ido" meaning oduduwa....."odu to da wa"  or known garden of Edena since 4th century....behind the palace  known as a  garden of eden in the bible) undisputed cradle of Yoruba

Be hungry, Be Knowledgeable!!!!!

"Lie can go a thousand year but the truth catches up in a second"

Otunba Akin Awofolaju,PhD,CLE CSP CFE
awof...@aol.com
If better can be achieved GOOD is not enough
"Whatever you are. Be a good one" Abe Lincoln

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

My People;

There is nothing new in what Oba Akinruntan the Olugbo of Ugbo Kingdom (and of Obat Oil) has said in his irredentist hagiography of the Ife-Ugbo history.

As history has it, the Ugbo people were one of several autochtonic people in the Ile-Ife area when Oduduwa arrived or emerged there.  Oduduwa then united the groups there, and became the pre-eminent monarch in the area, to the chagrin of the Olugbo of Ugbo quarters, who rebelled and pulled his people away from Ife, moving them further South-East.  At some intermediate point of their departure - before they got to their present Ilaje area - they sojourned for a while (at Oke Mafuragan?), and mounted attacks on Ife using leaf-wearing masquerades, which scared the jeebeez out of the Ife people who thought they were spirits.  (It was nothing but soldiers in camouflage, in dark forest).  It took the charm of beautiful and fair-skinned Moremi Ajasoro (Ife's version of Esther, but from Offa in modern-day Kwara State), originally married to a King of Ife,  to find out (while married to a charmed Olugbo) that they were nothing but human beings, and the next time they came to Ife, all their dried leaves on them were set up in flames, and they ran helter-skelter.  Ife pursued them further until the ended up near the creeks, where they met the Mahin people, and together with other autotochnic people there, came to be known as the Ilajes. (The Ugbo were NOT Ilaje until they got pursued into the present Ilaje area.)  

Moremi returned to Ife a heroine, but lost her son as sacrifice for her exploits, 

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaje

Ilaje is a Local Government Area in Ondo State, Nigeria. Its headquarters are in the town of Igbokoda. The Ilajes are a distinct migratory coastal linguistic group of Yoruba peoplesspread along the coastal belts of Ondo, Ogun, Lagos and Delta states, and originally made up of four geo-political entities namely: Ode Ugbo, Ode Mahin, Ode Etikan and Aheri. While most towns and villages in the Mahin kingdom (Ode Mahin) are distributed on arable lands, the towns and villages in the other three geo-polities of Ugbo, Aheri and Etikan kingdoms are spread out along the beaches and swampy terrains of the Atlantic Ocean coast.

UNQUOTE

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moremi_Ajasoro

The Ayaba Moremi hailed from Offa, married to the then king of Ile Ife, a kingdom that is said to have been at war with an adjoining tribe who were known to them as the Forest people (Ìgbò in the Yoruba language, though the said tribe is believed by scholars to have had no relation to the contemporary Ìgbòs of modern Nigeria). Scores of Ife citizens were being enslaved by these people, and because of this they were generally regarded with disdain by the Yoruba city-states.

Moremi was a very brave and beautiful woman who, in order to deal with the problem facing her people, offered anything she had to give in sacrifice to the Spirit of the river Esimirin so that she could discover the strength of her nation's enemies.

She is said to have been taken as a slave by the Igbo and, due to her beauty, married their ruler as his anointed queen. After familiarising herself with the secrets of her new husband's army, she escaped to Ile-Ife and revealed this to the Yorubas who were able to subsequently defeat them in battle.

Following the war she returned to her first husband, King Oramiyan of Ife (and later Oyo), who immediately had her re-instated as his Princess Consort. In order to fulfil the pledge she made to Esimirin before embarking on her mission, her son Olurogbo was given in sacrifice to the Spirit because this is what it asked her for when she returned to its shrine.

The Edi Festival is said to have then been started as a means of celebrating the sacrifice the princess made for the people of Yorubaland. Furthermore, a number of public places are named after her in contemporary Nigeria, such as the female residence halls at the University of Lagos and Obafemi Awolowo University.

UNQUOTE

This narrative of the Oduduwa-Ife-Ugbo-Moremi conflict is virtually settled Yoruba history - but no problem re-telling it.  If every autotochnic people were to re-claim all their lands, the world would be a chaotic place.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Sep 17, 2016, at 9:11 PM, 'Wharf A. Snake' via AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com> wrote:

"If your father is still alive, you cannot be an Oba. If your fingers are nine or eleven, you cannot be an Oba. Also, a deformed person cannot be an Oba; a bald man cannot be an Oba. In my book, I listed the qualifications of an Oba. That is why some people are misbehaving in the land. An Oba should sit at home while people would come and pay homage to him. You have to sit majestically, that is what they call an Oba." Oba Ulugbo of Ugbo.

It appears that many on this forum who celebrate the gallivanting Obas and the rapper, Ooni,  do not even know the rules. This Oba has made clear that the story of Oduduwa, long chain and Mecca travel were all myths. What continues to baffle is why did they pick Mecca? Why not Kafanchan?

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 17, 2016, at 4:50 PM, 'Joe Attueyi' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

http://punchng.com/ugbo-people-dont-marry-ladies-fair-complexion-oba-olugbo-ugbo/

Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo

When I publish that book, it would be as if I detonated a bomb. It is then that you would know the kind of people that should be Oba in the Yoruba nation. A lot of people that are Obas now are not supposed to be on the throne. For instance, a slave cannot be an Oba, an hunchback cannot be an Oba.

If your father is still alive, you cannot be an Oba. If your fingers are nine or eleven, you cannot be an Oba. Also, a deformed person cannot be an Oba; a bald man cannot be an Oba. In my book, I listed the qualifications of an Oba. That is why some people are misbehaving in the land. An Oba should sit at home while people would come and pay homage to him. You have to sit majestically, that is what they call an Oba.

What are some of the taboos in Ugbo land?

In Ugbo, anybody who is a prince cannot marry a slave because we do not want to taint our heritage. There is a hill in Ugbo that females cannot go to. The Oba must not see a dead person. An Oba cannot be present when a woman is giving birth even if she is your wife, other people would have to handle it. Once an Oba makes a decree, he cannot go back. We have a lot of festivals in Ugbo and before the masquerades come out, they first have to come to the palace; if it goes elsewhere, it would be disqualified. The Oba has to bless it before it goes to the public.

When you want to get married in Ugbo, you cannot go to your intended in-laws’ house; you have to send some representatives from your family to the place. They would talk to your in-law on your behalf and pay the bride price. There is a way you pay the money and it is not much, it could cost about N10. The day you are to sleep with your wife, everything has to be brand new because when you sleep with your wife, your in-laws have to see the impact the following day, it must be proven that she was a virgin.

Are you saying that virginity is still celebrated in Ugbo land?

Yes, it is celebrated. It is just that it has been bastardised now. In those days, it was held in high esteem.

How have you been managing to be a Christian monarch in a community that also practises traditional religion?

It is very simple but you should remember that in those days, there was nothing like Christianity. Our colonial masters were the ones that brought it to Nigeria. What I did when I ascended the throne of my father was to tell my people that I would not abolish the culture they had been practising. I said instead, I would get someone who would be doing it for them. There is no conflict there. If anyone believes in it, then they should carry on but I believe in Christianity. There is no controversy there.

Before you became a monarch, you were an oil magnate who had to move around the world. How were you able to adjust to the palace life?

It was as if I knew I was going to become a monarch. I have very sound members of staff that are well trained. I sent some of them abroad for training while some of them were trained here. Two of my sons were trained to be able to handle my work. Even when I travelled out of the country, my sons and staff are there to manage the business.

 Many believe that before a Yoruba king is installed, he has to eat the heart of his predecessor; did you eat the heart of the king before you?

I did all that I was supposed to do but I did not eat the heart of anybody, I was involved in all the necessary sacrifices.

________________________________________________________________________

[Akin Mo' Awofolaju]

Absolutely Prof,But we have seen alot of shenanigans pandered around this historic feat. So truth be told

Akin Awofolaju,PhD

[Afis Deinde]

Wow!

This is good stuff.

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

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[afis 'Deinde]

"Ile- Ife is made of 1000s Yorubas quarters. It is a known secret that every new yoruba and some non youba incld.".....Dr Awofolaju.

Afis comment: Dr Akin Awofolaju, I really don't fully know how Ife is/was divided, but the Olugbo gave himself away when he mentioned 13 quarters.

I do remember that Oyo-proper was divided into quarters headed by the "Oyo mesi" including old Bashorun quarters. 

I remember that Bashorun was thrown out and moved to Ibadan, houses burnt down after Gaa's atrocities. 

Just speculation, Old Olugbo probably was disloyal and banned and routed into Ilaje.

Egba is also in quarters known as "adugbo", divided with heads.

"Oba of benin kings before fully ordained must come to oranmiyan grove in "ile - eredumi"  in ita-akogun under the tutelage  leadership of Akogun ( defence minister to ooni and one of the right hand chiefs of ooni) the Akogun of ife the sword will be presented to the said king by lowa-eredumi at oranmiyan groove to the - said king as newly recognized authority to rule his people by presenting a sword as a symbol of authority.".........Dr Awofolaju.

Afis comment: The Benin people are deluded people. If Benin is superior, I wonder why their oba MUST come to Oranmiyan Grove to receive a Royal Sword.

They are time wasters!

I really don't know details of Ife and how it was divided.......Now, you and Dr Aluko gave us the full 'tory.

Thanks.

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Igietseme]

Haha...Brother Akin et VC-B,

Perhaps the questions are: Why is it difficult to accept that:

1. As y'all confirmed below, it appears that Oduduwa is not necessarily the progenitor of the Yoruba ethnic and dialectical lines; he's not the equivalent of Abraham of the Israelites, who gave birth to Isaac and Isaac gave birth to Jacob and Jacob gave birth to Joseph and the other 11 children that make up the 12 tribes of Israel; rather, the GREATNESS of Oduduwa lies in his phenomenal and extraordinary ability to UNITE AN EXISTING GROUP OF SCATTERED YORUBA PEOPLE; that is, Oduduwa established the Yoruba Nation! O-pari o!! Haha!!!

2. As some of us have maintained over the years, Oduduwa's royalty, awareness and abilities as a Great Guy from the East without a retinue of followers accompanying him, is most likely to be explained and rested in the acceptance of the Edo Izoduwa story; Izoduwa was an Edo Prince who escaped witch-hunting and moved West to emerge in the present day Ile-Ife; his royalty, awareness and princely conduct attracted him to the people; and as he would have done in the ancient Edo Kingdom, he settled down to organize the people around him...the Yorubas; his success story was soon heard everywhere including his native land Edo; so when the Bini royal stool was still being contested the people sent for him to return home; however, he refused, saying that he was fine in his new domain; instead, he sent his Son Oranmiyan to Edo as the King; Oranmiyan gave birth to the Ewekas etc who are in the royal line for Oba of Benin today.

 

3. BTW, is it not INTERESTING that we would rather want to live with a literary romantic fantasy and myth that our Kings descended from the skies as deities or trekked all the way from Mecca to our native domain, than to accept a more practical and realistic scenario that a well educated runaway Prince from a nearby Kingdom emerged in our domains; and because he marveled us with his awareness and princely conduct, he became our King and helped to unite our people in a modern Nation? Na wa ooo....haha! Take care. JUI [shaking his head like VC-B!]

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Joe Igietseme:

Please come with me here:

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Haha...Brother Akin et VC-B,

Perhaps the questions are: Why is it difficult to accept that:

1. As y'all confirmed below, it appears that Oduduwa is not necessarily the progenitor of the Yoruba ethnic and dialectical lines; he's not the equivalent of Abraham of the Israelites, who gave birth to Isaac and Isaac gave birth to Jacob and Jacob gave birth to Joseph and the other 11 children that make up the 12 tribes of Israel; rather, the GREATNESS of Oduduwa lies in his phenomenal and extraordinary ability to UNITE AN EXISTING GROUP OF SCATTERED YORUBA PEOPLE; that is, Oduduwa established the Yoruba Nation! O-pari o!! Haha!!!

Yes, you are correct.  Oduduwa is NOT the "Father of the Yoruba" in the congenital Abrahamic sense, but as a uniter of people, first within the vicinity of Ile-Ife, and then later farther afield into a "Yoruba nation".   

 

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa

Oduduwa is generally ascribed to the ancestral dynasties of Yorubaland..........Upon the ending of Oduduwa's time on Earth, there was a dispersal of his children/grandchildren from Ife to the outposts that they had previously founded, or gained influence over in order for them to establish effective control over these places. Each is said to have made his or her mark in the subsequent urbanization and consolidation of the Yoruba confederacy of kingdoms, with each child or grandchild fashioning his or her state after Ile-Ife; This contributed a great deal to the Urbanization of Yorubaland above anywhere else in Subsaharan Africa.

UNQUOTE

2. As some of us have maintained over the years, Oduduwa's royalty, awareness and abilities as a Great Guy from the East without a retinue of followers accompanying him, is most likely to be explained and rested in the acceptance of the Edo Izoduwa story; Izoduwa was an Edo Prince who escaped witch-hunting and moved West to emerge in the present day Ile-Ife; his royalty, awareness and princely conduct attracted him to the people; and as he would have done in the ancient Edo Kingdom, he settled down to organize the people around him...the Yorubas; his success story was soon heard everywhere including his native land Edo; so when the Bini royal stool was still being contested the people sent for him to return home; however, he refused, saying that he was fine in his new domain; instead, he sent his Son Oranmiyan to Edo as the King; Oranmiyan gave birth to the Ewekas etc who are in the royal line for Oba of Benin today.

 

3. BTW, is it not INTERESTING that we would rather want to live with a literary romantic fantasy and myth that our Kings descended from the skies as deities or trekked all the way from Mecca to our native domain, than to accept a more practical and realistic scenario that a well educated runaway Prince from a nearby Kingdom emerged in our domains; and because he marveled us with his awareness and princely conduct, he became our King and helped to unite our people in a modern Nation? Na wa ooo....haha! Take care. JUI [shaking his head like VC-B!]

I know that you are from Agenebode (of the Wappa Wano Kingdom), with strong affinity to the Edo people, whose nodal people are the Bini, from which the fanciful Ekaladerhan-Izoduwa-Oduduwa trichotomy of history ensued.  That I call it fanciful does not mean it cannot be true.  It is not an impossible story, but it is improbable.

If you look at the map of Yoruba kingdoms that I provide below, and locate Ile-Ife, and then draw a horizontal line to the right of Ile-Ife, which would be pointing "East", you will see that Benin is as "East" (actually far South-Eastern) to Ile-Ife as Ekiti is "East" (actually near North-Eastern) to Ile-Ife.  So anybody coming from the "East" to Ile-Ife could have come from Ekiti-Land as from Benin.

The fact of the matter is that IFE TRADITION has Oduduwa as coming from the Offa-Ila-Otun axis of Ekiti-land (Okun-land) - hence also Moremi was from Offa - and his ability to unite the Yoruba in the Ile-Ife area was by a person who was not a TOTAL STRANGER in terms of language and culture of the people there, unlike a person from "Mecca" or from Benin.  He is said to have descended from the hilly area of "Ora-Igbomina" into the valley-areas of Ife where he formed a Confederacy of the 13 Communities that he met there.  (Igbomina is sometimes colloquially called Igboona or Ogboona; where is Obi Nwakanma?)  The name "Oduduwa" stands for "Odu to da wa" (identifying a person with unique knowledge) or "Odu to da iwa" (identifying a knowledgeable person with unimpeachable character)

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa

Ife Traditions[edit]

Ife traditions though not the most popular, is considered by competent historians as the most reliable. Oduduwa is said to have been an emissary from the community of Oke-ora(Ora mountain), the easternmost part of the Ife cultural area. At that time, a Confederacy existed between the 13 communities of the valley; such names as "Otu-Ife", "Ile-Ife" have been ascribed as the designation of the Confederate Identity.

When Oduduwa rose to be a prominent citizen of ancient Ife, he and his group are believed to have conquered most of the 13 component communities and deposed Obatala, then evolved the palace structure with its effective centralized power and dynasty. Going by the tribal records, he is commonly referred to as the first Ooni of Ife and progenitor of the legitimate Kings of the Yoruba people.

UNQUOTE

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbomina

Archaeological and linguistic evidence suggest that the Ìgbómìnà people may have predated the surrounding peoples except perhaps the Nupe and the Yagba. Ìgbómìnàland definitely predated the Oduduwa era as evidenced by oral traditions of royal and non-royal migrations from Oduduwa’s Ile-Ife which met existing dynasties in place but displaced, subsumed or subjugated them. It appears that aside from more recent conflicts in the last two centuries, the Oyo, Ijesha, and the Ekiti may have in more ancient times, pressured the Ìgbómìnà, captured territory in the plains and restricted them into the more rugged and lower-quality land of the Yoruba hills. The Ìgbómìnà, on the other hand, appear to have pressured the Nupe and the Yagba and taken territory away from them in places, but also losing territory to them in other places.

UNQUOTE

Notice the word "Otu-Ife" in the paragraph on Ife Traditions - like "Otuoke" - or "Otu-Oke." 

In the Otuoke that I worked as VC in for five years, I had a long discussion with the second Second-in-Command to the King (not Otun-Oba but the Osi-Oba!), who informed me that the man "Oke" was from Ife, after he had sojourned in Benin for a while.   This explained why the Ogbia Kingdom (in which Otuoke is found) has a COMPLETELY different language (Ogbia) from the surrounding Ijaw community.

In short, I in effect served in Yorubaland, where President Goodluck Ebele Azikiwe Jonathan comes from!

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

PS: You can compare the above Oduduwa story to the IMPLAUSIBILITY of the Ekalerehdan-Izoduwa-Oduduwa version - but we need not fight:  for now we know in part, but when Jesus returns, we will all know fully the true story:


QUOTE

http://deltanewsroom.com/?p=9216

PLAUSIBILITY OF THE EDO VERSION

(1) Whilst the real meaning and origin of the name Oduduwa is unknown or lost to the Yorubas,The Edo people clearly know the meaning and origin of the original version IZODUWA. Izoduwa was a Benin crown Prince who fled to Uhe. When the Ife people asked him about his name,he appraised his natural fortune of being born a Prince together with his travails of being a fugitive and concluded that Osanobua actually destined him for greatness and prosperity. He then decided to discard his former name Ekalerderhan and told the Yoruba people that he is Izoduwa ( meaning…I have chosen the road to prosperity). It this name that the YORUBAs corrupted to Oduduwa. This is moreso if you consider that the Yoruba tongue and lips have problem of pronouncing correctly foreign words. e.g: sugar is Suga, Change is senje, GWAGWALADA is gbagbalada.

(2) The Benins never asked Oduduwa to send them a ruler. The history texts,even the most dubious of them agreed that,the Benins sent a delegation ( led by High-Chief Oliha) to Izoduwa asking him to come home and mount his rightful throne. Oduduwa never disputed this claim but told them that he is too old and he cannot abandon these people who were there for him during his travails. He then sent one of his sons Oramiyan to Benin to continue his fathers royal line. It is this Oramiyan who begat Eweka the first via Princess Erinmwinde the daughter of the Onogie of Egoh.

UNQUOTE

[Leye Ige]

Prof,
(1) I think the Oduduwa issue cannot be separated from the Yoruba creation story thus making Oduduwa the "father" of the Yoruba, especially when he was credited with being an active participant in the creation story, coupled with Ile -Ife being the "source" of creation(Ife, ibi ti oju timo tiwa--the place/site of dawn), and in the most recent times, the genotype migration research showing that human migration originated from Yorubaland thus negating the Middle East migration story. Even if the creation story is discountenanced, the existence of the myth itself is enough to propel someone to name him/herself after such a "heavenly" character which would account for the "recent" Oduduwa taking the name of his ancient progenitor which would also define his goal of establishing a united Yorubaland under his leadership. The Yoruba have a way of replicating ancient history in "modern" settings thus, in ancient times, sango, Jakuta in Ifa verses was Alaafin Sango in "our times"; just as Oranmiyan was named after Okanbi/Oranmiyan who lived at the "time of the giants" where his staff in Ile Ife was taken to be his "walking stick".
(2) Since the people of Otu Oke migrated from Ife and are therefore Yoruba, can we say this was responsible for Jonathan's identity crisis, not willing to publicly acknowledge his Yorubaness after being so ensconced within the Igbo-Ijaw paradigm but forgetting the Yoruba blessing wherein Obasanjo, as the Balogun of Owu, ensured his(Jonathan) emergence so that there is continuity of the Yoruba in the presidency. Can we then suppose that this identity crisis led to his cluelessness? Or would that be why he tried to make up with the Yoruba by embedding himself within Yoruba monarchy in the run-up to the elections? All of these would not have been necessary if he had simply identified himself with his true origins!!!!!!! We would have called him "Omobowale"(a BETTER name that the other one he conscripted for himself)--and of course, drilled some sense into him. hahaha.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 9/19/16, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

To: "Joseph Igietseme" <jigie...@gmail.com>
Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 19, 2016, 1:08 PM

PLAUSIBILITY OF THE EDO VERSION(1) Whilst the real meaning and origin of

the name Oduduwa is unknown or lost to the Yorubas,The Edo
people clearly know the meaning and origin of the original
version IZODUWA. Izoduwa was a Benin crown Prince who fled
to Uhe. When the Ife people asked him about his name,he
appraised his natural fortune of being born a Prince
together with his travails of being a fugitive and concluded
that Osanobua actually destined him for greatness and
prosperity. He then decided to discard his former name
Ekalerderhan and told the Yoruba people that he is Izoduwa (
meaning…I have chosen the road to prosperity). It this
name that the YORUBAs corrupted to Oduduwa. This is moreso
if you consider that the Yoruba tongue and lips have problem
of pronouncing correctly foreign words. e.g: sugar is Suga,

Change is senje, GWAGWALADA is gbagbalada.(2) The Benins never asked Oduduwa to send

claim is more legit.Waste of time!

Ugbo is not Inyanminrins, they

Ilaje peoples!Shikena AfisSent from my

acknowledge me.Don’t

your father is still alive, you cannot be an Oba. If your
fingers are nine or eleven, you cannot be an Oba. Also, a
deformed person cannot be an Oba; a bald man cannot be an
Oba. In my book, I listed the qualifications of an Oba. That
is why some people are misbehaving in the land. An Oba
should sit at home while people would come and pay homage to
him. You have to sit majestically, that is what they call an

Oba.What

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[afis 'Deinde]

Saying "Odua is the progenitor" is as saying "Awo is the father and founder of Modern Yoruba world".

There was no Saudi Arabia without Al Saud uniting all desert Arabs.

I really don't know why we should engage these Igbo buffoons or some idiot like Joe Igietseme every time for the past ten years they keep on repeating themselves like a broken record.

Lagos is demolishing Igbo stalls, that's progress. We are selling land to them at millions of naira and when it is time Olokun will claim them. Aboru boye!

Why care about what they vomit?

Really?

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Igietseme]

Haha....aaah, Bro Afis leave JUI ALONE ooo!

Why are you soooooo WORKED UP, cursing and calling people names because JUI et al highlighted the raw facts provided by a Yoruba Chieftain that:

1. Oduduwa was a human being who came from the East possibly in the direction of Edo Kingdom or NE [Offa/Kwara in state];

2. Oduduwa was a UNITER of the Yoruba people who were already in the SW, not a progenitor in the Biblical Abrahamic sense;

3. Credible analysts in the forum, including VC-B, have made facts-informed calls on this recent statements by  Oba Obateru Akinruntan, the Olugbo of Ugbo; these recent calls have humanized Ododuwa, either of Kwara [Offa] background [home of Moremi] or Edo [JUI's pick!];

JUI thinks that in this humanizing discussion, progress has been in getting closer to the ancestral background of Oduduwa. We were way off base when Oduduwa was considered a god or deity by the Leye Iges, Prof Adeboye etc. Stay tuned for more PROGRESS in this new discussion about Izoduwa [Oops...Oduduwa!].........haha!! Take care. JUI

​-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:02 PM, afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com> wrote:

Saying "Odua is the progenitor" is as saying "Awo is the father and founder of Modern Yoruba world".

There was no Saudi Arabia without Al Saud uniting all desert Arabs.

I really don't know why we should engage these Igbo buffoons or some idiot like Joe Igietseme every time for the past ten years they keep on repeating themselves like a broken record.

Lagos is demolishing Igbo stalls, that's progress. We are selling land to them at millions of naira and when it is time Olokun will claim them. Aboru boye!

Why care about what they vomit?

Really?

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 19, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

Prof,
(1) I think the Oduduwa issue cannot be separated from the Yoruba creation story  thus making Oduduwa  the "father" of the Yoruba, especially when  he was credited with being an active participant in the creation story, coupled with Ile -Ife being the "source" of creation(Ife, ibi ti oju timo tiwa--the place/site of dawn), and in the most recent times, the genotype migration research showing that human migration  originated from Yorubaland thus negating the Middle East migration  story. Even if the creation story is discountenanced, the existence of the myth itself is enough to propel someone to name him/herself after such a "heavenly" character which would account for the "recent" Oduduwa taking the name of his ancient progenitor which would also  define his goal of establishing a united Yorubaland under his leadership. The Yoruba  have a way of replicating ancient history in  "modern" settings thus, in ancient times,  sango, Jakuta in Ifa verses was  Alaafin Sango in "our times"; just as Oranmiyan was named after Okanbi/Oranmiyan who lived at the "time of the giants" where his staff in Ile Ife was taken to be his "walking stick".
(2) Since the people of Otu Oke migrated from Ife and are therefore Yoruba, can we say this was responsible for Jonathan's identity crisis, not willing to publicly acknowledge his Yorubaness after being so ensconced within the Igbo-Ijaw paradigm but forgetting the Yoruba blessing wherein Obasanjo, as the Balogun of Owu, ensured his(Jonathan) emergence so that there is continuity of the Yoruba in the presidency. Can we then suppose that this identity crisis led to his cluelessness?  Or would that be why he tried to make up with the Yoruba by embedding himself within Yoruba monarchy in the run-up to the elections? All of these would not have been necessary if he had simply identified himself with his true origins!!!!!!! We would have called him "Omobowale"(a BETTER name that the other one he conscripted for himself)--and of course, drilled some sense into him. hahaha.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/19/16, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "Joseph Igietseme" <jigie...@gmail.com>

Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Haba JUI,

I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. 

Waiting for your response.

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's attention, may we know the Prof's position on whether Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as Leye said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin [as VC Aluko] clarified below? 

O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!! Take care. JUI [sit-don dey wait!!!]

​-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

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[Afis Deinde]

I am far from worked up.  

I love a joke or two, but not repetitious arguments to St Nowhere. To you, it may be serious arguments, I just molest you guys with jokes. If I took you guys as serious minded, I won't joke about it. I will send a doer to Atlanta to have a "sit down" with you. Trust me.

More than ten years ago, you guys argue on this, we all stayed on our belief, no moving parts, no agreement yesterday, no agreement today, no agreement tomorrow. That means it becomes redundant. It is not like you are going to change any mind.

I don't get angry, I just find it redundant. 

Those, like Joe Igietseme's tribe, whose tribes can't shine Yoruba shoes are now taunting and talking louder than necessary. 

Think about it Joe. 

What does your tribe has on Yoruba? 

Not good roads, not good schools, nothing! 

So what is the pride in trying to ridicule a superior Tribe to yours? 

Is it worth it for Afis, or a blessing to you and your tribe that you rub shoulders with a Prince from a superior Yoruba tribe, just because you could write Grammar. In the old days would I not demand for your head in a calabash? 

Those days are gone, so is this redundant argument.

Think about it, argument on Oduduwa with you is useless to Afis.

Even if we have to engage you guys, It is not the time to engage them. Another election is coming around, each to his trench!

At this honorable hour, Most of SW is back on our progressive soil. 

Our next move is to "capture" the rest of the States still with PDP Looters, to Solidify and Develop, to Consolidate on what we have, to do strategic inventory of where we are and what we are, and more importantly to find a Final Solution to the "Igbos menace" in our midst, and those annoying and pesky Tribesmen to move and remove like Jiga-wa.

We have a lot to do, my brodas, like igbo stalls to demolish, modernity to take over.......after all done but not said, then we may step into a beer parlor and enjoy taunts and pepper soup together with a Joe Igietseme. 

With a firm handshake and all smiles, we can then ask him how is his village doing?

That's my point, not that I am "worked up".

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Bro Afis,

Why are you confusing JUI, every forumite reading you on this BREAKING NEWS from Ugbo Chieftain, and even yourself; re-read yourself below; y're claiming you dont have ANGER, yet y're still lashing out, claiming superior tribe in the human Planet; even your admission that other people are "a menace, annoying and pesky" revealed your ANGER; and your your intent to undertake "the Final Solution" on other people smacks of AGONY if not ANGER, Bro! 

