To Ogbuonyeiro & MsJoe #4 Ojukwu's Son Is The President Of Gabon

[Nebuka...@aol.com]

Ogbuonyeiro, nwanna:

I have just read a brilliant and persuasive piece by MsJoe on this subject matter. Although I disagree with some of her conclusions, her overall message is solid enough to infuse in one a reason to have a rethink on the Debe personality.

 

I disagree with her that Debe had the onus of proving that he is Ikemba's son (neither Igbo culture nor the law puts such burden on the child; it is always on the alleged father) but she provided a link in her piece which I followed and read eye popping expose on the man, Debe. If Debe is an impostor Ojukwu but Bianca was instrumental in Ikemba uncovering that, then she did what is expected of an ideal wife.

 

On account of MsJoe's piece and upon visiting those two links, I am suspending standing on anything I had written on this matter, especially over Debe and Bianca. If you did not see MsJoe's piece, seek it out but here is the link she provided:  http://debeojukwu.webs.com/

 

MsJoe, my dear Lady (don't worry, am not the murderous  Oscar Pistorious of South Africa who bored the world with his monotonous "my lady-ing of the judge, hehehe), if you are reading this, consider it a response to your piece. Your brilliance shone, as usual, in your persuasive piece. Some of your arguments are easily impeachable but the over all power of your entire piece makes the impeachable ones miniscule or insignificant in analytical infraction. Thanks for another excellent disquisition-like output of yours.

 

I am off again to being busy and being reasonably away from the forums, until about Christmas time.

 

Take care for now, everyone.     

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Revive Reasoning!

 

In a message dated 11/28/2014 8:55:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, africanw...@googlegroups.com writes:

Nebu nnaa,

We did not know Debe existed until Ikemba's passing.

Indeed at that time Debe or Sylvester got really busy going to different press houses, announcing his is the first living son of Ikemba.

The whole thing became ridiculous to some of us. I asked then, if he is the first living son of Ikemba, was there a first dead son? I mean, at a point I could not take it. I recall one Anambara chap, a friend along we all wondered who this Debe was. The guy blurted out....ma anyi amaro onye obu....but we don't know him. Which was absolutely correct. It was strange to us.

You could see the man was up to something, whatever it was. Trouble was brewing, and he was readying himself, putting himself in position to battle to win and to gain. Yes, while Debe was making rounds announcing himself, virtually from the outside, those of them in the inside, girded their loins, else this man from the outside comes and grabs everything.

Nebu, I am with you as far as owning your child whenever she/he comes in.

Folks, around NYC, I gat my eyes and ears open, but if anyone of you hear about a lady, see a lady who as much as hints her father is a Nigerian, please inquire deeper; if she was born in the early 80s, inquire deeper yet, make the announcement here of your finding. She may well be my daughter, and I want her now!So that is the way it ought to be. Take in your child, even if your wife is the devilish kind. She/he is your child, she/he comes first.

Do you know some bloody women come into a man's house and asks the man - "me and your children, who comes first?' That is the last day the bloody devil woman sees the inside of my house. Nne ya anwuo. Idiot. Imagine that. I do not know about other women, but Igbo women ask such questions of men with children that interested in them. It is crazy. Madness.

I have a cousin who impregnated her sister in-law in 1960 or thereabouts  in PH. This boy was a replica of my cousin, but the man feigned total ignorance of the boy, until just about 5 years ago. I held it against my cousin, and stated as much every opportunity I had.

I mean, this my cousin left for England leaving the boy behind through out the war, came back, married, had children with his present wife and really took his precious time to take this boy in in his 50s. Painful. Yet we were pleased somewhat that he fessed up to his responsibility, but is there making up for the boy all the years he wandered about fatherless? It is a sin to abandon a child.

But Nebu, as you insist, nothing Ikemba did alive or dead will minimize him. Ikemba was a thinking man, always. He could not have done a thing without thinking about it. Problem, is, in Anambara, property is king. Old saying which holds sway to date is....nna boy anwulugo....orapulu prot onne? It is all about property, unlike what you and I are in our part of Igbo land.

Love and lust for property equates Anambara to Yoruba. A dear friend of mine, a Lagosian, died in Lagos, traveling back and forth battling his siblings over his papa property. He had just had major heart surgery, he was not totally healed, and he took off to Nigeria to see his lawyers. Do not travel, I warned my friend. Barely days after his arrival in Nigeria, I got the news that he did not get up where he sat. He had just turned only 50.