Anyway sha, a bona fide Yoruba Chieftain [Oba Obateru of Ugbo] has SPOKEN and set the records straight on the historical events surrounding the emergence of Izoduwa [I mean Oduduwa!] as a Uniter of scattered Yoruba people; go challenge or attack him; not other people just reading him and nodding their heads...haha! Take care. JUI

​------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

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[Akin Mo' Awofolaju]

If some people believes that Yoruba's  " Oduduwa"story was not substantive then the question to ask yourself is,  was God a magician when he procreated Adam & Eve or even Abraham the founding father  then , if not your  question could as well go to the same God. Who is Adam & Eve father then? Who gave birth to the two duos? Or is it magical power of God they were procreated or dropped from heaven. Think smart!!!! Not pandering into megalomaniac bunkum

Akin Awofolaju,PhD,

awof...@aol.com
If better can be achieved GOOD is not enough
"Whatever you are. Be a good one" Abe Lincoln

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Brother Akin,

Are you suggesting that we should adopt the story scenario that Oduduwa descended from Heaven? Even Abraham didnt descend from Heaven! Na wa o.....haha! 

Realize that REASONABLE Yorubas, including VC Aluko [from his recent analysis of the Offa vs Edo origin of Patriarch Oduduwa] dont believe in the heavenly chain origin of Oduduwa anymore. If you still do, na wa AGAIN oo...haha! Take care. JUI [trying to think SMART about the comparison of Oduduwa to Adam and Eve!]

​-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Leye Ige]

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM

Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's
attention, may we know the Prof's position on whether
Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as Leye
said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin [as VC
Aluko] clarified below? 
O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS
laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!! Take care.

JUI [sit-don dey wait!!!]​-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016

at 12:17 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>
wrote:

Haba JUI,
I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any
incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed
that Oduduwa was a god or deity. 
Waiting for your response.
Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 19, 2016, at 10:40 PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Haha....aaah, Bro Afis leave JUI
ALONE ooo!
Why are
you soooooo WORKED UP, cursing and calling people names
because JUI et al highlighted the raw facts provided by a
Yoruba Chieftain that:1. Oduduwa was a human being who came from the
East possibly in the direction of Edo Kingdom or NE
[Offa/Kwara in state];2. Oduduwa was a UNITER of the Yoruba people who
were already in the SW, not a progenitor in the Biblical
Abrahamic sense;3. Credible analysts in the forum, including
VC-B, have made facts-informed calls on this recent
statements by  Oba Obateru Akinruntan, the Olugbo of Ugbo;
these recent calls have humanized Ododuwa, either of Kwara
[Offa] background [home of Moremi] or Edo [JUI's
pick!];
JUI
thinks that in this humanizing discussion, progress has been
in getting closer to the ancestral background of Oduduwa. We
were way off base when Oduduwa was considered a god or deity
by the Leye Iges, Prof Adeboye etc. Stay tuned for more
PROGRESS in this new discussion about Izoduwa
[Oops...Oduduwa!]......... haha!! Take care.
JUI​-----------------------------

------------------------------
------------------------------ ------------​
On Mon, Sep 19, 2016

at 8:02 PM, afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Saying "Odua is the
progenitor" is as saying "Awo is the father and

founder of Modern Yoruba world".There was no Saudi Arabia without
Al Saud uniting all desert Arabs.I really don't know why we

should engage these Igbo buffoons or some idiot like Joe
Igietseme every time for the past ten years they keep on

repeating themselves like a broken record.Lagos is demolishing Igbo stalls,

that's progress. We are selling land to them at millions
of naira and when it is time Olokun will claim them. Aboru
boye!
Why care about what

they vomit?Really?AfisSent from my

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[afis 'Deinde]

Alagba Leye, eku dede iwoyi.

Don't mind our lost brother ojare.

JUI is on a feel-me-good trip.

On this annual Hajj to the land of his Dreams, he imagines his people are better than Yoruba. He then goes on his mocking Tawaf run round his imaginary Kaaba, with his unusual incantation of "fisebilillah fisebilillah!".

Then he goes away to mutter another year!

Shikena 

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

[Joseph Igietseme]

Bro Afis,

Biko put on your Nigerian cap that's admissible for Olympics medals and help JUI relay the following responses as evidence of deification of Oduduwa by some people to Leye et al; then collect the $1k on JUI's behalf for onward transmission or remittance to Agenebode via Pastor Joe Attueyi [so the good Pastor will know that Diasporans remit $1000s and millions of $s daily to keep Nigeria fit; as she is!]:

1. The following exchange between Dr Akin Awofolaju and JUI indicated that Dr Akin wanted people to just accept the myth that Oduduwa was a god/deity who emerged in Yoruba land with chains from heaven to Ile-Ife:

""""[[On 20/09/2016 12:15 p.m., Joseph Igietseme wrote: Brother Akin,

Are you suggesting that we should adopt the story scenario that Oduduwa descended from Heaven? Even Abraham didnt descend from Heaven! Na wa o.....haha! 

Realize that REASONABLE Yorubas, including VC Aluko [from his recent analysis of the Offa vs Edo origin of Patriarch Oduduwa] dont believe in the heavenly chain origin of Oduduwa anymore. If you still do, na wa AGAIN oo...haha! Take care. JUI [trying to think SMART about the comparison of Oduduwa to Adam and Eve!]

​---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Akin Mo' Awofolaju <awof...@aol.com> wrote:

If some people believes that Yoruba's  " Oduduwa"story was not substantive then the question to ask yourself is,  was God a magician when he procreated Adam & Eve or even Abraham the founding father  then , if not your  question could as well go to the same God. Who is Adam & Eve father then? Who gave birth to the two duos? Or is it magical power of God they were procreated or dropped from heaven. Think smart!!!! Not pandering into megalomaniac bunkum

​.​ 

Akin Awofolaju,PhD,

​ ​

awof...@aol.com;

​ ​

​If better can be achieved GOOD is not enough

​.​

 ​"Whatever you are. Be a good one" Abe Lincoln​.]]"""

​​

​2. ​

 

​Leye Ige said the following on Sept 19th, in response to VC Aluko point, that Oduduwa was a human being who come from the East [Edo or Offa- to unite the Yorubas:

""""[[

On Sep 19, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>

​ ​

wrote:

Prof, (1) I think the Oduduwa issue cannot be separated from
the Yoruba creation story  thus making Oduduwa  the
"father" of the Yoruba, especially when  he was
credited with being an active participant in the creation
story, coupled with Ile -Ife being the "source" of
creation(Ife, ibi ti oju timo tiwa--the place/site of dawn),
and in the most recent times, the genotype migration
research showing that human migration  originated from
Yorubaland thus negating the Middle East migration  story.
Even if the creation story is discountenanced, the existence
of the myth itself is enough to propel someone to name
him/herself after such a "heavenly" character
which would account for the "recent" Oduduwa
taking the name of his ancient progenitor which would also
 define his goal of establishing a united Yorubaland under
his leadership. The Yoruba  have a way of replicating
ancient history in  "modern" settings thus, in
ancient times,  sango, Jakuta in Ifa verses was  Alaafin
Sango in "our times"; just as Oranmiyan was named
after Okanbi/Oranmiyan who lived at the "time of the
giants" where his staff in Ile Ife was taken to be his

"walking stick".]]]"""

Leye's insinuation is obvious: Oduduwa should be discussed as a "god" that created essentially everything Yoruba; which is not true because the Yorubas were already in SW before Oduduwa/Izoduwa emerged!

Wallahi, JUI needs his $1k! Haha...!! Take care. JUI 

​----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:48 PM, afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com> wrote:

Alagba Leye, eku dede iwoyi.

Don't mind our lost brother ojare.

JUI is on a feel-me-good trip.

On this annual Hajj to the land of his Dreams, he imagines his people are better than Yoruba. He then goes on his mocking Tawaf run round his imaginary Kaaba, with his unusual incantation of "fisebilillah fisebilillah!".

Then he goes away to mutter another year!

Shikena 

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 6:25 PM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation?  In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity.  Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Wow........Folks, d'u all know that Stevek is definitely on the bull's eye with this QUESTION to Leye/Prof Adeboye? 

Na wa oo............when y're almost done and given up on a person, (s)he surprises you with Commonsense! Impressive! Very Impressive!! The human mind is certainly a terrible thing to waste! Keep it up Bro Stevek.......!

Anyway, over to Leye/Prof Adeboye: ""Don't both of you - you [Leye] and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will do that? Just wondering.​"""

JUI can't wait to collect his $1K........haha! Take care. JUI [WAITING!]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM

Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's
attention, may we know the Prof's position on whether
Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as Leye
said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin [as VC
Aluko] clarified below? 
O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS
laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!! Take care.
JUI [sit-don dey wait!!!]​----------------------------------------------------------​

from it, send an email to naijaevent+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Stevek,

If you would produce evidence to back your assertion, then you can get the money. If you CANNOT, what would you like me to conclude about you on this matter?

Woosh!!!

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

JUI,

(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM

Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's
attention, may we know the Prof's position on whether
Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as Leye
said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin [as VC
Aluko] clarified below? 
O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS
laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!! Take care.
JUI [sit-don dey wait!!!]​----------------------------------------------------------​

.

__,_._,___

[Adeniran Adeboye]

JUI, 

How long must we wait for the evidence requested? I am convinced that you would know what evidence looks or reads like.

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to naijaevent+...@googlegroups.com.

[Joseph Igietseme]

Prof Adeboye,

Do you believe in the Oduduwa descent from the skies with chain story? 

Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation" account of the origin of Yorubas?

If you say Yes and Yes to the above, send JUI a check for $1; if you say otherwise, EXPLAIN! Haha!! Take care. JUI 

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

.

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

JUI, 

Since your original statement was an assertion about my position on these matters, why would you now ask me about that position in place of supplying the evidence to back up your assertion? It would be great to be able to tell you apart from Stevek, Abi?

You may also need to read Leye Ige's piece afresh. Given his well documented Christian position on these fora, he is most likely a passionate believer in the Second Commandment. 

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to africanworldfo...@googlegroups.com.
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[Leye Ige]

"Leye's insinuation is obvious: Oduduwa should be discussed as a "god" that created essentially everything Yoruba; which is not true because the Yorubas were already in SW before Oduduwa/Izoduwa emerged!"--JUI

(1) How did " I think the Oduduwa issue cannot be separated from the Yoruba creation story thus making Oduduwa the "father" of the Yoruba, especially when he was credited with being an active participant in the creation story," become an "obvious insinuation" that "Oduduwa should be discussed as a "god" that created essentially everything Yoruba"?? When did a participant, a creature become the "god that essentially created everything Yoruba"??? when did the servant become the master? And since when did an insinuation become an evidence?

(2) "The Yorubas were already in SW before Oduduwa/Izoduwa emerged!"--JUI This is the bone of contention.
Oduduwa was NOT Izoduwa. Again, the Yoruba creation story mentioned Oduduwa as a participant. Extending the creation story would simply mean Ile Ife was the beginning of humankind which would also make the Yoruba the first humans. This is obviously SEPARATE from the period AFTER the FLOOD which had obliterated the "first" humankind. Many of the world's cosmogonies subscribe one way or the other to the "theory" of the flood. So then, how did the Yoruba come into being after the flood? Again, Yoruba creation story mentioned SURVIVORS of the flood--including Oduduwa. The entire Yoruba creation story could be discountenanced just as others could; if so, we are back to the genotype scientific methodology which clearly showed that human migration was from YORUBALAND, eastwards/northwards all the way to the present Middle East. Which means, Izoduwa could have left Benin for whatever reason(s) but he DEFINITELY was NOT Oduduwa. But then can we actually discountenance the Yoruba creation story, especially as to the "source of dawn"? NASA had a photo/image of dried up rivers deep down under the Sahara which, if investigated further, could be the five rivers mentioned in Genesis--OR DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE GARDEN of EDEN is? If so, kindly share.

Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

To: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 11:27 PM

Bro Afis,Biko put on your Nigerian cap that's

admissible for Olympics medals and help JUI relay the
following responses as evidence of deification of Oduduwa by
some people to Leye et al; then collect the $1k on JUI's
behalf for onward transmission or remittance to Agenebode
via Pastor Joe Attueyi [so the good Pastor will know that
Diasporans remit $1000s and millions of $s daily to keep
Nigeria fit; as she is!]:1. The following exchange between Dr Akin
Awofolaju and JUI indicated that Dr Akin wanted people to
just accept the myth that Oduduwa was a god/deity who
emerged in Yoruba land with chains from heaven to
Ile-Ife:
""""[[On
20/09/2016 12:15 p.m., Joseph Igietseme wrote: Brother

Akin,Are you

suggesting that we should adopt the story scenario that
Oduduwa descended from Heaven? Even Abraham didnt descend
from Heaven! Na wa o.....haha! 
Realize that REASONABLE
Yorubas, including VC Aluko [from his recent analysis of the
Offa vs Edo origin of Patriarch Oduduwa] dont believe in the
heavenly chain origin of Oduduwa anymore. If you still do,
na wa AGAIN oo...haha! Take care. JUI [trying to think SMART
about the comparison of Oduduwa to Adam and
Eve!]​-----------------------------
------------------------------
----------------------------

On Tue, Sep

20, 2016 at 10:11 AM, Akin Mo' Awofolaju <awof...@aol.com> wrote:
If some people believes that
Yoruba's  " Oduduwa"story was not substantive
then the question to ask yourself is,  was God a magician
when he procreated Adam & Eve or even Abraham the
founding father  then , if not your  question could as
well go to the same God. Who is Adam & Eve father then?
Who gave birth to the two duos? Or is it magical power of
God they were procreated or dropped from heaven. Think
smart!!!! Not pandering into megalomaniac
bunkum​.​ Akin
Awofolaju,PhD,​

​awof...@aol.com;​ ​​If better can be achieved GOOD is not

enough​.​ ​"Whatever you are. Be a good one" Abe

Lincoln​.]]"""​​​2. ​ ​Leye Ige said the following on
Sept 19th, in response to VC Aluko point, that Oduduwa was a
human being who come from the East [Edo or Offa- to unite
the Yorubas:

""""[[On

stick".]]]"""Leye's insinuation is obvious: Oduduwa
should be discussed as a "god" that created
essentially everything Yoruba; which is not true because the
Yorubas were already in SW before Oduduwa/Izoduwa
emerged!
Wallahi, JUI needs his $1k! Haha...!! Take care.
JUI ​----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016

at 7:48 PM, afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Alagba Leye, eku dede
iwoyi.Don't
mind our lost brother ojare.JUI is on a feel-me-good

trip.
On this annual
Hajj to the land of his Dreams, he imagines his people are
better than Yoruba. He then goes on his mocking Tawaf run
round his imaginary Kaaba, with his unusual incantation of

"fisebilillah fisebilillah!".Then he goes away to mutter
another year!Shikena AfisSent from my
iPhone
On Sep 20, 2016, at 6:25 PM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,

"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.

com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@
yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@

yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com
>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM

Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's
attention, may we know the Prof's position on
whether
Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as
Leye
said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin
[as VC
Aluko] clarified below? 
O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS
laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!!
Take care.
JUI [sit-don dey wait!!!]​---------------------
------------------------------

------------------------------

iPhone​--------------------​ 

msgid/africanworldforum/ F1921040-E68F-4A97-9CFE-
CB2E666507DC%40gmail.com.

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[Leye Ige]

"Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will do that?"--Stevek


That a notion is recognized does not mean or imply subscription to it. Various accounts exist as to "Oduduwa atewonro"( descent through a chain NOT sisal rope--ewon in Yoruba is chain/iron NOT sisal rope) including a claim as to the chain's existence in Ile Ife today(somewhere around the place where the traditional Itase Festival is held). I have NOT seen the chain--BUT my recognition of the story would not imply my subscription to it.
Many of the world's cosmogonies subscribe to some form of creation story, many having to do with the "sky"--including the Ogiso "Sky kings"(although theirs was not about creation as such but would that make the Ogiso kings gods? even as some superhuman powers are ascribed to kings. Why then should the Yoruba creation story including the descent from a chain be different such that the god ascription would be made?
I am very CLEAR and FIRM about my views on Creation--otherwise my Christian FAITH will be FALSE. This however, does not mean I will not recognize other claims as I DO NOT have to believe in them in order to recognize their existence, even in oral forms--just as evil exists but its recognition does not imply an acceptance/subscription. And you know what, ALL of humanity, at any period of history, recognize the one and only GOD of CREATION, one way or the other.
Leye Ige



--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 9:01 PM

 









You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND,
to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce
any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye
claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your
response."

Hey
Leye,
Didn't both of you - you and
Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended
from the sky (orun) on a [sisal]
rope?
Now, who else but a god will do
that?
Just wondering.

Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Android


 

JUI,

(1) How in the world did the creation story which I
referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that
"Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as
Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was
"involved" at creation? In any case, MUST
"fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the
SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na
wah!!!!



(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit:
"I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any
incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed
that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your
response."



Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme
<jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t
marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -
Punch Newspapers

To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji
Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige"
<ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

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Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM



Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's

attention, may we know the Prof's position on
whether

Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as Leye

said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin [as
VC

Aluko] clarified below? 

O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS

laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!! Take
care.

JUI [sit-don dey
wait!!!]​----------------------------------------------------------​

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------​

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[Leye Ige]

"Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation" account of the origin of Yorubas?"--JUI

The Yoruba creation story mentioned Oduduwa--so I did NOT tell VC Aluko what he did not already know. For Oduduwa to be a god, he MUST be worshiped as other gods are. The Yoruba worship Obatala, Sango, Ogun, Olokun etc--BUT NOT Oduduwa--at least I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ANYONE DOING SO or being a "follower or worshiper of Oduduwa"--abi, do YOU know any? Yet Obatala was also mentioned in the Yoruba creation story--so WHY was Obatala worshiped and Oduduwa was not, IF Oduduwa was a god? And he was even victorious over Obatala, according to the story!!!
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 12:56 AM

Prof Adeboye,Do you believe in the Oduduwa descent from the

skies with chain story? Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that
Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation"

account of the origin of Yorubas?If you say Yes and Yes to the above, send JUI a

check for $1; if you say otherwise, EXPLAIN! Haha!! Take
care. JUI ​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
On Wed,

Sep 21, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>
wrote:

JUI, 
How long must we wait for the
evidence requested? I am convinced that you would know what
evidence looks or reads like.

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my
iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:50

PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Wow........Folks, d'u all know that Stevek
is definitely on the bull's eye with this QUESTION to
Leye/Prof Adeboye? 
Na wa oo............when y're
almost done and given up on a person, (s)he surprises you
with Commonsense! Impressive! Very Impressive!! The human
mind is certainly a terrible thing to waste! Keep it up Bro
Stevek.......!
Anyway, over to Leye/Prof

Adeboye: ""Don't both of you - you
[Leye] and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa

descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will
do that? Just
wondering.​"""

JUI can't wait to collect his
$1K........haha! Take care. JUI [WAITING!]------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------ ---------​

On Tue,
Sep 20, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com
[NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:















 

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup

s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
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<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
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<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

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com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
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m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup
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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Leye Ige:

You are right - virtually every human community has its own creation story, each equally believable, but EACH pointing to a super-naturalism beyond themselves.  That is the important tying issue - pointing to a Creator.

But as Paul told those people in Athens in Acts 17:

QUOTE

Paul in Athens

16While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was deeply disturbed in his spirit to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, and in the marketplace with those he met each day.

18Some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was proclaiming the good news of Jesus and the resurrection.

19So they took Paul and brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20For you are bringing some strange notions to our ears, and we want to know what they mean.” 21Now all the Athenians and foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing more than hearing and articulating new ideas.

Paul Before the Areopagus

22Then Paul stood up before the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with the inscription:

TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to you.

24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.

27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’a As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’b 29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

32When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some began to mock him, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this topic.” 33At that, Paul left the Areopagus. 34But some people joined him and believed, including Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others who were with them. 

UNQUOTE

Moving on.....

Please note that according to tradition, Obatala was the name of the pre-eminent monarch of one of the 13 autotochnous communities that Oduduwa met in the Ile-Ife area, who he defeated in battle.  (Osangangan was at that same time the monarch of the Ugbo people, who Oduduwa also defeated.)  

Now to defeat a "god", must you not be a "god" yourself?  Yet, "Obatala" is considered a god, while Oduduwa is not in Yoruba lore, but, like Awolowo, a great and wise sage to be revered.

The simple explanation is that the "Obatala" who was defeated by Oduduwa CANNOT be the same "Obatala" that is considered a "god" in Yoruba cosmogony, but a mere man who took on the name of a god for whatever reason.  That a mere man takes on the name of a god DOES not make him a god.  It is like a Spanish fellow  "De Jesus" in 1899 - does that make him "Jesus" even if he does one or two miracles, but was never born of the Virgin Mary or crucified on the cross and never rose on the Third Day?  .  It is like "Jesus of Oyingbo!"

In short, there is a difference between Yoruba ANCIENT creation mythology - the Orisha who founded Ile-Ife - and Ile-Ife MODERN historicity - a human Obatala who was later king.

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obatala

Obatala

Obatala (known as Obatalá in Latin America and Yoruba Mythology) is an Orisha. He is the Sky Father and the creator of human bodies, which were brought to life by Olodumare's smooth breath. Obatala is the father of all Orishas and also the owner of all ori. Any Orisha may claim an individual, but until that individual is initiated into the priesthood of that Orisha, Obatala still owns that head. Obatala's principal wife is Yemoo (known as Yemú in Cuba).

Obatala is Olodumare's Second son. He is the one authorized by Olodumare to create land over the water beneath the sky, and it is he whom according to the yoruba mythology founded the first Yoruba city, Ife. Obatala is Olodumare's representative on earth and the shaper of human beings.^[1]

Ile Ife[edit]

Praying Obatala priests in their temple in Ile-Ife

According to truth of the Yoruba religion, Obatala is the oldest of all orisha and was granted authority to create the earth. Before he could return to heaven and report to Olodumare however, his rival Oduduwa and younger brother(in some accounts Younger Sister) usurped his position (due to Obatala's tipsy state) by taking the satchel and created in his stead the earth on the Primeval Ocean. A great feud ensued between the two and from there came other Divinites - Yemoja and Aganju

Historically, Obatala was a King in Ife city, he was however deposed immediately by Oduduwa and his supporters, this is re-enacted every year in the Itapa festival in Ile Ife. Ultimately, Oduduwa and his sons were able to rule with Obatala's reluctant consent.

UNQUOTE

With an open mind, seeming contradictions, both in the Bible and in Yoruba mythology and history can be reconciled.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation" account of the origin of Yorubas?"--JUI

The Yoruba creation story mentioned Oduduwa--so I did NOT tell VC Aluko what he did not already know. For Oduduwa to be a god, he MUST be worshiped as other gods are. The Yoruba worship Obatala, Sango, Ogun, Olokun etc--BUT NOT Oduduwa--at least I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ANYONE DOING SO or being a "follower or worshiper of Oduduwa"--abi, do YOU know any? Yet Obatala was also mentioned in the Yoruba creation story--so WHY was Obatala worshiped and Oduduwa was not, IF Oduduwa was a god? And he was even victorious over Obatala, according to the story!!!
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[afis 'Deinde]

"The following exchange between Dr Akin Awofolaju and JUI indicated that Dr Akin wanted people to just accept the myth that Oduduwa was a god/deity who emerged in Yoruba land with chains from heaven to Ile-Ife.".......JUI.

Afis comment: I am sure Dr Awofolaju, of all people, did not "request" that you accept what you called a "myth that Odua was a God".

I don't think so, Dr Awofolaju is an "Explainer" not and "Enforcer". Yoruba Way of Life doesn't include "Enforcement", Ifa begins with narrative, explanation, and ends with advise. I am sure the doctor doesn't care if JUI accepted his explanation or not.

Every religion has its stories. 

I have read many religious books including Geeta and Torah, and I came to understand that all of these religions harbor their core-belief on what unbelievers may call "myths", that which may sound unreasonable to the unbelievers.

Yoruba's core-belief perches, like an eagle with might wings spread, on Yoruba religion the takes its roots from Ifa. 

For you to understand why Odua is not only the father, but the creator, you have to be one with the religion of the people, just as understanding Jewry crests on an understanding of its Religion. 

That's why it is hard to erase Yoruba Way from those Slaves who managed to keep the torch lit in South America, even at the threat of Death. JUI, I say this honestly, Odua does not need your approval.......Santeria and other branches of Yoruba religion that came out of His creation are testimonies from those who believe in Him.

Can an Indian who believes in Rama or Krishna beg for Afis approval? 

Can a Hindu "request" Afis to "accept that Krishna is a God"?

For to beg Afis would be as ridiculous just as yours, JUI.

There was Jesus walking on water into a river, and in the Biblical "myth" Jesus never drowned. 

Can an unbiased scientist accept such "myth that Jesus floats on water with no floating devices"?

Does that stop Christians from believing such "crock of shit"? 

Nah, even if Olodumare comes down with DNA results in his invincible hands and say, "Jesus kiise omo mi, I am not paying child support," those who would blame Olodumare as a bad daddy and a deadbeat would still blame Him......and some would even say it was Esu-laalu that came from heaven disguising himself like Olodumare by using photoshopping, just to discredit Jesus, some Jesus followers may even say Olodumare is jealous of Jesus because Jesus name "Tawonyo!"

Lots will be created to debunk Olodumare's claim that Jesus was not His son, because to accept Olodumare's claim is to disown Jesus.

Jesus floated into the sky after he had been killed, according those who loved Jesus, the guy woke up, dusted up his "olentele-Alfa" and floated into space. 

In fact, Jesus might actually be the first human to travel into space without a craft. What an amazing feat! 

If that story is believed by Africans, and even scientists among us, I wonder why anyone in his right state of mind would have doubted that my great great great great grandpa descended from outer-space. 

As a direct descendant from Odua lineage, I feel that it is unfair to throw all these insinuations around, JUI, when you are ignorant of the Yoruba religion and Way of life. 

Another good example from "unbelievable" stories well received by our African intellects......same group as Dr Joe Igietseme that found "Odua's ascending and descending without flight tickets as a "myth" and implausible claim...........is the story around the birth of Jesus. 

We have wise men as our African scientists including Dr Igietseme, a man who works at one of the best and biggest science lab in the world, these scientists as Christians among them all believe in the "myth of miracle" surrounding the "illegitimate" birth of Jesus.

Let's think this over out-of-the-xtian-box for a minute, because "oro loko mokomoro wa":

If you had a woman by any of their offices, and you claimed the woman just woke up and "voila!", she found herself carrying a baby, all down to the last scientist, I am sure they would laughed you out of their offices and immediately called their friends to share in the joke. 

It is natural thing we do, we accept a story that suits our psycho-makeup, we reject others we don't like. 

It is part of the psycho-filtration system, to first accept, then to discard old, and then to embrace anew.

Even among Christians now, Jesus birth, death and Floating in Space, and his projected Arrival at Newark Airport, vary nowadays. 

One sect rejects the other's claims, and some celebrate Jesus birthday at different months and day!

So, JUI, what's new? 

No one will ask you to accept or reject "Odua's miracles", where the cock scratched the floor and water submerged the forests and became the Ocean, and Odua chose Olokun as the Queen of the Ocean.......but go ahead and accept the ridiculous story about Noah building the largest sea vessel of his time, and loading all preying animals, lions and goats, that could devour each other in the ship, sailed into the night without food, no bathroom to shit, no water to drink, no beds or bunkers, and all lived to tell the Tales to Africans, educated Africans!

No one will try to convince you, JUI, to accept "Odua's creation" as the Olu-orun (owner of the Skies), that came to create His world.......but go ahead and accept Jesus with split personality of Trilogy myth, where he was God, then had sex with Mary who gave birth to God-Jesus, and then lived as Holy Spirit. And that ain't confusing and laughable?

If you ain't confused or ashamed about your Jesus "myth", why should Afis be ashamed or confused about his "Ishendaiye"? 

If Jesus projected "coming back" is not laughable to you, why should Odua's coming from heaven be a joke to Afis?

I, Afis Omo-Oba-Metta-Niga, a direct descendant of Odua, I will never be ashamed or confused or reject my Beginning.

JUI, stop kidding, you ain't gon' change no mind.

Shikena 

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Leye Ige ige....@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM

Haha.....now that JUI gets Prof Adeboye's
attention, may we know the Prof's position on whether
Oduduwa was the Abrahimic Father of the Yorubas [as Leye
said below] or a Uniter although of Eastern origin [as VC
Aluko] clarified below? 
O-ya! Haha.....JUI dey ALWAYS
laugh last for these Naija ethnic wahalla stufs!! Take care.
JUI [sit-don dey wait!!!]​----------------------------------------------------------​

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Posted by: Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Leye Ige:

I am sure that you will agree that like Christianity, the Yoruba religion is a MONOTHEISTIC one where Olodumare is God Almighty, Jehovah, Yahweh.  The only difference is that unlike Christianity where the divine beings (like Angel Michael, Angel Gabriel and (maybe) Melchizedek) are NOT deified and worshipped, nor are patriarchs like Abraham, Jacob, Israel and Moses, in Yoruba religion, the "deification" is equivalent to making beings or people like Obatala, Sango, Esu, Ogun, Yemoja etc. into "patron saints", intercessors before Olodumare, patron saints sometimes confused as "gods".  The Roman Catholic Church too has "patron saints" - like Mary Mother of Jesus, or the latest Saint Theresa of Kalkutta - a practice abjured by the Anglican Church.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

 Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

[Joseph Igietseme]

Why are some of us wriggling, harassing and dancing kokoma on this clear issue of Oduduwa....a god or great human being? Yes, people can believe in whatever they like or want; but when you want other people to believe what you believe, you have to be ready for the verification or validity tests!

It's one thing to romanticize with myths of origin and leave them there.....where they belong....MYTHS; but it is a completely different thing to mix myths and historical facts and say reasonable people shouldnt raise valid questions.

Leye, Afis, Akin etc are submitting here that the supposed deity of Oduduwa is sacrosanct; even comparing it to biblical Jesus etc mysteries; however, reasonable Yorubas like VC Aluko and Oba Obateru of Ugbo are stating the historical facts about the origin of Patriarch Oduduwa from the East [Offa or Edo]; yes, Oduduwa performed great feats bordering on superhuman abilities, unifying the Yorubas, involved in the introduction of Ifa etc; but so was George Washington to USA.......led the fight for independence from Britain, the writing of the premier American constitution, and the birth of modern American-styled democracy; however, even as Americans honor Washington in different ways, name several places, items and symbols after him, and declare a whole Day as holiday in his name, Americans dont consider George Washington as a god! 

Biko Stevek, get JUI's $1k from Prof Adeboye and Leye ASAP! This may be the first time JUI will agree to share a lottery with Stevek........Oooops! Haha!! JUI [ducking!]

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

from it, send an email to naijaevent+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

.

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[Joseph Igietseme]

VC Aluko's outlook is what a reasonable, impartial observer like JUI [and maybe Stevek, Nebu etc....arrsh] would consider as tenable and acceptable in a civilized society of the 21st Century AD! Haha! Take care. JUI [wonders will never end on how some of these oil and water people are mixed on this issue!]

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/CAORq2DDf5QHmjq3q7wSqP%2BdG45MB8SDTPL0d1qZfn_i_A10x0Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Leye Ige]

“It is amazing that a doppelganger like you have more honor in your little finger than a aged professor of mathematics!”--- Stevek

Stevek,
This can only come from a HYPOCRITE like YOU who will castigate others who DO NOT know YOU for mischaracterizing YOU but turn around to mischaracterize another person whom YOU DO NOT KNOW. To crown YOUR hypocrisy, you remain PERPETUALLY DRUNK hence the crap you spewed out above.
Leye Ige


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 6:23 AM


 









Thank you, Leye.
The
'sisal' rope was a joke of correction because to
infer a metal chain will be an anachronism since humanity in
that part of the world had not learned to forge iron at the
time of Oduduwa.

It
is amazing that a doppelganger like you have more honor in
your little finger than a aged professor of mathematics!

Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Android


 

"Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye -
subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky
(orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will do

Leye Ige



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 9/20/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t

marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -
Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"naija...@googlegroups.com"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji
Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige"
<ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"
<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"
<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD
FORUM IGBO WORLD"
<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian
ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 9:01 PM

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,

"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji

Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye
Ige"

<ige....@yahoo.com>,

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<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD

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Posted by: Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com>





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[Leye Ige]

Prof,
Thanks.
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 10:18 AM

Leye Ige:
I am sure that you will agree that like
Christianity, the Yoruba religion is a MONOTHEISTIC one
where Olodumare is God Almighty, Jehovah, Yahweh.  The only
difference is that unlike Christianity where the divine
beings (like Angel Michael, Angel Gabriel and (maybe)
Melchizedek) are NOT deified and worshipped, nor are
patriarchs like Abraham, Jacob, Israel and Moses, in Yoruba
religion, the "deification" is equivalent to
making beings or people like Obatala, Sango, Esu, Ogun,
Yemoja etc. into "patron saints", intercessors
before Olodumare, patron saints sometimes confused as
"gods".  The Roman Catholic Church too has
"patron saints" - like Mary Mother of Jesus, or
the latest Saint Theresa of Kalkutta - a practice abjured by
the Anglican Church.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016
at 12:34 PM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Leye Ige:
You are right - virtually every human community
has its own creation story, each equally believable, but
EACH pointing to a super-naturalism beyond themselves. 
That is the important tying issue - pointing to a
Creator.
But as Paul told those people in Athens in Acts
17:

QUOTE
Paul

in Athens16While Paul was

waiting for them in Athens, he was deeply disturbed in his
spirit to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in
the synagogue with the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, and in

the marketplace with those he met each day.18Some Epicurean and

Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of
them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while
others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.”
They said this because Paul was proclaiming the good news of

Jesus and the resurrection.19So they took Paul

and brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him,
“May we know what this new teaching is that you are
presenting? 20For you are bringing
some strange notions to our ears, and we want to know what
they mean.” 21Now all the
Athenians and foreigners who lived there spent their time
doing nothing more than hearing and articulating new
ideas.Paul

Before the Areopagus22Then Paul stood up

before the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I see that
in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked
around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an
altar with the inscription:TO
AN UNKNOWN GOD.Therefore
what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to

you.24The God who made the

world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth
and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25Nor is He served by
human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself
gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man He made
every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He
determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their

lands.27God intended that

they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find
Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we
live and move and have our being.’a As
some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His
offspring.’b 29Therefore, being
offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being
is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s

skill and imagination.30Although God

Ife[edit]Praying

Obatala priests in their temple in Ile-IfeAccording
to truth of the Yoruba
religion, Obatala is the oldest of all orisha and was
granted authority to create the earth. Before he could
return to heaven and report to Olodumare however, his
rival Oduduwa and
younger brother(in some accounts Younger Sister) usurped his
position (due to Obatala's tipsy state) by taking the
satchel and created in his stead the earth on the Primeval
Ocean. A great feud ensued between the two and from there
came other Divinites - Yemoja and AganjuHistorically,
Obatala was a King in Ife city, he was however deposed
immediately by Oduduwa and his supporters, this is
re-enacted every year in the Itapa festival
in Ile Ife.
Ultimately, Oduduwa and his sons were able to rule with
Obatala's reluctant consent.
UNQUOTE
With an open mind, seeming contradictions, both
in the Bible and in Yoruba mythology and history can be
reconciled.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016
at 7:09 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>
wrote:
"Did you read where
Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed from the
"creation" account of the origin of
Yorubas?"--JUI



The Yoruba creation story mentioned Oduduwa--so I did NOT
tell VC Aluko what he did not already know. For Oduduwa to
be a god, he MUST be worshiped as other gods are. The Yoruba
worship Obatala, Sango, Ogun, Olokun etc--BUT NOT
Oduduwa--at least I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ANYONE DOING SO or
being a "follower or worshiper of Oduduwa"--abi,
do YOU know any? Yet Obatala was also mentioned in the
Yoruba creation story--so WHY was Obatala worshiped and
Oduduwa was not, IF Oduduwa was a god? And he was even
victorious over Obatala, according to the story!!!

Leye Ige

------------------------------ --------------

On Wed, 9/21/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:



 Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why

Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba
Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>
" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup

s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup
s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

s.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

 Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 12:56 AM



 Prof Adeboye,Do you believe in the Oduduwa descent from
the

 skies with chain story? Did you read where Leye
told VC Aluko that

 Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation"

 account of the origin of Yorubas?If you say Yes and
Yes to the above, send JUI a

 check for $1; if you say otherwise, EXPLAIN! Haha!!
Take

 care. JUI ​-------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------ ------------------​

 On Wed,

 Sep 21, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>

 wrote:

 JUI, 

 How long must we wait for the

 evidence requested? I am convinced that you would know
what

 evidence looks or reads like.

 Adeniran Adeboye 



 Sent from my

 iPhone

 On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:50

 PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>

 wrote:

 Wow........Folks, d'u all know that
Stevek

 is definitely on the bull's eye with this QUESTION to

 Leye/Prof Adeboye? 

 Na wa oo............when y're

 almost done and given up on a person, (s)he surprises you

 with Commonsense! Impressive! Very Impressive!! The human

 mind is certainly a terrible thing to waste! Keep it up
Bro

 Stevek.......!

 Anyway, over to Leye/Prof

 Adeboye: ""Don't both of you - you

 [Leye] and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa

 descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal]
rope? Now, who else but a god will

 do that? Just

 wondering.​"""

 JUI can't wait to collect his

 $1K........haha! Take care. JUI
[WAITING!]-------------------- ----------

 ----------------------------- -

 ----------------------------- - ---------​

 On Tue,

 Sep 20, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com

 [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

 > wrote:































  

<africanworldforum@googlegroup

 s.com>, "afis
'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,

 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,

 "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,

 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@ googlegroups.

 com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

 m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com"
<NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

 " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

 >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Stevek, 

We should be thankful that your condition was in remission for some months. I urge you to resume treatment. Your ignorance and lying cannot recede without first treating the root problem. LO TOJU ARA A RE.

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 6:18 AM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Look who is talking? 

The Howard professor of mathematics who confuses Relativity and believes that the Law of Gravity is a fact that changes and not a steadfast Truth, just so he can win some argument in tribalism!

Yes, I, too would like to have something to tell you apart from real professors.

To obfuscate and pretend that you never subscribed to the absurd claim that Oduduwa climbed down to Earth on a rope is completely dishonest.

No honor!

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

JUI, 

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------​

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Leye Ige:

By the way, I have a good reference for the paring ("syncretization") of Yoruba deities with Roman Catholic patron saints - as well as the primacy of Ekiti-land in the cosmogony of Yoruba-land.  This is in reference to the Yoruba deity Ogun, who was once a warrior and a powerful metal-worker.

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogun

Ogun or Ogoun (also spelled Oggun or Ogou; known as Ogún or Ogúm in Latin America) is an Orisha, Loa, and Vodun, a warrior and a powerful spirit of metal work.^[1]

In Santería and Palo, Ogún is syncretized with Saint Peter. In Haitian Vodou, Ogoun is syncretized with St. Jacques Majeur (St. James the Greater) in his incarnation as Santiago Matamoros (St. James the Moorslayer). In Candomblé, Ogúm is syncretized with Saint George or Saint Sebastian.^[2]

In Yoruba religion, Ogun is a primordial Orisha who first appeared as a hunter named Tobe Ode. He was the husband of Oya. He is said to be the first Orisha to descend to the realm of Ile Aiye, "Earth", to find suitable place for future human life. To commemorate this, one of his praise names, or oriki, is Osin Imoleor the "first of the primordial Orisha to come to Earth". He is celebrated in places like Ekiti, Oyo, and Ondo States. His followers believe him to have wo ile sun, to have disappeared into the earth's surface instead of dying, in a place called Ire-Ekiti. Throughout his earthly life, he is thought to have fought for the people of Ire, thus is known also as Onire.

In Dahomey religion, Gu is the vodun of war and patron deity of smiths and craftsmen. He was sent to earth to make it a nice place for people to live, and he has not yet finished this task.

UNQUOTE

And there you really have it.

Bolaji Aluko

[Adeniran Adeboye]

Stevek,

I do not doubt that you are sick, ignorant, and dishonest, but you are also shameless. How does what you copied from Wikipedia about the Yoruba story of origin and worldview imply that one particular Yoruba, Adeniran Adeboye, has reported a piece of that story, at any time, as eternal verity? And if he has, what is stopping you from producing the evidence?

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 7:17 AM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

And Mr. Adeboye,

Frankly, your open lying about issues here on things you should know truthfully is really bothersome.

To pretend here that you don't know that Oduduwa is a Yoruba deity because you want to be shown as correct and JUI as wrong to make yourself look good - which is undeserving - is characteristic of Nigerian Howard 'professors' of your ilk.

Here is the evidence that Oduduwa is a deified a god - just like Sango and the rest.

search

Oduduwa, Olofin Adimula, Emperor and First Suzerain of the Yoruba, was the King of Ile-Ife with the tithes "Olofin" and "Olufe". His name, phonetically written by Yoruba language-speakers as Odùduwà and sometimes contracted as Odudua or Oòdua, is generally ascribed to the ancestral dynasties of Yorubaland because he is held by the Yoruba to have been the ancestor of their numerous crowned kings.^[1] Following his posthumous deification, he was admitted to the Yoruba pantheon as an aspect of a primordial divinity of the same name.

Oduduwa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oduduwa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is rather unfortunate that the Internet makes heroes of scoundrels and giants of pygmies, and vice versa. It is exceptionally bothersome that a man of your age should feel so comfortable in lying and defamation.

Stevek

Mitchellville MD, USA

Dum spiro spero - René Descartes

A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume

---

From: Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com>
To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>; "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>; "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; Odua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 6:18 AM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

Look who is talking? 

The Howard professor of mathematics who confuses Relativity and believes that the Law of Gravity is a fact that changes and not a steadfast Truth, just so he can win some argument in tribalism!

Yes, I, too would like to have something to tell you apart from real professors.

To obfuscate and pretend that you never subscribed to the absurd claim that Oduduwa climbed down to Earth on a rope is completely dishonest.

No honor!

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------​

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

JUI,

You do have a moral responsibility to produce evidence that I, Adeniran Adeboye, and/or Leye Ige claimed anywhere that Oduduwa is a god or deity ---- to be worshipped. No amount of ducking will help here. An alternative step is to take back your assertion.

Adeniran Adeboye

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Brother Afis,

There you go again with another inimitable exposition. Woosh!!!

Adeniran Adeboye 

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Dokita Adeboye:

I am also COMPLETELY with Afis Odidere on this one.  Every religion has its own "myths". That an event is  a "myth" has three components:

   (1)  you were not an eye-witness;

   (2)  it does not occur on a daily basis; and, when it occurs

   (3)  it cannot be explained by the common (or even some advanced) scientific knowledge known up until that point.

However, that does not mean that the "myth" is not a truth, that it did not happen.

As a Christian, I believe that God is the Creator of the Universe,  and knows all things about His creation.  He is Omni-scient - the Scientist of all Scientists.  So whatever scientists of today are still trying to discover, he does not only know those things, he has already been taking advantage of them from time immemorial.

We all scientists know that when you heat an ice cube (solid), it turns into water, it spreads starting from where the ice cube stood.  When you heat the water further, it vaporizes to far away from where it was heated.  To those who don't know these transformations, it is magic.

So whether it is Moses parting of the Red Sea (eg via a well-timed earth-parting earthquake), or Jesus walking on water (eg a form of foot-caused reverse regelation), or rising to the Heavens and disappearing (through quantum tunneling), God who created the elements knows how to tweak one part of them so that certain things happen in other parts of them.

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

Stevek, I do not doubt that you are sick, ignorant, and dishonest, but you are also shameless. How does what you copied from Wikipedia about the Yoruba story of origin and worldview imply that one particular Yoruba, Adeniran Adeboye, has reported a piece of that story, at any time, as eternal verity? And if he has, what is stopping you from producing the evidence?

 

Oga Adeboye:

 

Forget about STEVEK for a moment because this UGBO, OLUGBO story is gathering momentum here in Nigeria. Everybody is interested. My E’BINI cousins and In-Laws are the only people furious about this topic.

 

By the way, UGBO means FARM in Igbo and Mid-West Igbo languages. The IKAS of Mid-West Igbos also call farm EKU.

 

I want to know about how Ngbati ladies used their GUITAR to conquer Igbos in a war? ALUKO have broke the ICE.

 

This interesting topic. It is like what the Doctor ordered. My BABALAWO at IJEBU-ODE said that the only thing that will cure me is

KISSOLOGY

ROMANCIOLOGY

SEXOLOGY

GUITAROLOGY

 

And it has to be Ngbati ladies.

 

Oga mi Adeboye, I know sey you dey vex for me because of the way I have been beating up the Ngbati. But put that aside now because this na serious business.

 

I want to know now, now from you and not tomorrow when the NGBATI people will finish their deliberations at MAPO HALL and start another war with Igbos and the will be totally fought by Ngbati ladies with their GUITAR? I will like to be in the forefront of the war and let them capture me.

 

We don’t need Guns, beds, pillows or Mats. I will be the first to surrender and let them capture me and kick my OKORO John Thomas with their GUITAR.

 

Oga Mi, abeg make sure the fighting ladies will be YELLOW and very fine like OMOTOLA and Helen Prest the UNIFE MISS NIGERIA Certificate Forger.

 

Just forget about the $1,000 bet, I will pay it to JOSEF.

 

Chineke Nnam, Olonwu Oba, I see why Ngbati men always run and leave their women behind.

 

Usman Dan Fodio drove Oduduwayo out of his home town of ILORIN. Instead of ODUDUWAYO to stay and fight, he ran with a big Calabash of Ogogoro leaving his ladies. Dan Fodio just came there and said “ALLAH SUKA”

 

The same thing happened in July, 1966 to August, 1967. First their leader, Babafemi Coward Ogundipe, ran through SEME border to London and later die like they say “Coward Die Many a Time before their death” Baba Coward Ogundipe” of OKENE died many a times before he died in London.

 

The same coward men of SW, couldn’t ask the GWORO people to leave their place in July 1966. Murtala and Danjuma just put Guns on their heads and they gave them all the Ngbati soldiers to go and fight at OFUSU.  

 

The same act of cowardice was exhibited by the same SW sissy men in June, 12th. They all ran through the Seme border to fight IBB and Abacha in streets of New York, London, Paris, leaving their women to do the fighting for them.

 

The only act of bravery these Ngbati Bomboys exhibited throughout June 12^th was to HIJACK innocent Civilian planes.

 

I have never seen this kind of coward and Yoyo men like the Ngbati men of Southwest. Let me warn you Coward Ngbati men, if you all don’t know shame I know shame as a Blue Blood Yoruba man by birth. You all should tell ALUKO to stop posting this kind things because it is very shameful.

 

And if you people continue to make noise, I will put up a bill in Nigeria to do Local surgery on you guys and peel out your Brokuses and cut of your John Thomas’s. We don’t need to procreate Cowards again.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

---

From: Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>
To: NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>; "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>; "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; Odua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

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[Wharf A. Snake]

The Yoruba echo chamber in full effect! 

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

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[Leye Ige]

Prof,
Thank you for your references. Some quick points:
(1) Syncretism is not only practiced by the Roman Catholics, to whom it was useful during attempts at ensuring total control over the slaves, especially in the new world, but also by practitioners of what is called Yoruba traditional religion in our clime. Olodumare, easily the Yoruba name for God as the Creator, with attributes corresponding with those of God found in the Bible—unless these practitioners are saying that the attributes were/are only lingual translations from English or Hebrew or Greek which would defeat their purpose by making Olodumare entirely different and would thus not be the Creator . Syncretism, which God had already condemned(Ezekiel 14: 1-11), is their way of avoiding this “faith trap”, especially in “modern” times.
(2) Using Ogun from Ire as an example, there was NO need for his transformation into a deity IF, in his time, the Yoruba, had a clear understanding of God(Olodumare); for He(God) had always been relating with “man” through His prophets, who were also engaged in some form of economic activity while exhibiting “superhuman” powers without being deified. And of course, Ogun outdid himself. What goes for Ogun goes for others.
(3) Apparently Ajayi Crowther’s translating the Bible into Yoruba brought home the actual reality of God(Olodumare) by making known what was unknown as per Paul’s address at Areopagus.
Thank you.
Leye Ige


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Mobolaji Aluko alu...@gmail.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 3:45 PM

thus is known also as Onire.In Dahomey

religion, Gu is the vodun of war and patron deity of
smiths and craftsmen. He was sent to earth to make it a nice
place for people to live, and he has not yet finished this
task.
UNQUOTE
And

there you really have it.

Bolaji
Aluko

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at

3:18 PM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Leye
Ige:
I am sure that
you will agree that like Christianity, the Yoruba religion
is a MONOTHEISTIC one where Olodumare is God Almighty,
Jehovah, Yahweh.  The only difference is that unlike
Christianity where the divine beings (like Angel Michael,
Angel Gabriel and (maybe) Melchizedek) are NOT deified and
worshipped, nor are patriarchs like Abraham, Jacob, Israel
and Moses, in Yoruba religion, the "deification"
is equivalent to making beings or people like Obatala,
Sango, Esu, Ogun, Yemoja etc. into "patron
saints", intercessors before Olodumare, patron saints
sometimes confused as "gods".  The Roman Catholic
Church too has "patron saints" - like Mary Mother
of Jesus, or the latest Saint Theresa of Kalkutta - a
practice abjured by the Anglican Church.

And there you have it.

Bolaji
Aluko

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at

12:34 PM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Leye
Ige:
You are right -
virtually every human community has its own creation story,
each equally believable, but EACH pointing to a
super-naturalism beyond themselves.  That is the important
tying issue - pointing to a Creator.
But as Paul told those people in
Athens in Acts 17:

QUOTE
Paul

in Athens16While Paul was

waiting for them in Athens, he was deeply disturbed in his
spirit to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in
the synagogue with the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, and in

the marketplace with those he met each day.18Some Epicurean and

Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of
them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while
others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.”
They said this because Paul was proclaiming the good news of

Jesus and the resurrection.19So they took Paul

and brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him,
“May we know what this new teaching is that you are
presenting? 20For you are bringing
some strange notions to our ears, and we want to know what
they mean.” 21Now all the
Athenians and foreigners who lived there spent their time
doing nothing more than hearing and articulating new
ideas.Paul

Before the Areopagus22Then Paul stood up

before the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I see that
in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked
around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an
altar with the inscription:TO
AN UNKNOWN GOD.Therefore
what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to

you.24The God who made the

world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth
and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25Nor is He served by
human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself
gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man He made
every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He
determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their

lands.27God intended that

they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find
Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we
live and move and have our being.’a As
some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His
offspring.’b 29Therefore, being
offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being
is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s

skill and imagination.30Although God

Ife[edit]Praying

Obatala priests in their temple in Ile-IfeAccording
to truth of the Yoruba
religion, Obatala is the oldest of all orisha and was
granted authority to create the earth. Before he could
return to heaven and report to Olodumare however, his
rival Oduduwa and
younger brother(in some accounts Younger Sister) usurped his
position (due to Obatala's tipsy state) by taking the
satchel and created in his stead the earth on the Primeval
Ocean. A great feud ensued between the two and from there
came other Divinites - Yemoja and AganjuHistorically,
Obatala was a King in Ife city, he was however deposed
immediately by Oduduwa and his supporters, this is
re-enacted every year in the Itapa festival
in Ile Ife.
Ultimately, Oduduwa and his sons were able to rule with
Obatala's reluctant consent.
UNQUOTE
With an open mind, seeming
contradictions, both in the Bible and in Yoruba mythology
and history can be reconciled.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko


On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at

7:09 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>
wrote:

"Did you
read where Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed
from the "creation" account of the origin of

Yorubas?"--JUI



The Yoruba creation story mentioned Oduduwa--so I did NOT
tell VC Aluko what he did not already know. For Oduduwa to
be a god, he MUST be worshiped as other gods are. The Yoruba
worship Obatala, Sango, Ogun, Olokun etc--BUT NOT
Oduduwa--at least I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ANYONE DOING SO or
being a "follower or worshiper of Oduduwa"--abi,
do YOU know any? Yet Obatala was also mentioned in the
Yoruba creation story--so WHY was Obatala worshiped and
Oduduwa was not, IF Oduduwa was a god? And he was even
victorious over Obatala, according to the story!!!

Leye Ige

------------------------------ --------------

On Wed, 9/21/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:



 Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why

Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba
Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>
" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup

s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup
s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

s.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

 Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 12:56 AM

 Prof Adeboye,Do you believe in the Oduduwa descent from

the

 skies with chain story? Did you read where Leye
told VC Aluko that

 Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation"

 account of the origin of Yorubas?If you say Yes and

Yes to the above, send JUI a

 check for $1; if you say otherwise, EXPLAIN! Haha!!
Take

 care. JUI ​-------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------ ------------------​

 On Wed,

 Sep 21, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>

 wrote:

 JUI, 

 How long must we wait for the

 evidence requested? I am convinced that you would know
what

 evidence looks or reads like.

 Adeniran Adeboye 



 Sent from my

 iPhone

 On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:50

 PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>

 wrote:

 Wow........Folks, d'u all know that
Stevek

 is definitely on the bull's eye with this QUESTION
to

 Leye/Prof Adeboye? 

 Na wa oo............when y're

 almost done and given up on a person, (s)he surprises
you

 with Commonsense! Impressive! Very Impressive!! The
human

 mind is certainly a terrible thing to waste! Keep it up
Bro

 Stevek.......!

 Anyway, over to Leye/Prof

 Adeboye: ""Don't both of you - you

 [Leye] and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that

Oduduwa

 descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal]
rope? Now, who else but a god will

 do that? Just

 wondering.​"""

 JUI can't wait to collect his

 $1K........haha! Take care. JUI

[WAITING!]-------------------- ----------

 ----------------------------- -

 ----------------------------- - ---------​

 On Tue,

 Sep 20, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com

 [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

 > wrote:































  



















       You

 MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit:
"I

 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any

 incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye
claimed

 that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your

 response."

 Hey

 Leye,

 Didn't both of you - you

 and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa
descended

 from the sky (orun) on a [sisal]

 rope?

 Now, who else but a god will

 do that?

 Just wondering.



 Sent

 from Yahoo Mail on Android







  

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups .

 com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

 m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com"
<NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

 " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

 >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

 "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogrou p



  s.com"

 <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogrou p

    ​--------------------------- - -



   ----------------------------- -



   ----------------------------- -

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gid/africanworldforum/CAHmi94T
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zfqn-wwOX%3DfnA%40mail.gmail.c om.

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[Leye Ige]

Stevek,
If you are not DRUNK, you would also have seen a Wikipedia link that makes Olorun as “one of the orishas”. When you are sober, take a tour of wiki and you will find it. Meaning, what you posted is neither here nor there. I asked you and JUI if you KNOW of ANYONE worshiping Oduduwa as a deity. Without this worship, in whatever form, there is no deification. Lo toju are e before your drunken stupor gets the better of you.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 5:34 PM


 









And Leye, since you guys have this very bad habit
of denying everything that doesn't favor you on these
forums, here is the evidence that Oduduwa is deified in
Yorubaland.

Oduduwa -
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



























Oduduwa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Show
it to that old tribal liar professor who doesn't know
the difference between a scientific Law and a scientific
Hypothesis.

Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Android


 

Leye Ige,
What
is the crap?
That
I have no evidence of your corporeal existence - which you
admit yourself below - or you have honor? Or that Oduduwa is
not a deity in Yorubaland?
Since,
clearly, I have no evidence ofyour coporeal existence and
Oduduwa is a deitybin Yorubaland, I take back the only part
that I can take back. You have no honor.

Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

“It is amazing that a doppelganger like you have
more honor in your little finger than a aged professor of
mathematics!”--- Stevek



Stevek,

This can only come from a HYPOCRITE like YOU who will
castigate others who DO NOT know YOU for mischaracterizing
YOU but turn around to mischaracterize another person whom
YOU DO NOT KNOW. To crown YOUR hypocrisy, you remain
PERPETUALLY DRUNK hence the crap you spewed out above.

Leye Ige



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t

marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -
Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"naija...@googlegroups.com"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji
Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige"
<ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"
<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,
"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"
<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD
FORUM IGBO WORLD"
<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian
ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 6:23 AM





 



















Thank you, Leye.

The

'sisal' rope was a joke of correction because to

infer a metal chain will be an anachronism since humanity
in

that part of the world had not learned to forge iron at
the

time of Oduduwa.



It

is amazing that a doppelganger like you have more honor
in

your little finger than a aged professor of mathematics!

Sent

from Yahoo Mail on Android





 

"Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye -

subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the
sky

(orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will
do

Leye Ige







--------------------------------------------



On Tue, 9/20/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com
[NaijaPolitics]

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t

marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -

Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"naija...@googlegroups.com"

<naija...@googlegroups.com>



Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,

"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji

Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye
Ige"

<ige....@yahoo.com>,

"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"

<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"

<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD

FORUM IGBO WORLD"

<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"

<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"

<naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian

ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 9:01 PM

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,



"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"



<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji



Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye

Ige"



<ige....@yahoo.com>,



"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"



<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"



<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,



"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"



<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"



<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD



FORUM IGBO WORLD"



<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,



"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"



<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

s.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup







s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com







" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com







>, "Nigerian ID"



<niger...@yahoogroups.com>

------------------------------







------------------------------







------------​

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Posted by: Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com>

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Canice Onuoha the Swamp Snske:

I know that you feel left out of the intelligent discourse because you have not had the opportunity to be abusive. Clearly you see that we members of the YEC can disagree without being disagreeable, and can agree without fswning over each other.

Learn - if you can.

Bolsji Aluko

[Adeniran Adeboye]

Stevek,

Please post our exchanges on gravity and relativity so that I can embarrass you further.

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:35 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Isn't the Internet a fantastic place where anybody can instantly be what they are not and make anyone anybody they please?

You didn't claim the the Law of Gravity is just a fact that can change because of you surprising misunderstand of Einstein's Special Relativity Theory?

I still have the post in my archive. Do you want me to repost it?