People battle over property forgetting they may soon be gone, and property they will see no more. Ikemba is gone, the living may meelaa onwe ha....Ikemba is no more here. It is up to the living to respect themselves. Ikemba is no more with us, he left behind all dues he paid for us Igbo. That is it. Nothing minimizes the man. 

Ikemba paid all of his dues for himself and for a race. Igbo race. Nothing else matters.

Ogbuonyeiro

On Friday, November 28, 2014 6:56 AM, Nebukadineze via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Wharf,

I did not even know that you wrote the piece to which I responded -- it did neither bear the author's email address nor was signed. I take matters of this nature seriously because bringing a human being into this world and shaming the person through rejection or abandonment constitutes a violation of human right in my book. Now, be also serious as I go over some of your points.

 

• Here are the facts. Ikemba ndi Nnewi did not accept Debe as his son while he was alive. (The Snake)

 

The above is not a fact but if you insist that it is, cite me just one instance of Ikemba or Nnewi people having rejected Debe. Here is what Debe narrated and which no one has contradicted. (i) His grandmother, Ikemba's mother, gave him a piece of land in Nnewi. (ii) When Ikemba died, he, not Junior, not Bianca, or anyone else informed the people of Nnewi that his father was dead. (iii) With respect to Ikemba's death, Nnewi people dealt with him solely until Bianca and Peter Obi used the instrument of the government to remove him from all official participation in Ikemba's funeral and burial. (iv) If Igbo was still the Igbo of my grandfather's, such an abomination would never have been allowed stand.

 

The above are facts that can be googled within seconds and they contradict your claim in excerpt above.

 

• In fact you, an igbo man, should know that every community initiates children into community meetings when they come of age. In the case of Debe, the community told Ojukwu to produce Debe so he can be initiated. That request infuriated the Ikemba because he thought they overstepped their boundary because he had never told anyone that Debe was his son. (The Snake) 

 

 

Again, what you said above, if true, projects Ojukwu in bad light. A child is initiated into the village upon birth by the women of the community who sing and dance and are catered to. A male child joins all stages appropriate to his age but once an adult, he joins his age grade. But if a male child is born out of wedlock and raised outside of his father's village, what you said above applies. In that instance, the father of the child is not at liberty to react as you claimed that Ojukwu reacted. Only disreputable men deny their children.

 

Based on what is in the public domain, Ojukwu had never denied Debe until after his last marriage. Again, Debe used to visit him in Ivory Coast and Ojukwu kept tab on his progress while in exile. By Igbo culture and by decency, Ojukwu was supposed to inform his people that Debe was his son when his folks inquired, not get upset. In the Igbo of my grandfather, the people would have insisted on getting their answer or they would ostracize him. A child belongs to the village and if a male child is born out of wedlock, the father is not insulated from introducing the child to the village -- it's not a choice of his, it's a must because a child did not bring himself into this world -- unless the father is making an emphatic denial of fathering the child. Ojukwu could not suddenly make such an emphatic denial of Debe if he had been relating to him from childhood, the villagers would not accept but such denial without concrete evidence from him.

 

• When Ikemba died and Debe was making all that noise about been the first son one of the people he said supported his claim was his step-mother, Bianca. (The Snake)

 

 

I did not read Debe say that. What he said was that he and Bianca used to have a cordial relationship until not too long before Ikemba died.

 

• Yes I do know that some Igbo women can be uncharitable with step-children and other people's children, but it is of course not all Igbo women. Before we fry Bianca, we should be sure she is one of those types. (The Snake).

 

 

Now you are playing games. Nine out of ten Igbo women use all means possible to put their children ahead if their step children or other women's children. That is a peculiarity that warrants a generalization of such conduct within Igbo womanhood. I am not condemning it because nature made them that way and that must be why we, their children, are daring and proud -- our mothers having put us above all others.

 

With respect to Bianca, you are an educated man and must not feign ignorance of pointers. Debe has claimed that she came between him and his father. Junior has made a similar claim and was recently accused by Bianca of throwing her and her children out of the Ojukwu family's home in Nnewi. An Ojukwu's daughter was said to have not been on speaking terms with the Ikemba for over a decade because of Bianca. You cannot ignore all these pointers to give Bianca the clean slate you gave her without losing your credibility and intellectual seriousness.