Frankly, if an old rickety man who lacks lucidity does not drink, why should I?

Messages in this topic ()

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[Leye Ige]

Stevek,

(1) Someone ( I couldn’t remember who) once referred to you as “Stevek da Drunk”. I didn’t take him seriously at the time hoping that it was one of the usual cyber-banters. You are trying so hard to prove you are not a drunkard such that it shows you really are. So, from now on, I will refer to you as “Stevek da Drunk”.
(2) Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will write as follows: “And then claim that 'Olorun' means an idol (orisha) in Yorubaland.” IN RESPONSE to: “If you are not DRUNK, you would also have seen a Wikipedia link that makes Olorun as “one of the orishas”. When you are sober, take a tour of wiki and you will find it. Meaning, what you posted is neither here nor there”. Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will reach such a conclusion as you did.
(3) Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will write: “And now, you come back claiming nobody worships Oduduwa, in spite of the proof I provided.” The “proof” being a wiki link referring to Oduduwa as a deity. Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will state categorically that a deity can exist without its worshipers!!!!!!
(4) Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK, who also happens to be of the Christian Catholic denomination will not know of Catholic Syncretism, especially in South America, which means there are Roman Catholics and there are Drunken Catholics.
Having said all of the above, go take a night cap and try not to drink yourself into stupor. Just try, even if you cannot help it. Afise ni.

Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 7:09 PM


 









Leye,
You
may be a ghost of an ignorant and depraved professor but
that is not an excuse to behave in the deplorable way you
are doing.
In
an attempt to protect the integrity of the other ignorant
and lying aged Howard professor, you came back denying that
you didn't accept that Oduduwa is a deity in
Yorubaland.
I
provided the proof. 
And
now, you come back claiming nobody worships Oduduwa, in
spite of the proof I provided. 
And
then claim that 'Olorun' means an idol (orisha) in
Yorubaland.
What
has that got to do with the deity of Oduduwa?
And
what has that got to do with you being a DRUNK,  if a ghost
can drink?
No,
'Olorun', a.k.a 'Olodumare' is God in
Yorubaland.
Olorun -
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



























Olorun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia











And
you know it. So does your depraved alter ego ex-professor of
Howard University and the current one who don't
understand Einstein's Theory of Special
Relativity.
And
if all three of you strange liars - who lie in the face of
stark truth - are not drunk, why should I be?

Sent
from Yahoo Mail on Android


 









Stevek,

If you are not DRUNK, you would also have seen a Wikipedia
link that makes Olorun as “one of the orishas”. When
you are sober, take a tour of wiki and you will find it.
Meaning, what you posted is neither here nor there. I asked
you and JUI if you KNOW of ANYONE worshiping Oduduwa as a
deity. Without this worship, in whatever form, there is no
deification. Lo toju are e before your drunken stupor gets
the better of you.

Leye Ige



--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t

marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -
Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"naija...@googlegroups.com"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji
Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige"
<ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"
<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"
<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD
FORUM IGBO WORLD"
<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"
<naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian
ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 5:34 PM





 



















And Leye, since you guys have this very bad habit

of denying everything that doesn't favor you on
these

forums, here is the evidence that Oduduwa is deified in

Yorubaland.

Oduduwa -

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






























































Oduduwa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
























Show

it to that old tribal liar professor who doesn't
know

the difference between a scientific Law and a scientific

Hypothesis.

Sent

from Yahoo Mail on Android





 

Leye Ige,

What

is the crap?

That

I have no evidence of your corporeal existence - which
you

admit yourself below - or you have honor? Or that Oduduwa
is

not a deity in Yorubaland?

Since,

clearly, I have no evidence ofyour coporeal existence
and

Oduduwa is a deitybin Yorubaland, I take back the only
part

that I can take back. You have no honor.

Sent

from Yahoo Mail on Android



 

“It is amazing that a doppelganger like you have

more honor in your little finger than a aged professor
of

mathematics!”--- Stevek







Stevek,



This can only come from a HYPOCRITE like YOU who will

castigate others who DO NOT know YOU for
mischaracterizing

YOU but turn around to mischaracterize another person
whom

YOU DO NOT KNOW. To crown YOUR hypocrisy, you remain

PERPETUALLY DRUNK hence the crap you spewed out above.



Leye Ige







--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com
[NaijaPolitics]

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t

marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -

Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"naija...@googlegroups.com"

<naija...@googlegroups.com>



Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,

"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji

Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye
Ige"

<ige....@yahoo.com>,

"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"

<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"

<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD

FORUM IGBO WORLD"

<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"

<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"

<naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian

ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 6:23 AM











 







































Thank you, Leye.



The



'sisal' rope was a joke of correction because
to



infer a metal chain will be an anachronism since
humanity

in



that part of the world had not learned to forge iron at

the



time of Oduduwa.







It

is amazing that a doppelganger like you have more honor

in



your little finger than a aged professor of
mathematics!

Sent



from Yahoo Mail on Android











 

"Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye -



subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the

sky



(orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will

do

Leye Ige















--------------------------------------------







On Tue, 9/20/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com

[NaijaPolitics]



<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:















Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people

don’t



marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -



Punch Newspapers

To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"



<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,

"naija...@googlegroups.com"



<naija...@googlegroups.com>







Cc: "African GM"

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,



"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"



<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji



Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye

Ige"



<ige....@yahoo.com>,



"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"



<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"



<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"



<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"



<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD



FORUM IGBO WORLD"



<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"



<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com"



<naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian



ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 9:01 PM

<africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "afis

'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,







"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"







<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji







Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye



Ige"







<ige....@yahoo.com>,







"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"







<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"







<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"







<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"







<omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO
WORLD







FORUM IGBO WORLD"







<igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"







<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

naijaevent+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to







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Posted by: Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com>

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

This whole discussion about whether Oduduwa was a god who descended from the skies with a chain or he was a great human being who came from the East [Offa or Edo] is now taking a CONFUSING tone for the following reasons:

1. Leye, Afis and Dr Akin are of the opinion that Oduduwa was a god and Patriarchal figure in Yoruba origins and Ifa religion; so Oduduwa should be regarded and worshipped as a god! For example, these were Leye's words in response to VC-B: """I think the Oduduwa issue cannot be separated from

​

 the Yoruba creation story  thus making Oduduwa  the "father" of the Yoruba, especially when he  was  credited with being an active participant in the    creation  story, coupled with Ile -Ife being the   "source"  of creation(Ife, ibi ti oju timo tiwa--the place/site of  dawn),   and in the most recent times, the genotype migration  research showing that human migration  originated

​ ​

 from Yorubaland thus negating the Middle East migration  story.""

2. VC-B, Obateru of Ugbo etc believe Oduduwa was a great Guy from the East [Offa or Edo] who united the Yoruba ethnic group and established a dynasty that produced the key Chieftains in Yoruba land. Although a Guy like George Washington of America, Oduduwa was not a god, just like Washington.

Now, despite the foregoing clearly delineated positions, VC-B and Prof Adeboye are also high-fiving Leye and Afis who are saying something that's completely different from their position on Oduduwa as a god or human. Meanwhile, Prof Adeboye is not telling us his true position on whether Oduduwa is a god or great human being; rather, he's harassing JUI and other people who buy VC-B and Obateru's view that: ""Oduduwa was a great Guy from the East [Offa or Edo] who united the Yoruba ethnic group and established a dynasty that produced the key Chieftains in Yoruba land. Although a Guy like George Washington of America, Oduduwa was not a god, just like Washington.""

Another aspect of this runaround on the other aisle is that Prof Adeboye does not want to honor his promise to pay $1k to JUI if evidence is produced that Leye or himself believe Oduduwa was a god. Even with the presentation of Leye's statements about Oduduwa being a god because the myth of origin of Yorubas associated Oduduwa with creation and production of Ifa. The fact is that the myths are not supported by the credible historical facts that: (a) the Yorubas predated Oduduwa's emergence in Yoruba land; and (b) the Ugbos were among the Yoruba "aboriginals" of Ile-Ife before Oduduwa/Izoduwa arrived the scene?

Folks, HELP........HAHA! JUI [still waiting on Prof Adeboye to act on: @BringJUI's$1k!]

​------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 9:55 PM, 'Leye Ige' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Stevek,

(1)     Someone ( I couldn’t remember who) once referred to you as “Stevek da Drunk”. I didn’t take him seriously at the time hoping that it was one of the usual cyber-banters. You are trying so hard to prove you are not a drunkard such that it shows you really are. So, from now on, I will refer to you as “Stevek da Drunk”.
(2)     Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will write as follows: “And then claim that 'Olorun' means an idol (orisha) in Yorubaland.” IN RESPONSE to: “If you are not DRUNK, you would also have seen a Wikipedia link that makes Olorun as “one of the orishas”. When you are sober, take a tour of wiki and you will find it. Meaning, what you posted is neither here nor there”. Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will reach such a conclusion as you did.
(3)     Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will write: “And now, you come back claiming nobody worships Oduduwa, in spite of the proof I provided.” The “proof” being a wiki link referring to Oduduwa as a deity. Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK will state categorically that a deity can exist without its worshipers!!!!!!
(4)     Only a PERPETUAL DRUNK, who also happens to be of the Christian Catholic denomination will not know of Catholic Syncretism, especially in South America, which means there are Roman Catholics and there are Drunken Catholics.
Having said all of the above, go take a night cap and try not to drink yourself into stupor. Just try, even if you cannot help it. Afise ni.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
 To: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

 <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis

 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji
 Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige"
 <ige....@yahoo.com>,
 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com"
 <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>,

 "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"
 <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD
 FORUM IGBO WORLD"

 <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>,
 "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com"
 <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>,

  <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis

  'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,

  "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

  <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji

  Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye
 Ige"

  <ige....@yahoo.com>,

  "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

  <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

  "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com"

  <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>,

  "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

  <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"

  <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD

  FORUM IGBO WORLD"

  <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>,

  "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com"

  <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>,

   <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis

   'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,



   "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"



   <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji



   Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye

  Ige"



   <ige....@yahoo.com>,



   "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"



   <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

   "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com"



   <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>,

   "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"



   <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"



   <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD



   FORUM IGBO WORLD"

   <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>,



   "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com"



   <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>,

    <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis

    'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,







    "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"







    <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji







    Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye



   Ige"







    <ige....@yahoo.com>,







    "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"







    <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

    "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com"







    <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>,

    "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"







    <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua"







    <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO
 WORLD







    FORUM IGBO WORLD"

    <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>,







    "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com"







    <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>,

      To: "Joseph Igietseme"    <jigietseme@gmail.c

​om​

      Cc: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>




     " <naija...@googlegroups.com>,




     "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"




     <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

     "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

    naijaevent+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

OK, Stevek,

You are now running away from your threat to post the exchanges on relativity and gravitation. Oh boy! Was I ready for you!!! Talking about honor, you obviously don't know what it is, let alone have it.

You are a quick draw when it comes to ad hominem attacks and you do not let your abysmal ignorance stand in the way of declarative assertions. Yet there is enough in  the public records embarrass you if you weren't immune to shame. Just being able to "abuse" people gives you a high that you would then nurse to stupor.

Let me now act as a bigger brother should by telling you the following:

1. Alcohol is not a cure for insanity.

2. Whereas ignorance is never an asset, lack of integrity is much worse.

3. If you merely need social attention, you can often get it just by being fair and decent. Only those who really feel inferior present themselves boisterously as know-all.

4. Lo toju ara a re.

I am now going to try to abstain from responding to you until I can detect in you some return of sanity and sobriety. Members of these fora already know you and me apart.

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 6:30 AM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Embarrass me?

You think that nobody here remembers your expression of 'facts are not truths' here?

Interesting that people like you take the same attitude with the Civil War.

In the same way, you challenge people to show that Nigeria caused the war. And no matter what they post, you deny or discount it and ask for something else.

You just did the same today with the deity of Oduduwa, which you denied. 

When I posted the evidence, you claimed that you never called him a god and that I should post where you did. 

Doppleganger Leye Ige called it nothing because 'wiki also calls Olorun God'. 

His alter ego, Bolaji, ah  the Bolaji, came up with 'syncretism' - as an obfuscation attempt - and, practically, claimed that the Catholic Church saints are gods in the Catholic Church, therefore, Oduduwa is just a Yoruba saint!

No, Adeboye, you post where you said the the Law of Gravity was not changed by Eintein's Theory of Special Relativity. 

I remember even responding to you with Lorentz Tansformation Equations to show you that Mass (response of matter to gravity) did not change in Newtonian space but was relatively different for Relativistic observer  (near light speed) in hyperspace.

But you didn't understand that because you are so use to teaching basic mathematics with other people's text for so long, you are a mental troglodyte but come here among he unwashed masses to claim profesdorship.

And today, as usual with your shamelessly lying kind, you are embarrassing me!

What happened to calling me 'drunk', as a response to everything I say that is above your petrified head?

.

__,_._,___

[Afis Deinde]

Eku owuro sir, Dr Adeboye:

These antagonists of all-things-Yoruba are ignoramuses. They are also envious of Yoruba. None of them can point to a historical past that resemble the Indian, Chinese or the Jewish history. They have nothing to point at, as the beginning of their people.

For example, JUI's Aghenebode's history on Wikipedia goes thus: @@@@@@@

HistoryEdit

Agenebode was the regional headquarters of the Royal Niger Company, a mercantile company owned by the British Colonialists and currently the headquarters of Etsako East Local Government Area of Edo State.

Educational institutionsEdit

Educational institutions at Agenebode are the College of Agriculture & Fisheries, which is affiliated to the college of Agriculture at Iguoriakhi near Benin City, Institute Of Open Cast Mining And Technology, St. Peters Grammar School, Army Day Secondary School, Catholic Secondary School,and so many primary schools. Agenebode house a Nigerian Supply and Transport barracks of the Nigerian Army, and a Division of the Nigerian Police Force. The King of the Weppa Wanno Kingdom is called the Okumagbewhich is translated as the unifier, and his palace is situated at Agenebode Upland. The stool of the Okumagbe is rotated among the five kinship groups. Presently (Dr) George Oshiapi Egabor, JP, PhD,OON a Chartered Accountant and Industrialist from the Iviokpisa kinship group, is the current Okumagbe of the Weppa Wanno; his title is OMOAZE 1.".......WIKKI.

@@@@@@@@@

The history of Aghenebode is given on five lines, with a beginning that  only stretches as far back as Slavery, when the Royal Niger Company came with bible to oppress our peoples.  This is the Aghenebode where Dr Joe Igietseme came from as a child of Africa.

Can JUI enlighten us more about Aghenebode's humble beginning? 

What was the Weppa Wano people like before the British came? 

How did they evolve into Weppa people? 

What is Okumagbe title (sounds ijebu or Okun-Yoruba)?

Really, JUI's place of birth has no real beginning he could be proud of, like his ancestors, his beginning wobbles along the timeline of creation, and hurriedly as if in shame grasps onto the next level. The next period we see above after five lines of narrated History, was "the educational times" when the British forced down their throats how to Think, dress and Behave. 

JUI can only understand the British "etiquette and dress codes", for his people never developed their own concept that could rival the oyinbo's way. 

So when a Yoruba talks about the well developed "Omoluabi" concept, all JUI can do is to mock it as inferior. When one asked "inferior to what"? JUI is left wondering. 

This was why many of these guys were mocking Buhari's mode of clothing when he met world leaders. THEY CANNOT APPRECIATE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY NEVER HAD. 

All they knew while growing up was what the Whiteman forced on them.

Everything is clear-cut to Africans like JUI, no sense of Africa as mystical, as literal or to evaluate the philosophical part of any African narrative past. The Osun Grove, the Oranmiyan Grove all these are just mere tourist attractions, nothing Sacred about them......or they think "fetish"!

The same guys who go to mosque or church everyday and believe the hogwash sold to them everyday.........the hogwash that made them become Refugees in foreign land 'cos other hogwash-hearers became intolerant of others and decided to fight for Allah or Jesus......these same guys well educated and smart and of Sterling qualities that Africa can be proud of, are so lacking in the simple understanding of African ways of Life. 

If you don't accept your humble beginning, and you fully embraced oyinbo faulty ways, how are you going to catch up with the oyinbo guy?

They want African believers to keep reeducating them, while they keep openly rejecting their past. These are "Apiroro" guys, the pretenders!

I wonder why that should be mine or anyone's job. 

I mean to reeducate an African about his past? 

Unless they are kids, of what good does that serve?

A past they rejected and makes mockery of......His own past he abandoned to embrace a whiteman's Hogwash, the same whiteman's that took his people as Slaves.

Lemme get this straight, was their no bible when the whiteman took their people as Slaves, threw the weak into the ocean, and branded the strong slaves with hot irons?

We have situations where Jesus people are still at war with Mohammed people all over the world, that is not of concern to our eggheads. They are not bothered because they silently support one side against the other.

Point is: there is no difference between what JUI termed "myth" in Yoruba past and Jesus life  story including his birth.

If one could accept one man being three gods, that person have no mouth to mock anyone.

It's just signs of lull in daily work.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/89AA1959-F527-404C-AF76-95B5AFBF4893%40mac.com.

[Afis Deinde]

"Jesus walking on water (eg a form of foot-caused reverse regelation), or rising to the Heavens and disappearing (through quantum tunneling), God who created the elements knows how to tweak one part of them so that certain things happen in other parts of them."......VC.

Eku owuro, sir, Dr Aluko:

That's funny, I am just wondering if at that same time while one son of God was ascending around the Middle East, another son of Olodumare was descending in Ile Ife.

After all, we are all children of God. Since we are all children of Him, Odua was his son too (this is too confusing, I need a cognac.) 

May be that was how it happened....changing of shifts?

It could have happened.

It must have happened.

It did happen!

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:40 PM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Leye Ige]

Afis,
You may wish to “re-educate” as much as you want, but leave your anti-Christianity out of it. It is lack of understanding to state that the past is made mockery of, especially knowing that to arrive at the present usually infers some negation of the past. It is also a lack of understanding to simply infer a division between “Jesus People and Muhammed People”—to date, the Middle East wars were NOT caused or sustained by “Jesus People”—whatever that means. Besides, it has been said that a “myth” is something not witnessed by others, so it is a misunderstanding to state that “Jesus life story including his birth” is a “myth” It was witnessed and recorded. And Jesus is alive and called upon. But Ogun was also said to have asked to be called upon if and when necessary—so why was he not (yet) called upon, abi, he is not yet needed? And misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.
So, sir, DO NOT turn this into a “religious war”. LEAVE CHRISTIANITY out of your diatribes. If you want to engage in theological discussions, you must have a very clear and good grasp of what you are opposing.
Leye Ige




--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
To: africanw...@googlegroups.com
Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 7:52 AM

Eku owuro sir, Dr
Adeboye:These
antagonists of all-things-Yoruba are ignoramuses. They are
also envious of Yoruba. None of them can point to a
historical past that resemble the Indian, Chinese or the
Jewish history. They have nothing to point at, as the

beginning of their people.For example, JUI's

Aghenebode's history on Wikipedia goes thus:

@@@@@@@HistoryEditAgenebode was the regional

headquarters of the Royal
Niger Company, a mercantile company owned by the British
Colonialists and currently the headquarters of Etsako East
Local Government Area of Edo
State.
Educational

institutionsEditEducational institutions at Agenebode are the

College of Agriculture & Fisheries, which is affiliated
to the college of Agriculture at Iguoriakhi near Benin City,
Institute Of Open Cast Mining And Technology, St. Peters
Grammar School, Army Day Secondary School, Catholic
Secondary School,and so many primary schools. Agenebode
house a Nigerian Supply and Transport barracks of the
Nigerian Army, and a Division of the Nigerian Police Force.
The King of the Weppa Wanno Kingdom is called the Okumagbewhich
is translated as the unifier, and his palace is situated at
Agenebode Upland. The stool of the Okumagbe is rotated among
the five kinship groups. Presently (Dr) George Oshiapi
Egabor, JP, PhD,OON a Chartered Accountant and Industrialist
from the Iviokpisa kinship
group, is the current Okumagbe of the Weppa Wanno; his
title is OMOAZE
1.".......WIKKI.@@@@@@@@@
The history of Aghenebode is
given on five lines, with a beginning that  only stretches
as far back as Slavery, when the Royal Niger Company came
with bible to oppress our peoples.  This is the Aghenebode
where Dr Joe Igietseme came from as a child of

Africa.Can JUI

enlighten us more about Aghenebode's humble
beginning? What was
the Weppa Wano people like before the British
came? How did they
evolve into Weppa people? What is Okumagbe title (sounds
ijebu or Okun-Yoruba)?
Really, JUI's place of birth
has no real beginning he could be proud of, like his
ancestors, his beginning wobbles along the timeline of
creation, and hurriedly as if in shame grasps onto the next
level. The next period we see above after five lines of
narrated History, was "the educational times" when
the British forced down their throats how to Think, dress
and Behave. JUI can
only understand the British "etiquette and dress
codes", for his people never developed their own
concept that could rival the oyinbo's way. So when a Yoruba talks about the
well developed "Omoluabi" concept, all JUI can do
is to mock it as inferior. When one asked "inferior to
what"? JUI is left wondering. This was why many of these guys
were mocking Buhari's mode of clothing when he met world
leaders. THEY CANNOT APPRECIATE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY
NEVER HAD. All they
knew while growing up was what the Whiteman forced on

them.Everything is

clear-cut to Africans like JUI, no sense of Africa as
mystical, as literal or to evaluate the philosophical part
of any African narrative past. The Osun Grove, the Oranmiyan
Grove all these are just mere tourist attractions, nothing
Sacred about them......or they think
"fetish"!
The same
guys who go to mosque or church everyday and believe the
hogwash sold to them everyday.........the hogwash that made
them become Refugees in foreign land 'cos other
hogwash-hearers became intolerant of others and decided to
fight for Allah or Jesus......these same guys well educated
and smart and of Sterling qualities that Africa can be proud
of, are so lacking in the simple understanding of African
ways of Life. If you
don't accept your humble beginning, and you fully
embraced oyinbo faulty ways, how are you going to catch up

with the oyinbo guy?They want African believers to

keep reeducating them, while they keep openly rejecting
their past. These are "Apiroro" guys, the

pretenders!I wonder

why that should be mine or anyone's job. I mean to reeducate an African
about his past? Unless they are kids, of what
good does that serve?A
past they rejected and makes mockery of......His own past he
abandoned to embrace a whiteman's Hogwash, the same

whiteman's that took his people as Slaves.Lemme get this straight, was

their no bible when the whiteman took their people as
Slaves, threw the weak into the ocean, and branded the
strong slaves with hot irons?
We have situations where Jesus
people are still at war with Mohammed people all over the
world, that is not of concern to our eggheads. They are not
bothered because they silently support one side against the
other.
Point is:
there is no difference between what JUI termed
"myth" in Yoruba past and Jesus life  story
including his birth.If
one could accept one man being three gods, that person have

no mouth to mock anyone.It's just signs of lull in
daily work.Shikena Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm,

even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” —
Dhamapada, verse 81.
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:10 PM, Adeniran Adeboye

<aade...@mac.com>
wrote:


Brother Afis,
There you go again with
another inimitable exposition. Woosh!!!
Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my
iPhone
On Sep 21, 2016, at 8:21
AM, afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

"The
following exchange between Dr Akin Awofolaju and JUI
indicated that Dr Akin wanted people to just accept the myth
that Oduduwa was a god/deity who emerged in Yoruba land with
chains from heaven to
Ile-Ife.".......JUI.

Afis comment: I
am sure Dr Awofolaju, of all people, did not
"request" that you accept what you called a

"myth that Odua was a God".I don't

think so, Dr Awofolaju is an "Explainer" not and
"Enforcer". Yoruba Way of Life doesn't include
"Enforcement", Ifa begins with narrative,
explanation, and ends with advise. I am sure the doctor
doesn't care if JUI accepted his explanation or
not.
Every religion has
its stories. I have read many
religious books including Geeta and Torah, and I came to
understand that all of these religions harbor their
core-belief on what unbelievers may call "myths",
that which may sound unreasonable to the

unbelievers.Yoruba's

core-belief perches, like an eagle with might wings spread,
on Yoruba religion the takes its roots from
Ifa. For you to understand why Odua is not only the
father, but the creator, you have to be one with the
religion of the people, just as understanding Jewry crests
on an understanding of its Religion. That's why it
is hard to erase Yoruba Way from those Slaves who managed to
keep the torch lit in South America, even at the threat of
Death. JUI, I say this honestly, Odua does not need your
approval.......Santeria and other branches of Yoruba
religion that came out of His creation are testimonies from

those who believe in Him.Can an Indian who

believes in Rama or Krishna beg for Afis
approval? Can a Hindu
"request" Afis to "accept that Krishna is a

God"?For to beg Afis would be as ridiculous just as

yours, JUI.
There was Jesus
walking on water into a river, and in the Biblical
"myth" Jesus never drowned. Can an unbiased
scientist accept such "myth that Jesus floats on water

with no floating devices"?Does that stop

"illegitimate" birth of Jesus.Let's think

this over out-of-the-xtian-box for a minute, because
"oro loko mokomoro wa":If you had a woman
by any of their offices, and you claimed the woman just woke
up and "voila!", she found herself carrying a
baby, all down to the last scientist, I am sure they would
laughed you out of their offices and immediately called
their friends to share in the joke. It is natural
thing we do, we accept a story that suits our psycho-makeup,
we reject others we don't like. It is part of the
psycho-filtration system, to first accept, then to discard

old, and then to embrace anew.Even among

Afis?I, Afis Omo-Oba-Metta-Niga, a direct descendant

of Odua, I will never be ashamed or confused or reject my

Beginning.JUI, stop

kidding, you ain't gon' change no

mind.Shikena AfisSent from my iPhone

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[Afis Deinde]

"And  misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.".......Alagba Leye Ige.

Afis comment: That above is confusing. One God subdivided into three or Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic speakers.

Call me naive, but I don't get it. It is too fudged up, fogged in the cloudy skies.

All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They.

See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.

I have to say sir, Alagba Leye, you have to blame JUI, a Jesus believer mocking my own religious belief. Sir, isu eni nii towo eni b'epo!

Your Jesus people are always ripping the "Asa ibile" believers. We are gentle souls, we don't ask anyone to convert or believe us, you don't see us at your doorsteps, like Ajeri Jehovah or Ajagbemo-Keferi Muslims. We just dey kamkpe!

When like Olumba Ozumba, God-Odua (sallahu allahi wasallam) is ridiculed, you open a floodgate for a follower to respond. So preaching to Afis ain't gon' work.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

[Adeniran Adeboye]

Ha ha a, brother Afis,

Well, our folks say, "ajegbodo nw'eni kunra". It is the crab mentality.

There is no doubt that the Yoruba had advanced a world class mode of spirituality

and that that mode has spread to the Western Hemisphere by its own power. That this achievement has generated envy is OK. I am just happy that the black race can show off that much ownership of fundamental thoughts in our world of ideas. The reason that Yoruba religion is now competitive, and ultimately supreme, is that it does not rest solely on beliefs but, more importantly, on sober acknowledgement of uncertainty. Ifa divination has been the inimitable way of managing that uncertainty in the lives of individuals. That it rests on the binomial distributions with 4 or 8 of what we now call Bernouili trials is a testament to the genius of our ancestors. Mathematics remains the ultimate language of nature.

The idiocy often given vent on these fora emanate from deep seated inferiority complex. Since not every Jew believes in the Bible, nor every Arab in the Koran, it is not to be expected that every Yoruba is an unquestioning votary of the Yoruba story of how the world came to be. The sad part is that those among us who, though super schooled, remain patently undereducated and would boldfacedly attempt to rubbish Yoruba story as not based on science. Meanwhile nobody has found the Garden of Eden, given any proof of resurrection or ascension. Yet the illogic of "their superstition is better than ours" control the minds and actions of many among them.

The pity is that some of these folks are so insecure in their own skins that they must continually dig at others, up to telling white lies, and bullishly too. On these matters, VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you and I are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes. True to its ilk, the Serpent calls us YEC, but eat your heart out Wharfy: inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba.

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/8DCD01C1-F26E-4AAD-8E93-9DE0ACB2528C%40yahoo.com.

[Mobolaji Aluko]

Dokita Adeniran:

Oh boy, you remind me of that EOY song:

Inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba

Inu mi dun wipe mo j'omo Olorun

Congratulations, ore m'owo re wa

Ore m'owo re wa, Ore m'owo re wa!

Congraulations, ore m'owo re wa!

Such a long time ago!

Bolaji Aluko

Shaking his mind

A firm member of the YEC

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Ha ha a, brother Afis,

Well, our folks say, "ajegbodo nw'eni kunra". It is the crab mentality.

There is no doubt that the Yoruba had advanced a world class mode of spirituality

and that that mode has spread to the Western Hemisphere by its own power. That this achievement has generated envy is OK. I am just happy that the black race can show off that much ownership of fundamental thoughts in our world of ideas. The reason that Yoruba religion is now competitive, and ultimately supreme, is that it does not rest solely on beliefs but, more importantly, on sober acknowledgement of uncertainty. Ifa divination has been the inimitable way of managing that uncertainty in the lives of individuals. That it rests on the binomial distributions with 4 or 8 of what we now call Bernouili trials is a testament to the genius of our ancestors. Mathematics remains the ultimate language of nature.