 

• From everything I have read, Debe was hired by Ojukwu transport. He worked for the family's business which is an independent corporation and that was the entire relationship  (The Snake).  

 

 

If that was all that you read, then you did not read all that was written. He was a lawyer who was in the police (he cited one of the retired police IGs as his peer, to illustrate how far he could have gone in the police had he not left). His father, Ikemba, summoned him to take up managing some of the properties released to the family (not OTL, if am not mistaking). He made the blunder of not getting a retainer signed because it was family matter. Ikemba asked him to managed them because he is a lawyer and a family member -- there was no point hiring an outside lawyer when the family has a lawyer. You can see that you are wrong in restricting his relation to the family to property management only.

 

• You wrote that Ojukwu's children supported Debe: If they did why was Junior disputing Opara with him? Isn't Junior one of Ojukwu's children? (The Snake).  

 

I did not write something like that but if I gave you any impression that such was what I meant, let me clarify myself. I said that Debe has stated that his siblings have always recognized him as their elder brother. That does not automatically mean that they are supporting his law suit against OTL or his feud with Bianca. I am not aware that he and Junior are disputing Oparahood. Both of them agree that the Will was fraudulent but Junior, instead of being a man in fighting the Will as he publicly threatened, meekly accepted it through his acquiescence. By accepting the Will that he conceded was forged, he fraudulently usurped the Oparahood since the Will accorded him as such.

 

Based on what is available about Junior, I do no doubt that he is weak and slow, so it suits a conniving Bianca to have him as Ikemba's opara (first son). Debe is as fearless and as intellectual sharp as Ikemba and for that, he is a threat to Bianca's having her children being preeminent Ojukwu's heirs -- Junior does not pose such a threat. 

 

It was up to Ojukwu, not Debe, to demand a DNA test; Debe could not force it if Ojukwu did not want one. You write as if he showed up out of nowhere and claimed to be Ojukwu's son. His mother and Ojukwu had a sexual relationship at the time he could have been conceived. It could not be a coincident that a woman Ojukwu slept with bore a child who looks and acts like Ojukwu and whose age matches when that sexual encountered could result in a pregnancy. He had been Ojukwu's son long before Bianca knew of Ojukwu. Have you seen anyone, including Bianca, come out and contradict any of his claims, especially with respect to being Ojukwu's son? Has Ojukwu's Biafran ADC, who became one of his trusted aides after Biafra, not come out and supported Debe's claims?

 

So my dear brother, do not simplify or make light of this matter. If a young man shows up at my door and claims that his mother told him that I am his father, I will not play around it. If I slept with his mother at the time he could have been conceived, whether he looks like me or not, I am doing a DNA test. If he is my son and is older than my son to my wife, I will accord him his natural right of being my first son. That is what any decent man will do. Those of you who are projecting Ojukwu as having rejected his first son are demeaning Ojukwu without even knowing that's what you are doing. If he willfully and consciously denied his son, he ceases to be my hero. I can bet you that lots of Igbos will do similarly.

 

Take care.  

 

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Revive Reasoning!

 

In a message dated 11/27/2014 8:15:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, africanw...@googlegroups.com writes:

Nebu 

Facts are facts and I don't like to play around with them in serious matter. 

Here are the facts. Ikemba ndi Nnewi did not accept Debe as his son while he was alive. That is a fact. In fact you, an igbo man, should know that every community initiates children into community meetings when they come of age. In the case of Debe, the community told Ojukwu to produce Debe so he can be initiated. That request infuriated the Ikemba because he thought they overstepped their boundary because he had never told anyone that Debe was his son. 

When Ikemba died and Debe was making all that noise about been the first son one of the people he said supported his claim was his step-mother, Bianca. Yes I do know that some Igbo women can be uncharitable with step-children and other people's children, but it is of course not all Igbo women. Before we fry Bianca, we should be sure she is one of those types.

I don't see how my query diminishes the Ikemba. From everything I have read, Debe was hired by Ojukwu transport. He worked for the family's business which is an independent corporation and that was the entire relationship. 

You wrote that Ojukwu's children supported Debe: If they did why was Junior disputing Opara with him? Isn't Junior one of Ojukwu's children?

Finally if looks and intonation determines paternity the great Snake would have 200 children today out there. Do you know how many times poeple have thought I looked like someone from their past? Nebu there is science and there is a test to determine paternity. If Debe is serious he should go ahead and take that test and stop dribbling people. I am not interested in looks and manner of speaking. I am interested in science and scientific findings. 