The idiocy often given vent on these fora emanate from deep seated inferiority complex. Since not every Jew believes in the Bible, nor every Arab in the Koran, it is not to be expected that every Yoruba is an unquestioning votary of the Yoruba story of how the world came to be. The sad part is that those among us who, though super schooled, remain patently undereducated and would boldfacedly attempt to rubbish Yoruba story as not based on science. Meanwhile nobody has found the Garden of Eden, given any proof of resurrection or ascension. Yet the illogic of "their superstition is better than ours" control the minds and actions of many among them.

The pity is that some of these folks are so insecure in their own skins that they must continually dig at others, up to telling white lies, and bullishly too. On these matters, VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you and I are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes. True to its ilk, the Serpent calls us YEC, but eat your heart out Wharfy: inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba.

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

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[Mobolaji Aluko]

Afis:

Agenebode means "We cannot go any further" - as a result of Joe Igietseme's people being chased all the way from Benin until the Niger PREVENTED them from crossing, and going any further!  Joe can confirm this....

By the way, as for the Weppa Wanno Kingdom was historically led by drummers - you should see Joe Igietseme drum - and unified by an Okumagbe ("unifier") - hence Joe Igietseme cottoning on to Oduduwa as a "unifier" - like his Okumagbe:

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weppa_Wanno

Weppa Wanno is a Kingdom in Etsako East Council, South- South geo political zone of Nigeria. It is the homeland of Uwano people in Etsako East council. The people of Weppa Wanno speak Etsako languages with Uwano dialect.

It is bounded by Avianwu, Ibie, Ekperi, and Idah across the Niger River.

Weppa Wanno consists of several villages and towns, while the city of Agenebode serves as the capital and ancestral city of all Weppa Wanno people both at home and in diaspora. It is also the administrative headquarters of Etsako East Council. Unuedeghor, Emokweme, Oshiolo, Ekwotsor, Iviari, Ovao, Ivioghe, Iviukwe, Othame, Iviukhua, Igiode, Ivianokpodi, Iviebua are names of some of the villages that makes up Weppa Wanno Kingdom.

Administratively Weppa Wanno people were republicans, prior to colonial rule. The issue of kingship in Weppa Wanno is a modern day creation. The clans were historically ruled by various Ukpi drummers before the incursion of the colonialists, and then the village head who oversees various towns and villages. After this is the family head.

The Okumagbe's stool was created through the Colonial Government Chief Commissioner's letter No. 12941108 of 27 May 1939, after the merger of Weppa and Wanno clans, and Chief Ogbaki 1, became the first monarch called Okumagbe which can be translated as the ‘unifier’. The throne of the Okumagbe is rotated among the five kinship groups. The present Okumagbe of Weppa Wanno is Dr. Eghabor a Chartered Accountant and industrialist, who is from the Iviokpisa kinship group.

UNQUOTE

Let us move on.....for Joe Igietseme my be the next Okumagbe of Weppan Wanno....

There you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Haha....Prof Adeboye is a Master Literary Scientist with an amazing expertise in word use! How could the good Prof high-5 Afis' rumbling ramble below and concluded in a veiled manner that "there is truly a difference of opinion" among his folks about Oduduwa's mortal versus god-like existence? 

Read Prof Adeboye's statement that said it all: """On these matters [Oduduwa, Ifa etc], VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you [Afis] and I [Prof Adeboye] are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes."" Uh?

Haha......Of course, VC Bolaji and Oba Obateru of Ugbo have told us in unequivocal term that they believe that Oduduwa was a great Guy who came from the East [Offa or Edo] to unite the Yorubas; however, Leye, Afis et al [and possibly Prof Adeboye himself, until he musters the courage to tell us his precise position] want us to accept the myth that Oduduwa was a god who descended from the skies on chains; and he was a part of creation and harbinger of Ifa. However, the historical records support the previous version, that Oduduwa met Yorubas already in SW; and so the myth that Oduduwa was a god has no place in contemporary discussion forums of the 21st Century AD! O-pari o!! Haha!

So where is Bro Afis' distraction into Agenebode history coming into this debate? Eh? Folks go take dribbling and obfuscation quench mutumus, man! And if they're interested in Agenebode/Weppa Wanno history, the historical records are THERE! A valid account supported by archaeological, linguistic and certainly genetic evidence is that General Adaobi, Wisdom-packed Okpisa and Chief Priest/Levi Owa were sent to the Northern border of the Edo Kingdom to forestall the incursion of Fulani jihadists; and these Edos and their families settled in the present Weppa Wanno Kingdom. The valid records would show that Weppa Wannos [HQters: Agenebode] maintained their allegiance to the Oba of Bini for a long time [in fact to-date in kinship form!]; all major achievements at the Northern borders were frequently reported to the Bini Center; and so people were going to Benin regularly as we all interact with our Capital Cities in contemporary times. Yes, Agenebode also has myths; but myths are subordinated to historical facts and evidence, irrespective of how well and special [psychologically] they make us feel! That's JUI's POINT!! HAHA!!!

Take care. JUI

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Ha ha a, brother Afis,

Well, our folks say, "ajegbodo nw'eni kunra". It is the crab mentality.

There is no doubt that the Yoruba had advanced a world class mode of spirituality

and that that mode has spread to the Western Hemisphere by its own power. That this achievement has generated envy is OK. I am just happy that the black race can show off that much ownership of fundamental thoughts in our world of ideas. The reason that Yoruba religion is now competitive, and ultimately supreme, is that it does not rest solely on beliefs but, more importantly, on sober acknowledgement of uncertainty. Ifa divination has been the inimitable way of managing that uncertainty in the lives of individuals. That it rests on the binomial distributions with 4 or 8 of what we now call Bernouili trials is a testament to the genius of our ancestors. Mathematics remains the ultimate language of nature.

The idiocy often given vent on these fora emanate from deep seated inferiority complex. Since not every Jew believes in the Bible, nor every Arab in the Koran, it is not to be expected that every Yoruba is an unquestioning votary of the Yoruba story of how the world came to be. The sad part is that those among us who, though super schooled, remain patently undereducated and would boldfacedly attempt to rubbish Yoruba story as not based on science. Meanwhile nobody has found the Garden of Eden, given any proof of resurrection or ascension. Yet the illogic of "their superstition is better than ours" control the minds and actions of many among them.

The pity is that some of these folks are so insecure in their own skins that they must continually dig at others, up to telling white lies, and bullishly too. On these matters, VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you and I are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes. True to its ilk, the Serpent calls us YEC, but eat your heart out Wharfy: inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba.

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Hahaha.....JUI said it at the beginning o; they're now fighting among themselves because they're not doing the due diligence to separate historical facts from myths! O-pari o! Haha!! Naijas na wa!!! JUI [ducking from any loose blows!]

​--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

"And  misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.".......Alagba Leye Ige.

Afis comment: That above is confusing. One God subdivided into three or Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic speakers.

Call me naive, but I don't get it. It is too fudged up, fogged in the cloudy skies.

All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They.

See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.

I have to say sir, Alagba Leye, you have to blame JUI, a Jesus believer mocking my own religious belief. Sir, isu eni nii towo eni b'epo!

Your Jesus people are always ripping the "Asa ibile" believers. We are gentle souls, we don't ask anyone to convert or believe us, you don't see us at your doorsteps, like Ajeri Jehovah or Ajagbemo-Keferi Muslims. We just dey kamkpe!

When like Olumba Ozumba, God-Odua (sallahu allahi wasallam) is ridiculed, you open a floodgate for a follower to respond. So preaching to Afis ain't gon' work.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

Afis,
You may wish to “re-educate” as much as you want, but leave your anti-Christianity out of it. It is lack of understanding to state that the past is made mockery of, especially knowing that to arrive at the present usually infers some negation of the past. It is also a lack of understanding  to simply infer  a division between “Jesus People and Muhammed People”—to date, the Middle East wars were NOT caused or sustained  by “Jesus People”—whatever that means. Besides, it has been said that a “myth” is something not witnessed by others, so it is a misunderstanding to state that “Jesus life story including his birth” is a “myth” It was witnessed and recorded. And Jesus is alive and called upon. But Ogun was also said to have asked to be called upon if and when necessary—so why was he not (yet) called upon, abi, he is not yet needed?  And  misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.
So, sir, DO NOT turn this into a “religious war”. LEAVE CHRISTIANITY out of your diatribes. If you want to engage in theological discussions, you must have a very clear and good grasp of what you are opposing.
Leye Ige




--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com
Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

[NaijaPolitics]<NaijaPolitics@yahoogroups.com>

wrote:   
 









      JUI,

(1) How in the world did the creation story which I
referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that
"Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as
Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was
"involved" at creation?  In any case, MUST
"fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the
SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na
wah!!!!



(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit:
"I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any
incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed
that Oduduwa was a god or deity.  Waiting for your
response."



Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:



Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t
marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -
Punch Newspapers

 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Haha.....Prof Adeboye's attempt to go into a dancing floor with Bro Afis is like the US military attempting to fight like the Vietnamese! One believes in terms of engagement, human rights, due process and rule of law unconvention; the other believes in "anything is game", no qualms, no holds barred, from stones, bio-weapons, AK-47 to WMDs etc! So the good Prof will keep stumbling whenever he attempts to play like Bro Afis......haha! Take care. JUI

​---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

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[Afis Deinde]

"It is also a lack of understanding  to simply infer  a division between “Jesus People and Muhammed People”—to date, the Middle East wars were NOT caused or sustained  by “Jesus People”—whatever that means. Besides, it has been said that a “myth” is something not witnessed by others, so it is a misunderstanding to state that “Jesus life story including his birth” is a “myth” It was witnessed and recorded.".......Alagba Leye.

Afis comment: I don't like being misquoted. 

I never said Jesus birth was a "myth", though I don't think his birth was a myth or was recorded.

I plainly indicate it was all hogwash. That if anyone could believe such hokey pokey on Jesus, I find it hard to see why such person can look me in the eye and mock Odua's descending from heaven.

If someone could believe that when Jesus was nailed to the cross, and after the Roman "medical examiner" confirmed his death, Jesus then rose and floated in space without spacecraft, then it shouldn't be hard for such believer to accept my own belief on Odua.

In case such person that accepts the fairytales on Jesus by the Western World exists, and can't accept my fairytales because it comes from Black Africa, then reeducation means nothing!

Alagba Leye, Jesus and Mohammed peoples have been at war since Torah, Bible and Qur'an all exist. Some people would say when young Pricip, a Serbian Muslim gunned down the Archduke Ferdinand, a Christian, that precipitated the WW1.

Jesus people used that pretense to issue an ultimatum on poor Muslim-Bosnia.

Remember Bosnia was part of the countries ruled by Mohammed followers of Turkey?

Now let's move fast forward to now.

Without wasting your time:

US and NATO are the new Jesus people while the old world of Islamic people is still fighting them.

So don't tell me there's no religious wars going on between Jesus and Mohammed people.

"And Jesus is alive and called upon. But Ogun was also said to have asked to be called upon if and when necessary—so why was he not (yet) called upon, abi, he is not yet needed?"......Alagba Leye Ige.

Afis comment:  Technically and Physically that's not true, Jesus is dead. 

I don't believe Jesus is coming back. 

I think the whiteman is lying to you, it's all gimmick.

Ogun's coming all depends on Jesus keeping his promise.

Ogun is awaiting Jesus arrival. When Jesus comes, Ogun will arrive too in any airline that flies in Jesus. 

If Jesus changes his mind and refuses to show up, Ogun definitely won't come. Lobatan!

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Afis Deinde]

JUI is a silly fellow, he has no points, so he hides. No one is fighting. You are a typical Nigerian, any debate is a fight, you guys would say "ha it was fire for fire", nothing you debate on that is not misconstrued as fighting.

We are conversing about Jesus, what does "due diligence" has to do with if Jesus stories were real or pack of lies?

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

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[Joseph Igietseme]

No Bro Afis......we're discussing whether Oduduwa was a god and part of Ifa account of creation [and should be worshipped] or he was a great human being from the East [Offa/Edo] who united the Yoruba that were already in SW when he arrived Ile-Ife [and should be honored like other great human achievers including George Washington]!

Note that it was Afis, Leye and Dr Akin who stretched the discussion [unsuccessfully and unnecessarily] to Jesus! JUI's just setting the records STRAIGHT before we go too far and we dont know where we're coming from!

Now, Bro Afis, tell us: was Oduduwa a god, a deity that should be worshipped or he was a great Guy in the ranking of men like George Washington who united people [who should be honored for his achievments but not worshipped as a god]? Talk FACTS to us........haha! Take care. JUI

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

JUI is a silly fellow, he has no points, so he hides. No one is fighting. You are a typical Nigerian, any debate is a fight, you guys would say "ha it was fire for fire", nothing you debate on that is not misconstrued as fighting.

We are conversing about Jesus, what does "due diligence" has to do with if Jesus stories were real or pack of lies?

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hahaha.....JUI said it at the beginning o; they're now fighting among themselves because they're not doing the due diligence to separate historical facts from myths! O-pari o! Haha!! Naijas na wa!!! JUI [ducking from any loose blows!]

​--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com> wrote:

"And  misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.".......Alagba Leye Ige.

Afis comment: That above is confusing. One God subdivided into three or Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic speakers.

Call me naive, but I don't get it. It is too fudged up, fogged in the cloudy skies.

All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They.

See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.

I have to say sir, Alagba Leye, you have to blame JUI, a Jesus believer mocking my own religious belief. Sir, isu eni nii towo eni b'epo!

Your Jesus people are always ripping the "Asa ibile" believers. We are gentle souls, we don't ask anyone to convert or believe us, you don't see us at your doorsteps, like Ajeri Jehovah or Ajagbemo-Keferi Muslims. We just dey kamkpe!

When like Olumba Ozumba, God-Odua (sallahu allahi wasallam) is ridiculed, you open a floodgate for a follower to respond. So preaching to Afis ain't gon' work.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

Afis,
You may wish to “re-educate” as much as you want, but leave your anti-Christianity out of it. It is lack of understanding to state that the past is made mockery of, especially knowing that to arrive at the present usually infers some negation of the past. It is also a lack of understanding  to simply infer  a division between “Jesus People and Muhammed People”—to date, the Middle East wars were NOT caused or sustained  by “Jesus People”—whatever that means. Besides, it has been said that a “myth” is something not witnessed by others, so it is a misunderstanding to state that “Jesus life story including his birth” is a “myth” It was witnessed and recorded. And Jesus is alive and called upon. But Ogun was also said to have asked to be called upon if and when necessary—so why was he not (yet) called upon, abi, he is not yet needed?  And  misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.
So, sir, DO NOT turn this into a “religious war”. LEAVE CHRISTIANITY out of your diatribes. If you want to engage in theological discussions, you must have a very clear and good grasp of what you are opposing.
Leye Ige




--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
To: africanworldforum@googlegroups.com

Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Leye Ige]

“One God subdivided into three or Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic speakers. Call me naive, but I don't get it. It is too fudged up, fogged in the cloudy skies. All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They. See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.”-Afis



The manifestation of a subdivision can never take on the nature of the whole hence if God/Olodumare is subdivided, we will no longer be talking about God but the subdivided parts. The song merely reflects the unity not the subdivision—that’s why it ends with “blessed Trinity”—the affirmation of the whole. So, God/Olodumare is NOT subdivided into “three persons”. God is ONE manifesting in the three dimensions with each dimension manifesting the SAME NATURE as the other unless you are saying every manifestation require a different attribute, which will end up deny the nature itself thus denying God. Now, if you say “they are Him and in Him is They” you are merely confirming the Trinity. Much as Yoruba theology sought/seeks to “KNOW GOD” (Olodumare)—its “hermeneutics” fell short since none of the orishas were/are able to show the way. But Jesus Christ came and showed the way.
Leye Ige(YEC).

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
To: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 8:57 AM

"And
 misrepresentation is NOT a form of re-education as you
noted “if one could accept one man being three gods….”
There is a MAJOR difference between Three-in-One and one
subdivided into three.".......Alagba Leye
Ige.

Afis comment: That above is confusing. One God
subdivided into three or Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic
speakers.Call
me naive, but I don't get it. It is too fudged up,
fogged in the cloudy skies.
All I know is the God
in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy,
indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods,
just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different

persons and they are Him, and Him is They.See, you guys are making me right

a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.
I have to say sir,
Alagba Leye, you have to blame JUI, a Jesus believer mocking
my own religious belief. Sir, isu eni nii towo eni

b'epo!Your Jesus

people are always ripping the "Asa ibile"
believers. We are gentle souls, we don't ask anyone to
convert or believe us, you don't see us at your
doorsteps, like Ajeri Jehovah or Ajagbemo-Keferi Muslims. We
just dey kamkpe!
When like Olumba
Ozumba, God-Odua (sallahu allahi wasallam) is ridiculed, you
open a floodgate for a follower to respond. So preaching to

Afis ain't gon' work.Shikena 

Afis“Just as a solid
rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not
affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse
81.
Sent from my iPhone

To: africanw...@googlegroups.com

Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com"
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[Leye Ige]

“No Bro Afis......we're discussing whether Oduduwa was a god and part of Ifa account of creation [and should be worshipped] or he was a great human being from the East [Offa/Edo] who united the Yoruba that were already in SW when he arrived Ile-Ife [and should be honored like other great human achievers including George Washington]! Note that it was Afis, Leye and Dr Akin who stretched the discussion [unsuccessfully and unnecessarily] to Jesus! JUI's just setting the records STRAIGHT before we go too far and we dont know where we're coming from! Now, Bro Afis, tell us: was Oduduwa a god, a deity that should be worshipped or he was a great Guy in the ranking of men like George Washington who united people [who should be honored for his achievments but not worshipped as a god]? Talk FACTS to us........haha! Take care.”—JUI

JUI,
(1) You are confusing TWO different periods in history. What you wrote above is like saying John Quincy Adams must have been born in the Garden of Eden. You “MUST” know(??) that Ifa account of creation is NOT about “a great human being from the East…” for the human being MUST have been created BEFORE he can be in Offa or anywhere. So, LOGICALLY and HISTORICALLY, nothing stops a created being from taking the name of the creator. Hence there are such names as Oloruntoba, Oluwaseyi etc all derived from the God attribute. Just as anyone can name himself after any great man on earth, like Martin Luther King (Sr).
(2) Now you are wondering whether Oduduwa was/is a god and then qualify that statement with “and should be worshiped”. If you want to REALLY know, why not consult the Ifa creation story which will definitely tell you his status?
Leye Ige


--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
To: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 11:10 AM

Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm,
even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” —
Dhamapada, verse 81.
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Joseph Igietseme
<jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hahaha.....JUI said it at the beginning o;
they're now fighting among themselves because
they're not doing the due diligence to separate
historical facts from myths! O-pari o! Haha!! Naijas na
wa!!! JUI [ducking from any loose
blows!]​-----------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------ ---------​
On Thu,

Sep 22, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via

africanworldforum@googlegroups

.com
Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com"
<stev...@yahoo.com>,
"NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com
>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,
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"naija...@googlegroups.com"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>,
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"Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
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com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup
s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

[NaijaPolitics]<NaijaPolitics@

"African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup

s.com>,
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'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
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 Date:

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[Joseph Igietseme]

What is the meaning of all these tongue-in-cheek talks, Brother Leye?

Biko, explain these your excerpted 2 statements in the context of whether you BELIEVE Oduduwa was a god and part of human creation that should be worshipped or he was a great Guy who united the Yorubas and should be honored....O-pari o!

1. ""...LOGICALLY and HISTORICALLY, nothing stops a created being from taking the name of the creator. Hence there are such names as Oloruntoba, Oluwaseyi etc all derived from  the God attribute."""

(2)      Now you are wondering whether Oduduwa was/is a god and then qualify that statement with “and should be worshiped”. If you want to REALLY know, why not consult the Ifa creation story which will definitely tell you his status?

​""​

​Dont even come back here with sophistries or more obfuscations. Just tell us what you believe: Oduduwa is a god/deity or a human being who did great to unite the Yorubas! Why is this too difficult for you and Prof Adeboye? Na wa for una ooo...haha!

Take care.  JUI​ [squeezing ethnicists' B**ls!]

​--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:30 AM, 'Leye Ige' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

“No Bro Afis......we're discussing whether Oduduwa was a god and part of Ifa account of creation [and should be worshipped] or he was a great human being from the East [Offa/Edo] who united the Yoruba that were already in SW when he arrived Ile-Ife [and should be honored like other great human achievers including George Washington]! Note that it was Afis, Leye and Dr Akin who stretched the discussion [unsuccessfully and unnecessarily] to Jesus! JUI's just setting the records STRAIGHT before we go too far and we dont know where we're coming from! Now, Bro Afis, tell us: was Oduduwa a god, a deity that should be worshipped or he was a great Guy in the ranking of men like George Washington who united people [who should be honored for his achievments but not worshipped as a god]? Talk FACTS to us........haha! Take care.”—JUI

JUI,
(1)     You are confusing TWO different periods in history.  What you wrote above is like saying John Quincy Adams must have been born in the Garden of Eden. You “MUST” know(??) that Ifa account of creation is NOT about “a great human being from the East…” for the human being MUST have been created BEFORE he can be in Offa or anywhere. So, LOGICALLY and HISTORICALLY, nothing stops a created being from taking the name of the creator. Hence there are such names as Oloruntoba, Oluwaseyi etc all derived from  the God attribute. Just as anyone can name himself after any great man on earth, like Martin Luther King (Sr).
(2)      Now you are wondering whether Oduduwa was/is a god and then qualify that statement with “and should be worshiped”. If you want to REALLY know, why not consult the Ifa creation story which will definitely tell you his status?
Leye Ige


--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

 To: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>
 Cc: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

 Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 11:10 AM

 No Bro Afis......we're discussing whether
 Oduduwa was a god and part of Ifa account of creation [and
 should be worshipped] or he was a great human being from the
 East [Offa/Edo] who united the Yoruba that were already in
 SW when he arrived Ile-Ife [and should be honored like other
 great human achievers including George
 Washington]!
 Note that it was Afis, Leye and Dr Akin who
 stretched the discussion [unsuccessfully and unnecessarily]
 to Jesus! JUI's just setting the records STRAIGHT before
 we go too far and we dont know where we're coming
 from!
 Now, Bro Afis, tell us: was Oduduwa a god, a
 deity that should be worshipped or he was a great Guy in the
 ranking of men like George Washington who united people [who
 should be honored for his achievments but not worshipped as
 a god]? Talk FACTS to us........haha! Take care.
 JUI​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
 On Thu,
 Sep 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via

 AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>

 from it, send an email to africanworldforum+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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[Chukwuma S. Agwunobi]

Aluko, Oga Adeboye, AFIS, Awofolaju & Yeye Ige:

All of you are trying so hard to prove to us that the EDOS came from Yoruba. About 80% of those who claimed to be Iyoroba came from most of the West Africa countries after the freed American Slaves.

 

And also due to the Open Border rubbish called ECOWAS. These ECOWAS citizens settled in Lagos because that is where the beef is and became Iyorobas.

Aluko you told Wharfsnake to stay clear because the debate is so far gentle without abuse.

 

That is true because you are debating among Ngbati people. And with EDO Yoyo man and cunny soul called Josef Igietseme who wants to be seen as a detribalized Nigerian that can get well, get along with anybody at all cost. Josef Igietseme is not highly regarded at EDO cycle.

 

Lookia Aluko, there will be abuse soon if EDOS who doesn't like the Ngbati people and your write up get into it.

 

They will be one soon if Igbo’s get into it to let you and your people see how it feels when you got your shameless evil soul into the debate to tell us that IKWERRE has nothing in common with the Igbo’s.

 

The same people, who told us that IKWERRE is not Igbo, are working so hard to prove to everybody that all Nigerians came from Yoruba.

Instead of debating the issue, you are all attacking STEVEK. Ignoramus and arrogant people. You all talk like the shameless White American KKK’s who said that their blood is pure.

 

Look how educated people is writing trash that ODUDUWA came or fall from Heaven, to prove to us that they are the superior tribe. Oga Adeboye became very angry when STEVEK challenged them on it. He dabbles into Relativity or so as if we are in the Class Room.

 

But what is this young Dr. Akin Awofolaju doing with his Ivy League PhD from Cornel University to write and agree to this crap that ODUDUWA came or fall from Heaven?  

 

That was the type of Education we got from Primary School at Akure. The Ngbati teachers told us that Awo is next to GOD. We even sing and pray with the name of AWO. Elder Yorubas, much older than Awo call him Baba Awo.

 

Awo in turn Doctrinated to the Yorubas that they are better than the Hausa/Fulani’s and Igbo’s. Only those that agreed with AWO and the Yorubas are not tribalist.

 

Tell us how the EDOS are more related to the damn Ngbati people than IKWERRE to Igbo’s?

 

Yorubas are the cause of the land and border fight between the Ijaws, Urohobos and Itsekiri by excising their lands and places into Yoruba state. They ran to Lagos to ask what is the problem?

 

When they stay put in Lagos, they doesn’t know how other Nigerians feel about them.

What a wicked people, with rotten souls. You go about causing confusion and knocking heads.

 

Aluko, keep going with the debate. May be the Ngbatis will stop it when Igbo’s bring IKWERRE-IGBO angle into it and shut the nonsense debate down.

 

NA ME AND UNA.

 

And with this, I rest my case.

 

Chukwuma "Vicious Animal" Agwunobi

Seattle, Washington U. S. A

 

---

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; NaijaNetwork <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 6:30 AM
Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@ googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups. com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@ yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@ yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

.

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[Leye Ige]

JUI,
You are not Yoruba so you won’t understand certain INNATE consciousness; so let me try and spell it out. Typically, when Oduduwa is mentioned, a Yoruba “automatically” THINKS of either the “creation Oduduwa” or Oduduwa the king. That is why you find the Yoruba equated with “oodua” as in “eda omo oodua”; “eda” being a creature. Now, Oduduwa the king was and is NOT deified. You cannot now come around and ask us to deify him.
Why BOTH Oduduwas are important to this discussion is because of the Izoduwa/Ekarlardehan fallacy, a person who might have emigrated from Benin for whatever reason(s). Because of the creation story, the Yoruba(people) of Ife already had a consciousness of who Oduduwa was. When a child is to be named, Ifa is consulted and a process known as Isendaye( the child’s walk through life) is conducted. The settlement of Ile Ife of the period comprised several communities both within and outside the “metropolis” who would be accustomed to the naming culture. ANYONE within that circumference would therefore be involved in its affairs, one way or the other. If you’ve come across parts of the current Ooni’s biography, you would have come across the portion that said that he was “ENITAN”—a person of history. His life’s journey and ascension to the throne bears witness to this. A similar scenario occurred for Oduduwa who later became King after a wholesome struggle against then then existing order. So, Oduduwa the King was NOT a deity. That ought to have been clear IF you are able to DIFFERENTIATE between the creation reference and the King.
Now, it is/was NOT possible for a migrant to simply come around and take over the persona of the “creation Oduduwa” UNLESS you are saying Ifa said so, otherwise, such an individual would not have taken over the only the persona but also the entire “religious system”. If perchance the migrant became the Oba, he would have to overthrow quite a lot of the existing order otherwise his reign would NOT be productive and the place would be DIFFERENT from what it turned out to be. And we KNOW such was NOT the case with either Ile-Ife or Oduduwa the king.
So, JUI, this is NOT about “sophistry or obfuscations”—your favorite expressions when you run out of steam. I DELIBERATELY introduced the “creation Oduduwa” just so the Izoduwa issue would be placed in context.
Now, you can also NOT start about whether the “creation Oduduwa” was/is a “god”(orisha) or not simply because several “beings” came to be associated with creation( the Bible says ”Come, let us make man in our image). The Yoruba say, “enikan kii je awade”. When God says “come”, HE was NOT referencing himself alone.
Leye Ige



--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 12:20 PM

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at

Leye Ige





------------------------------ --------------

On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:



 Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's

BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people
don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

 To: "African GM" <africanworldforum@

googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
"stev...@yahoo.com"
<stev...@yahoo.com>,
"NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com
>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,
"yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,
"naija...@googlegroups.com"

<naija...@googlegroups.com>,

"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,

"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,
"OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.
com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@
yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@

 On Thu,

 Sep 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via

 AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@
googlegroups.com>

 wrote:

 JUI is a silly fellow, he has no

 points, so he hides. No one is fighting. You are a
typical

 Nigerian, any debate is a fight, you guys would say
"ha

 it was fire for fire", nothing you debate on that
is

 not misconstrued as fighting.

 We are conversing about Jesus,

 what does "due diligence" has to do with if
Jesus

 stories were real or pack of lies?

 Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm,

 even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.”
—

 Dhamapada, verse 81.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Joseph Igietseme

 <jigie...@gmail.com>

 wrote:



 Hahaha.....JUI said it at the beginning o;

 they're now fighting among themselves because

 they're not doing the due diligence to separate

 historical facts from myths! O-pari o! Haha!! Naijas na

 wa!!! JUI [ducking from any loose

 blows!]​---------------------- -------

 ------------------------------

 ------------------------------ ---------​

 On Thu,

 Sep 22, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via

 AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@

 googlegroups.com>
wrote:

 Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm,

 even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.”
—

 Dhamapada, verse 81.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Sep 22, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>

 wrote:



 Afis,

 You may wish to “re-educate” as much

 as you want, but leave your anti-Christianity out of it.
It

 is lack of understanding to state that the past is made

 mockery of, especially knowing that to arrive at the
present

 usually infers some negation of the past. It is also a
lack

 of understanding  to simply infer  a division between

 “Jesus People and Muhammed People”—to date, the
Middle

 East wars were NOT caused or sustained  by “Jesus

 People”—whatever that means. Besides, it has been
said

 that a “myth” is something not witnessed by others,
so

 it is a misunderstanding to state that “Jesus life
story

 including his birth” is a “myth” It was witnessed
and

 recorded. And Jesus is alive and called upon. But Ogun
was

 also said to have asked to be called upon if and when

 necessary—so why was he not (yet) called upon, abi, he
is

 not yet needed?  And  misrepresentation is NOT a form
of

 re-education as you noted “if one could accept one
man

 being three gods….” There is a MAJOR difference
between

 Three-in-One and one subdivided into three.

 So, sir, DO NOT turn this into a

 “religious war”. LEAVE CHRISTIANITY out of your

 diatribes. If you want to engage in theological
discussions,

 you must have a very clear and good grasp of what you
are

 opposing.

 Leye Ige









 ------------------------------

 --------------

 On Thu, 9/22/16,

 Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com>

 wrote:

  Subject: Re: [africanworldforum]

 Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye

 Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair
in

 complexion –Oba Olugbo

  To:

 africanworldforum@googlegroups

 .com

  Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com"

 <stev...@yahoo.com>,

 "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

 >, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "naija...@googlegroups.com"

 <naija...@googlegroups.com>,

 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,

 "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,

 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

 m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com"
<NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com>, "Nigerian ID"
<niger...@yahoogroups.com>

  Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 7:52

 AM

  Eku owuro sir, Dr

  Adeboye:These

  antagonists of all-things-Yoruba are

 ignoramuses. They are

  also

 envious of Yoruba. None of them can point to a

  historical past that resemble the

 Indian, Chinese or the

  Jewish

 history. They have nothing to point at, as the

  beginning of their people.For example,

 JUI's

  Aghenebode's

 history on Wikipedia goes thus:

  @@@@@@@HistoryEditAgenebode was the

 regional

  headquarters of

 the Royal

  Niger Company, a

 mercantile company owned by the British

  Colonialists and currently the

 headquarters of Etsako East



 Local Government Area of Edo



 State.

  Educational

  institutionsEditEducational institutions

  Africa.Can JUI

  them.Everything is

 oyinbo guy?They want African believers to

  keep reeducating them, while they keep

 openly rejecting

  their past.

 These are "Apiroro" guys, the

  pretenders!I wonder

  why that should be mine or anyone's

 job. I mean to reeducate an African

  about his past? Unless they are kids,

 of what

  good does that

 serve?A

  past they rejected and

 makes mockery of......His own past he

  abandoned to embrace a whiteman's

 Hogwash, the same

 whiteman's that took his people as Slaves.Lemme get

  no mouth to mock anyone.It's just

 signs of lull in

  daily

 work.Shikena Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken

 Odua was a God".I don't

  think so, Dr Awofolaju is an

 "Explainer" not and



 "Enforcer". Yoruba Way of Life doesn't

 include



 "Enforcement", Ifa begins with

 narrative,

  explanation, and

 ends with advise. I am sure the doctor

  doesn't care if JUI accepted his

 explanation or

  not.

  Every religion has

  its stories. I have read many

  religious books including Geeta and

 Torah, and I came to



 understand that all of these religions harbor

 their

  core-belief on what

 unbelievers may call "myths",

  that which may sound unreasonable to

 the

 unbelievers.Yoruba's

 core-belief perches, like an eagle with might wings

 spread,

  on Yoruba religion the

 takes its roots from

  Ifa. For

 you to understand why Odua is not only the

  father, but the creator, you have to be

 one with the

  religion of the

 people, just as understanding Jewry crests

  on an understanding of its

 Religion. That's why it



 is hard to erase Yoruba Way from those Slaves who
managed

 to

  keep the torch lit in South

 America, even at the threat of



 Death. JUI, I say this honestly, Odua does not need

 your

  approval.......Santeria

 and other branches of Yoruba



 religion that came out of His creation are testimonies

 from

  those who believe in

 Him.Can an Indian who

  believes

 in Rama or Krishna beg for Afis

  approval? Can a Hindu

  "request" Afis to "accept

 that Krishna is a

 God"?For to beg Afis would be as ridiculous just

 as

  yours, JUI.

  There was Jesus

  walking on water into a river, and in

 the Biblical

  "myth"

 Jesus never drowned. Can an unbiased

  scientist accept such "myth that

 Jesus floats on water

  with no

 floating devices"?Does that stop

 "illegitimate" birth of Jesus.Let's

  Afis?I, Afis Omo-Oba-Metta-Niga, a

 direct descendant

  of Odua, I

 will never be ashamed or confused or reject my

  Beginning.JUI, stop

  kidding, you ain't gon' change

 no

  mind.Shikena AfisSent from

 my iPhone

  [NaijaPolitics]<NaijaPolitics@

 yahoogroups.com>

 WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

 m>,

  "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com"

  <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com>,

  "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

 "

  <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

 >,

  "Nigerian ID"

 <niger...@yahoogroups.com>



   Date:

   JUI​-------------------------

 ----



   -----------------------------

 -



   ----------------------------- -

     ​-------------------------- --

 -



    ----------------------------

 --



    ----------------------------

 --

  <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogrou p



    s.com>; NaijaPolitics

 e-Group



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[Joseph Igietseme]

Brother Leye,
Let's get you clearly for the records; are you saying that:
1. There were two Oduduwas in Yoruba history/anthropology: the first is the mythical Oduduwa associated with Yoruba cosmoloy including the belief that Ile-Ife is the birthplace of humanity & IFA was involved in the knowledge of creation etc; the second is Oduduwa the King who came into Ile-Ife while the Yorubas were already in SW but he used his superior knowledge, awareness, wiles and guilds to establish a dynasty, and he's the patriarchal figure of most key Yoruba Chieftains;

2. The two Oduduwas are the same; if yes, please EXPLAIN!
Take care. JUI

On Sep 22, 2016 3:00 PM, "'Leye Ige' via NaijaEvent" <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

JUI,
You are not Yoruba so you won’t understand certain INNATE consciousness;  so let me try and spell it out. Typically, when Oduduwa is mentioned, a Yoruba “automatically” THINKS of either the “creation Oduduwa” or Oduduwa the king. That is why you find the Yoruba equated with  “oodua” as in “eda omo oodua”; “eda” being a creature.  Now, Oduduwa the king was and is NOT deified. You cannot now come around and ask us to deify him.
Why BOTH Oduduwas are important to this discussion is because of the  Izoduwa/Ekarlardehan fallacy, a person   who might have emigrated from Benin for whatever reason(s). Because of the creation story, the Yoruba(people) of Ife already had a consciousness of who Oduduwa was. When a child is to be named, Ifa is consulted and a process known as Isendaye( the child’s walk through life) is conducted. The settlement of Ile Ife of the period comprised several communities both within and outside the “metropolis” who would be accustomed to the naming culture.   ANYONE within that circumference would  therefore be involved in its affairs, one way or the other. If you’ve come across parts of the current Ooni’s biography, you would have come across the portion that said that he was “ENITAN”—a person of history. His life’s journey and ascension to the throne bears witness to this. A similar scenario occurred for Oduduwa who later became King after a wholesome struggle against then then existing order. So, Oduduwa the King was NOT a deity. That ought to have been clear IF you are able to DIFFERENTIATE between the creation reference and the King.
Now, it is/was NOT possible for a migrant to simply come around and take over the persona of the “creation Oduduwa” UNLESS you are saying Ifa said so, otherwise, such an individual would not have taken over the only the persona but also the entire “religious system”. If perchance the migrant became the Oba, he would have to overthrow quite a lot of the existing order otherwise his reign would NOT be productive and the place would be DIFFERENT from what it turned out to be.  And we KNOW such was NOT the case with either Ile-Ife or Oduduwa the king.
So, JUI, this is NOT about “sophistry or obfuscations”—your favorite expressions when you run out of steam. I DELIBERATELY introduced the “creation Oduduwa” just so the Izoduwa issue would be placed in context.
Now, you can also NOT start about whether the “creation Oduduwa” was/is a “god”(orisha) or not simply because several “beings” came to be associated with creation( the Bible says ”Come, let us make man in our image). The Yoruba say, “enikan kii je awade”. When God says “come”, HE was NOT referencing himself alone.
Leye Ige



--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

  <naijapolitics@yahoogroups.com

  received this message because you ...

[Afis Deinde]

"The manifestation of a subdivision can never take on the nature of the whole hence if God/Olodumare is subdivided, we will no longer be talking about God but the subdivided parts. The song merely reflects the unity not the subdivision—that’s why it ends with “blessed Trinity”—the affirmation of the whole.".....Alagba Leye Ige.

Afis comment: "Blessed Trinity" is an affirmation of Three, not "whole".

It won't be called "Blessed Trinity" if at tailend they wanted a unified One. If One is so important and having Three persons to represent One was unnecessary, why even split them or make mention of Trinity?

In the dictionary, we have: "trin·i·ty

ˈtrinədē/

noun

1. the Christian Godhead as one God in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

   • a group of three people or things.

     "the wine was the first of a trinity of three excellent vintages"
   • the state of being three.

     "God is said to be trinity in unity"

     
     

     @@@@@@@@

     
     

     
     

If One is in Three persons, in modern times they  will diagnose the One as having split personality disorder.

But those were old times and it was acceptable that there exists Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

You cannot dribble your way out of that one, Alagba.

I understand the Trinity in your Christianity, because it is equally implied in my Yoruba religion too.

I just don't know why you choose to argue about these things, Alagba.

I even go further by understanding the concept of Jesus as the son of God, just as Odua was His son too, after all unlike Islam which calls us "servants or slaves of Allah", the Bible cuts Humans some slacks by calling us all the sons and daughters of God.

If we both accept that both sons were of equal birth, It then becomes mere conjectures in spelling out where, when and how Jesus and Odua's Heavenly dad decided to use His sons. We could assume that God's first device by placing Jesus in Mary's womb must have caused lots of scandal, so instead of finding a Segilola to place Odua in her womb, we may assume God just let him slide down the invincible Elevator device. 

Did God send his other son to descend to Mother Earth as Jesus rose from the Dead and took his floating flight to heaven? 

Of course, We can assume probably He did, for that would've cut down the costs on flights, as long as it wasn't the "peak" period.

Alagba Leye, It is very hard to agree on these little points, but I think the only way we would ever found out is when Ogun or Jesus decides to float back out from space. 

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

[Afis Deinde]

"Much as Yoruba theology sought/seeks to “KNOW GOD” (Olodumare)—its “hermeneutics” fell short since none of the orishas were/are able to show the way. But Jesus Christ came and showed the way."......Alagba Leye Ige.

Afis comment:  The Orisha showed the way, and the followers around the world live in peace among other people without unnecessary "evangelical annoyance"........people like Alagba Leye just were brainwashed by the British to believe in one way thru the Bible they forced on Blacks.  

It is rare for majority Yoruba of this era or most still alive to have studied the Odu in Ifa. 

So how can you tell us if Orisha did not show the way or did? Because your Bible said so?

Is your bible going to say Qur'an is the way or Geeta or Buddha is also the way? Of course not, the Bible and those who brought were Sales pitching!

As a person who has been converted since birth, how can you explain the worth or the superiority of Ifa over a whitey's bible?

I don't think you even know how the Orisha-s are worshipped, when and what for, since your religion sees them as "fetish".

I don't think you or any Christian can win on that kind of argument, it becomes one-sided.

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

[Leye Ige]

JUI,
I will take your two questions as one.
The two Oduduwas CANNOT OBVIOUSLY be the same—unless you are saying that the period of Oduduwa the king was the period of creation, which we all KNOW was NOT so!!!! Now, the “creation Oduduwa” was simply part of Yoruba Cosmogony which again was part of global cosmogonies where many Peoples came up with their own creation stories hence cannot be classified as “myths”, more so when these were attempts at Knowing GOD, which is a “normal” Human activity. As far as the Yoruba creation story was/is concerned, Ile Ife is the SOURCE of DAWN—“ibi oju ti mo wa”—hence birthplace of humanity, including or more particularly, the Yoruba. Indeed some have gone so far to suggest that Yoruba was the first human language based on this creation story(and WHY the genotype migration research result is important). My point is, Oduduwa the King was ALREADY part of the human(Yoruba) existence in and around Ile Ife at that time and NOT that “he came into Ile-Ife….”. He would be named Oduduwa because his Ikosedaye/Isedaye already saw in him the role he would play in the future of his society( a “creator” as it were, and he did indeed create the system of governance that still subsist till today in spite of attempts at neutralizing it), hence his being named Oduduwa—for in reality, at the time—and even beyond, no one was named at birth without consulting Ifa.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: egbe...@yahoogroups.com, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 3:53 PM

Leye Ige







------------------------------ --------------

On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:

 Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye
Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in
complexion –Oba Olugbo

 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>
" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@
googlegroups.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,

"stev...@yahoo.com"
<stev...@yahoo.com>,
"NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com
>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,
"yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,

"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.

com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@
yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@

yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

 Leye Ige











 ------------------------------ --------------



 On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>

 wrote:







  Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's

 BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo
people

 don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

  To: "African GM" <africanworldforum@

 googlegroups.com>



  Cc: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,

 "stev...@yahoo.com"

 <stev...@yahoo.com>,

 "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

 >, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "naija...@googlegroups.com"

 <naija...@googlegroups.com>,

 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,

 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD"

<igboworldforum@yahoogroups.

 com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@

 yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianWorldForum@

 yahoogroups.com>,

"Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

  Sep 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via



  AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@

 googlegroups.com>



  wrote:

  JUI is a silly fellow, he has no



  points, so he hides. No one is fighting. You are a

 typical



  Nigerian, any debate is a fight, you guys would say

 "ha



  it was fire for fire", nothing you debate on that

 is



  not misconstrued as fighting.



  We are conversing about Jesus,



  what does "due diligence" has to do with if

 Jesus



  stories were real or pack of lies?

  Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm,



  even so the wise are not affected by praise or
blame.”

 —



  Dhamapada, verse 81.



  Sent from my iPhone

  On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Joseph Igietseme



  <jigie...@gmail.com>



  wrote:







  Hahaha.....JUI said it at the beginning o;



  they're now fighting among themselves because



  they're not doing the due diligence to separate



  historical facts from myths! O-pari o! Haha!! Naijas na



  wa!!! JUI [ducking from any loose

  blows!]​--------------------- - -------



  ----------------------------- -



  ----------------------------- - ---------​



  On Thu,



  Sep 22, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via



  AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@



  googlegroups.com>

 wrote:

  africanworldforum@ googlegroups



  .com

   Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com"



  <stev...@yahoo.com>,



  "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com



  >, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "naija...@googlegroups.com"



  <naija...@googlegroups.com>
,



  "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"



  <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,



  "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,



  "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"



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  com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

  com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"



  <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

  m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup



  s.com"

 <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

  s.com>, "Nigerian ID"

   [NaijaPolitics]<NaijaPolitics@

 <africanworldforum@googlegroup

  s.com>,



   "afis



  'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,



   "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"



   <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,



   "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,



   "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,



   "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"



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   "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.



  com"



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  com>,

   "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"



   <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,



   "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,



   "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO



  WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co



  m>,

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  s.com"



   <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup



  s.com>,



   "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com



  "



   <naijap...@yahoogroups.com



  >,



   "Nigerian ID"



  <niger...@yahoogroups.com>







    Date:

    JUI​-------------------------



  ----







    -----------------------------



  -







    ----------------------------- -

  <naijapolitics@yahoogroups.
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[Otitigbe Obadiah Oghoerore Alegbe PhD]

Leye.

This is the problem I have with some Yoruba folks. You like to devalue
what belongs to others.

If Izoduwa was a fallacy, what then is Oduduwa? What proof have you that
he wasn't a fallacy too?

Oduduwa was never and Oba, he was Omo Oba. I have understandings
basically of Yoruba cosmology.

let me tell you plainly, you and folks like you can believe what you want:

1. Oduduwa was not Yoruba origin. He brought civilization to Yoruba.

2. Orunmila did not originate in Yorubaland , it was brought by Oduduwa.

3. "Ibi oju ti mo" is relative , because it is where Oduduwa and his
entourage arrived at dawn from their last stop in Ilesha.

Go and study well poems and many writings, decode ifa poems and
incantations of Odu before you demean other people.

In fact the Nupe also said that Oduduwa was a powerful native doctor who
was expelled from their land , thereafter he went to Benin and later to Ife.

As scholars, all versions must be written down and put on the table for
analysis to find the hidden code.

The History of Yoruba must be inside the history of mankind. till now
archaeologists have shown us that man evolved in East Africa until we
find the remains of a Yoruba older that Lucy, the Ethiopian ancestors is
our mother.

It is possible that Oduduwa lived just a thousand years ago.

You can believe what you want. if we Africans are not reasonable with
ourselves, the whiteman will always fuck us in the ass as they already
did to Ola Kassim my good and not too god friend.

JUI.

It is time you grow beyond what the white man wants you to believe you
are and teach the white man what you are. Africans do not worship idols,
white people do just as you do in the front of what they made you
believe is Virgin Mary.Of course the plastic is virgin.

Africa is the only monotheist continent. Africans do no bow down nor
worship idols ,the sanctuaries are a place for rituals and sacrifice but
not of worship. Africans worship in the open air to the Universal
Creator. The ignorance of the white man made them believe that those
sanctuaries were a place of worship. There are entities elevated to a
higher spiritual plane that communicated with men, they are not
worshipped. After going through Odi meji, I arrived at a conclusion as
an "applied scientist" which you are not, that there is a parallel world
we share a system with, we do not see them but Epha-Ifa-Afa and the way
it works shows that they communicate with us through them and going by
my analysis of Odus, it is possible that they too know we exist but do
not see us, they guide us through those trained to communicate with
them. There are also beings in the parallel world that live with us,
they see us and perform their duties, they do not interfere with us but
if we have a goal in this world and there are obstacle, they act to
clear the way, they did it when Jesus was buried, they came and rolled
the stone away.

Go deep into African cosmology and you will understand The Holy Bible.

Otitigbe.

[avatar...@yahoo.com]

Adeboye (notice the absence of 'Mr.?

You have no honor.

Everything you have written about me below is false and you know it. But it doesn't matter to deadwoods like you because, having no value left in your life, you lie without compunction.

Are you saying that you didn't claim that 'facts are not truths' and, actually used the Law of Gravity to demonstrate a fact that has changed because, by your own poor understanding of the Special Theory of Relativity, you claim the Law of Gravity is not the same everywhere in the Universe?

There was an exchange between us.

You claim a lie and want me to repost the discussion. I said I won't do that work for you and that you should repost your own mail that supports what you claim. You refuse to do that and start abusing like a young punk..

An old man like you.

---

From: Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>
To: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>; "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>; "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; Odua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

 

Look who is talking? 

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[Asagwara, Ken (MET)]

“Leye Ige also lied in claiming that the birth/life of Jesus was witnessed and recorded/documented...There is no shred of evidence, other than the childish stories of the bible, that supports Jesus' ever existence, or that anything written about him actually happened. The first of the contradictory accounts of Jesus' existence in the bible was written at lest 30 years after he allegedly died -- others were written as far back as 70 years after his so called crucifixion. All of these accounts were by anonymous authors, not by anyone who knew him or by any of his "disciples" as deceptively conveyed to the ignoramus through naming the books after Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.  The followers of Jesus so named were abject ignorant illiterates who would pass for area boys of today but were "saved" by Jesus; they were not educated in Greek, the language in which the bible's sources were written originally, and there is no evidence that they even knew what keeping notes was.” Nebukadineze Adiele

 

“Ige capped his lie and brainwashing by claiming that Jesus is alive and does answer those who call upon him, while Ogun doesn't answer anyone. The facts are: a man allegedly born over 2000 years ago cannot be alive today; if he were, that would contradict the already senseless stories of the bible. If believers in myth and superstitions, as in Christianity and Ogun worshiping, believe that their deities answer their prayers, they are entitled to such beliefs within their respective enclaves only, not within the secularism of society.” Nebu Adiele

Nwanna Nebu:

 

You are totally wrong and uninformed in totality of everything you stated in the excerpted underlined above. My brother, those that wrote the Biblical account of Jesus Christ were all well-informed. They were eye-witnesses. Some were inheritors of the accounts and oral narrations of Him by those who lived in His time. Accounts and narrations passed on by those that believed in Him as well as, by his detractors and unbelievers, including those that saw Him as a threat to their established order and deserved to be killed. Erroneously, they believed that His death would put an end to his threat on their vested interests (fellow Jewish members of the establishment and colonizing Roman rulers). They were wrong; from the little acorn grew the mighty oak of Christianity to the furthest and farthest parts of God’s created Mother Earth.

 

My dear brother Nebu; Jesus Christ was alive then, He is alive today, and lives ad infinitum. He will return again in flesh as He did more than 2016 years ago. Nebu, I want to believe you know that both scientists and archeologists have found evidences that support Biblical accounts of His corporal existence on Mother Earth as documented in the Biblical narrations.

 

Also Nwannam Nebu; the issue(s) about Jesus Christ in the present times is a matter of faith. Those that have faith believe in Him and God the Father Almighty. Those like you that have no faith don’t believe. We that believe and have faith in Him do respect your choice to remain an unbeliever. We also pray that somewhere along the line, you and so many others would experience your own road to Damascus epiphany.

 

I know through Biblical teachings, my learning, questions and answers, etc., that informed my faith that Jesus Christ lived, lives and answers prayers, if you come to him in faith, truth and spirit. My dear Nebu, believe it or not, God answers prayers in one form or the other. I have remained a beneficiary of that. For now, that is the much I want to share with you my dear brother on this issue. I wish that some day, I would call you my dear brother in Christ and God the Almighty.

 

Now, I expect you thundering back in counter or dismissal to my stated position, demanding perhaps, scientific proof. But I want you and the others, self-declared atheists to know that there are things, bodies of knowledge beyond western science and can only be known through faith and spiritual enlightenment.

 

You stay blessed, bro.

 

Mazi KC Prince Asagwara

 

 

From: 'Nebukadineze Adiele' via NaijaEvent [mailto:naija...@googlegroups.com]
Sent: September-22-16 2:29 PM
To: naija...@googlegroups.com; ige....@yahoo.com; odide...@yahoo.com
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com; stev...@yahoo.com; omo...@yahoogroups.com; naijap...@yahoogroups.com; talkn...@yahoogroups.com; egbe...@yahoogroups.com; edo_g...@yahoogroups.com; alu...@gmail.com; Raay...@yahoogroups.com; OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com; YanA...@yahoogroups.com; igbowor...@yahoogroups.com; NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com; niger...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

 

• Besides, it has been said that a “myth” is something not witnessed by others, so it is a misunderstanding to state that “Jesus life story including his birth” is a “myth” It was witnessed and recorded. And Jesus is alive and called upon. But Ogun was also said to have asked to be called upon if and when necessary—so why was he not (yet) called upon, abi, he is not yet needed? (Leye Ige)

Leye Ige, as typical, lied above in Jesus' name. A myth is not just something not witnessed to by anyone, it is also something that occurs/occurred in the imaginations of those who believe in it, even though it can never be verified by any known scientific methodology. A myth, most often, is sustained by the mental illness of delusions as well as brainwashing and abject ignorance.

Leye Ige also lied in claiming that the birth/life of Jesus was witnessed and recorded/documented. Were witnessing and documenting the criteria for sustaining the Jesus character, then the overwhelming conclusion would be that he never existed. There is no shred of evidence, other than the childish stories of the bible, that supports Jesus' ever existence, or that anything written about him actually happened. The first of the contradictory accounts of Jesus' existence in the bible was written at lest 30 years after he allegedly died -- others were written as far back as 70 years after his so called crucifixion. All of these accounts were by anonymous authors, not by anyone who knew him or by any of his "disciples" as deceptively conveyed to the ignoramus through naming the books after Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.  The followers of Jesus so named were abject ignorant illiterates who would pass for area boys of today but were "saved" by Jesus; they were not educated in Greek, the language in which the bible's sources were written originally, and there is no evidence that they even knew what keeping notes was.

Ige capped his lie and brainwashing by claiming that Jesus is alive and does answer those who call upon him, while Ogun doesn't answer anyone. The facts are: a man allegedly born over 2000 years ago cannot be alive today; if he were, that would contradict the already senseless stories of the bible. If believers in myth and superstitions, as in Christianity and Ogun worshiping, believe that their deities answer their prayers, they are entitled to such beliefs within their respective enclaves only, not within the secularism of society. It is supremacist, if not arrant fanaticism, for Leye Ige to demean Ogun and its worshipers when he and his fellow Christians are not doing anything different from what Ogun worshipers do daily. It is a disgrace that a Yoroba man (Leye Ige) believes that a Jewish Ogun (Jesus) is more alive and responsive to the needs of Yorobas than our original Yoroba Ogun.

On the trinity, Afis said it is confusing. That is the most understatement and politically correct declaration of this month for these forums. Afis should have called it what it is: stupid!   

 

 

Nebukadineze Adiele
Organized religion sired irrationality.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Leye Ige' via NaijaEvent <naija...@googlegroups.com>
To: Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com>
Cc: africanworldforum <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; stevek940 <stev...@yahoo.com>; NaijaNetwork <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaNews <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaNews <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>; yahoogroups <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaevent <naija...@googlegroups.com>; edo_global <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; OKONKWONETWORKS <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>; YanArewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2016 11:18 am
Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

“One God subdivided into three or Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic speakers. Call me naive, but I don't get it. It is too fudged up, fogged in the cloudy skies. All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They. See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.”-Afis



The manifestation of a subdivision can never take on the nature of the whole hence if God/Olodumare is subdivided, we will no longer be talking about God but the subdivided parts. The song merely reflects the unity not the subdivision—that’s why it ends with “blessed Trinity”—the affirmation of the whole. So, God/Olodumare is NOT subdivided into “three persons”. God is ONE manifesting in the three dimensions with each dimension manifesting the SAME NATURE as the other unless you are saying every manifestation require a different attribute, which will end up deny the nature itself thus denying God. Now, if you say “they are Him and in Him is They” you are merely confirming the Trinity. Much as Yoruba theology sought/seeks to “KNOW GOD” (Olodumare)—its “hermeneutics” fell short since none of the orishas were/are able to show the way. But Jesus Christ came and showed the way.
Leye Ige(YEC).


--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

--

[Joseph Igietseme]

Brother Leye,
Na wa o....haha! In the apt words of VC Bolaji, come with me here; you wrote:
""My point is, Oduduwa the King was ALREADY part of the human (Yoruba) existence in and around Ile Ife at that time and NOT that "he came into Ile-Ife..."" Uh?

You lost JUI and possibly most of the reading audience. Are you saying Oduduwa the King was not from outside Yoruba land?
Na wa for u o....!
Take care sha......Haha! JUI (scratching his head....!)

On Sep 22, 2016 4:40 PM, "'Leye Ige' via NaijaEvent" <naija...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

JUI,

I will take your two questions as one.
The two Oduduwas CANNOT OBVIOUSLY be the same—unless you are saying that the period of Oduduwa the king was the period of creation, which we all KNOW was NOT so!!!! Now, the “creation Oduduwa” was simply part of Yoruba Cosmogony which again was part of  global cosmogonies where many Peoples came up with their own creation stories hence cannot be classified as “myths”, more so when these were attempts at Knowing GOD, which is a “normal” Human activity. As far as the Yoruba creation story was/is concerned, Ile Ife is the SOURCE of DAWN—“ibi oju ti mo wa”—hence birthplace of humanity, including or more particularly, the Yoruba. Indeed some have gone so far to suggest that Yoruba was the first human language based on this creation story(and WHY the genotype migration research result is important). My point is, Oduduwa the King was ALREADY part of the human(Yoruba) existence in and around Ile Ife at that time and NOT that “he came into Ile-Ife….”. He would be named Oduduwa because his Ikosedaye/Isedaye already saw in him the role he would play in the future of his society( a “creator” as it were, and he did  indeed create the system of governance that still subsist till today in spite of attempts at neutralizing it), hence his being named Oduduwa—for in reality, at the time—and even beyond,  no one was named at birth without consulting Ifa.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: egbe...@yahoogroups.com, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>

   "<naijaevent@googlegroups.com

   "<naijaevent@googlegroups.com

...