Concluding no one can say what the Ikemba told Debe and as a mannered man, the Ikemba not wanting to bring shame to the young man might have warned him off in life only for the young to run out on his death to wax lies. Once again if Debe is Ikemba's son he can prove it without much saliva wasted by doing a DNA test. 

By the way if my paternity is in doubt I will do the DNA test too.

WS - A revered prince of Mushin.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 27, 2014, at 3:39 AM, Nebukadineze via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Where did you get this bizarre idea that Debe being Ojukwu's son is even doubtful, not to talk of Ojukwu never having accepted him as his son? I have watched Debe speak and nobody but a different version of Odumegwu Ojukwu speaks through him. He looks like Ojukwu and those who knew of him as a child (like Gowon) have testified that he is Ojukwu's son.

 

Debe has chronicled his relationship with his father, his relationship with his grandmother (Ojukwu's mother), and his relationship with the people of Ojukwu's village in Nnewi, and how he periodically traveled to Ivory Coast to visit his father when he was in exile. Equally, he has indicated that Emeka II and his siblings accord him his position as their brother. But for the will, which Ojukwu could have framed under duress or under an infirm mind, I do not see how any sensible person can discard all these overwhelming factors to question that Debe is a son of Ojukwu's.

 

Debe has indicated that his relationship with his father began to sour after the Ikemba married Bianca. Other children of Ojukwu's have said similarly and knowing Igbo women's devious territoriality and disdain for step children, especially smart step children, no sensible person should doubt this claim. In putting her brood on the pinnacle of Ojukwu's scions, I will not doubt that Bianca caused a rift between Ojukwu and his other children, especially Debe Ojukwu who is a powerful character in contrast to the languid Junior.

 

People should be careful with their utterances. It is boorish of anyone, other than Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu, to ask Debe for a DNA test. If you can ask him for a DNA test to prove that he is Ojukwu's son, then he or anyone can ask you for a DNA test to prove that you are your father's son.  

 

I have said this before and I will repeat it now. For not mentioning Debe in his will, I am giving the Ikemba the benefit of the doubt -- that the will was manipulated by Bianca. But if there is a conclusive evidence that Ojukwu willfully and in clear mind disowned his first son, he ceases to be my hero from that moment. I cannot respect any person who will do something that cruel to another human being whom he brought into this world.  

 

Before repeating this denial of Debe as Ojukwu's son, you should be cognizant of how negatively it portrays the Ikemba. If he doubted that Debe was his son, he had a whole lifetime to clarify it. Igbo culture expected that of him and if he consciously failed to live up to that expectation, one of its consequences is that he (Ojukwu) becomes diminished in Igbo land. This is what some of you, including those who allegedly altered his will, do not put into consideration before making your wild utterances. This type of statement is as demeaning of Ojukwu as the statements of those who ask Bianca for DNA test to prove that her children are Ojukwu's or ask her for evidence of marriage to Ojukwu.

 

It amazes me as to how people can wilfully choose the most negative story to propagate, even though common sense and available facts impugn such story.

 

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Revive Reasoning!

 

In a message dated 11/26/2014 12:49:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, africanw...@googlegroups.com writes:

Did Ojukwu ever accept Debe as his son?

If not has Debe done the DNA test as the world requested of him?

Until then let's be careful with Debe as Ikemba's son.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 26, 2014, at 9:09 AM, Rose Amadi <ramadi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Folks, this is nothing but an amalgamation of fictions and lies  to suit one's curiosity. The article fails to chronicle the birth of Ali Bongo and relate it to the presence of Ikemba in Gabon. Ojukwu fled to Ivory Coast in the early 70s and  could only have visited Gabon between 1968 through 1970. Are we insinuating that Ali Bongo must have been born and adopted during the Biafran crises? Absolutely nonsensical, and frivolously unscientific.

Resemblance does not cut it, or prove parental linkage but with DNA test only. I have met many African Americans here in US, that look like home folks in Nigeria. Debe Ojukwu has Ikemba's DNA strains, and we can match these with Ali Bango's to either verify or nullify these propositions. Amadi (USA/Aruba)

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Okwukwe Ibiam <o.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

There is no resemblance. None. Look at all Ojukwu's children, they all find a way to look like him. From Debe, ikemba Jnr. , to the Bianca kids. They all find a way to look alike.
Not so with this kid. Maybe he was an adopted Igbo secondary to the war, true. But, Ojukwu's son? Raincheck.