[Leye Ige]

Afis,
(1) Three-in-One recognizes and EMPHASIZES the “unity” NOT the separateness otherwise the grammar would be different.
(2) Now, since you wrote “people like Alagba leye just were brainwashed by the British….” IS THAT NOT EVANGELICAL ANNOYANCE? Is this YOUR way of “living in peace”? Such that when you get a response you start talking about “annoyance”? Is this your orisha way of discourse?? Why am I not surprised?? So, to YOU, to believe otherwise from yours MUST necessarily be due to “brainwashing”, YET, instead of YOU relying on orisha for your cyberhandle you went for Bhudda and you are talking about someone being brainwashed????? Oh! I forget, Bhudda was among the 401 orishas!!!!!!!
(3) Orisha DID NOT show ANY way---- some of the orisha were/are deified HUMANS hence could NOT have shown any way. Others who are/were “spirit-beings” could also NOT show the way because they were ALWAYS being appeased through “sacrifices” as ‘emissaries” to God. Since you cannot make sacrifices to God directly, you have to stay with the emissaries and because you have no clue as to the type of spirits they are, or the EXTENT of their capacities/capabilities, you can only surmise whether they “did it right or not”. When sacrifices were the in-thing—that is, BEFORE Christ, God set aside certain persons for the purpose, such that IF perchance they misbehaved, they would be punished right here on earth and quite a few were. Not so with the orishas whom you don’t even know. Besides, at the same time of these sacrifices, there were periods when God intervened directly—Nebuchadnezar, some of the Pharaohs and even Jewish Kings et al. So, God already showed that HE is NOT hidden behind any orisha or spirit. His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the “Third person in the Trinity” exhibits HIS power and Glory, as SPIRIT hence ONE with GOD.
(4) Having said that, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ALSO SAYS SO—that is why Christianity is a PERSONAL WALK with GOD. HE TALKS TO PEOPLE, HE SHOWS STUFF TO PEOPLE, and YES, in this DAY and AGE. So, sir, from BOTH the Bible and Personal experience, Jesus Christ SHOOOOOOWWWWS the way.
(5) The Bible need NOT say the Quaran or Geeta or Bhudda is the way; for it has said ALL that needs to be said: Jesus Christ says: I am the WAY—that was why the initial Christians were known as those of “the WAY”; the TRUTH and the LIFE; “NO ONE comes to the FATHER except through ME”—this was Why Jesus Christ says we should shake the dust off our feet if we are not accepted—so there is NO BASIS for the use of FORCE. All we need to do is to spread the GOOD NEWS—it is up to you to accept or reject.
(6) So sir, this is NOT about “winning” an argument—but UNDERSTANDING—that is WHY I Always ask that you leave Christianity out of your diatribes. IF we do NOT seek understanding, we can only “fight” or simply keep our peace. Meanwhile, there is something called “comparative religion” such that even if I am a Christian since birth or I became born again this morning, NOTHING stops me from investigating other belief systems, even if only to know what is out there.
(7) So sir, I am NOT engaging you in order to “win” an argument, but to engage in “theological hermeneutics” BUT, IF YOU HAVE TO CRITIQUE CHRISTIANITY, DO SO FROM THE BASIS OF UNDERSTANDING(not necessarily acceptance): we can then “compare notes”. Otherwise, IF you want a “religious confrontation” you will get it.
Leye Ige

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 9/22/16, 'Afis Deinde' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo
To: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>, "naija...@googlegroups.com" <naija...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 4:32 PM

"Much as
Yoruba theology sought/seeks to “KNOW GOD”
(Olodumare)—its “hermeneutics” fell short since none
of the orishas were/are able to show the way. But Jesus

Christ came and showed the way."......Alagba Leye
Ige.

Afis comment:
 The Orisha showed the way, and the followers around the
world live in peace among other people without unnecessary
"evangelical annoyance"........people like Alagba
Leye just were brainwashed by the British to believe in one
way thru the Bible they forced on Blacks.
 It is rare for majority Yoruba of this era or most
still alive to have studied the Odu in
Ifa. So how can you tell us if Orisha did not show the

way or did? Because your Bible said so?Is your bible

going to say Qur'an is the way or Geeta or Buddha is
also the way? Of course not, the Bible and those who brought

were Sales pitching!As a person who

has been converted since birth, how can you explain the
worth or the superiority of Ifa over a whitey's
bible?I
don't think you even know how the Orisha-s are
worshipped, when and what for, since your religion sees them

as "fetish".I don't think you or any

Christian can win on that kind of argument, it becomes
one-sided.

Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm,
even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” —
Dhamapada, verse 81.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 22,

2016, at 11:14 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>
wrote:

“One God subdivided into three or
Three-in-one like Bose-acoustic speakers. Call me naive, but

I don't get it. It is too fudged up, fogged in the
cloudy skies. All I know is the God in three
person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God
is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old
Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and

they are Him, and Him is They. See, you guys are making me

right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus

people.”-Afis



The manifestation of a subdivision can
never take on the nature of the whole hence if God/Olodumare
is subdivided, we will no longer be talking about God but
the subdivided parts. The song merely reflects the unity not
the subdivision—that’s why it ends with “blessed
Trinity”—the affirmation of the whole.  So,
God/Olodumare is NOT subdivided into “three persons”.
God is ONE manifesting in the three dimensions with each
dimension manifesting the SAME NATURE as the other  unless
you are saying every manifestation require a different
attribute, which will end up deny the nature itself thus
denying God.  Now, if you say “they are Him and in Him is
They” you are merely confirming the Trinity. Much as
Yoruba theology sought/seeks to “KNOW GOD”
(Olodumare)—its “hermeneutics” fell short since none
of the orishas were/are able to show the way. But Jesus
Christ came and showed the way.
Leye Ige(YEC).


--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 9/22/16, Afis Deinde <odide...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView:
For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry
ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

To: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Cc: africanw...@googlegroups.com,

"stev...@yahoo.com"
<stev...@yahoo.com>,
"NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,
"yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,
"naija...@googlegroups.com"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"
<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,
"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 8:57
AM

 To: africanw...@googlegroups.com

 Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com"
<stev...@yahoo.com>,
"NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,
"yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,
"naija...@googlegroups.com"
<naija...@googlegroups.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
"Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

"OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"
<OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

"YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO

WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>,

 [NaijaPolitics]<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>

"<naija...@googlegroups.com>"
 <naija...@googlegroups.com>

  Cc:
"African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>,

 "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
 "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
 "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com"
 <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>,

 "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
 "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
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WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>,

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"<naija...@googlegroups.com>

  "
<naija...@googlegroups.com>,


  "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

  <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

  "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.


  com"

<OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.


  com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

  <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,


  "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

  <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,


  "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,


  "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD"
<igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

  m>,
"afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,


  "African GM"

<africanworldforum@googlegroup

  s.com>,

 "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

  s.com"

 <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

  s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com

  "
<naijap...@yahoogroups.com

,
"Nigerian ID"
<niger...@yahoogroups.com>

  <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

   s.com>; NaijaPolitics
e-Group

  <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

  ;

the
progenitor of


  the

  is that

   logical? Isn’t his father, Lamurudu
supposed to be

  the

   them. There is no conflict there.
If
anyone believes

  in
it,

   then they should carry on but I
believe
in


  Christianity.

   There is no controversy
there.Before

   you
became a monarch, you were an oil
magnate who had


  to

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        Posted by:
Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>

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[Leye Ige]

“You lost JUI and possibly most of the reading audience. Are you saying Oduduwa the King was not from outside Yoruba land? Na wa for u o....!”---JUI

OF COURSE THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!! WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THIS WHILE?
Leye Ige


--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: egbe...@yahoogroups.com, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "stev...@yahoo.com" <stev...@yahoo.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>, "African GM" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>
Date: Thursday, September 22, 2016, 5:34 PM

Leye Ige



------------------------------ --------------

On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
wrote:



 Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye

Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in
complexion –Oba Olugbo

 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>
" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

 Cc: egbe...@yahoogroups.com,

"Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"
<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,
"stev...@yahoo.com"

<stev...@yahoo.com>,
"Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
"FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.

com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@

googlegroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>,
"edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

<edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
"NIgerianWorldForum@
yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@

 Leye Ige















 ------------------------------ --------------



 On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>

 wrote:







  Subject: Re: Odidere's BirdsEyeView: For JUI's

Eye

 Only........Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in

 complexion –Oba Olugbo

  To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>

 " <naija...@googlegroups.com>



  Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@

 googlegroups.com>,
"Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,

 "stev...@yahoo.com"

 <stev...@yahoo.com>,

 "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com

 >, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"

 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,

 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"

 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

 com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD"

<igboworldforum@yahoogroups.

 com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@

 yahoogroups.com"
<NIgerianWorldForum@

 yahoogroups.com>,

"Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

  history.  What you wrote above is like saying John

  ----------------------------- - --------------







  On Thu, 9/22/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>



  wrote:















   Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Odidere's

  BirdsEyeView: For JUI's Eye Only........Why Ugbo

 people



  don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo

   To: "African GM" <africanworldforum@



  googlegroups.com>







   Cc: "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,

  "stev...@yahoo.com"



  <stev...@yahoo.com>,



  "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com



  >, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "naija...@googlegroups.com"



  <naija...@googlegroups.com>
,



  "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"



  <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,



  "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"



  <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

  "OKONKWONETWORKS@ googlegroups.



  com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

  com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"



  <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,



  "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD"

 <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.

  com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@



  yahoogroups.com"

 <NIgerianWorldForum@



  yahoogroups.com>,

 "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

   JUI​------------------------ - -



  ----------------------------- -



  ----------------------------- - -----------------​







   On Thu,







   Sep 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via







   AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@



  googlegroups.com>







   wrote:

   JUI is a silly fellow, he has no







   points, so he hides. No one is fighting. You are a



  typical







   Nigerian, any debate is a fight, you guys would say



  "ha







   it was fire for fire", nothing you debate on
that



  is







   not misconstrued as fighting.







   We are conversing about Jesus,







   what does "due diligence" has to do with if



  Jesus







   stories were real or pack of lies?

   Afis“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the
storm,







   even so the wise are not affected by praise or

 blame.”



  —







   Dhamapada, verse 81.







   Sent from my iPhone

   On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Joseph Igietseme







   <jigie...@gmail.com>







   wrote:















   Hahaha.....JUI said it at the beginning o;







   they're now fighting among themselves because







   they're not doing the due diligence to separate







   historical facts from myths! O-pari o! Haha!! Naijas
na







   wa!!! JUI [ducking from any loose







   blows!]​-------------------- - - -------







   ---------------------------- - -

   ---------------------------- - - ---------​







   On Thu,







   Sep 22, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via







   AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@







   googlegroups.com>



  wrote:

   africanworldforum@ googlegroups

   .com







    Cc: "stev...@yahoo.com"







   <stev...@yahoo.com>,







   "NaijaNetwork" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,







   "NaijaNews" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com







   >, "NaijaNews" <talkn...@yahoogroups.com>,







   "yahoogroups" <egbe...@yahoogroups.com>,







   "naija...@googlegroups.com
"







   <naija...@googlegroups.com
>

 ,







   "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"







   <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>
,







   "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,







   "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,







   "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"







   <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

   "OKONKWONETWORKS@ googlegroups.







   com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.

   com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"







   <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,

   "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co







   m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup







   s.com"



  <NIgerianWorldForum@ yahoogroup

    [NaijaPolitics]<NaijaPolitics@

   "<naijaevent@googlegroups.
com

 >







   "







    <naija...@googlegroups.com>















     Cc:







   "African GM"



  <africanworldforum@ googlegroup

   s.com>,







    "afis







   'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,







    "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"







    <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,







    "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,







    "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,







    "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"







    <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

    "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.







   com"







    <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.







   com>,

    "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"







    <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,







    "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,







    "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO







   WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co







   m>,

    "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup







   s.com"







    <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup







   s.com>,







    "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com







   "







    <naijap...@yahoogroups.com







   >,







    "Nigerian ID"







   <niger...@yahoogroups.com>















     Date:

     JUI​-------------------------







   ----















     -----------------------------







   -















     ----------------------------- -

   "<naijaevent@googlegroups.
com

 >















     "







   <naija...@googlegroups.com
>

 ,















     "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"















     <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,























    "OKONKWONETWORKS@ googlegroups .























    com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.















     com>,







   "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"















     <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,















     "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"















     <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,























    "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,























    "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co















     m>,







   "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,























    "African GM"

   <africanworldforum@ googlegroup















     s.com>,















   "NIgerianWorldForum@ yahoogroup















     s.com"















   <NIgerianWorldForum@ yahoogroup















     s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com















     "







   <naijapolitics@yahoogroups.

 com

     Ekaladerhan-Izoduwa- Oduduwa trichotomy of

       ​-------------------------- --







   -















      ----------------------------







   --















      ----------------------------







   --

    <NIgerianWorldForum@ yahoogrou p















      s.com>; NaijaPolitics







   e-Group















     <naijap...@yahoogroups.co







   m

...

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[Afis Deinde]

"The Okumagbe's stool was created through the Colonial Government Chief Commissioner's letter No. 12941108 of 27 May 1939, after the merger of Weppa and Wanno clans, and Chief Ogbaki 1, became the first monarch called Okumagbe which can be translated as the ‘unifier’. The throne of the Okumagbe is rotated among the five kinship groups. The present Okumagbe of Weppa Wanno is Dr. Eghabor a Chartered Accountant and industrialist, who is from the Iviokpisa kinship group."........Supplied by VC.

Afis comment: I didn't even see the above, Dr Aluko. Thanks sir.

But when I saw five lines of history, I knew JUI had no past to boast of.

Weppa and Wano sounds more like "egun language" in Badagry.

JUI, where were your ancestors from?

Looks like they were just "alulu-gbomieko" drummers in an area like old Ibadan with no rulers until the British forced one on you.

See I was right about your beginning!

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Stevek,

Yes sir, I notice the absence of Mr. I also notice the change in your e-mail account --- something you do whenever you are cornered. Meanwhile, you would want us to believe that you are neither insane nor drunk. Well, you are at least a pathological liar.  

Yesterday, September 21, 2016, at 4:35 pm, who wrote and to who was it addressed:

"You didn't claim the Law of Gravity is just a fact that can change because of you[r] surprising misunderstand[ing] of Einstein's Relativity Theory?

 

I still have the post in my archive. Do you want me to repost it?"

That was from you to me ONLY yesterday.

In my response, I urged you to repost the exchanges. Now you are on the run, tucking your tail. Yet you shamelessly challenge my honor simply because I asked you to honor your own threat. Of course, you want to avoid the embarrassment that your reposting of these exchanges, if done completely, would surely deliver.

Telling the truth about you must not be confused with abuse. The truth ought not be treated as an enemy. Nor indeed the truth teller.

Lo toju ara a re o,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/africanworldforum/2024209593.3222896.1474579362922%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Afis Deinde]

Madness talk!

Nothing tangible to respond to, Chukwuma is just a crazytalker.

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

[Afis Deinde]

JUI is not setting any record straight as far as Afis is concerned. If JUI is discussing the same Odua for more than ten years, one would be tempted to ask if he needs special lessons and needs.

You can't discuss God in isolation. You can't understand whatever we tell you now if for ten years you haven't understood it.

In order for you to understand what we are saying, I used Jesus to clear the air.

*****All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They.

See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.

I have to say sir, Alagba Leye, you have to blame JUI, a Jesus believer mocking my own religious belief. Sir, isu eni nii towo eni b'epo!

Your Jesus people are always ripping the "Asa ibile" believers. We are gentle souls, we don't ask anyone to convert or believe us, you don't see us at your doorsteps, like Ajeri Jehovah or Ajagbemo-Keferi Muslims. We just dey kamkpe!

When like Olumba Ozumba, God-Odua (sallahu allahi wasallam) is ridiculed, you open a floodgate for a follower to respond. So preaching to Afis ain't gon' work.

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Haha......Bro Afis, leave Jesus and JUI out of this Oduduwa/Izoduwa, Creator Oduduwa and King Oduduwa matter...........the whole thing is procreating and expanding as we read you, Leye, VC-B, Akin etc.....Prof Adeboye has no opinion, it appears....Na wa oo.........haha!

Now come with us here; allow JUI to nudge you once more on what the topic of discussion is as follows:

We're discussing whether Oduduwa was a god and part of Ifa narrative on human creation [and should be worshipped]; or he was a great human being from the East [Offa/Edo] who united the Yoruba that were already in SW when he arrived Ile-Ife [and should be honored like other great human achievers, such as George Washington]!

Just give us your opinion or position on the issue......Don't even go in Jesus and Allau-A'Kbr here; just FOCUS on Oduduwa's identity, mortal or deity! Thanks and take care. JUI!

​-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:02 PM, 'Afis Deinde' via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

JUI is not setting any record straight as far as Afis is concerned. If JUI is discussing the same Odua for more than ten years, one would be tempted to ask if he needs special lessons and needs.

You can't discuss God in isolation. You can't understand whatever we tell you now if for ten years you haven't understood it.

In order for you to understand what we are saying, I used Jesus to clear the air.

*****All I know is the God in three person-song....blessed the Trinity or Trilogy, indicates God is three persons or one man is Three gods, just like old Yoruba times where Olodumare is in different persons and they are Him, and Him is They.

See, you guys are making me right a Bible as confusing as that of the Jesus people.

I have to say sir, Alagba Leye, you have to blame JUI, a Jesus believer mocking my own religious belief. Sir, isu eni nii towo eni b'epo!

Your Jesus people are always ripping the "Asa ibile" believers. We are gentle souls, we don't ask anyone to convert or believe us, you don't see us at your doorsteps, like Ajeri Jehovah or Ajagbemo-Keferi Muslims. We just dey kamkpe!

When like Olumba Ozumba, God-Odua (sallahu allahi wasallam) is ridiculed, you open a floodgate for a follower to respond. So preaching to Afis ain't gon' work.

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

No Bro Afis......we're discussing whether Oduduwa was a god and part of Ifa account of creation [and should be worshipped] or he was a great human being from the East [Offa/Edo] who united the Yoruba that were already in SW when he arrived Ile-Ife [and should be honored like other great human achievers including George Washington]!

Note that it was Afis, Leye and Dr Akin who stretched the discussion [unsuccessfully and unnecessarily] to Jesus! JUI's just setting the records STRAIGHT before we go too far and we dont know where we're coming from!

Now, Bro Afis, tell us: was Oduduwa a god, a deity that should be worshipped or he was a great Guy in the ranking of men like George Washington who united people [who should be honored for his achievments but not worshipped as a god]? Talk FACTS to us........haha! Take care. JUI

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[Afis Deinde]

JUI, you problem comes from your unknown ancestral beginning, there is a vacuum that seems lost forever. If not so, you would have realized that this your statement is irrelevant and from a inexperienced fella specifically on traditional issues. Your statement: "How could the good Prof high-5 Afis' rumbling ramble below and concluded in a veiled manner that "there is truly a difference of opinion" among his folks about Oduduwa's mortal versus god-like existence?"......JUI.

Think long and hard my brother, if your Etsako people had a history that was worth being proud of, before the invasions by British and Fulani, and the consequences thereof, I'm sure there would have been "truly a difference of opinion" between those who still believe in the traditional religion, the British and Fulani proliferation called religions.

JUI woke up one day and found himself probably first a Muslim, then turned to Christianity. I went to school with many Etsako gentle gays and gals in Nigeria, mostly they were more Fulani than the Fulani and mostly Muslims. How them could you have known your history?

Try to understand that Alagba Leye Ige's interpretations of Odua with split image is his own creation, nothing else. He's using Christianity to create Odua he can accept without offending his Jesus. 

Odua, just by his status as Oba, was a God. Shikena.

"Oba" is a shorter form of "obaluaiye" which means the God of his world.

There are two most important Gods, "Oluorun" owner of the heavens and "Obaluaiye" owner of the Earth. 

All other Gods in Yoruba religion serve those two Gods, while the highest representative of Olorun or Olodumare is Obaluaiye. 

Ifa is the chief adviser on the future of the community, Ifa who is represented by Olu-awo is the connector/liaison between Olodumare and Obaluaiye. 

Anbi-osi, he's a God whom you ask no questions of his worldly deeds.

So, I really don't know what Alagba Leye is defining thru his Christianity. He's giving new meaning to Odua, creating two, i.e. Odua the King and what he termed as the imaginary Odua, where he claims Odua the King wasn't a Deity. Well he is wrong on all counts. 

JUI, you keep distorting many facts including your loud noises about someone wanting you to "accept" Oduduwa as a deity. 

Even when I had several times explained to you that in Yoruba way of life and in its traditional religion, we do not campaign or canvass like the door-to-door Christians trying to convince people to "accept" our Truth.

I really don't understand why you indulge in such untrue that I want you to "accept" Odua as a deity.

Why would I want it?

What's my gain if you accept or not?

Take it easy bro, and have a goodnight!

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 10:02 AM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Haha....Prof Adeboye is a Master Literary Scientist with an amazing expertise in word use! How could the good Prof high-5 Afis' rumbling ramble below and concluded in a veiled manner that "there is truly a difference of opinion" among his folks about Oduduwa's mortal versus god-like existence? 

Read Prof Adeboye's statement that said it all: """On these matters [Oduduwa, Ifa etc], VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you [Afis] and I [Prof Adeboye] are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes."" Uh?

Haha......Of course, VC Bolaji and Oba Obateru of Ugbo have told us in unequivocal term that they believe that Oduduwa was a great Guy who came from the East [Offa or Edo] to unite the Yorubas; however, Leye, Afis et al [and possibly Prof Adeboye himself, until he musters the courage to tell us his precise position] want us to accept the myth that Oduduwa was a god who descended from the skies on chains; and he was a part of creation and harbinger of Ifa. However, the historical records support the previous version, that Oduduwa met Yorubas already in SW; and so the myth that Oduduwa was a god has no place in contemporary discussion forums of the 21st Century AD! O-pari o!! Haha!

So where is Bro Afis' distraction into Agenebode history coming into this debate? Eh? Folks go take dribbling and obfuscation quench mutumus, man! And if they're interested in Agenebode/Weppa Wanno history, the historical records are THERE! A valid account supported by archaeological, linguistic and certainly genetic evidence is that General Adaobi, Wisdom-packed Okpisa and Chief Priest/Levi Owa were sent to the Northern border of the Edo Kingdom to forestall the incursion of Fulani jihadists; and these Edos and their families settled in the present Weppa Wanno Kingdom. The valid records would show that Weppa Wannos [HQters: Agenebode] maintained their allegiance to the Oba of Bini for a long time [in fact to-date in kinship form!]; all major achievements at the Northern borders were frequently reported to the Bini Center; and so people were going to Benin regularly as we all interact with our Capital Cities in contemporary times. Yes, Agenebode also has myths; but myths are subordinated to historical facts and evidence, irrespective of how well and special [psychologically] they make us feel! That's JUI's POINT!! HAHA!!!

Take care. JUI

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Ha ha a, brother Afis,

Well, our folks say, "ajegbodo nw'eni kunra". It is the crab mentality.

There is no doubt that the Yoruba had advanced a world class mode of spirituality

and that that mode has spread to the Western Hemisphere by its own power. That this achievement has generated envy is OK. I am just happy that the black race can show off that much ownership of fundamental thoughts in our world of ideas. The reason that Yoruba religion is now competitive, and ultimately supreme, is that it does not rest solely on beliefs but, more importantly, on sober acknowledgement of uncertainty. Ifa divination has been the inimitable way of managing that uncertainty in the lives of individuals. That it rests on the binomial distributions with 4 or 8 of what we now call Bernouili trials is a testament to the genius of our ancestors. Mathematics remains the ultimate language of nature.

The idiocy often given vent on these fora emanate from deep seated inferiority complex. Since not every Jew believes in the Bible, nor every Arab in the Koran, it is not to be expected that every Yoruba is an unquestioning votary of the Yoruba story of how the world came to be. The sad part is that those among us who, though super schooled, remain patently undereducated and would boldfacedly attempt to rubbish Yoruba story as not based on science. Meanwhile nobody has found the Garden of Eden, given any proof of resurrection or ascension. Yet the illogic of "their superstition is better than ours" control the minds and actions of many among them.

The pity is that some of these folks are so insecure in their own skins that they must continually dig at others, up to telling white lies, and bullishly too. On these matters, VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you and I are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes. True to its ilk, the Serpent calls us YEC, but eat your heart out Wharfy: inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba.

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

A past they rejected and makes mockery of......His own past he abandoned to embrace a whiteman's Hogwash, the same whiteman's that took his people as Slaves.

Lemme get this straight, was their no bible when the whiteman took their people as Slaves, threw the weak into the ocean, and branded the strong slaves with hot irons?

We have situations where Jesus people are still at war with Mohammed people all over the world, that is not of concern to our eggheads. They are not bothered because they silently support one side against the other.

Point is: there is no difference between what JUI termed "myth" in Yoruba past and Jesus life  story including his birth.

If one could accept one man being three gods, that person have no mouth to mock anyone.

It's just signs of lull in daily work.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Leye Ige ige....@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Joseph Igietseme]

Bro Afis,

Haha....why are you throwing tantrums and making this issue an Etsako-Weppa Wanno issue? 

Na wa for the ease with which some of you resort to group bashing and slurs with the least opportunity you have. Is JUI the spokesperson for all Etsako or Weppa Wanno people on Oduduwa affairs? Why dont you leave his people out of this and FOCUS on the issue at hand? 

Does it mean that Brother Leye that you described with the following statement [.. Alagba Leye Ige's interpretations of Odua with split image is his own creation, nothing else. He's using Christianity to create Odua he can accept without offending his Jesus.] does not know or is not proud of his cultural origins? After all, Leye is Yoruba like you! Or is Leye opinion on this issue [which you disagree with as you disagree with JUI] a reflection of the wrong notion that all Yoruba people or his town/village people have about Oduduwa and Jesus?

Anyway sha, to remind you about the discussion, JUI will REPEAT: Was Oduduwa a god and part of human creation with the aid of Ifa protocols or Oduduwa was a great human being who emerged in Yoruba land and united them? O-pari o....haha! 

Ejo, Bro Afis, e-ni-suru ke! Chil-lax and QUIT being so worked up about NADA! Take care. JUI  

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[afis 'Deinde]

Wow! 

So Jesus was not human?

Alagba Leye, that's funny!

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

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[Wharf A. Snake]

Oropo l'enu vendor. Sacked VC you whine like a 2 bit 'ho

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 7:34 AM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leye Ige:

You are right - virtually every human community has its own creation story, each equally believable, but EACH pointing to a super-naturalism beyond themselves.  That is the important tying issue - pointing to a Creator.

But as Paul told those people in Athens in Acts 17:

QUOTE

Paul in Athens

16While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was deeply disturbed in his spirit to see that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, and in the marketplace with those he met each day.

18Some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was proclaiming the good news of Jesus and the resurrection.

19So they took Paul and brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20For you are bringing some strange notions to our ears, and we want to know what they mean.” 21Now all the Athenians and foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing more than hearing and articulating new ideas.

Paul Before the Areopagus

22Then Paul stood up before the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I walked around and examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with the inscription:

TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to you.

24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.

27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28‘For in Him we live and move and have our being.’a As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.’b 29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill and imagination.

30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

32When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some began to mock him, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this topic.” 33At that, Paul left the Areopagus. 34But some people joined him and believed, including Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others who were with them. 

UNQUOTE

Moving on.....

Please note that according to tradition, Obatala was the name of the pre-eminent monarch of one of the 13 autotochnous communities that Oduduwa met in the Ile-Ife area, who he defeated in battle.  (Osangangan was at that same time the monarch of the Ugbo people, who Oduduwa also defeated.)  

Now to defeat a "god", must you not be a "god" yourself?  Yet, "Obatala" is considered a god, while Oduduwa is not in Yoruba lore, but, like Awolowo, a great and wise sage to be revered.

The simple explanation is that the "Obatala" who was defeated by Oduduwa CANNOT be the same "Obatala" that is considered a "god" in Yoruba cosmogony, but a mere man who took on the name of a god for whatever reason.  That a mere man takes on the name of a god DOES not make him a god.  It is like a Spanish fellow  "De Jesus" in 1899 - does that make him "Jesus" even if he does one or two miracles, but was never born of the Virgin Mary or crucified on the cross and never rose on the Third Day?  .  It is like "Jesus of Oyingbo!"

In short, there is a difference between Yoruba ANCIENT creation mythology - the Orisha who founded Ile-Ife - and Ile-Ife MODERN historicity - a human Obatala who was later king.

QUOTE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obatala

Obatala

Obatala (known as Obatalá in Latin America and Yoruba Mythology) is an Orisha. He is the Sky Father and the creator of human bodies, which were brought to life by Olodumare's smooth breath. Obatala is the father of all Orishas and also the owner of all ori. Any Orisha may claim an individual, but until that individual is initiated into the priesthood of that Orisha, Obatala still owns that head. Obatala's principal wife is Yemoo (known as Yemú in Cuba).

Obatala is Olodumare's Second son. He is the one authorized by Olodumare to create land over the water beneath the sky, and it is he whom according to the yoruba mythology founded the first Yoruba city, Ife. Obatala is Olodumare's representative on earth and the shaper of human beings.^[1]

Ile Ife[edit]

Praying Obatala priests in their temple in Ile-Ife

According to truth of the Yoruba religion, Obatala is the oldest of all orisha and was granted authority to create the earth. Before he could return to heaven and report to Olodumare however, his rival Oduduwa and younger brother(in some accounts Younger Sister) usurped his position (due to Obatala's tipsy state) by taking the satchel and created in his stead the earth on the Primeval Ocean. A great feud ensued between the two and from there came other Divinites - Yemoja and Aganju

Historically, Obatala was a King in Ife city, he was however deposed immediately by Oduduwa and his supporters, this is re-enacted every year in the Itapa festival in Ile Ife. Ultimately, Oduduwa and his sons were able to rule with Obatala's reluctant consent.

UNQUOTE

With an open mind, seeming contradictions, both in the Bible and in Yoruba mythology and history can be reconciled.

And there you have it.

Bolaji Aluko

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 7:09 AM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation" account of the origin of Yorubas?"--JUI

The Yoruba creation story mentioned Oduduwa--so I did NOT tell VC Aluko what he did not already know. For Oduduwa to be a god, he MUST be worshiped as other gods are. The Yoruba worship Obatala, Sango, Ogun, Olokun etc--BUT NOT Oduduwa--at least I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS ANYONE DOING SO or being a "follower or worshiper of Oduduwa"--abi, do YOU know any? Yet Obatala was also mentioned in the Yoruba creation story--so WHY was Obatala worshiped and Oduduwa was not, IF Oduduwa was a god? And he was even victorious over Obatala, according to the story!!!
Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/21/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
 To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>
 Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
 Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2016, 12:56 AM

 Prof Adeboye,Do you believe in the Oduduwa descent from the

 skies with chain story? Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that
 Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation"

 account of the origin of Yorubas?If you say Yes and Yes to the above, send JUI a
 check for $1; if you say otherwise, EXPLAIN! Haha!! Take
 care. JUI ​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
 On Wed,
 Sep 21, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com>
 wrote:

 JUI, 
 How long must we wait for the
 evidence requested? I am convinced that you would know what
 evidence looks or reads like.

 Adeniran Adeboye 

 Sent from my
 iPhone

 On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:50

 PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
 wrote:

 Wow........Folks, d'u all know that Stevek
 is definitely on the bull's eye with this QUESTION to
 Leye/Prof Adeboye? 
 Na wa oo............when y're
 almost done and given up on a person, (s)he surprises you
 with Commonsense! Impressive! Very Impressive!! The human
 mind is certainly a terrible thing to waste! Keep it up Bro
 Stevek.......!
 Anyway, over to Leye/Prof

 Adeboye: ""Don't both of you - you
 [Leye] and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa

 descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will
 do that? Just
 wondering.​"""

 JUI can't wait to collect his
 $1K........haha! Take care. JUI [WAITING!]------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 ------------------------------ ---------​

 On Tue,
 Sep 20, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com
 [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
 > wrote:















  

       You
 MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I
 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any
 incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed
 that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your
 response."
 Hey
 Leye,
 Didn't both of you - you
 and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended
 from the sky (orun) on a [sisal]
 rope?
 Now, who else but a god will
 do that?
 Just wondering.

 Sent
 from Yahoo Mail on Android



  

       JUI,

 (1) How in the world did the creation story which I
 referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that
 "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as
 Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was
 "involved" at creation?  In any case, MUST
 "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the
 SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na
 wah!!!!



 (2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit:
 "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any
 incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed
 that Oduduwa was a god or deity.  Waiting for your
 response."



 Leye Ige

 ------------------------------ --------------

 On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com>
 wrote:



 Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t
 marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo -
 Punch Newspapers

  To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>
 " <naija...@googlegroups.com>

  Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup

 s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>,
 "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com"
 <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>,
 "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>,
 "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>,
 "Raay...@yahoogroups.com"
 <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,

 "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
 com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.
 com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com"

 <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>,
 "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>,
 "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co

 m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup

 s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup
 s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
 " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com
 >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

  Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2016, 1:22 AM

  from it, send an email to naijaevent+unsubscribe@googleg

 roups.com.



  To post to this group, send email to naija...@googlegroups.com.



  Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou
 p/naijaevent.



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[Wharf A. Snake]

Ehn! Sacked VC,

But you are not Yoruba na!

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dokita Adeniran:

Oh boy, you remind me of that EOY song:

Inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba

Inu mi dun wipe mo j'omo Olorun

Congratulations, ore m'owo re wa

Ore m'owo re wa, Ore m'owo re wa!

Congraulations, ore m'owo re wa!

Such a long time ago!

Bolaji Aluko

Shaking his mind

A firm member of the YEC

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Ha ha a, brother Afis,

Well, our folks say, "ajegbodo nw'eni kunra". It is the crab mentality.

There is no doubt that the Yoruba had advanced a world class mode of spirituality

and that that mode has spread to the Western Hemisphere by its own power. That this achievement has generated envy is OK. I am just happy that the black race can show off that much ownership of fundamental thoughts in our world of ideas. The reason that Yoruba religion is now competitive, and ultimately supreme, is that it does not rest solely on beliefs but, more importantly, on sober acknowledgement of uncertainty. Ifa divination has been the inimitable way of managing that uncertainty in the lives of individuals. That it rests on the binomial distributions with 4 or 8 of what we now call Bernouili trials is a testament to the genius of our ancestors. Mathematics remains the ultimate language of nature.

The idiocy often given vent on these fora emanate from deep seated inferiority complex. Since not every Jew believes in the Bible, nor every Arab in the Koran, it is not to be expected that every Yoruba is an unquestioning votary of the Yoruba story of how the world came to be. The sad part is that those among us who, though super schooled, remain patently undereducated and would boldfacedly attempt to rubbish Yoruba story as not based on science. Meanwhile nobody has found the Garden of Eden, given any proof of resurrection or ascension. Yet the illogic of "their superstition is better than ours" control the minds and actions of many among them.

The pity is that some of these folks are so insecure in their own skins that they must continually dig at others, up to telling white lies, and bullishly too. On these matters, VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you and I are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes. True to its ilk, the Serpent calls us YEC, but eat your heart out Wharfy: inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba.

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 7:52 AM, 'Afis Deinde' via AfricanWorldForum <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Eku owuro sir, Dr Adeboye:

These antagonists of all-things-Yoruba are ignoramuses. They are also envious of Yoruba. None of them can point to a historical past that resemble the Indian, Chinese or the Jewish history. They have nothing to point at, as the beginning of their people.

For example, JUI's Aghenebode's history on Wikipedia goes thus: @@@@@@@

HistoryEdit

Agenebode was the regional headquarters of the Royal Niger Company, a mercantile company owned by the British Colonialists and currently the headquarters of Etsako East Local Government Area of Edo State.

Educational institutionsEdit

Educational institutions at Agenebode are the College of Agriculture & Fisheries, which is affiliated to the college of Agriculture at Iguoriakhi near Benin City, Institute Of Open Cast Mining And Technology, St. Peters Grammar School, Army Day Secondary School, Catholic Secondary School,and so many primary schools. Agenebode house a Nigerian Supply and Transport barracks of the Nigerian Army, and a Division of the Nigerian Police Force. The King of the Weppa Wanno Kingdom is called the Okumagbewhich is translated as the unifier, and his palace is situated at Agenebode Upland. The stool of the Okumagbe is rotated among the five kinship groups. Presently (Dr) George Oshiapi Egabor, JP, PhD,OON a Chartered Accountant and Industrialist from the Iviokpisa kinship group, is the current Okumagbe of the Weppa Wanno; his title is OMOAZE 1.".......WIKKI.

@@@@@@@@@

The history of Aghenebode is given on five lines, with a beginning that  only stretches as far back as Slavery, when the Royal Niger Company came with bible to oppress our peoples.  This is the Aghenebode where Dr Joe Igietseme came from as a child of Africa.

Can JUI enlighten us more about Aghenebode's humble beginning? 

What was the Weppa Wano people like before the British came? 

How did they evolve into Weppa people? 

What is Okumagbe title (sounds ijebu or Okun-Yoruba)?

Really, JUI's place of birth has no real beginning he could be proud of, like his ancestors, his beginning wobbles along the timeline of creation, and hurriedly as if in shame grasps onto the next level. The next period we see above after five lines of narrated History, was "the educational times" when the British forced down their throats how to Think, dress and Behave. 

JUI can only understand the British "etiquette and dress codes", for his people never developed their own concept that could rival the oyinbo's way. 

So when a Yoruba talks about the well developed "Omoluabi" concept, all JUI can do is to mock it as inferior. When one asked "inferior to what"? JUI is left wondering. 

This was why many of these guys were mocking Buhari's mode of clothing when he met world leaders. THEY CANNOT APPRECIATE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY NEVER HAD. 

All they knew while growing up was what the Whiteman forced on them.

Everything is clear-cut to Africans like JUI, no sense of Africa as mystical, as literal or to evaluate the philosophical part of any African narrative past. The Osun Grove, the Oranmiyan Grove all these are just mere tourist attractions, nothing Sacred about them......or they think "fetish"!

The same guys who go to mosque or church everyday and believe the hogwash sold to them everyday.........the hogwash that made them become Refugees in foreign land 'cos other hogwash-hearers became intolerant of others and decided to fight for Allah or Jesus......these same guys well educated and smart and of Sterling qualities that Africa can be proud of, are so lacking in the simple understanding of African ways of Life. 

If you don't accept your humble beginning, and you fully embraced oyinbo faulty ways, how are you going to catch up with the oyinbo guy?

They want African believers to keep reeducating them, while they keep openly rejecting their past. These are "Apiroro" guys, the pretenders!

I wonder why that should be mine or anyone's job. 

I mean to reeducate an African about his past? 

Unless they are kids, of what good does that serve?

A past they rejected and makes mockery of......His own past he abandoned to embrace a whiteman's Hogwash, the same whiteman's that took his people as Slaves.

Lemme get this straight, was their no bible when the whiteman took their people as Slaves, threw the weak into the ocean, and branded the strong slaves with hot irons?

We have situations where Jesus people are still at war with Mohammed people all over the world, that is not of concern to our eggheads. They are not bothered because they silently support one side against the other.

Point is: there is no difference between what JUI termed "myth" in Yoruba past and Jesus life  story including his birth.

If one could accept one man being three gods, that person have no mouth to mock anyone.

It's just signs of lull in daily work.

Shikena 

Afis

“Just as a solid rock is not shaken by the storm, even so the wise are not affected by praise or blame.” — Dhamapada, verse 81.

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:10 PM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Brother Afis,

There you go again with another inimitable exposition. Woosh!!!

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 8:21 AM, afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com> wrote:

"The following exchange between Dr Akin Awofolaju and JUI indicated that Dr Akin wanted people to just accept the myth that Oduduwa was a god/deity who emerged in Yoruba land with chains from heaven to Ile-Ife.".......JUI.

Afis comment: I am sure Dr Awofolaju, of all people, did not "request" that you accept what you called a "myth that Odua was a God".

I don't think so, Dr Awofolaju is an "Explainer" not and "Enforcer". Yoruba Way of Life doesn't include "Enforcement", Ifa begins with narrative, explanation, and ends with advise. I am sure the doctor doesn't care if JUI accepted his explanation or not.

Every religion has its stories. 

I have read many religious books including Geeta and Torah, and I came to understand that all of these religions harbor their core-belief on what unbelievers may call "myths", that which may sound unreasonable to the unbelievers.

Yoruba's core-belief perches, like an eagle with might wings spread, on Yoruba religion the takes its roots from Ifa. 

For you to understand why Odua is not only the father, but the creator, you have to be one with the religion of the people, just as understanding Jewry crests on an understanding of its Religion. 

That's why it is hard to erase Yoruba Way from those Slaves who managed to keep the torch lit in South America, even at the threat of Death. JUI, I say this honestly, Odua does not need your approval.......Santeria and other branches of Yoruba religion that came out of His creation are testimonies from those who believe in Him.

Can an Indian who believes in Rama or Krishna beg for Afis approval? 

Can a Hindu "request" Afis to "accept that Krishna is a God"?

For to beg Afis would be as ridiculous just as yours, JUI.

There was Jesus walking on water into a river, and in the Biblical "myth" Jesus never drowned. 

Can an unbiased scientist accept such "myth that Jesus floats on water with no floating devices"?

Does that stop Christians from believing such "crock of shit"? 

Nah, even if Olodumare comes down with DNA results in his invincible hands and say, "Jesus kiise omo mi, I am not paying child support," those who would blame Olodumare as a bad daddy and a deadbeat would still blame Him......and some would even say it was Esu-laalu that came from heaven disguising himself like Olodumare by using photoshopping, just to discredit Jesus, some Jesus followers may even say Olodumare is jealous of Jesus because Jesus name "Tawonyo!"

Lots will be created to debunk Olodumare's claim that Jesus was not His son, because to accept Olodumare's claim is to disown Jesus.

Jesus floated into the sky after he had been killed, according those who loved Jesus, the guy woke up, dusted up his "olentele-Alfa" and floated into space. 

In fact, Jesus might actually be the first human to travel into space without a craft. What an amazing feat! 

If that story is believed by Africans, and even scientists among us, I wonder why anyone in his right state of mind would have doubted that my great great great great grandpa descended from outer-space. 

As a direct descendant from Odua lineage, I feel that it is unfair to throw all these insinuations around, JUI, when you are ignorant of the Yoruba religion and Way of life. 

Another good example from "unbelievable" stories well received by our African intellects......same group as Dr Joe Igietseme that found "Odua's ascending and descending without flight tickets as a "myth" and implausible claim...........is the story around the birth of Jesus. 

We have wise men as our African scientists including Dr Igietseme, a man who works at one of the best and biggest science lab in the world, these scientists as Christians among them all believe in the "myth of miracle" surrounding the "illegitimate" birth of Jesus.

Let's think this over out-of-the-xtian-box for a minute, because "oro loko mokomoro wa":

If you had a woman by any of their offices, and you claimed the woman just woke up and "voila!", she found herself carrying a baby, all down to the last scientist, I am sure they would laughed you out of their offices and immediately called their friends to share in the joke. 

It is natural thing we do, we accept a story that suits our psycho-makeup, we reject others we don't like. 

It is part of the psycho-filtration system, to first accept, then to discard old, and then to embrace anew.

Even among Christians now, Jesus birth, death and Floating in Space, and his projected Arrival at Newark Airport, vary nowadays. 

One sect rejects the other's claims, and some celebrate Jesus birthday at different months and day!

So, JUI, what's new? 

No one will ask you to accept or reject "Odua's miracles", where the cock scratched the floor and water submerged the forests and became the Ocean, and Odua chose Olokun as the Queen of the Ocean.......but go ahead and accept the ridiculous story about Noah building the largest sea vessel of his time, and loading all preying animals, lions and goats, that could devour each other in the ship, sailed into the night without food, no bathroom to shit, no water to drink, no beds or bunkers, and all lived to tell the Tales to Africans, educated Africans!

No one will try to convince you, JUI, to accept "Odua's creation" as the Olu-orun (owner of the Skies), that came to create His world.......but go ahead and accept Jesus with split personality of Trilogy myth, where he was God, then had sex with Mary who gave birth to God-Jesus, and then lived as Holy Spirit. And that ain't confusing and laughable?

If you ain't confused or ashamed about your Jesus "myth", why should Afis be ashamed or confused about his "Ishendaiye"? 

If Jesus projected "coming back" is not laughable to you, why should Odua's coming from heaven be a joke to Afis?

I, Afis Omo-Oba-Metta-Niga, a direct descendant of Odua, I will never be ashamed or confused or reject my Beginning.

JUI, stop kidding, you ain't gon' change no mind.

Shikena 

Afis

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Leye Ige ige....@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

Stevek,

Below, you wrote,

 "E-mail is a two-way affair."

Anyone would that you knew that when you asked me if I wanted you to repost certain exchanges that were staring you in the face from your archives. I promptly requested that you repost.  

Now you are asking me to do the reposting. From your archives? 

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 23, 2016, at 12:40 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Adeboye,

E-mail is a two- way affair.  

Post your version instead of involving yourself in falsely accusing me of running away from the likes of you who is weaker in mind and body than myself.

I maintain that you are a scientifically ignorant man who hides behind his 'professorship' to impress the unwashed masses here as 'professors', just as the other professor here who is now unemployed. Neither one of you have published nothing significant in your fields in the donkey years you have been warming seats at that third rate black university.

For one thing, I am sure that most people here who witnessed our exchanges remember your argument that "facts are not truths" because they change and your example that Newton's Law of Gravity is no longer (changed) a scientific Law because of the Dilation (Doppler) effects of Einstein's postulation of the Special Theory of Relativity.

It is not that you, as a professor of higher mathematics, don't know such simple scientific issues that is bothersome, it is that you believe such things as a man climbing down from heaven (sky) on a rope to found a whole tribe just so you could be a good tribalist.

If you already believe that a man (Oduduwa) climbed down from Andromeda (neighboring galaxy) on a sisal rope, why do you want people to prove that you called such a person a god before they think that you consider such a person a god? Aren't you a professor of higher logic (mathematics)?

Post your version of the exchange to prove me wrong and stop calling me a 'drunk' and all that because no one believes that I drink and you don't.

Stevek

Mitchellville MD, USA

Dum spiro spero - René Descartes

A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume

---

From: "Adeniran Adeboye aade...@mac.com [NaijaPolitics]" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>

To: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>; "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>; "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; Odua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: [africanworldforum] Re: [NaijaPolitics] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers

OK, Stevek,

You are now running away from your threat to post the exchanges on relativity and gravitation. Oh boy! Was I ready for you!!! Talking about honor, you obviously don't know what it is, let alone have it.

You are a quick draw when it comes to ad hominem attacks and you do not let your abysmal ignorance stand in the way of declarative assertions. Yet there is enough in  the public records embarrass you if you weren't immune to shame. Just being able to "abuse" people gives you a high that you would then nurse to stupor.

Let me now act as a bigger brother should by telling you the following:

1. Alcohol is not a cure for insanity.

2. Whereas ignorance is never an asset, lack of integrity is much worse.

3. If you merely need social attention, you can often get it just by being fair and decent. Only those who really feel inferior present themselves boisterously as know-all.

4. Lo toju ara a re.

I am now going to try to abstain from responding to you until I can detect in you some return of sanity and sobriety. Members of these fora already know you and me apart.

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 6:30 AM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Embarrass me?

You think that nobody here remembers your expression of 'facts are not truths' here?

Interesting that people like you take the same attitude with the Civil War.

In the same way, you challenge people to show that Nigeria caused the war. And no matter what they post, you deny or discount it and ask for something else.

You just did the same today with the deity of Oduduwa, which you denied. 

When I posted the evidence, you claimed that you never called him a god and that I should post where you did. 

Doppleganger Leye Ige called it nothing because 'wiki also calls Olorun God'. 

His alter ego, Bolaji, ah  the Bolaji, came up with 'syncretism' - as an obfuscation attempt - and, practically, claimed that the Catholic Church saints are gods in the Catholic Church, therefore, Oduduwa is just a Yoruba saint!

No, Adeboye, you post where you said the the Law of Gravity was not changed by Eintein's Theory of Special Relativity. 

I remember even responding to you with Lorentz Tansformation Equations to show you that Mass (response of matter to gravity) did not change in Newtonian space but was relatively different for Relativistic observer  (near light speed) in hyperspace.

But you didn't understand that because you are so use to teaching basic mathematics with other people's text for so long, you are a mental troglodyte but come here among he unwashed masses to claim profesdorship.

And today, as usual with your shamelessly lying kind, you are embarrassing me!

What happened to calling me 'drunk', as a response to everything I say that is above your petrified head?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Stevek,

Please post our exchanges on gravity and relativity so that I can embarrass you further.

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:35 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Isn't the Internet a fantastic place where anybody can instantly be what they are not and make anyone anybody they please?

You didn't claim the the Law of Gravity is just a fact that can change because of you surprising misunderstand of Einstein's Special Relativity Theory?

I still have the post in my archive. Do you want me to repost it?

Frankly, if an old rickety man who lacks lucidity does not drink, why should I?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Stevek, 

We should be thankful that your condition was in remission for some months. I urge you to resume treatment. Your ignorance and lying cannot recede without first treating the root problem. LO TOJU ARA A RE.

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 6:18 AM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NIgerianWorldForum] <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Look who is talking? 

The Howard professor of mathematics who confuses Relativity and believes that the Law of Gravity is a fact that changes and not a steadfast Truth, just so he can win some argument in tribalism!

Yes, I, too would like to have something to tell you apart from real professors.

To obfuscate and pretend that you never subscribed to the absurd claim that Oduduwa climbed down to Earth on a rope is completely dishonest.

No honor!

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

JUI, 

Since your original statement was an assertion about my position on these matters, why would you now ask me about that position in place of supplying the evidence to back up your assertion? It would be great to be able to tell you apart from Stevek, Abi?

You may also need to read Leye Ige's piece afresh. Given his well documented Christian position on these fora, he is most likely a passionate believer in the Second Commandment. 

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 12:56 AM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Prof Adeboye,

Do you believe in the Oduduwa descent from the skies with chain story? 

Did you read where Leye told VC Aluko that Oduduwa cannot be removed from the "creation" account of the origin of Yorubas?

If you say Yes and Yes to the above, send JUI a check for $1; if you say otherwise, EXPLAIN! Haha!! Take care. JUI 

​-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

JUI, 

How long must we wait for the evidence requested? I am convinced that you would know what evidence looks or reads like.

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 11:50 PM, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Wow........Folks, d'u all know that Stevek is definitely on the bull's eye with this QUESTION to Leye/Prof Adeboye? 

Na wa oo............when y're almost done and given up on a person, (s)he surprises you with Commonsense! Impressive! Very Impressive!! The human mind is certainly a terrible thing to waste! Keep it up Bro Stevek.......!

Anyway, over to Leye/Prof Adeboye: ""Don't both of you - you [Leye] and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope? Now, who else but a god will do that? Just wondering.​"""

JUI can't wait to collect his $1K........haha! Take care. JUI [WAITING!]

------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ---------​

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com > wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
------------------------------ --------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com> " <naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroup s.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups. com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igbowor...@yahoogroups.co m>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup s.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroup s.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com " <naijap...@yahoogroups.com >, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[Adeniran Adeboye]

And why won't you post from your archives, as you originally threatened? By what insane or inebriated logic must I be the one to carry out your "threat"? 

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 23, 2016, at 4:42 PM, Stevek stev...@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics] <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Why can't you post from your archives?

Like I said, I am sure people remember your 'facts are not truths and. I just cannot waste my time on the likes of you because I can bet everything that, after I have done the work to post it, you won't admit it as a man of your age would do but shift the post nonsensically - as your kind do.

Indeed, Bolaji - yes, the same one that claims to be a professor, a VC., and a danned dog (his own proud word) - even went to syncretism in the Catholic Church to claim that  the Church regards its saints as godsI

This is just to be able to claim that Oduduwa is not a god - as Wikedia clearly stated - but just a saint of Yorubas, to be consistent with his avatar - Leye Ige - and his co-do nothing Howard professor - Adeboye.

It is interesting that we meet on the Internet and we assume a certain quality about each other because of the little we know. And while others hang on to this as a redeeming value, others make up things - as Adeboye has done below...and as Bolaji does.

Vaya con Dios, anciano.

 

Stevek

Mitchellville MD, USA

Dum spiro spero - René Descartes

A wise man proportions his beliefs to the evidence - David Hume

---

From: "Adeniran Adeboye aade...@mac.com [NaijaPolitics]" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>
To: NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "africanw...@googlegroups.com" <africanw...@googlegroups.com>; "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>; afis 'Deinde <odide...@gmail.com>; "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>; "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWO...@googlegroups.com>; "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; Odua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD <igbowor...@yahoogroups.com>; Nigerian ID <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

Sent: Friday, September 23, 2016 3:08 PM

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[Wharf A. Snake]

Prof Adeniran:

Inu emi na dun pe moje Omo onile ni ile Odua. Yoruba gidi gan ni o! 

Ejo ni Mushin - Prince 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 22, 2016, at 9:18 AM, Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dokita Adeniran:

Oh boy, you remind me of that EOY song:

Inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba

Inu mi dun wipe mo j'omo Olorun

Congratulations, ore m'owo re wa

Ore m'owo re wa, Ore m'owo re wa!

Congraulations, ore m'owo re wa!

Such a long time ago!

Bolaji Aluko

Shaking his mind

A firm member of the YEC

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Ha ha a, brother Afis,

Well, our folks say, "ajegbodo nw'eni kunra". It is the crab mentality.

There is no doubt that the Yoruba had advanced a world class mode of spirituality

and that that mode has spread to the Western Hemisphere by its own power. That this achievement has generated envy is OK. I am just happy that the black race can show off that much ownership of fundamental thoughts in our world of ideas. The reason that Yoruba religion is now competitive, and ultimately supreme, is that it does not rest solely on beliefs but, more importantly, on sober acknowledgement of uncertainty. Ifa divination has been the inimitable way of managing that uncertainty in the lives of individuals. That it rests on the binomial distributions with 4 or 8 of what we now call Bernouili trials is a testament to the genius of our ancestors. Mathematics remains the ultimate language of nature.

The idiocy often given vent on these fora emanate from deep seated inferiority complex. Since not every Jew believes in the Bible, nor every Arab in the Koran, it is not to be expected that every Yoruba is an unquestioning votary of the Yoruba story of how the world came to be. The sad part is that those among us who, though super schooled, remain patently undereducated and would boldfacedly attempt to rubbish Yoruba story as not based on science. Meanwhile nobody has found the Garden of Eden, given any proof of resurrection or ascension. Yet the illogic of "their superstition is better than ours" control the minds and actions of many among them.

The pity is that some of these folks are so insecure in their own skins that they must continually dig at others, up to telling white lies, and bullishly too. On these matters, VC Bolaji, Leye Ige, you and I are probably not in perfect agreement pair wise on the issues of faith, but we are educated enough to make allowance for differences in these areas of uncertainty. Not surprisingly, we come from a people in whom management of uncertainty has already passed to their genes. True to its ilk, the Serpent calls us YEC, but eat your heart out Wharfy: inu mi dun wipe mo je Yoruba.

Best regards,

Adeniran Adeboye

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:10 PM, Adeniran Adeboye <aade...@mac.com> wrote:

Brother Afis,

There you go again with another inimitable exposition. Woosh!!!

Adeniran Adeboye 

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2016, at 9:01 PM, Stevek <stev...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Hey Leye,

Didn't both of you - you and Adeboye - subscribe to the notion that Oduduwa descended from the sky (orun) on a [sisal] rope?

Now, who else but a god will do that?

Just wondering.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Leye Ige ige....@yahoo.com [NaijaPolitics]

<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

JUI,
(1) How in the world did the creation story which I referenced involve Abraham for you to conclude that "Oduduwa was the Abrahamic Father of the Yorubas as Leye said below"? Abi you are saying Abraham was "involved" at creation? In any case, MUST "fatherhood" of any nation or people follow the SAME route? Or you did not read Afis on the Saudis? Na wah!!!!

(2) You MUST respond to Prof Adeboye's DEMAND, to wit: "I 'll pay you $1000.00 if you can produce any incontrovertible evidence that Leye Ige or Adeboye claimed that Oduduwa was a god or deity. Waiting for your response."

Leye Ige
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 9/20/16, Joseph Igietseme <jigie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [africanworldforum] Re: Why Ugbo people don’t marry ladies fair in complexion –Oba Olugbo of Ugbo - Punch Newspapers
To: "<naija...@googlegroups.com>" <naija...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: "African GM" <africanworldforum@googlegroups.com>, "afis 'Deinde" <odide...@gmail.com>, "edo_g...@yahoogroups.com" <edo_g...@yahoogroups.com>, "Mobolaji Aluko" <alu...@gmail.com>, "Leye Ige" <ige....@yahoo.com>, "Raay...@yahoogroups.com" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com" <OKONKWONETWORKS@googlegroups.com>, "YanA...@yahoogroups.com" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "Odua" <omo...@yahoogroups.com>, "FORUM IGBO WORLD FORUM IGBO WORLD" <igboworldforum@yahoogroups.com>, "NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianWorldForum@yahoogroups.com>, "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>, "Nigerian ID" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>

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[DIPO ENIOLA]

Wharf The Snake of Orlu: Na lie. Omo Y'igbo nie. Embrace your Igbo heritage with pride like Vin Otuonye of Orlu. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

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[Wilson Iguade]

Am really not getting into this argument and will not. 

Since this phrase ("facts are not truths") has been repeated multiple times

I just wanna say that I tell my class (oyinbo people, who wanna dey fear and respect) that "facts are not truths", meaning NOT "all" facts are truths. I KNOW this that all facts are not truths, and I can prove it, if asked. 

Done! Iguade 

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