However, I'm intrigued by Patience Nkama. She sounds like a lady from my neck of the woods. Jookwa-o-o-o 

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:26 AM, Nebukadineze via AfricanWorldForum <africanw...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Folks,

I am a Congolese affairs' buff because of my love for their music. Once in a while, I surf through web sites that discuss matters related to Congo. A few minutes ago, I happened onto this one (see link below). On this topic, some African leaders of doubtful parentage or ethnicity were profiled and bingo, Ali Bongo was said to have been sired by the great Ikemba of Nnewi.

 

I concede that the Gabonese president is a carbon copy of Debe Ojukwu, Ikemba's first son. Read the scoop below and view the pictures -- his resemblance to Ojukwu is doubtless. In the second picture, his image is sandwiched between Ikemba and Omar Bongo. He has no resemblance to Omar Bongo but he looks exactly like Debe Ojukwu -- Ikemba's first son.

 

By the way, Gabon was one of Biafra's benefactors and thousands of Biafran children were evacuated to Gabon in order to save them (from dying) of Awo-instituted starvation of the children of Biafra. 

 

Here is the story and the links are at the bottom:

 

Gabonese believe that Ali Ben Bongo, ABO for short, is the adopted child of Omar Bongo and Josephine Nkama, who become Patience Dabany after her divorce. Officially, the former First Lady of Gabon had [gave birth to] the current president when she was only 15 years old in 1959. But according to radiotrottoir Ali Bongo [is] Ibo from a Catholic family of the former province of Nigerian Biafra. He was adopted by the Bongos at the request of Jacques Foccart and Maurice Delaunay then ambassador of France in Gabon. He would be the son of Emeka Odjukwu, the leader of Biafra who he looks like. They have the same morphology, the same nose, the same cheeks, the same build, the same type of hair and the same receding hairline.

Pierre Péan made revelations in his book "New African affairs: Lies and looting in Gabon." The French investigative journalist affirms the proven sterility Josephine Nkama, talks about fake degrees of Ali Bongo, his Biafran origins and assassinations he sponsored. For purposes of the 2009 presidential elections, Ali had brandished a birth certificate issued in Libreville by the mayor of a borough that is his uncle, while in all likelihood, he was born in Brazzaville in 1959.

The opponent Luc Bengone -Nsi had even appealed to the Constitutional courts for a ruling on the legitimacy of the nomination of Ali, whose origins are dubious. Like Joseph Kabila, Ali Bongo is regarded as an impostor by much of the population that challenges his Gabonite.

The revelations on this web site are extraordinary, the most shocking being Kamuzu Banda, the once life president of Malawi, having been an African American named Richard Armstrong who impersonated a Malawian Kamuzu Banda, a student who died in the US after a brief illness  Incredible!

These things are written in French, so open the web site with Google Chrome (browser) and use its language translation facility.   

http://ahp.li/m/2/f7967e97d6fd057f05f2.jpg

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/0/93/15/04/20141120/ob_7a8a94_ali-bongo.JPG

  http://www.mbokamosika.com/2014/11/chefs-d-etat-africains-aux-origines-douteuses.html              

Nebukadineze Adiele
Reject Religion; Revive Reasoning!

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[Ezeana Igirigi Achusim]

Only God and the gods know who is who and who is by whom. 

And I am

Ezeana Igirigi Achusim

Odi-Isaa

Nwa Dim Orioha 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Emenike C.]

Ebe obula nwa siri yo uwa, ya hiri. onye anwuna, onye efula. Ojukwu or no Ojukwu, onye biri ma ibe ya birikwa. But if Debe failed the genetic test, so let him search for his pants elsewhere. He doesn't have to be an Ojukwu to live a good life here on earth. Ojukwu's blood is not more precious than any other. And we should not agree that he failed the paternity test untill we see evidence. Whether Ojukwu married his mother properly or if Debe lived with Ojukwu, that is not the issue here. Once the spermatozoa of a man fertilizes the egg of a woman and the child is born, the man automatically becomes the biological father of the child and bears both legal and economic responsibilities to the child regardless of formal marriage to the mother. Exclusion from the will of the father becomes an infringement on the rights of the child and the child can enforce relevant rights in court. But the child must pass the genetic test to have and enforce such rights.

Emenike

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